December 16, 2025 • 48 mins
The time has come. The first season of Ryan Murphy’s legal drama Alls Fair has come to an end and we desperately need to talk about it.For better or worse (and a lot of people will say worse) this has been one of the most talked about shows of the year, after dismal viewers and then record breaking audience numbers.So now we need to honestly critique Kim Kardashian’s acting performance in her first lead role and dissect the scenes in this over the top drama that had us both screaming and laughing (and not always for the right reasons).From the glorious fashion, to the significance of the guest stars and the award winning actresses who actually came through, here’s everything we can finally say about Alls Fair.
If you or anyone you know needs to speak with an expert, please contact 1800 RESPECT (1800 737 732) — the National Sexual Assault, domestic and Family Violence Counselling Service.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Amma mea podcast from Mamma Mia. Welcome
to the Spill, your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura
Brodneg and today I'm joined by I'm Free Player. I'm
the executive producer of Muma MIA's interview podcast No Filter,
(00:31):
and just a bit of a pop culture addict. Which
is why you're here today, because today we have a
very important, brutally honest review. Because love it or hate it,
we are talking about the show that has really shaped
pop culture this year, Broken Records. People hate it, people
love it, and that is the Ryan Murphy series. All's fair.
You're the first divorce lawyers in town. I need you
(00:54):
to tell us the whole story. We were in love,
it was all perfect, except for this one small thing.
I trusted him. How did this ever happened to me? Men?
They are terrified of women in power. Thank God. I
(01:15):
love my job and I think it's interesting to say
people love it or hate it because you can also
love it and hate it, yes, which we will get
into that. So the show has come to an end.
It's already been renewed for a second season, so it's
going to come back again. Surprise, It's Glory. It's going
to come back again. So this is a brutally honest review,
which if you haven't listened to one before, we go
(01:36):
through the ins and outs of the whole show. We
do opinions, we do behind the scenes facts. We're also
going to talk about the finale, so spoilers if you
haven't seen it. I mean, the numbers don't lie. A
lot of people watch this show, but I wonder how
many people watched all the way to the end. Yeah,
I agree. I mean, to be fair, I hadn't watched
it all way to the end until we were like, okay,
(01:56):
let's talk about it. So last night I crammed the
last three apps. I'm always interested in this. So would
you have watched it? Okay, you would. Yeah, it's just
you know, this time of year, it's hard, this so
much going on, there's a lot of TV. But also
I also think it's fair for people who say no,
because I think this is what I said when the
show came out, like the big numbers at the start
was very impressive, but I would have been more impressed
(02:16):
if the numbers, how the numbers stayed, which they kind
of did. So talking about sort of getting into how
this show came to be and how all the forces
of the world came together to see Kim kartashe in
a legal drama. She starred an American horror story Delicate
from twenty twenty three to twenty twenty fours. That was
the last American horror story season. Did you watch that?
Are you an American horror story fans make so much
(02:37):
to catch it on, so much to catch up on.
I am such an American horror story fan, but like
a purist. Oh sure, I know exactly what you mean.
So did I watch the Kim k seasons? No? And
that's fair because they were not good. But actually I
don't believe it was her fault. It was not a
good season. No, And they also, to be fair, were
(03:00):
not good for a few seasons before. Yeah, the lead
up before that was kind of disappointing. And I mean,
the thing is they've come from the highest of highs.
Is that I really think that Ryan Murphy does make
excellent television. I know some people trash Glee. That's good
storytelling was great first obviously kind of peed off towards
the end season one excellent storytelling American horror story. Some
(03:21):
of those seasons are some of the best seasons of
television I've ever seen, absolutely, like each of the first
like five, Yeah, basically until Jessica Lang left. And that's
not even just Jessica leaving was what made it not great.
That's when the stories went sow Ten Asylum, Coven Oven
(03:43):
So Good Evening and Lady Gaga for Hotel like there
was still yes exactly, and so Ryan Murphy, I think,
like why he gravitated towards Kim Kutashi and makes a
lot of sense. Like I've heard a lot of people
be like, you know, he's this incredible filmmaker and TV maker,
and he does make prestige TV like American Crime Story
and the Upcoming American Love Story, and he makes for
this incredible TV as much as it is kind of
(04:04):
often like campy and smutty and stuff like that. But
I understand his like attraction to Kim Kardashin because he
also very famously as much as he loves murder and drama,
he loves like Americana, and he loves pop culture, and
he loves people who are at the pinnacle of fame
and glammur and like that's very much Kim so I
can understand why he saw her and was like, I
need to like add her to my collection. Yes, yeah,
(04:27):
I agree, And like, let's not forget that he did
Screen Queens right, which was so like incredible great, But
like I remember when he did that. I know Ariana
had done TV before, but it was kid TV. But
he kind of he does pick like pop culture icons
at the time and pop them in a show. And
I remember when she was cast in that show, people
were like, oh, that's weird, Ariana Brande's in it. So
(04:49):
he does, as you say, like pick cultural phenomenons and
put them in his shows. Yeah. The slight difference here
and this is not slight towards Kim is like Lady
Gaga hadn't done like a huge amount of acting when
she went into Horror Story, but she was really great,
yes as the sexy evil vampire. And then Ariana Grinder
was great in Screen Queens, and then Kim Kardashian proven
(05:10):
to be great. So they are both now legitimate actresses. Yes,
Oscar worthy actress, Yeah, both of them. Yeah, Kim Kardashan,
there was no because few people were sort of saying like, oh,
maybe he's seeing something that we can't see, No, he wasn't.
He was just seeing fame because she can't act. I
think even she would say that, But I think it
was the allure of her because he just wanted to
put her in something so badly, Because you know, he
(05:31):
initially pitched that her and Chris Jenner, he pitched a
reality show. He's like, I've never seen a pitch. When
he was telling the storyback seen a pitch tank so badly,
they just both lost interested in what he was saying
straight away. Kim picked up her phone and Chris was like,
what else you got? And that's when he pitched All's Fair,
which is kind of built around the idea of obviously
Kim going through this really high profile divorce, but also
(05:53):
off the back of Laura Wosso, who is a very
high profile yeah, divorce attorney and has represented Kim a
few times. Yeah, she's certainly think she's given her a
bit of work. Yeah, which she will be the first
one to make that John like, that's what I love
about Kim Kardashian, that she's the first one. She's always
been good at laughing at herself. Yeah. Yeah. And so
it was very much of Ryan Murphy kind of seeing
(06:13):
Kim Kardashian, Okay, she doesn't want to do any more
reality and kind of why would she. They've got the
Kardashians already on Hulu a second show about her if
she did that prison reform show. But I can't see
her branching off to do a spinoff reality show about herself.
It's not really the brand, no exactly, and they've you know,
they've tried that in the past, and they've never really
worked as well as their core show. Yeah exactly. Oh yeah,
(06:35):
obviously they had all like the Take Miami's Take New
Yorks and stuff, but that was a very different time.
And so that's why Ryan Murphy came up with All's
Fair as a way to kind of take Kim going
through law school. And he's like, what if in an
alternate timeline, Kim Kardashian, who then becomes a Laura Grant,
actually went to law school and became a lawyer, and
what would that look like of her being in this
high profile like sexy persona, which is how the show
(06:58):
the show came about. And then he assembled like, yeah,
the most incredible of like female movie stars, So yes,
getting onto our core cast. I know a lot about
the show made crazy headlines as it was coming out,
so just the trailer alone became the biggest ever in
like twenty four hours for Hulu. It did like fifty
(07:20):
seven million views in the first day, and it actually
beat out the season three trailer of The Kardashians, which
was their former highest numbers. So Kim's like, really, she's
competing against herself, really there for the numbers on Hulu.
And then after all the terrible reviews came out for
the first episode of All's Fair, a lot of people
giving it as zero and a lot of people saying
(07:41):
it's the worst thing they've ever seen. Then the audience
numbers were huge and it became the highest scripted premiere
in three years. And a lot of that initial media
attention came when the cast list was announced, because this
cast list insane, insane, insane. We've got Nami Watts as
Liberty Ronson. I must say, my favorite thing about this
show is all the names, which I actually struggled to
(08:03):
keep track of all their names. They're all sound like
fake names. They do all sound like fake names, which
is fabulous and so can and so fitting of this show.
But throughout it, I just in my head was calling
them Naomi, you know, yeah, of coltca. Well, the thing
is sometimes they were really going in and out of
just being themselves and being characters. So yes, we have
Kim Kardashian as a Lura Grant. Yes, And every time
they said a Lura, I'm just like, I just don't
(08:23):
believe that's her name. To be honest with Luus, yeah,
that's what we are. They Nami Watson as Liberty Ronson,
who was playing a British woman. She kind of swung
in and out of Bakay. Do you sounding Australian? Yeah,
as well. I know, Well the first two episodes, I
was trying to understand what her accent was meant to be.
I thought she was Australian but sounded like an Australian
(08:44):
who'd been living in London. But Naomi doesn't live in London.
She lives in New York. So was really confused. And
then later it's apparent because it becomes a running Joe
yeah that she's British. I was like, oh, Naomi, not
your best word. She lived in Austraia for a long time,
but she's originally from the UK. But she came from
the UK to Australia, I think at like fourteen, so
she did drop her accent and it was Australian. But
(09:04):
then in the show they also use it as a
weird pop point about how she's just a bit on
the outer because she's British. British. I'm like, literally, not,
that's not the reason. That's do you really think you're
best friends of ten years and your other fellow lawyers
every song and they're gonna leave you other lip because like,
you know what, she's British, Like, it's it's not it's
not a plot point. The plot point of this show.
I do love and we'll get to that. Then we
(09:25):
had Nissi Nash as Emerald Green. Epic Emerald Green. It's
so funny, Loud, I know, well, it sounds like a
Cludo character. It's so funny. It just sounds like a
fake day that you'd make up if you were like
thinking and you're like Emerald Green. I mean, I guess,
like you look at a paint chip on the wall,
(09:45):
you see that it was giving like George Glass, Yeah, yeah,
exactly exactly that vibe. But I guess she carrolls it off.
She does feel like an Emerald Tiana Taylor as Milan.
That name sounded fair. It doesn't sound like a name
that she potentially gave herself once she moved to La,
which is a backstory I invented for her. Yeah, I
love that it works. And then Glenn Close as Dina Standish.
(10:06):
I feel like we the ball that one. Yeah, Dina fine.
They were like, we'll give the older woman a kind
of older sounding again, and I didn't need to happen. No, Yeah,
but at least they didn't give her like a real
older sounding name. She was a normal, yea god, norma
brown or something. And then my favorite name of the
entire series, Sarah Paulson as Carrington Lane. So Harrington Lane
(10:29):
is the best name, and that name out of all
of them, sounds like that's her name. That sounds like
that character's real name, Carrington Lane. Yeah. Yeah, And everyone
calling her car car just sounded like a fantastic No.
But I couldn't keep track of their names for quite
some time. But funnily enough, it was actually Kim who
I don't believe her as an actor. I feel like
(10:50):
I'm watching Kim Yadashian throughout this entire show. The other
actors are all brilliant actors, and I felt like I
was watching acting. Yeah, wild acting going sound very much
like Harry styles like, it feels like a movie, a
movie that feels like a movie. Sarah Paulson's an actress.
It feels like an actress. No, But because they repeat
(11:12):
Alura yea her name so many times at the beginning,
and I think it was to try and drum into
people like Kim, it's not Kim. That it did kind
of work. Her name did stick for me, but I
still felt like I was watching Kim. I know it's hard, Well, yeah,
we were watching Kim. We really were watching Kim. Because
we don't explact to anyone, even people who watched it
(11:32):
to remember every crazy plot line from this show. I
can't remember every crazy but we'll go through each of
the characters. So we should start with Kim. Allura Grant's
story really does bookend and kind of quite drive this
series the way that it starts. She's what seems like
the protagonist of the show. Yeah, well she is the
top build on the show. Yes, which was the other
thing because so many people were just like, I can't
(11:54):
believe that she's top build and that all these other
actresses that Glenn Close and Sarah Paul said a Nissie
Nash would sign on to being the supporting actress dick
In Kardashian. But I kind of get why they did,
kind of get worthy. I mean, Sarah's so loyal to right,
She's so long. I feel like sometimes I feel like
saying to her, Sarah, like you can say no. I
(12:16):
don't know. She doesn't think she cares because she really
credits her entire career totally, And to be honest, I
kind of get it. Because the thing is like, when
you're an actress, like you can be the most talented
and incredible person, but you still need someone, mostly at
the time, a very powerful man to say yes to
you and give you work. You can't really go out
and like, you know, you can obviously go and make
(12:36):
your own TV show, but even though you need someone
on a network to say yes. And you know what,
and this show is testament to that. He gives her
the best characters and so the actress who feels like
an actress like she really does get to act, Yeah,
And I feel like she does say yes to him
out of loyalty and also just knowing that so much
of her career is because of him, but it does
(12:56):
seem like a good working relationship when I interview you,
there's obviously a little love there. Yeah, there's a real
kind of camaraderie there. It was interesting when I interviewed
her for this show and I was asking her about
like her like power in the industry and stuff. She's
talking about cutting friends out of her life and cutting
people out who don't serve her. She was almost saying,
like the catalyst for her like judging who is worth
(13:16):
to have in her life comes from Ryan Murphy. Because
she's like, I know what it's like to have a
powerful man in my corner looking after me, doing right
by me. And it's almost like she was saying she
judges all of her other relationships of how Ryan Murphy
has treated her, and that's huge, right. So you know
she was all in for Carrington Leane, but getting back
to a Laura so she's so forgettable, I know, she
(13:40):
really is. The thing about this is like with All's fair,
I think there's a good show it's buried. There's a
good show buried here. I agree, And you know, honestly,
I am a Ryan Murphy fan. I will watch almost
anything he does this one. I was like, I'm not
interested in Kim. I don't want to watch a show
that Kim's in, but I love Sarah, so it's like
(14:01):
my loyalty to Sarah. Yeah, brought me into the show
exactly because like the idea of it is good again.
I think people were mocking it like it's old school feminism,
girl power, but I was like in the right hands,
Like this idea of these fabulous, beautifully dressed, high powered
female lawyers breaking away from their male law firm, going
off and starting their own practice, having a nemesis who
(14:22):
they had of the old practice, and having all of
these big guest stars coming through as these divorce women
with each time they had like a new, like crazy
case to help them solve. Like it is the formula
for good TV totally, and it's like super camp and
highly stylized. So that concept works for me. Yeah, exactly.
So the letdown was in the execution and in the
casting in some ways. But Allura Grant, yeah we meet her,
(14:45):
I would have say, brilliantly dressed. Oh, I mean throughout
the whole thing. Yeah, And it's like it's one of
those shows like Sex and the City, like Emily in Paris,
where like the wardrobe is almost its own character, like
it's yeah, the wardrobe is epic. Yeah, exactly, so you
can come and just enjoy the wardrobe and the opulence
of it all in her life. And so we meet
her and she's a divorce attorney who's celebrating ten years
(15:09):
with running this law firm with her two best friends,
and everything about her life is very much like set
up to follow her through those first few scenes, it's
like it's perfect. She works in this beautiful office with
all these empowered women, she works with her best friends.
They help women get what they deserve. Like it's this
very altruistic kind of side to it. Then we see
her journey to her incredible mansion and you see her
(15:30):
walk through and greet all the stuff, and she looks
incredible and she's got this beautiful closet and it's almost
like we know what Kim Kardashian's real life looks like
that it's just two steps further. Yes, it has like
a little bit more color than her actual home. Yes, yes,
there's more color. It's like Kim's home, but maybe three
homes ago. Yeah, yeah, before she it's a bit more
(15:50):
Hollywood star than like minimalist, totally kind of art lover
that she kind of bills herself as. And also she
doesn't normally let the staff be shown too much in
the background of it, because you know her Kim Kardashian's
house would be it's teeming with a staff of people,
but you don't often see them in the background of
the Kardashians. Whereas this we say, you know that moment
where she walks in and says to the chef, you know,
(16:11):
dinner in an hour? Yeah, you know that delivery was
better than the way she because I was like, I'm
so Ryan, sign me up. She's so stiff, and I'm like, girl,
you're just playing yourself in this moment. You know how
to tell the staff when you want dinner? I know.
And it's like you're meant to Also, you meant to
really like Alura as a character as well. Did you
(16:32):
like her? No? No, no, no, But I think I would
have liked the idea of her. I just don't think
that Kim Kardashin can emote anything that because again I
think she has an interesting storyline and like, so we
meet her husband. Matthew Nozik plays Chase Munroe, and I
think he did a great job to be honest in
that bumbling idiot. But he doesn't seem dumb for dumb sake.
(16:53):
He seems like like a fully formed character. Yes, yes,
I agree, Like I found him quite vile, oh vile, Yeah,
but violent right from the start. From the moment he
taps his lap and says, come to daddy, I was like, yeah, exactly,
but kind of also felt like a real I'm like,
I know this man exists. Yeah, oh yeah, one hundred percent.
(17:15):
That Kim's definitely dated that I think that she waited
on that, I think she married. That man is watching
this like, hey, we do know who Elizabeth Taylor is.
I don't believe that for insecond, and so we kind
of The interesting part is that she's a divorce lawyer
(17:36):
who got married, yes kind of, and then is building
this life with this guy and is like everything in
her life is so perfect until she finds out that
he has had an affair with her assistant Milan, who
she has been mentoring, which is the ultimate kind of betrayal. Yeah,
that's not the only affair, well many, but that's the
one of that kind of tips over the years. Yeah,
(17:58):
and then she has that interesting plot point. This is
where I thought like the stakes of this show kept changing.
Sometimes the stakes were so low, like when Carrington's big
move against Liberty in the Firm was checking her into
showing them ugly bridesmaid's dresses so fun, and Dina was like,
I know you were behind that. I'm like, this is
the most embarrassing plot that I've ever And then the
(18:22):
British Nurst comes into play with that, because they are
these like kind of Victorian bridesmaid dresses and all these
like Hollywood women with my phone faces and they just
look so ridiculous, and they're like, this is a joke, right,
And then she's like, no, I thought it'd be really nice,
and they're like and then She's like, well, obviously none
of you should be in my wedding. We shouldn't be
friends and we should give Carrington the law firm. And
(18:42):
Carrington's like, ha ha, my plot worked. And I was
like the plot of the ugly bridesmaid's dress. That was
your big swing, that was your big player, and it worked.
We need to talk about Carrington. Yes, let's leave the
Laura for now. We can come back to her. She
goes through some stuff and her facial expression never changes.
That's the hard thing is like I understand stunt casting, Yes,
(19:05):
boy do I understand it, and I think Grime Murphy's
really good at it. But you can't stunt cast a lead.
You can't lead. I think what we're saying it like
this show couldn't hang on Kim No absolutely not claims
about her having top billing, like she shouldn't have had
top billing. No, because she can't emote, She can't carry
the show. She doesn't give any insight to the character.
(19:25):
I mean, these are all really good actresses, but a
show like this doesn't need an award winning actress, but
it just needs something to pull you in. And she
should have been a side character who they wheeled in
every couple of scenes, every few episodes, and then every
time you see her on screen, you'd be like, Oh,
what's she gonna do? Like Kim Karashian's here, She's meant
to be the emotional plot point. There's no emotion. The
(19:45):
only time we see emotion from is when she's putting
the bridesmaids dress on. Yeah, and I think that's an outtake.
They filmed an out take because you can see them
all look at each other and they start laughing. Yeah.
And it's the only time Kim's face moves during the
whole shot. And when you actually get her real laugh,
yes's her real laugh, yes, which we all know because
we've heard it so many times on the show. She
doesn't have a particularly elegant laugh, but in the moments
(20:08):
through the show where she does laugh, it's like a
little tinker like. So that is her laugh and her
Kim laughing very different. And in that moment, she's just
being herself because I think that the cameras on them
and they break and they kept it in and it's
the only time you get real emotion and it wasn't
meant to happen. Yeah, So getting onto Yes Carrington, what
did you love about that character? And or hate? Literally everything?
(20:28):
Like absolutely everything. They are the best lines they were
delivered on a TV show. A particularly favorite one, Yeah,
A pussy. Yeah, that was great. It was just so good,
like talking about her dead cat, yeah, but referring to
it as her dead pussy and how she couldn't stop
petting it that her mum had to tell it. It
(20:50):
was just so funny and Sarah delivered it so well.
And it just didn't stop but kept going, just kept going,
and no wonder so much of the trailer was just
those one was like I think people like tuned into
sort of see how kN kadash she would act in
the first trailer, but then they kind of stayed around
for the Sarah Paulson all her or quips everything with
that character. I mean, she plays a villain very well,
(21:11):
we know that for American horror story. Everything even just
about the initial look that she had and the gloves
and then finding out the layering of the storyline behind
why she dressed like that, Yes, for sure, And like
it's so funny because it starts off in that first
episode where she is kind of accused of being ugly,
which Sarah Pulson is so beautiful, so weird when they
(21:32):
try to sign someone, it's almost like we're watching a
turn and everyone's like, well, males teller is so hot,
so and that's a plot point, Like it's just a
plot po is it? And also Sarah Paulson being the
ugly duckling, I was like, unless she made her look ugly, yeah,
which they didn't didn't. They didn't all helped. She looked
gorgeous but she just didn't have I don't know, as
much filler. Yeah, she just looked more natural, is really it?
(21:54):
So I guess, you know, and I guess in those
circles maybe that is ugly. I don't know. And also
Elaura is meant to be this bombshell, and obviously Kim
cush she is like, he's beautiful, so he's one kind
of against her. But yeah, I love to set up
her character. This is where the show is a good
show because the backstory of them all being in that
law firm together and them choosing not to take her,
even though Kim Kardashian's delivery was terrible in that scene. Otherwise,
(22:16):
you can't just have these women stiping each other. There's
no steaks, no The stakes of watching them in that
mediation room and watching them come at each other and
knowing that they had this very emotional ten year history
makes those scenes so believable. Otherwise, you like, growing women
wouldn't act like that, But growing women with that amount
of emotional baggage and the feeling of being the one
who was left out, Yeah that I understand that driving
(22:39):
her in such a way when they're like to her,
why can't you let it go. You have everything, like
they kind of do allude to the fact that her
firm is more successful, she wins more cases, she makes
more money, so technically she's the winner, but she can't
let it go. And I really relate to that. You
know what she reminded me of ye was a much
more full on Sue Sylvester, Like she had that same
(23:04):
kind of meanness with her lines and her delivery and
the way that she went at them. But it was
like r rated. Yeah, her line to the standouts, which
when you look back at Clayte, that's what everyone talks
about exactly. The thing is like that gets tired, like
Sue Sylvester would have got tired if they didn't give
her these emotional black backstories and plot points and these
(23:26):
softer moments so that the harder moments hit harder because
a straight up villain's boring anyone who's just I mean,
for the sake of it. And I though that's why
I thought that what they did quite well with Carrington.
And I also I know that a lot of the
initial reviews said even Sarah Paulson can't say this, and
there's a lot of trick to that, but I also
think that there's some truly lovely acting moments from her
in this The look on her face when she finds
(23:48):
out that they're not taking her to the law firm,
the naked kind of hurt and pain in her eyes
is so good. But also the side storyline of her
being a mother the mum I thought worked so well.
It was beautiful, wasn't it. Like it was really interesting
to watch that and that dynamic then for her because
you feel, like, you know, in those first few episodes
(24:09):
when you don't know that she's just this kind of workaholic,
somewhat psychotic like woman who all she does is work
and seek vengeance and hate, and then she's got this
whole other life that you don't expect. Yeah, it's so
interesting because like in your head, like I don't know
about you, but I really assigned her a backstory based
on what I've been told, and because the show came
(24:31):
across very surface level, I assigned her a very surface
level backstory where I was like, oh, she just lives
in this dark, creepy pent house apartment, you know, where
she's like so rich, but she just like is like
very lonely and like it's all that she doesn't get
joy from anything outside, and that she'll almost like she
words down at the courtroom, but they actually barely spend
(24:52):
any time in a courtroom. They're not doing courtrooms. They're
like backdoor deals and mediations, which I think is probably
very true. Actually it probably is a divorce. Yeah, yeah,
it wasn't a courtroom drama. They're probably all just like,
we're not going to look good here, like we need
to be now, we need to spend all the time
in our boardroom where we need lacquered. Yeah, she's not
like old, yeah, all that sort of stuff, and so like, yeah,
(25:13):
with Carrington, I just assume that she kind of just
like wore down at the end of the day and
didn't exist. And so seeing her like like like a
highly active romba, like a really angry, swearing rebuff. It
was really believable watching her be in that mum roll
because you can see that she's a little bit sharp
with her daughter, but you also get the idea that
(25:34):
she's the only person in her life who she kind
of speaks to in that more caring way, and she
as a woman knows what it's like to be the
one who's not included and who's left out. And so
when she sees that fate happen to her daughter, the
look of tragedy and regret on her face, it's almost like,
that's the worst thing I could have wished for you
is to feel rejected the way I've been rejected even
(25:56):
though I'm successful. And so that was a really heartbreaking moment.
Yeah it was, and thank goodness it was given to
Sarah yet exactly to kind of well, I mean had
some heartbreaking moments too, like again, but she just couldn't
deliver on them. This should have been a great plot
point when she goes into the fertility clinic and is like,
this is the last chance for me to have these
(26:17):
embryo's the last chance for me to be a mother.
I always want that. She's like stolen from her husband. Yeah,
doesn't know about it, and she's forging the paperwork, and
you see the sort of like pain in her face.
We don't actually don't se any pain in face, but
you should see pain in her face as she's making
the decision. That's like a huge plot point as well,
but it just doesn't land. Even when she finds out
(26:38):
she's not pregnant. She comes out of the bathroom store
to dinner and she's like, I'm not pregnant, and I
was like, give us something us is you're meant. This
is meant to be a tragedy for you. You broke the law,
you risked everything for this because you wanted it more
than anything, and now it hasn't worked and it's your
last chance and you just suppose it. Can't even blink. No.
The plot points are funny because they don't really go anywhere,
(27:00):
and sometimes they don't go anywhere for so long that
you've forgotten about them. Yeah, and then you're like do
they really matter? In the same way the court cases
that they're all the divorces that they're working on each
episode also are like who cares? Yeah? I thought that
was not that I thought the show was going to
be about the law, but like it really does get
(27:20):
away from I thought it was going to be more
of that, like guest Star of the week coming in
and we started strong, which was amazing. We did start strong,
some of those storylines that they have a favorite guest star,
Jessica Simpson. Jessica Simpson was great. I loved it and
it was so funny because when she comes in and
she looks terrible, right, I mean you learn later there's
a reason for it, But I like watching it was like,
(27:42):
oh God, like, what happened? What happened to do you? Jess? Like?
She looks terrible. That's then part of her storyline is
that she's had all this botched surgery because her husband's
forced her to have it to try and make it
look young and whatever, and then so she wants to
sue him for doing that to her. But it's such
a fun, camp Ryan Murphy esque La Wild storyline that
(28:05):
I really enjoyed it. I love to say jess I
wanted her to have a bigger role. Yeah, to be honest,
because I thought the significance you're right of her being
there was huge. One is that I love how much
she's just openly excited about being friends with Kim Kardashi
in real life, which I feel as if very relatable.
It's like Jessica Simpson has been famous for most of
her life. Was fifteen, yeah, and she's like a millionaire
in her like I think Shoeline made like a billion
(28:27):
dollars or something like that. And bath products, remember that
Jessica Simpson bath product and if she used them, Oh,
my god deserved dessert and they didn't smell good. I did.
It was too much to taste them. Oh yeah you
could eat that. Yeah, it's supposed to. But they tasted
really sweet. It's like the body cream was literally just
thick chocolate. Yeah, and everyone's like, I'm gonna put shampoo.
(28:47):
Was just like it was just like actual vanilla, like
not vanilla scented like a pump. It was like it
was like barthing and cake and you're all just like whoa, yeah,
so sick. It was almost like the pump packs that
have behind the counter at Starbucks. That was like basically
it was like bathing and Starbucks. And my friends were
all teens were like, oh, Jessica's amazing products were sexy.
She made a lot of money. She made so much
(29:08):
money and had a clothing line in particular act the
clothing line selling it all in like seas and you
know that she went because she's like, yes, is my
lowest a smart girl and people don't or she listens
to smart people, which is also smart yes, because she's like,
my fans aren't going to go shop in like these
really high end boutiques. They need to go to Walmart,
which is where she sold some of her shoes and things,
and so she made a lot of money. And so
(29:30):
her daughter and Northwest go to school together, and so
she's all about the posting, like when she's like over
at Kim's or well like when her daughter Maxwell gets
invited to sleep over. And I was like, it's just
very social crimeery, but in like a really cute way. Yeah,
and it's funny because Jess was famous before Kim. Yeah,
and that's famous, so so famous. But also and I
think this is really fun with bringing Jess on the show.
(29:54):
Her marriages have been very famous. So I mean her
reality TV show was newly Wed, so we saw that,
we saw her marriage play out, and then all the
world watched while it broke down exactly, so she became
very much to no one for divorce and no one
for like being the woman who was like trying to
date these men and like you know, and people were
like talking about her being like sad and alone. And
(30:14):
then when she married her husband, they had their kids,
like she finally got this happy ending, and then the
storyline around their divorce was negative towards her. And so
I feel like, because she did a lot of press
for this show for being a guestar. But she was
just like, put me in, coach, I'll do every red
carp I'll do every interview, talk about it so much,
And she was talking about finding redemption after going through
her own divorce, of going in and playing this woman,
(30:35):
and so I love that for her and I want
her to come back in season two. Same. I do
think she loved seeing but you know whatever, Like, yeah,
they can do anything. Yeah, could bring her back for
another round. She would be so up for it. Someone
else who I really loved in this show and who
I thought really elevated the storyline was Niche Nash as
(30:56):
Emerald Green. Amazing ten. I mean, first of all, great actress, Yes,
great actress, great to say, and definitely was kind of
like the moral compass them all, which was nice, but like, yeah,
so there was definitely purpose to that character, whereas yeah,
well the thing is and nothing against Naomi Watts is
(31:17):
a great actress. And I know someone who we've both
interviewed super lovely loves mom and me. I often likes
her stuff, yeah, which is nice. Love her could cut
her on the shoulder and make no difference, right, And
there's times where she's just missing ageous as well. I mean,
like she may have been busy, she might have been
doing a couple of projects Jet getting the Jets to
Wonder and then there was an episode whe'd actually forgotten
(31:38):
about her and then someone mentions her. I was like, oh,
like Liberty, that's oh yeah, Naomi. We haven't seen Naomi
and herbs thing like getting proposed to and then finding
out that he had like taken this high loan all this,
so they tried to give her stakes, but it's like
she was out of the main storyline so much. Some
people have said, I don't think this is true because
(31:58):
I think if she signed on for the show, she
signed on for the show. Some people have said that
part of her signing on was that she wanted to
be away from the main cast because she didn't like
acting off Kim and she didn't get pulled, and why
would she sign on. She wouldn't dumb, Like yeah, I
think that they were just trying to sort of broaden
the story out and give her this separate storyline. But
what it did was just make her so forgettable that
when you look back through a lot of the scenes
(32:20):
and like you could just cut her out and nothing
would change at the end of the day, It's really
a Lura and Carrington show to quite an extent. Definitely,
I completely agree, And I think to bring it back
to Emerald, that was a necessary character, Like we needed
that kind of relief between the woodenness of Kim and
then like the huge acting and personality that we got
(32:42):
from Sarah. Yeah, exactly. And also, if I had to
pick any of them that I would go and watch
a spin off show, I would watch Emerald spin off show. Yeah,
with her triplets. Yes, I freaking loved that. It was
another twist. I didn't expect all these women to have
these home lives because the show felt so insular and
kind of very much about like just them at work.
So I just assumed that she was just like a
(33:03):
fabulous rich woman who would just party after work. And
when you realize that she's got triplets that she decided
to have with a like look twenty five. Yeah, they're
in high school and so they were like overachieving and
her family dynamic at home I loved. Yeah, I loved
the dynamic with her and the boys. I also loved
her much. They loved her, and I would a little
too much when one of them said she looked bangable. Yeah. Yeah,
(33:27):
there's a questionable line there. There's a questionable line. But
I was like, oh, if there was any spinoff i'd watch,
it would be Emerald in Her Emerald and the Navigating Life. Yeah.
But then this is why I don't know what to
do with this show, because sometimes it's so campy and ridiculous,
and you have like Elizabeth Berkley's character, who I loved
her being in there too, from Showgirls and from Saved
(33:47):
by the Veloping, this iconic actress who really lost her career,
exactly the kind of person that Ryan Murphy would pluck
and put in a show. Totally like you have her
jump off the building and just kill herself, and like
everyone's like, oh, okay, So the tone of the show
is like, oh so, like there's no stakes and nothing matters,
And the next moment you're watching the show of Emerald
being raped, which horrific, but also all of a sudden,
(34:08):
it's very serious, and that is serious. But I'm just like,
it feels very jarring because this feels like a fantasy
show that has no stakes, and now you're giving me
a very serious plot line that everyone's treating very seriously,
and I don't know where it fits into them. It's
interesting because the clients they take on have these insane storylines,
you know, like the one with the safe full of
(34:28):
millions of dollars worth of jewelry, but they're all quite
fanciful and ridiculous. So obviously are people that hire lawyers
that have millions and millions and million dollars and they're
going through these crazy divorces or whatever with intense prenups
and everything. But the clients they take on are utterly ridiculous,
which is typical of a TV series, Like the storyline
(34:49):
of that show kind of then informs what's going on
in the other you know, the main women's lives, the lawyers' lives,
so they intersect in that way and they use them
as plot carriers they go nowhere. It's a bit strange.
But then what is interesting then is for these women
who are or playing divorce attorneys the way that their
(35:10):
own personal lives, like how they've been stunted as well,
like emotionally and in their romances because I guess of
what they're exposed to, which that's interesting because that would
be real, yes, you know, there would be so many
divorce attorneys that then have seen the foulest ways that
people treat each other, Then how do you have trust
(35:31):
like you can understand? Like with Liberty's character, Naomi, what's
character like, why she's so ambivalent about getting married when
she's like, I want to take it slow because she's
seen the worst, Yeah, and she doesn't want her personal
life to mirror her worst yes. Yeah, And then it
kind of does, of course, and its Emerald whips out
her computer, It's like, I'll look him up. I'm like,
first of all, why don't you do that? Ages ago?
And also no good will ever come of this because
(35:52):
every time she looks anyone up in her magic computer,
her magic computer where she finds just the worst things
about people. But actually that was so awful when Emerald,
who had sworn off dating, gets talked into putting herself
out there and then that happens, and it's horrific. Yeah,
I didn't love that. I didn't either. I just felt
(36:13):
obviously it's allfull. You don't want to watch any woman
go through that on screen. No, But at the same time,
it just felt like it wasn't something that this show
could properly deal with, and it didn't, and it just
felt so out of place, and as you say, it
was jarring because everything else had been quite silly and
camp and their clients, like their stories were all silly
and camp and kind of overly overly sexualized but in
(36:36):
a consensual way. Or you know, the billions of dollars
of jewelry and look, they were all just ridiculous. So
then to have this quite real thing happened, yeh, was
jarring and fell out of place in the show. And
it does and they obviously did because they like set
out to like look for this man and take him
down and obviously what happens to him and everything. But
at the same time, like because of how the show
is and the style of it, they did have to
move on from it. And so it's kind of like
(36:58):
you have this moment in time and they move on
to other things, and then there is some sad moments,
like with Dina's husband dying. Also er O'Neil pops up. Yes,
it's so good. I mean, that was an interesting storyline
because she can't let him go. Yeah, and that again,
that's where the tone changed because all of a sudden, like, yes,
it's kind of creepy. That she's keeping her dead husband's
(37:19):
body upstairs and while anyone touch it. But it does
fill in tone with the show, yes, whereas the Emerald
situation did it. But it also moves the plot along
because Carrington had to be able to come back into
the fold in that way, and you had to have
like Liberty and the others be pushed aside to make
ways for the finale. And that's how we did that.
And I think that's it, like the Emerald moment, like
it's too real, whereas everything else is so highly stylized
(37:40):
and silly and ridiculous that it just felt yeah yeah,
which kind of moves us into the finale, which a
lot happened and nothing happened, which is I think the
tagline of the show show because it did really cent
her on Dina being and it is kind of interesting.
This is the thing like Ryan Murphy, He's got all
the players in the right spot, he just couldn't land
the plane. Maybe season two where he's like, Dina is
(38:02):
this all powerful, all knowing everyone bows down to, everyone
loves her character in the show, and so the catalyst
for Carrington finally turning against her is when she's trying
to figure out who voted against her for her to
come into the law firm. Also her coming to the
law firm, that's a terrible idea. Why are they even
entertaining that that's know me? What's his best moment? Basically,
(38:23):
she's like, well, if you guys, let Carrington, you'll still
be looking for someone because, over my fucking dead body,
will I work with her? I'm like, that is a
true emotion. The first time anyone this show has spoken sense.
You can't bring her into your law and have coffee
with her in the break when she's literally trying to
try to attack you across the table, slept with your
eggs husband. Not that they have to work with people
that you like in a law firm like this, but
(38:44):
also you can't work with people you hate. But also
you can't work with someone that you don't trust, assault
that will sleep with your husband, like for revenge. Yeah,
I want to just trust walking into the courtroom with them,
and I don't think they should even again, it's a
weird time. That's I think the only thing that you
could say to really take Carrington laid down is that
these women her crazy insults at each other about their
(39:07):
looks and their lives and their families and stuff, and
nothing sticks because they've said at all. Yeah, the only
thing that you could hurt Carrington with is what they
have Dina do, which is when she says, I don't
choose you. Because through all of this, Dina was still
her mentor the way that she was Liberty's mentoring, in
the way she was Laura's mentor, and so it was
the only thing holding them all together, that this woman
cared for all of them. And I think that was
(39:29):
Carrington's thing that was carrying her through, is like she
always felt like she had one foot in the circle
because of Dina. And then when Dina says, I didn't
vote for you, and only did I not vote for
you to come to join the law firm. But I've
now realized that the others were right all along, and
they could just smell the stink on you before I could.
And I never felt love for you. I've only ever
felt pity. Yeah, it's good character development because it's the
(39:50):
only thing that could propel Carrington to do what she
does next, Yes, which is a cat slight her, which
is take them all down from the inside. It's so
funny that little book where she just has their names
right now and she crosses each one else is so
like mean girls, Esque's and very Taylor. I've got a
list of names. And yes in red underline, Ryan Murphey
(40:13):
was listening to that album. Ye. This was a reputation.
This was a reputation series, a reputation the series. The
best bit was when she crossed out Liberty's name after
the bridesmaids dress and the next moment she's framed Dina
for murder. I'm like, two different but they both worked.
And now we end the season with like, so she's
tricked the other lawyers. So here's the thing. At this point,
(40:36):
I was like, Okay, you're just I no know. I
was like, this is what I wanted all along. Carrington
is the star, Yeah, of this show. She's giving up
all pretends that Kim was the star of this show. Yes,
so let her have the front half coming home strong
with Sarah Yeah exactly, and her having all the one
liners in her It really is her show. And it's
(40:58):
interesting because I was reading an interview with the executive
producer who also directed a few of the scenes, and
he was talking about Kim's acting and stuff getting better,
but He's also like, oh, there's so many things we
had to cut. I was like, I friakin bet you guys.
Did I think she was meant to be more of
I think she peters out as a show goes along.
The Illura character doesn't have as much to do and
I will go out on a limb that I think
(41:19):
they didn't cut too much. But there's a few big
scenes that have been cut because they just couldn't get
her there. Yeah, she just wasn't giving anything, And there's
so many Carrington scenes. And I think when they did
the edit, if it had been a stronger actress in
the Kim Kardashian part, maybe it would have been more
of an even cut. But it just feels that they've
cut more of Kim's and left more of Sarah Paul's them,
which of course you would if you're looking at an
(41:39):
editor of the two of them together. Oh, it's actually
so daunting, and like, honestly, hats off to Kim that
she was willing to stand there and be a scene partner.
Was absolutely, Yeah, that's the hard thing. It's like there's
a certain kind of bravery in that. Yeah, there is
in throwing yourself into not just naivity, do we think.
I also just think she's so used to being the
(41:59):
winner in every room. Yeah, yes, exactly, And she's so
used to be like she's the most famous person. I'm
sure it didn't occur to her that it was strange
for her to have toiling over these actresses because and
in her head used to be Yeah, I mean she
had top feeling over her family. I think it's the
first thing that she couldn't kind of like curate away. Yeah,
because like when you're on the screen acting, that's it.
Like there's tricks you can do, but there's not a lot.
(42:22):
This is what I say when Neppo babies also get
really famous, it was like, yes, you can get in
the room and all of them get in the room
over better talented people. Yeah, but once you're on the
camera and you're carrying a movie or a TV show,
you can either do it or you can't. Yeah, and
she can't do it well, you know, and she's made
that joke about herself, you know, not bad for a
girl with no talent, right. I think that's one of
her like famous lines that we've all heard trotted out
(42:42):
that I guess, like for my take on the show,
is I guess not bad for a girl with no
talent like she but she doesn't have talent. No. I
wonder how much of her will see in season two. Yeah,
I'd be interested in that because she still build as
the lead. And it's interesting because I think she obviously
does have a lot of talent, but she's her talent
is an imagery. Yeah, her talent isn't like creating an
(43:03):
image and seeing it through and knowing how to create
a product like she like she has talent is in headlines, yes,
and that is not easy to do. It's not And
I think what you said about like at the top
of this about the views at the beginning of the show,
people were tuning in for Kim. Ryan knew that Kim
knows that she gets headlined. She gets eyes on her exactly,
(43:24):
and she is always the one who says, like, my
family want to cut things out of the Kartashians, like
where we look bad, and she's the one who's like,
put it back in. That's the show, that's the drama.
And she's the one who'll sacrifice looking beautiful in a
red carpet forgetting a headline, like covering her face or
something like she's very smart, yeah, and interesting and everything.
But I just think, like when she releases a song,
they can edit the song when she like they say,
like she's written this, Like no, she hasn't. But like
(43:46):
with the acting, you can't. You can't. They probably can't
make it eye. But overall I would say all's fair.
Like it's biggest sin is not that the acting is bad,
and it's biggest sin is not that the plot didn't
go anywhere. At the end of the day. I just
founded a little bit boring, did you I did a
little bit? Hey, you know what. I enjoyed it, which
(44:07):
I think partly is because it's this time of year
and I've got nothing left in my change so watching
something that takes a lot of focus is feels really
hard right now. Whereas this was just something I could
dip in, watch go in with like no expectations actually
going thinking this is going to be terrible, and it's
(44:29):
actually I found it quite entertaining. But last night, when
I crammed the last three episodes and watched three back
to back, it felt like hard work. And it's the
thing is I love non prestige TV. Give me like
a crappy show about women in a big city getting
coffee and stuff. But the thing is, with a lot
of those shows, there's a heart to them, yeah, and
they sometimes is a genuine humor, or there's a comfortingness
to it or something. And I sometimes think that, like,
(44:51):
really watchable TV is the hardest thing to make. I know,
people feel like dramas the hardest thing, or like really
intense comedy is the hardest thing. But I find like
TV shows that you want to immerse yourself in, and
this felt like it should be that. Yeah, it should
be one of those shows like, Oh, I can't wait
to sit down and watch this and watch each episode
over and over again. I can't watch that again. Do
you think it's fair that it's been called the worst
(45:12):
shop of the year? Maybe? Yeah, maybe to be fair again,
I don't hate it, but I just think it had everything,
and for the fact that it's still not that watchable
is a pretty far fall. I think I just loved
Sarah so much that I can't say that about it.
But then if you ask me what was the worst
show of the year, I can't think of it. I
just can't think of anything I've watched. I guess because
(45:33):
there's other shitty things we wouldn't give the time of day.
We give the time of day this. So is it
the worst show I've watched this year? Yeah? Maybe? Yeah?
Do you think it was worse than And just like
that Norman, just like that still has a heart to it,
and just like that still is a world I want
to live. And I watched one of those episodes. I
feel like I've got a lot of goodwill for that
because of the years and years that I spent loving
sex and the City and loving those characters. But I
(45:56):
feel like I enjoyed All's Fair this year more than
I enjoyed And just like God and how that information
and just like that defend us well again, I find
a heart and a joyfulness to that show that they
didn't always have. But that, to me feels like a
fully formed world. This feels like Ryan Murphy moving dolls
(46:17):
around on the sound stage, which is exactly what it is. Yeah,
I don't know, You're probably the one that's right here.
Like I know that I'm wrong and I know that
you're right. It became a cultural talking point, and I
think that's what they wanted at the end of the day.
That's what this executive producer who talked to the Hollywood
Reporter said he said that Ryan Murphy got what he
wanted because everyone is talking about this, and I find
(46:38):
that so true. It was like he wanted to create
a cultural moment. He created a cultural moment. It made
him a lot of money. And now they've been renewed
for season two. And this is an expensive show to make.
Think of the clothes, the salary, the sets, the guest
star prices. There's no way Hulu's saying yes to that
unless they're getting money back for it. Absolutely, so we
get to do this all again next year. Will you
be watching obviously? I mean, wait, it is my job,
(47:00):
but I'm probably cheatedn't out of curiosity, But I hope
they find their feet a bit more in season two.
They sort of let everyone go on their strengths and
Kim Kardashing can just in it looking hot as all hell,
and they can kind of peter that out a little
bit and just yeah, bring that in. I feel like
it's not going to be great next year. No, no,
but we'll stay tuned for season two. Well, thank you
(47:22):
so much for joining us today. And did you know
that Spill has a YouTube channel, so you can watch
the show every day and see all of our behind
the scenes content, and we popped a link in the
show notes for you to check it out and make
sure you're following us. And Morning Tea drops a new
episode every weekday at seven am to get you up
to speed on all the celebrity headlines before you go
into work, so you will find that here in this feed.
(47:44):
The Spill is produced by Minitia It's Warren with sound
production by Scott Stronik. Bye Bye, Mumma Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this podcast
on the Gatigor people of the Orination. We pay our
(48:06):
respects to their past and present and extend that respect
to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
You're listening to Amma mea podcast from Mamma Mia. Welcome
to the Spill, your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura
Brodneg and today I'm joined by I'm Free Player. I'm
the executive producer of Muma MIA's interview podcast No Filter,
(00:31):
and just a bit of a pop culture addict. Which
is why you're here today, because today we have a
very important, brutally honest review. Because love it or hate it,
we are talking about the show that has really shaped
pop culture this year, Broken Records. People hate it, people
love it, and that is the Ryan Murphy series. All's fair.
You're the first divorce lawyers in town. I need you
(00:54):
to tell us the whole story. We were in love,
it was all perfect, except for this one small thing.
I trusted him. How did this ever happened to me? Men?
They are terrified of women in power. Thank God. I
(01:15):
love my job and I think it's interesting to say
people love it or hate it because you can also
love it and hate it, yes, which we will get
into that. So the show has come to an end.
It's already been renewed for a second season, so it's
going to come back again. Surprise, It's Glory. It's going
to come back again. So this is a brutally honest review,
which if you haven't listened to one before, we go
(01:36):
through the ins and outs of the whole show. We
do opinions, we do behind the scenes facts. We're also
going to talk about the finale, so spoilers if you
haven't seen it. I mean, the numbers don't lie. A
lot of people watch this show, but I wonder how
many people watched all the way to the end. Yeah,
I agree. I mean, to be fair, I hadn't watched
it all way to the end until we were like, okay,
(01:56):
let's talk about it. So last night I crammed the
last three apps. I'm always interested in this. So would
you have watched it? Okay, you would. Yeah, it's just
you know, this time of year, it's hard, this so
much going on, there's a lot of TV. But also
I also think it's fair for people who say no,
because I think this is what I said when the
show came out, like the big numbers at the start
was very impressive, but I would have been more impressed
(02:16):
if the numbers, how the numbers stayed, which they kind
of did. So talking about sort of getting into how
this show came to be and how all the forces
of the world came together to see Kim kartashe in
a legal drama. She starred an American horror story Delicate
from twenty twenty three to twenty twenty fours. That was
the last American horror story season. Did you watch that?
Are you an American horror story fans make so much
(02:37):
to catch it on, so much to catch up on.
I am such an American horror story fan, but like
a purist. Oh sure, I know exactly what you mean.
So did I watch the Kim k seasons? No? And
that's fair because they were not good. But actually I
don't believe it was her fault. It was not a
good season. No, And they also, to be fair, were
(03:00):
not good for a few seasons before. Yeah, the lead
up before that was kind of disappointing. And I mean,
the thing is they've come from the highest of highs.
Is that I really think that Ryan Murphy does make
excellent television. I know some people trash Glee. That's good
storytelling was great first obviously kind of peed off towards
the end season one excellent storytelling American horror story. Some
(03:21):
of those seasons are some of the best seasons of
television I've ever seen, absolutely, like each of the first
like five, Yeah, basically until Jessica Lang left. And that's
not even just Jessica leaving was what made it not great.
That's when the stories went sow Ten Asylum, Coven Oven
(03:43):
So Good Evening and Lady Gaga for Hotel like there
was still yes exactly, and so Ryan Murphy, I think,
like why he gravitated towards Kim Kutashi and makes a
lot of sense. Like I've heard a lot of people
be like, you know, he's this incredible filmmaker and TV maker,
and he does make prestige TV like American Crime Story
and the Upcoming American Love Story, and he makes for
this incredible TV as much as it is kind of
(04:04):
often like campy and smutty and stuff like that. But
I understand his like attraction to Kim Kardashin because he
also very famously as much as he loves murder and drama,
he loves like Americana, and he loves pop culture, and
he loves people who are at the pinnacle of fame
and glammur and like that's very much Kim so I
can understand why he saw her and was like, I
need to like add her to my collection. Yes, yeah,
(04:27):
I agree, And like, let's not forget that he did
Screen Queens right, which was so like incredible great, But
like I remember when he did that. I know Ariana
had done TV before, but it was kid TV. But
he kind of he does pick like pop culture icons
at the time and pop them in a show. And
I remember when she was cast in that show, people
were like, oh, that's weird, Ariana Brande's in it. So
(04:49):
he does, as you say, like pick cultural phenomenons and
put them in his shows. Yeah. The slight difference here
and this is not slight towards Kim is like Lady
Gaga hadn't done like a huge amount of acting when
she went into Horror Story, but she was really great,
yes as the sexy evil vampire. And then Ariana Grinder
was great in Screen Queens, and then Kim Kardashian proven
(05:10):
to be great. So they are both now legitimate actresses. Yes,
Oscar worthy actress, Yeah, both of them. Yeah, Kim Kardashan,
there was no because few people were sort of saying like, oh,
maybe he's seeing something that we can't see, No, he wasn't.
He was just seeing fame because she can't act. I
think even she would say that, But I think it
was the allure of her because he just wanted to
put her in something so badly, Because you know, he
(05:31):
initially pitched that her and Chris Jenner, he pitched a
reality show. He's like, I've never seen a pitch. When
he was telling the storyback seen a pitch tank so badly,
they just both lost interested in what he was saying
straight away. Kim picked up her phone and Chris was like,
what else you got? And that's when he pitched All's Fair,
which is kind of built around the idea of obviously
Kim going through this really high profile divorce, but also
(05:53):
off the back of Laura Wosso, who is a very
high profile yeah, divorce attorney and has represented Kim a
few times. Yeah, she's certainly think she's given her a
bit of work. Yeah, which she will be the first
one to make that John like, that's what I love
about Kim Kardashian, that she's the first one. She's always
been good at laughing at herself. Yeah. Yeah. And so
it was very much of Ryan Murphy kind of seeing
(06:13):
Kim Kardashian, Okay, she doesn't want to do any more
reality and kind of why would she. They've got the
Kardashians already on Hulu a second show about her if
she did that prison reform show. But I can't see
her branching off to do a spinoff reality show about herself.
It's not really the brand, no exactly, and they've you know,
they've tried that in the past, and they've never really
worked as well as their core show. Yeah exactly. Oh yeah,
(06:35):
obviously they had all like the Take Miami's Take New
Yorks and stuff, but that was a very different time.
And so that's why Ryan Murphy came up with All's
Fair as a way to kind of take Kim going
through law school. And he's like, what if in an
alternate timeline, Kim Kardashian, who then becomes a Laura Grant,
actually went to law school and became a lawyer, and
what would that look like of her being in this
high profile like sexy persona, which is how the show
(06:58):
the show came about. And then he assembled like, yeah,
the most incredible of like female movie stars, So yes,
getting onto our core cast. I know a lot about
the show made crazy headlines as it was coming out,
so just the trailer alone became the biggest ever in
like twenty four hours for Hulu. It did like fifty
(07:20):
seven million views in the first day, and it actually
beat out the season three trailer of The Kardashians, which
was their former highest numbers. So Kim's like, really, she's
competing against herself, really there for the numbers on Hulu.
And then after all the terrible reviews came out for
the first episode of All's Fair, a lot of people
giving it as zero and a lot of people saying
(07:41):
it's the worst thing they've ever seen. Then the audience
numbers were huge and it became the highest scripted premiere
in three years. And a lot of that initial media
attention came when the cast list was announced, because this
cast list insane, insane, insane. We've got Nami Watts as
Liberty Ronson. I must say, my favorite thing about this
show is all the names, which I actually struggled to
(08:03):
keep track of all their names. They're all sound like
fake names. They do all sound like fake names, which
is fabulous and so can and so fitting of this show.
But throughout it, I just in my head was calling
them Naomi, you know, yeah, of coltca. Well, the thing
is sometimes they were really going in and out of
just being themselves and being characters. So yes, we have
Kim Kardashian as a Lura Grant. Yes, And every time
they said a Lura, I'm just like, I just don't
(08:23):
believe that's her name. To be honest with Luus, yeah,
that's what we are. They Nami Watson as Liberty Ronson,
who was playing a British woman. She kind of swung
in and out of Bakay. Do you sounding Australian? Yeah,
as well. I know, Well the first two episodes, I
was trying to understand what her accent was meant to be.
I thought she was Australian but sounded like an Australian
(08:44):
who'd been living in London. But Naomi doesn't live in London.
She lives in New York. So was really confused. And
then later it's apparent because it becomes a running Joe
yeah that she's British. I was like, oh, Naomi, not
your best word. She lived in Austraia for a long time,
but she's originally from the UK. But she came from
the UK to Australia, I think at like fourteen, so
she did drop her accent and it was Australian. But
(09:04):
then in the show they also use it as a
weird pop point about how she's just a bit on
the outer because she's British. British. I'm like, literally, not,
that's not the reason. That's do you really think you're
best friends of ten years and your other fellow lawyers
every song and they're gonna leave you other lip because like,
you know what, she's British, Like, it's it's not it's
not a plot point. The plot point of this show.
I do love and we'll get to that. Then we
(09:25):
had Nissi Nash as Emerald Green. Epic Emerald Green. It's
so funny, Loud, I know, well, it sounds like a
Cludo character. It's so funny. It just sounds like a
fake day that you'd make up if you were like
thinking and you're like Emerald Green. I mean, I guess,
like you look at a paint chip on the wall,
(09:45):
you see that it was giving like George Glass, Yeah, yeah,
exactly exactly that vibe. But I guess she carrolls it off.
She does feel like an Emerald Tiana Taylor as Milan.
That name sounded fair. It doesn't sound like a name
that she potentially gave herself once she moved to La,
which is a backstory I invented for her. Yeah, I
love that it works. And then Glenn Close as Dina Standish.
(10:06):
I feel like we the ball that one. Yeah, Dina fine.
They were like, we'll give the older woman a kind
of older sounding again, and I didn't need to happen. No, Yeah,
but at least they didn't give her like a real
older sounding name. She was a normal, yea god, norma
brown or something. And then my favorite name of the
entire series, Sarah Paulson as Carrington Lane. So Harrington Lane
(10:29):
is the best name, and that name out of all
of them, sounds like that's her name. That sounds like
that character's real name, Carrington Lane. Yeah. Yeah, And everyone
calling her car car just sounded like a fantastic No.
But I couldn't keep track of their names for quite
some time. But funnily enough, it was actually Kim who
I don't believe her as an actor. I feel like
(10:50):
I'm watching Kim Yadashian throughout this entire show. The other
actors are all brilliant actors, and I felt like I
was watching acting. Yeah, wild acting going sound very much
like Harry styles like, it feels like a movie, a
movie that feels like a movie. Sarah Paulson's an actress.
It feels like an actress. No, But because they repeat
(11:12):
Alura yea her name so many times at the beginning,
and I think it was to try and drum into
people like Kim, it's not Kim. That it did kind
of work. Her name did stick for me, but I
still felt like I was watching Kim. I know it's hard, Well, yeah,
we were watching Kim. We really were watching Kim. Because
we don't explact to anyone, even people who watched it
(11:32):
to remember every crazy plot line from this show. I
can't remember every crazy but we'll go through each of
the characters. So we should start with Kim. Allura Grant's
story really does bookend and kind of quite drive this
series the way that it starts. She's what seems like
the protagonist of the show. Yeah, well she is the
top build on the show. Yes, which was the other
thing because so many people were just like, I can't
(11:54):
believe that she's top build and that all these other
actresses that Glenn Close and Sarah Paul said a Nissie
Nash would sign on to being the supporting actress dick
In Kardashian. But I kind of get why they did,
kind of get worthy. I mean, Sarah's so loyal to right,
She's so long. I feel like sometimes I feel like
saying to her, Sarah, like you can say no. I
(12:16):
don't know. She doesn't think she cares because she really
credits her entire career totally, And to be honest, I
kind of get it. Because the thing is like, when
you're an actress, like you can be the most talented
and incredible person, but you still need someone, mostly at
the time, a very powerful man to say yes to
you and give you work. You can't really go out
and like, you know, you can obviously go and make
(12:36):
your own TV show, but even though you need someone
on a network to say yes. And you know what,
and this show is testament to that. He gives her
the best characters and so the actress who feels like
an actress like she really does get to act, Yeah,
And I feel like she does say yes to him
out of loyalty and also just knowing that so much
of her career is because of him, but it does
(12:56):
seem like a good working relationship when I interview you,
there's obviously a little love there. Yeah, there's a real
kind of camaraderie there. It was interesting when I interviewed
her for this show and I was asking her about
like her like power in the industry and stuff. She's
talking about cutting friends out of her life and cutting
people out who don't serve her. She was almost saying,
like the catalyst for her like judging who is worth
(13:16):
to have in her life comes from Ryan Murphy. Because
she's like, I know what it's like to have a
powerful man in my corner looking after me, doing right
by me. And it's almost like she was saying she
judges all of her other relationships of how Ryan Murphy
has treated her, and that's huge, right. So you know
she was all in for Carrington Leane, but getting back
to a Laura so she's so forgettable, I know, she
(13:40):
really is. The thing about this is like with All's fair,
I think there's a good show it's buried. There's a
good show buried here. I agree, And you know, honestly,
I am a Ryan Murphy fan. I will watch almost
anything he does this one. I was like, I'm not
interested in Kim. I don't want to watch a show
that Kim's in, but I love Sarah, so it's like
(14:01):
my loyalty to Sarah. Yeah, brought me into the show
exactly because like the idea of it is good again.
I think people were mocking it like it's old school feminism,
girl power, but I was like in the right hands,
Like this idea of these fabulous, beautifully dressed, high powered
female lawyers breaking away from their male law firm, going
off and starting their own practice, having a nemesis who
(14:22):
they had of the old practice, and having all of
these big guest stars coming through as these divorce women
with each time they had like a new, like crazy
case to help them solve. Like it is the formula
for good TV totally, and it's like super camp and
highly stylized. So that concept works for me. Yeah, exactly.
So the letdown was in the execution and in the
casting in some ways. But Allura Grant, yeah we meet her,
(14:45):
I would have say, brilliantly dressed. Oh, I mean throughout
the whole thing. Yeah, And it's like it's one of
those shows like Sex and the City, like Emily in Paris,
where like the wardrobe is almost its own character, like
it's yeah, the wardrobe is epic. Yeah, exactly, so you
can come and just enjoy the wardrobe and the opulence
of it all in her life. And so we meet
her and she's a divorce attorney who's celebrating ten years
(15:09):
with running this law firm with her two best friends,
and everything about her life is very much like set
up to follow her through those first few scenes, it's
like it's perfect. She works in this beautiful office with
all these empowered women, she works with her best friends.
They help women get what they deserve. Like it's this
very altruistic kind of side to it. Then we see
her journey to her incredible mansion and you see her
(15:30):
walk through and greet all the stuff, and she looks
incredible and she's got this beautiful closet and it's almost
like we know what Kim Kardashian's real life looks like
that it's just two steps further. Yes, it has like
a little bit more color than her actual home. Yes, yes,
there's more color. It's like Kim's home, but maybe three
homes ago. Yeah, yeah, before she it's a bit more
(15:50):
Hollywood star than like minimalist, totally kind of art lover
that she kind of bills herself as. And also she
doesn't normally let the staff be shown too much in
the background of it, because you know her Kim Kardashian's
house would be it's teeming with a staff of people,
but you don't often see them in the background of
the Kardashians. Whereas this we say, you know that moment
where she walks in and says to the chef, you know,
(16:11):
dinner in an hour? Yeah, you know that delivery was
better than the way she because I was like, I'm
so Ryan, sign me up. She's so stiff, and I'm like, girl,
you're just playing yourself in this moment. You know how
to tell the staff when you want dinner? I know.
And it's like you're meant to Also, you meant to
really like Alura as a character as well. Did you
(16:32):
like her? No? No, no, no, But I think I would
have liked the idea of her. I just don't think
that Kim Kardashin can emote anything that because again I
think she has an interesting storyline and like, so we
meet her husband. Matthew Nozik plays Chase Munroe, and I
think he did a great job to be honest in
that bumbling idiot. But he doesn't seem dumb for dumb sake.
(16:53):
He seems like like a fully formed character. Yes, yes,
I agree, Like I found him quite vile, oh vile, Yeah,
but violent right from the start. From the moment he
taps his lap and says, come to daddy, I was like, yeah, exactly,
but kind of also felt like a real I'm like,
I know this man exists. Yeah, oh yeah, one hundred percent.
(17:15):
That Kim's definitely dated that I think that she waited
on that, I think she married. That man is watching
this like, hey, we do know who Elizabeth Taylor is.
I don't believe that for insecond, and so we kind
of The interesting part is that she's a divorce lawyer
(17:36):
who got married, yes kind of, and then is building
this life with this guy and is like everything in
her life is so perfect until she finds out that
he has had an affair with her assistant Milan, who
she has been mentoring, which is the ultimate kind of betrayal. Yeah,
that's not the only affair, well many, but that's the
one of that kind of tips over the years. Yeah,
(17:58):
and then she has that interesting plot point. This is
where I thought like the stakes of this show kept changing.
Sometimes the stakes were so low, like when Carrington's big
move against Liberty in the Firm was checking her into
showing them ugly bridesmaid's dresses so fun, and Dina was like,
I know you were behind that. I'm like, this is
the most embarrassing plot that I've ever And then the
(18:22):
British Nurst comes into play with that, because they are
these like kind of Victorian bridesmaid dresses and all these
like Hollywood women with my phone faces and they just
look so ridiculous, and they're like, this is a joke, right,
And then she's like, no, I thought it'd be really nice,
and they're like and then She's like, well, obviously none
of you should be in my wedding. We shouldn't be
friends and we should give Carrington the law firm. And
(18:42):
Carrington's like, ha ha, my plot worked. And I was
like the plot of the ugly bridesmaid's dress. That was
your big swing, that was your big player, and it worked.
We need to talk about Carrington. Yes, let's leave the
Laura for now. We can come back to her. She
goes through some stuff and her facial expression never changes.
That's the hard thing is like I understand stunt casting, Yes,
(19:05):
boy do I understand it, and I think Grime Murphy's
really good at it. But you can't stunt cast a lead.
You can't lead. I think what we're saying it like
this show couldn't hang on Kim No absolutely not claims
about her having top billing, like she shouldn't have had
top billing. No, because she can't emote, She can't carry
the show. She doesn't give any insight to the character.
(19:25):
I mean, these are all really good actresses, but a
show like this doesn't need an award winning actress, but
it just needs something to pull you in. And she
should have been a side character who they wheeled in
every couple of scenes, every few episodes, and then every
time you see her on screen, you'd be like, Oh,
what's she gonna do? Like Kim Karashian's here, She's meant
to be the emotional plot point. There's no emotion. The
(19:45):
only time we see emotion from is when she's putting
the bridesmaids dress on. Yeah, and I think that's an outtake.
They filmed an out take because you can see them
all look at each other and they start laughing. Yeah.
And it's the only time Kim's face moves during the
whole shot. And when you actually get her real laugh,
yes's her real laugh, yes, which we all know because
we've heard it so many times on the show. She
doesn't have a particularly elegant laugh, but in the moments
(20:08):
through the show where she does laugh, it's like a
little tinker like. So that is her laugh and her
Kim laughing very different. And in that moment, she's just
being herself because I think that the cameras on them
and they break and they kept it in and it's
the only time you get real emotion and it wasn't
meant to happen. Yeah, So getting onto Yes Carrington, what
did you love about that character? And or hate? Literally everything?
(20:28):
Like absolutely everything. They are the best lines they were
delivered on a TV show. A particularly favorite one, Yeah,
A pussy. Yeah, that was great. It was just so good,
like talking about her dead cat, yeah, but referring to
it as her dead pussy and how she couldn't stop
petting it that her mum had to tell it. It
(20:50):
was just so funny and Sarah delivered it so well.
And it just didn't stop but kept going, just kept going,
and no wonder so much of the trailer was just
those one was like I think people like tuned into
sort of see how kN kadash she would act in
the first trailer, but then they kind of stayed around
for the Sarah Paulson all her or quips everything with
that character. I mean, she plays a villain very well,
(21:11):
we know that for American horror story. Everything even just
about the initial look that she had and the gloves
and then finding out the layering of the storyline behind
why she dressed like that, Yes, for sure, And like
it's so funny because it starts off in that first
episode where she is kind of accused of being ugly,
which Sarah Pulson is so beautiful, so weird when they
(21:32):
try to sign someone, it's almost like we're watching a
turn and everyone's like, well, males teller is so hot,
so and that's a plot point, Like it's just a
plot po is it? And also Sarah Paulson being the
ugly duckling, I was like, unless she made her look ugly, yeah,
which they didn't didn't. They didn't all helped. She looked
gorgeous but she just didn't have I don't know, as
much filler. Yeah, she just looked more natural, is really it?
(21:54):
So I guess, you know, and I guess in those
circles maybe that is ugly. I don't know. And also
Elaura is meant to be this bombshell, and obviously Kim
cush she is like, he's beautiful, so he's one kind
of against her. But yeah, I love to set up
her character. This is where the show is a good
show because the backstory of them all being in that
law firm together and them choosing not to take her,
even though Kim Kardashian's delivery was terrible in that scene. Otherwise,
(22:16):
you can't just have these women stiping each other. There's
no steaks, no The stakes of watching them in that
mediation room and watching them come at each other and
knowing that they had this very emotional ten year history
makes those scenes so believable. Otherwise, you like, growing women
wouldn't act like that, But growing women with that amount
of emotional baggage and the feeling of being the one
who was left out, Yeah that I understand that driving
(22:39):
her in such a way when they're like to her,
why can't you let it go. You have everything, like
they kind of do allude to the fact that her
firm is more successful, she wins more cases, she makes
more money, so technically she's the winner, but she can't
let it go. And I really relate to that. You
know what she reminded me of ye was a much
more full on Sue Sylvester, Like she had that same
(23:04):
kind of meanness with her lines and her delivery and
the way that she went at them. But it was
like r rated. Yeah, her line to the standouts, which
when you look back at Clayte, that's what everyone talks
about exactly. The thing is like that gets tired, like
Sue Sylvester would have got tired if they didn't give
her these emotional black backstories and plot points and these
(23:26):
softer moments so that the harder moments hit harder because
a straight up villain's boring anyone who's just I mean,
for the sake of it. And I though that's why
I thought that what they did quite well with Carrington.
And I also I know that a lot of the
initial reviews said even Sarah Paulson can't say this, and
there's a lot of trick to that, but I also
think that there's some truly lovely acting moments from her
in this The look on her face when she finds
(23:48):
out that they're not taking her to the law firm,
the naked kind of hurt and pain in her eyes
is so good. But also the side storyline of her
being a mother the mum I thought worked so well.
It was beautiful, wasn't it. Like it was really interesting
to watch that and that dynamic then for her because
you feel, like, you know, in those first few episodes
(24:09):
when you don't know that she's just this kind of workaholic,
somewhat psychotic like woman who all she does is work
and seek vengeance and hate, and then she's got this
whole other life that you don't expect. Yeah, it's so
interesting because like in your head, like I don't know
about you, but I really assigned her a backstory based
on what I've been told, and because the show came
(24:31):
across very surface level, I assigned her a very surface
level backstory where I was like, oh, she just lives
in this dark, creepy pent house apartment, you know, where
she's like so rich, but she just like is like
very lonely and like it's all that she doesn't get
joy from anything outside, and that she'll almost like she
words down at the courtroom, but they actually barely spend
(24:52):
any time in a courtroom. They're not doing courtrooms. They're
like backdoor deals and mediations, which I think is probably
very true. Actually it probably is a divorce. Yeah, yeah,
it wasn't a courtroom drama. They're probably all just like,
we're not going to look good here, like we need
to be now, we need to spend all the time
in our boardroom where we need lacquered. Yeah, she's not
like old, yeah, all that sort of stuff, and so like, yeah,
(25:13):
with Carrington, I just assume that she kind of just
like wore down at the end of the day and
didn't exist. And so seeing her like like like a
highly active romba, like a really angry, swearing rebuff. It
was really believable watching her be in that mum roll
because you can see that she's a little bit sharp
with her daughter, but you also get the idea that
(25:34):
she's the only person in her life who she kind
of speaks to in that more caring way, and she
as a woman knows what it's like to be the
one who's not included and who's left out. And so
when she sees that fate happen to her daughter, the
look of tragedy and regret on her face, it's almost like,
that's the worst thing I could have wished for you
is to feel rejected the way I've been rejected even
(25:56):
though I'm successful. And so that was a really heartbreaking moment.
Yeah it was, and thank goodness it was given to
Sarah yet exactly to kind of well, I mean had
some heartbreaking moments too, like again, but she just couldn't
deliver on them. This should have been a great plot
point when she goes into the fertility clinic and is like,
this is the last chance for me to have these
(26:17):
embryo's the last chance for me to be a mother.
I always want that. She's like stolen from her husband. Yeah,
doesn't know about it, and she's forging the paperwork, and
you see the sort of like pain in her face.
We don't actually don't se any pain in face, but
you should see pain in her face as she's making
the decision. That's like a huge plot point as well,
but it just doesn't land. Even when she finds out
(26:38):
she's not pregnant. She comes out of the bathroom store
to dinner and she's like, I'm not pregnant, and I
was like, give us something us is you're meant. This
is meant to be a tragedy for you. You broke the law,
you risked everything for this because you wanted it more
than anything, and now it hasn't worked and it's your
last chance and you just suppose it. Can't even blink. No.
The plot points are funny because they don't really go anywhere,
(27:00):
and sometimes they don't go anywhere for so long that
you've forgotten about them. Yeah, and then you're like do
they really matter? In the same way the court cases
that they're all the divorces that they're working on each
episode also are like who cares? Yeah? I thought that
was not that I thought the show was going to
be about the law, but like it really does get
(27:20):
away from I thought it was going to be more
of that, like guest Star of the week coming in
and we started strong, which was amazing. We did start strong,
some of those storylines that they have a favorite guest star,
Jessica Simpson. Jessica Simpson was great. I loved it and
it was so funny because when she comes in and
she looks terrible, right, I mean you learn later there's
a reason for it, But I like watching it was like,
(27:42):
oh God, like, what happened? What happened to do you? Jess? Like?
She looks terrible. That's then part of her storyline is
that she's had all this botched surgery because her husband's
forced her to have it to try and make it
look young and whatever, and then so she wants to
sue him for doing that to her. But it's such
a fun, camp Ryan Murphy esque La Wild storyline that
(28:05):
I really enjoyed it. I love to say jess I
wanted her to have a bigger role. Yeah, to be honest,
because I thought the significance you're right of her being
there was huge. One is that I love how much
she's just openly excited about being friends with Kim Kardashi
in real life, which I feel as if very relatable.
It's like Jessica Simpson has been famous for most of
her life. Was fifteen, yeah, and she's like a millionaire
in her like I think Shoeline made like a billion
(28:27):
dollars or something like that. And bath products, remember that
Jessica Simpson bath product and if she used them, Oh,
my god deserved dessert and they didn't smell good. I did.
It was too much to taste them. Oh yeah you
could eat that. Yeah, it's supposed to. But they tasted
really sweet. It's like the body cream was literally just
thick chocolate. Yeah, and everyone's like, I'm gonna put shampoo.
(28:47):
Was just like it was just like actual vanilla, like
not vanilla scented like a pump. It was like it
was like barthing and cake and you're all just like whoa, yeah,
so sick. It was almost like the pump packs that
have behind the counter at Starbucks. That was like basically
it was like bathing and Starbucks. And my friends were
all teens were like, oh, Jessica's amazing products were sexy.
She made a lot of money. She made so much
(29:08):
money and had a clothing line in particular act the
clothing line selling it all in like seas and you
know that she went because she's like, yes, is my
lowest a smart girl and people don't or she listens
to smart people, which is also smart yes, because she's like,
my fans aren't going to go shop in like these
really high end boutiques. They need to go to Walmart,
which is where she sold some of her shoes and things,
and so she made a lot of money. And so
(29:30):
her daughter and Northwest go to school together, and so
she's all about the posting, like when she's like over
at Kim's or well like when her daughter Maxwell gets
invited to sleep over. And I was like, it's just
very social crimeery, but in like a really cute way. Yeah,
and it's funny because Jess was famous before Kim. Yeah,
and that's famous, so so famous. But also and I
think this is really fun with bringing Jess on the show.
(29:54):
Her marriages have been very famous. So I mean her
reality TV show was newly Wed, so we saw that,
we saw her marriage play out, and then all the
world watched while it broke down exactly, so she became
very much to no one for divorce and no one
for like being the woman who was like trying to
date these men and like you know, and people were
like talking about her being like sad and alone. And
(30:14):
then when she married her husband, they had their kids,
like she finally got this happy ending, and then the
storyline around their divorce was negative towards her. And so
I feel like, because she did a lot of press
for this show for being a guestar. But she was
just like, put me in, coach, I'll do every red
carp I'll do every interview, talk about it so much,
And she was talking about finding redemption after going through
her own divorce, of going in and playing this woman,
(30:35):
and so I love that for her and I want
her to come back in season two. Same. I do
think she loved seeing but you know whatever, Like, yeah,
they can do anything. Yeah, could bring her back for
another round. She would be so up for it. Someone
else who I really loved in this show and who
I thought really elevated the storyline was Niche Nash as
(30:56):
Emerald Green. Amazing ten. I mean, first of all, great actress, Yes,
great actress, great to say, and definitely was kind of
like the moral compass them all, which was nice, but like, yeah,
so there was definitely purpose to that character, whereas yeah,
well the thing is and nothing against Naomi Watts is
(31:17):
a great actress. And I know someone who we've both
interviewed super lovely loves mom and me. I often likes
her stuff, yeah, which is nice. Love her could cut
her on the shoulder and make no difference, right, And
there's times where she's just missing ageous as well. I mean,
like she may have been busy, she might have been
doing a couple of projects Jet getting the Jets to
Wonder and then there was an episode whe'd actually forgotten
(31:38):
about her and then someone mentions her. I was like, oh,
like Liberty, that's oh yeah, Naomi. We haven't seen Naomi
and herbs thing like getting proposed to and then finding
out that he had like taken this high loan all this,
so they tried to give her stakes, but it's like
she was out of the main storyline so much. Some
people have said, I don't think this is true because
(31:58):
I think if she signed on for the show, she
signed on for the show. Some people have said that
part of her signing on was that she wanted to
be away from the main cast because she didn't like
acting off Kim and she didn't get pulled, and why
would she sign on. She wouldn't dumb, Like yeah, I
think that they were just trying to sort of broaden
the story out and give her this separate storyline. But
what it did was just make her so forgettable that
when you look back through a lot of the scenes
(32:20):
and like you could just cut her out and nothing
would change at the end of the day, It's really
a Lura and Carrington show to quite an extent. Definitely,
I completely agree, And I think to bring it back
to Emerald, that was a necessary character, Like we needed
that kind of relief between the woodenness of Kim and
then like the huge acting and personality that we got
(32:42):
from Sarah. Yeah, exactly. And also, if I had to
pick any of them that I would go and watch
a spin off show, I would watch Emerald spin off show. Yeah,
with her triplets. Yes, I freaking loved that. It was
another twist. I didn't expect all these women to have
these home lives because the show felt so insular and
kind of very much about like just them at work.
So I just assumed that she was just like a
(33:03):
fabulous rich woman who would just party after work. And
when you realize that she's got triplets that she decided
to have with a like look twenty five. Yeah, they're
in high school and so they were like overachieving and
her family dynamic at home I loved. Yeah, I loved
the dynamic with her and the boys. I also loved
her much. They loved her, and I would a little
too much when one of them said she looked bangable. Yeah. Yeah,
(33:27):
there's a questionable line there. There's a questionable line. But
I was like, oh, if there was any spinoff i'd watch,
it would be Emerald in Her Emerald and the Navigating Life. Yeah.
But then this is why I don't know what to
do with this show, because sometimes it's so campy and ridiculous,
and you have like Elizabeth Berkley's character, who I loved
her being in there too, from Showgirls and from Saved
(33:47):
by the Veloping, this iconic actress who really lost her career,
exactly the kind of person that Ryan Murphy would pluck
and put in a show. Totally like you have her
jump off the building and just kill herself, and like
everyone's like, oh, okay, So the tone of the show
is like, oh so, like there's no stakes and nothing matters,
And the next moment you're watching the show of Emerald
being raped, which horrific, but also all of a sudden,
(34:08):
it's very serious, and that is serious. But I'm just like,
it feels very jarring because this feels like a fantasy
show that has no stakes, and now you're giving me
a very serious plot line that everyone's treating very seriously,
and I don't know where it fits into them. It's
interesting because the clients they take on have these insane storylines,
you know, like the one with the safe full of
(34:28):
millions of dollars worth of jewelry, but they're all quite
fanciful and ridiculous. So obviously are people that hire lawyers
that have millions and millions and million dollars and they're
going through these crazy divorces or whatever with intense prenups
and everything. But the clients they take on are utterly ridiculous,
which is typical of a TV series, Like the storyline
(34:49):
of that show kind of then informs what's going on
in the other you know, the main women's lives, the lawyers' lives,
so they intersect in that way and they use them
as plot carriers they go nowhere. It's a bit strange.
But then what is interesting then is for these women
who are or playing divorce attorneys the way that their
(35:10):
own personal lives, like how they've been stunted as well,
like emotionally and in their romances because I guess of
what they're exposed to, which that's interesting because that would
be real, yes, you know, there would be so many
divorce attorneys that then have seen the foulest ways that
people treat each other, Then how do you have trust
(35:31):
like you can understand? Like with Liberty's character, Naomi, what's
character like, why she's so ambivalent about getting married when
she's like, I want to take it slow because she's
seen the worst, Yeah, and she doesn't want her personal
life to mirror her worst yes. Yeah, And then it
kind of does, of course, and its Emerald whips out
her computer, It's like, I'll look him up. I'm like,
first of all, why don't you do that? Ages ago?
And also no good will ever come of this because
(35:52):
every time she looks anyone up in her magic computer,
her magic computer where she finds just the worst things
about people. But actually that was so awful when Emerald,
who had sworn off dating, gets talked into putting herself
out there and then that happens, and it's horrific. Yeah,
I didn't love that. I didn't either. I just felt
(36:13):
obviously it's allfull. You don't want to watch any woman
go through that on screen. No, But at the same time,
it just felt like it wasn't something that this show
could properly deal with, and it didn't, and it just
felt so out of place, and as you say, it
was jarring because everything else had been quite silly and
camp and their clients, like their stories were all silly
and camp and kind of overly overly sexualized but in
(36:36):
a consensual way. Or you know, the billions of dollars
of jewelry and look, they were all just ridiculous. So
then to have this quite real thing happened, yeh, was
jarring and fell out of place in the show. And
it does and they obviously did because they like set
out to like look for this man and take him
down and obviously what happens to him and everything. But
at the same time, like because of how the show
is and the style of it, they did have to
move on from it. And so it's kind of like
(36:58):
you have this moment in time and they move on
to other things, and then there is some sad moments,
like with Dina's husband dying. Also er O'Neil pops up. Yes,
it's so good. I mean, that was an interesting storyline
because she can't let him go. Yeah, and that again,
that's where the tone changed because all of a sudden, like, yes,
it's kind of creepy. That she's keeping her dead husband's
(37:19):
body upstairs and while anyone touch it. But it does
fill in tone with the show, yes, whereas the Emerald
situation did it. But it also moves the plot along
because Carrington had to be able to come back into
the fold in that way, and you had to have
like Liberty and the others be pushed aside to make
ways for the finale. And that's how we did that.
And I think that's it, like the Emerald moment, like
it's too real, whereas everything else is so highly stylized
(37:40):
and silly and ridiculous that it just felt yeah yeah,
which kind of moves us into the finale, which a
lot happened and nothing happened, which is I think the
tagline of the show show because it did really cent
her on Dina being and it is kind of interesting.
This is the thing like Ryan Murphy, He's got all
the players in the right spot, he just couldn't land
the plane. Maybe season two where he's like, Dina is
(38:02):
this all powerful, all knowing everyone bows down to, everyone
loves her character in the show, and so the catalyst
for Carrington finally turning against her is when she's trying
to figure out who voted against her for her to
come into the law firm. Also her coming to the
law firm, that's a terrible idea. Why are they even
entertaining that that's know me? What's his best moment? Basically,
(38:23):
she's like, well, if you guys, let Carrington, you'll still
be looking for someone because, over my fucking dead body,
will I work with her? I'm like, that is a
true emotion. The first time anyone this show has spoken sense.
You can't bring her into your law and have coffee
with her in the break when she's literally trying to
try to attack you across the table, slept with your
eggs husband. Not that they have to work with people
that you like in a law firm like this, but
(38:44):
also you can't work with people you hate. But also
you can't work with someone that you don't trust, assault
that will sleep with your husband, like for revenge. Yeah,
I want to just trust walking into the courtroom with them,
and I don't think they should even again, it's a
weird time. That's I think the only thing that you
could say to really take Carrington laid down is that
these women her crazy insults at each other about their
(39:07):
looks and their lives and their families and stuff, and
nothing sticks because they've said at all. Yeah, the only
thing that you could hurt Carrington with is what they
have Dina do, which is when she says, I don't
choose you. Because through all of this, Dina was still
her mentor the way that she was Liberty's mentoring, in
the way she was Laura's mentor, and so it was
the only thing holding them all together, that this woman
cared for all of them. And I think that was
(39:29):
Carrington's thing that was carrying her through, is like she
always felt like she had one foot in the circle
because of Dina. And then when Dina says, I didn't
vote for you, and only did I not vote for
you to come to join the law firm. But I've
now realized that the others were right all along, and
they could just smell the stink on you before I could.
And I never felt love for you. I've only ever
felt pity. Yeah, it's good character development because it's the
(39:50):
only thing that could propel Carrington to do what she
does next, Yes, which is a cat slight her, which
is take them all down from the inside. It's so
funny that little book where she just has their names
right now and she crosses each one else is so
like mean girls, Esque's and very Taylor. I've got a
list of names. And yes in red underline, Ryan Murphey
(40:13):
was listening to that album. Ye. This was a reputation.
This was a reputation series, a reputation the series. The
best bit was when she crossed out Liberty's name after
the bridesmaids dress and the next moment she's framed Dina
for murder. I'm like, two different but they both worked.
And now we end the season with like, so she's
tricked the other lawyers. So here's the thing. At this point,
(40:36):
I was like, Okay, you're just I no know. I
was like, this is what I wanted all along. Carrington
is the star, Yeah, of this show. She's giving up
all pretends that Kim was the star of this show. Yes,
so let her have the front half coming home strong
with Sarah Yeah exactly, and her having all the one
liners in her It really is her show. And it's
(40:58):
interesting because I was reading an interview with the executive
producer who also directed a few of the scenes, and
he was talking about Kim's acting and stuff getting better,
but He's also like, oh, there's so many things we
had to cut. I was like, I friakin bet you guys.
Did I think she was meant to be more of
I think she peters out as a show goes along.
The Illura character doesn't have as much to do and
I will go out on a limb that I think
(41:19):
they didn't cut too much. But there's a few big
scenes that have been cut because they just couldn't get
her there. Yeah, she just wasn't giving anything, And there's
so many Carrington scenes. And I think when they did
the edit, if it had been a stronger actress in
the Kim Kardashian part, maybe it would have been more
of an even cut. But it just feels that they've
cut more of Kim's and left more of Sarah Paul's them,
which of course you would if you're looking at an
(41:39):
editor of the two of them together. Oh, it's actually
so daunting, and like, honestly, hats off to Kim that
she was willing to stand there and be a scene partner.
Was absolutely, Yeah, that's the hard thing. It's like there's
a certain kind of bravery in that. Yeah, there is
in throwing yourself into not just naivity, do we think.
I also just think she's so used to being the
(41:59):
winner in every room. Yeah, yes, exactly, And she's so
used to be like she's the most famous person. I'm
sure it didn't occur to her that it was strange
for her to have toiling over these actresses because and
in her head used to be Yeah, I mean she
had top feeling over her family. I think it's the
first thing that she couldn't kind of like curate away. Yeah,
because like when you're on the screen acting, that's it.
Like there's tricks you can do, but there's not a lot.
(42:22):
This is what I say when Neppo babies also get
really famous, it was like, yes, you can get in
the room and all of them get in the room
over better talented people. Yeah, but once you're on the
camera and you're carrying a movie or a TV show,
you can either do it or you can't. Yeah, and
she can't do it well, you know, and she's made
that joke about herself, you know, not bad for a
girl with no talent, right. I think that's one of
her like famous lines that we've all heard trotted out
(42:42):
that I guess, like for my take on the show,
is I guess not bad for a girl with no
talent like she but she doesn't have talent. No. I
wonder how much of her will see in season two. Yeah,
I'd be interested in that because she still build as
the lead. And it's interesting because I think she obviously
does have a lot of talent, but she's her talent
is an imagery. Yeah, her talent isn't like creating an
(43:03):
image and seeing it through and knowing how to create
a product like she like she has talent is in headlines, yes,
and that is not easy to do. It's not And
I think what you said about like at the top
of this about the views at the beginning of the show,
people were tuning in for Kim. Ryan knew that Kim
knows that she gets headlined. She gets eyes on her exactly,
(43:24):
and she is always the one who says, like, my
family want to cut things out of the Kartashians, like
where we look bad, and she's the one who's like,
put it back in. That's the show, that's the drama.
And she's the one who'll sacrifice looking beautiful in a
red carpet forgetting a headline, like covering her face or
something like she's very smart, yeah, and interesting and everything.
But I just think, like when she releases a song,
they can edit the song when she like they say,
like she's written this, Like no, she hasn't. But like
(43:46):
with the acting, you can't. You can't. They probably can't
make it eye. But overall I would say all's fair.
Like it's biggest sin is not that the acting is bad,
and it's biggest sin is not that the plot didn't
go anywhere. At the end of the day. I just
founded a little bit boring, did you I did a
little bit? Hey, you know what. I enjoyed it, which
(44:07):
I think partly is because it's this time of year
and I've got nothing left in my change so watching
something that takes a lot of focus is feels really
hard right now. Whereas this was just something I could
dip in, watch go in with like no expectations actually
going thinking this is going to be terrible, and it's
(44:29):
actually I found it quite entertaining. But last night, when
I crammed the last three episodes and watched three back
to back, it felt like hard work. And it's the
thing is I love non prestige TV. Give me like
a crappy show about women in a big city getting
coffee and stuff. But the thing is, with a lot
of those shows, there's a heart to them, yeah, and
they sometimes is a genuine humor, or there's a comfortingness
to it or something. And I sometimes think that, like,
(44:51):
really watchable TV is the hardest thing to make. I know,
people feel like dramas the hardest thing, or like really
intense comedy is the hardest thing. But I find like
TV shows that you want to immerse yourself in, and
this felt like it should be that. Yeah, it should
be one of those shows like, Oh, I can't wait
to sit down and watch this and watch each episode
over and over again. I can't watch that again. Do
you think it's fair that it's been called the worst
(45:12):
shop of the year? Maybe? Yeah, maybe to be fair again,
I don't hate it, but I just think it had everything,
and for the fact that it's still not that watchable
is a pretty far fall. I think I just loved
Sarah so much that I can't say that about it.
But then if you ask me what was the worst
show of the year, I can't think of it. I
just can't think of anything I've watched. I guess because
(45:33):
there's other shitty things we wouldn't give the time of day.
We give the time of day this. So is it
the worst show I've watched this year? Yeah? Maybe? Yeah?
Do you think it was worse than And just like
that Norman, just like that still has a heart to it,
and just like that still is a world I want
to live. And I watched one of those episodes. I
feel like I've got a lot of goodwill for that
because of the years and years that I spent loving
sex and the City and loving those characters. But I
(45:56):
feel like I enjoyed All's Fair this year more than
I enjoyed And just like God and how that information
and just like that defend us well again, I find
a heart and a joyfulness to that show that they
didn't always have. But that, to me feels like a
fully formed world. This feels like Ryan Murphy moving dolls
(46:17):
around on the sound stage, which is exactly what it is. Yeah,
I don't know, You're probably the one that's right here.
Like I know that I'm wrong and I know that
you're right. It became a cultural talking point, and I
think that's what they wanted at the end of the day.
That's what this executive producer who talked to the Hollywood
Reporter said he said that Ryan Murphy got what he
wanted because everyone is talking about this, and I find
(46:38):
that so true. It was like he wanted to create
a cultural moment. He created a cultural moment. It made
him a lot of money. And now they've been renewed
for season two. And this is an expensive show to make.
Think of the clothes, the salary, the sets, the guest
star prices. There's no way Hulu's saying yes to that
unless they're getting money back for it. Absolutely, so we
get to do this all again next year. Will you
be watching obviously? I mean, wait, it is my job,
(47:00):
but I'm probably cheatedn't out of curiosity, But I hope
they find their feet a bit more in season two.
They sort of let everyone go on their strengths and
Kim Kardashing can just in it looking hot as all hell,
and they can kind of peter that out a little
bit and just yeah, bring that in. I feel like
it's not going to be great next year. No, no,
but we'll stay tuned for season two. Well, thank you
(47:22):
so much for joining us today. And did you know
that Spill has a YouTube channel, so you can watch
the show every day and see all of our behind
the scenes content, and we popped a link in the
show notes for you to check it out and make
sure you're following us. And Morning Tea drops a new
episode every weekday at seven am to get you up
to speed on all the celebrity headlines before you go
into work, so you will find that here in this feed.
(47:44):
The Spill is produced by Minitia It's Warren with sound
production by Scott Stronik. Bye Bye, Mumma Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this podcast
on the Gatigor people of the Orination. We pay our
(48:06):
respects to their past and present and extend that respect
to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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