October 7, 2025 • 45 mins
Taylor Swift’s new album The Life of a Showgirl has been released into the world, shattering records across the globe.
So now, with the help of two Swift insiders and experts, we’re here to unpack the hidden details buried within the lyrics that even the most die-hard TS fans definitely missed.
From all the celebrity names that were secretly name-checked on the album, to the inspiration beyond the songs, the moments that made us swoon and a few extreme fan emotions thrown in, this is the ultimate behind-the-scenes guide to The Life of a Showgirl.
CAN'T GET ENOUGH TAY TAY? LISTEN HERE:
MORNING TEA: Taylor's Showgirl Era Takes Over
Nina Dobrev & Zac Efron’s Revenge Hook-Up and We Have Notes On Taylor Swift’s New Movie
Read Bree Player's review of The Life Of A Showgirl here.
The Spill's new podcast Watch Party is out now, listen on Apple or Spotify.
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CREDITS
Hosts: Laura Brodnik, Tina Burke & Bree Player
Executive Producer: Monisha Iswaran
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that
this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome to
the Spill your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura Brodnick,
and today we're here for a very special episode because
(00:32):
we're going to be decoding and disgusting and maybe fighting
about Taylor Swift's new album, The Life of the Show Girl.
And because this is such a special event, I've had
to bring in two experts, so we have Tina Burke,
would like to share your Taylor Swift credentials and I'll
decide if you're allowed to stay at the table.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, I am Mamma MIA's pop culture and social editor,
so for work, I'm very online. I've been a Swiftie
since the Fearless era, and I met her in the
Fearless era because I won tickets through the radio.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So it's very credentials, very deep in Taylor Swifts. I've
touched her hand, we've had a moment. It's been fun,
huge news. A few light restraints out there.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Zero point zero five percent of fans on Spotify wrapped
every year like listen to her more than some people
listen to music in total.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So I guess there's that. You know, I am a
swifty of source. Okay, you can stay. Thanks, And on
my other side, if you're watching this on YouTube, we
have preplayer and can you explain your credentials? We might leave.
We might leave a good ten minutes of the pod
for this because you are our secret swifty insider for
this episode. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So, I've been a fan of Taylor since debut Era.
When I have to give my sister a shout out,
she said, You've got to listen to this new singer
I found. We went and saw her in Melbourne at Billboard.
The venue I don't even think it exists anymore, but
venue capacity of about three hundred people. I have since
seen her I think seventeen times. Wow, seven of which
(01:56):
was on the eras you.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Were like jetting across the world.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah. So I did LA, I did for Sydney, I
did Miami, and I did New Orleans. I have wrapped
up just as many hours, if not more, then then.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Tina has lost.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I did calculate over the weekend how many minutes I
spent listening to the torture parts department. It was over
seventy thousand. Wow, it's been a year, guys.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, so you left this year alone, not even the
album releases. Yeah, exactly. You're a big sifety. You're also
the executive producer of Mumba's podcast No Filter. We've roped
you in for this, Yes, you wrote me in for
this today are a Tails insider. You actually received this
new album quite early? Is that you can tell us through.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
That I did?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So the last couple of albums I have been sent
in advance to review, which I feel like is the
whole reason why I do my job. And actually I
got sent it a little bit earlier than I expected.
I was actually out at dinner on Wednesday and it
landed with me, and then I had to go and
sit through an entire opening night of Rent with it
(03:03):
burning a.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Hole in my pocket.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I cove run out of the run home, but I
did as soon as I got home put it on.
So I had a listen that night a couple of
times through before I went to bed.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, and you wrote a review for mom and me
that we shared on the side, And so it's on
the weekend and everyone was sharing it across to you know,
have their big feelings.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, which we have so many feelings. So now we've
established both your credentials and just a fanchise. Just I
like her a lot, but I will say many hours
of my life spent on the family computer back in
high school looking up every debut performance she'd ever done
being on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Does anyone remember when she performed with def Leopard? If
you do, not, go watch it right now. She's like
a teenager performing with like a sixty year old rock band.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It's so good. But we've we've dedicated our lives to
loving her. So here we are today. Yeah, now that
I've got my two experts absolutely, which I must say,
you've both decorated, or you've decorated if you're watching this
on a YouTube channel Swifty than Yeah, we've got the
new record here the life of a showgir, which are
going to chat about. There are friendship bracelets draped across
(04:08):
the table. There's Taylor Swift memorabilia behind me. Yeah, it's
a real Why didn't even say that one before nineteen
eighty nine? Right behind me Taylor's verse? Do you want
to tell the spillers? What's on your wrist? Laura? Oh?
I have three friendship bracelets that were gifted to me
by Tina Burke when she heard that. I went to
the RAS tour, which is the first time teen Taylor Swiftly,
and I really did like Sweller Alert. I thought it
was a good show. Whatever said that, this is a
(04:32):
great show, this kid's great and no one gave me
a friendship bracelet. I don't know if I have an
off putting aura or yeah, I think I do. People
always say this.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Maybe people could smell it was your first show.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, they were like, no, I'm a real fan. So
Tina gave me these and I'm so excited to wear
them and maybe I'll pill for some off the table.
So we are talking about the Life of a show Girl,
which came out on Friday. It broke streaming records across Spotify,
Apple Music, and Amazon Music. It also sold I think
a two point seven million copies in a single day,
(05:04):
which is the single highest ever behind Adele. But then
it also went on to break all the vinyl records,
which I think is where the truth fans like yourselves
were buying, with one point two millions sold in the
first twenty four hours, which topped the Tortured Poets Department,
So Taylor sieved beating herself and she's gone on to
break many a record since then. So we're going to
(05:24):
do first impressions free first impressions of the album.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, my first impression, obviously I listened after three hours
of Rent late at night, but my first impression was
that it wasn't what well, actually, I didn't have any expectations.
It wasn't what anyone was expecting, and that was the
first thing that hit me. We know that she's returned
to having Max Martin and Shellback producing this album after
many years of Jack Antonov and Aaron Dezna, so everyone
(05:51):
was expecting really poppy vibes, which we got on nineteen
eighty nine with Max and Shellback producing and most of
REP as well. It's not like either of those And
for the people that were expecting it, I think there's
been some comments that people aren't that wrapped in it,
that we're hoping for a nineteen eighty nine part two.
I wasn't hoping for nineteen eighty nine part two. I'm
(06:13):
really enjoying it. I love this album. It's not my
favorite album, but it will get a lot of rotations.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
For me, what's your favorite album? Just so I know
what we're kind of measuring again.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I would say Poets, so interesting, yeah, I would say Poets.
And this is the opposite end of the spectrum. You've
got like devastated Taylor versus happy Taylor. Yeah, or like
a statically confident happy Taylor. So it's, you know, total
opposite sides of the spectrum.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
I love a sad song.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, yeah, that's so true. And Tina, what were your
first impressions because you were sitting alone at home on Friday,
his workdays, and you were like, I could feel the
tension across our like text message and stuff on the
day of the build up, so you were quite you're
quite nervous. I was nervous.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And then like, you know, two PM hits in every
group chat I've ever been a part of. Everyone's texting
me to tell me they've started, and like they're like
live texting their reactions. But I'm working and setting liveze
amazing review of putting it across our social channels and
doing work. All of this Showgirl reaction.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I think your boss would have mind if you listened
to that people, you're my boss.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
If you would have mind if you listened to it
and like, I was getting up social post because Taylor
Post is some picks. So it was maybe like fifteen
twenty minutes after it had come out. I started listening
to it and like, I feel like I'm getting bombarded
with messages. Well it's happening, So it's a bit strange.
But my reaction to the first four tracks was this
was nothing like I expected. I think the same. I
didn't know what sound to expect from her. I think
this is a different sound than what she has done before.
(07:39):
The theming was very different. I was really enjoying it.
I thought she sounded just like super Ethereal. Even though
it was poppy. I was loving it. Didn't love track five.
We can talk about that in depth later, but I
think my overall reaction to the album is I really
love some of these songs.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
They are songs I want to dance to. They are
songs I want to like Blast in the Car. It's
not my.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Favorite album, and I also I'm okay with that, Like
the girl has given us her entire life and all
of her music and all of her albums, and everything
doesn't have to be for me all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I don't really sure.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I think if you see the way some people have
reacted online, way to god, Taylor murdered them like it's fine,
she can release a pop album and you don't have
to like it.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
But I actually do.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I really like some of the songs. I think they're
really fun and I had a good time. I'll definitely
be playing this one and repeat. But no, it's not
my top of the top nana.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Okay. So with that in mind, now we know we're
all our players, Stan, I think it feels like a
good time to get into some of the reactions and
some of the criticism and praise before we start deep
diving into some songs from the album. So when it
came out, there were some very very positive, glowing reviews.
Yours was very positively Rolling Stone, quite a few others.
There were quite a few negative ones. The New York
(08:43):
mag went to town saying that she's lost her sound.
It was an imaginative and inventive and a lot of
other very intense things. I think the standout critique for
me came from The Guardian, who said dull razzle, dazzle
from a musician who seems frazzled. So very kind of
across the board, and I wanted to get your thoughts
on some of the biggest I guess some of the
(09:04):
biggest critiques of it, since you guys are in the
weeds of it. And one of the biggest critiques that
came strow off the back is that people felt miss
led by the Showgirl messaging and felt like she had
done a huge marketing push with the Showgirl asthetic basically
because she thought that would be very good visually, but
it didn't tie into the album. Yeah, I mean it.
I'm just saying this is this is one of the
(09:25):
big critique I think you What I will say is
that I relate to that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I think she made it super clear that this was
the life behind the scenes of a showgirl. But obviously
the aesthetic itself is showgirl because she's in all the outfits.
She looks incredible, and maybe she just wanted to look
really cute and as Sparkley song and I think that's okay,
but she looks amazing, she's in all this showgirl stuff.
I think some people were a little bit disappointed that
there weren't more songs that were like the really intense
and an intense version of I Can Do It with
(09:50):
a Broken Heart from Tortured Poets. I think some people
thought that would be the whole vibe of the album,
but she made it pretty clear that this was her
life behind the scenes. It's just that maybe it is
a bit more focused on her like actual life and
the things that were happening to her personally, rather than
here's what it's like to deal with all this pressure
and all this fame. There's still songs that address it,
there's still things that do but I understand a little
bit of the disappointment maybe.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
But I got over that very quickly. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I think that like the artwork that we've seen with
the big zig field folly plumes and razzle dazz on,
all that sparkle and everything, there are people that have
been misled thinking that they're going to get Broadway.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
The Greater Showman, right.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
But this is the album cover, like we have seen
lots of other artwork. But she looks like a pop
star here. She looks like what she is, you know.
And she talked about in the making of the Ophelia
of Music video that she wants to focus on the
showgirl through the different eras to what she is today,
and we did just see her stage the biggest show
(10:48):
in the world. So her behind the scenes of being
a showgirl in the twenty twenties is.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
This, and there are songs that address it, and we're
gonna die into them. But in terms of yeah, the criticism, like,
as much as I think they're valid things to critique,
I think everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Some of
the criticism I've learned to just brush off a little
bit with Taylor because she.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Don't mean to shake it off.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Oh look at you a secretly the biggest check your credit,
But yeah, I do. I learned to shake it off
because people react to the same way every time. There
has not been a Taylor album in my lifetime that
people haven't reacted to by going, she sucks, she fell off.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
This is the worst thing she's ever done except folklore.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Except Folklore, which then I think there were people that
said it in quite a condescend exactly. It was like,
how did you do this? You know, you managed to
put out this album.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
That's actually good, And she said all in the lead
up to this, right, this was supposed to be twelve
type tracks, sonically themed like really high production, really hyper pop,
because the complaints about Tortured Poets Department was that too
many songs, not edited enough, too wordy, to whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And then you know, for Midnights.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
There were complaints as well that like the pop sound
they didn't like because it wasn't the same as folklore
and evermore. And then there were complaints about Rep and
Lover because those had too many cringe lyrics, those had
too many bops. So while I appreciate everyone's ability to
complain and have the critiques that they want to have,
I'm also like, it's just the way it is now.
She's reached a height where people get mad, and I think, okay,
we're so used to it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Anyway, it's the same cycle every time. There'll be the
glowing reviews that generally come from places that matter, you know,
Rolling Stone, Billboard, the places she cares about and cares
about what they have to say, The New York Times
as well. Then there's always the negative ones because they
get good engagement and all of that kind of thing.
But also, we don't need everyone.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
To love it in order to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I actually love if they didn't, because getting tickets was
really hard. Yeah, you would love the fandom to just have.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I got floor seats so close to the stage and reputation,
and then I couldn't even buy tickets to the errors
to her, I don't actually mind if she falls off
a little bit. I'm not worried about that, and I
don't think Taylor is.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Also, you know, as you pointed out already for people
saying they don't like it or getting bad reviews or whatever.
It's on track to potentially eclipse Adele's first week sales
and is projected to hit three point five to four million.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And I guess for me, the one thing from the
critiques that I'm seeing from a lot of major swifties
and from maybe some of these reviews that I thought,
you know, what I do agree with that is that
there wasn't that one standout song for me that normally
like punches me in the gut. And it doesn't necessarily
have to be about heartbreak or sadness. It doesn't matter
what it is, but there is always like something on
there that pulls out and you really relate to, no
(13:32):
matter who you are. And I am seeing people say
that there's not necessarily a relatability in this album, and
not because she's in love because she's written about being
in love before, but that maybe and again, well, this
is the life of a show goal. It's not really relatable,
and I don't think it was ever meant to be.
But I do agree with the Swifties who were like, oh,
I feel like they can't put their finger on what
it is. Yeah, they like something's missing for them, and
I do understand that because I love a lot of
(13:53):
songs and I'm loving this album, but I get it
there's something that isn't there for me.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And that's the other sort of criticism. I wanted to
get you both your thoughts song, because one is that
she's become overly unrelatable. There's too many mentions to wealth
and her star status. And the other one is that
the lyricism a lot of critics are saying has fallen
off and there's some very unfair ties to Joe Owen,
her former partner of many years, people saying that he
needs written the song. And do you know what your
(14:19):
thoughts are on that? What do you think on that
idea that people think both her lyricism and her relatability
have fallen off too much in this album? Well, I
mean I saw a tweet that said that, you know,
she'd sacrificed bops for lyrics on Poets, and then lyrics
for bops on this.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I mean it goes back to the thing that people
want what they don't have on each album and compare
it to the previous one and the one before that.
But everyone complained about Poets.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I was definding good album with my life. By the way, we.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
All know Joe's penn did not touch that album lyrically stunning.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yes, yes, okay, So getting into some of the songs,
We're going to start with some of the happier bops
at the top that very much I guess chronicle her
love story with Travis Kelce, which is opolite would of course,
and I guess also the Fate.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Of absolutely pulls her out of that like mad Hey darkness,
like she very much is comparing herself obviously to that
character of Ophelia, and of all people, Hamlet to Maddie Healley,
and who doesn't love that comparison. I'm sure he's having
a great time today, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Okay, So yeah, the album opens with the Fate of Ophelia,
which I read in my review, and I picks up
the thread from where Pollet's left off. She was drowning
in a sea of her own tears and her own
misery that was put there by a man who promised
to love her. Obviously it didn't work out, and then
Travis came along and rescued her from that fate of Ophelia.
(15:44):
Then what follows are several tracks that speak to her
really confident happiness. And I think we've had her talk
about being really happy and in love before, but there
was always some sort of reservation there. And I think
that's why this for a lot of Swifties has had
that inability to relate to Yeah, And I know where
(16:06):
they feel that they don't feel that confident in their love.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And like for me, these are like put them on,
dance around while you're cleaning the house, go out with
the girls, have a drink, have a dance like. They're
very fun pop songs. Now I don't relate to it.
I'm not happy and in love, but I'm still.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Having a good time exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think what's missing, like you said, is like I
compare this album a lot to Lover, and that's because
Lover was similarly quite a happy love album.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
There were a lot of songs on there.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That if they were released on Friday with this album
would also have been called like bad the way that
people are like this album sucks. They said the same
thing about Lover, but I think with Lover there was
a lot of anxiety right the love songs was.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Cornelia Street was already setting up for like I hope
I never lose you. Yeah, Like she's projecting that she's
going to on Lover she knows.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, whereas now she's like this guy saved me from
my sadness and isn't this fun? Let's do a dance.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, And it's not necessarily the most relatable for some people.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I did see.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
People saying online this made me cackle, but I do
think it's true. They were like they bought tickets to
Hairspray and then expected La misera.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, oh my god, isn't that so true?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Like she's made it clear this is an album of
bops and like an album about how obsessed she is
with her football playing fiance who she loves dearly, Like, yeah,
maybe we're not going to relate, but you can have
a boogie.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And I saw a lot of criticism too that it
kind of misunderstood Ophelia's story from Hamlet, and I was
a little bit like, but it's her. I don't think
she's trying to tell I don't think it's meant to
be a history lesson in that particular Shakespearean story. There's
been thousands of words written about Ophelia's plight and what
it means and how the men kind of wronged her
in that and everything. I think Taylor's a sort of
(17:36):
just kind of like cherry picking one little thread from
that story and putting it into her song, and that
feels okay. I don't think we need her whole story.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think tragic is when she said she was the
English teacher, they were like, she's going to explain the
plot of this play.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I might have to just read, like you might just
need to read something.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Doesn't everyone look for what they relate to in a character.
I mean, it's actually what Swifties look for and what
we're talking about now, what they relate to in her songs.
They cherry picked the bits that do. There are things
that I relate to weirdly. I relate to Father Figure,
but there's a lot of this album that I just
don't relate to and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I take away what I do.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, and I need to relate to every song in
the world. Sometimes I just want to bop. No.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I really love like there's something mesmerizing about that first
verse of Ophelia for me, Like something about Fortnite from
Torture Poets really like captured me. And I know it's
just because it was like it was a big song,
million like billions of streams, I believe, but like there's
something in the voice that's just so hypnotic to me
that like that song. When I started listening, I was like, oh,
like my eye was twitching. I was like, this album
is gonna be good.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah. I really the real tone and quality that she has.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And then it goes into Elizabeth Taylor, which also is
a bit like about Travis and like.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It's like he's the Richard Burton, She's the Elizabeth Taylor.
The amount of people in mine who have said I
just met out Elizabeth Taylor's a real person. I can't
deal with that. She hasn't been dead for that long
and she's one of the most famous Hollywood icons in
the entire world. Like I feel like she's this isn't
gonna become a history lessen Elizabeth Taylor. But I just
I could not believe this.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Also isn't the first time Taylor's reference to Elizabeth Taylor.
There was the reference on.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Rare and like, do we think she just likes saying
the name because she it's to say, she's like.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
That's a cool way to pick like one of the
biggest Hollywood icons ever and someone who's synonymous with glamour
but also being ripped part by the media, someone whose
love life has been dissected, someone whose mythology became bigger
than the person they are, Like, that's Elizabeth Taylor.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I saw people saying like, oh, she shouldn't compare
herself to her, she's an icon.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It's like, but I think they've had a lot of
similar shad Taylorsift can compare herself to Elizabeth Taylor and
that's not discrediting Elizae Taylor's legacy. But no, she was
a worldwide superstar and if you don't agree that, Taylor
Swift is also a worldwide superstar, so I feel like
that's okay. And I think the line like be my
n y when Hollywood hates me, that is like what
makes it so tailor swift to me because she has
famously escaped to her New York penthouse when the world
(19:50):
has hated her, and like.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I think that's really cool, and constantly uses New York
as a symbol for the right man.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yes, yeah, and speaking of the right man, we'll have
to talk briefly. That would because that's another song that
a lot of the critics got a bit touchy about,
saying that it was superstition. It was too Yeah, I know,
it's that supersition of black cats and nothing else, but
that was also something that critics were saying was a
bit cheap and just wasn't up to her usual lyrical standards.
I think the thing with that, first of all, not
(20:19):
happy about that looked.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
When I first heard it, I was cackling because I
was like, why am I hearing about Travis Kelsey's penis?
It'd also be Jackson five. But then I thought why not?
Because I have a great time listening to that song,
and also the first lines of that song are Daisy's
bare naked. I was distraught, he loves me not? He
loves me not? What a great way to talk about
picking flowers off a daisy and saying whether he loves.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Me or not. So lyricism is not dead is here
to save us with poetry about penises. Actually, I think
it's a really fun song.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And she's spent years with Sabrina and her friend who's
writing all of these fun, catchy, silly songs about like
having sex.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Is it a bit cringe? Sure? But I still had fun?
Or do you think she that was modeled off Sabrina,
which again is what people are saying.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Not necessarily modeled, because I don't think that she needs that.
But I think she's like, I'm in my mid thirties.
I can write about having good sex if I want to.
She did it with Guilty as Sin on Tortured Poets,
and I think now that she's doing a fun, poppy album,
she was like, actually, what don't I have a bit
of fun with it?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Like every other pop girl that there is.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, exactly, And if she wants to go from I
don't know the smallest man who ever lived to Travis
and he's Redwood and sing about it.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Oh wait to stop her.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You know what I do love is that there was
an Ariana Grande fan who tweeted a really long time
ago about Taylor Swift and they were like, I guarantee
you and Taylor Swift writ's about sex.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
She's gonna be like his Redwood sap for ok Forest.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I actually think the Redwood line in Wood is
her acknowledging because she has proven with this album. She
might pretend she's not online, she has proven with this
album that she's very chronically online and sees everything we
all say.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Which I think we always want, which we well.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, but she's referenced and she's referenced a lot in
other lyrics. So I do actually thin because people on
Twitter went, oh my god, she actually did how embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
No, No, she's in on the joke and she's she's.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Just making fun of herself that you would think that
that's what she'd say, So she's gonna say it and
it's funny and it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I do actually really enjoy that. So well, this is
the woman that used to like track her fans so
she knew he would invite to events and things. It's
quite nice that she's so in the weeds of what
her fans are saying and not just concentrating on what
critics are saying. What are people who are giving awards
are doing. Moving on to one of the other songs
that has really fired up a lot of conversation, Actually Romantic.
(22:28):
So there was that moment on New Heights where she
said actually romantic and Jason Kelsey was like, I know what,
that's a belt. But I think we now know it's
not about Travis Kelsey. It's about who do we think
it's about.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
It's not about Travis, It's about Charlie.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's about Charlie X.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And you're explaining to people who are not across the discourse,
which might be a lot of people. I mean, you know,
we live and breathe this well, but I think a
lot of people are just like, what's happening between her?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I will say at the top of this, I am
a fan of Charlie. I'm a fan of I think
we all are. I really loved the song Sympathy is
a nice If you don't know, it's a song that
Charlie releases part of her album bra It is a
song where she speaks about another woman being in her
space because they're dating two friends, and she speaks about
how she wants all this sympathy, but she's also getting
(23:12):
all this sympathy because she can't compete with this woman.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
This woman is.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
She says like, I'm opposite, I'm on the other side,
that this girl is like everything that she's not, and
that she feels inferior to her and that she feels inadequate.
And when charlie'spoken about the song, she's been like, it's
very much a narrative of like the stories I tell myself,
the self doubt that I have, the way that I
feel when I see this person, and how bad they
make me feel about myself, And the undercurrent of the
song is I hope she breaks up with him because
(23:36):
I don't want to have to hang out with her.
I don't want to share the space with her because
she makes me feel like shit just by simply existing.
That song is very widely believed to be and it
is about Taylor Swift. When Taylor was dating Maddie Healy
and Charlie XX was dating George Daniel, both of the
nineteen seventy five Charlie and GEORGEA now married, it was
like a long time kind of coming that Taylor and
(23:57):
Maddie would date publicly, long term, ten year situationship For
anyone who doesn't know he's the muse of Tortured Poets Department.
But when they broke up after that, some things started
to happen that maybe made it clear that I.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Don't know, maybe there wasn't friendship so much between Charlie
and Taylor.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Then Charlie releases Sympathy as and I've seemingly things are
fine because Taylor's dancing to Charlie's album at the Grammys
with Margaret Qually. They're having a great time.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
And we all just think, like, you know what, it's
over and done, and it's not.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
No, no, it's not.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Because now we have the song actually Romantic. Do you
want to go into what the vibe of actually Romantic is?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I mean, I think what's really interesting here is seeing
all this discourse about it and seeing people jump up
and down and really feel the need to stand up
for Charlie and.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Like she's like, like she needs help.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I mean, I think if anyone is not going to
be bothered too much by this and also can stand
up for herself, it's Charlie. I find that really strange.
I also find it really strange that people are taking
Taylor's song and thinking that the only reference point is
Charlie's song.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, because it's absolutely it's.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Not absolutely not And they're saying, oh, Charlie wrote this
quite whist full song about family, beautiful song it is,
and saying, you know, I'm so overwhelmed by your success
that it makes me feel bad about myself and that's
quite a nice thing to say.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Really. Yeah, but it's not a standalone. It's not a.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Standalone and these people have private lives, and people gossip,
and the industry is small, and so little bits of
information have filtered back to Taylor, which is which is
from the lyrics liked you called me boring Barbie. That's
not on the song, so she's heard that elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, And there is a tweet circulating there is that
shows Maddie Heay in like June of twenty twenty three
talking about going to dinner with Charlie, and Charlie also
talked about it. They both posted into the stories and
on his to do list discussion for the evening is
to talk about his breakup with Margot Robbie famously didn't
date Margot Robbie, but who else would be a Barbie
at that summer of Barbie and Erra's tour where Taylor
(26:04):
Swift and so if she's hearing that like as well,
sorry contact spillers. Taylor did bring Chars onto the nineteen
eighty nine and reputation tours. They have professionally worked together,
They've been friendly in the industry, seemingly been friends.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I assume Taylor and has given her that platform, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Assume that they hung out when they were dating band members.
Otherwise we're with the song have come from. So in
Taylor's perception, probably like, oh, okay, we were friendly, they've
broken up.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
She hears all this gossip.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Then Charlie releases a public song that's very seemingly like
nice about her.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
But is still out of the blue.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I can understand why for Taylor that has all read
and there's all this personal stuff we don't know about.
I'm very interested in who the leak is because they
cross circles a lot. Yeah, like Gracie Abrams, Margaret Cowley,
Sabrina Carpenter, Jack Antonoff. There are so many people in
Taylor's circle who are crossing parths.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
With charlie circle as well.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
But I do think it's a little bit strange that
people are like, oh, poor Charlie she did nothing wrong.
She just released this nice song, and Taylor's bullying her, Like,
I think there's more at play here.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I also think we don't care when rappers beef. We
have a great time.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
We don't care when other artists beef for some reason.
It's like this narrative of these two songs, which once
you make me so insecure about myself Taylor's song is
that's funny. I never think of you at all. Yeah,
it's very cutting and very silly and petty, but it
is that's the vibe. These songs are not actually being
really vicious about each other. They're just being two pop
girls singing songs. Yeah, and on the vicious thing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
It's kind of interesting because I saw a lot of
criticism of people saying that she should be above this.
Now she's clearly the more powerful one, she's the richer one,
she's the more successful one than anyone, and so it's
embarrassing for her to be bringing up all of these
like smaller like grievances and things that she has. But
I actually think that's super honest because I think we
would all know, like not that any of us would
know what it's like to be Taylor Swift, But I
(27:48):
think you would know that, like, no matter how successful
you are and how loved you are, those little kind
of whether they're imagined or real, like slights from someone
or something it was a friend or a professional person,
Like they're the things that keep you up at night. Yeah,
They're the things that like pull in your chair. I've
had days where like our podcast is going crazy and
artic crime writing is going viral, and like I'm getting
all this love across social and all this love at work,
(28:10):
and then I'll be thinking of something that like a
former colleague said to someone else that I know they said,
and like that, and that just eats away at you. Yeah,
and it eats away at all the good too.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, And I feel like that it's weird of us
to think that Taylor Swift would be above that when
she is just a human. And also if she doesn't
write about that, then people are saying she's too unrelatable
if she only writes about being a billionaire, So now
she's writing about the most human thing you can experience,
and then we don't like that either. And just let
the girl have a even if it's a petty beef.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Just let her have it exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And I think that that is really what was going
on behind the Girls tour. You know, she had that
breakup with Maddie during the Eras tour, So what she
was talking about, what she was texting her friends about
and having conversations with And you know, she had friends
like Sabrina opening for her, you know, and Gracie and
the heim sisters. They're her real friends. So when she's
(28:58):
sitting backstage in her dressing room with her friends talking,
this is the stuff they would have been talking about exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, And I think it's like I guess for me,
I was a little bit like, oh no, Like I
think any Taylor Swift and knows what it was like
when we were in that reputation era and people just
hated Taylor and felt the need to tell you that
every five seconds.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I just hated an artist and felt the need to
point it out. But that was how people behaved.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
And I just like, as soon as she did this,
and I saw it start to pick up online, like
you said, where they're like, how dare she like actually
speak out about this? She should have done this, I
was like, oh, she should have turned on my own
because she was looking pretty good at the Grammys when
she was dancing to Charlie and not taking the bait.
But I do think it's very human and it is
very Taylor swift to go and another thing like to go.
You know what, I'm not gonna just let the public
(29:45):
perception be that all this girl did was write a
nice song about me, because in Taylor's mind, that's not
what happened, and she doesn't want that to be the thing.
And all I'll say is Charlie XCX herself tweeted that
she hates boring pop stars, and she said she loves
mess and everyone needs to take things a bit less seriously,
because she said in exclamation points, nothing matters. This was
obviously before the song, but that was her own thing.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Does this really matter? I don't think it does.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Like I will have playlists this summer where Brat and
The Life of a Show GOL sit on the same
playlist and I can enjoy both.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And I think, I guess what I think if you
ever move like the way this was dominating my feed
this weekend was I genuinely was like, Oh, you guys
have done something evil to each other.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You would think like if you take all of it away.
It's a funny song. You don't have to like it.
You can think it's a cringe song, but it's funny
as well, to be.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Like, you're like a tiny chihuahua bar Yeah, and I
don't think about you ever and I hate you, but
also I've written a whole song about you that's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, and that was such a specific callback to the
early two thousands. Yeah, we loved that. She's just so malonnial,
like really honestly, it is just like so Houswive, so
Paris and Nicole Coder so like vintage silly banger. I
like it.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Same bottom line is the low road can be funny.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
The low road can be funny. And which is going
to get the segue in us into the other song
that is making a lot of different headlines, which is Canceled,
BREDI you want to take us through the context of cancer, Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Canceled is interesting, and I think people were questioning whether
there would be a song on this album that referenced
her famous friendships and ones that people have speculated in
recent times may not be going so well. Names that
came up were obviously Blake Lively is the main name
that has come up. You know, there's been her friendship
(31:30):
with Brittany Mahomes as well. We definitely get a reference
to Sophie Turner in this song, which I think is
really fun and I'm so here for it. But Canceled
ultimately is Taylor talking about her friends that have been
canceled for whatever reason in the media. It's something that
Taylor is an expert in being canceled. She's done the
(31:51):
whole album about it, She's talked about it a lot,
and so because of that, she's kind of become the
hairtaker amongst her friends, but also amongst industry people you
know that reach out to her when it happens to
them to say, well, how did you weather this storm?
How did you survive it? And because she's been through it,
and this is what this song is about, she's not
(32:13):
quick to judge people, and she knows that you do
actually come out the other side.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Generally, I think what's interesting is people this is probably
what you're referencing. People have been calling the song tone
deaf because they're like, why is she thinking about being canceled?
Like cancelations like really serious? And there's people who have
done awful things. The people she's referencing, like Sophie Turner,
Blake Lively, and like a little bit Selena Gomez as well,
is like what they're being canceled for. I mean, I
don't know how the Spillers feel about Blake Lively, but
(32:40):
like what they're being what they're feeling canceled for in
the case of Sophie Turner, etcetera, is not they didn't
commit a fence.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
The way that we're talking to Sophie Turner Lyeric we're
talking about is like did they catch you having too
much fun? Which is the accusation against Sophie at the
time that she was she was a.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Part and out having dinner with Taylor out of the city.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, but it was like, you know, she's divorcing from
drog And the reason that I made that connection was
that she does in the introduction to the song say
that like, because this is her experience and her history,
she now known as the person other women in Hollywood
call when they feel like they've been canceled, And like
Sophie and Taylor were friendlee while she was married to
Joe Jonas, but like it sounds very much like she
called Taylor up and went, this is what's happening.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I need a place.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Taylor gave her her place in New York City this day.
She took her out to dinner. She made sure that
paparazzi saw them, that people knew she was aligned with
her and throwing her support behind her, because she knows
what it feels like when you get those headlines that
are like she's a party girl, she's the worst. She
left Joe high and dry, so like there is that connection.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And how isolating it is, which I think you know,
Taylor has talked about a lot, and that was her
experience with reputation and that she felt like she had
to hide. So the wisdom that she's imparting to her
friends is don't hide because it didn't serve her well.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
The Easter eggs I found interesting for Blake is that
like none of us noticed that the jewelry Taylor is
wearing some of the Life of a Show golf photo
shoots is Blake's stewelry.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, which is huge, And that's been the story. I mean,
we've talked about heapshlon and still that it looked to
the naked eye, to the outsiders that their friendship is
completely over and that's probably the biggest sign we've had
that that is.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Actually and I think it's interesting because this album was
recorded last year, before things with the lawsuit had really escalated.
But I also think if she didn't feel that way currently,
she wouldn't have a song, or she wouldn't be wearing
the jewelry and the photo shoots because the photo shoots
were not last year, you know. And so she's wearing
a bracelet that Blake wa to the It Ends with
Us premiere in one of the pictures, which is the
(34:30):
picture on Spotify when you.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Press play on the song.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
It was like a custom piece, a customer piece for
the It Ends with Us premiere. She's wearing the Gucci
earrings that Blake water one of the met galas, so
like Gucci.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Is also referenced in the song.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yes, and she says like, you know, poisoned thorny flowers,
obviously referencing like all the floral stuff. I think one
of the most interesting lines is when she's like tone
deaf and hot, let's off her, because that was the
whole thing with Blake, right, like the whole.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Campaign being And there's so many in the song.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
There's a lot of Blake in this song, and it's her,
but there's so many references and lyrics in this song
that point to the exact things that were happening. Of
like she's tone deaf, let's off her. That was very
much the vibe was that Blake was tone deaf and
hot and she was annoying. Suddenly, when previously people had
been like, she's so funny and we love her hair,
suddenly was I hate that girl and she is bad hair. Also,
I think interesting to note because Taylor, when she does
(35:19):
name drop a designer, she's not associated with any designers.
So when she does name drop a designer, it's.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
For a reason.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
She wore a lot of Gucci during the reputation era,
and in particular one of the outfits that she wore
in the Look What You Made Me Do video, but
also on stage for that era. So it's just those
parallels that we always see Taylor.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
She's roasting a time when she was canceled. That's so
interesting because people read that in a very top level
way of saying like she's dropping designers because she wants
to show she's rich, which I didn't think. But I
think when there's so much critique around an album, You're
going to have so many different layers that people aren't
picking up on. So that's an interesting one.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
We don't think it's a surprise she's rich.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I mean, yeah, what a shocking, What a shock when
he tells millions and millions of records, has a lot
of money and can buy Gucci.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, it's interesting. That's coming back to a time when
she was feeling her most canceled. The other song that
people think there's a famous name connected to, and this
was the more tenuous one for me. So love you
guys to jump into this is father Figure and the
potential link to Olivia Rodrigo. Wait, is Father Figure a
divisive You both just know what you're talking about. Yes,
we know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
We've talked about this song a lot, and Tina was
the first to read my review, which she read before.
As we talked about earlier, Tina had to upload my review. Yes,
so she read that before she listened to the album,
and the one note that she sent to me was,
oh my god, is this Olivia Shay pick it up?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Just from that, I was scared. I was like, no,
what's that happened?
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Look, this one is really divisive and it's funny, and
it is one that I have had comments from fans
and non fans, well, non Taylor fans. I've had comments
from Olivia fans saying that I'm wrong about this being
about Olivia.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
I don't think I am.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I'm okay to be wrong though as well, like it
is fine if I am, but to me, I do believe.
And with the use of the George Michael song and
the way that Taylor has really labored the topic of
how she sought full permission to use this song, which
(37:27):
for spillers that don't know, there is a whole backstory
with Taylor and Olivia who Taylor took her under her wing.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Olivia used two of Taylor's.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Songs without permission or without seeking the correct permission for it,
and then had to backtrack, and Taylor and Jack's names
were put on writing credits in retrospect, and we have
not seen those two publicly in publicly interact ever since.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
And there were rumors that Olivia's song Vampire was about Taylor,
like people think there was a connection there.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah, yeah, that is true.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
So the other thing that people have said to me
about it is, oh, well, like father figure that's male's son.
The father son relationship. Typically, fans referred to Olivia and
Taylor as mother and daughter. To Tay daughter, you know,
it's a thing. Not everything has to be literal, yes,
And I think that this is really fun to spin
(38:21):
it and have it as a father and son. I
also think Taylor has used the metaphor of when she
takes these people under her wing, and you know, Gracie Sabrina,
you know, she does see herself as kind of a
caretaker of these new ones coming through because she has
sat at all those tables with all those executive men,
(38:41):
and she has had to prove time and time again
that she can stand up to them and has had to.
So I think to cast herself in that light in
this relationship, to me makes sense.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah, And I mean I also read it obviously like
you're saying of the stuff that she had to deal
with Scott Borschheer and Scooter Braun, because she talks obviously
about like the deals and the shadiness and the things
that were going on behind the scenes. But obviously I
think that's just informed it. And when this album came out,
she had kind of said a bit of Night teen
eighty nine beats with folklore storytelling, and that really upset
(39:15):
people when the album came out and they heard it
because they went, you were wrong, that's not what this is.
But with Father Figure and a few other songs, I'm like, no,
she is doing this narrative storytelling because look at all
the discussions we're having about Father Figure, about canceled, about
these songs and going, wait, who is this about?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Who related?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
What part is she playing in this song because it's
very clear at first to some people that it's about
Scott and Scooter, but maybe it's not because there is
a key change, and then she starts talking about how
she's the Father Figure, So it's like it's total to
be her own interpretations as well of how she can
lead women in the industry. That doesn't mean that it's
all positive her interactions, right, She's clearly referencing some stuff
(39:50):
that went down that maybe, or at least we think
she might be referencing some of the stuff that went
down with Olivia along with the things that she herself experienced.
But also that then she does want to do a
better job of guiding people like Sabrina and Gracie, those
other artists so.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It's a it's a complicated well, I guess it wouldn't
be a passage album if it wasn't layered and like
full of bops but also questions and all those things
that we us new swifties are really getting into.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
But I think this is an album non Sifties who
just like a bop will enjoy, Like people will enjoy
this album and not need to.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Care No, and like you don't need to know these backstories.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
It's fun. It's hard being a.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Swift It's the Easter eggs, It's you know, what we
talk about. You know, it's what swifties talk about online,
It's what we talk about with our friends. Yeah, but
you can still enjoy the music without knowing all of this.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
But there's there's a couple of songs I have major
beef with on this album.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
But like as we finish up now, like your favorite favorite,
but you can also say the ones you have beef
with quickly do you a quick? So quick one?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Track five is normally the song that is like emotionally fraught,
really like powerful, like not always, but very often, the
track five of a Taylor Swift album is the big
hitter emotionally so this one was called Elder's Daughter, and
everyone was bracing for it because they were like, oh, like,
it's going to be really sad, it's going to be
this nap. I know so many people who listen to
this song. I think Breeze one of them who really
love it and who felt it or like at least
(41:10):
really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I skipped that.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Song the first four times I heard it, and I
skipped it at the exact same point, and it is
when she says that eldest daughters are like lambs raised
for slaughter, and then they put on their outfits and
they look fire.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
And I was like, I've had enough of you, Taylor's
I love that. That's a bit of a personal issue.
What it might just be the middle child in me, But.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
You sit, I'm a middle child, and I think I've
had it with eldest daughter, and how every eldest daughter.
I'm pretty sure there's too right here? Possibly are you
I'm a middle child?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
An No? Okay, no? Did you skip it to because
I was like, I've had it with the eldest daughters.
Imagine the middle forgotten child? Also, can you be an
eldest daughter if you're the only daughter is my thing
about Taylor Swift.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
I think you can.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
There was a lot of discourse, you're the only girl,
who are you committing?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
And I am in a bridge of the song now
that I eventually made it, but I still still don't
like the song.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
But that's fine.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I am an eldest daughter and now well I wanted
to be No, that's the.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Thing I have to say. I really like the song.
I don't love it. I do love the lamb to
the slaughter part.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
That is actually my favorite part.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Yes, and I.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Do relate to being an eldest daughter. As I say,
I always look for the song that I relate to
the most.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
This I thought would be it.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Hands down. I thought it would be it.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
I've also had the most elder s daughter year of
my life.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Which I'm not going to go into right now.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
But I was expecting this to be a real gut
punch for me, like we know track five songs are.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
This wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
And I don't want to blame this, but I really
would have loved to have seen this in the hands
of Aaron Dezna instead of Smart and yeah, look.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
My other skip is wish List. I don't care for that.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
That's my least favorite too, and Taylor says it's her favorite,
and maybe.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Where maybe we're wrong. I just don't care. Maybe we're
just not happy enough. I mean, what are your favorite
what you've been yelling along to?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I love the drama of Elizabeth Taylor, I love favor
I love a lot of these songs. The one for
me is Opolite. I'm rebranding it as a Christmas song
because of the and the bells, like it is giving Christmas,
and all these people hate it and I'm just like
bopping along in my living room song. And it's Travis
Kelsey's two so maybe it's me and him too.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Bees in a podcas and Kelsey had the same tasty music.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
And as Graham Norton's favorite too, So we're in your company,
Graham and Travis. A little quotette, what's your favorite? So
my absolute favorite is Father Figure. I have listened to
it on repeat so much good. I actually really do
relate to it.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
That's weird. And I also love.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
The Life of a Show Girl with Sabrina. I think
it is so much fun. I love the storytelling on
this and I think that it goes back to that,
you know, classic storytelling that Taylor does that we saw
in Love Story, that we saw in you know, the
Greater Maria Dynasty, and a lot of the songs that
also had that show girl theming back in the day,
you know, like the Lucky One on Red and some
(44:20):
of those earlier. Yeah, real storytelling. It's a story that
she has lived, and I don't think anyone is sort
of better equipped today as a pop star to talk
about what it means to be a pop star now,
and then Sabrina speaks about it from that sort of.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Up and comer perspective.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah. Well, thank you Tina and Brief for those very
in depth critiques and for sharing all your thoughts on
this album as anything with Taylor Allison Swift. So much
to say. But we also link Breeze review in the
show notes so you can read a more in depth
story there. But yeah, just happy to have you both
here and thank you so much for listening to The Spill.
Stay as always. If you're more behind the scenes more
about the Spill, you can follow us on Instagram at
(45:01):
The Spill Podcast and we will see you back here
in your feed tomorrow at eight am for morning tea.
Bye bye bye Halla loll it ll it,
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that
this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome to
the Spill your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura Brodnick,
and today we're here for a very special episode because
(00:32):
we're going to be decoding and disgusting and maybe fighting
about Taylor Swift's new album, The Life of the Show Girl.
And because this is such a special event, I've had
to bring in two experts, so we have Tina Burke,
would like to share your Taylor Swift credentials and I'll
decide if you're allowed to stay at the table.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, I am Mamma MIA's pop culture and social editor,
so for work, I'm very online. I've been a Swiftie
since the Fearless era, and I met her in the
Fearless era because I won tickets through the radio.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So it's very credentials, very deep in Taylor Swifts. I've
touched her hand, we've had a moment. It's been fun,
huge news. A few light restraints out there.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Zero point zero five percent of fans on Spotify wrapped
every year like listen to her more than some people
listen to music in total.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So I guess there's that. You know, I am a
swifty of source. Okay, you can stay. Thanks, And on
my other side, if you're watching this on YouTube, we
have preplayer and can you explain your credentials? We might leave.
We might leave a good ten minutes of the pod
for this because you are our secret swifty insider for
this episode. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So, I've been a fan of Taylor since debut Era.
When I have to give my sister a shout out,
she said, You've got to listen to this new singer
I found. We went and saw her in Melbourne at Billboard.
The venue I don't even think it exists anymore, but
venue capacity of about three hundred people. I have since
seen her I think seventeen times. Wow, seven of which
(01:56):
was on the eras you.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Were like jetting across the world.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah. So I did LA, I did for Sydney, I
did Miami, and I did New Orleans. I have wrapped
up just as many hours, if not more, then then.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Tina has lost.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I did calculate over the weekend how many minutes I
spent listening to the torture parts department. It was over
seventy thousand. Wow, it's been a year, guys.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, so you left this year alone, not even the
album releases. Yeah, exactly. You're a big sifety. You're also
the executive producer of Mumba's podcast No Filter. We've roped
you in for this, Yes, you wrote me in for
this today are a Tails insider. You actually received this
new album quite early? Is that you can tell us through.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
That I did?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So the last couple of albums I have been sent
in advance to review, which I feel like is the
whole reason why I do my job. And actually I
got sent it a little bit earlier than I expected.
I was actually out at dinner on Wednesday and it
landed with me, and then I had to go and
sit through an entire opening night of Rent with it
(03:03):
burning a.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Hole in my pocket.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I cove run out of the run home, but I
did as soon as I got home put it on.
So I had a listen that night a couple of
times through before I went to bed.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, and you wrote a review for mom and me
that we shared on the side, And so it's on
the weekend and everyone was sharing it across to you know,
have their big feelings.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, which we have so many feelings. So now we've
established both your credentials and just a fanchise. Just I
like her a lot, but I will say many hours
of my life spent on the family computer back in
high school looking up every debut performance she'd ever done
being on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Does anyone remember when she performed with def Leopard? If
you do, not, go watch it right now. She's like
a teenager performing with like a sixty year old rock band.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It's so good. But we've we've dedicated our lives to
loving her. So here we are today. Yeah, now that
I've got my two experts absolutely, which I must say,
you've both decorated, or you've decorated if you're watching this
on a YouTube channel Swifty than Yeah, we've got the
new record here the life of a showgir, which are
going to chat about. There are friendship bracelets draped across
(04:08):
the table. There's Taylor Swift memorabilia behind me. Yeah, it's
a real Why didn't even say that one before nineteen
eighty nine? Right behind me Taylor's verse? Do you want
to tell the spillers? What's on your wrist? Laura? Oh?
I have three friendship bracelets that were gifted to me
by Tina Burke when she heard that. I went to
the RAS tour, which is the first time teen Taylor Swiftly,
and I really did like Sweller Alert. I thought it
was a good show. Whatever said that, this is a
(04:32):
great show, this kid's great and no one gave me
a friendship bracelet. I don't know if I have an
off putting aura or yeah, I think I do. People
always say this.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Maybe people could smell it was your first show.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, they were like, no, I'm a real fan. So
Tina gave me these and I'm so excited to wear
them and maybe I'll pill for some off the table.
So we are talking about the Life of a show Girl,
which came out on Friday. It broke streaming records across Spotify,
Apple Music, and Amazon Music. It also sold I think
a two point seven million copies in a single day,
(05:04):
which is the single highest ever behind Adele. But then
it also went on to break all the vinyl records,
which I think is where the truth fans like yourselves
were buying, with one point two millions sold in the
first twenty four hours, which topped the Tortured Poets Department,
So Taylor sieved beating herself and she's gone on to
break many a record since then. So we're going to
(05:24):
do first impressions free first impressions of the album.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, my first impression, obviously I listened after three hours
of Rent late at night, but my first impression was
that it wasn't what well, actually, I didn't have any expectations.
It wasn't what anyone was expecting, and that was the
first thing that hit me. We know that she's returned
to having Max Martin and Shellback producing this album after
many years of Jack Antonov and Aaron Dezna, so everyone
(05:51):
was expecting really poppy vibes, which we got on nineteen
eighty nine with Max and Shellback producing and most of
REP as well. It's not like either of those And
for the people that were expecting it, I think there's
been some comments that people aren't that wrapped in it,
that we're hoping for a nineteen eighty nine part two.
I wasn't hoping for nineteen eighty nine part two. I'm
(06:13):
really enjoying it. I love this album. It's not my
favorite album, but it will get a lot of rotations.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
For me, what's your favorite album? Just so I know
what we're kind of measuring again.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I would say Poets, so interesting, yeah, I would say Poets.
And this is the opposite end of the spectrum. You've
got like devastated Taylor versus happy Taylor. Yeah, or like
a statically confident happy Taylor. So it's, you know, total
opposite sides of the spectrum.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
I love a sad song.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, yeah, that's so true. And Tina, what were your
first impressions because you were sitting alone at home on Friday,
his workdays, and you were like, I could feel the
tension across our like text message and stuff on the
day of the build up, so you were quite you're
quite nervous. I was nervous.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And then like, you know, two PM hits in every
group chat I've ever been a part of. Everyone's texting
me to tell me they've started, and like they're like
live texting their reactions. But I'm working and setting liveze
amazing review of putting it across our social channels and
doing work. All of this Showgirl reaction.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I think your boss would have mind if you listened
to that people, you're my boss.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
If you would have mind if you listened to it
and like, I was getting up social post because Taylor
Post is some picks. So it was maybe like fifteen
twenty minutes after it had come out. I started listening
to it and like, I feel like I'm getting bombarded
with messages. Well it's happening, So it's a bit strange.
But my reaction to the first four tracks was this
was nothing like I expected. I think the same. I
didn't know what sound to expect from her. I think
this is a different sound than what she has done before.
(07:39):
The theming was very different. I was really enjoying it.
I thought she sounded just like super Ethereal. Even though
it was poppy. I was loving it. Didn't love track five.
We can talk about that in depth later, but I
think my overall reaction to the album is I really
love some of these songs.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
They are songs I want to dance to. They are
songs I want to like Blast in the Car. It's
not my.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Favorite album, and I also I'm okay with that, Like
the girl has given us her entire life and all
of her music and all of her albums, and everything
doesn't have to be for me all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I don't really sure.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I think if you see the way some people have
reacted online, way to god, Taylor murdered them like it's fine,
she can release a pop album and you don't have
to like it.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
But I actually do.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I really like some of the songs. I think they're
really fun and I had a good time. I'll definitely
be playing this one and repeat. But no, it's not
my top of the top nana.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Okay. So with that in mind, now we know we're
all our players, Stan, I think it feels like a
good time to get into some of the reactions and
some of the criticism and praise before we start deep
diving into some songs from the album. So when it
came out, there were some very very positive, glowing reviews.
Yours was very positively Rolling Stone, quite a few others.
There were quite a few negative ones. The New York
(08:43):
mag went to town saying that she's lost her sound.
It was an imaginative and inventive and a lot of
other very intense things. I think the standout critique for
me came from The Guardian, who said dull razzle, dazzle
from a musician who seems frazzled. So very kind of
across the board, and I wanted to get your thoughts
on some of the biggest I guess some of the
(09:04):
biggest critiques of it, since you guys are in the
weeds of it. And one of the biggest critiques that
came strow off the back is that people felt miss
led by the Showgirl messaging and felt like she had
done a huge marketing push with the Showgirl asthetic basically
because she thought that would be very good visually, but
it didn't tie into the album. Yeah, I mean it.
I'm just saying this is this is one of the
(09:25):
big critique I think you What I will say is
that I relate to that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I think she made it super clear that this was
the life behind the scenes of a showgirl. But obviously
the aesthetic itself is showgirl because she's in all the outfits.
She looks incredible, and maybe she just wanted to look
really cute and as Sparkley song and I think that's okay,
but she looks amazing, she's in all this showgirl stuff.
I think some people were a little bit disappointed that
there weren't more songs that were like the really intense
and an intense version of I Can Do It with
(09:50):
a Broken Heart from Tortured Poets. I think some people
thought that would be the whole vibe of the album,
but she made it pretty clear that this was her
life behind the scenes. It's just that maybe it is
a bit more focused on her like actual life and
the things that were happening to her personally, rather than
here's what it's like to deal with all this pressure
and all this fame. There's still songs that address it,
there's still things that do but I understand a little
bit of the disappointment maybe.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
But I got over that very quickly. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I think that like the artwork that we've seen with
the big zig field folly plumes and razzle dazz on,
all that sparkle and everything, there are people that have
been misled thinking that they're going to get Broadway.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
The Greater Showman, right.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
But this is the album cover, like we have seen
lots of other artwork. But she looks like a pop
star here. She looks like what she is, you know.
And she talked about in the making of the Ophelia
of Music video that she wants to focus on the
showgirl through the different eras to what she is today,
and we did just see her stage the biggest show
(10:48):
in the world. So her behind the scenes of being
a showgirl in the twenty twenties is.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
This, and there are songs that address it, and we're
gonna die into them. But in terms of yeah, the criticism, like,
as much as I think they're valid things to critique,
I think everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Some of
the criticism I've learned to just brush off a little
bit with Taylor because she.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Don't mean to shake it off.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Oh look at you a secretly the biggest check your credit,
But yeah, I do. I learned to shake it off
because people react to the same way every time. There
has not been a Taylor album in my lifetime that
people haven't reacted to by going, she sucks, she fell off.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
This is the worst thing she's ever done except folklore.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Except Folklore, which then I think there were people that
said it in quite a condescend exactly. It was like,
how did you do this? You know, you managed to
put out this album.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
That's actually good, And she said all in the lead
up to this, right, this was supposed to be twelve
type tracks, sonically themed like really high production, really hyper pop,
because the complaints about Tortured Poets Department was that too
many songs, not edited enough, too wordy, to whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And then you know, for Midnights.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
There were complaints as well that like the pop sound
they didn't like because it wasn't the same as folklore
and evermore. And then there were complaints about Rep and
Lover because those had too many cringe lyrics, those had
too many bops. So while I appreciate everyone's ability to
complain and have the critiques that they want to have,
I'm also like, it's just the way it is now.
She's reached a height where people get mad, and I think, okay,
we're so used to it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Anyway, it's the same cycle every time. There'll be the
glowing reviews that generally come from places that matter, you know,
Rolling Stone, Billboard, the places she cares about and cares
about what they have to say, The New York Times
as well. Then there's always the negative ones because they
get good engagement and all of that kind of thing.
But also, we don't need everyone.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
To love it in order to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I actually love if they didn't, because getting tickets was
really hard. Yeah, you would love the fandom to just have.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I got floor seats so close to the stage and reputation,
and then I couldn't even buy tickets to the errors
to her, I don't actually mind if she falls off
a little bit. I'm not worried about that, and I
don't think Taylor is.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Also, you know, as you pointed out already for people
saying they don't like it or getting bad reviews or whatever.
It's on track to potentially eclipse Adele's first week sales
and is projected to hit three point five to four million.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And I guess for me, the one thing from the
critiques that I'm seeing from a lot of major swifties
and from maybe some of these reviews that I thought,
you know, what I do agree with that is that
there wasn't that one standout song for me that normally
like punches me in the gut. And it doesn't necessarily
have to be about heartbreak or sadness. It doesn't matter
what it is, but there is always like something on
there that pulls out and you really relate to, no
(13:32):
matter who you are. And I am seeing people say
that there's not necessarily a relatability in this album, and
not because she's in love because she's written about being
in love before, but that maybe and again, well, this
is the life of a show goal. It's not really relatable,
and I don't think it was ever meant to be.
But I do agree with the Swifties who were like, oh,
I feel like they can't put their finger on what
it is. Yeah, they like something's missing for them, and
I do understand that because I love a lot of
(13:53):
songs and I'm loving this album, but I get it
there's something that isn't there for me.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And that's the other sort of criticism. I wanted to
get you both your thoughts song, because one is that
she's become overly unrelatable. There's too many mentions to wealth
and her star status. And the other one is that
the lyricism a lot of critics are saying has fallen
off and there's some very unfair ties to Joe Owen,
her former partner of many years, people saying that he
needs written the song. And do you know what your
(14:19):
thoughts are on that? What do you think on that
idea that people think both her lyricism and her relatability
have fallen off too much in this album? Well, I
mean I saw a tweet that said that, you know,
she'd sacrificed bops for lyrics on Poets, and then lyrics
for bops on this.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I mean it goes back to the thing that people
want what they don't have on each album and compare
it to the previous one and the one before that.
But everyone complained about Poets.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I was definding good album with my life. By the way, we.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
All know Joe's penn did not touch that album lyrically stunning.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yes, yes, okay, So getting into some of the songs,
We're going to start with some of the happier bops
at the top that very much I guess chronicle her
love story with Travis Kelce, which is opolite would of course,
and I guess also the Fate.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Of absolutely pulls her out of that like mad Hey darkness,
like she very much is comparing herself obviously to that
character of Ophelia, and of all people, Hamlet to Maddie Healley,
and who doesn't love that comparison. I'm sure he's having
a great time today, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Okay, So yeah, the album opens with the Fate of Ophelia,
which I read in my review, and I picks up
the thread from where Pollet's left off. She was drowning
in a sea of her own tears and her own
misery that was put there by a man who promised
to love her. Obviously it didn't work out, and then
Travis came along and rescued her from that fate of Ophelia.
(15:44):
Then what follows are several tracks that speak to her
really confident happiness. And I think we've had her talk
about being really happy and in love before, but there
was always some sort of reservation there. And I think
that's why this for a lot of Swifties has had
that inability to relate to Yeah, And I know where
(16:06):
they feel that they don't feel that confident in their love.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And like for me, these are like put them on,
dance around while you're cleaning the house, go out with
the girls, have a drink, have a dance like. They're
very fun pop songs. Now I don't relate to it.
I'm not happy and in love, but I'm still.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Having a good time exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think what's missing, like you said, is like I
compare this album a lot to Lover, and that's because
Lover was similarly quite a happy love album.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
There were a lot of songs on there.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That if they were released on Friday with this album
would also have been called like bad the way that
people are like this album sucks. They said the same
thing about Lover, but I think with Lover there was
a lot of anxiety right the love songs was.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Cornelia Street was already setting up for like I hope
I never lose you. Yeah, Like she's projecting that she's
going to on Lover she knows.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, whereas now she's like this guy saved me from
my sadness and isn't this fun? Let's do a dance.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, And it's not necessarily the most relatable for some people.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I did see.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
People saying online this made me cackle, but I do
think it's true. They were like they bought tickets to
Hairspray and then expected La misera.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, oh my god, isn't that so true?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Like she's made it clear this is an album of
bops and like an album about how obsessed she is
with her football playing fiance who she loves dearly, Like, yeah,
maybe we're not going to relate, but you can have
a boogie.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And I saw a lot of criticism too that it
kind of misunderstood Ophelia's story from Hamlet, and I was
a little bit like, but it's her. I don't think
she's trying to tell I don't think it's meant to
be a history lesson in that particular Shakespearean story. There's
been thousands of words written about Ophelia's plight and what
it means and how the men kind of wronged her
in that and everything. I think Taylor's a sort of
(17:36):
just kind of like cherry picking one little thread from
that story and putting it into her song, and that
feels okay. I don't think we need her whole story.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think tragic is when she said she was the
English teacher, they were like, she's going to explain the
plot of this play.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I might have to just read, like you might just
need to read something.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Doesn't everyone look for what they relate to in a character.
I mean, it's actually what Swifties look for and what
we're talking about now, what they relate to in her songs.
They cherry picked the bits that do. There are things
that I relate to weirdly. I relate to Father Figure,
but there's a lot of this album that I just
don't relate to and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I take away what I do.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, and I need to relate to every song in
the world. Sometimes I just want to bop. No.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I really love like there's something mesmerizing about that first
verse of Ophelia for me, Like something about Fortnite from
Torture Poets really like captured me. And I know it's
just because it was like it was a big song,
million like billions of streams, I believe, but like there's
something in the voice that's just so hypnotic to me
that like that song. When I started listening, I was like, oh,
like my eye was twitching. I was like, this album
is gonna be good.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah. I really the real tone and quality that she has.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And then it goes into Elizabeth Taylor, which also is
a bit like about Travis and like.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It's like he's the Richard Burton, She's the Elizabeth Taylor.
The amount of people in mine who have said I
just met out Elizabeth Taylor's a real person. I can't
deal with that. She hasn't been dead for that long
and she's one of the most famous Hollywood icons in
the entire world. Like I feel like she's this isn't
gonna become a history lessen Elizabeth Taylor. But I just
I could not believe this.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Also isn't the first time Taylor's reference to Elizabeth Taylor.
There was the reference on.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Rare and like, do we think she just likes saying
the name because she it's to say, she's like.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
That's a cool way to pick like one of the
biggest Hollywood icons ever and someone who's synonymous with glamour
but also being ripped part by the media, someone whose
love life has been dissected, someone whose mythology became bigger
than the person they are, Like, that's Elizabeth Taylor.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I saw people saying like, oh, she shouldn't compare
herself to her, she's an icon.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It's like, but I think they've had a lot of
similar shad Taylorsift can compare herself to Elizabeth Taylor and
that's not discrediting Elizae Taylor's legacy. But no, she was
a worldwide superstar and if you don't agree that, Taylor
Swift is also a worldwide superstar, so I feel like
that's okay. And I think the line like be my
n y when Hollywood hates me, that is like what
makes it so tailor swift to me because she has
famously escaped to her New York penthouse when the world
(19:50):
has hated her, and like.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I think that's really cool, and constantly uses New York
as a symbol for the right man.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yes, yeah, and speaking of the right man, we'll have
to talk briefly. That would because that's another song that
a lot of the critics got a bit touchy about,
saying that it was superstition. It was too Yeah, I know,
it's that supersition of black cats and nothing else, but
that was also something that critics were saying was a
bit cheap and just wasn't up to her usual lyrical standards.
I think the thing with that, first of all, not
(20:19):
happy about that looked.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
When I first heard it, I was cackling because I
was like, why am I hearing about Travis Kelsey's penis?
It'd also be Jackson five. But then I thought why not?
Because I have a great time listening to that song,
and also the first lines of that song are Daisy's
bare naked. I was distraught, he loves me not? He
loves me not? What a great way to talk about
picking flowers off a daisy and saying whether he loves.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Me or not. So lyricism is not dead is here
to save us with poetry about penises. Actually, I think
it's a really fun song.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And she's spent years with Sabrina and her friend who's
writing all of these fun, catchy, silly songs about like
having sex.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Is it a bit cringe? Sure? But I still had fun?
Or do you think she that was modeled off Sabrina,
which again is what people are saying.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Not necessarily modeled, because I don't think that she needs that.
But I think she's like, I'm in my mid thirties.
I can write about having good sex if I want to.
She did it with Guilty as Sin on Tortured Poets,
and I think now that she's doing a fun, poppy album,
she was like, actually, what don't I have a bit
of fun with it?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Like every other pop girl that there is.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, exactly, And if she wants to go from I
don't know the smallest man who ever lived to Travis
and he's Redwood and sing about it.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Oh wait to stop her.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You know what I do love is that there was
an Ariana Grande fan who tweeted a really long time
ago about Taylor Swift and they were like, I guarantee
you and Taylor Swift writ's about sex.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
She's gonna be like his Redwood sap for ok Forest.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I actually think the Redwood line in Wood is
her acknowledging because she has proven with this album. She
might pretend she's not online, she has proven with this
album that she's very chronically online and sees everything we
all say.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Which I think we always want, which we well.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, but she's referenced and she's referenced a lot in
other lyrics. So I do actually thin because people on
Twitter went, oh my god, she actually did how embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
No, No, she's in on the joke and she's she's.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Just making fun of herself that you would think that
that's what she'd say, So she's gonna say it and
it's funny and it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I do actually really enjoy that. So well, this is
the woman that used to like track her fans so
she knew he would invite to events and things. It's
quite nice that she's so in the weeds of what
her fans are saying and not just concentrating on what
critics are saying. What are people who are giving awards
are doing. Moving on to one of the other songs
that has really fired up a lot of conversation, Actually Romantic.
(22:28):
So there was that moment on New Heights where she
said actually romantic and Jason Kelsey was like, I know what,
that's a belt. But I think we now know it's
not about Travis Kelsey. It's about who do we think
it's about.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
It's not about Travis, It's about Charlie.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's about Charlie X.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And you're explaining to people who are not across the discourse,
which might be a lot of people. I mean, you know,
we live and breathe this well, but I think a
lot of people are just like, what's happening between her?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I will say at the top of this, I am
a fan of Charlie. I'm a fan of I think
we all are. I really loved the song Sympathy is
a nice If you don't know, it's a song that
Charlie releases part of her album bra It is a
song where she speaks about another woman being in her
space because they're dating two friends, and she speaks about
how she wants all this sympathy, but she's also getting
(23:12):
all this sympathy because she can't compete with this woman.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
This woman is.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
She says like, I'm opposite, I'm on the other side,
that this girl is like everything that she's not, and
that she feels inferior to her and that she feels inadequate.
And when charlie'spoken about the song, she's been like, it's
very much a narrative of like the stories I tell myself,
the self doubt that I have, the way that I
feel when I see this person, and how bad they
make me feel about myself, And the undercurrent of the
song is I hope she breaks up with him because
(23:36):
I don't want to have to hang out with her.
I don't want to share the space with her because
she makes me feel like shit just by simply existing.
That song is very widely believed to be and it
is about Taylor Swift. When Taylor was dating Maddie Healy
and Charlie XX was dating George Daniel, both of the
nineteen seventy five Charlie and GEORGEA now married, it was
like a long time kind of coming that Taylor and
(23:57):
Maddie would date publicly, long term, ten year situationship For
anyone who doesn't know he's the muse of Tortured Poets Department.
But when they broke up after that, some things started
to happen that maybe made it clear that I.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Don't know, maybe there wasn't friendship so much between Charlie
and Taylor.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Then Charlie releases Sympathy as and I've seemingly things are
fine because Taylor's dancing to Charlie's album at the Grammys
with Margaret Qually. They're having a great time.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
And we all just think, like, you know what, it's
over and done, and it's not.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
No, no, it's not.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Because now we have the song actually Romantic. Do you
want to go into what the vibe of actually Romantic is?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I mean, I think what's really interesting here is seeing
all this discourse about it and seeing people jump up
and down and really feel the need to stand up
for Charlie and.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Like she's like, like she needs help.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I mean, I think if anyone is not going to
be bothered too much by this and also can stand
up for herself, it's Charlie. I find that really strange.
I also find it really strange that people are taking
Taylor's song and thinking that the only reference point is
Charlie's song.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, because it's absolutely it's.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Not absolutely not And they're saying, oh, Charlie wrote this
quite whist full song about family, beautiful song it is,
and saying, you know, I'm so overwhelmed by your success
that it makes me feel bad about myself and that's
quite a nice thing to say.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Really. Yeah, but it's not a standalone. It's not a.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Standalone and these people have private lives, and people gossip,
and the industry is small, and so little bits of
information have filtered back to Taylor, which is which is
from the lyrics liked you called me boring Barbie. That's
not on the song, so she's heard that elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, And there is a tweet circulating there is that
shows Maddie Heay in like June of twenty twenty three
talking about going to dinner with Charlie, and Charlie also
talked about it. They both posted into the stories and
on his to do list discussion for the evening is
to talk about his breakup with Margot Robbie famously didn't
date Margot Robbie, but who else would be a Barbie
at that summer of Barbie and Erra's tour where Taylor
(26:04):
Swift and so if she's hearing that like as well,
sorry contact spillers. Taylor did bring Chars onto the nineteen
eighty nine and reputation tours. They have professionally worked together,
They've been friendly in the industry, seemingly been friends.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I assume Taylor and has given her that platform, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Assume that they hung out when they were dating band members.
Otherwise we're with the song have come from. So in
Taylor's perception, probably like, oh, okay, we were friendly, they've
broken up.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
She hears all this gossip.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Then Charlie releases a public song that's very seemingly like
nice about her.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
But is still out of the blue.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I can understand why for Taylor that has all read
and there's all this personal stuff we don't know about.
I'm very interested in who the leak is because they
cross circles a lot. Yeah, like Gracie Abrams, Margaret Cowley,
Sabrina Carpenter, Jack Antonoff. There are so many people in
Taylor's circle who are crossing parths.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
With charlie circle as well.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
But I do think it's a little bit strange that
people are like, oh, poor Charlie she did nothing wrong.
She just released this nice song, and Taylor's bullying her, Like,
I think there's more at play here.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I also think we don't care when rappers beef. We
have a great time.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
We don't care when other artists beef for some reason.
It's like this narrative of these two songs, which once
you make me so insecure about myself Taylor's song is
that's funny. I never think of you at all. Yeah,
it's very cutting and very silly and petty, but it
is that's the vibe. These songs are not actually being
really vicious about each other. They're just being two pop
girls singing songs. Yeah, and on the vicious thing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
It's kind of interesting because I saw a lot of
criticism of people saying that she should be above this.
Now she's clearly the more powerful one, she's the richer one,
she's the more successful one than anyone, and so it's
embarrassing for her to be bringing up all of these
like smaller like grievances and things that she has. But
I actually think that's super honest because I think we
would all know, like not that any of us would
know what it's like to be Taylor Swift, But I
(27:48):
think you would know that, like, no matter how successful
you are and how loved you are, those little kind
of whether they're imagined or real, like slights from someone
or something it was a friend or a professional person,
Like they're the things that keep you up at night. Yeah,
They're the things that like pull in your chair. I've
had days where like our podcast is going crazy and
artic crime writing is going viral, and like I'm getting
all this love across social and all this love at work,
(28:10):
and then I'll be thinking of something that like a
former colleague said to someone else that I know they said,
and like that, and that just eats away at you. Yeah,
and it eats away at all the good too.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, And I feel like that it's weird of us
to think that Taylor Swift would be above that when
she is just a human. And also if she doesn't
write about that, then people are saying she's too unrelatable
if she only writes about being a billionaire, So now
she's writing about the most human thing you can experience,
and then we don't like that either. And just let
the girl have a even if it's a petty beef.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Just let her have it exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And I think that that is really what was going
on behind the Girls tour. You know, she had that
breakup with Maddie during the Eras tour, So what she
was talking about, what she was texting her friends about
and having conversations with And you know, she had friends
like Sabrina opening for her, you know, and Gracie and
the heim sisters. They're her real friends. So when she's
(28:58):
sitting backstage in her dressing room with her friends talking,
this is the stuff they would have been talking about exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, And I think it's like I guess for me,
I was a little bit like, oh no, Like I
think any Taylor Swift and knows what it was like
when we were in that reputation era and people just
hated Taylor and felt the need to tell you that
every five seconds.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I just hated an artist and felt the need to
point it out. But that was how people behaved.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
And I just like, as soon as she did this,
and I saw it start to pick up online, like
you said, where they're like, how dare she like actually
speak out about this? She should have done this, I
was like, oh, she should have turned on my own
because she was looking pretty good at the Grammys when
she was dancing to Charlie and not taking the bait.
But I do think it's very human and it is
very Taylor swift to go and another thing like to go.
You know what, I'm not gonna just let the public
(29:45):
perception be that all this girl did was write a
nice song about me, because in Taylor's mind, that's not
what happened, and she doesn't want that to be the thing.
And all I'll say is Charlie XCX herself tweeted that
she hates boring pop stars, and she said she loves
mess and everyone needs to take things a bit less seriously,
because she said in exclamation points, nothing matters. This was
obviously before the song, but that was her own thing.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Does this really matter? I don't think it does.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Like I will have playlists this summer where Brat and
The Life of a Show GOL sit on the same
playlist and I can enjoy both.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And I think, I guess what I think if you
ever move like the way this was dominating my feed
this weekend was I genuinely was like, Oh, you guys
have done something evil to each other.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You would think like if you take all of it away.
It's a funny song. You don't have to like it.
You can think it's a cringe song, but it's funny
as well, to be.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Like, you're like a tiny chihuahua bar Yeah, and I
don't think about you ever and I hate you, but
also I've written a whole song about you that's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, and that was such a specific callback to the
early two thousands. Yeah, we loved that. She's just so malonnial,
like really honestly, it is just like so Houswive, so
Paris and Nicole Coder so like vintage silly banger. I
like it.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Same bottom line is the low road can be funny.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
The low road can be funny. And which is going
to get the segue in us into the other song
that is making a lot of different headlines, which is Canceled,
BREDI you want to take us through the context of cancer, Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Canceled is interesting, and I think people were questioning whether
there would be a song on this album that referenced
her famous friendships and ones that people have speculated in
recent times may not be going so well. Names that
came up were obviously Blake Lively is the main name
that has come up. You know, there's been her friendship
(31:30):
with Brittany Mahomes as well. We definitely get a reference
to Sophie Turner in this song, which I think is
really fun and I'm so here for it. But Canceled
ultimately is Taylor talking about her friends that have been
canceled for whatever reason in the media. It's something that
Taylor is an expert in being canceled. She's done the
(31:51):
whole album about it, She's talked about it a lot,
and so because of that, she's kind of become the
hairtaker amongst her friends, but also amongst industry people you
know that reach out to her when it happens to
them to say, well, how did you weather this storm?
How did you survive it? And because she's been through it,
and this is what this song is about, she's not
(32:13):
quick to judge people, and she knows that you do
actually come out the other side.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Generally, I think what's interesting is people this is probably
what you're referencing. People have been calling the song tone
deaf because they're like, why is she thinking about being canceled?
Like cancelations like really serious? And there's people who have
done awful things. The people she's referencing, like Sophie Turner,
Blake Lively, and like a little bit Selena Gomez as well,
is like what they're being canceled for. I mean, I
don't know how the Spillers feel about Blake Lively, but
(32:40):
like what they're being what they're feeling canceled for in
the case of Sophie Turner, etcetera, is not they didn't
commit a fence.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
The way that we're talking to Sophie Turner Lyeric we're
talking about is like did they catch you having too
much fun? Which is the accusation against Sophie at the
time that she was she was a.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Part and out having dinner with Taylor out of the city.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, but it was like, you know, she's divorcing from
drog And the reason that I made that connection was
that she does in the introduction to the song say
that like, because this is her experience and her history,
she now known as the person other women in Hollywood
call when they feel like they've been canceled, And like
Sophie and Taylor were friendlee while she was married to
Joe Jonas, but like it sounds very much like she
called Taylor up and went, this is what's happening.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I need a place.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Taylor gave her her place in New York City this day.
She took her out to dinner. She made sure that
paparazzi saw them, that people knew she was aligned with
her and throwing her support behind her, because she knows
what it feels like when you get those headlines that
are like she's a party girl, she's the worst. She
left Joe high and dry, so like there is that connection.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And how isolating it is, which I think you know,
Taylor has talked about a lot, and that was her
experience with reputation and that she felt like she had
to hide. So the wisdom that she's imparting to her
friends is don't hide because it didn't serve her well.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
The Easter eggs I found interesting for Blake is that
like none of us noticed that the jewelry Taylor is
wearing some of the Life of a Show golf photo
shoots is Blake's stewelry.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, which is huge, And that's been the story. I mean,
we've talked about heapshlon and still that it looked to
the naked eye, to the outsiders that their friendship is
completely over and that's probably the biggest sign we've had
that that is.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Actually and I think it's interesting because this album was
recorded last year, before things with the lawsuit had really escalated.
But I also think if she didn't feel that way currently,
she wouldn't have a song, or she wouldn't be wearing
the jewelry and the photo shoots because the photo shoots
were not last year, you know. And so she's wearing
a bracelet that Blake wa to the It Ends with
Us premiere in one of the pictures, which is the
(34:30):
picture on Spotify when you.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Press play on the song.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
It was like a custom piece, a customer piece for
the It Ends with Us premiere. She's wearing the Gucci
earrings that Blake water one of the met galas, so
like Gucci.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Is also referenced in the song.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yes, and she says like, you know, poisoned thorny flowers,
obviously referencing like all the floral stuff. I think one
of the most interesting lines is when she's like tone
deaf and hot, let's off her, because that was the
whole thing with Blake, right, like the whole.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Campaign being And there's so many in the song.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
There's a lot of Blake in this song, and it's her,
but there's so many references and lyrics in this song
that point to the exact things that were happening. Of
like she's tone deaf, let's off her. That was very
much the vibe was that Blake was tone deaf and
hot and she was annoying. Suddenly, when previously people had
been like, she's so funny and we love her hair,
suddenly was I hate that girl and she is bad hair. Also,
I think interesting to note because Taylor, when she does
(35:19):
name drop a designer, she's not associated with any designers.
So when she does name drop a designer, it's.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
For a reason.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
She wore a lot of Gucci during the reputation era,
and in particular one of the outfits that she wore
in the Look What You Made Me Do video, but
also on stage for that era. So it's just those
parallels that we always see Taylor.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
She's roasting a time when she was canceled. That's so
interesting because people read that in a very top level
way of saying like she's dropping designers because she wants
to show she's rich, which I didn't think. But I
think when there's so much critique around an album, You're
going to have so many different layers that people aren't
picking up on. So that's an interesting one.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
We don't think it's a surprise she's rich.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I mean, yeah, what a shocking, What a shock when
he tells millions and millions of records, has a lot
of money and can buy Gucci.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, it's interesting. That's coming back to a time when
she was feeling her most canceled. The other song that
people think there's a famous name connected to, and this
was the more tenuous one for me. So love you
guys to jump into this is father Figure and the
potential link to Olivia Rodrigo. Wait, is Father Figure a
divisive You both just know what you're talking about. Yes,
we know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
We've talked about this song a lot, and Tina was
the first to read my review, which she read before.
As we talked about earlier, Tina had to upload my review. Yes,
so she read that before she listened to the album,
and the one note that she sent to me was,
oh my god, is this Olivia Shay pick it up?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Just from that, I was scared. I was like, no,
what's that happened?
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Look, this one is really divisive and it's funny, and
it is one that I have had comments from fans
and non fans, well, non Taylor fans. I've had comments
from Olivia fans saying that I'm wrong about this being
about Olivia.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
I don't think I am.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I'm okay to be wrong though as well, like it
is fine if I am, but to me, I do believe.
And with the use of the George Michael song and
the way that Taylor has really labored the topic of
how she sought full permission to use this song, which
(37:27):
for spillers that don't know, there is a whole backstory
with Taylor and Olivia who Taylor took her under her wing.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Olivia used two of Taylor's.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Songs without permission or without seeking the correct permission for it,
and then had to backtrack, and Taylor and Jack's names
were put on writing credits in retrospect, and we have
not seen those two publicly in publicly interact ever since.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
And there were rumors that Olivia's song Vampire was about Taylor,
like people think there was a connection there.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah, yeah, that is true.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
So the other thing that people have said to me
about it is, oh, well, like father figure that's male's son.
The father son relationship. Typically, fans referred to Olivia and
Taylor as mother and daughter. To Tay daughter, you know,
it's a thing. Not everything has to be literal, yes,
And I think that this is really fun to spin
(38:21):
it and have it as a father and son. I
also think Taylor has used the metaphor of when she
takes these people under her wing, and you know, Gracie Sabrina,
you know, she does see herself as kind of a
caretaker of these new ones coming through because she has
sat at all those tables with all those executive men,
(38:41):
and she has had to prove time and time again
that she can stand up to them and has had to.
So I think to cast herself in that light in
this relationship, to me makes sense.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah, And I mean I also read it obviously like
you're saying of the stuff that she had to deal
with Scott Borschheer and Scooter Braun, because she talks obviously
about like the deals and the shadiness and the things
that were going on behind the scenes. But obviously I
think that's just informed it. And when this album came out,
she had kind of said a bit of Night teen
eighty nine beats with folklore storytelling, and that really upset
(39:15):
people when the album came out and they heard it
because they went, you were wrong, that's not what this is.
But with Father Figure and a few other songs, I'm like, no,
she is doing this narrative storytelling because look at all
the discussions we're having about Father Figure, about canceled, about
these songs and going, wait, who is this about?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Who related?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
What part is she playing in this song because it's
very clear at first to some people that it's about
Scott and Scooter, but maybe it's not because there is
a key change, and then she starts talking about how
she's the Father Figure, So it's like it's total to
be her own interpretations as well of how she can
lead women in the industry. That doesn't mean that it's
all positive her interactions, right, She's clearly referencing some stuff
(39:50):
that went down that maybe, or at least we think
she might be referencing some of the stuff that went
down with Olivia along with the things that she herself experienced.
But also that then she does want to do a
better job of guiding people like Sabrina and Gracie, those
other artists so.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It's a it's a complicated well, I guess it wouldn't
be a passage album if it wasn't layered and like
full of bops but also questions and all those things
that we us new swifties are really getting into.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
But I think this is an album non Sifties who
just like a bop will enjoy, Like people will enjoy
this album and not need to.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Care No, and like you don't need to know these backstories.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
It's fun. It's hard being a.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Swift It's the Easter eggs, It's you know, what we
talk about. You know, it's what swifties talk about online,
It's what we talk about with our friends. Yeah, but
you can still enjoy the music without knowing all of this.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
But there's there's a couple of songs I have major
beef with on this album.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
But like as we finish up now, like your favorite favorite,
but you can also say the ones you have beef
with quickly do you a quick? So quick one?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Track five is normally the song that is like emotionally fraught,
really like powerful, like not always, but very often, the
track five of a Taylor Swift album is the big
hitter emotionally so this one was called Elder's Daughter, and
everyone was bracing for it because they were like, oh, like,
it's going to be really sad, it's going to be
this nap. I know so many people who listen to
this song. I think Breeze one of them who really
love it and who felt it or like at least
(41:10):
really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I skipped that.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Song the first four times I heard it, and I
skipped it at the exact same point, and it is
when she says that eldest daughters are like lambs raised
for slaughter, and then they put on their outfits and
they look fire.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
And I was like, I've had enough of you, Taylor's
I love that. That's a bit of a personal issue.
What it might just be the middle child in me, But.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
You sit, I'm a middle child, and I think I've
had it with eldest daughter, and how every eldest daughter.
I'm pretty sure there's too right here? Possibly are you
I'm a middle child?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
An No? Okay, no? Did you skip it to because
I was like, I've had it with the eldest daughters.
Imagine the middle forgotten child? Also, can you be an
eldest daughter if you're the only daughter is my thing
about Taylor Swift.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
I think you can.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
There was a lot of discourse, you're the only girl,
who are you committing?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
And I am in a bridge of the song now
that I eventually made it, but I still still don't
like the song.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
But that's fine.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I am an eldest daughter and now well I wanted
to be No, that's the.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Thing I have to say. I really like the song.
I don't love it. I do love the lamb to
the slaughter part.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
That is actually my favorite part.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Yes, and I.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Do relate to being an eldest daughter. As I say,
I always look for the song that I relate to
the most.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
This I thought would be it.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Hands down. I thought it would be it.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
I've also had the most elder s daughter year of
my life.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Which I'm not going to go into right now.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
But I was expecting this to be a real gut
punch for me, like we know track five songs are.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
This wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
And I don't want to blame this, but I really
would have loved to have seen this in the hands
of Aaron Dezna instead of Smart and yeah, look.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
My other skip is wish List. I don't care for that.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
That's my least favorite too, and Taylor says it's her favorite,
and maybe.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Where maybe we're wrong. I just don't care. Maybe we're
just not happy enough. I mean, what are your favorite
what you've been yelling along to?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I love the drama of Elizabeth Taylor, I love favor
I love a lot of these songs. The one for
me is Opolite. I'm rebranding it as a Christmas song
because of the and the bells, like it is giving Christmas,
and all these people hate it and I'm just like
bopping along in my living room song. And it's Travis
Kelsey's two so maybe it's me and him too.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Bees in a podcas and Kelsey had the same tasty music.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
And as Graham Norton's favorite too, So we're in your company,
Graham and Travis. A little quotette, what's your favorite? So
my absolute favorite is Father Figure. I have listened to
it on repeat so much good. I actually really do
relate to it.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
That's weird. And I also love.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
The Life of a Show Girl with Sabrina. I think
it is so much fun. I love the storytelling on
this and I think that it goes back to that,
you know, classic storytelling that Taylor does that we saw
in Love Story, that we saw in you know, the
Greater Maria Dynasty, and a lot of the songs that
also had that show girl theming back in the day,
you know, like the Lucky One on Red and some
(44:20):
of those earlier. Yeah, real storytelling. It's a story that
she has lived, and I don't think anyone is sort
of better equipped today as a pop star to talk
about what it means to be a pop star now,
and then Sabrina speaks about it from that sort of.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Up and comer perspective.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah. Well, thank you Tina and Brief for those very
in depth critiques and for sharing all your thoughts on
this album as anything with Taylor Allison Swift. So much
to say. But we also link Breeze review in the
show notes so you can read a more in depth
story there. But yeah, just happy to have you both
here and thank you so much for listening to The Spill.
Stay as always. If you're more behind the scenes more
about the Spill, you can follow us on Instagram at
(45:01):
The Spill Podcast and we will see you back here
in your feed tomorrow at eight am for morning tea.
Bye bye bye Halla loll it ll it,
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