December 20, 2025 • 41 mins
Spillers, this is an exciting new drop from our sister podcast Watch Party! To hear the rest of our Emily In Paris series, make sure you're following the Watch Party feed on Apple or Spotify.
In this episode, you'll learn about:
Italian Culture & Fashion:
We explore the clash of cultures, from dining customs to flirting norms, and the ways Italian fashion and cinema-inspired styling reflect Emily’s emotional journey.
Friendships, Romance & Girl Code:
Yep, it’s time to talk about Mindy and Alfie’s tricky dynamic… we unpack the ethical grey area of dating your friend’s ex and the unspoken social rules of friendship.
Emily’s Evolution & Season 5 Stakes:
We dive into how Emily is growing as a professional and as a person - including the moments that hint at what the rest of the season may hold.
It’s everything you need to know about Emily’s Italian chapter… the friendships, the drama, and the fashion — before you binge the rest of Season 5.
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CREDITS
Hosts: Monisha Iswaran, Tina Burke & Chelsea Hui
Executive Producers: Georgie Page & Monisha Iswaran
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Video Editor: Michael Kean
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Amma mea podcast Help Help You.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
From Mamma Mia.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to The Spills watch Party, where we unpacked the
biggest shows that the entire world is talking about. My
name is mansiaus Warren. I'm the executive producer of Mamma
MIA's entertainment podcast, The Spill, as well as this podcast
watch Party, and today we are talking about one of
my absolute favorite shows of all time, Emily in Paris,
and I'm joined by two fellow super fans who love
(00:40):
Emily as much as I do.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I am Tina Burke. I am Mama MEAs pop culture
and social editor. I am obsessed with all things entertainment
and Hollywood, and I love a girl called Emily Cooper
and anything made by Darren Starr. So I'm very excited
to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And I'm Chelsea ware Mom and MIA's entertainment producer, and
like Tina, i am a fiend for anything pop culture related.
But I'm also a fashion girlie and I'm a frequent
co host on the Nothing to Wear podcast, and Emily
Paris is really my two worlds colliding, so it's one
of my favorite shows.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So the three of us are epic fangirls of this show,
and we have been spending our time binging this season
so we can get all across it to bring you
our thoughts, feelings and deep dives.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And in this.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Episode, we are going to be covering everything that happens
in the first four episodes, so there will be spoilers
if you haven't watched the first four, but we won't
go beyond that, so you're totally safe if you're only
up to ep four.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So we're going to dive.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Into everything from Emily's Italian adventure and how really different
it feels to her og Paris life, as well as
some very controversial relationships that are definitely crossing lines this season.
So we sort of start this season off seeing her
(01:51):
in Rome. She's starting her life there, she's trying to
get Agent Scratcho's Italian leg off the ground. And one
thing that really stood out to me is that in
season one she's obviously living that expat life as an
American in Paris, and we see all these cultural comparisons
drawn between American culture and French culture, and now we
sort of have this third element into the mix, so
it's the Italians via the French, the Americans, her French
(02:13):
colleagues who come over have a lot to say about
the Italians. Did that really stand out to you guys
in terms of I felt this real rivalry between the
French and the Italians in these first few episodes.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I mean I was expecting it going in, considering there
was like geopolitical discourse about like Emily in Paris moving
to Rome. It was a very big deal. But yeah,
there was definitely like a vibe shift because where in
Paris everything was like that little bit more like chic
and elevated and exclusionary. In Italy it had its own
thing going on.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I also think the fish out of water and like
cultural clash is part of the reason we love the show,
and it's like a real pillar of the show, and
a lot of the humor and the conflict that we
see really derived from that Emily's culture clash in Paris,
and I think we needed a new chapter, a new place,
a new experience, and that was Rome.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think it really took it back to that season
one vibe in that way of like everything's new, she
doesn't know anything she knows I mean, not that she
knows much French, but she knows absolutely no Italian. Yeah,
so it really reminded me of the lens through which
we saw France in Season one, and there were just
a bunch of times where that came up, and it
was really stark in terms of how the French few
Italians in the workplace. And one of the first times
(03:20):
was when Emily was with Marchello's family and she's trying
to really push discussing business ideas because obviously they acquired
the Moratory account and she's in the kitchen march Hello's
mum is making risotto, and she just goes, we don't
discuss business at dinner, and it's a full put down
of like And I think that's really evident in terms
of how different Americans are to Europeans, and something that
(03:41):
I think Emily has also encountered in France, because they
just don't mix business and pleasure as much as Americans
do in that kind of setting.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Can I do anything to help?
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Oh, nothing left to do now but stir.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
It smells delicious, Antonia. Can I talk to you about
a few ideas that I have, not.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
What I'm making risotto?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
No problem, I'll talk to your dinner.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We don't discuss business and dinner another time, relax, enjoy.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yeah. She kind of keeps learning these lessons over the
time that she's in Italy, and it's like she just
spent all that time learning how to do it in Paris,
and now they're like, here's a new challenge. She learns
all of these things you don't discuss at dinner, yes,
can me No, Like she kind of has that moment
of realization where she's like, I'm not working in Rome.
I've lost my touch. I don't know what I'm doing.
And it's because she doesn't know how business works here.
She's not used to it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But she honestly reads some xpact guys, because I looked
this up and it was telling me all these things.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
It was like, so, you know, when you're doing business
in Italy, it's good to stay on non commercial topics
in an.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Eating setting, and non commercial topics in marketing or just
while you're eating.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, I think it's your boyfriend's mom, okay could.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I think it's particularly hard for Emily though, because she
we know notoriously she mixes business and pleasure, So how
do you suffer it the two?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And she's been like waiting for this meeting for ages
and suddenly they have the meeting and it's like, actually,
you can't talk about the meeting now because we're serving foods,
all right, and we ruined your shoes.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, that's trouble hunting. Thing was ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
It's like what you mentioned there about how Emily has
gotten used to the fact that Italians start things off
with a yes and it's a little bit noncommittal. I
thought that scene was really interesting when she's unpacking that
with her French colleagues and they're like, oh, in France,
we start a conversation with a no, because then you
can only like you're not committed to anything, whereas in
Italy they start everything with see or yes in a
(05:28):
business setting. And I was reading up a little bit
on that, and apparently that is the case, that it's
a very noncommittal yes in a business sense.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's sort of an umbrella yes and we'll see where
we go from here. Well that went, well, nope, it didn't.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
She said, See, I mean sure, it wasn't an idea
for Paris.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
When Italians say yes, they don't always mean it. They
value politeness, they don't want to offense, so they say
yes even if they don't agree. Ah, Like how the
French always start everything with a no.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
No, we don't.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
At least answering not give you the option of later
saying yes.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
You start with yes, then you're stuck.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
Not in Italy, they just take it back later.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Do you think Fandy will ever give us another chance?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
That's so.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, It's interesting how across cultures there are those little
nuances that you really would only know once you've lived
there and understand the contacts, or it reminds you of
like in Australia when we say like yeah, yeah, yeah,
we all know what that means. Yeah, but I can
imagine for a foreigner you would have no idea what
those little intricacies are.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
When I moved here from Singapore almost ten years ago,
I was very confused by the yenna nah yeah culture.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And I was just told the second one is there.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
The one you pay attend.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
That's what you go with, Yeah, no as a no
nah yeah is a yes.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, it makes so much sense. Yeah, that's good advice.
The second one you pay attention to. Emily needed something
like that. You're right, she needed like a little guide
book business for Americans in Italy.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, I thought another thing that was interesting is we
see Princess Jane the new character, who is what an addition,
I know Sylvie's friend who is married into royalty, lives
in Rome.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Broke now get money. Yeah, and there was an interesting
scene where she met Sylvie and Sylvie's little affair man
and he pretended to the crowns. Was like, the man
that she married wasn't even considered really royal, but thats
key someone who had claimed he was but didn't have
a current claim to the title. So it's like that's
why they're broke and living in a castle that they
(07:24):
rent out as an airbab. But that was played by
Mini Driver obviously, and she was so much fun in
the role.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
She is a heap of fun.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I guess the same way some men lie about their heights,
some lie about their royal status.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Some lie about their royal status. Yes, she was hoodwinked,
but she added so much to the Italian journey, especially
for their careers this season with the booking and the
fee is what killed me. Every time that she offered
to do something yeah, yeah, like I can send you
up with FEddi for a fee.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I guess that is maybe how consulting were I don't
know if I don't know how much she was bringing
to the company. She also said something interesting about her
time in Italy. She said, no one spoke to me
in three years, and I'm royalty. And I did read
a little bit about how social life in Rome. It
does seem on the surface very friendly, and you know,
if you're in a bar or a cafe, people do
tend to talk to you. But I was having a
(08:07):
little read on like expat experiences in Rome, and it
is apparently quite difficult to break into the social fabric.
It has that almost small towny feel, but in a
big city where once you're not in the fold and
you come in as a foreigner, it's quite difficult to
work your way in and almost impossible, some people have said,
to actually break into a fold that isn't just other expats.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So I thought her saying that was a little bit
of a reflection on that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's so interesting because Emily kind of obviously when she
moved to Paris, we saw her trying to establish all
kinds of connections, but she wasn't trying to in Rome,
with the exception of business, so like we only saw
it through the work lens. She wasn't trying to make
friends because she has her friends and she just ships
them over to Rome with her. She had a friend,
like she was fine, she shipped her whole company over
(08:50):
with her. So like the only way we were able
to explore that dynamic was through her career. So it
was really interesting that our princess played by Mini Driver
was offering that lens of like it's really exclusive, you
need someone on the inside to help you. That would
be so stressful. I felt like I was at agent's grotto,
Like I felt like I was there trying to start
at my I was really stressed.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I was, like, guys, there wasn't a lot of planning
in this whole movie. You just sort of got an office.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
As well, like them moving everything over and no one
is left in the Paris.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
They're just on zoom. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I know, especially for someone like Sylvie. I know that
she's a bit I'm going for a smoke in the
middle of the day, it's the French way, but she's
also so business minded and has such a stake and
a love in her own business. It was just so
strange to see her be like and now I'm in
Rome and I guess no one's in Paris other than Genevieve.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, well she was very interested in staying in Rome
due to her Italian lover, but we can get to
that later. Gian Carlo I thought one other thing that
was interesting was Marcello at the party in the mansion
where he decides to pretty much flirt with every X
he's ever had, it seems, in these few episodes in
front of his new girlfriend. And he explained that away
as that's how Italians talk, which is very expressive. We
(09:58):
use our hands a lot, which obviously Italians are renowned
worldwide for being very expressive, very.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Passionate when they're speaking.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I sort of think you need to quite me quiet
that passionate when you're speaking to your ex girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
But what do you guys think the fact that we're
talking about multiple ex girlfriends as like the real red flag.
I can like understand in some cultures there's like a
physicality where there's like an unspoken language, Italian culture being
one of those. Well, yeah, they are very expressive, it's
very physical. But Emily, in a short period, in a week,
having to encounter two exes is bizarre.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
That is a red flag. I don't know that man
just gave me the ick all season long, Like in
these episodes, he was just he didn't seem to understand
much of what she was doing with him, like as
in like they go truffle hunting, he doesn't warn her
about the shoes they go hang out with all his exes.
He doesn't say anything till she feels noticeably uncomfortable and
tries to leave. He just was giving me the ick
in not understanding like that he was in a relationship
(10:49):
with somebody who's kind of a vibe of that whole
castle scene.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Also, his apology didn't really land because I'll pick you
up tomorrow, don't worry.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And then she's like, I'm sorry, yeah, projected I overreacted.
I'm like, nah, he was.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Like really flirting with his exod yeah, yeah, I think
you're allowed a little.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Yeah, And that's the current thing that we like, we
picked up on that as being something she did a
bit this season, and I wonder what the reasoning was,
because it felt strange that she apologized in that instance.
It's like, I don't really think you did anything wrong,
but it's like they're trying to make her character like
that bit more like likable Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So one of the brands that they acquire during their
time in Italy is called Intimacy. It's a lingerie brand,
and this spark's the whole thing for Emily because she's
trying to figure out how to sell lingerie agents. Gratto's
whole thing is we want to prove the French can
sell sex better than the Italians. This is such a
funny little arc because Emily always sort of struggles with
those things that are more on the sexy side to
deal with Intimacy, and I feel like it's a real
(11:41):
commentary from the Europeans that, you know, Americans are a
little bit more reserved because Europe's just known for being
a bit more out there and like embracing all of
that kind of stuff. And she definitely gets that feedback
from Luke and Julia that they obviously think she's a
bit of a quote unquote prude. We saw last season
when Gabrielle wanted to have sex on the roof and
she had a bit of a freak out. She was like,
I just want to be an event. So yeah, we
(12:03):
really see Emily struggle with coming up with the tagline there,
whether you know, to go full out or be a
little bit more reserved in how she markets it. What
did you guys think of her approach to selling intimacy.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, I think obviously she was called out for having
intimacy issues by her coworkers and has been called a
prude and everything, so I think she tried to go
the opposite direction and like really channeled like everything she's
learned in France about being sexy. She pitched something that
just wasn't seen as right for the actual Italian audience
versus like what she thought they would want, Like she
wanted to be like it's like better than naked, like
as in the Sexiest you can look as wearing lingerie
(12:37):
and like the princess was in the meeting with her
and she's like, it's just a bit confusing, Sweedie, Like
no one understands that. And she kind of learned that actually,
according to intimacy, Italians are more interested in like the
connection and the meaning, so she had to go away
and find that again. So I feel like she's learned
a lot about her, you know, Italian culture in her
very short time in Rome.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Now, while we're on the topic of sort of clothes
and garments and that kind of area. Chelse, You're a
real fashion girlie, and the fashion this season has been
a little bit different. Obviously she's in a different place,
the setting is different. A lot of it's giving Audrey
Hepburn Rome holiday callbacks. What can you tell us about
her Roman edition of fashion?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I mean, with a show like this where the fashion
is almost like a character in itself, so pivotal to
the show every season, I think we've seen a bit
of an evolution this season. Yes, we lean very heavily
into Italian fashion, and the costume designer, Marilyn Fittucci has
said that they're leaning into like glamorous black and white
Italian movies. They've taken a lot of inspo from like
(13:33):
old Hollywood stars, so like Sophia Loren, Silvana Mangano, Cudi Cardinali,
and like all these icons who have like real style
and a lot of personality. We see Emily even all
the promotional picks and in the first few episodes in
Rome in a lot of polka dots, which feels very
very Italian, and even in the press tour outfits. We
know that especially Lily Collins, being like the fashion icon
(13:53):
that she is, always slays a red carpet, but they
recently did like a photo call in Venice, so all
three ladies were wearing Italian designers Philippine Leroy, Bellu in Ferragamo,
Lily Collins and Scaparelli.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
She loves that brand.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
It's an Italian founded French oakuture House, Ashley Park and
Antonio Grimaldi. They're really leaning into Italian fashion brands this season,
both in the show and in real life. And yeah,
but shows like this, I find it always really interesting
that the fashion really reflects where Emily is, what state
of mind she's in, where she is, and the culture
(14:27):
she's kind of trying to assimilate into.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Did you have a favorite look of the first few episodes.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Oh, when they go to the Fendi shop, she's wearing
this like jumpsuit.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's like silky, and it's like geometric
tiles or like something's going on. It's like a kind
of like scarf print.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yes, yes, there's a real like interesting pattern on it. It
feels it's very Italian. And yeah, and she's so depressed,
but she looks so good.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Yeah, she's like sitting there like she's like I haven't
slept and she's got big sunglasses on, and she's like,
I think my boyfriend's going to break up. He's taking
you to buy a Fendi bag and you look great.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That might be the only moment in the first few
episodes where I'm like, okay.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
March alone, okay, all right? Ding himself with that one. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
We also see in that scene a little musical drop
in of this song which will be very familiar to
Sex and the City fans. What's that has got to
(15:39):
be Real by Cheryl Lynn And it's a very famous
song from Sex and the City. Famously you played in
season four when Carrie Bradshaw has her iconic runway fall,
and we see it here where Emily is taken by
Marcello to go and get a Fendi bag, which is
very Sex in the City coded, and I loved that
little Darren Starr call back there. So obviously we've only
seen up till episode four, and at the end of
(15:59):
episode four it's revealed that they're going back to Paris.
Do you think that is something that will be reflected
in the fashion one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
The costume designers have been very open about the fact
that where Emily is reflects in what she wears. Season
one and two, we saw so many bold colors. We
saw a lot of bucket hats, random prints. I think
episode one, when she shows up at Asano, she's literally
wearing like a Paris Eiffel Tower printed shirt. It's really bold,
it's a little bit obnoxious. And as the seasons have
(16:27):
progressed and she's become more Prisian, more French, her style
has reflected that and become a little bit more understated,
a little bit more luxurious.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I guess we have seen first from Emily because she
didn't show up in a T shirt with the coliseum
on it or something.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
That's progress.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So after the break, we are going to get stuck
into what I would say it's the juiciest plot line
that we were all kind of waiting for this season,
and I'm pretty sure most people feel the same.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
So we're going to be unpacking that next.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Okay, so we absolutely have to talk about the relationship
that we saw teased in the trailer and that we've
now seen come to fruition and I don't know how
to feel about it, which is Mindy and Alfie, Chelsea,
what can you tell us about what we've seen so far?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We saw this coming.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It was in the trailer Emily's off to Rome, which
leaves Mindy and Alfie in Paris alone, meeting up as friends.
They get dinner, sparks start flying, they're starting to flirt.
It's kind of entering that territory of maybe something romantic,
and it freaks Mindy.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Out a little bit. She's like, okay, like what is this?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
She goes off to Rome to visit Emily and she's
kind of texting with Alfie, and conveniently, Alfie also ends
up in Rome for work as it is in this show,
and she gets recruited for this strange Italian dance competition
show and she needs.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Help rehearsing, so why not call Alfi.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
They have a little in the same hotel, staying at
the same hotel, and.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Weirdly, his mother apparently made him take ballroom dancing lessons
growing up, so.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
They have a little dance.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Things are kind of heating up. They share a kiss,
and then things kind of snowball from there where they
kind of intermate with each other, hiding this from Emily
the entire time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And this is a real look at girl code, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
And whether or not Mindy's crossed the line here because
I don't know about you guys, but I think she
was one hundred percent across the line. I know she
did initially in one of the first episodes of the season,
try and sort of float with Emily like, oh, you
don't steal her feelings for Alfie, do you? And Emily
was like, nah, but that's a little bit different. You're
not giving context to why I ask him that question.
(18:32):
If I suddenly asked one of you guys, oh, do
you still have feelings for next You'd probably be like no,
and they'd be like, well, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Love with him.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
I'm not in love, but I'm dating it.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
We may feel a little bit differently.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I did a bit of a deep dive into girl
code because I wanted to clarify for myself before we
weigh in on whether or not she did break girl
code what exactly girl code is. And what I found
was that psychologists talk about unspoken social contracts, rules that
we don't write down, but we expect people close to
us to honor. And girl code is basically that a
lot of it's rooted in attachment theory, because a lot
(19:02):
of people see close female friendships as sort of emotional
safe havens in the case else of life. And one
thing I think that really defines whether or not you
have broken girl code is what level of friendship you
are at with that person. And with Mindy and Emily,
she is her ride or die in Paris. This is
not a casual friend. This is someone she met on
a park bench but turned into a lifelong bestie.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
They live together.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
She's been there through the chaos, the heartbreak, the career
highs and lows. I think the level of friendship really
matters here, which is why I strongly feel like she
has crossed the line.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Where do you guys sit with that?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, she crossed the line for me. I think starting
a relationship with Alfie is one thing, but the complete
lack of communication and the lying is where you get me.
Do I think that you could date a friend's X.
I wouldn't do it, but I think it depends on
how that friend feels about that relationship at that time
and whether they care or not. And Mindy never really
(19:56):
had that conversation with Emily, and they proceed to lie
for several episodes, which I think is the problem.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Completely agree with you, Chelsea, I think that's going to
be the biggest question on everyone's lips does this action
potentially break girl code? I had the chance to sit
down with Lily Collins and Ashley Park to talk about
season five of Emily in Paris, which was obviously so
exciting and there were so many things that we wanted
to talk to them about, but the biggest one, of
course had to be does this action break the girl code?
(20:23):
And here's what they had to say about that.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Well, I think, you know, there's a scene where Mindy
asks Emily, like, you're cool. You guys are all okay, right,
and it's like Emily genuinely is okay. It's like at
this point Alphie is less of an ex and more
of a coworker friend, like it's not an immediate ex,
and they have a respect for each other in a
work in the workplace now, and Emily's like, cool, They're cool.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
And so I think.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
It's all about the communication. Again, no spoilers, but their
communication between Mindy and Emily is what ultimately is the
most hurtful, not what happens.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
And so I think.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Everyone's going to have different boundaries in their relationships with
their friends. But I think what's key is making sure
that you speak with honesty, with truth, with empathy, and
with love and the communication.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
And I think both of these girls in particular have
been having different kinds of identity crisis. Is as we've
seen in five seasons. The one thing that has been
steadfast is that they're each other safe place and they're
each other's.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Kind of home.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
And I think that that's, you know, that's very It
shakes them to the core when they're not able to
be that for each other. And I actually, you know,
what I'll say in standby is that I think the
what's most realistic and genuine is not being perfect.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Right.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
It's something that we've talked about that we as women
and also in terms of female friendships, like to have
that pressure of being perfect or else it's not a
good thing, and not a great thing is.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Not great.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
So I think that it's really it to bring that
kind of realistic texture of like overcoming something together when
you felt like you had to be a part, I
think is kind of I'm really proud of.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
So I think obviously they gave like a really nuanced
answer to that question, kind of a two part answer
as well, which touches on I think a lot of
the feelings that all three of us really took away
from watching these scenes, but in particular the scenes of
the initial kiss and everything. What Lily has described is
what you touched on Chelsea, which is like, it's not
necessarily that Emily would still have feelings for Alphie. It's
(22:23):
not necessarily that she would have seen the idea of
them as a couple is something that would upset her.
But it's more about the fact that this has now
happened in secret, and any continuation of a lie, or
of miscommunication or of like not being super clear with
each other on where it's going, that would be the
problem in the friendship, and that's going to be the
thing that brings the tension. But I really loved what
Ashley had to say about Mindy, which is like, we're
(22:44):
talking about this in terms of the characters, right, Like
we're saying, as a friend, would it break girl code?
As a friend, would you be upset if someone did this?
And will obviously inevitably see that play out in the
coming episodes, But it's also really good to include these
kinds of mistakes that women make sometimes in their lives.
And that's the really interesting thing that Ashley touched on
and it's a big conversation that has happened previously around
(23:06):
like Carrie Bradhat or like Miranda and Samantha and the
mistakes that they make in Sex in the City, and
how women can be unlikable sometimes women can make mistakes sometimes,
and so it's a bit of a two parter, which
is really interesting. What do you think of that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I also love what Ashley said about seeing imperfect women
on screen and how that's really important. My only qualm
with that is I would love to see a little
bit more accountability from Mindy.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I agree women can be imperfect.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I'm a staunch supporter of Emily, Carrie, Miranda surmanth that
all these women who are imperfect, and as much as
the public love to criticize these women, I think it's
so important to see different kinds of women who make
mistakes and friendships they kind of break apart, and how
they come back together. But we haven't yet seen how
this is going to play out between Emily and Mindy.
But what was liking for me in those early days
of her getting together with Alfhi is her not having
(23:53):
a second thought about how Emily would feel about this
and kind of continuing this affair behind her back.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I think it was also interesting what they said. It
sort of echoes what we were talking about earlier that
girlhood and female friendships is considered a very safe space
a lot of people, and that is your little safe
corner in the.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Chaos of the world.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
And that is really what has rocked Emily to her core,
is that that little safe corner has now been imploded
with uncertainty and something that you didn't see coming. So
I do agree that probably the issue wasn't the act itself,
but the lack of communication and I guess feeling like
you've been blindsided. There's very few things in life probably
where if you were just sat down and it was
(24:33):
explained to you and the feelings were all talked out,
that you would be so shaken by It often is
about the lack of transparency or the fact that something
hasn't been warned or flagged with you beforehand, especially when
it was something where there is a lot of emotional
residue there.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, obviously we will see how this all plays out,
but obviously there would be there are many women in
the real world who will have experienced this in their
friendships and so it's great to show the different perspectives
on screen and for us to yet to explore this dynamic.
I have been on the record saying I didn't want
this to be how this relationship was explored, and I
stand by that. I would have for the Alphi and
(25:08):
Mindy thing to come about in a different way. And
that's just for me and how I choose to enjoy
this show and like what I want from it. I
still love all of these characters and I'm excited to
see what happens and where it goes. But I do
agree with you, Chelsea that I think maybe we needed
a bit more time to delve into this if we
wanted to go this route of showing this storyline, and
because the episodes, like because there's not that many of them,
it just felt like we really rushed into this thing
(25:29):
and it's got a bit more tension and not enough
time to show the thinking of what's going on with
Mindy and maybe the attention and detail and care that
could have been given to it. If we're going to
go into something that could maybe ruin a friendship and
how that would play out. Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I'm not a huge fan of the word they've done it,
but I'm hoping that Emily and Mindy will come out
of the stronger and that you know, by the end
of the season, we'll see the dynamic duo back together
and hopefully having some difficult conversations.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yeah, and on that Argentine and tango, because I was
a really big fan of that sort of arc seeing
Mindy have to learn this dance. I had a bit
of a rogue thought as to whether it's a metaphor
stay with me here doing the Argentine tango in private,
it's this sort of sexy secret when he picks her up,
it works so well, and then when that's taken public
(26:15):
on the dance competition stage, she falls flat on her face.
Is that a metaphor for when this relationship comes out,
comes to light and sees it. Yeah, and everyone finds
out that it's going to be an absolute flop and
not take off. And they maybe did quite a literal
metaphor which they liked to do in Emily in Paris
of her literally crashing and falling on her face.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Let's hope maybe I took it to a different play
like that.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Why not?
Speaker 6 (26:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
If it's a controversial opinion because famously last episode, I
was all for this.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love mixing up the different couples and seeing what happens,
and I also love those two characters individually. Yeah, I
personally wasn't really a fan of the chemistry. I felt, yeah,
casing maybe was wrong. We didn't have any build up
from the first episode them having dinner and the sparks
flying didn't feel organic to me.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Even the tango I felt, oh I had to close, yeah, cringing.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
So I'm shocked because I love these two actors. I
like these two characters, so you would think that putting
them together wouldn't make sense. And I think that's probably
what the producers were thinking when they did it.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yeah, I think I agree with you. I was all
for this and I was really excited about it. But
the fact that it feels kind of rushed into, Like
I think we could have done that first episode where
they go to dinner and she starts to realize that
there's a bit of a spark or something there. I
think we needed like a whole season's worth of build
up tension or pining or build up and actual conversations
with Emily or even just like a little bit more
(27:37):
of an attempt to discuss it with Emily or to
figure it out before diving headfirst into scandal and girl code,
and like friendship issues.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
As a viewer, I think with chemistry it is also
hard to get into it when you've already seen him
develop that arc with someone else who's a main character.
I draw comparison to Gossip Girl because I used to
find it really difficult how everyone would just swap within
the friendship circle. The Dan Nate, Serena Blair of it
all really got to me, and I think.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
That's just what you loved about it. You're like, really,
But I do think there was more time given to
it on that That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
There's so much emotional residue there with Alfie and Emily.
I don't even feel like there was proper closure. She
had tears in her eyes when she found out he
had a new girlfriend towards the end of last season.
So I just don't think there was enough time. And
much like Gossip Girl, this show, no one dates outside
the circle. Everyone has to just couple swapping in the circle.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It's a very incestuous friendship group.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
You're in Europe, there's other men get on hine, Emily
and Mindy and everyone.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
The time thing is important when it comes to Gossip Girl.
I also think all those pairings, when you really think
about it, they had chemistry.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
And they had established dynamics.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, even Dan and Blair, which really
came out of left field.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I hate that storyline.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
A line they had common interests, even though it wasn't
really explored earlier on. Once they were put together, it
kind of made sense. I wasn't necessarily rooting for them
to be together in the end, but I think that
little chapter was a lot of fun. I enjoyed watching them,
and you really felt the chemistry between these two people,
which personally is what I feel is lacking in Mindy
and Alfie.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
All Right, we spent a lot of time talking about
the other characters in this show, but after the break,
it's time to get back to our main girl, Emily
Cooper and what she's been up to this season. Okay,
so Emily has been on quite the journey in these
first four episodes. A lot has happened, and I think
we've seen a lot of character development in her go
through different things. She seems like a different Emily to
(29:29):
the flippant, carefree Emily of the past who run through
the world in quite.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
A clueless fashion. Tells. What do you think about Emily's
arc this season so far?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
They really humanize Emily this season. I think we finally
get some insight into why.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
She is the way she is.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
She's like a perfectionist, She's very ambitious, she has like
an inability to really switch off from work, and she
talks a little bit about her family and her parents,
feeling like good grades and a good job is really
what defines being successful and really informs her sense of self.
I think this is really the first time we've gotten
a glimpse into her life really outside of Paris and
(30:08):
her new experiences and why she is the way she is.
There's one scene where Luke really calls out Emily for
having intimacy issues. He talks about how like her crazy
bolt outfits are a way for her to avoid being vulnerable,
which I think is true and one of the first
times we've seen someone kind of.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Call her out for that.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And as the scenes that have gone on, the show really.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Has to evolve.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
We first saw a little bit of that last season
when after she broke up with Gabrielle, she goes back
to Paris bumps into Alfie. She's very emotionally vulnerable. In
that scene, he mentions his new girlfriend who's about to meet,
and she really breaks down crying, And I remember watching
that scene feeling like that was one of the first
moments where we really saw Emily's like true emotions and
(30:51):
her having her really vulnerable moment. And for me personally,
I've found it a little bit difficult to connect to
Emily in the earlier seasons, maybe because she is so
shiny and polished and at a distance and we never
really see her sweat. Yeah, she's always got it together,
even when she's stressed. It's more like a comedic, humorous
moment than it is something where you're really trying to
(31:12):
feel for her. And now that they've established this like
high concept premise, I think now they're trying to really
deepen the relationship the audience has with this character, because
I do foresee having many more seasons where the stakes
are just a little bit higher now.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
It is really interesting what you said as well about
her big bold outfits being a bit of a front
for not showing her real self and that wall between
her and the outside world, And for me, that really
draws a parallel to the first episode in Nobody Wants This,
where Joanne goes into a party, and that is something
that Noah says to her, like, you have this place
(31:47):
for her coat, and it's sort of like you want
to walk in and sort of have everyone's eyes beyond you.
But at the same time, that's not your real self.
It's a front for the public facing version of you.
We also did Nobody Wants This on Watch Party.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Because so go back and listen to that.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
But I think Emily's similar in that way, where it
is this huge front and it's this designer, big, bold
energy that she puts out there that.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Maybe isn't her real self.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah. Another notable difference for Emily this season is a
missing someone who likes to pop up pretty often throughout
the rest of the seasons, but that we haven't seen
that much so far in the first four episodes. And
that is one Chef Gabrielle, what do you think about that,
Tina one?
Speaker 4 (32:25):
He looks so good, love his haircut, Thank you so
much to whoever made him do that. Love Gabrielle. But yes,
so this season he does sort of follow Emily to
Rome as we thought he might, and it's actually a
really great introductory shot, like she's leaving her office with
Marcello and then he's like behind Joe Goldberg. The framing
(32:47):
of the shot, I was like, that's nice, they're kissing.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
What are you doing?
Speaker 4 (32:52):
It was just like a man there, Why would he
be there? But like it was a beautiful shot. It
showed him. He's showed all the spectrum of human emotion
across his face of like seeing her feeling heartbroken and
she's with someone, but this time he makes the decision
not to engage and not to to go after her
and make his presence known and interrupt her happiness, which
is something that we spoke about in our first episode
(33:13):
about how some people feel about Gabrielle is that he's
constantly showing up and like ruining life for Emily. It's
not how I feel about him, but I understand the critiques.
What I did love was that Sylvia was the one
who saw him and like took him out to lunch
and like one reinvigorated his love of food. So that
was nice little food montage. We love that he's going
to take that back with him to Paris. But more
(33:34):
than that, she kind of spoke to him about Emily
and Marcello, and I think it was really lovely. She
was like, she's got life to live. Like they had
this really great conversation about like, you know, I know
that you love Emily, but like she has to get
out there, she has to date, she has to live
a life, and then she's maybe going to be the
right girl for you and we'll see how that pans out.
And he actually took that advice on board and like
went away very much so because we just didn't he
(33:54):
him after that, and he's been a silent character this season.
But I do feel to an extent that that is
about making sure that the audience is time to fall
in love with him again and to like miss him.
It's that whole thing absence makes the heart grow fonder,
taking him away from us so that we have the
time to see him and also see him grow up.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
That's another critique that there's been of him is that
his behavior has been quite immature. Him knowing when to
walk away, knowing when not to bother her or chase
after her when she's happy, and not destroy her happiness.
It shows growth on his part, and now it gives
us a chance.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
To miss him as a view er, I did feel
that need to miss him.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
He's too around. I might say he's too visible presents,
but not emotionally. No.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I kind of hope moving forward as well in the
later episodes, I hope he's scarce first of all, so
we have.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Time to miss him. Yeah, but I hope we see
him do his own thing.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I think up until this point, Gabrielle has sort of
been just existing in the realm of that love triangle. Yeah,
it's just like a plot point in my opinion, where
he's just around in order to facilitate the romance and
the show. Where I feel like we would love him
more if we see him do his own thing, have
a little bit of growth, figure himself out before him
and Emily kind of meet again and come back together.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Yeah, so true, because especially like Emily's got her career,
Mindy's always singing, Like everyone's always doing something. We're really
on people's careers. And I know that he had his
whole Michelin star or deal, but he's also just been
like so unhappy with his restaurant. So like it'd be
nice to see a bit of change there, I.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Agree, And at the end of episode four, we basically
see that Emily's career arc in Rome has somewhat imploded.
She's done this ad campaign for Moratory, which has led
to Solitano being this sweet little local town now becoming
a tourist hot spot.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Everyone's mad at her.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
They've dropped Agents Gratto as their pr representative, and basically
it's all blown up. Her chance at running the Italian
office is dashed. We have this very cute line from
Sylvie being like, I need my Emily in Paris at
the end. I mean, I have convoluted feelings about putting
the title of a show into a line of dialog
in the script, but.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I see it for Emily in Paris. I understand why
they did it.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I don't know if you guys agree with this, but
from my perspective as a viewer, I do think many
people are going to think this Rome chapter was too condensed.
We've moved the whole show go to Rome new career.
It's meant to be this new opportunity that Darren Starr
kind of talked about a lot for Emily as this
big character development arc in season five, and it's now
(36:17):
already over four episodes in.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
For me, Rome had to be a longer chapter.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
We needed to see her make a local friend, We
needed to see her explore the city a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And for me, this was too rushed. What did you
guys think about that?
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I do think it was rushed. I was left feeling
a little bit like, what was this for? Who was
this for? I liked the concept of her going to Rome.
I liked them doing something different and introduced us to
other people and other places, but also not really other people.
It was just the entire team from Rome and a
few marketing people who they met with who went very nice.
Shout out to the lady from Fendy. But I do
think that this is a problem of our modern times
(36:50):
and our short seasons, right, Like, this is a ten
episode season, and I know the episodes are a little
bit longer, but often shows used to be like eighteen
twenty episodes. That was what Sex and the City was
for the most part, with the exception of season five.
So like, when you do lessen the amount of episodes,
you lessen the amount of time that you have to
play with a storyline. And I also think they were
probably highly aware of the fact that this is Emily
(37:11):
in Paris, and people like Paris and like the dynamic,
and there was only so long that they could get
away with like Alfie, we need you in Rome for
this legal contract, Mindy, please come see in Rome. And
maybe they didn't want to like split cities, but I
actually almost think that would have been better if we
had a bit of like coverage of what was going
on in Paris and coverage of what was going on
in Rome, rather than trying to shove it all into
(37:32):
just four episodes in Italy. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I agree it went very quickly, but I couldn't be
happier that we're going back to Paris. The little Marcello
chapter I I'm not a fan of him, obviously, And
the feeling I got when they were in Rome was
that it was very temporary, Like you were saying, Tina,
how we're not really establishing her with any new important.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Characters in Rome.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
So it never felt like this was going to be
home based or somewhere that she was going to spend
a lot of her time.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
So for me, it felt like short and sweet. I'm
happy with that.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Back to Paris, back to business, you know.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I also love like the vibe of Paris. Obviously that's
the whole reason we kind of fell in love with
this show. But I all so just love like when yes,
she's got romantic drama or work drama, but I love
the consistency of when she is in Paris and it
just gets to feel like an office or friendship or
romantic drama and not also like now I'm in a
new place and this is happening and Marcello is here, Like,
you know, I just don't want him there, first of all,
(38:23):
and second of all, I just want to be back
in Paris. So I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, as I view it kind of feels like we're
coming home.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Yeah, I had to say that. Yeah, maybe that was
also part of it. Maybe they were like, okay, everyone's
gotten two used to Paris. We need to get them
back in love with it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I felt unsettled with her in Rome and I was like,
I just want her to go get a croissant. Not
that she really took that many croissants, but I wanted
to be able to exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I felt like almost like a device for us to
feel like, yep, she's much more proisy and now she's
like like, Yeah, she's assimilated into life in Paris, she
has her friendship group there, She's she's really got a
life there and making us feel like this is the
journey she's been on from season one.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
Now in season five, she's home.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
You know, Do you guys have any thoughts on where
things may go now that she's back in Paris.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I don't want to see Marcello again, but I'm sure, sure,
right will he'll pop up. He'll find me back. I'd
really love to see Mindy and Alphie get together in
a healthy way, and I don't think that that's going to
happen either. I'd like to see some healthy friendship communication,
but I don't think we'll get that. What I do
think we'll get is this consistency of Gabrielle being out
of our lives, and I do love that only for
his growth. We know, I'm teem Gabrielle. I agree.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I think we won't see a lot of Gabrielle, which
I love. I'm already starting to miss him a little bit,
you know, and I famously despise that man.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
It's worked on you, ye, you know, something's working.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
I believe we're going to see a bit of back
and forth with Alfhi and Mindy. There was inevitably going
to be a fall up between her and Emily, which
will be huge, and I don't know that I love that,
because Mindy and Emily have really been this like grounding
force in the show and a real like safe haven
where while there's all this chaos going around work chaos,
chaos with boyfriends, new men, her and Mindy.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Have always been good, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But I do think we're going to see some sort
of a friendship fallout, and hopefully we see Mindy and
Alphie break up. That's that's my take. I don't love
them together, so yeah, hopefully by the end of the
season they're not together.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
It was probably needed for Mindy and Emily to have
this cross roads in their friendship because I feel like
they haven't had a huge testing point as of yet.
My hope is that Emily has a big next career step,
because I was really feeling from her in these first
four episodes that she's ready for that next step. She
was so excited to run the Roman office without Sylvie
hovering over her and without being monitored and supervised, and
(40:32):
it just felt like this push and pull. She was
really ready for that step, but it wasn't being given
to her next. So my hope for her is that
something big happens in her career, she gets a little
bit more independence. I don't know if that will be
within agents Grotto or she'll end up starting.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Her own thing.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I don't know what the working visa situation is like
over there, but that is my wish for Emily Cooper.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And I'm sure Mindy will sing again.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Thank you so much for joining us today to deep
dive into the first four episodes of the new season
of Emily in Paris on Netflix. We'll be back in
your feed very soon to unpack the rest of the season.
Our next pod drop will be covering episodes five to eight,
and the one after that will cover the last two
episodes of the season. So make sure you're following the
watch Party feed wherever you get your podcasts so you
(41:15):
don't miss a beat. And if you're loving the pod,
leave us a rating and review. Watch Party is produced
by myself, Manitius Warren, and Georgie Page, with audio production
by Scott Stronik and video production by Michael Kein Bye Bye.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Bye, Mamma. Mia Acknowledges the traditional owners of the land.
We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigor people of
the orination. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
(41:50):
Torres Strait Islander cultures.
You're listening to Amma mea podcast Help Help You.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
From Mamma Mia.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to The Spills watch Party, where we unpacked the
biggest shows that the entire world is talking about. My
name is mansiaus Warren. I'm the executive producer of Mamma
MIA's entertainment podcast, The Spill, as well as this podcast
watch Party, and today we are talking about one of
my absolute favorite shows of all time, Emily in Paris,
and I'm joined by two fellow super fans who love
(00:40):
Emily as much as I do.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I am Tina Burke. I am Mama MEAs pop culture
and social editor. I am obsessed with all things entertainment
and Hollywood, and I love a girl called Emily Cooper
and anything made by Darren Starr. So I'm very excited
to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And I'm Chelsea ware Mom and MIA's entertainment producer, and
like Tina, i am a fiend for anything pop culture related.
But I'm also a fashion girlie and I'm a frequent
co host on the Nothing to Wear podcast, and Emily
Paris is really my two worlds colliding, so it's one
of my favorite shows.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So the three of us are epic fangirls of this show,
and we have been spending our time binging this season
so we can get all across it to bring you
our thoughts, feelings and deep dives.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And in this.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Episode, we are going to be covering everything that happens
in the first four episodes, so there will be spoilers
if you haven't watched the first four, but we won't
go beyond that, so you're totally safe if you're only
up to ep four.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So we're going to dive.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Into everything from Emily's Italian adventure and how really different
it feels to her og Paris life, as well as
some very controversial relationships that are definitely crossing lines this season.
So we sort of start this season off seeing her
(01:51):
in Rome. She's starting her life there, she's trying to
get Agent Scratcho's Italian leg off the ground. And one
thing that really stood out to me is that in
season one she's obviously living that expat life as an
American in Paris, and we see all these cultural comparisons
drawn between American culture and French culture, and now we
sort of have this third element into the mix, so
it's the Italians via the French, the Americans, her French
(02:13):
colleagues who come over have a lot to say about
the Italians. Did that really stand out to you guys
in terms of I felt this real rivalry between the
French and the Italians in these first few episodes.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I mean I was expecting it going in, considering there
was like geopolitical discourse about like Emily in Paris moving
to Rome. It was a very big deal. But yeah,
there was definitely like a vibe shift because where in
Paris everything was like that little bit more like chic
and elevated and exclusionary. In Italy it had its own
thing going on.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I also think the fish out of water and like
cultural clash is part of the reason we love the show,
and it's like a real pillar of the show, and
a lot of the humor and the conflict that we
see really derived from that Emily's culture clash in Paris,
and I think we needed a new chapter, a new place,
a new experience, and that was Rome.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think it really took it back to that season
one vibe in that way of like everything's new, she
doesn't know anything she knows I mean, not that she
knows much French, but she knows absolutely no Italian. Yeah,
so it really reminded me of the lens through which
we saw France in Season one, and there were just
a bunch of times where that came up, and it
was really stark in terms of how the French few
Italians in the workplace. And one of the first times
(03:20):
was when Emily was with Marchello's family and she's trying
to really push discussing business ideas because obviously they acquired
the Moratory account and she's in the kitchen march Hello's
mum is making risotto, and she just goes, we don't
discuss business at dinner, and it's a full put down
of like And I think that's really evident in terms
of how different Americans are to Europeans, and something that
(03:41):
I think Emily has also encountered in France, because they
just don't mix business and pleasure as much as Americans
do in that kind of setting.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Can I do anything to help?
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Oh, nothing left to do now but stir.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
It smells delicious, Antonia. Can I talk to you about
a few ideas that I have, not.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
What I'm making risotto?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
No problem, I'll talk to your dinner.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We don't discuss business and dinner another time, relax, enjoy.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yeah. She kind of keeps learning these lessons over the
time that she's in Italy, and it's like she just
spent all that time learning how to do it in Paris,
and now they're like, here's a new challenge. She learns
all of these things you don't discuss at dinner, yes,
can me No, Like she kind of has that moment
of realization where she's like, I'm not working in Rome.
I've lost my touch. I don't know what I'm doing.
And it's because she doesn't know how business works here.
She's not used to it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But she honestly reads some xpact guys, because I looked
this up and it was telling me all these things.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
It was like, so, you know, when you're doing business
in Italy, it's good to stay on non commercial topics
in an.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Eating setting, and non commercial topics in marketing or just
while you're eating.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, I think it's your boyfriend's mom, okay could.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I think it's particularly hard for Emily though, because she
we know notoriously she mixes business and pleasure, So how
do you suffer it the two?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And she's been like waiting for this meeting for ages
and suddenly they have the meeting and it's like, actually,
you can't talk about the meeting now because we're serving foods,
all right, and we ruined your shoes.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, that's trouble hunting. Thing was ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
It's like what you mentioned there about how Emily has
gotten used to the fact that Italians start things off
with a yes and it's a little bit noncommittal. I
thought that scene was really interesting when she's unpacking that
with her French colleagues and they're like, oh, in France,
we start a conversation with a no, because then you
can only like you're not committed to anything, whereas in
Italy they start everything with see or yes in a
(05:28):
business setting. And I was reading up a little bit
on that, and apparently that is the case, that it's
a very noncommittal yes in a business sense.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's sort of an umbrella yes and we'll see where
we go from here. Well that went, well, nope, it didn't.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
She said, See, I mean sure, it wasn't an idea
for Paris.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
When Italians say yes, they don't always mean it. They
value politeness, they don't want to offense, so they say
yes even if they don't agree. Ah, Like how the
French always start everything with a no.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
No, we don't.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
At least answering not give you the option of later
saying yes.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
You start with yes, then you're stuck.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
Not in Italy, they just take it back later.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Do you think Fandy will ever give us another chance?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
That's so.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, It's interesting how across cultures there are those little
nuances that you really would only know once you've lived
there and understand the contacts, or it reminds you of
like in Australia when we say like yeah, yeah, yeah,
we all know what that means. Yeah, but I can
imagine for a foreigner you would have no idea what
those little intricacies are.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
When I moved here from Singapore almost ten years ago,
I was very confused by the yenna nah yeah culture.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And I was just told the second one is there.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
The one you pay attend.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
That's what you go with, Yeah, no as a no
nah yeah is a yes.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, it makes so much sense. Yeah, that's good advice.
The second one you pay attention to. Emily needed something
like that. You're right, she needed like a little guide
book business for Americans in Italy.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, I thought another thing that was interesting is we
see Princess Jane the new character, who is what an addition,
I know Sylvie's friend who is married into royalty, lives
in Rome.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Broke now get money. Yeah, and there was an interesting
scene where she met Sylvie and Sylvie's little affair man
and he pretended to the crowns. Was like, the man
that she married wasn't even considered really royal, but thats
key someone who had claimed he was but didn't have
a current claim to the title. So it's like that's
why they're broke and living in a castle that they
(07:24):
rent out as an airbab. But that was played by
Mini Driver obviously, and she was so much fun in
the role.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
She is a heap of fun.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I guess the same way some men lie about their heights,
some lie about their royal status.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Some lie about their royal status. Yes, she was hoodwinked,
but she added so much to the Italian journey, especially
for their careers this season with the booking and the
fee is what killed me. Every time that she offered
to do something yeah, yeah, like I can send you
up with FEddi for a fee.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I guess that is maybe how consulting were I don't
know if I don't know how much she was bringing
to the company. She also said something interesting about her
time in Italy. She said, no one spoke to me
in three years, and I'm royalty. And I did read
a little bit about how social life in Rome. It
does seem on the surface very friendly, and you know,
if you're in a bar or a cafe, people do
tend to talk to you. But I was having a
(08:07):
little read on like expat experiences in Rome, and it
is apparently quite difficult to break into the social fabric.
It has that almost small towny feel, but in a
big city where once you're not in the fold and
you come in as a foreigner, it's quite difficult to
work your way in and almost impossible, some people have said,
to actually break into a fold that isn't just other expats.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So I thought her saying that was a little bit
of a reflection on that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's so interesting because Emily kind of obviously when she
moved to Paris, we saw her trying to establish all
kinds of connections, but she wasn't trying to in Rome,
with the exception of business, so like we only saw
it through the work lens. She wasn't trying to make
friends because she has her friends and she just ships
them over to Rome with her. She had a friend,
like she was fine, she shipped her whole company over
(08:50):
with her. So like the only way we were able
to explore that dynamic was through her career. So it
was really interesting that our princess played by Mini Driver
was offering that lens of like it's really exclusive, you
need someone on the inside to help you. That would
be so stressful. I felt like I was at agent's grotto,
Like I felt like I was there trying to start
at my I was really stressed.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I was, like, guys, there wasn't a lot of planning
in this whole movie. You just sort of got an office.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
As well, like them moving everything over and no one
is left in the Paris.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
They're just on zoom. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I know, especially for someone like Sylvie. I know that
she's a bit I'm going for a smoke in the
middle of the day, it's the French way, but she's
also so business minded and has such a stake and
a love in her own business. It was just so
strange to see her be like and now I'm in
Rome and I guess no one's in Paris other than Genevieve.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, well she was very interested in staying in Rome
due to her Italian lover, but we can get to
that later. Gian Carlo I thought one other thing that
was interesting was Marcello at the party in the mansion
where he decides to pretty much flirt with every X
he's ever had, it seems, in these few episodes in
front of his new girlfriend. And he explained that away
as that's how Italians talk, which is very expressive. We
(09:58):
use our hands a lot, which obviously Italians are renowned
worldwide for being very expressive, very.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Passionate when they're speaking.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I sort of think you need to quite me quiet
that passionate when you're speaking to your ex girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
But what do you guys think the fact that we're
talking about multiple ex girlfriends as like the real red flag.
I can like understand in some cultures there's like a
physicality where there's like an unspoken language, Italian culture being
one of those. Well, yeah, they are very expressive, it's
very physical. But Emily, in a short period, in a week,
having to encounter two exes is bizarre.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
That is a red flag. I don't know that man
just gave me the ick all season long, Like in
these episodes, he was just he didn't seem to understand
much of what she was doing with him, like as
in like they go truffle hunting, he doesn't warn her
about the shoes they go hang out with all his exes.
He doesn't say anything till she feels noticeably uncomfortable and
tries to leave. He just was giving me the ick
in not understanding like that he was in a relationship
(10:49):
with somebody who's kind of a vibe of that whole
castle scene.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Also, his apology didn't really land because I'll pick you
up tomorrow, don't worry.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And then she's like, I'm sorry, yeah, projected I overreacted.
I'm like, nah, he was.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Like really flirting with his exod yeah, yeah, I think
you're allowed a little.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Yeah, And that's the current thing that we like, we
picked up on that as being something she did a
bit this season, and I wonder what the reasoning was,
because it felt strange that she apologized in that instance.
It's like, I don't really think you did anything wrong,
but it's like they're trying to make her character like
that bit more like likable Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So one of the brands that they acquire during their
time in Italy is called Intimacy. It's a lingerie brand,
and this spark's the whole thing for Emily because she's
trying to figure out how to sell lingerie agents. Gratto's
whole thing is we want to prove the French can
sell sex better than the Italians. This is such a
funny little arc because Emily always sort of struggles with
those things that are more on the sexy side to
deal with Intimacy, and I feel like it's a real
(11:41):
commentary from the Europeans that, you know, Americans are a
little bit more reserved because Europe's just known for being
a bit more out there and like embracing all of
that kind of stuff. And she definitely gets that feedback
from Luke and Julia that they obviously think she's a
bit of a quote unquote prude. We saw last season
when Gabrielle wanted to have sex on the roof and
she had a bit of a freak out. She was like,
I just want to be an event. So yeah, we
(12:03):
really see Emily struggle with coming up with the tagline there,
whether you know, to go full out or be a
little bit more reserved in how she markets it. What
did you guys think of her approach to selling intimacy.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, I think obviously she was called out for having
intimacy issues by her coworkers and has been called a
prude and everything, so I think she tried to go
the opposite direction and like really channeled like everything she's
learned in France about being sexy. She pitched something that
just wasn't seen as right for the actual Italian audience
versus like what she thought they would want, Like she
wanted to be like it's like better than naked, like
as in the Sexiest you can look as wearing lingerie
(12:37):
and like the princess was in the meeting with her
and she's like, it's just a bit confusing, Sweedie, Like
no one understands that. And she kind of learned that actually,
according to intimacy, Italians are more interested in like the
connection and the meaning, so she had to go away
and find that again. So I feel like she's learned
a lot about her, you know, Italian culture in her
very short time in Rome.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Now, while we're on the topic of sort of clothes
and garments and that kind of area. Chelse, You're a
real fashion girlie, and the fashion this season has been
a little bit different. Obviously she's in a different place,
the setting is different. A lot of it's giving Audrey
Hepburn Rome holiday callbacks. What can you tell us about
her Roman edition of fashion?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I mean, with a show like this where the fashion
is almost like a character in itself, so pivotal to
the show every season, I think we've seen a bit
of an evolution this season. Yes, we lean very heavily
into Italian fashion, and the costume designer, Marilyn Fittucci has
said that they're leaning into like glamorous black and white
Italian movies. They've taken a lot of inspo from like
(13:33):
old Hollywood stars, so like Sophia Loren, Silvana Mangano, Cudi Cardinali,
and like all these icons who have like real style
and a lot of personality. We see Emily even all
the promotional picks and in the first few episodes in
Rome in a lot of polka dots, which feels very
very Italian, and even in the press tour outfits. We
know that especially Lily Collins, being like the fashion icon
(13:53):
that she is, always slays a red carpet, but they
recently did like a photo call in Venice, so all
three ladies were wearing Italian designers Philippine Leroy, Bellu in Ferragamo,
Lily Collins and Scaparelli.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
She loves that brand.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
It's an Italian founded French oakuture House, Ashley Park and
Antonio Grimaldi. They're really leaning into Italian fashion brands this season,
both in the show and in real life. And yeah,
but shows like this, I find it always really interesting
that the fashion really reflects where Emily is, what state
of mind she's in, where she is, and the culture
(14:27):
she's kind of trying to assimilate into.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Did you have a favorite look of the first few episodes.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Oh, when they go to the Fendi shop, she's wearing
this like jumpsuit.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's like silky, and it's like geometric
tiles or like something's going on. It's like a kind
of like scarf print.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yes, yes, there's a real like interesting pattern on it. It
feels it's very Italian. And yeah, and she's so depressed,
but she looks so good.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Yeah, she's like sitting there like she's like I haven't
slept and she's got big sunglasses on, and she's like,
I think my boyfriend's going to break up. He's taking
you to buy a Fendi bag and you look great.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That might be the only moment in the first few
episodes where I'm like, okay.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
March alone, okay, all right? Ding himself with that one. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
We also see in that scene a little musical drop
in of this song which will be very familiar to
Sex and the City fans. What's that has got to
(15:39):
be Real by Cheryl Lynn And it's a very famous
song from Sex and the City. Famously you played in
season four when Carrie Bradshaw has her iconic runway fall,
and we see it here where Emily is taken by
Marcello to go and get a Fendi bag, which is
very Sex in the City coded, and I loved that
little Darren Starr call back there. So obviously we've only
seen up till episode four, and at the end of
(15:59):
episode four it's revealed that they're going back to Paris.
Do you think that is something that will be reflected
in the fashion one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
The costume designers have been very open about the fact
that where Emily is reflects in what she wears. Season
one and two, we saw so many bold colors. We
saw a lot of bucket hats, random prints. I think
episode one, when she shows up at Asano, she's literally
wearing like a Paris Eiffel Tower printed shirt. It's really bold,
it's a little bit obnoxious. And as the seasons have
(16:27):
progressed and she's become more Prisian, more French, her style
has reflected that and become a little bit more understated,
a little bit more luxurious.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I guess we have seen first from Emily because she
didn't show up in a T shirt with the coliseum
on it or something.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
That's progress.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So after the break, we are going to get stuck
into what I would say it's the juiciest plot line
that we were all kind of waiting for this season,
and I'm pretty sure most people feel the same.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
So we're going to be unpacking that next.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Okay, so we absolutely have to talk about the relationship
that we saw teased in the trailer and that we've
now seen come to fruition and I don't know how
to feel about it, which is Mindy and Alfie, Chelsea,
what can you tell us about what we've seen so far?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We saw this coming.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It was in the trailer Emily's off to Rome, which
leaves Mindy and Alfie in Paris alone, meeting up as friends.
They get dinner, sparks start flying, they're starting to flirt.
It's kind of entering that territory of maybe something romantic,
and it freaks Mindy.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Out a little bit. She's like, okay, like what is this?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
She goes off to Rome to visit Emily and she's
kind of texting with Alfie, and conveniently, Alfie also ends
up in Rome for work as it is in this show,
and she gets recruited for this strange Italian dance competition
show and she needs.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Help rehearsing, so why not call Alfi.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
They have a little in the same hotel, staying at
the same hotel, and.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Weirdly, his mother apparently made him take ballroom dancing lessons
growing up, so.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
They have a little dance.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Things are kind of heating up. They share a kiss,
and then things kind of snowball from there where they
kind of intermate with each other, hiding this from Emily
the entire time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And this is a real look at girl code, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
And whether or not Mindy's crossed the line here because
I don't know about you guys, but I think she
was one hundred percent across the line. I know she
did initially in one of the first episodes of the season,
try and sort of float with Emily like, oh, you
don't steal her feelings for Alfie, do you? And Emily
was like, nah, but that's a little bit different. You're
not giving context to why I ask him that question.
(18:32):
If I suddenly asked one of you guys, oh, do
you still have feelings for next You'd probably be like no,
and they'd be like, well, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Love with him.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
I'm not in love, but I'm dating it.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
We may feel a little bit differently.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I did a bit of a deep dive into girl
code because I wanted to clarify for myself before we
weigh in on whether or not she did break girl
code what exactly girl code is. And what I found
was that psychologists talk about unspoken social contracts, rules that
we don't write down, but we expect people close to
us to honor. And girl code is basically that a
lot of it's rooted in attachment theory, because a lot
(19:02):
of people see close female friendships as sort of emotional
safe havens in the case else of life. And one
thing I think that really defines whether or not you
have broken girl code is what level of friendship you
are at with that person. And with Mindy and Emily,
she is her ride or die in Paris. This is
not a casual friend. This is someone she met on
a park bench but turned into a lifelong bestie.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
They live together.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
She's been there through the chaos, the heartbreak, the career
highs and lows. I think the level of friendship really
matters here, which is why I strongly feel like she
has crossed the line.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Where do you guys sit with that?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, she crossed the line for me. I think starting
a relationship with Alfie is one thing, but the complete
lack of communication and the lying is where you get me.
Do I think that you could date a friend's X.
I wouldn't do it, but I think it depends on
how that friend feels about that relationship at that time
and whether they care or not. And Mindy never really
(19:56):
had that conversation with Emily, and they proceed to lie
for several episodes, which I think is the problem.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Completely agree with you, Chelsea, I think that's going to
be the biggest question on everyone's lips does this action
potentially break girl code? I had the chance to sit
down with Lily Collins and Ashley Park to talk about
season five of Emily in Paris, which was obviously so
exciting and there were so many things that we wanted
to talk to them about, but the biggest one, of
course had to be does this action break the girl code?
(20:23):
And here's what they had to say about that.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Well, I think, you know, there's a scene where Mindy
asks Emily, like, you're cool. You guys are all okay, right,
and it's like Emily genuinely is okay. It's like at
this point Alphie is less of an ex and more
of a coworker friend, like it's not an immediate ex,
and they have a respect for each other in a
work in the workplace now, and Emily's like, cool, They're cool.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
And so I think.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
It's all about the communication. Again, no spoilers, but their
communication between Mindy and Emily is what ultimately is the
most hurtful, not what happens.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
And so I think.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Everyone's going to have different boundaries in their relationships with
their friends. But I think what's key is making sure
that you speak with honesty, with truth, with empathy, and
with love and the communication.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
And I think both of these girls in particular have
been having different kinds of identity crisis. Is as we've
seen in five seasons. The one thing that has been
steadfast is that they're each other safe place and they're
each other's.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Kind of home.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
And I think that that's, you know, that's very It
shakes them to the core when they're not able to
be that for each other. And I actually, you know,
what I'll say in standby is that I think the
what's most realistic and genuine is not being perfect.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Right.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
It's something that we've talked about that we as women
and also in terms of female friendships, like to have
that pressure of being perfect or else it's not a
good thing, and not a great thing is.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Not great.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
So I think that it's really it to bring that
kind of realistic texture of like overcoming something together when
you felt like you had to be a part, I
think is kind of I'm really proud of.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
So I think obviously they gave like a really nuanced
answer to that question, kind of a two part answer
as well, which touches on I think a lot of
the feelings that all three of us really took away
from watching these scenes, but in particular the scenes of
the initial kiss and everything. What Lily has described is
what you touched on Chelsea, which is like, it's not
necessarily that Emily would still have feelings for Alphie. It's
(22:23):
not necessarily that she would have seen the idea of
them as a couple is something that would upset her.
But it's more about the fact that this has now
happened in secret, and any continuation of a lie, or
of miscommunication or of like not being super clear with
each other on where it's going, that would be the
problem in the friendship, and that's going to be the
thing that brings the tension. But I really loved what
Ashley had to say about Mindy, which is like, we're
(22:44):
talking about this in terms of the characters, right, Like
we're saying, as a friend, would it break girl code?
As a friend, would you be upset if someone did this?
And will obviously inevitably see that play out in the
coming episodes, But it's also really good to include these
kinds of mistakes that women make sometimes in their lives.
And that's the really interesting thing that Ashley touched on
and it's a big conversation that has happened previously around
(23:06):
like Carrie Bradhat or like Miranda and Samantha and the
mistakes that they make in Sex in the City, and
how women can be unlikable sometimes women can make mistakes sometimes,
and so it's a bit of a two parter, which
is really interesting. What do you think of that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I also love what Ashley said about seeing imperfect women
on screen and how that's really important. My only qualm
with that is I would love to see a little
bit more accountability from Mindy.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I agree women can be imperfect.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I'm a staunch supporter of Emily, Carrie, Miranda surmanth that
all these women who are imperfect, and as much as
the public love to criticize these women, I think it's
so important to see different kinds of women who make
mistakes and friendships they kind of break apart, and how
they come back together. But we haven't yet seen how
this is going to play out between Emily and Mindy.
But what was liking for me in those early days
of her getting together with Alfhi is her not having
(23:53):
a second thought about how Emily would feel about this
and kind of continuing this affair behind her back.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I think it was also interesting what they said. It
sort of echoes what we were talking about earlier that
girlhood and female friendships is considered a very safe space
a lot of people, and that is your little safe
corner in the.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Chaos of the world.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
And that is really what has rocked Emily to her core,
is that that little safe corner has now been imploded
with uncertainty and something that you didn't see coming. So
I do agree that probably the issue wasn't the act itself,
but the lack of communication and I guess feeling like
you've been blindsided. There's very few things in life probably
where if you were just sat down and it was
(24:33):
explained to you and the feelings were all talked out,
that you would be so shaken by It often is
about the lack of transparency or the fact that something
hasn't been warned or flagged with you beforehand, especially when
it was something where there is a lot of emotional
residue there.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, obviously we will see how this all plays out,
but obviously there would be there are many women in
the real world who will have experienced this in their
friendships and so it's great to show the different perspectives
on screen and for us to yet to explore this dynamic.
I have been on the record saying I didn't want
this to be how this relationship was explored, and I
stand by that. I would have for the Alphi and
(25:08):
Mindy thing to come about in a different way. And
that's just for me and how I choose to enjoy
this show and like what I want from it. I
still love all of these characters and I'm excited to
see what happens and where it goes. But I do
agree with you, Chelsea that I think maybe we needed
a bit more time to delve into this if we
wanted to go this route of showing this storyline, and
because the episodes, like because there's not that many of them,
it just felt like we really rushed into this thing
(25:29):
and it's got a bit more tension and not enough
time to show the thinking of what's going on with
Mindy and maybe the attention and detail and care that
could have been given to it. If we're going to
go into something that could maybe ruin a friendship and
how that would play out. Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I'm not a huge fan of the word they've done it,
but I'm hoping that Emily and Mindy will come out
of the stronger and that you know, by the end
of the season, we'll see the dynamic duo back together
and hopefully having some difficult conversations.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yeah, and on that Argentine and tango, because I was
a really big fan of that sort of arc seeing
Mindy have to learn this dance. I had a bit
of a rogue thought as to whether it's a metaphor
stay with me here doing the Argentine tango in private,
it's this sort of sexy secret when he picks her up,
it works so well, and then when that's taken public
(26:15):
on the dance competition stage, she falls flat on her face.
Is that a metaphor for when this relationship comes out,
comes to light and sees it. Yeah, and everyone finds
out that it's going to be an absolute flop and
not take off. And they maybe did quite a literal
metaphor which they liked to do in Emily in Paris
of her literally crashing and falling on her face.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Let's hope maybe I took it to a different play
like that.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Why not?
Speaker 6 (26:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
If it's a controversial opinion because famously last episode, I
was all for this.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love mixing up the different couples and seeing what happens,
and I also love those two characters individually. Yeah, I
personally wasn't really a fan of the chemistry. I felt, yeah,
casing maybe was wrong. We didn't have any build up
from the first episode them having dinner and the sparks
flying didn't feel organic to me.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Even the tango I felt, oh I had to close, yeah, cringing.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
So I'm shocked because I love these two actors. I
like these two characters, so you would think that putting
them together wouldn't make sense. And I think that's probably
what the producers were thinking when they did it.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yeah, I think I agree with you. I was all
for this and I was really excited about it. But
the fact that it feels kind of rushed into, Like
I think we could have done that first episode where
they go to dinner and she starts to realize that
there's a bit of a spark or something there. I
think we needed like a whole season's worth of build
up tension or pining or build up and actual conversations
with Emily or even just like a little bit more
(27:37):
of an attempt to discuss it with Emily or to
figure it out before diving headfirst into scandal and girl code,
and like friendship issues.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
As a viewer, I think with chemistry it is also
hard to get into it when you've already seen him
develop that arc with someone else who's a main character.
I draw comparison to Gossip Girl because I used to
find it really difficult how everyone would just swap within
the friendship circle. The Dan Nate, Serena Blair of it
all really got to me, and I think.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
That's just what you loved about it. You're like, really,
But I do think there was more time given to
it on that That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
There's so much emotional residue there with Alfie and Emily.
I don't even feel like there was proper closure. She
had tears in her eyes when she found out he
had a new girlfriend towards the end of last season.
So I just don't think there was enough time. And
much like Gossip Girl, this show, no one dates outside
the circle. Everyone has to just couple swapping in the circle.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It's a very incestuous friendship group.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
You're in Europe, there's other men get on hine, Emily
and Mindy and everyone.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
The time thing is important when it comes to Gossip Girl.
I also think all those pairings, when you really think
about it, they had chemistry.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
And they had established dynamics.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, even Dan and Blair, which really
came out of left field.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I hate that storyline.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
A line they had common interests, even though it wasn't
really explored earlier on. Once they were put together, it
kind of made sense. I wasn't necessarily rooting for them
to be together in the end, but I think that
little chapter was a lot of fun. I enjoyed watching them,
and you really felt the chemistry between these two people,
which personally is what I feel is lacking in Mindy
and Alfie.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
All Right, we spent a lot of time talking about
the other characters in this show, but after the break,
it's time to get back to our main girl, Emily
Cooper and what she's been up to this season. Okay,
so Emily has been on quite the journey in these
first four episodes. A lot has happened, and I think
we've seen a lot of character development in her go
through different things. She seems like a different Emily to
(29:29):
the flippant, carefree Emily of the past who run through
the world in quite.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
A clueless fashion. Tells. What do you think about Emily's
arc this season so far?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
They really humanize Emily this season. I think we finally
get some insight into why.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
She is the way she is.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
She's like a perfectionist, She's very ambitious, she has like
an inability to really switch off from work, and she
talks a little bit about her family and her parents,
feeling like good grades and a good job is really
what defines being successful and really informs her sense of self.
I think this is really the first time we've gotten
a glimpse into her life really outside of Paris and
(30:08):
her new experiences and why she is the way she is.
There's one scene where Luke really calls out Emily for
having intimacy issues. He talks about how like her crazy
bolt outfits are a way for her to avoid being vulnerable,
which I think is true and one of the first
times we've seen someone kind of.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Call her out for that.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And as the scenes that have gone on, the show really.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Has to evolve.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
We first saw a little bit of that last season
when after she broke up with Gabrielle, she goes back
to Paris bumps into Alfie. She's very emotionally vulnerable. In
that scene, he mentions his new girlfriend who's about to meet,
and she really breaks down crying, And I remember watching
that scene feeling like that was one of the first
moments where we really saw Emily's like true emotions and
(30:51):
her having her really vulnerable moment. And for me personally,
I've found it a little bit difficult to connect to
Emily in the earlier seasons, maybe because she is so
shiny and polished and at a distance and we never
really see her sweat. Yeah, she's always got it together,
even when she's stressed. It's more like a comedic, humorous
moment than it is something where you're really trying to
(31:12):
feel for her. And now that they've established this like
high concept premise, I think now they're trying to really
deepen the relationship the audience has with this character, because
I do foresee having many more seasons where the stakes
are just a little bit higher now.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
It is really interesting what you said as well about
her big bold outfits being a bit of a front
for not showing her real self and that wall between
her and the outside world, And for me, that really
draws a parallel to the first episode in Nobody Wants This,
where Joanne goes into a party, and that is something
that Noah says to her, like, you have this place
(31:47):
for her coat, and it's sort of like you want
to walk in and sort of have everyone's eyes beyond you.
But at the same time, that's not your real self.
It's a front for the public facing version of you.
We also did Nobody Wants This on Watch Party.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Because so go back and listen to that.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
But I think Emily's similar in that way, where it
is this huge front and it's this designer, big, bold
energy that she puts out there that.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Maybe isn't her real self.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah. Another notable difference for Emily this season is a
missing someone who likes to pop up pretty often throughout
the rest of the seasons, but that we haven't seen
that much so far in the first four episodes. And
that is one Chef Gabrielle, what do you think about that,
Tina one?
Speaker 4 (32:25):
He looks so good, love his haircut, Thank you so
much to whoever made him do that. Love Gabrielle. But yes,
so this season he does sort of follow Emily to
Rome as we thought he might, and it's actually a
really great introductory shot, like she's leaving her office with
Marcello and then he's like behind Joe Goldberg. The framing
(32:47):
of the shot, I was like, that's nice, they're kissing.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
What are you doing?
Speaker 4 (32:52):
It was just like a man there, Why would he
be there? But like it was a beautiful shot. It
showed him. He's showed all the spectrum of human emotion
across his face of like seeing her feeling heartbroken and
she's with someone, but this time he makes the decision
not to engage and not to to go after her
and make his presence known and interrupt her happiness, which
is something that we spoke about in our first episode
(33:13):
about how some people feel about Gabrielle is that he's
constantly showing up and like ruining life for Emily. It's
not how I feel about him, but I understand the critiques.
What I did love was that Sylvia was the one
who saw him and like took him out to lunch
and like one reinvigorated his love of food. So that
was nice little food montage. We love that he's going
to take that back with him to Paris. But more
(33:34):
than that, she kind of spoke to him about Emily
and Marcello, and I think it was really lovely. She
was like, she's got life to live. Like they had
this really great conversation about like, you know, I know
that you love Emily, but like she has to get
out there, she has to date, she has to live
a life, and then she's maybe going to be the
right girl for you and we'll see how that pans out.
And he actually took that advice on board and like
went away very much so because we just didn't he
(33:54):
him after that, and he's been a silent character this season.
But I do feel to an extent that that is
about making sure that the audience is time to fall
in love with him again and to like miss him.
It's that whole thing absence makes the heart grow fonder,
taking him away from us so that we have the
time to see him and also see him grow up.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
That's another critique that there's been of him is that
his behavior has been quite immature. Him knowing when to
walk away, knowing when not to bother her or chase
after her when she's happy, and not destroy her happiness.
It shows growth on his part, and now it gives
us a chance.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
To miss him as a view er, I did feel
that need to miss him.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
He's too around. I might say he's too visible presents,
but not emotionally. No.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I kind of hope moving forward as well in the
later episodes, I hope he's scarce first of all, so
we have.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Time to miss him. Yeah, but I hope we see
him do his own thing.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I think up until this point, Gabrielle has sort of
been just existing in the realm of that love triangle. Yeah,
it's just like a plot point in my opinion, where
he's just around in order to facilitate the romance and
the show. Where I feel like we would love him
more if we see him do his own thing, have
a little bit of growth, figure himself out before him
and Emily kind of meet again and come back together.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Yeah, so true, because especially like Emily's got her career,
Mindy's always singing, Like everyone's always doing something. We're really
on people's careers. And I know that he had his
whole Michelin star or deal, but he's also just been
like so unhappy with his restaurant. So like it'd be
nice to see a bit of change there, I.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Agree, And at the end of episode four, we basically
see that Emily's career arc in Rome has somewhat imploded.
She's done this ad campaign for Moratory, which has led
to Solitano being this sweet little local town now becoming
a tourist hot spot.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Everyone's mad at her.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
They've dropped Agents Gratto as their pr representative, and basically
it's all blown up. Her chance at running the Italian
office is dashed. We have this very cute line from
Sylvie being like, I need my Emily in Paris at
the end. I mean, I have convoluted feelings about putting
the title of a show into a line of dialog
in the script, but.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I see it for Emily in Paris. I understand why
they did it.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I don't know if you guys agree with this, but
from my perspective as a viewer, I do think many
people are going to think this Rome chapter was too condensed.
We've moved the whole show go to Rome new career.
It's meant to be this new opportunity that Darren Starr
kind of talked about a lot for Emily as this
big character development arc in season five, and it's now
(36:17):
already over four episodes in.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
For me, Rome had to be a longer chapter.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
We needed to see her make a local friend, We
needed to see her explore the city a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And for me, this was too rushed. What did you
guys think about that?
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I do think it was rushed. I was left feeling
a little bit like, what was this for? Who was
this for? I liked the concept of her going to Rome.
I liked them doing something different and introduced us to
other people and other places, but also not really other people.
It was just the entire team from Rome and a
few marketing people who they met with who went very nice.
Shout out to the lady from Fendy. But I do
think that this is a problem of our modern times
(36:50):
and our short seasons, right, Like, this is a ten
episode season, and I know the episodes are a little
bit longer, but often shows used to be like eighteen
twenty episodes. That was what Sex and the City was
for the most part, with the exception of season five.
So like, when you do lessen the amount of episodes,
you lessen the amount of time that you have to
play with a storyline. And I also think they were
probably highly aware of the fact that this is Emily
(37:11):
in Paris, and people like Paris and like the dynamic,
and there was only so long that they could get
away with like Alfie, we need you in Rome for
this legal contract, Mindy, please come see in Rome. And
maybe they didn't want to like split cities, but I
actually almost think that would have been better if we
had a bit of like coverage of what was going
on in Paris and coverage of what was going on
in Rome, rather than trying to shove it all into
(37:32):
just four episodes in Italy. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I agree it went very quickly, but I couldn't be
happier that we're going back to Paris. The little Marcello
chapter I I'm not a fan of him, obviously, And
the feeling I got when they were in Rome was
that it was very temporary, Like you were saying, Tina,
how we're not really establishing her with any new important.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Characters in Rome.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
So it never felt like this was going to be
home based or somewhere that she was going to spend
a lot of her time.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
So for me, it felt like short and sweet. I'm
happy with that.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Back to Paris, back to business, you know.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I also love like the vibe of Paris. Obviously that's
the whole reason we kind of fell in love with
this show. But I all so just love like when yes,
she's got romantic drama or work drama, but I love
the consistency of when she is in Paris and it
just gets to feel like an office or friendship or
romantic drama and not also like now I'm in a
new place and this is happening and Marcello is here, Like,
you know, I just don't want him there, first of all,
(38:23):
and second of all, I just want to be back
in Paris. So I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, as I view it kind of feels like we're
coming home.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Yeah, I had to say that. Yeah, maybe that was
also part of it. Maybe they were like, okay, everyone's
gotten two used to Paris. We need to get them
back in love with it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I felt unsettled with her in Rome and I was like,
I just want her to go get a croissant. Not
that she really took that many croissants, but I wanted
to be able to exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I felt like almost like a device for us to
feel like, yep, she's much more proisy and now she's
like like, Yeah, she's assimilated into life in Paris, she
has her friendship group there, She's she's really got a
life there and making us feel like this is the
journey she's been on from season one.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
Now in season five, she's home.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
You know, Do you guys have any thoughts on where
things may go now that she's back in Paris.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I don't want to see Marcello again, but I'm sure, sure,
right will he'll pop up. He'll find me back. I'd
really love to see Mindy and Alphie get together in
a healthy way, and I don't think that that's going to
happen either. I'd like to see some healthy friendship communication,
but I don't think we'll get that. What I do
think we'll get is this consistency of Gabrielle being out
of our lives, and I do love that only for
his growth. We know, I'm teem Gabrielle. I agree.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I think we won't see a lot of Gabrielle, which
I love. I'm already starting to miss him a little bit,
you know, and I famously despise that man.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
It's worked on you, ye, you know, something's working.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
I believe we're going to see a bit of back
and forth with Alfhi and Mindy. There was inevitably going
to be a fall up between her and Emily, which
will be huge, and I don't know that I love that,
because Mindy and Emily have really been this like grounding
force in the show and a real like safe haven
where while there's all this chaos going around work chaos,
chaos with boyfriends, new men, her and Mindy.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Have always been good, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But I do think we're going to see some sort
of a friendship fallout, and hopefully we see Mindy and
Alphie break up. That's that's my take. I don't love
them together, so yeah, hopefully by the end of the
season they're not together.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
It was probably needed for Mindy and Emily to have
this cross roads in their friendship because I feel like
they haven't had a huge testing point as of yet.
My hope is that Emily has a big next career step,
because I was really feeling from her in these first
four episodes that she's ready for that next step. She
was so excited to run the Roman office without Sylvie
hovering over her and without being monitored and supervised, and
(40:32):
it just felt like this push and pull. She was
really ready for that step, but it wasn't being given
to her next. So my hope for her is that
something big happens in her career, she gets a little
bit more independence. I don't know if that will be
within agents Grotto or she'll end up starting.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Her own thing.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I don't know what the working visa situation is like
over there, but that is my wish for Emily Cooper.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And I'm sure Mindy will sing again.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Thank you so much for joining us today to deep
dive into the first four episodes of the new season
of Emily in Paris on Netflix. We'll be back in
your feed very soon to unpack the rest of the season.
Our next pod drop will be covering episodes five to eight,
and the one after that will cover the last two
episodes of the season. So make sure you're following the
watch Party feed wherever you get your podcasts so you
(41:15):
don't miss a beat. And if you're loving the pod,
leave us a rating and review. Watch Party is produced
by myself, Manitius Warren, and Georgie Page, with audio production
by Scott Stronik and video production by Michael Kein Bye Bye.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Bye, Mamma. Mia Acknowledges the traditional owners of the land.
We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigor people of
the orination. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
(41:50):
Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.