A Brutally Honest Review Of Too Much On Netflix

You asked, we delivered. Ever since Lena Dunham’s new Netflix series Too Much dropped, Spillers have been sliding into our DMs dying to hear what Laura and Em think… and today, we’re going deep.

We unpack how the show draws from Lena’s real life, how it stacks up against Girls, and why it’s not really the rom-com it’s being marketed as. From the scenes we loved to the ones that completely wrecked us (yes, one of us cried), it’s a brutally honest review with zero filter.

Whether you loved it or are still unsure what you just watched, this is the post-watch debrief you didn’t know you needed.

LISTEN:
Love our Brutally Honest Reviews? Check out more: 
A Brutally Honest Review Of Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders Season 2

Want more of our thoughts on our favourite TV shows?
Listen to We Have Notes For And Just Like That & Sarah Jessica Parker’s Famous Secret Boyfriend

Finished Too Much and want more suggestions? 
Check out The Best Romantic Comedy TV Shows Of All Time

READ:

Check out Laura's review of Too Much here. 

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Hosts: Laura Brodnik and Em Vernem
Executive Producer: Monisha Iswaran
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
So you're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders
that this podcast is recorded on.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to this spill your daily pop
culture fix.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm m Vernon and I'm Laura Brudnick.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Okay, I've been waiting for this moment. It's been a week,
but I've been waiting for longer, it feels like.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
But we had to build up longer than a week
because we've been talking about this show since it was
first announced.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Build up for this show, and I'm so happy that
we watched it. Because we are doing a very special,
brutally honest review of Lena Dunham's Too Much on Netflix.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
Jess, something has shifted with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Josh Hi, how are you?

Speaker 4 (01:01):
Girl? Are your code? You're unhappy leaving me.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's the worst thing everyone's ever done.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Change your life to London.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
You love London US the Spice World nine times in
the theater.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I could do it.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I could go and find my English dream.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
You know, a state ground starting gardens.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
Good luck with love one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Do the singing guy.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
I'm Phoenix. By the way, You've got like an American accent.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Let me guess you like one of those love actually girls.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
This is the London I came here for. I ot
of a movie.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Yeah, horror movie is these people are full of pent
up rage and dark secrets.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
I know we'd look at the Yellow House.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
So I hope you watched it because we are diving deep,
and we're not only just talking about the show and
the big themes and what everyone's talking about. We're also
talking about what not everyone is talking about. And we're
also talking about behind the scenes moments, stuff that you
might not have heard but we have.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
So again, can't stress enough how there'll be spoilers, behind
the scenes facts, and we only do brutally honest reviews
if you don't across the four the biggest new TV
shows and movies that everyone is talking about. So we
can dive deep because we all know once you finish
watching a new TV show or a movie and it
takes up your mind, you become obsessed with it the
way we have been obsessed with this show. All you

(02:29):
want to do is talk about it and hear other
people talk about it. And guys, we've got all your
messages and your emails and your DMS requesting this specific show.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
So here we go.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Can I actually give our listen there's a bit of
a tip. Oh sure, cuz I've just worked out the
best way to listen to our braadly honest reviews.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh okay, Wow, you get.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Your friends over, okay, after you've all watched the TV
show a movie, and then you play our podcasts and
then pause, and then with each other either agree or
argue with what you said, and then press play and
then pause again and then agree and argue. Because what
happens is is whenever you watch a show, and this
has happened with me with too much, with this specific
show where I was at a dinner with four of

(03:10):
my friend ends and everyone's like, okay, have you watched it?
Have you watched it? Have you watched it? One person says,
I haven't watched the last episode. You're standing outside, yeah,
because we need we need to do and you'll do it.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Your poor time management cannot stop this conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
You need to have unhealthy habits with cinema and TV
like the rest of us. So you have to watch
all the episodes. Ten episodes. I watched them in a night,
which I don't recommend because you.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Were messaging me.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
I did send a lot of photos of my live
reactions to Albi. We should actually post them, Oh, we should.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Emily was crying and she's not a big crier, so
I was quite confronted.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
But I am very very passionate about this particular Brilli.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Ho Yes, Okay, so much to get into, so too
much the new show on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's not Lena Dunham's return to TV. Obviously.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
She was the creator, writer, and star of Girls, which
was one of those TV shows that just really changed
the shape of TV and really set its own tone,
and that has found a whole new audience in recent years,
even though it ended back in twenty seventeen.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
Girls is one of those shows where I wish I
could re watch for the first time.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, I know, there's so many people I know who
haven't watched it, and so I said when they look
disappointed when they say that, like I haven't watched it,
I was like, no, no, now's your chance.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
And it holds up.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
In fact, maybe now people would even take it in
in the spirit in which it was intended, because it
wasn't meant to be even though it is very much
about friendship. And that's what I find really interesting about
hearing Lena Dunham talk about the line of Girls to
Too Much, like they're both stories pulled from her real
life experiences. Even though Girls the center is friendship and

(04:44):
too Much the center is romantic love. But both of
them are meant to be like just these characters who
are almost like exasperations of people.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
They're not meant to be.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
These kind of cookie cut out lovable TV characters.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
They're very raw, real.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, they want to be meant to be half hour comedy,
and I think people are only really a lot of
people only Girls Now, in the spirit of which is intended,
is that Lena Dunham wasn't the joke. She was in
on the joke, Yeah, WHI is when when her character
says I'm the voice of a generation, she's tapping into
people she actually kind of is. She's tapping into people
who think that way at that point in their lives.
So even though since Girls ended, she's done a lot

(05:20):
of different TV and film, but more behind the camera. Yeah,
she made a really strong choice apart from doing like
a few little cameos here and there, liking Once upon
a Time in Hollywood, but that's only because she really
wanted to stand across from Brad Pitt's stare at him,
and she did. And at the end of the day,
she's just a girl.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
What I love about Lena Dunham's comedy is that because
of who she is as a person. And I feel
like a lot of people made this mistake with girls
because it was like about friendship and stuff. People just
assumed it was like comedy sitcom and it's not that.
It's like it can be quite dark comedy at times exactly.
And when I was talking about too Much and Girls
with my friends, I noticed, I like, you either loved

(05:59):
them or you hated them. And I think that's because
with the comedy, a lot of people watch comedy to
either feel something deeply or to escape from feeling something,
and Lena Dunham's comedy is the comedy you watched to
feel something deeper.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yes, oh my god, Emily, there's venem that is so
so so true.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
I'm going tomm no one's to feel her.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
So the build up to this show is one of
the best things about it and also one of the
best things from the marketing. So yes, Lena Dunham hasn't
really been in ours screens since Girls.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
That was a very conscious choice in her behalf.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
She was also writing and directing so many things that
Camping TV show she did, like a few movies and things.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
She also did Catherine.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Called Bertie, which is the very sweet book adaptation that
stars Bella Ramsey. It was actually on that project that
she met the man who made this TV show and
everything else happened, Louis Felber, the Peruvian English rocker indie
musicians sounds very sexy.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
And it's not sound so sexy.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
I'd love someone to introduce me with all those different
descriptors Indie rocker, Peruvian.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
British so so sexy.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
It was during like a lot of the COVID lockdowns,
but when different productions open back up, you could quarantine
be in a bubble. So Lena Dunham traveled the UK
by herself, knew no one. She was fresh off a breakup,
not fresh off the Jack Antonoff breakup.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Which a lot of people think, yes.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Which a lot of people have drawn a line between
those those relationships, but it's not quite as clear cut
as that. So Elena Dunham had broken up with Jack
Antonov in twenty eighteen. She was with him all the
way through Making Girls and the height of her fame,
and he was this really cool composer a musician, and
she was like the ultimate cool TV girl, and people

(07:39):
were very obsessed with their relationship.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, and the connection with Taylor Swift because she was
Taylor Swift's best friend and he was Taylor Swift's writer.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, and very like close collaborator.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
So their relationship ended apparently there was someone in between,
some guy who treated her badly and she just had
a bit of a rocky breakup with his other short
fleeing after her very long relationship with Jack antonoff ended
and like with Jack Antonoff, like she had said stuff
on like you know, publicly, like that she wanted to
marry him, and he kind of made a joke of it.

(08:09):
She said that she had their baby names picked out
and he kind of laughed it off, Like I know
there's more to the story than that, but it was
this kind of thing of when that they their relationship ended.
It was kind of seeing that she was a jilted
one in that and that people thought that he had
hooked up with Lord, who is seen as the ultimate
cool girl.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Was it Lord?

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (08:30):
There is so much there is so much background.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
I thought who it was because it was way way
too early for it to be Margaret Quality.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
No, so this will be important later on when we
talk about Emily Radikowski's character, because a lot of people
do think that she is an amalgamation of Lord and
Margaret Quality to an extent. But no, people always thought
that there was crossover with Lord and Jack Antonov and
Lena Dunham.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Oh, messy, messy, So I can see.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Why Lena Dunham hopped on a plane to the UK.
She was like, get me out of this messy world.
And she was over there and she had to quarantine,
so she was by herself, and then she was feeling
really really lonely, and so she reached out to a.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Bunch of friends.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
She says, she has three straight male friends so she
can eat always name them easily of them. And one
of these unnamed straight mails not important for this story
for him to have a name.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
It was one of another our friends.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
We're not our friends.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I can barely remember their own straight male friend names,
so we can't get into that. But she reached out
to this man who had friends in London, and said like,
I'm really lonely.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
I don't know anyone.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
He like put out a call like a burst to
everyone he knew in London, and I was like, hey,
I've got a really cool friend who like, I'd love
someone to just take her out and show her the
sights and just help her get a footing in this city.
So it wasn't even like a proper saturing.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
A nice thing to do for a friend.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Isn't that so nice? I mean, I do it for you, Oh,
I do it for you to Yeah? No, I would.
I'm just really bad at admit.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I mean to do it. And then I wouldn't send
the message if I.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Went to Brisbane, would you not message your whole family
and be like, hell no, I would do that?

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah girl, No, no, no I would. I would get
them to look after you. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
And this is why you do nice things for people,
because you might get a husband out of it. So yeah.
So then she got hooked up with Louis Felber, this
musician who she didn't know anything about him, had never
heard of his music. He also didn't know anything about her.
He wasn't across the whole girl situation. He hadn't watch
any of herself.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
She genuinely not in like a Simone Biles, like, I
don't know my Oh yeah, I know the.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Most famous gymnasts in the world. I actually do understand
that a indie rockerg kind of guy might not have
been a cross girl.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
He's too cooling.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Drags and having sex and playing Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
So they met one night in London and they just
walked around the streets like their characters doing the TV show,
talking and chatting, and they fell in love, and less
than a year later they got married in a very
chic ceremony. But can I tell you the moment she
pitched this TV show to him, the moment she said
I'm gonna make a TV show about this, because it

(10:48):
feels like it would have been just after they got
married or something like that. It was a month into dating. No,
she has recently confirmed. Yes, they hadn't even walked around
outside holding hands together. They hadn't met each other's friends
and family. They weren't even calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend.
And then Lena Dunham and I have so much respect
for her for this turned to this man that she
has just but she said she knew stra a way

(11:10):
she's going to marry him first night, and he later
on said he did too, but they hadn't said that
to each other yet.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
But I like that to every guy of me.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
No, I know this is I don't recommend that we
do this or anyone else. I would have told like
ten guys by now, like you want to make a
show together?

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Okay, this is what I might start writing some notes.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, So Lena doesn't turn to this man.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
She's like, do you want to make a show with me?
A show about our life? And then they did and
that show is too much and it's currently everyone Netflix.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
I'm that incredible. They made it together.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
That's the thing, Like I know everyone saying, like Lena Dunnaman, yes,
she is like the main writer and the main kind
of creative force behind it. But Louis, her husband, is
also you know, involved in the writing. He picked all
the music. He was the one who really wanted the
white load of style. Will Sharp to play Felix in
the movie, who's very loosely based on him.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Well why not freaking loosely?

Speaker 2 (12:00):
They look very That's why Louis was drawn to him
as an actor.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
And he's like, I want that guy because.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
That really sexy hot man.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Sexy hot man to play me exactly what I say
if I was casting myself. But he had that sort
of grungy kind of musician but brooding but also like
non threatening, yes, which I think is very much when
you see puppy dogs.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, And when you see.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Photos of Louis Felber, you're like, yeah, yeah, he's like
a grungy rocker with hard gold.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
That is insane to me, Like one month in is crazy.
But now that you've said this, the show makes The.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Show makes so much sense because you can.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Because I'm like, oh, so the exaggerated the paths I
thought were exaggerated.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, exactly, which makes me think what other parts aren't
true that she hasn't quite let on, But I think
we can figure it out. So anyway, we meet our
lead actress in the first episode. It's Jessica Jessica Salmon.
Do you know what was her name? That's her last name.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Also, Jessica is just so the perfect name because I
sometimes hate when shows have characters who have these really
almost like modern names, like I know.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
That's not a complete the name of the generation.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
It's like sometimes shows have a name they pick that's
really popular the year the show comes out. But then
you think that woman's in her mid thirties. That wouldn't
she wouldn't have been called that.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
The women would not be Maddie.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
And can I, yeah, exactly, and all these other kind
of shows that have these yeah, very even like with
running pointly not to call out Mindy Kaling, but like
calling that woman Isler, I'm like, no one was using
that name. It was Eila Fisher or no one. But
Jessica is so perfect because that character in the TV
show and I are roughly the same age, and Jessica
was the biggest name in the world then to the

(13:37):
point where I was supposed to be called Jessica. But
then my mom my mum opened the newspaper that day
to sell the birth amounts and it was just page
after page of Jessica. So she decided not to. But
like that's you look at that character, like that's exactly
what she would be called.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
She is fresh off a very brutal breakup.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yes, she breaks up with her partner Zev, and you
only find this out later in the show or like
what actually went wrong with their relationship. But I think
that first initial scene of like her breaking into their
house where he's with his current partner Emily Radakowski, which
is like also the best type of person to cast

(14:16):
for your ex's new girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
It is the most perfect casting. And this is where
I love em Ra the most when she plays these
characters where you can see that she as a performer
is so in on the joke, Like she knows that
she is seen publicly as this quintessential, overly sexualized, overly
desirable woman who doesn't really exist, and she also is
very aware of the fact that publicly she's not seen

(14:39):
as a girl's girl. She's seen as kind of like
a man trapper sort of thing. And I think that's
why you cast her in that role, because as soon
as you see her, all that baggage that we have
as women gets projected onto her character. And Jessica also
projects onto her so much as why she films all
those videos. But also interestingly enough, Emma Dakowski is friends
with almost everyone in the entertainment industry women.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
She's friends with all women and friends at all.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
She's friends with close friends with Lena.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
She's very close friends with Lena Dunnan, which is how
she got cast. Actually, something to keep in mind as
we talk about all the casting is that this is
a very rare thing that happens in TV and film.
Usually when writers working on a script, it could be
getting made ten years from when they write it. Yeah,
every so often, like writers write with a particular actor
in mind for a part, but there's no guarantee that

(15:26):
you would ever get that person because of scheduling or
money or their own interest. And again, like they could
age out of the character by the time it gets made.
Lena Dunham has set gone on the record and said
that in this show she wrote every character with a
very specific actor in mind of who would play that character,
and every single person said, yes, isn't that wild?

Speaker 3 (15:47):
That is wild? But also personally, I find that quite
surprising because Lena Dunham like so so talented, but she's
also quite a controversial person. Yeah, in media, and there
were some scenes in Too Much where I just kind
of went she's She.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Did say again, I've been reading much of interviews with her,
and she has sent in multiple interviews that she does
worry so she about putting that out there because she
wrote with very specific actors in mind. It shoud also
Be said that she wrote mostly with friends in mine,
like pretty much ever in the show is a past
coworker or a friend of hers. But she does sometimes
worry because she's sent things to people in the past
and they've been like, why do you think that I

(16:26):
would do this? Like why would you think I would
do this specific role? But it's really interesting with who
she's got in there, and especially I thought the most
interesting kind of casting line that you can see in
there is that Andrew Scott has a very.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Interesting arc that will get to you later.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
He is very, very good friends with Lena Dunham, and
when she was first kind of perculating like she was
gonna make this show, she instead of writing it yet
he said to her, you need to cast Megan Statler
in this thing. That is still a thought in your mind,
like you need to cast her. And lind Dunn hadn't
really heard of her. So she went home that night
watched everything she's ever made, all of her comedy videos.
She like watching her in the early years of Hacks,

(17:03):
and then she was like, this is the perfect actress
to play Jessica.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
And so Andrew Scott is responsible for this. What can't
that man do?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Thank you, because I love Megan Statler.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
She's so incredible.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
And what I really love about her character was she
is a plus size character and like throughout this series,
and I think this is exactly what Hollywood has done
to me and especially our generation, where you're just waiting
for like the dig on her weight. You're just waiting
for it. You're waiting for it, You're waiting for it,
and it never happens, and you just like have this
relief and there's like breath of fresh air. And this

(17:38):
is the first time I've seen even like in the
MINDI project, I'm like, she's not even plusized and there's
so many digs on her weight. Yeah, exactly women's way
way Hollywood, like you just always have one comment at least,
and this is the first time I've seen it and
it's not been like that at all, and I was
just like I can't believe it, Like I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Watching her through this show being someone who yeah, is
not that very tradition, especially now with body diversity on
screen has gone so far the other way that everyone's
very waif looking at very conventionally thin. Seeing a character
have this big love story and have these relationships and
fall in love with people, and yes, people critique her
and sometimes the way she dresses, but no one sort

(18:15):
of says to her like, isn't it so nice that
this man loves you kus your plus size, Like that's
not even a conversation. And when the show came out
and I wrote a review, I didn't even put that
in my review And I didn't even want to say
it out loud or mention it, because it's almost like
I didn't want this spell to break of everyone jumping.
I know it's important to have that conversation now, but
it's almost like I didn't even want to say it
out loud because I just wanted it to just happen

(18:37):
in past and for it to become the norm, and
I wanted it to be this thing that wouldn't warrant
a headline.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, and it also reminded me of season three of Bridgeton. Yes,
Nicola Coughlan gave such a good performance, and all the
commentary I saw was like, yes, the chemistry, and yes,
a lot of the stuff about like pleasuring women and
how that was centered, but also more than her performance,
it was about her weight and like how brave she

(19:05):
was to like have her body on screen, and I
was like, is that the whole coversation we're taking out
from this whole season and which she gave a beautiful
performance for ye and I'm so glad that we didn't
do the same thing for too.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Much exactly exactly. And it's also hard to because when
you say things like plus size and stuff like that,
I think it's really important to remind people that in
the entertainment industry but also in life, that they see
plus size as above a size twelve. Yeah, so what
you're thinking of is.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Just it's like normal size.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
So we meet.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Jessica in the first episode and she has had a
very intense breakup with Zev. Speaking of casting Michael z Egan,
who love him, but it's just really interesting to me
that he is his Like other really big role is
Joel Mazel in The marvelousnessus masl And in that he
plays a man who does the main character wrong and

(19:57):
they have a big breakup and that pushes her to
go on and have this be huge life and do
things and stuff. And I don't know if that's meant
to be like a complete line to the character, but
I love that something in Lena Dunn's mind was like
that man he does this, So yeah, this man knows
how to play a character who you can kind of
tell you can you can see why the leading lady

(20:18):
falls in love with him and why they have a relationship.
But also he just does it so well when he
just lets her and the audience down so much, and
you can see how it pushes her to start a
new life. So I love his service too to this industry.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
I think he plays a character so interestingly because it
was one of the characters where like it comes across
as actually quite likable in the first time before you
find out.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Which I think is needed because I do I get
pulled really out of reality sometimes in romcoms where the
leading lady is dating this like completely awful but uncharismatic guy,
and it's so hard. I know, we all date losers,
but it's also so much harder to believe her being
in a relationship. So I love more so when they
show that the relationship was great for a long time
and it evolved even though there were red flags, it

(21:02):
evolved into this awful situation. It's just much more believable,
I think.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
And even it makes her character more believable because you're
not like in love with her throughout the whole season,
Like there are times where I genuinely hated her really yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Oh okay, I didn't feel like that.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Sometimes I'm just like, oh my god, you're so like
you're too much, Like you're so annoying, you're too much.
And then there's obviously times that you come around. But
I think that's like where I saw Lena's writing come in,
because that's exactly how I felt about the characters and girls,
Like there were times where I hated them, yeah, and
times where I like love them, and then times I
was like, no, you don't deserve this. I'm like, yes

(21:37):
I do.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
I guess that's the whole point because that's how you
feel about people in real life.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
So you mean her.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
We get introduced that relationship and then we see Jessica
in this really kind of well.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
She cause a great garden situations, which just so great.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
She's stuck in her home with her grandmother, her mother,
her sister, and her nephew and all the casting here
is also really important.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
One Lena Dunham playing her sister.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Her older sister, I thought was really lovely because for
a lot of people like our generation included. We grew
up with Lena Dunham's Not Just Girls. But like I
used to, I've read all her writing, I've read her book,
I've listened to her podcast, and so much about the
content she makes really shaped me as a young woman.
And so I think, even though we're like pretty much

(22:18):
same age, I still think of her as a big sister,
just because she's a tad more successful than me. But
I think also you would really see her as a
big sister.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Right, Yeah. She her writing was just something I feel like,
especially if you work in the media space or the
creative space, like she is like a muse for so
many people, like her trajectory and her career and her
skill set.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
I loved her writing as someone we see as a
big sister, writing herself as the big sister. And she
also said she got asked so many times, did you
ever want to play Jessica? And she said from the
outset no, for a few different reasons. One is that
she said she just doesn't have the capacity at the
moment to be the lead actress and.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Create a show.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
She said some of that is to do with age.
She's had a lot of health problems over the years
as well, and she says she just didn't have it
in her. But she also said that she wanted to
hire the very best person for the job, and the
best person for the job wasn't her, it was Megan,
So that's understandable. And man would never Yeah, a man
would never be putting himself in there no matter what.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
You don't always have to be the lead. You can
always puss them on to someone else. I also thought
the casting of Ria Pelman is her grandmother was really lovely.
So she is one of the most acclaimed comedic actresses
of you know, all time. She's one of the most
nominated actresses from her when she was on Cheers back
in the day. I think a lot of people would
know her as the mom from Matilda Matilda's Mom, but
she's on lots of other stuff.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
She was recently in Barbie.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
But I also think that Lena Dunham has always cited
her as her comedic inspiration who she holds up as
the great like Lena Dunham sees her as the greatest
comedic actress she's ever seen. So I loved that, you know,
And she obviously wrote the role for her bringing her
in was really love.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
The whole casting of the family is so good. The
mum Rita.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Wilson, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Again such a huge part of rom comms. And also
not that it not that this matters, but married to
like one of the rom com kings of the world,
Tom Hanks.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah, really good. And I think what I loved about
the family dynamic was that it was so different to
what you usually see, because I feel like with shows
like this, it will be the young girl who doesn't know,
like her life is falling apart, she doesn't know what's
going on, and she goes back to her perfect family
you have it all together. I'm just like, come on,

(24:22):
you can do it, or like helping you, which is
kind of similar to girls like her parents for a
long time and girls were like seeing as the perfect
couple who were like, we're cutting you off, like you've
been like taking the piss, we're not giving anyone me.
And she was like, I'm the words of my generation
and also fair and then she became the voice of
my generation. And what I liked about the women and
her family was that they were all going through it.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, like they were all.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Having to live together because all their relationships didn't work
out and the poor grandma was just having to keep
the house.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
I know she's like, I've got no what a girl.
All my friends are dead. I know that's just a lot.
And then we see her having this kind of crumbling
moment at work, even though I think it's really important.
They set her up to be like really successful in
a work, a wholly kind of to give her.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
That story was so funny with Jessica Jessica Alba.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
First of all, I freaking love Jessica Albert. She she
is a great comedic actress.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
She doesn't get her Jews for that because she left Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
She left Hollywood after filming The Fantastic four Rise of
Silver Sofa when she was crying because her character was
in distress, and the director said, could you cry prettier?

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Could you not cry at all?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
The more cg the tears in later, and she went
Hollywood not for me, went away fair so opened a
billion dollar company. So she's doing great. The specifics of
this scene when Jessica comes up, this is the most
perfect writing we Jessica. It's like to her, I love
dark Angel. I wanted to be a bike messenger is
the most perfect call for elder millennials because I don't know,
because Jessica Albert's first big role where I fell in

(25:43):
love with her was the TV show Dark Angel, right,
and that's a very It only ran for like two
seasons and everyone's forgotten about it. It's a very pivotal
show for my people, for like a very specific group
of elder millennial.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
This in the cinema, you would have stood up on Clapp.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
I would still have been clapped so much. Yeah, I
love that. I just think that tension to detail is
so good.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
And then obviously Andrew Reynolds is in there as Jessica's
a strange brother in.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Law Elijah, Yes, Elijah.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
From Girls Again.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Lena Dunham is very close with him, still with Andrew Reynolds,
and wrote that part for him so good.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
And that scene where, which is what the whole Like
Too Much show is, is like you think it's gonna
go somewhere and it does the exact opposite. So the
scene is like we're seeing jess in like her first
like in her work environment, she's like a TV producer.
Her job is to make sure everything like kind of
works together, that the actors are happy she works with
like these big A list stars. So Jessica Albert does

(26:35):
play Jessica Alba and Jessica Albert is not happy with
the direction. So she comes up to jess and she's like, hey, girl,
it's your time to shine, Like this is girl empower man.
We can do this, and any other woman would be like, yes,
Jessica alber I can do this.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Jessica leaves.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
She runs away so good, and everyone's like, did you
run away from Jessica album?

Speaker 1 (27:02):
They're looking like she They're looking for you. Jesse I
was looking for you. She thinks she's in the bathroom.
She's just like, God, do this. It's so funny because
this is like overall too.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Much, very much, And Lena has said this, she really
tried to follow the beat of a traditional rom com
and there's some moments where she subverts. And that's one
of the moments because in any other kind of rom
com TV series or movie, that would be the moment
where the girl's like yeah, and she has her moment
she's like you and.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Me justice all we're gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
And the fact that she's like, I can't do this,
it's like the most relatable thing ever, so then she
gets and this only happens in rom coms or Emily
in Paris. Then her work decides to send her.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
To Europe for a little break to get her life together.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Break get it Together, does a big campaign for you
to work on. Yeah, and just come back a new woman.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, exactly, you know what could go wrong?

Speaker 2 (27:49):
I love this too because this is also very much
based on Lena Dunham's and again every every woman I
think who has who has been raised on Jane Austen
novels or like very those quintessential kind of British rom coms,
very Bruget Jones esque. In fact, that scene where when
Jess first gets to London and there's that shot of
her walking across Tower Bridge is a mirror for mirror

(28:10):
shot of a really famous scene from the first Bridget
Jones movie. Yeah, it's there for fans just to be like,
we see you, we know what you're doing. But also
this just the way people romanticize London of like I'll
get there and it's all going to be like I'm
gonna live in Pemberley and I'm going to like walk
these beautiful London streets and I'm going to meet mister Darcy.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
And she thought she was going to live in the state.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Can I just say everyone I've talked to us, like,
I can't believe she thought in the state was in
the state. And can I just say, I'm with Jessica.
I would have had the exact state. Someone tells me
you're living in a state in London, I'm thinking sprawling
mansion and mister Darcy's inside.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
It was so like funny, and I think like the
little snippets of her imagination going crazy with the pride
and prejudice scenes, and like her dressed up and like
going to the bar by herself. Yeah, like dressed up beautifully. Okay,
we have to talk about Okay.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
The meet cute for me.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Now, if you're a fan of any kind of romcom,
you know that the most important moment is the meet cute.
As explained in the Quintessent rom com The Holiday. You
know when when Arthur explains to Kate Whinson's character, I
meet cute is the moment. And this is what scriptwriters
work on. How are they going to bring their characters
together in a memorable, lovely way, in a moment where

(29:22):
you just know they're going to fall in love and
it's usually something, you know, really cute and sweet and.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Each how then they drop their coffee.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
They see each other cross a crowded room or something
like that. This isn't a disgusting pub bathroom. Yeah, I
know she sees someone stage first, but then they go
into the bathroom.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
He doesn't not see her on the stage.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
And he asked for her for some bog roll, and
I love an all the Netflix marketing. They're like, he
asked for some bog roll, and then in captions there
and then in brackets they have toilet paper toilet and
I was like, we get it, but thank you, because.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Even she was confused, She's like, oh this Yeah, that
scene of their meeting was very like oh, I feel
like if you didn't know anything about the show or
the trailer or anything and you're just watching it, yeah,
you'd be like, oh, this is a nothing moment. Like absolutely,
like they see each other, they like kind of had
this awkward moment of like passing toilet paper to each other.

(30:16):
She tries to get to know him more and he's
just kind of like bye, see ya, Yanks, and then
he leaves and goes back on stage.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Even before she goes in and she's trying to be
offend people in the bar. I think is also like
a really nice aversion because I think as much as
rom coms lie to us about love, they also lie
to us about friendship. And they lie to us about
the fact that you can move to a new city
and that you'll just go out and it'll be magical
and you'll make all these new friends and you'll fall
in love straight away.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Because can I tell you as.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Someone who has moved, I've moved to so many new
cities completely by myself, and I have done that where
you just go out and you try and meet people
because you have to, and no one wants to talk
to you because people have their own lives and friends
going on.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
That is so true.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's just I mean, meaning the boy is also a
bit rom com. But I understand that we had to
get that in there. Yeah, So we had the scence
them walking home, which is the moment from Lena and
Louis's real relationship walking through the streets. He gives her
the jacket they talk for ag is a recreation of
their real first date.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
Oh okay, because that scene was like felt like something
should happen more. But even in that scene, like they
get home and then he kind of like just like
drops her home and then he's like out of there.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, but he comes back. He comes when she's burnt
herself with a candle.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Yes, So we find out that Jess has like this
coping mechanism. Yeah, this coping mechanism is to make She
has a private Instagram account, and what she does is
she posts video selfie videos of herself talking to her
ex boyfriend's Zev's new girlfriend, em Rata.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yes, called Wendy. And it must be said that not only.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Is she high Wendy. Yeah, that's literally exactly, and it's
like a dear diary, but it's a high Wendy, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
High Wendy's how she starts everything. And it should be
said that not only is Wendy a very well known influencer.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
She's a knitting she's a knitting influencer.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
So important, that detail so important.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
And because it's em Rata, it's so believe maivable, like, yes,
of course she's a knitting influencer. And of course now
I'm gonna buy my own nitwear.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
And it's any influencer who works on that space is like,
no one wants the ugly knitted hats Wendy slash camrat,
No one wants the ugly like you're it even, like
Jess points out as she's watching her videos, like it's
just because she's a hot woman and she can go
into her closet and like knit herself a little scarf
whire it is a boob choobe. It's like the scarf
is ugly, You're just a hot woman when everyone's gonna

(32:36):
buy the scarf now.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
So she's doing a high Wendy situation and because she's
a big love a girl of prime and prejudice, she
kind of looks like the pride of She's wearing this
long white kind of nighty yeah down. She's also holding
a cat.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
It's giving Scrooge, Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Giving the backing gale. She's like holding a candle and
while she's filming, the candle kind of like leans into
her and she sets her chest of fire flu.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
On fire, and she has that moment where she's like
what do I do? Stopped up and roll and then
she kind of can't get down, which is again so
relatable because stop dropping roll sounds easy. I feel hard
in the moment.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
No, yeah, because everyone can stop.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
It's the drug, it's the role would stop me. I
would just go face first.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
The fire of my passion cannot be extinguished.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
Oh my god, job driven roll stop, Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
And then she can't remember the like number nine.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
But also that's what is the emergency number in the UK.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
It doesn't matter because whichever one you call, it automatically
transfer it. So even if she called nine one one,
it will go to the UK police.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Oh guys, that is the most important thing.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
We're in the UK, and all we remember zero zero zero,
it will still go to the police.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
And I feel like we're still Americanized, we'd all done. Okay.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
That was such a good fact, Thank you, Emily.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
And then the last scene of the very first episode,
you see her in the bartup two really confused paramedics
once just grosing her down with the nineties, I know.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
And he looks so terrified, and you just like this
and this bit. There's so many I mean, the thing
is the dialogue in this show. I know there's some
haters out there and people like it's on this mat.
The dialogue in the show is so funny and so
much of the I think the actual best dialogue comes
between the character of Jessica and her weird like landlord,
the guy who's like looking off the apartment when she

(34:35):
first arrives. He's like, that's a nice picture of you.
She's like, that's the lady from Murder she wrote the
actual lands Burke in then Bart when she's like, she's
not really drunk, but I guess she's just in stress.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
She where's my dog? If it was my dog?

Speaker 2 (34:55):
If where is he? She's like, it was a child?

Speaker 1 (34:56):
You care You only care about children, not dogs.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
And then then he's fully thinking it was like suicide.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
And he's like, you're want to make some medical decisions,
I'll do that and she's like, I don't even know you.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
And then Felix comes around the corner holding my favorite
character from.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
The show, the ugly little dog Astrid.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yes, and oh my god. Also, this is really cute.
Is that you know how that night like Felix and
Jessica have just met, Yes, and he goes to the
hospital to see her. That is something that Louis did
for Lena in real life. So Lena's had a lot
of different health problems. Sometimes she's had to go into
the emergency room.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
She was an extreme amount of pain. She didn't know
Louis that well.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
He found out that she was there, and he went
to the hospital, and later on he said, like, that
was one of the moments I knew I wanted to
be with you because I the thought of you being
in hospital alone was too much and I never wanted
you to be in that situation again where I wasn't
there for you. So him going to check on her
in hospital is also directly pulled from Louis and Lena's
love story.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
I did not expect Felix to visit her in hospital,
not even visit her, but like bring her dog and
then break her out, yeah, exactly, and drive her home.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
It's also like it's just a small moment, but she's
clearly like she's got a burn, but she's clearly fine.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
She's clearly but she's in a unit with like thaorn
Burns Victor.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah. And also up until then, he was like in
a relationship.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, and still was he still kind of is. There's
a lot of there's a lot of.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
A lot of crossover there, and as we see them
getting into like their dating, their courtship, if you will,
that's when we get like we obviously have we have
their first sex scene, and then we just see that
we see that moment that happens when you first meet
someone you like, where you you're so being so intimate
because you're obviously having a lot of sex, but you're
also with each other twenty four or seven.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, see, these are the scenes that kind of annoyed
me because and I think this is where you see
the cleverness behind Lena's writing on like exactly what what
she wanted people to feel when they watched the show.
Is that in my head because of every other type
of media we consumed, It's like, girl goes through breakup,

(37:01):
she moves overseas. This is a time where she has
her big single girl era moment, wanting to succeed in
her career, wanting to like make all these friends and
be like the main character of her life. But she
moves overseas and immediately gets into a relationship. Yeah, and
it was very like so against what we've learned and
so against of what we're meant to do.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, I know, it didn't It felt like if maybe
Felena was writing something that was maybe a bit more
girls adjacent she would have written that type of story.
But I think this is so much. She's talked about
the fact that, even though she knows that some of
her work doesn't present that way, that she was really
raised on rom coms. Again, she know the same age,
So we were really raised on like notting Hill Love.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Actually You've Got.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Mail as kind of like the catalyst for like what
a real film is. And as much as she's kind
of she grew up in a house where her parents
were really against that type of media, she loves rom
coms and so she still leans into rom com tropes
more than anything else, like by her own design.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
The thing is, it's like, this isn't a rom com,
which is why I got confused because if I felt
the rom com element earlier on the scenes of them
getting together and then also seeing that he's not really
sure about her, but her being fully in didn't really
sit like because a rom com for me, when I
see it, I feel immediately safe. Yeah, And with this courtship,

(38:21):
I did not feel safe at any point.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Which is so interesting because lean like I don't personally
call too much a rom com, And I wrote in
my review the top of my review is like just awarding.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
This isn't a wrong com because for me, it doesn't
have that fluffiness and that safety.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
So what I loved about those earlier scenes is that
they come back from the burns unit and they have sex,
and it's very not like rom com sex because rom
com sex is a very specific thing, and I was
watching these movies if I even really knew what sex was.
So this is what I thought sex was for a
really long time. Is that it's two people kissing and
then you lie back on the bed and then the
camera pans down to like your hands clasped, and.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Then the camera comes back.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Later when everyone's like clothes but backed under the covers. Yeah,
and you kind of see that moment, like the camera
never cuts away. And also they're like talking and laughing
through it. It's a little bit awkward. He's worried about
her burn scar. She's like making jokes with him. They
don't have this huge, big where they all got them
together at the same moment.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
It's not really that. It's much more real estic.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, it's a very real like reflects reality and those
like initial relationships and exactly what you're saying, like spending
so much time together, like she has a full time
job that she's not really good at because she's spending
like from eight pm to like five am awake with
him and like watching movies and having sex like in
between and not sleeping. And what's true to reality is

(39:40):
that when you're in like those fresh relationships where you're
just all in, one person compromises on everything and the
other person just gets what they want. Yeah, and he
initially just gets everything he wants right, Like he can
afford to stay up so late because he only works
during the evening, so he sleeps throughout the day, whereas
like she goes into work like red Eye, like like

(40:01):
can't comprehend anything's so so bad at her job, gets
pulled up for it, and still keeps doing it.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, it's very much watching just kind of muck up
up her own new life for this guy, which again
very relatable. But what I loved about those scenes is
that it was a way to show true intimacy in
a way that I felt was very relatable because as
you know, like you can be having sex with someone
and it can be not be intimate. You could be
watching a sex scene on TV. It could be very graphic, Yeah,

(40:27):
and it could not feel intimate, it could still feel
very Hollywood. Whereas I thought, like the different sex scenes,
paired with those moments of them just lying on the
bed talking, or like lying over each other, or like
massaging each other and like laughing, like in a really
silly way, brushing their teeth together, all of those things.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Was just like a very a level of true.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Intimacy and realism and like a non glossy way to
show how quickly they were falling in love with each other.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're exactly right. And I think
it's because you were seeing like no breaks, like you
were seeing like the full nightpan out with the timecodes
on the clock and stuff, that you quickly realized how
serious there they were becoming together. And then you got
the Paddington scene.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Oh my god, Okay, the Paddington scene.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Look, we need to do a disclaimer here because we've
been robbed.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yes, Lena Dunno is likeness.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
She's a big fan of the spill, clearly because she
witnessed an episode of US, which if you're a long
time listener, you also would have witnessed that. We have
a bit of a dynamic when it comes to talking
about Paddington to the point where what we said about
Paddington with the exact lines that were said, and too
much about Paddington exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
And look, Lena and Louis want to say they wrote
this show years ago and they filmed it over a
year ago. Lies because recent conversations from the Spill, which
before this show had been made available so we hadn't
seen it, have been lifted and put on this Netflix
TV show by Lena Dunnan. Because you freaking love the
Paddington movies. Yes, if anyone hasn't watched them, which I haven't,

(42:00):
it's that movie with that creepy little bear that gets
It's not creepy.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
He's just trying to find his home and nothing creepy.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
But do I get again? So in the scene there,
there is a scene where they're watching Paddington and the
Felix character is having a very very emotional response to it,
and he is so even though he's he's seen the
movie a thousand times, which Emily also has. He's stressed
every single time about what's gonna happen to the bear.
And then the Jessica character, which is me in this way,

(42:29):
it's been based off me cannot understand how Like she's like, oh,
it's a cute movie, like she she says that, which
I've also said too, but cannot understand how grow an
adult is so caught up in the Paddington movies and
also so terrified of the outcome when they've watched the
movie already.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
It's just so stressful. I'm so sad, and he just
wants to find his family. He's just wants worry.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
We're not getting into this again, but just this is
just a place anyway. I loved us having a cameo
in this show.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
I was a cameo. But besides the copyright element of
us in that scene, what I found really interesting in
that scene is that you're constantly reminded of like the
pool that she has to her ex partner Zave and
his relationship with Wendy, because she's not only is she
constantly talking to Wendy into her phone as like a
coping mechanism, but she has like visions of Zave like

(43:20):
with her, like she sees him when she's out, and
she also sees him when things are really good for her,
Like she's got like her dream man lying on her lap,
crying over Paddington May and all she's doing is just
checking Wendy's and Zave socials to see what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
And that's such a big thing as we see their relationship,
as we see them move out of the honeymoon period
and we see them move into being in a full
blown relationship, which a lot of happens because he has
to move in with her. And that's the thing, like
she's stalling in her career because she's self sabotaging, but
he's stalling in his career because he's in his mid
thirties in his music career has ever really taken off,
and his sobriety has become his focus. And as we

(43:56):
see more of Felix's backstory like that, that was to
me the serious elements of the show where we see
the codependency he's had on previous partners, but most of
it comes from the fact where we meet his family.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Yeah, that scene was so weird, like lip that and
I think it like took up majority of the episode
was him going back to see his family. So he's
two parents and his sister who's in her forties, all
lived together. They lived in this big mansion and then
you find out that his dad isn't the best with
money and I think has a bit of a gambling
They were alluding to a bit of a gambling problem

(44:29):
and had like bad investment strategy, so they had to
move to a smaller house. But his mom and this
is one of the scenes where I was like, oh, Lena,
where she made the mom a bad driver, the Asian
mom a bad driver. I was, we didn't really need it.
But you see FELIXX go into his old house because
it's vacant, it's completely empty, and it's like this massive mansion.

(44:51):
So you can have a feeling of how he's been
brought up, like as a private schoolboy and like everything
he got. And then you like see him having these
flashbacks of interactions with his parents, how his dad was
very stern with him about school and grades, and how
his mom was like this creative like person who loved
him but also wanted to make sure that she was
on her own like individual part. Yeah, and then like

(45:13):
his sister really loved him and wanted to like hang
out with him. And then he had a very serious
situation with a really awful person who was then nanny.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, and then Nanny's sexually abusing him as a child,
which is a horrific storyline, and I think when you
realize what's happening, the enormity of that hits you in
such a huge way. And it kind of goes on
to show how it's really shaped Felix's character in terms
of like the trauma, the unresolved trauma he still has
from going through that situation. And again that's a scene

(45:45):
of true intimacy when he tells Jessica that, because you
do get the vibe that he just hasn't really said
that to anyone, Like she's really the first person that
he's shared this awful thing with.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
When she was like, I think I've also been molested.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Oh no, I like not now, not now.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
But that beautiful scene where he was like trying to
explain like his emotions around what happened to him, and
he was like, well, my parents never tucked me in
when I was a kid, and she was like, you've
never been tucked in, And then she tucks him in
and he tells her I love you for the first time.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
That was really beautiful. And then I know you cried
because you sent me a photo of yourself crying.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
I did send a photo myself crying. Oh my god,
Like that scene just absolutely destroyed me. Yeah, and that
was a scene where I was like, Okay, I feel
safe in this relationship.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Now, oh she didn't have that goes to hell quickly.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
One of the most iconic episodes was where Jess gets
invited to her boss's dinner party and like all her
coworkers are there, she brings Felix as a date, even
though they haven't really like cemented what exactly they are
to each other, like they haven't called each other boy.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, and her coworkers are very quick to point that out,
being like how long you know this diet? A couple
of days?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
And it's so important that it takes place in notting Hill. Well,
first of all, the romanticization of notting Hill and the
doors and everything is something that.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Was really born.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, it's something I feel like a lot of American
and Australian girls have of like really romanticizing that neighborhood,
especially after the movie notting Hill came out to the
point where residents of notting Hill now will like get
these tourists away from our front doors. And so I
think that's very kind of very wrong com girl coded
of her to go and pose in front of the
doors and be really swept up in that rom com

(47:33):
life and for him to be really like thinking it's
ridiculous as someone who's like been raised in London.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Yeah, and you find out, we find out why Felix
hates it because he's had a lot of history with
especially the family that they're going to see. So we
get there, Naomi Watts opens the door.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, She's like, come on in, so important, She's.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
So important, And it is the best type of party.
I feel like this is the type of party that
I only ever want to have. It is crazy. It's
full of people that I absolutely hate. It's full of
people who are so up themselves, who are so like
specific in their personalities. The costumes are insane. They do
a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol, and we

(48:14):
find out that like this is one of the big
reasons where Felix struggles in being sober, because like, you
have to be sober with all these people who are
in your face doing like racks of cocaine like in
front of you, and everyone's dancing crazy and getting very
intimate with each other, and you're just kind of standing
there as the only sober one in the corner.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Kind of watching all that unfold. And I also think
it's so telling because we know Lena Dunham wrote all
these characters with specific actors in mind. So when she
wrote that part for Nami, what's the character starts talking about?
Like menopause and no one talks about and all these
sorts of things along with all her crazy rich lady stuff.
And I think that's such an interesting line to nameI
what's his real life? Because she went through menopause very

(48:55):
early in her life, and she's been very outspoken about it,
to the fact that she's released a whole book about it,
she's done so many interviews about it. So that thing
of like peppering a few of their real life details
through the show.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
You see Jessica and Anne, who's played by Nami Watts,
like strike this friendship, which is so specific to every
woman in their twenties who meets an older woman that
she becomes obsessed with it. Yeah, Like, there are women
in my life who are like now probably like we
laugh about it now, but when they first came into
my life and they weren't related to me, they're just

(49:27):
I just met them out at work or in the
open who are like older and by older I mean
like in their like mid forties to early fifteen. Yeah,
I was like you who I just latched on, and
I'm like, you are the most ethereal being.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
There's so many catalysts.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Then in the Felix and Jessica relationship of like them
living together, the dinner party, when they go to the
wedding together.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
At the breakup and she like falls off the balcony it's.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
So good, so good, goes back and like nothing happened
that leads to this breakup.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Also Felix looking up with an older woman, and the
most important moment of.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
The show the death of Astrod where she arap I
was really Astrad moment of silence, and all of this
culminates in building up to the finale. And this is
what's really interesting is that this is where Lena Dunham
has always said that she really wanted to follow the
blueprint of a traditional rom com. So she wanted the
catalyst for the female character to change her life and

(50:24):
have an adventure. She wanted the meet cute, she wanted,
then the intimate relationship, and then something that brings the
characters apart, and then the biggest moment in a rom
com is always when the characters decide no, we are
going to be together. Even then they resolve any of
their issues, which.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Leads us to the protest moment.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Okay, so you see the scene and you see Felix's parents,
and you see Jess's mum and a sister, and you
see like her co workers, and you're like, oh, are
they hosting like a dinner party? Like are they like
having the friends together? They're all friends and they're like
meeting each other's families. No, you find out it's their
wedding exactly.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
So they have the protest scene, and again this is
what Lena Dunham has said, this was her classic like
run through the airport, or like Matthew McConaughey on the
motorbike seeing Kate Hudson through the streets of New York
and How to Lose a Guy in ten Days or
any of those moments. All rom comms have that moment
where someone or like Hugh Grant going to the press
conference and standing up and like, you know, telling Julia

(51:22):
Robertson this way that he loves her. Like it's so
Tom Hanks and me and Ryan meeting in the park.
In You've Got Mail, like, there's this moment where one
character makes a big gesture and they just put aside
all their differences because they're in love. So we had
that the protest.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
Yeah, well she's the only one getting arrested.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Now.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
What did you think of the wedding scene when you
saw it?

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Okay, Initially I was like, what the damn hell?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Why would they do this?

Speaker 3 (51:48):
They just ruined this whole show. Everything is done. I
never want to talk about it, No one to talk
about the show.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
It is such angry. I didn't know you were that anger.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
I was so angry because it was so sudden, and
up until that point, even after the protest and the
big moment, it felt like these characters should definitely not
be together, yeah, or even if they are together, like
very rocky, and like things are still going wrong and
he's still scared to hold her hand in public and
say I love you yeah, and like call her girlfriend,

(52:18):
And it just seemed like there's just so much things
I were left unseaid, and yet they still got married.
And there was like the specific scene where she was
like you're not gonna leave, right, or something like that,
and he was just like maybe and like taking a joke,
but like you're like.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Is it a joke?

Speaker 1 (52:32):
That is the point.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
I had the same thought when I was watching Well,
first of all, I thought I'd missed it episode. I
was like, wait, I know we just had like a
rogue proposal, but are we seriously jumping from the rogue
proposal in the middle of the road for two people
who clearly are not in a good spot together? Are
we jumping from that tall wedding? And there's two reasons
that that happened. One is that again, Lena Dunaman loves
a rom com and she knows that a rom com
ends in a wedding, no matter how many problems the

(52:54):
characters are having. So Lena Dunham wanted that moment where
she wanted the audience to see that was a finality
to what they were doing, that we're going to be together.
But also, and this is Lena Dunham's like secret shame,
is that she always wanted to be a bride and
she always wanted the be wedding, and that again shouldn't
be shameful, but she sort of has acknowledged that she

(53:15):
is seen as this kind of like a woman who
champions like, you know, friendship above romance, independence, all these things.
And also she said she was raised in her house
where her mother, even though her mother was married with kids,
was also like, it's not the most important thing, Like
we don't aspire to be brides. We aspire to create art.
We aspire to be business women, like that's what we do.
And Lena was like, outwardly, yeah, okay, but inside she

(53:38):
wanted to wear the white dress and she wanted the
big party.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
She did do that exactly.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
I can just do that. No, that's why when Lena
got married to Louis. That's why they had the big
wedding that was in vogue, with Taylor Switch as the
bridesmaid and her wearing like the frothy dresses. It's like
she wanted to lean into this theme though she knew
she shouldn't, and so she wanted to give Jess that.
But this is the weird thing. It's like she wanted
to give Jess that. But then she says, I also
wanted the audience to feel uneasy when the show finished.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Which which we did.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Just Telena Dunnam.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
The whole point of her rom com is that the
audience feels happy and safe at the end, but she
wanted to give us that safety these her own words,
she wanted to give us the safety and then take
it away. And that is why in that moment, he
says to her, you didn't We'll say together, Phillix suggests,
and they kind of laugh and look worried, and their
family looks worried. And it's because Lena Dunham wanted us
to end this show feeling unsettled and feeling worried about

(54:30):
their futures and feeling like there's a huge possibility that
they broke up a month later.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Well, mission accomplished, Yeah, exactly, because I did leave feeling unsettled. Yeah,
but I have like gone back because I was like, oh,
this is really smart storytelling on her behalf, because that
is the last scene that she ended it on, is
the scene that will like young women in schools are
going to be writing essays on, like everyone's going to
be talking about It's going to be in our cultural
like zygeist for like the next year at least.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah. Absolutely, So, I guess I felt a bit better
when I had Lina's reasoning, which is why I wanted
to share that with the spill listeners because I finished
and the screen went to black, and Netflix is like,
do you want to watch this next? I was like,
hang on a second, flex Netflix, I'm still dealing with this.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
I'm all ready for Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yeah, I just watch Gilmore Girls again. I will in
a minute.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
They just give me a second, because I just devoted
ten hours of my life to this show and it
has and I thought I was eating I actually thought
that they were going to decide not to be together,
but that was going to just be some beautiful thing
that happened to her in London, and it was going
to be this like bittersweet moment.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
That's what I thought was gonna It would.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Have been like a ten years later or even they
just kissed at.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
The end, and then it's not the promise of a wedding.
It's just like, oh they kissed.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
You're like, and they've just been back in with each other.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
I mean, something happened.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
The wedding was so final and also so daunting because
you just knew as a viewer it was going to
end really badly. And so I just want everyone who
finished this show thinking, I feel oddly upset. Yeah, you
were meant to that's that overall, though too.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Much on Netflix by Lena Dunham. An incredible show.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Great show, such good storytelling. Definitely one to make sure
all your friends watch because you want to just dissect
this with everyone in your life.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah, exactly, And I hope it comes back from a
season two, which that's still up in the air.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
I mean, I would love to see this out.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
I actually just want a Wendy spinoff because that scene
between Wendy and Jessica was so incredible where you find
out that behind it all, at the end of the day,
Wendy is just a girl's girl and they both suffered
from this man and they find common ground. Just outstanding television,
and I just I want to come back for a
season two.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yes, we're putting it out there. I mean you you're
already stolen from us, dun so you may as well
do this.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah, write us more directly into.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
The show, give you some more content for you to
Thank you so much for listening to The Spill today.
Make sure you follow us on TikTok and Instagram at
The Spill podcast. The Spill is produced by Manitias Warren,
Resound production by Scott's Trunnik and we'll be back here
on your podcast feed at three pm on Monday.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Bye bye, plan It