July 6, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of iChronic, we chat about how our bodies seem to store trauma in them. How this can exacerbate chronic health issues and it can also be overwhelming to deal with it. We chat about different ways to release the trauma like EMDR. Our bodies are fascinating... and frustrating.
Thanks so much for listening xxx
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
It's chronic time. It's Manti and Brook wevio today.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, hey, getting a little having a little experiment there
with the the singing today.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Always you never know what's coming out.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Everyone, it is Brook and it is Monty and this
is your iconic podcast all about chronic health issues. I
have chronic fatigue, chronic migraines, pots and casts.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You you got lots of ship, lots of shit. I'm
just going to stick with MS for now. Yeah, yeah,
that's it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, fair enough. I mean, MS feels like I know
we shouldn't compare baggage, but I feel like MS. Trump's
a lot of shit.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You know, it doesn't at all, It honestly does not.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I think that is one of the reasons. Also why
we do this podcast is because everyone listening, or if
you're listening, because you've got a family member with chronic
health issues. I think that is one thing we tend
to do, is compare who's got what and who's you know,
I don't I'm not as bad as her, or you know,
I've got it worse than her. I think this podcast
(01:14):
is we've all got our own shit. It's all different,
and I think comparing is sometimes where the worst. It's
the worst because sometimes when I'm complaining, in the back
of my head, I'm like, but books called fucking ms,
why are you winging? I think it's a relative to
our world as well, you know what's going on in
our lives. So whatever you've got going on, you're validated.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Here, yes, yes, safe space here. So Monty, I've just
finished listening to this really good podcast. It's not new,
it's called My Sister the Murderer. Have you listened to this?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
How much do you love a true crime podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Mate? It's all I listen to. I'm obsessed, like I
listened to so many. I just love it. I can't
get enough.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Do you reckon? Because the situations in those darker than
your real life, Like it's the it just takes you
away from your reality of darkness into someone else's darkness.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I don't think so, because I've always loved that, Like
I've always loved those types of like docos and podcasts.
So I don't think so. I just genuinely love it.
I think maybe it's just such escapism, like it's just
so yeah, anything you could possibly imagine, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, I used to love watching like Inside America's hardest prisons.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I just because it's so different from your world. I
was completely fascinated. And I would try and get Sam
to watch with me sometimes and he's like, there's just
no way, like to him watching something like that's how
he's literal worst nightmare or worst fear he's ending up
in jail.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Like it's just but Sam would just never end up
in jail.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Out of anyone in the world, he would never. But
he's like, it's literally my greatest fear, like my.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Because literally Sam, your partner and James mine, Like they're
the two people who would least likely ever end up
in jail.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Oh, no one follows a rule more than Sam. So
it's like unless you yeah, just so straighty one. Even
like I'll be like, just pull over here so I
can run into the shop. I'll get back out, and
he would have fucking driven around the block so he
doesn't even fall up a slight bit of traffic or anything.
It's such a rule following game.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And I'll say to James, just to a U tune here, No, no, no,
I have to wait. Wait. I'm like, oh my god,
do it blondy Jesus, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's mainly the car that drives me blonky anyway, Yeah,
what was it called.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yes, it's called My Sister the Murderer. Also, I should
mention that I posted on our Instagram page that I've
been obsessed with Blink another podcast. If you haven't listened
to that, you should. It's new and there's a new
episode that drops every week. But it's amazing. And that's
about a guy who has this really rare condition and
he's in a coma and everybody thinks that he can't
(04:00):
hear what's going on, but he can. And so for
years he's in hospital and in like all these different
palliative care homes and no one knows that he can hear,
and his wife starts doing all this crazy stuff and
he can hear everything.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It is.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's a true story, and he's telling he's telling it
with the journalists. It's so good. It's really so.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Then he obviously comes out of it where he can
talk and everything.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, and now he does like these motivational talks and
things like that. But it's really cool. Yeah, it's really yeah,
really good. And then the other one that yeah, is
My Sister the Murderer, and it's not new but I've
just finished it and it's so like unbelievable, And it's
about this. I think the guys Ryan, Ryan's his name,
and his sister murdered their grandfather.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Oh, it's just and she murdered him sounds fun.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Oh yeah, she murdered him for money because she knew
that he had money stashed in the house and she
thought that he had one hundred grands stashed in this shed,
so she murdered him. And then there was no money in.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
The shed, so she just cooled grabs for no reason.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
For nothing, And the whole thing is just unbelievable. Like,
I think it was a really big deal at the time.
Her name, the murderer is Brittany Dwyer. I think it
was a big deal at the time. And her mom
comes on, So Ryan's mother, Brittany's mother comes on and
talks about how it was for her and just like
how it has affected her whole life, and you know,
all the questions you would ask yourself, like what did
(05:31):
I do wrong that my daughter murdered her father?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, because she's your daughter and your father are both gone.
I also like, straight away, go if there's one hundred
grand hiding in the shed instead of killing him, Why
didn't you just like do a robbery as opposed to
kill the poor guy.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Apparently she tried to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Okay, when she got him on the second attempt. When
I was growing up, my nan used to live in
a unit by herself, and she used to hide her
money in the free So many.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
People do that. They probably still do. A lot of
people do that.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I reckon that generation is dying out, so there's not
many people now that are like, oh, that's a good
idea to hide your money in a freezer. But maybe
because it's now so not done that it's a clever
thing to hide it in there, So then robbers wouldn't
check your freezer anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I don't know. Maybe I don't know. I thought the
freezers like under the mattress, like surely no one does
it anymore, But yeah, probably do. They probably do.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
But I used to remember as a kid just loving
touching the crispy cold notes, like it was always such
a novelty to get an icy pole, and then.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It'd be like, oh, man, did you ever steal some.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
No, I never stole from her. I did my par
though on so that was now on dad's side, and
then my par on my mom's side, who is just
so beautiful. He used to have a jar full of
coins and I would steal from the coin jar. I
used to have this little purse and I used to
love the feeling of this purse being full of coin
(07:00):
and having the freedom to go to the milk bar.
And I remember my mum one day's like, where'd you
get all these coins from? And I had to say,
I took them from PA's jar, and she was like,
You're gotta tell Pa, And I just felt sick. Did
you tast the last time I stole from a family member?
I think I did. I think I worded it in
(07:20):
a way like par, I've just borrowed a little bit
of money from there, like you want a kid who
gives a kids are taking coins? But no, no, it
got a bit too this this little purse was always fat,
and Mums was very sus on it too funny.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And tell me you had some kind of massage this week.
But I he mentioned it in a text, but I
can't understand. I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, so I'm going for my second one. But I
had something called a buckle or boogle massage. So boogle's
inside your mouth. It's like a part of your cheek
or your mowlers or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh yeah, it's one of those jaw massages where they
get in your mouth.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes, they get run and some doos do your mouth like,
you know, push on parts of your mouth when they're
doing your you know, neck cracks and stuff like that.
I've had a bit of inner mouthwork done before, but
this massage is like she puts on gloves and gets
so into your cheek muscles all around your cheeks. Yeah,
(08:22):
because she'll push really hard to like reduce all of
the pressure in your mouth. So it's you think, like
so many of us grind our teeth or clench my
jaw a lot. Like sometimes when I get up during
the middle of that, I go to the toilet. I'll
sit on there. I'm like, oh my god, your jaw
is clam like just so full shut.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, a lot of people hold all their attension in
their jaw totally, which is where I do my neck
and my jaw.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So you lay down and she gives you this the
most epic head and face massage. Like, is there anything
better than a head message?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No? I love a head messag. Do so badly, so badly.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So much so this was all head and face and
then only ten to fifteen minutes of it was internal.
Actual book will work. So they try to make it
pleasant for you, and she's like, look, this is going
to be intense. The more you get it done, it
will relieve a lot of tension. I left feeling a
million bucks. Oh wow, I didn't cure a thing. I
(09:25):
don't think it's necessarily I'm just trying to do these
things for my nervous system. And I'm like, oh, it
releases a bit of tension in the draw and it's
an hour of you know, this hour of helping my
nervous system. Then it was phenomenal. I highly recommend them again,
one of those treatments that are not cheap. But I'm
just going to try and do it a little bit
(09:46):
more regularly. But Sam and I also went and got
a massage together the other day.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
All right, romantic. Yeah, it was cute.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
We went to different places. We couldn't get in at
the same time, but we drove together. I dropped him off,
and of course I booked myself in the better place.
I'm like, oh, couldn't get in the same place. So
I just dropped him off. He gets out and he said, yeah,
that was really good. It was quite firm. But he said,
like they He said, when I went into the room
and put my face down, there was one woman there,
and he said, then when I woke up, it was
(10:14):
a different woman. They changed out mid massage, and.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
He had real idea, that's really weird. What did one
woman just go, oh, I want to deal with this guy.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You know, she had maybe a lunch break or something.
But he said, it was hands down, one woman doing it.
I didn't feel any difference in pressure or style. But
I woke up and a completely different person was finishing it.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Wow, Well, do you know what I think? I think
i'd give him an A for consistency because that's pretty
impressive if you can't tell the difference.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So I was like, how could you not tell? You
tell things just knew that were different. I'm like, I
feel like, wow, you need to be told we're going
to swap this halfway through, Like that's fucking sneaky and
do a switcheroo in a massage.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I think so too. What if you'd asked for
someone specifically?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I don't know. Fuck, it made me laugh. I'm like,
of course you would get that. I feel like he
always gets weird shit when we do.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
This, probably because you send him to the ship places.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, totally. I told you mate, he's compared to mine.
It was so different.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Anyway, let's get into a bit of chronic health chart,
which is what we're here for. Thank you for your messages.
We love hearing from you. Show and Tell podcast is
where you can find us on Instagram. Just shoot us
a message, love a voice message as well. But we've
got a beautiful written message through from one of you
called Chrissy. So Hi Chrissy, thanks for listening to the pod.
(11:40):
And this is what she wrote. Brooke and Monty Hello.
Wanted to reach out to say thank you for helping
the unseen feel scene. I have chronic back issues that
I've been dealing with for nineteen years now. Some days
I can barely move. I also have depression and anxiety
as a result of this. I've just started doing intense
therapy and breath work, and i know it's not going
(12:02):
to fix it, but I've become so aware of how
much childhood trauma my body is holding and my back
is copying the brunt. I've started to feel small shifts
with this new focus. What are your thoughts on trauma
and chronic health issues.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, that's so interesting. I've been thinking about this a
little bit lately because I've heard that you store trauma
in your body and even if you're you feel like
you're okay and you know the traumatic event has been
and gone. Even if you're okay, your body still remembers
(12:36):
it if you haven't dealt with it, like if there's
been no resolution, it will stay stuck in your body,
which is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It is so is fascinating. I do like goes without saying.
We're not doctors. Everything we talk about is just purely
our own opinions or experiences. But I used to think
things like this was horseshit. I'm like as if like,
but just obviously, as you get old, you realize how
connected your body and your mind are. Like if you
sit there and physically think of something, you can change
(13:06):
the sensation in your body, So the link there is
completely may deniable. It's so amazing. But yeah, the fact
that our body and ourselves have memory that then can
be held on to and then play out as an adult. Ye,
it's pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I find this so interesting because it can be any
kind of trauma. Doesn't have to be childhood trauma, right.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
No, And I think that we all think of trauma
as like a big event, but it doesn't have to be.
It can just be something or.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Like something that was big for you.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Like yeah, but I think sometimes when I think of trauma,
I think of you know, sexual abuse or a death
or something like that. It doesn't for trauma for your
body and your mind doesn't even have to be like that.
It can just be little things that build up or
something that affected you that you didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It could be like a marriage breakdown or a relationship breakdown.
It could be anything that was a lot that, yeah,
you didn't deal with. I want to know, Like, I
think maybe that, like because I always feel like mentally
I'm fine, I'm good, but I have been having these
really big reactions to things like the lymphatic drainage massages
(14:18):
and vinyl energetics. So they tell me there's a lot
of this is all the trauma releasing from your game,
and so then I'm like, okay, I'm trying to understand it.
So then I'm like, okay, does that mean that I
haven't dealt with the trauma, but I feel like I have.
So what do you do if you don't know what
to do to get rid of the trauma?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah? So that because a girlfriend of mine did breath
work the other day, which is a lot of people
are writ into this. I can't do it because that
gives me migraines doing hectic breathing like that. But she
was the same. She's got an autistic son. It's pretty
sure her daughter is. And she is like, pretty sure
she is as well. And she's like, she doesn't have
any hasn't had any real trauma. Besides, you know, day
(15:01):
to day life can be quite challenging. I think this
is also where we get confused with the intensity of
just a specific trauma. But she laid down and did
the breath work, and she could not stop crying, hysterically
crying like wailing, couldn't believe the sounds that were coming
out of her body. Got the full t Rex hands.
Have you heard of when you do the breath workt
(15:22):
how people get the claw hands. And she's like, oh
my god, my hand's going to have to get chopped
off like this is. And she said that the instructor
came over to her and said, you have just released
so much trauma. Everyone else in the room was jealous
of her own.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
If you got it, yeah, that's exciting to have a
big reaction.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Like that totally, but she was fucked for days. She
was like it was so full on, like so full on.
So yeah, and like you with these treatments that you're
getting with spinal healing and lymphatic drainage has to be something,
because that, to me is really like unexplainable. Your body
reacting like that.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It really is. And for those who've perhaps missed the
last podcast, my reaction is like a lot of shaking,
like involuntary shaking, and sometimes like stomach kind of spasming
as well. And it's so yeah, it's so weird because
I feel like, do I just keep on doing these
(16:20):
until it all comes out I stop doing this shaking
or do I need to deal with something? But I
don't know like what I need to deal with.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yes, See, that's weird, isn't it. Where you like mentally,
I feel like, no, I can put those things in
their place. I see them. I'm not denying them, I'm
not ignoring that they happened. But you feel okay with them,
but your body is still stored all that trauma.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah. Yeah, so it's almost like my body saying no,
you haven't. You think you have, but you haven't. Yes,
what are those people like us? Like, what are we
supposed to do? Like totally, I've been looking into it
and it things like cognitive therapy and you haven't done
cognitive therapy.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, CBT. Cognative behavioral therapy is something a lot of
psychologists do that is like the main form of therapy.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So yeah, that's a great It's.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Kind of going, Okay, what's the thought? Is it fact
or is it made up? And focusing on I shouldn't.
I don't know how to explain it properly, but yeah,
that's definitely one way to treat anxiety, and I guess
also past traumas and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Then the other thing I'm wondering if you've done it's
like the I therapy.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yes, EMDR I wrote that down to chat to you about.
So yeah, EMDR stands for I movement, desensitization and reprocessing
and I'm gagging to do this. My PSYCHOLOGISTY does it,
but she is like, you've got to be in a
place that you can actually handle the work. And she said,
(17:50):
I just don't feel we're they're yet with you because
you've got to sit there and you relive the traumatic event,
and then how do you relive it how so they
just will prompt you with heaps of questions and so
then you talk about it and relive it. So you know,
I'll use my mum passing for an example. And one
(18:13):
of the things that I think caused me that still
stays with me is Mum telling me when she had
cancer and I nearly literally passed out, Like I ran
to the bathroom and I had to grip on and
I was like, this is like a fucking movie scene.
I can't breathe, I'm going to pass out. And so
there was a huge response to my body there. But
if I was to sit down with my psychologist, I
(18:33):
would have to talk about where I was sitting, you know,
what it felt like, what were the words, and really
get into that moment. And then your eyes go like
back and forward or they do a tapping thing and
it's meant to reprogram you or for you to see
the situation in a different way. It's so fucking out there,
(18:56):
but it's amazing for PTSD and soldiers use it all
the time like it's a real it's a scientific thing.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think we should both do it and report back. Yeah,
have you got a psych I do, but I don't.
Like I've probably been like a couple of times really
in the last few years, Like when I was first
diagnosed with MS, they suggested I get a psychologist, and
I yeah, and I spoke to her shortly after, and
(19:23):
maybe one or two times since, but really only when
I'm pushed. I don't. I don't know. It's a funny thing.
I just don't feel like I get much out of it.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, I don't know a lot of people are like
that though, like some you know, and maybe this other
healing you're doing works for you, where for me, I'm like,
I'm not doing spinal energetics. But I just did an
hour session with my psychologist. I do it every two weeks,
and before I go in, I'm like, I can't be fucked,
but hands down, after it every time, I'm like, thank god,
I did that.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Okay, so tell me talk me through why, like what
happens afterwards that you feel like, oh that was so good.
I'm so glad I went.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I think because I'm conscious of I don't want to
talk to everyone. It's like I'm paying somebody to sit
there and hear me winge and go through my problems.
So there's that feeling of guilt is taken away. If
I'm just to offload constantly to you or to Sam
and want advice back from you, that's pretty hectic on
(20:25):
you guys.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, where it's like I know she's a professional. I
know that the advice that she's going to give me
is going to be practical tools I can implement. Also
validates me because sometimes I feel guilty about the guilt
which is a whole episode in that, or annoyed at
myself for not having more mental control over something. And
it's just having almost a professional going that's really valid.
(20:49):
Like what you're feeling is not insane, it's valid.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I think sometimes it sounds simple, but things like that
are really helpful.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, Okay, that's really interesting. Maybe I just haven't found
the right person because yeah, I don't I don't get
I don't get that at all.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, And if it's just a chore you don't want
to do it, it definitely depends on who the person
is though.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, yeah, and what they can get out of you,
I suppose, Like I feel like sometimes like we start
talking and she'll say hell are you, and I be
like good, and then we end up talking about my
kids and their problems and like just stuff because I
don't know what I'm supposed to say.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I know, I always leading into them like oh I
don't have much today, and then sure enough we'll find it.
I think it's a good psych who can find what's
is an area for you to talk about. But then
I don't know. I feel like every one of us
should have one because we all have shit and all
need to work through it. But then there's clearly like
between you and I, I'm the one who needs one
(21:47):
more than you, Like you're going to be able to
get away without having one more than me, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
But then again like maybe like I do the other
things and that you know, that works for me, but
maybe wouldn't work for you. Yeah, final energetics and stuff,
you know.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, but I'm definitely really really keen to do am D.
I've actually been asking her for years now and she's like,
not just yet, not just yet. I'm like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
God, my god, no tell her you're ready, You're ready
to go.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
It's what I said. I'm like, you know, I've got
nowhere else to go now, there's no more hiding. Let's
just get this shit done and it can't make me
any worse.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Like, let's just let's do it. Let's do it like
in the next month, let's aim to do it.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, I will ask her next time as well. But yeah, anyway,
but a lot of them do it now and it
is meant to be amazing. But I also just looked
up about trauma on the body, and because there is
our bodies when we experience something going to fight, flight, freeze,
or thorn.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Have you heard of the I've heard of four.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
No, it's a new one, and I've heard people say
it all the time. But yeah, so fawn is when
you like appease the threat by like being compliant or subsessive.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Okay, so fawn is like the people pleaser.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
People please it. Yeah, freezes when you physically shut down.
Fight is when you obviously fight back, and flight is
when you run. And I think, I am I often
freeze or I fawn as well. I think, what do
you reckon? You do in crisis situations?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So freeze is like, sorry, shut down, freezer, shut down. Yeah,
I don't think I do that, and then.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Tell me the other ones fight. So you you know
your body goes into a fighting reaction or flight, you
kind of run away from it, and is.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
When you go into a fight, what is a fighting reaction?
Is that like you get angry or you get overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I guess it's I guess it's so different for everybody,
but yeah, I guess it would be into yeah, fighting back,
like yeah, defensive, just protection all of that.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I guess, yeah, maybe fight like maybe like overwhelmed and
stressy and that kind of thing, and then maybe fawn
as well.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I think, yeah, where you just to keep the peace
and stuff like that. I guess it's all so different.
It would be so different from all of us. But
all of these responses are meant to be really fleeting
in our bodies, so it's like there's you know, something
fucked happens. They always use the example of you know,
back in the old days, you're getting attack, like a
saber toothed tiger is running after you, and it's just
(24:27):
the immediate reaction of what your body does you go
into fight or flight or now freezing fawn and you're
meant to then move through it really quickly and so
then your body can recalibrate and you you just can
get on with life. But so many of us get
stuck in those.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Right, Yeah, I don't move through it. I think I
moved through it quickly. I think I do that, but
maybe deal with it.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, okay, Well, I feel like I'm constantly in fight
or flight. Like I feel like I'm always on God act,
what am I reacting to?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Like?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Where's the threat? I always perceived a threat that isn't
always rarely even there, but my body charges like it is.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You're very in tune with your body. I think, like
very in tune to like to even know that, because
I feel like I don't. I don't even know what
my body does in those situations.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, but that's also I've had so long with having
mental health issues that I've read all the stuff, doing
all the work, and so I'm much more I've had
to be more aware, do you know what I mean?
Where it's like you can just live your day to
day life and not think about it. It's like we
put a post up the other day going, look at
my husband just sitting there with no anxiety, like just
(25:40):
gets a.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Snack and doesn't think about it.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I'm like, that's amazing. You're the kid who just gets
the snack and doesn't fucking think about it.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Oh no, I don't know if I'm if I'm like that,
but I but yeah, but maybe that's not a good
thing either, because then maybe you know, I'm one of
those people like Chrissy just said, like who stores or
like stores the trauma. You don't talk about it and
you don't deal with it. You know, it's interesting, it's
really interesting, and I wonder if, like also, like if
it does account for a lot of people's issues that
(26:09):
they don't know about. Like you know, a lot of
people say with when you store the trauma in your
body physically, it can like come on as like stomach digestion,
gut totally. Yeah, a lot of women have gut issues,
like I reckon, like fifty percent of women have gut issues,
And I wonder if that's part of it too.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It would have to be. And that's also like with this,
I'm doing so much Western medical wise in terms of medication,
I'm doing psychology, I'm doing everything I can. Yet I'm
still chronically ill. So that's when I'm like, my body
it's not just going to be one or the other.
But there's clearly trauma there and I'm not I can
(26:49):
think of situations that are hands down now have caused
me PTSD that I do need to work through more
because my body clearly is storing it. And even just yeah,
the clenched jaw constantly, like that's the body holding onto it.
That's not my mind doing that, that's my reacting.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So incredible, it's such a it's so like just fascinating
how it's also linked.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, it's fascinating but terrifying because then of course somebody
with anxiety, I get anxious about being anxious because I'm like, fuck,
this anxiety is not good for your body, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Oh mate, that's hard, that's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yes, I think sometimes being super aware of stuff like
that is harder because then I am like, oh, I'm
anxious about being anxious, and oh my god, like your
head's bad. It's because you're being anxious, anxious, anxious.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
It's like this vicious cycle for you.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Totally. Yeah, it is interesting. I would love to hear
if you guys have you know, tried anything, what your
thoughts are with the link between the body and storing
trauma and anything like that. Like, we want to explore
anything on this podcast, anything that's maybe helped you or
you tried, or you're interested in let's just chat about it.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Maybe we'll get someone on too. So if you have
any questions about trauma and how it's stored and how
you release it and all those kinds of things, we
might get someone on and they could talk us through
what to do. That would be really interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I think there are so many experts we need to
get on, so we want to hear from you guys too.
Let us know who you want to hear from, what
you want to hear about. Show and Tell podcast is
where you can find us. Thank you for listening. If
you want to give us a rating wherever you listen
to your podcast, that's so helpful, or share this with
your friends anyone you think it might help, or your
family and we'll chat you soon.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Thanks for listening.
It's chronic time. It's Manti and Brook wevio today.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, hey, getting a little having a little experiment there
with the the singing today.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Always you never know what's coming out.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Everyone, it is Brook and it is Monty and this
is your iconic podcast all about chronic health issues. I
have chronic fatigue, chronic migraines, pots and casts.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You you got lots of ship, lots of shit. I'm
just going to stick with MS for now. Yeah, yeah,
that's it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, fair enough. I mean, MS feels like I know
we shouldn't compare baggage, but I feel like MS. Trump's
a lot of shit.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You know, it doesn't at all, It honestly does not.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I think that is one of the reasons. Also why
we do this podcast is because everyone listening, or if
you're listening, because you've got a family member with chronic
health issues. I think that is one thing we tend
to do, is compare who's got what and who's you know,
I don't I'm not as bad as her, or you know,
I've got it worse than her. I think this podcast
(01:14):
is we've all got our own shit. It's all different,
and I think comparing is sometimes where the worst. It's
the worst because sometimes when I'm complaining, in the back
of my head, I'm like, but books called fucking ms,
why are you winging? I think it's a relative to
our world as well, you know what's going on in
our lives. So whatever you've got going on, you're validated.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Here, yes, yes, safe space here. So Monty, I've just
finished listening to this really good podcast. It's not new,
it's called My Sister the Murderer. Have you listened to this?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
How much do you love a true crime podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Mate? It's all I listen to. I'm obsessed, like I
listened to so many. I just love it. I can't
get enough.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Do you reckon? Because the situations in those darker than
your real life, Like it's the it just takes you
away from your reality of darkness into someone else's darkness.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I don't think so, because I've always loved that, Like
I've always loved those types of like docos and podcasts.
So I don't think so. I just genuinely love it.
I think maybe it's just such escapism, like it's just
so yeah, anything you could possibly imagine, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, I used to love watching like Inside America's hardest prisons.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I just because it's so different from your world. I
was completely fascinated. And I would try and get Sam
to watch with me sometimes and he's like, there's just
no way, like to him watching something like that's how
he's literal worst nightmare or worst fear he's ending up
in jail.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Like it's just but Sam would just never end up
in jail.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Out of anyone in the world, he would never. But
he's like, it's literally my greatest fear, like my.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Because literally Sam, your partner and James mine, Like they're
the two people who would least likely ever end up
in jail.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Oh, no one follows a rule more than Sam. So
it's like unless you yeah, just so straighty one. Even
like I'll be like, just pull over here so I
can run into the shop. I'll get back out, and
he would have fucking driven around the block so he
doesn't even fall up a slight bit of traffic or anything.
It's such a rule following game.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And I'll say to James, just to a U tune here, No, no, no,
I have to wait. Wait. I'm like, oh my god,
do it blondy Jesus, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's mainly the car that drives me blonky anyway, Yeah,
what was it called.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yes, it's called My Sister the Murderer. Also, I should
mention that I posted on our Instagram page that I've
been obsessed with Blink another podcast. If you haven't listened
to that, you should. It's new and there's a new
episode that drops every week. But it's amazing. And that's
about a guy who has this really rare condition and
he's in a coma and everybody thinks that he can't
(04:00):
hear what's going on, but he can. And so for
years he's in hospital and in like all these different
palliative care homes and no one knows that he can hear,
and his wife starts doing all this crazy stuff and
he can hear everything.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It is.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's a true story, and he's telling he's telling it
with the journalists. It's so good. It's really so.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Then he obviously comes out of it where he can
talk and everything.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, and now he does like these motivational talks and
things like that. But it's really cool. Yeah, it's really yeah,
really good. And then the other one that yeah, is
My Sister the Murderer, and it's not new but I've
just finished it and it's so like unbelievable, And it's
about this. I think the guys Ryan, Ryan's his name,
and his sister murdered their grandfather.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Oh, it's just and she murdered him sounds fun.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Oh yeah, she murdered him for money because she knew
that he had money stashed in the house and she
thought that he had one hundred grands stashed in this shed,
so she murdered him. And then there was no money in.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
The shed, so she just cooled grabs for no reason.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
For nothing, And the whole thing is just unbelievable. Like,
I think it was a really big deal at the time.
Her name, the murderer is Brittany Dwyer. I think it
was a big deal at the time. And her mom
comes on, So Ryan's mother, Brittany's mother comes on and
talks about how it was for her and just like
how it has affected her whole life, and you know,
all the questions you would ask yourself, like what did
(05:31):
I do wrong that my daughter murdered her father?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, because she's your daughter and your father are both gone.
I also like, straight away, go if there's one hundred
grand hiding in the shed instead of killing him, Why
didn't you just like do a robbery as opposed to
kill the poor guy.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Apparently she tried to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Okay, when she got him on the second attempt. When
I was growing up, my nan used to live in
a unit by herself, and she used to hide her
money in the free So many.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
People do that. They probably still do. A lot of
people do that.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I reckon that generation is dying out, so there's not
many people now that are like, oh, that's a good
idea to hide your money in a freezer. But maybe
because it's now so not done that it's a clever
thing to hide it in there, So then robbers wouldn't
check your freezer anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I don't know. Maybe I don't know. I thought the
freezers like under the mattress, like surely no one does
it anymore, But yeah, probably do. They probably do.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
But I used to remember as a kid just loving
touching the crispy cold notes, like it was always such
a novelty to get an icy pole, and then.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It'd be like, oh, man, did you ever steal some.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
No, I never stole from her. I did my par
though on so that was now on dad's side, and
then my par on my mom's side, who is just
so beautiful. He used to have a jar full of
coins and I would steal from the coin jar. I
used to have this little purse and I used to
love the feeling of this purse being full of coin
(07:00):
and having the freedom to go to the milk bar.
And I remember my mum one day's like, where'd you
get all these coins from? And I had to say,
I took them from PA's jar, and she was like,
You're gotta tell Pa, And I just felt sick. Did
you tast the last time I stole from a family member?
I think I did. I think I worded it in
(07:20):
a way like par, I've just borrowed a little bit
of money from there, like you want a kid who
gives a kids are taking coins? But no, no, it
got a bit too this this little purse was always fat,
and Mums was very sus on it too funny.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And tell me you had some kind of massage this week.
But I he mentioned it in a text, but I
can't understand. I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, so I'm going for my second one. But I
had something called a buckle or boogle massage. So boogle's
inside your mouth. It's like a part of your cheek
or your mowlers or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh yeah, it's one of those jaw massages where they
get in your mouth.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes, they get run and some doos do your mouth like,
you know, push on parts of your mouth when they're
doing your you know, neck cracks and stuff like that.
I've had a bit of inner mouthwork done before, but
this massage is like she puts on gloves and gets
so into your cheek muscles all around your cheeks. Yeah,
(08:22):
because she'll push really hard to like reduce all of
the pressure in your mouth. So it's you think, like
so many of us grind our teeth or clench my
jaw a lot. Like sometimes when I get up during
the middle of that, I go to the toilet. I'll
sit on there. I'm like, oh my god, your jaw
is clam like just so full shut.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, a lot of people hold all their attension in
their jaw totally, which is where I do my neck
and my jaw.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So you lay down and she gives you this the
most epic head and face massage. Like, is there anything
better than a head message?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No? I love a head messag. Do so badly, so badly.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So much so this was all head and face and
then only ten to fifteen minutes of it was internal.
Actual book will work. So they try to make it
pleasant for you, and she's like, look, this is going
to be intense. The more you get it done, it
will relieve a lot of tension. I left feeling a
million bucks. Oh wow, I didn't cure a thing. I
(09:25):
don't think it's necessarily I'm just trying to do these
things for my nervous system. And I'm like, oh, it
releases a bit of tension in the draw and it's
an hour of you know, this hour of helping my
nervous system. Then it was phenomenal. I highly recommend them again,
one of those treatments that are not cheap. But I'm
just going to try and do it a little bit
(09:46):
more regularly. But Sam and I also went and got
a massage together the other day.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
All right, romantic. Yeah, it was cute.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
We went to different places. We couldn't get in at
the same time, but we drove together. I dropped him off,
and of course I booked myself in the better place.
I'm like, oh, couldn't get in the same place. So
I just dropped him off. He gets out and he said, yeah,
that was really good. It was quite firm. But he said,
like they He said, when I went into the room
and put my face down, there was one woman there,
and he said, then when I woke up, it was
(10:14):
a different woman. They changed out mid massage, and.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
He had real idea, that's really weird. What did one
woman just go, oh, I want to deal with this guy.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You know, she had maybe a lunch break or something.
But he said, it was hands down, one woman doing it.
I didn't feel any difference in pressure or style. But
I woke up and a completely different person was finishing it.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Wow, Well, do you know what I think? I think
i'd give him an A for consistency because that's pretty
impressive if you can't tell the difference.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So I was like, how could you not tell? You
tell things just knew that were different. I'm like, I
feel like, wow, you need to be told we're going
to swap this halfway through, Like that's fucking sneaky and
do a switcheroo in a massage.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I think so too. What if you'd asked for
someone specifically?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I don't know. Fuck, it made me laugh. I'm like,
of course you would get that. I feel like he
always gets weird shit when we do.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
This, probably because you send him to the ship places.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, totally. I told you mate, he's compared to mine.
It was so different.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Anyway, let's get into a bit of chronic health chart,
which is what we're here for. Thank you for your messages.
We love hearing from you. Show and Tell podcast is
where you can find us on Instagram. Just shoot us
a message, love a voice message as well. But we've
got a beautiful written message through from one of you
called Chrissy. So Hi Chrissy, thanks for listening to the pod.
(11:40):
And this is what she wrote. Brooke and Monty Hello.
Wanted to reach out to say thank you for helping
the unseen feel scene. I have chronic back issues that
I've been dealing with for nineteen years now. Some days
I can barely move. I also have depression and anxiety
as a result of this. I've just started doing intense
therapy and breath work, and i know it's not going
(12:02):
to fix it, but I've become so aware of how
much childhood trauma my body is holding and my back
is copying the brunt. I've started to feel small shifts
with this new focus. What are your thoughts on trauma
and chronic health issues.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, that's so interesting. I've been thinking about this a
little bit lately because I've heard that you store trauma
in your body and even if you're you feel like
you're okay and you know the traumatic event has been
and gone. Even if you're okay, your body still remembers
(12:36):
it if you haven't dealt with it, like if there's
been no resolution, it will stay stuck in your body,
which is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It is so is fascinating. I do like goes without saying.
We're not doctors. Everything we talk about is just purely
our own opinions or experiences. But I used to think
things like this was horseshit. I'm like as if like,
but just obviously, as you get old, you realize how
connected your body and your mind are. Like if you
sit there and physically think of something, you can change
(13:06):
the sensation in your body, So the link there is
completely may deniable. It's so amazing. But yeah, the fact
that our body and ourselves have memory that then can
be held on to and then play out as an adult. Ye,
it's pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I find this so interesting because it can be any
kind of trauma. Doesn't have to be childhood trauma, right.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
No, And I think that we all think of trauma
as like a big event, but it doesn't have to be.
It can just be something or.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Like something that was big for you.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Like yeah, but I think sometimes when I think of trauma,
I think of you know, sexual abuse or a death
or something like that. It doesn't for trauma for your
body and your mind doesn't even have to be like that.
It can just be little things that build up or
something that affected you that you didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
It could be like a marriage breakdown or a relationship breakdown.
It could be anything that was a lot that, yeah,
you didn't deal with. I want to know, Like, I
think maybe that, like because I always feel like mentally
I'm fine, I'm good, but I have been having these
really big reactions to things like the lymphatic drainage massages
(14:18):
and vinyl energetics. So they tell me there's a lot
of this is all the trauma releasing from your game,
and so then I'm like, okay, I'm trying to understand it.
So then I'm like, okay, does that mean that I
haven't dealt with the trauma, but I feel like I have.
So what do you do if you don't know what
to do to get rid of the trauma?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah? So that because a girlfriend of mine did breath
work the other day, which is a lot of people
are writ into this. I can't do it because that
gives me migraines doing hectic breathing like that. But she
was the same. She's got an autistic son. It's pretty
sure her daughter is. And she is like, pretty sure
she is as well. And she's like, she doesn't have
any hasn't had any real trauma. Besides, you know, day
(15:01):
to day life can be quite challenging. I think this
is also where we get confused with the intensity of
just a specific trauma. But she laid down and did
the breath work, and she could not stop crying, hysterically
crying like wailing, couldn't believe the sounds that were coming
out of her body. Got the full t Rex hands.
Have you heard of when you do the breath workt
(15:22):
how people get the claw hands. And she's like, oh
my god, my hand's going to have to get chopped
off like this is. And she said that the instructor
came over to her and said, you have just released
so much trauma. Everyone else in the room was jealous
of her own.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
If you got it, yeah, that's exciting to have a
big reaction.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Like that totally, but she was fucked for days. She
was like it was so full on, like so full on.
So yeah, and like you with these treatments that you're
getting with spinal healing and lymphatic drainage has to be something,
because that, to me is really like unexplainable. Your body
reacting like that.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It really is. And for those who've perhaps missed the
last podcast, my reaction is like a lot of shaking,
like involuntary shaking, and sometimes like stomach kind of spasming
as well. And it's so yeah, it's so weird because
I feel like, do I just keep on doing these
(16:20):
until it all comes out I stop doing this shaking
or do I need to deal with something? But I
don't know like what I need to deal with.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yes, See, that's weird, isn't it. Where you like mentally,
I feel like, no, I can put those things in
their place. I see them. I'm not denying them, I'm
not ignoring that they happened. But you feel okay with them,
but your body is still stored all that trauma.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah. Yeah, so it's almost like my body saying no,
you haven't. You think you have, but you haven't. Yes,
what are those people like us? Like, what are we
supposed to do? Like totally, I've been looking into it
and it things like cognitive therapy and you haven't done
cognitive therapy.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, CBT. Cognative behavioral therapy is something a lot of
psychologists do that is like the main form of therapy.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So yeah, that's a great It's.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Kind of going, Okay, what's the thought? Is it fact
or is it made up? And focusing on I shouldn't.
I don't know how to explain it properly, but yeah,
that's definitely one way to treat anxiety, and I guess
also past traumas and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Then the other thing I'm wondering if you've done it's
like the I therapy.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yes, EMDR I wrote that down to chat to you about.
So yeah, EMDR stands for I movement, desensitization and reprocessing
and I'm gagging to do this. My PSYCHOLOGISTY does it,
but she is like, you've got to be in a
place that you can actually handle the work. And she said,
(17:50):
I just don't feel we're they're yet with you because
you've got to sit there and you relive the traumatic event,
and then how do you relive it how so they
just will prompt you with heaps of questions and so
then you talk about it and relive it. So you know,
I'll use my mum passing for an example. And one
(18:13):
of the things that I think caused me that still
stays with me is Mum telling me when she had
cancer and I nearly literally passed out, Like I ran
to the bathroom and I had to grip on and
I was like, this is like a fucking movie scene.
I can't breathe, I'm going to pass out. And so
there was a huge response to my body there. But
if I was to sit down with my psychologist, I
(18:33):
would have to talk about where I was sitting, you know,
what it felt like, what were the words, and really
get into that moment. And then your eyes go like
back and forward or they do a tapping thing and
it's meant to reprogram you or for you to see
the situation in a different way. It's so fucking out there,
(18:56):
but it's amazing for PTSD and soldiers use it all
the time like it's a real it's a scientific thing.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think we should both do it and report back. Yeah,
have you got a psych I do, but I don't.
Like I've probably been like a couple of times really
in the last few years, Like when I was first
diagnosed with MS, they suggested I get a psychologist, and
I yeah, and I spoke to her shortly after, and
(19:23):
maybe one or two times since, but really only when
I'm pushed. I don't. I don't know. It's a funny thing.
I just don't feel like I get much out of it.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, I don't know a lot of people are like
that though, like some you know, and maybe this other
healing you're doing works for you, where for me, I'm like,
I'm not doing spinal energetics. But I just did an
hour session with my psychologist. I do it every two weeks,
and before I go in, I'm like, I can't be fucked,
but hands down, after it every time, I'm like, thank god,
I did that.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Okay, so tell me talk me through why, like what
happens afterwards that you feel like, oh that was so good.
I'm so glad I went.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I think because I'm conscious of I don't want to
talk to everyone. It's like I'm paying somebody to sit
there and hear me winge and go through my problems.
So there's that feeling of guilt is taken away. If
I'm just to offload constantly to you or to Sam
and want advice back from you, that's pretty hectic on
(20:25):
you guys.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, where it's like I know she's a professional. I
know that the advice that she's going to give me
is going to be practical tools I can implement. Also
validates me because sometimes I feel guilty about the guilt
which is a whole episode in that, or annoyed at
myself for not having more mental control over something. And
it's just having almost a professional going that's really valid.
(20:49):
Like what you're feeling is not insane, it's valid.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I think sometimes it sounds simple, but things like that
are really helpful.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, Okay, that's really interesting. Maybe I just haven't found
the right person because yeah, I don't I don't get
I don't get that at all.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, And if it's just a chore you don't want
to do it, it definitely depends on who the person
is though.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, yeah, and what they can get out of you,
I suppose, Like I feel like sometimes like we start
talking and she'll say hell are you, and I be
like good, and then we end up talking about my
kids and their problems and like just stuff because I
don't know what I'm supposed to say.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I know, I always leading into them like oh I
don't have much today, and then sure enough we'll find it.
I think it's a good psych who can find what's
is an area for you to talk about. But then
I don't know. I feel like every one of us
should have one because we all have shit and all
need to work through it. But then there's clearly like
between you and I, I'm the one who needs one
(21:47):
more than you, Like you're going to be able to
get away without having one more than me, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
But then again like maybe like I do the other
things and that you know, that works for me, but
maybe wouldn't work for you. Yeah, final energetics and stuff,
you know.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, but I'm definitely really really keen to do am D.
I've actually been asking her for years now and she's like,
not just yet, not just yet. I'm like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
God, my god, no tell her you're ready, You're ready
to go.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
It's what I said. I'm like, you know, I've got
nowhere else to go now, there's no more hiding. Let's
just get this shit done and it can't make me
any worse.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Like, let's just let's do it. Let's do it like
in the next month, let's aim to do it.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, I will ask her next time as well. But yeah, anyway,
but a lot of them do it now and it
is meant to be amazing. But I also just looked
up about trauma on the body, and because there is
our bodies when we experience something going to fight, flight, freeze,
or thorn.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Have you heard of the I've heard of four.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
No, it's a new one, and I've heard people say
it all the time. But yeah, so fawn is when
you like appease the threat by like being compliant or subsessive.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Okay, so fawn is like the people pleaser.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
People please it. Yeah, freezes when you physically shut down.
Fight is when you obviously fight back, and flight is
when you run. And I think, I am I often
freeze or I fawn as well. I think, what do
you reckon? You do in crisis situations?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So freeze is like, sorry, shut down, freezer, shut down. Yeah,
I don't think I do that, and then.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Tell me the other ones fight. So you you know
your body goes into a fighting reaction or flight, you
kind of run away from it, and is.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
When you go into a fight, what is a fighting reaction?
Is that like you get angry or you get overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I guess it's I guess it's so different for everybody,
but yeah, I guess it would be into yeah, fighting back,
like yeah, defensive, just protection all of that.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I guess, yeah, maybe fight like maybe like overwhelmed and
stressy and that kind of thing, and then maybe fawn
as well.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I think, yeah, where you just to keep the peace
and stuff like that. I guess it's all so different.
It would be so different from all of us. But
all of these responses are meant to be really fleeting
in our bodies, so it's like there's you know, something
fucked happens. They always use the example of you know,
back in the old days, you're getting attack, like a
saber toothed tiger is running after you, and it's just
(24:27):
the immediate reaction of what your body does you go
into fight or flight or now freezing fawn and you're
meant to then move through it really quickly and so
then your body can recalibrate and you you just can
get on with life. But so many of us get
stuck in those.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Right, Yeah, I don't move through it. I think I
moved through it quickly. I think I do that, but
maybe deal with it.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, okay, Well, I feel like I'm constantly in fight
or flight. Like I feel like I'm always on God act,
what am I reacting to?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Like?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Where's the threat? I always perceived a threat that isn't
always rarely even there, but my body charges like it is.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You're very in tune with your body. I think, like
very in tune to like to even know that, because
I feel like I don't. I don't even know what
my body does in those situations.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, but that's also I've had so long with having
mental health issues that I've read all the stuff, doing
all the work, and so I'm much more I've had
to be more aware, do you know what I mean?
Where it's like you can just live your day to
day life and not think about it. It's like we
put a post up the other day going, look at
my husband just sitting there with no anxiety, like just
(25:40):
gets a.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Snack and doesn't think about it.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I'm like, that's amazing. You're the kid who just gets
the snack and doesn't fucking think about it.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Oh no, I don't know if I'm if I'm like that,
but I but yeah, but maybe that's not a good
thing either, because then maybe you know, I'm one of
those people like Chrissy just said, like who stores or
like stores the trauma. You don't talk about it and
you don't deal with it. You know, it's interesting, it's
really interesting, and I wonder if, like also, like if
it does account for a lot of people's issues that
(26:09):
they don't know about. Like you know, a lot of
people say with when you store the trauma in your
body physically, it can like come on as like stomach digestion,
gut totally. Yeah, a lot of women have gut issues,
like I reckon, like fifty percent of women have gut issues,
And I wonder if that's part of it too.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It would have to be. And that's also like with this,
I'm doing so much Western medical wise in terms of medication,
I'm doing psychology, I'm doing everything I can. Yet I'm
still chronically ill. So that's when I'm like, my body
it's not just going to be one or the other.
But there's clearly trauma there and I'm not I can
(26:49):
think of situations that are hands down now have caused
me PTSD that I do need to work through more
because my body clearly is storing it. And even just yeah,
the clenched jaw constantly, like that's the body holding onto it.
That's not my mind doing that, that's my reacting.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So incredible, it's such a it's so like just fascinating
how it's also linked.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, it's fascinating but terrifying because then of course somebody
with anxiety, I get anxious about being anxious because I'm like, fuck,
this anxiety is not good for your body, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Oh mate, that's hard, that's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yes, I think sometimes being super aware of stuff like
that is harder because then I am like, oh, I'm
anxious about being anxious, and oh my god, like your
head's bad. It's because you're being anxious, anxious, anxious.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
It's like this vicious cycle for you.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Totally. Yeah, it is interesting. I would love to hear
if you guys have you know, tried anything, what your
thoughts are with the link between the body and storing
trauma and anything like that. Like, we want to explore
anything on this podcast, anything that's maybe helped you or
you tried, or you're interested in let's just chat about it.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Maybe we'll get someone on too. So if you have
any questions about trauma and how it's stored and how
you release it and all those kinds of things, we
might get someone on and they could talk us through
what to do. That would be really interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I think there are so many experts we need to
get on, so we want to hear from you guys too.
Let us know who you want to hear from, what
you want to hear about. Show and Tell podcast is
where you can find us. Thank you for listening. If
you want to give us a rating wherever you listen
to your podcast, that's so helpful, or share this with
your friends anyone you think it might help, or your
family and we'll chat you soon.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.