A Brutally Honest Review Of Call Her Daddy's Alex Cooper

Call Her Alex has landed on Disney+, offering a glossy, tightly curated look at the rise of podcast juggernaut Alex Cooper, but just how honest is the series really?

In this episode, we dive into how Alex's role in shaping the narrative we get to see as viewers. We also unpack her childhood and explore how she built one of the most influential media brands in the world, along with the unexpected role her husband plays in the empire.

Plus, we get into the moments that felt raw and revealing… and the ones that felt like they were left on the cutting room floor. Let’s just say, there’s a lot going on beneath the surface of Call Her Alex, and we get into it all.

Read the substack we explore about the lack of diversity among Call Her Daddy guests here.

GET IN TOUCH:
Do you have feedback or a topic you want us to discuss on The Spill? Send us a voice message, or send us an email [e-mail] and we'll come back to you ASAP!

Read all the latest entertainment news on Mamamia... here. 

THE END BITS
The Spill podcast is on Instagram here.
Read all the latest entertainment news on Mamamia... here.
Subscribe to Mamamia

CREDITS
Hosts: Laura Brodnik and Em Vernem
Executive Producer: Monisha Iswaran
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach

Mamamia studios are styled with furniture from Fenton and Fenton.
Visit: fentonandfenton.com.au

Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that
this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome to
the spill your daily pop culture fixed. I'm Laura Brodneck
and I'm m Vernon and welcome to a brutally honest review.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
We haven't done one of these in a while.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I mean you won't here for the last one, but
it was lin. We'll put in the show notes. I
haven't done on we haven't done with it now. We
don't like to play favorites with our episodes or our
episode topics, but I think it's clear to say that
this our brutally honors review episodes.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Are our favorites one hundred percent because we.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Get to deep dive into some big things. So if
you haven't listened to one before, first of all, welcome
and just you know Gorja Lloin's because because some stuff's
about to go down. But it's basically where we talk
about any new big TV show or movie that has
completely captured a global conversation, something that everyone's watched, something
that people are talking about, and we really go deep

(01:12):
into the whole thing, So spoilers galore, just be aware.
And this week's brutally honest review is on the new
documentary Call Her Alex.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Call Her Alex Hi, Alex Gang. That's all they should
have done.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
They didn't do that. So if you haven't watched it,
or we're about to spoil some things for you, but
you know, it's a lot there in the public record.
So it's a new two part documentary series that has
just premiered in Australia on Disney Plus this week, and
it's a documentary about Alexandra Cooper, the most successful female
podcast host in the world, but also one of the
most successful podcast hosts overall.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yes just under Joe Rogan I believe, Yes so, like
the second biggest podcast in.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
The world, Yes So. And she has become like a
huge media personality and star in her own ride alongside
her podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
She's very young, she's only thirty. Yeah, just insane.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
She'd been the podcasting game for a really long time.
Paullo Daddy started many many years ago and that's where
she really rose to prominence. And since then she did
to her business partner, she's gone to host the show.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Sol she dished a business partner, she did her network.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, she signed a huge deal with Spotify, and then
she moved to Serious and signed an even bigger deal.
She's got a production company now. She makes movies, she
makes TV shows, she does live tours, all the things.
But this is the first time that something like this
that's a very kind of intimate look into her life
has aired. So the documentary premiere at Tribeca Film Festival
to really good reviews, I would say, and now we

(02:36):
can watch it in Australia. Oh, we've watched the full
two hours and top line thoughts as we jump in,
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I've actually been a longtime listener of Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, so before the whole blop, it was.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
The like when it was her Interfea. I probably listened
when they just signed with Barstool Sports. I feel like
Barstool Sports really pushed them into the spotlight. And I
think that's also when, like in Australia, like they started
becoming internationally famous. But they originally started as an independent
podcast because they were living together as roommates. They became
really good friends and they started as a really like salacious,

(03:15):
sexy podcast and their whole thing was talking about sex
in the way that men have always talked about sex
and women have historically been told not to say that
stuff out loud, even though like we all do with
our friends over drinks, and it's kind of like making
those like dinner with friends conversation happen on a podcast.
And I think they were really good at that. And

(03:36):
it was also the time that I had started a
similar podcast, the Undone at MoMA.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
Man.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
It's also when I started having.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
When I learned how to have sex, which.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Probably fine, imagine. I was like, Wow, this is going
deeper than I thought.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
And I just remember because I had like a dating
and sex podcast as well at MoMA me I was
your biggest fans, you know, and you were also a
guest on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, we're talking about how to shop.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
It's my fault you to know that.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
But I remember like having this podcast and seeing what
these girls are doing and going in my head I
could never do what they're doing, like literally putting like
I put my life out there, but they put their
life out there like they did not hold back anything,
and it worked so well for them. And I think
when they got that massive deal at Barstool Sports, it

(04:34):
was just like it just started getting higher and higher
and higher, and I just became more and more obsessed.
And now it's become one of those things where I
feel like Call Her Daddy has been changed so drastically
from the original concept that I feel like they've now
just pulled in a full new audience.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
And I'm actually not that part.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Of that audience that they've changed since She's changed the podcast,
Like I loved some of it's it's an interview based
like a celebrity interview show, and it's not the celebrity
interview show for me interesting, and it's like one of
those I wonder if, like I'm kind of like an
outlier here, but I'm sure I'm not like it's changed completely.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Oh yeah, I mean it's got a huge global audience.
But I'm sure those original people, like some of that
original audience that tuned in to hear two girls in
their tiny New York apartment talking about their wild sexcapades
and what they want from sex and relationships and going
out to be sugar babies and all that sort of stuff,
like I'm sure now with the former Vice President of
the United States talking about her policies in a show

(05:36):
filmed in Washington, which is kind of where Caller Daddy
has pivoted, is maybe a slightly different audience.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
It is, and it's what I found really interesting about
this documentary series is seeing like I didn't realize that
was my listening behavior with this podcast and visually seeing
it in a documentary series was just like so eye
opening to me.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
So interesting because it does take it on this kind
of journey. So the idea of it was that it
was shot over a year ago when Alex Cooper and
the call Her Daddy podcast show was doing their first
live tour, and it was kind of the build up
to that. And that's also interesting. That's when a lot
of celebrities, when they're doing a tour or something like that,
or if they're like prepping for the Super Bowl or something,
that's when they'll bring the cameras in because it's a

(06:13):
storytelling moment that gives you a beginning, middle, and end
to kind of put the documentary on instead of just
coming in and being like, how do we put all
this story in? So you see the build up of
the tour in the documentary Call Her Alex, You see
them on tour and you see kind of the aftermath,
and in that they interweave and intersect all these moments
from her past that are telling you, giving you the

(06:34):
background of her story, and some of it we knew
a lot about, and some of it was shared with
the world for the first time. An interesting thing is
kind of like which I guess if you listen to
her podcast for a while, you kind of knew growing
up from Pennsylvania, her mum's a psychologist, which I think
goes a lot to how she sometimes steps on the
podcast the youngest of three kids, and I think they
really leant heavily into It's almost like taking a page

(06:57):
of the Megan Markle playbook. They really learn heavily into
when she was growing up she was an ugly duckling,
and that lightly because being bullied at school for anything,
but how you look in primary school devastating and stays
with you. But they show you that she's naturally a
redhead and that she was like talking to the camera
in this and she's like, I was a redhead and
they told me I didn't have a soul and it

(07:18):
was so demoralizing.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
She also talked deeply about when she was a kid,
she was always creative, like she was always making video
like that's crazy, Like the producers of the documentary would
be like.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Cheering to get that footage.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Her parents have so much a video footage of her.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, yeah, she did not grow up or she had
a full basement to herself to create those videos. But
I think what was really interesting is seeing like how
much of that childhood aspect of her had impacted like
what she wanted to do growing up. It's also really
interesting because with a lot of these stories about like
beautiful women who got bullied in primary school, it was

(07:57):
always bullied by other girls. It's like girls hated me,
and this one was like she was like no, men
like boys hated men like boys really hated.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I think for people is the more kind of realistic experience.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
I'm glad they set it up like that because it
gave context to how she flipped the script when she
went to college, because she's like, when I went to college,
it was a time I got to completely reinvent myself
because I had new friends. And then she literally did
reinvent herself, like she became the hot girl.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Blonde bombshell, which is obviously fair enough. It's interesting, so
you go from that like tracing her life of like
ugly duckling, bullied, loved her friends, very creative, gets to
New York and then this is really interesting how they
set up like the genesis of Call Her Daddy, because
we've all heard it before. But I guess this is
where like if you don't know anything about her story,

(08:46):
which I'm sure a lot of people watching this documentary
wouldn't know, it's really interesting how what bits they kind
of cherry picked, yeah to show because when the podcast
was on and you would know this bit for me,
like an og listener, did you think that Sophia Franklin
and Alexander Cooper are the two hosts of Call Her
Daddy who lived together and recorded together. Did you think
they were best friends?

Speaker 2 (09:07):
No?

Speaker 1 (09:08):
No, you didn't.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
No, everyone knew that they were roommates, and they were
very very close and would call each other like my
best friend, my best friend.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
But at the time I.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Feel like you could also hear like we always talk
about this in podcasting, how like if you're too agreeable,
it doesn't make a good podcast, And they were too agreeable.
So I think because I had the context of podcasting,
they were too agreeable and they wanted to impress each other,
and they wanted to outdo each other. And then I'm like, oh,

(09:39):
this is quite competitive, Like neither of them wanted to
stay in their own lane. They didn't like if you're
not in podcasting, you wouldn't hear this. If it's a
good podcast, you wouldn't be able to tell. But each
person in a podcast has like kind of their own stick,
and the other person in the podcast knows that stick,
and we know how to play. It's kind of like

(10:00):
you're acting like you're playing a specific role.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
You have to play a role because I would kind
of say something to like and the other person up
or set them up for a joke. You might lean
harder into something that you don't necessarily think. Not us
spelling all the podcasts to make it like work for
the audience.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
But like, for example, if a listener was to come
to dinner with you and me, they get a whole
different type of personalities from us. It's just stuff that
you just do because it's work, obviously, and I think
because their whole life was work. It just felt like
two girls and you could hear it that they didn't
really like each other that much, but you had to
like pretended they were best friends because that's what you wanted.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, that's what it's so interesting because when I was
listening to it, like in the early days, I did
think they were quite close. I know they lived together,
they made a podcast together, but I did think they
were friends. I didn't realize that they had only met
each other recently and that they had just kind of
come together as a business duo without actually working out
like what they both wanted, what their values were, what
they wanted to do. And that's what led to it

(11:01):
all exploding because in the documentary they show like old
footage of them podcasting together, and you hear alex and
other people talking about how the show just started blowing
up and they had no idea podcast, but they both
had big Instagram followings. They posted it to Instagram, it
blew up, they started getting a fan base. And then
they chose to play one section of audio, yes from

(11:24):
the original podcast when they're introducing each other. Hi, I'm
Alexandra Cooper him Sophia Fanklin from the first episode, and
the only piece of audio they choose to play from
that first episode is the line where Sophia says, and
I'm here to write Alex's coattails. I mean, I mean
so pointed, and it's like, because that is the Alex

(11:45):
picking across the story. That is the allegation from Alex
Cooper and everyone else that Sophia Franklin was there to
write her coattails and that's why she did, and that's
why she ended up falling off.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
That audio kind of did it for me because I
was in on that whole documentary and then the minute
they play that audio, I was immediately pulled out and
I was immediately reminded that, oh, she's created and produced
this documentary.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, like this is a love letter to herself.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh, especially it's directed by someone else, but she's also
very involved in the production. It's almost made me think
of like Taylor's this's documentary, Like both really interesting documentaries,
but they're not documentary in the sense that they're going
to uncover something or show you a complicated portrait of someone.
What you're looking at is.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Like the version that they want, Yeah, say, what's.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
The interesting thing is like what does this very public
person want me to think of them? And then what
do I think of that? And not that I'm going
to get any secrets, because then I think it's really interesting.
As they're setting up the call Her Daddy, like how
that became such a sensation, they then get into like
the barstool situation, and you see that message from Dave
port Nooe, who's the head of Barstool Sports, which was
the company they really launched Call Her Daddy with slip

(12:48):
into their dms and be like, hey, let's chat, and
then they flick to interviewing him. So they sent cameras
into Barstool Sports to interview Dave portnoy who is also
a very very famous man and host a lot of
podcasts and is always saying very controversial things. He's become
like a media kind of person in his own writer
as well. And he was saying that he originally met
with Alex, like he's very specific about what happened. He's like,

(13:11):
I met with Alex. She said, I created the podcast,
I edit the podcast, I do everything, and I struck
a deal with her. And then she said and there's
also Sophia. Once the deal was done, and he's like, look,
he basically like looks into the camera and says, we
didn't even know she existed. It's like such a blatant setup.
Of like pushing her out of the narrative.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
What did you think about how they actually talked about
the split from Alexon's affairs.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
I mean, the thing is like, if you're just watching
the documentary and you weren't sort of aware of it,
it kind of seemed fine if you're me who consumed
so a couple of years ago. This happened just like
five or six years ago. Now so long ago, you
know how I know? My head timeline is like, we
weren't in that old Mamere office. We were in the
old old or Mamamere office. No, we were, Yeah, we were,

(13:58):
because I remember you and I standing at our desk
in that old office that was just like one tiny
floor on that little warehouse with the windows open, being like,
don't you see the call of daddy. Girl's a fighting?
Oh my god, he just went silent. It was a
whole It was actually the most dramatic thing that happened
to me that I was not even involved in.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
It was that era of like all YouTubers posting apologies
because that's exactly what these girls did exactly.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
So going back to this moment in time, what we
saw was like this hugely successful podcast just stopped, and
there were all these rumblings that they were having a fight,
they were falling out, And this is when the podcast
kind of jumped from being like super popular worldwide but
like more of if you know, you know thing, to
headline news, front page of like page six, all those
kind of tabloids the call of Daddy Girls are fighting.

(14:42):
And then it came out sort of what had happened,
and then Dave Portnoy like hijacked their feed and went
and recorded a whole podcast telling his side of the story.
And then Barstools Sports tried to capitalize on their fight,
and they were selling like Free the Fathers merchandise and
also like Team Sophia, Team Alexy was selling merchandise to

(15:03):
try and capitalize on the fact that they'd also sold
sponsors for the shows they weren't creating. And then it
came out that Sophia was out and Alex Cooper had
taken a solo deal without her. Yeah, the context of
that being, I would make sure because I don't want
to like paint either of them as a villain. The
context of that being is that they had had a
falling out because they were making so much money for

(15:23):
Barstool Sports, and they had gone to Dave Portew making
them million millions of dollars, and they had signed a
contract for three years at a much low rate without
anyone knowing how successful the podcast was going to get.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
So they wanted to renegotiate their contract, and basically in
the documentary, this is what happens in the documentary, Alex
says that Dave gave them what she considered was the
deal of a lifetime, which was just do it for
one more year and then you can own the ip
of call her Daddy.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
This is what happened in.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
The documentary, Yes, Sofia, She said that Sofia didn't want
to do that, So Sophia left and Alex continued call
her Daddy for one more year on Barstool Sports by
herself before she got the ip that she owned.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Is what she wanted to call her daddy, name, the audience,
all those things. And this is where reports of what
happened get very conflicting, because if you listen to Alex
Cooper's sart of the story, which she told in a
very long form podcast solo episode once she got her
podcast back, if you believe her story, Sophia is the Villain.
And then if you went and listened to Sophia Franklin

(16:26):
who has her own podcast now called Sophia with an
F and she gave her thoughts on it. She did
a long form podcast, Alex is the Villain. So Alex's
version is that they wanted more money, they held out,
they got offer this deal. They went to Dave Portnoy's rooftop,
remember how that was a big part of the story there,
and he offered them this deal and she wanted to
take it because she wanted the IP and she wanted

(16:48):
to own the show and be able to take it
and sell it. And Sophia, she says, was holding out
for more money. And also the big thing she was
saying is that Sophia had a boyfriend at the time
who had entered the Caller Daddy Universe.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
I forgot about the boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Suitman.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yes, suitman, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
If you told anyone else about this story, if they
didn't know, they'd be like you has an absolutely same
crazy So she started saying this like agent guy who
wore a lot of suits, and he became very involved.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
And the rumors were like it was causing a drift
in their friendship and even like in the documentary, like
Alex's mum was like, you could see their friendship fizzled out,
and I'm like, girl.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
You know we know more than that, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
There's so much that was hard friendship. Yeah, yeah, And
it was the moment that that deal. And then Sophia
has said that Alex like kind of went over the
top of her behind her back a deal and took
the deal and lied to people. Alex said that Sophia
and never did any of the work and wouldn't sign
the deal and she had to go off solo. There's
lots of different stories.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's weird. I kind of believe both yea like too.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
I do believe that Alex did majority of the work
for the podcast. I also believe that Alex wanted to
do the podcast on her own, and I do believe
that she might have gone behind the back to negotiate
deals with Day.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
And I do believe that that man that Sofia was dating.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Calls a drift. And actually I actually think that we've
got the full story. We should pull a few little
parts from each thing.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
We've done.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
The guts solved it, and so in the documentary, the
person who's narrating most of this is Dave port Noy. Yeah.
And the thing about Dave port Noy, this man that
I really know so much about and I wish I didn't,
is he always picks the winning side. He attaches himself
to whoever he thinks is the biggest star, the biggest winner.
And that is how he's built a career and made
a lot of money. And he has always attached himself

(18:36):
since that happened to Alex Cooper, even though she left
Barstool Sports and she's gone on to make millions and
millions billions of dollars off the back of this podcast
that she built at Barstool, He's always stayed in like
really good with her and spoken really well of her.
It's why he attached himself to Taylor Swift and teller.
Swift sent him a note at her concert to say
thank hand I know she didn't know what was going on,

(18:58):
but I was like, girl.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Come on, girl, where was Tree Paine?

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, probably didn't know that handwritten note was sent out
to the audience to Dave.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
She gave it to a dak go give this to that.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
I actually do think.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's what I said.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
I was like, yeah, like, actually, that's exactly what happened.
So that part plays out. The interesting part two is
there's a lot of footage shot in Barstool with Alex
Cooper that we actually didn't see in the documentary because
most of the footage that we see of her and
Sofia in Barstool in the early days is like archival footage. Yeah,
when they first signed the deal.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
I mean, it would be weird if they re enact no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
But here's the thing, because you see Dave Portnoy being
this talking head and then well, Barstool Sports is mostly podcasts.
From my understanding, that's how I know them. They have
a lot of podcasts, they have a lot of very
public figures, and I've been looking at the different podcast
host feeds and tiktoks recently and apparently there's a lot
more to the kind of Alex Cooper's story than we

(19:53):
see in the documentary.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
So Alex came to Alex Cooper came to the Barstool
office like a year ago. She was filming her documentary
that I think is like on the verge of coming out,
and it was very like, you know, Alex has gone
on to become this like superstar, but never really like
she's been kind about Dave and Barstool, but it was
not like she was like I came from barstool or

(20:16):
you know, bar school proud, right, And when she came
back in, it was like with the cameras and everything,
it was very like.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
I'm home, I'm back.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
And I think a lot of people were like, uh,
you do never even like talk to me when you
were here, you know. But I ended up I don't
know if it's gonna make it at all, but I
did like it. They interviewed me for the documentary and
they were kind of going an angle like almost like
a feminist angle where it was hard for her to
be like a girl at barstool, right, And I was like, no,
not at all, Like she clearly thrived, like nothing was hard,

(20:47):
you know what I mean. And they were like, but
but it was different, and you know, they were hammering that.
So I'm a little bit nervous if that comes out,
like how that's gonna, uh, you know, appear.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
But but that was talk to the other women at barstool.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Now safe to say that did not make it in
the spoiler alert.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
That did not make it into the documentary.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
That's so fascinating. So who was that guy.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
One of the hosts from Barstool Spot. Oh okay, so
I should say I don't know if that's the big
kind of gotcha moment that he thought it was when
he shared that, I think in a way it's obviously
watching the documentary, it really is painting Alex Cooper as
this like feminist hero, which to be fair, she is
in many respects, and we'll get to that when we
talk about her live tour, but kind of painting her

(21:30):
as this like underdog with this like beloved part of
Barstool Sports and like you know, and and the fact
that she found it really difficult there being a woman.
And I actually do believe that's probably true. I reckon,
I don't think this man saying no, she didn't have
a hard time because she was successful. I'm sure like
being in an office full of men who were making
like Broie podcasts was difficult, and we've like.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Walked into offices of just men and sorry but like
you all kind of blur into one, like I'm not
like individually signaling each one of you out. But like
I think, I think what's funny is when he said,
like you didn't even talk to.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Me when I was here.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
I think that funny because also like I wouldn't have
either neither.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
I was making a documentary about how successful I was.
I would have walked back in the office.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
Hey.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Friends, it's very mindical, it's very the mind project.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
In this moment, Alex Cooper is a caricature, and I
love her because she's just like and she's successful enough
to pull it off.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
And it's like an act that she has to do
for the documentary. And we saw it in the scene
when she goes back to her first apartment that she
lived in with the fear and she meets those like
that bunch of girls who lives in her old apartment,
and she like reacted in a way no normal person
would react it, and even to the point where the.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Girls were like whoa. She was crying and she was.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Like, I love what you've done with this place. No,
you guys, can I please come in? I need to
see this place And they were like okay, sorry.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Messy, which I had such secondhand stress with them, because
my worst fear is a random stranger with a camera
crew turning into your apartment when you're living in a
twenties share apartment and it is just a rubbish heap, and.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Like she just like opens doors and walks into their
bed taking photos.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
She had my vibrated.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
No, but I understand because she was trying to be
like this is where I started call her daddy, Like
this is where I recorded the first episode. I sat here,
I did this, I did that, and.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
They were like, okay, can we get a photo?

Speaker 1 (23:28):
The funny. I mean, I was half like really emotional
for her because I think having those moments where you
go back to something you began, you think of how
far you've calmed on what's happened, and like the hope
you had setting up the podcast, and I understand they'd
be really emotional. But also these poor girls were just like,
you know, completely different, like wavelengths because she's like there's
magic in these walls and they're just like nodding as

(23:49):
you can just be like they're like we can't afeel, like.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
We can't pay our dentist, bit we're dying.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Statistically, things aren't gonna get me.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Better, Like you're so luckier in this shitty part because
great things happened.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
She's like touching the walls like there's magic in these
walls and the wall like all the part.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Also like it was just her to be a living
then I'm pretty sure they're like, fine, girl, she went
back to that apartment.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Situation. They're like they're like, yeah, we're all sleeping on
the floor of this one bedroom apartment. But still magic
to be successful, to be successful. So yeah, that part
of like, yeah, the Sophia Franklin of it all, it
was super interesting, glossed over, skated over. But I do
understand why because she's spoken about that so much before.

(24:40):
It's been such a defining part of her story, and
this documentary was really highlighting her as more of like
a successful business woman and a feminist icon. And a
lot of that was tied to the Unwell Tool, which
we got like a really behind the scenes look at
what did you think of that? I do wish I
had been able to go watching it.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, I was actually quite impressed by how big it
was because I didn't hear much about the tool, Like
I remember when the tickets went on sale because that
was everywhere. It was the first ever time she did
live tour, was the first time she did like a
kind of stage production, and she's never done one before,
and when I looked at the archival footage of the
actual tour, I was like, Oh, she's taken it to

(25:20):
a whole new level. Like we both attended live podcasts,
events and stuff, and usually it will be like a
live podcast on a stage where you're just like watching
people talking on a stage, and this was a performance.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
It was the best bit watching the just the video
of it, how it looks like there's security.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Guards at the front of the stage and they just
felt like a magic mic moment.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, this is all of these security guards stating the
front of stage well before she comes out, and they're
just looking there and they're looking like they're there to
stop anyone rushing the stage, and all of a sudden,
the music starts and they all start stripping because they're
part of the show. Security guards. Brilliant. Yeah, they really
went hard on the audience shots of that, and they
were doing vox pops at in front of the theater
before people went in, and you could tell they'd either

(26:02):
selected like a certain type of answer or they'd asked
a question that answer because pretty much every single woman
and there were hundreds and hundreds of women at every
show that were all sold out, people were lying the streets,
people were flying in, people flying in, they were traveling,
people were sobbing when she came out. She still got
footage people sobbing and screaming when she came out, and

(26:23):
like they were all being asked outside the theater, why
are you here? Why do you listen to call her daddy?
Why did you come to the unwel tour? And they're
all saying, it's all about empowerment, it's all about women
coming together, it's about women standing up for each other,
which I'm sure there's an element of that, but I
just thought that was very interesting to like really frame
it as like like it wasn't enough for anyone to say,
we're just here to see a podcaster that I love

(26:44):
who says wild things and talks about sex and it's
very entertaining. Yeah, and we're not just here to see
her show, like I'm here to make a political societal statement.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
That's such a good pointing because when I was watching
like the footage of the live show, and I don't
mean to say like it looked like a brilliant show,
and I looked like you'd have so much money you
want to set like a party, but it was also
like deeply scripted.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Oh and everything from what I.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Saw from the footage of the live show was nothing new.
And the fact that she has an audience where like
thousands and thousands of women can come to a production
like that and just watch her repeat things that they already.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Knew, like the gluckluck nine thousand and the.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Just her tell the people techniques.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
I don't know, it's a famous blowjob technique that I
listened to when I think I was like eighteen years old,
and I changed my life and the life of all
the men I've dated.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
And I mean, that is exactly what women in the
audience were saying. So like maybe there was no setup.
Maybe that was exactly because what you said is exactly
what's in the documentary.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's so funny. Maybe I am a you are her.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
But what I found really interesting is that she could
just like repeat this information in a really slow, ted
talkie way and they were just lapping it up.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
The behind the scenes is so interesting. So it takes
you a few days before the first show and they
in rehearsal and you see Alex on stage, and this
is I think where you start to realize just how
script it is because she's on stage and she's completely
memorizing her lines, and then she's in the rehearsal space,
and all of the producers and all the people who

(28:18):
have written the show worked on the show in the audience,
including her husband and business partner Matt Kaplan. We'll get
to him things about that is in the audience, and
Matt Caplan in particular, her husband is giving her a
lot of feedback of like slow down, pause there, lean
into this part of the story, say it like this,
like she is almost rehearsing a play on stage, and

(28:38):
then you see like the dancers come in for rehearsal,
all this sort of stuff. It's also revealed, which I
thought was quite cute and interesting, that her very best
friend from childhood, Lauren, who has been a big part
of the Caller Daddy universe since the early days of Sophia,
has always kind of like been in her stories. She
has come on the podcast many times. I feel like
I know so much about her story from being Alex

(28:58):
Cooper's childhood best friend. But all they've ever said is
like Lauren is like a psychology student and then they
grew up together. But that's all we've ever heard, and
then it was revealed on the documentary she's actually the
producer of Call Her Daddy, and they deliberately have kept
it a secret for a long time because they didn't
want Well, she actually says why they didn't say why.
I wanted to ask you.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Because I was like, did they miss it?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
No? No, No, I thought that too. I like paused
it and I was like, she's like, because Alex says
like Lauren is the producer of Call Her Daddy, She's
the head, she's the beating heart of it. And I
was like, wow, is that new. That's really interesting. You
guys have never seen that before. And then she goes,
we've deliberately never said this before. Yeah, and then it
just stops.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
I think it's something to do with like the nepotism
aspect of the podcast, because she obviously has become and
she says it in the podcast, she's become this such
a big thing to almost like a list celebrity level.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Well, she comes out during the live show, yeah yeah,
and everyone knows her and loves her and cheers for
her Lauren, but now Alex is so so big that
which I'm sure every celebrity does only has a handful
of people who they can really trust and have close
to them.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
And I think having Lauren there because she was such
a big part of the content of Call Her Daddy,
like going on dates and stuff like that, like providing
content that I think it might have been hard for
audience to take all of that in while also knowing
she's a producer on the show.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah. Yeah, I think maybe it was to really protect
the storytelling part of their friendship, which has become such
a big show part of the show.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
And it would be immediately like if she announced Lauren,
everyone would be like, oh, Sophia's replacement.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
And the fact that Lauren.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Was there even from Sophia's days is also really interesting
to me because she hits Sophia's replexments.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
I mean, I don't think it's still ever be like
a co host or anything like that. She's very much
behind the scenes. But yeah, I think it's interesting that
they're so aware of the perception of like friendship and
business and what their audience wants that they thought it
wasn't the right time to introduce that.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
And also because it like that exact formula failed the
first time. Yeah, so they probably just want to keep
it chill.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Seeing only a reveal that only a few of us
cared about, like huge, Everyone's like, Okay, there's one part
of this, the behind the scenes tour, that I actually
didn't think they'd show, And I think it's really interesting
that they did. And I think it's probably only showing
us the side of Alex Cooper that they alluded to.
But I think it's probably like quite a big part
of her personality because if you watch her content and

(31:19):
you listen to her podcast, especially like her solo episodes,
which I actually think I like a lot of her
solo episodes better than me.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Show, it feels like the og call her dad.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
That's a great storyteller. Yeah, I've listened to that girl
talk for an hour about a train trip. She went on.
Excellent content, top tier. So if she always paints herself
in a way of like and I wonder if this
is like an overflow from like Sophia branding her like
a devil to work with kind of thing in a
backstat but she always really brands herself as like easy.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
To work with.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
I do this, people hear this, but very much like
I do everything myself. But I'm really understanding. I'm easy
to work with, I'm a girl's girl, all these things,
which is which is also potentially all true. But then
when you see her in that moment, be like almost
like the star of the show. And what happens to
the star of the show, not the boss or the
creator when things go to shit pretty much because there's

(32:09):
a scene where it's a few days out from the
live show. They haven't been able to run it all
the way through yet, all the text breaking down, she
can't do a full rehearsal, no one knows what's going on,
but things are falling apart. Yeah, and you see her
sitting with her like little gang backstage away from like
the full time production stuff, and she just kind of
loses it a bit, which also fair enough at that
stage of the game, I would be screaming at people. Yeah,

(32:32):
like I hate that about myself, but I would have
lost it much earlier because you hear her saying like,
I have to be able to run this show once
at least before we go to stage. What is everyone doing?
Why is it broken? Why is it like this? And
that's just the side of her we haven't seen before.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, And then when her stage production manager.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Oh my god, what was Brad?

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Wasn't Prad?

Speaker 3 (32:52):
John John John John John, who is literally the person
which I'm like, surely there should be at least two
people doing this job. But he is like the stage
production manager, as in like he's the one that if
he's not there, the show can't go ahead. He's the
one who gives everyone their cues. He's like in charge
of like the lightning, the music, Like he's the one
on the microphone telling lights go, music go. Alex Goes

(33:16):
is keeping everything, keeping everything together on the timeline and
he has a burnout moment and he wants to quit again.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
We are all we are all John in that moment,
and he wants to quit the day before I know
the show's going on the day and he's just like
again relatable. Actually, I just want to hold Jockey series
on John because I've never related to anyone so much.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
The storyline for that was so funny to me because
it was obviously John is going through it, obviously, but
the way they made it like this dramatic storytelling.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I benefited Alex Coopery.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
That Ben made her look so good.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
If this happened to any other person, they'd end up
seeing of some company like it made.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Her look so good. So basically John is like telling people.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
He's going to burn out, blah blah blah. Alex wasn't
here for the original conversation.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
She's somewhere else. She's heard it through the grape.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
She goes, it's such a funny things, like where's John.
They're like, but I'm sure he's here. They're like, and
she's like, no, but where is?

Speaker 2 (34:17):
It turns into a horror movie.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
She's like, where the fuck is Where's John? Where's John?
And then someone's like, so he's actually leaving and she's like,
just tell me, just tell me, And then she goes fine,
and she's like, I need to find Matt.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
I need to find Matt because he's having like a
big boy talk. She finds John, he's having this big womaning.
She storms into the meetings. She's like, what's going on?
And they're trying not to tell her because I also think, also,
like you said, being the talent, like if I was
in that situation, I would also probably try not to
tell her because like she has to go on stage tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
They're trying to sort of keep her calms, yeah, and
fix the problem.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, And she's like, I already know about John. What
do I do? What do I do?

Speaker 3 (34:48):
And she's like should I talk to him? And they're like, yeah,
go talk to him? But it's felt like something that
you would tell a little kid.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
And I'm like, yeah, go try talk, Like would you
ever talk to John? And she's like yes, like and
also preferably before he leaves, and then.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
She like talks to John.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
She's like, no cameras, no cameras, but the camera's obviously there.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
The cameras, Oh no, you can't see them. So it's
like John and alex a behind audio and they went.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
To the camera. John, you actually went into a podcast studio.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
It's all perfectly miked, but it's really what I was
coming around. And then she he's saying to her like
I can't do this anymore, like I'm burnt it, I
can't do it. This place is basically saying, not only
am I stressed and busy and I can't do this,
this place is toxic and some stuff has happened, and
she's going to him, I'm so sorry, we need you.
What can we do? I didn't know this was happening.
If I'd known, I would have done something like really intense.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Really intense, And the whole thing was that like she
was saying I can't do this without you. I can't
do this without you, which I believe, which high one
hundred percent believe, but the way it said, it sounds
like that you are so important that we can't do
it without you, when it.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Was actually a literal statement.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, it was literally like like the actual show wouldn't
go on without you.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
And I think it was just.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Like one of those moments and even like that little
bit at the end where he was like, Okay, I'll
continue doing it, like I'm going to continue working here,
and then someone like yells on stage, hey John, where's
the tape? And she's like, Nope, don't ask on, I'll
do it.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, and they basically want him to want him John
to like move furniture and she's like, don't ask John,
I'll do it. I'm like, he watched his back and
that's not his name.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
I'm so sorry John, he does Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
And I don't even care about today because next time
I'm in a tough situation, I'm gonna be like, what
would would John do? Exactly make a T shirt? I'm
gonna go cry in the cupboard and get upset, and
then I'm gonna come out and do my job, which
is what we do here. Everything.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
We're going to tell everyone we're quitting the day before
and then come out and be like I'm going.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
To stay a get meet every time the school gets
we see her come out on stage, and you see
the tour and everything and that the tour is super successful,
very epic. And on the tour, she goes to Boston
and she goes back to Boston University, which was the
college she went to, and this is where a story
comes out, probably the only story that's in the documentary

(37:07):
that she's never told on her podcast before.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
She went to university on a soccer scholarship because she
was a brilliant player all throughout childhood. She was like
representing the US in different countries. So she got this
massive scholarship, which is very rare to get for sport,
and she went to play on the soccer team for
Boston And what she really liked about she was saying
the soccer team was that the coach was a woman. Yes,

(37:32):
and she's had so much experience with different coaches, but
she's like, rarely worked with women, and she found that
really really exciting to do.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yes. She alleges in the documentary that the coach of
her soccer team, this woman, sexually harassed her for years.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
For years, to the point where Alex was calling up
her mom and telling her mom all the awful things
that were happening, the point that she didn't even want
to play anymore, that she was trying to avoid the
coach as much as possible. One of her teammates, who
was also really good friends with her, got kicked off
the team, and it was alleged that the coach told
Alex that this is what happens when you don't listen

(38:08):
to me, absolutely awful things. Then her parents, who I
think are like literally the best parents. Yeah, her mom
said that she wrote down every single thing Alex told
her every time she called her up crying, and she
had like this full book of notes, every allegation, every allegation.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
And they went to I think it was.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
The sporting director. They went to the hire you were
running a sporting program with the scholarships and everything.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
And they went into the meeting room.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
It was like her mom, her dad and Alex and
her mom gave them the book and was like, this
is everything that my daughter has said that has happened
to her.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
What are you going to do about it? And they
just said, what do you want?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, and they pretty much said, this is what she
alleged in the documentary that they told her that they
were not going to fire the coach but she could
keep her scholarship.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, which is and there's just watching the build up
to that moment, you kind of know watching it how
it's going to end up, because we know that she
didn't graduate playing soccer. But it is very devastating, and
especially when she sets up the story as you're saying
of like I was part of this team and I
love them, and I was so excited to have a
feene male coach, and then when she talked at the
coach sexually harassing her, I've got to say, this is
where like my own bias shows because I was really

(39:17):
surprised when she said it was the female coach, Like
I immediately when I first heard this is part of
the documentary, I just assumed it was a male coach
who sexually harassed her, which statistically is more likely, but
it can one hundred percent happen with a man or
a woman, and she also says that it was almost
hard to pinpoint her allegations of sexual harassment at the time,
because she alleges that and again they say all this

(39:39):
in the documentary, but we're saying alleged because that's the
correct time to use when you're talking about this sort
of stuff. She alleges in the documentary that the when
they were watching training and playing videos back, which is
very common thing with athletes to fill them and watch
back later like go through technique, that there'd be so
much close up footage of Alex and that the coach
would be like, look at her legs, look at her hair,
like how she moves She yeah, all that sort of stuff,

(40:00):
she alleges, and that as time went on, her coach
would like really drill her about her dating and her
sex life and also try and make rules about who
she could have sex with, but also wanting the information.
She alledges that her coach would say inappropriate things to her,
touch her really horrific allegations, and she was just so
kind of torn because she loved playing soccer so much,

(40:20):
and at the same time, she was like, if I
say anything about this behavior, which is also it's one
of those things where like it sounds so awful as
I'm listening it like that it is awful, but I
could also imagine if you're that person, it's hard to
prove it's what had happened, Like I'm sure of This
young girl in college is also like, but if I
tell the people who in charge, are they gonna believe me?
I thought that was really interesting hearing Alex sort of

(40:42):
recount what happened in that meeting. So, yeah, she's saying
her mum has written everything down. She's saying her dad
was yelling at them, like what are you going to do?
You have to do something, do something, And she said
that she just at that point she realized that things
were escalating and they were never gonna get any better.
So she just said to them, like, what's the bottom
line deal? What can you give us? And I thought
that was a really interesting nodche like the business woman
that she's become, Like she cut through it all and

(41:03):
was just like, we're going around in circles like you
want something, I want something. What's your bottom line deal?
And it was keep the scholarship and leave the soccer team,
which is the deal they took and then they say
that when they got out to the car, she just
burst into tears.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah over it.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
And I was also really shocked of how blatant it
was that she says in the documentary, this woman sexually
harassed me. She says her name, and then she shows
all these video photos of her and says, this is her,
this is what she did. She did that Noel allegedly
know nothing, And like that's a big swing.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
It's a big swing, and it's like telling right, Like
it's telling that what she's saying is the truth because
she's we have.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
To say, allegedly, it's in the documentary.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
It's in the documentary, and there's so strong and it's
such a big storyline in the documentary, and it's like
it's also the one story that everyone's writing about.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, because I guess it was the big reveil that
we didn't know and the other interesting thing. So the
documentary came out this week. I watched it the night
it came out, like glued to the screen. The next morning,
Call Her Daddy popped up in my pocast feed and
it was an episode from Alex, a really quick solo
episode explaining why she had finally decided to tell that
story and why she decided to put it in the documentary,

(42:19):
and the reveal is pretty heartbreaking.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
I kept going back and forth, back and forth to
tell the world would happen, to not talk about it?

Speaker 1 (42:28):
What do I do?

Speaker 5 (42:30):
But then something happened where I immediately knew, without a doubt,
that it was time for me to speak up. Towards
the end of filming this documentary, new information came to light.
I found out that other women had stepped onto that
same field and experienced the same harassment I did. I

(42:55):
discovered that the abuse and trauma I had been subjected
to at Boston University was still actively happening on that
campus in twenty twenty five after I left.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
That is so messed up? Is that sobering? It's so heartbreaking.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Like even that scene when she goes back to Boston
University and is like looking at the football field and
she starts crying and she literally said, like this was
all taken away from me.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
This is true.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
It was literally taken away from me. And she wasn't
just like a player, like she was one of the
star players. And I don't know heaps about soccer, but
I know a little bit, but she was like kicking,
like David Beckham strikes and it's like she was making
goals and she was like striking, and like she would
do like press interviews for this, like she.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Was so so good.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
And when a kid, especially in the US, is on
like a sporting scholarship, it's like that's their future made, yeah,
like because then they get into the big leagues and
then they just have this massive, massive career. And the
fact that like that was pulled from her over something
that was completely not her fault at all is so
messed up.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, I have a lot of respect for her for
sharing that, but it also, you know, a lot of
what she wanted to show in this documentary was her
advocacy for women, and you see her go and like
talk to people who are like protesting against abortion, and
you hear the mechanics of why she decided to interview
Karma House and why she decided to go into that

(44:23):
knowing she would get backlash, and she was just like,
it's not a political issue now, It's become an issue
for women and what they want to vote for and
all of these different things. So I thought it was
definitely a time and the story she wanted to tell,
but very difficult in terms of talking about building her empire.
The other interesting thing that we hadn't seen before, I mean,

(44:43):
we'd seen she did a whole episode on it, We
saw the Vogue stories, we saw the videos and photos,
was her wedding to Matt Kaplan. But we okay, maybe
I've led you astray with like something. Do you hate
this man because of what I've said to you?

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Oh? No, okay, Okay, well this is how rumors start. Okay,
let me caveat this. So you see a video from
their wedding and you see their vows and all these
a bit more intimate than we saw in the profile,
all the podcasts that she did about her wedding, and
the interesting thing about her even being married that she's
talked about too, is that for such a long time,
her whole shtick was like the wild single sex girl,

(45:21):
Like she was out in the world and she had
all these different like men that she'd have these like
torrid relationships and affairs with who all went by like covenanmes,
like some shady and stuff, and you hear her sex stories,
and that was like the basis for her online persona
for the podcast all those things, and then so it
was quite shocking for her audience a couple of years
ago when she admitted and I say admitted because it

(45:42):
did sound like she was admitting something. And I was like,
because I was listening a podcast, like what does this
girl killed someone? Like, she's really like being like, I
have to tell you guys something, and it's she was
in a serious relationship and she had essentially moved from
New York to Los Angeles to be with this man
who she'd met on a business call and had called
and for a long time, we didn't know his name,
didn't see his face or anything. He was just mister
sexy zoom Man.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yes, missus sexy zoom Man. And then it came out
that he was actually well known.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Okay, this is all you want to talk about. Okay.
They met on the zoom they fell in love. Basically,
she was shopping around like call her Daddy's like a
TV show and stuff. And the way she frames it
is really interesting because there's obviously a very specific way
that she wants us to see their love story, which
I get. It's like your story, You're like, this is
how it happened, this is how I want you to sit.
And so she talks to them going out to a
business dinner and they're sitting at the table and she's

(46:31):
being Alex Cooper call her daddy. She's like flirting and
being silly and she's being like and this is my
wildest story and this is that, and she's doing all
this stuff. This is how she recounts it. And he
said to her like, basically, they've heard some advice, and
is like, I don't think that this like big. I
think it's a reality TV show. I don't think this
is the way for you to go. And I don't
think our company is going to pick this up. I

(46:52):
would just do your podcast, do this and that, and
she said the moment he said that, she was like okay,
and she just flipped back into being like her normal self.
And he was like, what just happened? Well, where did
that person again? I wasn't at this fancy dinner. This
is the way she tells it. And he was like
what just happened? And she was like, well, you're not
going to buy it, so I don't have to be
like a podcast host, like I'm just being myself now.

(47:13):
And then they fell in love and like had a while,
look up that night, and they've been together ever since.
And it's kind of interesting because she went from being
like the ultimate kind of single girl to being like
in the most at least forward facing, beautiful home, two dogs,
loving marriage, very very homey, very homey and traditional and

(47:35):
stuff and everything, and like, I don't think it's alien
in her audience at all, but it's definitely not.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
She had to be strategic with it, yeah, which she was,
I think.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
And that's the thing about the documentary is that, like
I always knew that were business partners. They have a
company together, and their company has produced like TV shows
and things like Separate to Call Her Daddy, which is
a whole other franchise that I think she really runs.
But their business, I don't know, you kind of see
him behind the scenes, like it's like he's running it.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yeah, And I feel like when they talk about their business,
you can almost see like some sort of like regret
or embarrassment about the early Call Her Daddy date, like
in ways where she was like I used to like
talk about sex and blah blah blah, and now I
want to like have like actual interviews and things like that.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And I'm like, there was a purpose for that pot like.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah, that wasn't bad. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
I mean like, I'm embarrassed about my first podcast, but
that's me.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yes, maybe that's just the thing. Every it's like your
first pancake, your first podcast.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
But I'm like, if she didn't have that, she wouldn't
have this. And I think and I think just obviously
she has a husband now, and even like in certain
times where she's like talking to a friend or to
the camera saying like, oh my voice hers, I'll just
tell everyone that I just gave like a really crazy
blow job last night, and she didn't realize that Matt
was standing right behind.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
And she's like, oh my god, yeah, and then he
like tries to make her. I don't know, it's fine.
I just don't. I don't know anything.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
How does it give me the eck?

Speaker 1 (48:58):
I don't know. Maybe because she's so gushy about him,
which is she loves, loves, She's so gushy about him
on the podcast that it makes me suspicious because I
was like, he's like a perfect man in the way
she talks about him. She is ideal loving, He's a unicorn.
To go back to the materialist, he is the most

(49:20):
loving man. He is so supportive, he is so emotionally
evolved and tuned. He only cares about her. She can
tell him anything. And maybe that's all true, but it
just it's.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
So to the point, like girls were coming to her
shows with signs going I want to find my math,
like I want to find my mister sexy Zoom.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
But she was so worried about letting her audience down,
about not being a single girl anymore, she had to
almost create this man who sounds like too good to
be true to justify walking away from that audience in
a way.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I didn't even put that together.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
And she's mate, I mean, he sounds like a freaking robot,
that's what he sounds like.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
But we also know he's not that he's not the
perfect man.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Oh, I mean we don't know that, Emily. Here's what
we do know. We just know on what you're saying.
Like she Hearsn'm saying the thing about he hears her
saying thing about the blowjob, and he was like, oh,
everyone thinks I'm getting all these blowjobs, Like that's not
what's happening. And it's kind of a joke about like
everyone thinks I'm married to this sex goddess, but we're
actually we're just mostly business partners. We're a wholesome, celibate

(50:20):
well who are like working around the clock to like
make money and stuff. They I mean, how would you
kind of say that he's been married before and that
doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
It doesn't matter that he's married before.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
It's more the type of woman this man goes for,
which is fine, Emily, everyone has a type. I feel
like I've accidentally demonized this man with my gossip and
that you've taken this the wrong way, okay, because we
just know that he's a Hollywood you know man, he's
a Hollywood executive. He comes from what I can tell
like a very very wealthy family. And he also has

(50:52):
a very specific type, which is blue eyed, fair blonde
women with a very specific face structure. Fine, everyone has
a type. So he dated Ashley Olson. Yeah, he stated
a few of the blondes that are not even Mary
Kay Mary Kayette. He saw the awesome twins and he's

(51:13):
like that one, that's my one. He was also married
to Claire Holt. He was married actress Claire hold who
would know from H two O just but more importantly
as Rebecca from both The Vampire Diaries and the Original Originals.
Love Claire Hope Holt, great actress, Love her. They were
married and I don't know what happened, but it ended

(51:33):
in divorce. I've heard whispers that didn't end well. I
don't know. I'm not going to speculate, but we sometimes
do take the woman's side, just because history teaches us
that that's what we should do. It was just so
funny looking at their wedding and just being like that
she's such like a mirror image of Claire. Hole is
that what you.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Woreman were saying, Yes, Yes, that's exactly what I wanted
to say.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Thank you. I just again, I don't think it makes
their marriage any less romantic and lovely that he was
married before.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
It's just really interesting because it's one of those things
where I feel like if we didn't say it, and
we don't say it, then it's just something that never
get said because it's always And I hate to bring
this like down to race because I know I'm gonna
get so many hate comments.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Fine, but from the spillers, not some of who listen
to this pot the outside outside world is evil.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
But like we never ever talk about like white people
who only ever date white people who look the same.
But like if I were to date, like if I
were to marry a man who's all previous girlfriends had
been like Indian brown skin, that would be something everyone's
talking about.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
D And so just a caviat I only know of
his blond girlfriends. Maybe there's others. I actually don't know
every woman this man has dated. I just know like
the big public ones.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I just found it really interesting, like the whole way,
Like it just felt very business y to me.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
I was trying to think of why I found it
because of like.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
They're not very cuddly or like cutie or like together.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
But again they're very private, like she didn't even show
his face for like such long time they were dating.
I try and think about why I'm suspicious of this situation.
And I think I'm suspicious of it because again it's
been framed as such a fairy tale and I'm sure
it's all fine, But I think it's because she is
such an open book on so many things, and I
feel like I know so much about her life and

(53:17):
so much about her history and what she thinks and things,
and she really prides herself on talking about the really
uncomfortable things. Maybe it's a respect thing for his past marriage.
Maybe they're just like she's like, it's not my story
to tell, and I don't expect her to come on
and be like, here's what my ex husband and his
wife broke up. But I just think it's interesting of
like talking about I found my forever person and we
waited so long for each other and this and I

(53:40):
even hate myself for the way I'm talking now, like
I know this sounds bad, just to say I just
think it's interesting. That would be such a rich I'm
just gonna say it. It would be such a rich
podcast topic to have her discuss the fact that she's
full and head over heels in love with this man
and they are so in love and they're so together,
to the fact that they spend all their time together
because they live together, they're in love, they spend all

(54:02):
their time together, they have a business together. And to
know what it's like that he was in that high
profile relationship in a way where everyone saw him do
this with someone else, and what is that like to
have even just to have the public scrutiny of that
out there and people looking at your wedding photos, being like, oh, well,
Clar's dressers like this, or this person was like this,

(54:23):
or like his vows the same as he said to
her when they had their big wedding. Do you know
what I mean. It's just yeah, it's an interesting choice.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
It's an interesting choice, and I feel like he is
more involved now since the podcast has moved so drastically
from the original Call Her Daddy to a more interview based,
like polished version of Call a Day, I do kind
of like I'm not enjoying the new version of Call
Her Daddy as.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Much like I feel you blame Matt Kaplan.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
No, I don't blame Matt Kaplan. I'm like removing Matt
Chaplin from this conversation. But I wanted to quickly touch
on like the biggest change, which is like moving to
the interview base, because I think she has like a huge,
huge platform, which is the reason why so many massive
celebrities want to be interviewed by her pig. I could
literally propel their career, especially for such a young generation,

(55:14):
a young generation of women that so many other media
organizations and interviewers aren't able to hone into. And I
think that's the main reason why, Like she's got Kamala Harris,
she's got Hayley Bieber, She's got like all of these
like massive celebrities. But I actually think she should have
had someone else interviewing them. Not because I think it's
it's a whole podcast, but I think it's exactly what

(55:36):
you said. She's a great talker, she's a great storyteller,
but I do think now that she's in that role,
she does have a level of responsibility that she hasn't undertaken,
especially with choosing the guests that she talks about and
the guest that she interviews. I read this sub stec
recently written by Shanda Daniels, and the headline like just
completely pulled me in. It was Alex Cooper, please interview

(55:56):
one Black Girl. And in it she did, like this
full analysis of every guest Alex has had in the
past year based on demographics, and she said, I tracked
every guest called her Daddy has had over the last
one hundred and fifty three episodes and the results aren't
what I expected. There worse so, in one hundred and
fifty three episodes, she had one hundred and sixty four guests,

(56:18):
sixty eight.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Percent of the guests were white women. The second most
interviewed demographic is white men. Yes, there were more white
women interviewed. There were more white men.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
Interviewed for a podcast centering women than black women or
women of color. Both these demographics represent only eight percent
of guests.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
That's quite bad.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
It is so bad.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Are just so bad to position yourself as a woman,
like for other women in charge of like female empowerment,
like breaking glass ceilings, like being like that old school
girl boss, like actually making out in the world, and
yet you are profiling more white men than you are
of women of color as a fuller demographic. It's just
so disheartening to see.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
That's just such an incredible take from that writer, because
it's something that with all eyes being on call her daddy,
and all eyes being on Alice Cooper and the legacy
that she's built and her spot deal and her Serious
deal and how much money she's made and she's been
in all these huge publications have profiled her. There's an
entire documentary about her that's been in production for years,

(57:20):
and that not one person has pointed that out until now,
or they if they have, it hasn't like kind of
it hasn't escalated to like the higher media realms where
it's been covered.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
It's just one of those things where like, whenever I
see something like this, you do kind of like get
snapped back into reality. And yes, she is super brilliant
and super talented, but she's also extremely beautiful, she's extremely successful,
she has a lot of money, she had an amazing childhood,
and I think it's really hard to take all of

(57:49):
that away and just say that this person was just
really smart, which is how they got there.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
It's so interesting. It's like she's taken a page from
like Taylor Swift's playbook, where she is this ideal that
you could hate, this white, blonde, beautiful, thin, rich woman,
the same as Taylor Swift, who has got this legion
of fans world wide to fall so completely in love
with their messaging and to take their personal wins as

(58:17):
a global win for women when it's just personal. It's
like a tailor slips and again, these women are doing
business like that's totally fine, that's what you should be
doing in that area. But like when Taylor's We've got
her Master's back, so many women celebrated like they had won.
They're like this is a win for women, and it's like,
it's a win for this.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
It's a win for one woman.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
It's a win for one very very rich woman, which
I mean, yes, artist rights and all that very important.
It's good to shine a light on that. But like,
at the end of the day, a lot of Taylor slips,
wins are for her. Yeah, it's for her money and
her success. And Alex Cooper has somehow managed to harness
that same way of thinking, where all of those women
who are like, oh my god, she got a boulty

(58:54):
million dollar Spotify deal. That's a win for women, and
she's bought this huge house a win for women, and
she's released this and she's making this much money. It's like,
that's for us. Yeah, It's like it's not it's just a.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
It's just a win. It's because of a man. Did
It's not like a win for men. It's like, it's
just a win.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
And it's hard because I do respect these women, and
I do think they are really interesting and I think
there is something to celebrate about the fact that a
female podcast host has been this successful. I think it
is something to celebrate and I have a lot of
respect for her, But It is that kind of underlying
thing of like, it's only this one type of woman, woman,
this rich, white, blonde, thin woman who rises to these

(59:30):
ranks and gets all these other women. There's so much
power in that getting other women to think that your
personal gain is their personal gain. Yeah it's not wow wow,
but yeah, we'll link that substack in our show notes.
I think it's really important to read. And I would say, like, again,
there's a lot of wine and shade here, there's a
lot of good moments. Call her Alex is an incredible documentary.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
I was hooked to that TV.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
I would go watch It's on Disney. It's two episodes.
It's so worth watching.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
It's so well produced and created.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
And this is sort of documentary. This is what it's
meant to do. You're meant to watch it and then
have these conversations and see different things and question things
and dislike some things and cheer for other things. Like
that's what a good documentary is. It's not meant to
be like a girl.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
I want to watch it again, watching rays and be like,
we know what's going on here. But also, if you're great,
thank you so much for listening to the spill today.
Do not forget to follow us on TikTok at The
Spill podcast. The Spill is produced by Manicia Swirren with
sound production by Scott Stronik. MoMA Mea Studios are Style
with furniture from Fenton and Fenton. Visit Fenton and Fentin
dot com dot au and we'll be back here on

(01:00:34):
your podcast feed at three pm on Monday.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Bye bye