July 3, 2024 • 21 mins
An article calling Taylor Swift a bad role model has gone viral, and it has tricked Swifties into playing right into the hands of a ‘rage click’ plan. At the same time, there’s a more conforming takeaway from this conversation.
And we’re living in the age of the celebrity NDA, so it’s time to talk about how a seemingly insignificant legal document has contributed to some of the juiciest celebrity stories of our time.
Which celebrities enforce an NDA before a hook-up, which famous men have used it for evil and what do the partners of these stars have to say about it? We’re covering all this on today’s show.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that
this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill, your daily pop
culture fix. I'm EMM Burnham.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And I'm Laura Brodnick, and today we need to talk
about the murky world of celebrity NDAs. So a new
article has come out with some very juicy insights into
how NDAs are changing the celebrity world. And we've also
got some accounts of celebrities to have passed them out
and some reactions to them that have not been very favorable.
So strap in for that.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
But first, there was an article published in Newsweek titled
Taylor Swift is not a good role model. So I'm
not going to explain the entire article because.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think you just did.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's very interestiating, there's not much substance in it, but
I do want to read a quote that will probably
just make you equally angry. In the article, it says,
at thirty four, Swift remains unmarried and childless, the fact
that some might argue is irrelevant to her status as
a role model. But I suggest it's crucial to consider
what kind of example this sets for young girls. Whilst
(01:21):
Swift's musical talent and business acumen are certainly admirable, we
must ask if her personal life choices are ones we
want our sisters and daughters to emulate.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I've got to said, like, this has been out for
a couple of days. The reason you haven't brought it
up is that I didn't want to give this any airtime.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
We've had this conversation not only so many times, but
also from like twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Onwards, Like it's ridiculous, this is such a predictable conversation.
It's like man writes bad thing about Taylor Swift, world
jumps up and down in anger and says man is
bad and no, Taylor Swift is amazing and how dare
you judge women? Which is all a true point. But
they didn't feel anything new or interesting in it, which
is why I didn't want to touch it. But then
you point out that outlets using Taylor Swift for these
(02:05):
rage made articles, and the increase of that is something
that we should talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Just the article alone, Like there's not that many people
who comment on articles on the actual publisher web page.
So that article alone on Newsweek had over five hundred comments.
It was trending on Twitter, everywhere you see it on
social just has so many comments and sub threads and
sub tweets. It's gone absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Viral, which was the point of them running it to
get off the point.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And it's annoying because everything I've seen online about it
has been people saying the same thing. It's mainly women
who are re sharing it, and it's mainly them saying
that this is a ridiculous article, which is kind of
what we're saying as well, like it's crazy, and it
is exactly what Newsweek wanted because they're getting all that engagement,
they're getting all those comments, all that circulation, all the TVs, all.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, exactly, and this is an area that you worked
in for many years, and that audience engagement and so
driving up all that engagement across their social channels is
going to lift all of their other articles and social
posts and pretty much it's going to lift all their companies.
So it's only having a positive effect, which I think
is exactly what Taylor Swift's fans would hate that they're
contributing to this company making money off this rage bait opinion.
(03:17):
It's especially when you think about, like I know so
many people who like specialty music writers, and so many
of them just never feel like they can ever put
their names to anything that's not even like a hate
piece against Taylor Swift, but just a critique of her
music in the way they would critique any other artists.
Because Taylor Swifts fans don't just look at that and
(03:37):
be like, oh, this person disagree with me on this
music and that's fine. Instead, they track that person down,
they try and dox them online, they send them abuse
and hate, and so so many editors I know have
these discussions with their writers when these stories come out
about Taylor Swift at the end of the day that
I either have to not publish the piece or publish
it without a byline, which isn't best practice. But they're like,
I've got this journalist sitting in front of me who
(03:58):
is scared of these fans of Taylor Swift, and therefore
we have to protect them first and foremost, which is
so like so many steps. It's unfortunate, but it's also
so many steps away from this rage baited article of Newsweek.
Who doesn't feel like they're harnessing that anger to use
it in a different way.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, and it is unfortunate that when you're a journalist
you want to be proud of your work, like especially
the opinions you have. We've done it ourselves. Only recently,
we were talking about Taylor Swift's breakup with Joe Alwin
and we were talking about how he's finally talked about
the relationships for the first time, and a clip of
that podcast we posted on the Spill Instagram page, and
(04:36):
I was saying in it how she makes money from
her breakups, which I'm standing by that she does obviously,
she writes songs, and from those songs about her breakup,
she makes money from them. And people went crazy on
our socials for saying that, and it's so true. It
feels like we can't do our jobs. And part of
our jobs is critiquing artists and people who are working
(04:59):
in the film industry and entertainers, and if we can't
do that for everyone, it's actually quite unfortunate that we
feel like we can't do it for Tail Swift.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
One hundred percent. And just to finish off, I don't
want to give any credence this newsweek out to and
this man who we haven't bothered to name because he's unimportant.
It's what he stands for is that if you don't
think that women in their thirties who are unmarried and
childless don't get judged all the time, then that is
a fancasy land I would love to live in, because
what he's saying, like, you're not supposed to say it
out loud, but it's true. It's one hundred percent true.
(05:28):
And as a woman myself who's in my thirties, unmarried,
without kids, if I walk into a room and I
say that to people, even to people who I know
are on podcasts or who write about, you know, a
woman's choice and we shouldn't judge, and who are very vocal,
there is this shade of kind of almost like pity
or just like like trepidation that comes with their face.
And they always go, oh, that's okay, you'll be fine.
(05:50):
You're only you've got time, like they try. And so
I was like, everyone's acting like what this man has
said is so out of the realm of possibility. I'm like,
what he said is what gets said in normal conversation
all the time. It's just that he said about Taylor
Swift when allowed to critique Taylor Swift, even though there
is absolutely nothing wrong with not being married and not
having kids in your third or any age.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
The Cuts have published an investigative peace that I am
so obsessed with. It's called Hush Hush Affair How the
NDA became the defining legal document of our time. So
the piece talks about NDAs in general, especially their rise
in society, like not just for celebrities, but just like
the average Joe. I can't say that I've made someone
(06:36):
sign an NTA.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I've signed so many of them.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
But you also give NDA like energy. I feel like
I do the amount of stories you have about celebrities
that we never name on the podcast, but you've told
me then.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I actually am having a small moment of regret now
because I've signed so many NDAs. Because when you spend
time with famous people, you just have to. I'm always
printing them off on the office computer and signing them
and just leaving them lying around or to go on
step visits, you have to sign an NDA, and I'm
just like, I feel like should be more protective with them.
But I've never asked you to sign one, and I've
told you some stuff. So I'm going to get one
printed after this to or.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Maybe I'll make you sign one for me, and you
can't say the stuff that you've told me that I
can tell you back.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Oh, this is a dangerously just say it. What's going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So NDAs if you don't know our non disclosure agreements,
and majority of them are documents that you have to
sign basically to say that if you're in a room,
you have to like sign saying that whatever you see
here or talk about, you are agreeing that you won't
say out of that room. They have so many different
types ares types for like people in high profile relationships.
So many celebrities if they go to a house party,
(07:40):
they make everyone at the house party sign an NDA
if they see them there. What the piece talks about
is also the rise of NDAs for just average people,
especially with big finance people. They were saying, like finance
bros make their dates sign NDAs. Oh, I believe that
I would believe that too, And you know what, I'd
be down to sign an DA. If I'm signing an NDA,
you have to give me something really juice.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I'm going to pull one out of my next day
just to sort of see the vibes. Because the thing is,
most of my best stories that I whip out on dates.
You know, you have a few stories like these are
crowd pleasers. I know how to tell them really well.
They all involve run in like crazy runs with celebrities.
And I just realized that I just give that information
away for free. She's giving me information dated me. Please
don't put that out there. I'm going to send you
(08:21):
an nd and the mail today.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
You can like make the complaint saying that I signed
so many NDAs and I completely forgot, because this is
what this piece is actually going in about about how
how many NDAs there are circulating around the world. One
of the celebrities they talked about was Taylor Swift till
we discuss and how she has publicly said that she
doesn't like NDAs but also makes so many people's.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Side and you would have to, like, just think, anyone
who comes into her home any capacity, anyone who's backstage
on her toours, anyone that she interacts with in any
way would have to sign an NDA because can you
imagine the information that people want to know about her?
And it wouldn't even be bad stuff. It could be
things like her movements for security reasons, or like things
she likes to cook when she's alone in her kitchen,
(09:02):
Like those are the kind of things that people want
to know and that celebrities protect.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
There was a time where she publicly stated that Scooter
Braun asked her to sign an NDA because that whole
dispute with her music and how he owned her music. Yeah,
and he said that you can buy your music back
off me if you sign an NDA, speaking only positively
about me.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
She's like, I'd rather throw myself into the ocean, and.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
She did not sign that NDA. More recently, though, she
made Ethan Hawke sign an NDA because he appeared in
her latest music video, Fortnite. He couldn't even tell his
teenage daughters that he had appeared in that music video
while he was working.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
On Well again, that makes sense from a business point
of view, but also you've got like not just Taylor Slift,
and I guess we're just using her because there's such
an intensity around here. But you've got not just her,
but like the private lives of like her family, Like
people are so invested in knowing whether or not her
parents are divorced. Don't come for us tree pain with
saying allegedly that sort of stuff, and the people who
work in her inner circle would know, like if her
(09:59):
parents are divorce, like before she breaks up with someone,
any kind of bad blood that she's having, ant witches
at that, any kind of black blood she's having, the
people she will work with, Like, that's all the stuff
that's covered under an NDA. It's not just Taylor Swift,
it's her entire circle that needs protection.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And also just like how much trust we've lost in
society because NDAs have just held it all together. A
really interesting example that the piece talked about was OJ Simpson.
It's been reported that he got each one of his family,
like each member of his family to sign an NDA
before they visited him on his deathbed. And I'm like,
(10:36):
your own family, and also you're dying.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I mean, we obviously know all the allegations against OJ
Simpson and people saying that he allegedly killed his wife
and many other terrible things that people alleged he did
in his life in his career, and he spent such
a huge chunk of his life and so much money
refuting those rumors and stories or suing people for saying it,
or really trying to get people to believe these things
(11:00):
aren't true. So something came out on his deathbed, like
that's how much he cared about this legacy staying intact.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It was insane. I'm like, oh my god, I wish
I could have been a fly on a wall.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You wish he could have been an od sin Since deathbed, I.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Wish I wish I wish I was there. Can you
guess what the number one type of NDA is amongst entertainers?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh god, the number one type of NDA is it
to do with like people they're in the relationships with.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's cosmetic procedures. Of course, Oh my god, of course
is that insane?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yes, now that you're saying that makes so much sense,
because there are some women who go on podcasts at
the Lady Gang podcast and they'll talk about like Keelty
Knight or Becketobin, who are the host on that and
who are also like actresses and presenters in like the
Hollywood world, and they sometimes on their podcast talk about
going into these really high end cosmetic places in LA
because they're very open about what they get done to
(11:49):
their faces. And they'll say on the podcast like, holy hell,
we can't say but you would just be so shocked
of who else was sitting in that waiting room and
who went in before us and we came in afterwards. Exactly.
It's just all these women that we see in our screens,
and men too, men just as much as women may
all point out, which I think is so fascinating, but
that never gets out because the people who work there
are such iron cloud NDAs. And I think also what
(12:11):
you're saying is true is that if you're just another person,
if you're like the person who's parking the car, or
the receptionist or another patient or the guest of another patient,
you also have to sign an NDA.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Imagine just like mining your own business, waiting to go in,
and then it's like a document just land on your
life and runs past you. I'm like, okay, okay, I
get it now, but you're right. Also relations like high
profile relationships, yeah, biggest perpetrators of the NDA, to the
point where apparently, according to the lawyers that this piece
has interviewed as well as Donir, obviously she is anonymous,
(12:42):
but she was also interviewed for this piece. Apparently it's
weird if celebrities don't have NDAs within their relationship. Jamie
Fox makes no one sign an NDA when they're dating him.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
That's because the Church of Scientology did it for him.
This man, he was all like, I'm not saying anything.
If you know what we're talking about, it is because
it's you know, been out for a while. That he
dated Katie Holmes for many, many many years after she
broke up with Tom Cruise. And we don't know for sure,
but the allegation is that for Katie Holmes to kind
(13:15):
of get in her and her daughter Suri away from
Tom Cruise, that she signed a lot of legal documents
and one of them was that she would never date
publicly or speak about dating publicly for a certain amount
of years after she and Tom Cruise divorced, and then
because she was with Jamie Fox, they had to stay
quiet for a certain amount of years. And then the
day that that was up, they were like spotted on
the beach holding hands.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Jamie Fox was like, I've been on the other side.
I'll never make a woman do this.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So yeah, he's like, I just don't want to go
through that again. Oh that kind of makes me like me,
but also like maybe he's just like I kind of
want people to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah. So the piece then goes into how NDAs are
completely taking over our world. For example, a lawyer was
talking about how he had to counsel two parents because
the eleven year old child was on a children's reality
TV show and their child couldn't talk about it, and
he was saying, you're asking a fifth grader to not
tell their friends what they did this summer. So after
(14:06):
the break, we're going through all the weirdest, most wildest
stories from the celebrity world.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And a Birdie boy a body couldn't say yeah. So
very few celebrities talk about signing NDAs outside.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Which is so funny. Thing is, obviously they can't talk about.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah exactly, but even just like on their rand about
why they think that they need to pass them out,
Like you'll have some like a Taylor Swift wrap it
up with Scooter Braun, but that's only because she's so
aware that, like people are very invested in that back
and forth between them, and they're on her side, so
there's gonna be no fallout for that. But then I
think it's mostly celebrities who make their romantic partners sign them,
like Jojo see why not that long ago when she
(14:48):
was on call, her daddy was talking about she gets
her security to vet anyone before they go on a date,
checks and balances, and then they have to sign eighty
NDAs before they can come into like her Jojo Siwa
Palace to hang out with her. But I understand because
she's been such a public figure, you know, you know
that reality TV world where rumors and setups on that
sort of thing, and she's been in that since she
was a small child. She has said it herself, she
(15:10):
doesn't know anything else.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
It must be so weird to be a celebrity who
has to give out an NDA because you can't just
let relationships and even friendships happen naturally. It's literally like, oh,
I think we're about to be friends, so can you
just quickly sign?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, we have to do it first. And that's something
like Raven Simone. You know who Raven Simone is, right,
because so Raven obviously big person for your generation and
for mine, has talked a lot about getting her wife
Miranda to sign a lot of paperwork just two months
into their romance, and Raven was saying, again, I think
it's a child star thing, like this is all She's
no one growing up and she said that she said
(15:48):
to Miranda they're now married, so it worked out. Okay,
there can be love on the other side of an
NDA is what this is telling us is that she
had to say to her, look, I know this takes
the romance out of our relationship. It doesn't feel genuine,
but also we live in Hollywood. And then her wife
is just like, well, it is what it is. So
two months into dating, Well, they can get a lot
of dirt on someone in two months they feel She
signed all these NDAs and then she said her wife,
(16:10):
I've said to her, now you have to prove to
me beyond these pages this is real and who you are.
Don't we marry a long time now? So that's cute.
But another child star is like Britney Spears. God, yes,
that's why so much of that stayed hidden around her
conservatorship in her life, because everyone who came to work
with her or was like involved in her tours, or
was like a babysit of her son that she never
had any contact with. It was her dad who put
(16:32):
together the NDA. It's it was very specific around that
they couldn't talk about Britney Spears. They also couldn't talk
about the condition she was living in or the work
she was being made to do. And that's why so
much of that stayed hidden for such a long amount
of time, is that no one could talk about it legally.
And then, like anything else in Hollywood, especially whant it's
to do with men, there are some really murky, quite
(16:53):
disgusting instances, not to tie them together, but there's so
many rumors there's nothing being proven again because of the
nda that someone like a Harry Styles, if you go
to have a one night stand with him, like on
the way in, you hand over your phone, which also
justin Bieber had people do. I kind of understand that though,
like you can't have someone coming in your home with
the phone if you don't know them, even if it's
a hook up, because just imagine the footage they could
(17:15):
get and where that could go.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But it's also like a safety thing, right, Like imagine
being like a young girl going to this massive mansion
and then you don't even have your phone on you exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And it's also like most of their managers, like these
older men in like the music industry, who are like
give me your phone and also sign this paperwork before
you go in and you've got to think too. I mean,
I know we're kind of projecting a lot on this,
but just because we know like how these things work
a lot of the time, it's like you don't have
time to read through that and like check and balance,
and like I haven't heard any allegations about Harry styles
(17:43):
or anything like that, or even justin Bieber. In this case,
it's more so just like it's such a regimented thing
of like handover phone. This is the talk you get
from the manager before you even go in to have
the hookup, and then here's the NDA and then you're
allowed to go in.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And the NDA has like a lot of language that's
very like terms and conditions, like I have to look
up the meaning of every second word on this page.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, exactly. The thing is like you would want to
tell your friends about it. You can still get friends,
you just can't give a public interview, which in that
case I kind of agree with. It's just unfortunate that
you needed NDA. But someone who used NDAs for evil,
I'm just gonna say, is Charlie Sheen, because in twenty
eighteen it came out because he was HIV positive and
he had a lot of different sexual partners with unprotected
(18:23):
sex and hadn't told them about his condition. And then
when these women were trying to find out more information
for their own medical purposes and trying to hold him
accountable for this. And this is the thing that you
can override an NDA if you were coerced into it
or forced into it, which is what a lot of
these women came out and said happened to them. They
were forced to sign NDAs, and then that all came
(18:43):
out of a legal case later. So that's kind of the
murkier side of it, when your hand is forced and
then it stops you getting compensation getting medical treatment in
this instance because of an NDA.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It's just so wild how like a document can have
so much power to protect not only like celebrities from
their privacy, but also celebrities and like people of power
who are just genuinely doing bad things, yeah, and acknowledging
that they are doing bad things, but making sure it
doesn't ever become like public because they've gotten everyone to
agree that they haven't seen what they've seen. Got.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's such a murky world, isn't it. And like, I
don't feel bad for famous, but I think, out of
all the people in the what I have to feel
bad for famous people who like wealthy and powerful and
in many cases living their dream jobs and not on
the list. But I do think there must be something
very just dehumanizing for them to like never be able
to walk into a room without knowing that someone has
walked ahead of you and got everyone to sign papers,
(19:36):
and that's before they've even met you. It makes you
think of this as such a rogue throwback. It makes
you think of when Hillary Duff was on Gossip Girl,
And do you know that at that episode when she
first starts going to college with Vanessa and then she
walks in because she's playing a famous actress, and she
walks into the dorm room and is like, is that
an NDA? And Vanessa's like, yeah, your manager gave them
out to ever on the floor and She's like, oh
(19:56):
my god, and she like crumples it up. Every time
I think of NDAs I think of I think of
Hillary Duff and Gossip Girl just being so sad that
her whole college life was ruined by the NDA. I'm
here and famous, but also like that's your first introduction
to every other girl who lives on your floor, But
I feel like, I'm sure celebrities who go to college
(20:17):
have to get people to do that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
One hundred percent. I have a question for you, Okay,
do you think Taylor Swift has made her parents sign
an NDA.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
No, I don't think she's made her parents sign an NDA,
but i'd say everyone else in the world. I mean,
it's hard to know, but I feel like, because she's
been in business with her parents for such a long time,
they're essentially like the Taylor Swift Machine is a family
business that her parents are very involved in, so I'm
sure between them they all have legal contracts. But I
don't know what india unless you just threw the NDA,
(20:45):
especially to like her dad, who did like a lot
of management and stuff for her and her mum too,
I guess that's not really riding. There's probably like if
you're signing like ten different documents, maybe there's an NDA
thrown in there. But like maybe when it's an intense
family business like that, it's not as kind of entrenched.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'd make my parents sign an NDA. Oh really, yeah,
yeah they yeafir Yeah, I'm gonna get one for you. So,
if you're interested in reading the entire investigative piece by
the cart We will link that in our show notes.
Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today.
If you remember from Friday's episode, we briefly discussed the
Netflix show America's Sweetheart Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. When I recommended that,
(21:22):
I watched the first three episodes, and then I watched
a lot more and I had some more thoughts which
I have written for Mama Mia. We will link that
piece in the show notes. Also, our daily news podcasts
A Quickie have covered the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. Claire Murphy
did a bit of an investigation into the world of
cheerleading as a whole. We will link that episode in
(21:42):
our show notes as well. Otherwise, we will see you
back here at three pm tomorrow in your podcast speed
see ya fine
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Lan
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that
this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill, your daily pop
culture fix. I'm EMM Burnham.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And I'm Laura Brodnick, and today we need to talk
about the murky world of celebrity NDAs. So a new
article has come out with some very juicy insights into
how NDAs are changing the celebrity world. And we've also
got some accounts of celebrities to have passed them out
and some reactions to them that have not been very favorable.
So strap in for that.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
But first, there was an article published in Newsweek titled
Taylor Swift is not a good role model. So I'm
not going to explain the entire article because.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think you just did.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's very interestiating, there's not much substance in it, but
I do want to read a quote that will probably
just make you equally angry. In the article, it says,
at thirty four, Swift remains unmarried and childless, the fact
that some might argue is irrelevant to her status as
a role model. But I suggest it's crucial to consider
what kind of example this sets for young girls. Whilst
(01:21):
Swift's musical talent and business acumen are certainly admirable, we
must ask if her personal life choices are ones we
want our sisters and daughters to emulate.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I've got to said, like, this has been out for
a couple of days. The reason you haven't brought it
up is that I didn't want to give this any airtime.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
We've had this conversation not only so many times, but
also from like twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Onwards, Like it's ridiculous, this is such a predictable conversation.
It's like man writes bad thing about Taylor Swift, world
jumps up and down in anger and says man is
bad and no, Taylor Swift is amazing and how dare
you judge women? Which is all a true point. But
they didn't feel anything new or interesting in it, which
is why I didn't want to touch it. But then
you point out that outlets using Taylor Swift for these
(02:05):
rage made articles, and the increase of that is something
that we should talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Just the article alone, Like there's not that many people
who comment on articles on the actual publisher web page.
So that article alone on Newsweek had over five hundred comments.
It was trending on Twitter, everywhere you see it on
social just has so many comments and sub threads and
sub tweets. It's gone absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Viral, which was the point of them running it to
get off the point.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And it's annoying because everything I've seen online about it
has been people saying the same thing. It's mainly women
who are re sharing it, and it's mainly them saying
that this is a ridiculous article, which is kind of
what we're saying as well, like it's crazy, and it
is exactly what Newsweek wanted because they're getting all that engagement,
they're getting all those comments, all that circulation, all the TVs, all.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, exactly, and this is an area that you worked
in for many years, and that audience engagement and so
driving up all that engagement across their social channels is
going to lift all of their other articles and social
posts and pretty much it's going to lift all their companies.
So it's only having a positive effect, which I think
is exactly what Taylor Swift's fans would hate that they're
contributing to this company making money off this rage bait opinion.
(03:17):
It's especially when you think about, like I know so
many people who like specialty music writers, and so many
of them just never feel like they can ever put
their names to anything that's not even like a hate
piece against Taylor Swift, but just a critique of her
music in the way they would critique any other artists.
Because Taylor Swifts fans don't just look at that and
(03:37):
be like, oh, this person disagree with me on this
music and that's fine. Instead, they track that person down,
they try and dox them online, they send them abuse
and hate, and so so many editors I know have
these discussions with their writers when these stories come out
about Taylor Swift at the end of the day that
I either have to not publish the piece or publish
it without a byline, which isn't best practice. But they're like,
I've got this journalist sitting in front of me who
(03:58):
is scared of these fans of Taylor Swift, and therefore
we have to protect them first and foremost, which is
so like so many steps. It's unfortunate, but it's also
so many steps away from this rage baited article of Newsweek.
Who doesn't feel like they're harnessing that anger to use
it in a different way.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, and it is unfortunate that when you're a journalist
you want to be proud of your work, like especially
the opinions you have. We've done it ourselves. Only recently,
we were talking about Taylor Swift's breakup with Joe Alwin
and we were talking about how he's finally talked about
the relationships for the first time, and a clip of
that podcast we posted on the Spill Instagram page, and
(04:36):
I was saying in it how she makes money from
her breakups, which I'm standing by that she does obviously,
she writes songs, and from those songs about her breakup,
she makes money from them. And people went crazy on
our socials for saying that, and it's so true. It
feels like we can't do our jobs. And part of
our jobs is critiquing artists and people who are working
(04:59):
in the film industry and entertainers, and if we can't
do that for everyone, it's actually quite unfortunate that we
feel like we can't do it for Tail Swift.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
One hundred percent. And just to finish off, I don't
want to give any credence this newsweek out to and
this man who we haven't bothered to name because he's unimportant.
It's what he stands for is that if you don't
think that women in their thirties who are unmarried and
childless don't get judged all the time, then that is
a fancasy land I would love to live in, because
what he's saying, like, you're not supposed to say it
out loud, but it's true. It's one hundred percent true.
(05:28):
And as a woman myself who's in my thirties, unmarried,
without kids, if I walk into a room and I
say that to people, even to people who I know
are on podcasts or who write about, you know, a
woman's choice and we shouldn't judge, and who are very vocal,
there is this shade of kind of almost like pity
or just like like trepidation that comes with their face.
And they always go, oh, that's okay, you'll be fine.
(05:50):
You're only you've got time, like they try. And so
I was like, everyone's acting like what this man has
said is so out of the realm of possibility. I'm like,
what he said is what gets said in normal conversation
all the time. It's just that he said about Taylor
Swift when allowed to critique Taylor Swift, even though there
is absolutely nothing wrong with not being married and not
having kids in your third or any age.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
The Cuts have published an investigative peace that I am
so obsessed with. It's called Hush Hush Affair How the
NDA became the defining legal document of our time. So
the piece talks about NDAs in general, especially their rise
in society, like not just for celebrities, but just like
the average Joe. I can't say that I've made someone
(06:36):
sign an NTA.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I've signed so many of them.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
But you also give NDA like energy. I feel like
I do the amount of stories you have about celebrities
that we never name on the podcast, but you've told
me then.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I actually am having a small moment of regret now
because I've signed so many NDAs. Because when you spend
time with famous people, you just have to. I'm always
printing them off on the office computer and signing them
and just leaving them lying around or to go on
step visits, you have to sign an NDA, and I'm
just like, I feel like should be more protective with them.
But I've never asked you to sign one, and I've
told you some stuff. So I'm going to get one
printed after this to or.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Maybe I'll make you sign one for me, and you
can't say the stuff that you've told me that I
can tell you back.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Oh, this is a dangerously just say it. What's going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So NDAs if you don't know our non disclosure agreements,
and majority of them are documents that you have to
sign basically to say that if you're in a room,
you have to like sign saying that whatever you see
here or talk about, you are agreeing that you won't
say out of that room. They have so many different
types ares types for like people in high profile relationships.
So many celebrities if they go to a house party,
(07:40):
they make everyone at the house party sign an NDA
if they see them there. What the piece talks about
is also the rise of NDAs for just average people,
especially with big finance people. They were saying, like finance
bros make their dates sign NDAs. Oh, I believe that
I would believe that too, And you know what, I'd
be down to sign an DA. If I'm signing an NDA,
you have to give me something really juice.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I'm going to pull one out of my next day
just to sort of see the vibes. Because the thing is,
most of my best stories that I whip out on dates.
You know, you have a few stories like these are
crowd pleasers. I know how to tell them really well.
They all involve run in like crazy runs with celebrities.
And I just realized that I just give that information
away for free. She's giving me information dated me. Please
don't put that out there. I'm going to send you
(08:21):
an nd and the mail today.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
You can like make the complaint saying that I signed
so many NDAs and I completely forgot, because this is
what this piece is actually going in about about how
how many NDAs there are circulating around the world. One
of the celebrities they talked about was Taylor Swift till
we discuss and how she has publicly said that she
doesn't like NDAs but also makes so many people's.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Side and you would have to, like, just think, anyone
who comes into her home any capacity, anyone who's backstage
on her toours, anyone that she interacts with in any
way would have to sign an NDA because can you
imagine the information that people want to know about her?
And it wouldn't even be bad stuff. It could be
things like her movements for security reasons, or like things
she likes to cook when she's alone in her kitchen,
(09:02):
Like those are the kind of things that people want
to know and that celebrities protect.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
There was a time where she publicly stated that Scooter
Braun asked her to sign an NDA because that whole
dispute with her music and how he owned her music. Yeah,
and he said that you can buy your music back
off me if you sign an NDA, speaking only positively
about me.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
She's like, I'd rather throw myself into the ocean, and.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
She did not sign that NDA. More recently, though, she
made Ethan Hawke sign an NDA because he appeared in
her latest music video, Fortnite. He couldn't even tell his
teenage daughters that he had appeared in that music video
while he was working.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
On Well again, that makes sense from a business point
of view, but also you've got like not just Taylor Slift,
and I guess we're just using her because there's such
an intensity around here. But you've got not just her,
but like the private lives of like her family, Like
people are so invested in knowing whether or not her
parents are divorced. Don't come for us tree pain with
saying allegedly that sort of stuff, and the people who
work in her inner circle would know, like if her
(09:59):
parents are divorce, like before she breaks up with someone,
any kind of bad blood that she's having, ant witches
at that, any kind of black blood she's having, the
people she will work with, Like, that's all the stuff
that's covered under an NDA. It's not just Taylor Swift,
it's her entire circle that needs protection.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And also just like how much trust we've lost in
society because NDAs have just held it all together. A
really interesting example that the piece talked about was OJ Simpson.
It's been reported that he got each one of his family,
like each member of his family to sign an NDA
before they visited him on his deathbed. And I'm like,
(10:36):
your own family, and also you're dying.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I mean, we obviously know all the allegations against OJ
Simpson and people saying that he allegedly killed his wife
and many other terrible things that people alleged he did
in his life in his career, and he spent such
a huge chunk of his life and so much money
refuting those rumors and stories or suing people for saying it,
or really trying to get people to believe these things
(11:00):
aren't true. So something came out on his deathbed, like
that's how much he cared about this legacy staying intact.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It was insane. I'm like, oh my god, I wish
I could have been a fly on a wall.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You wish he could have been an od sin Since deathbed, I.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Wish I wish I wish I was there. Can you
guess what the number one type of NDA is amongst entertainers?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh god, the number one type of NDA is it
to do with like people they're in the relationships with.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's cosmetic procedures. Of course, Oh my god, of course
is that insane?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yes, now that you're saying that makes so much sense,
because there are some women who go on podcasts at
the Lady Gang podcast and they'll talk about like Keelty
Knight or Becketobin, who are the host on that and
who are also like actresses and presenters in like the
Hollywood world, and they sometimes on their podcast talk about
going into these really high end cosmetic places in LA
because they're very open about what they get done to
(11:49):
their faces. And they'll say on the podcast like, holy hell,
we can't say but you would just be so shocked
of who else was sitting in that waiting room and
who went in before us and we came in afterwards. Exactly.
It's just all these women that we see in our screens,
and men too, men just as much as women may
all point out, which I think is so fascinating, but
that never gets out because the people who work there
are such iron cloud NDAs. And I think also what
(12:11):
you're saying is true is that if you're just another person,
if you're like the person who's parking the car, or
the receptionist or another patient or the guest of another patient,
you also have to sign an NDA.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Imagine just like mining your own business, waiting to go in,
and then it's like a document just land on your
life and runs past you. I'm like, okay, okay, I
get it now, but you're right. Also relations like high
profile relationships, yeah, biggest perpetrators of the NDA, to the
point where apparently, according to the lawyers that this piece
has interviewed as well as Donir, obviously she is anonymous,
(12:42):
but she was also interviewed for this piece. Apparently it's
weird if celebrities don't have NDAs within their relationship. Jamie
Fox makes no one sign an NDA when they're dating him.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
That's because the Church of Scientology did it for him.
This man, he was all like, I'm not saying anything.
If you know what we're talking about, it is because
it's you know, been out for a while. That he
dated Katie Holmes for many, many many years after she
broke up with Tom Cruise. And we don't know for sure,
but the allegation is that for Katie Holmes to kind
(13:15):
of get in her and her daughter Suri away from
Tom Cruise, that she signed a lot of legal documents
and one of them was that she would never date
publicly or speak about dating publicly for a certain amount
of years after she and Tom Cruise divorced, and then
because she was with Jamie Fox, they had to stay
quiet for a certain amount of years. And then the
day that that was up, they were like spotted on
the beach holding hands.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Jamie Fox was like, I've been on the other side.
I'll never make a woman do this.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So yeah, he's like, I just don't want to go
through that again. Oh that kind of makes me like me,
but also like maybe he's just like I kind of
want people to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah. So the piece then goes into how NDAs are
completely taking over our world. For example, a lawyer was
talking about how he had to counsel two parents because
the eleven year old child was on a children's reality
TV show and their child couldn't talk about it, and
he was saying, you're asking a fifth grader to not
tell their friends what they did this summer. So after
(14:06):
the break, we're going through all the weirdest, most wildest
stories from the celebrity world.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And a Birdie boy a body couldn't say yeah. So
very few celebrities talk about signing NDAs outside.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Which is so funny. Thing is, obviously they can't talk about.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah exactly, but even just like on their rand about
why they think that they need to pass them out,
Like you'll have some like a Taylor Swift wrap it
up with Scooter Braun, but that's only because she's so
aware that, like people are very invested in that back
and forth between them, and they're on her side, so
there's gonna be no fallout for that. But then I
think it's mostly celebrities who make their romantic partners sign them,
like Jojo see why not that long ago when she
(14:48):
was on call, her daddy was talking about she gets
her security to vet anyone before they go on a date,
checks and balances, and then they have to sign eighty
NDAs before they can come into like her Jojo Siwa
Palace to hang out with her. But I understand because
she's been such a public figure, you know, you know
that reality TV world where rumors and setups on that
sort of thing, and she's been in that since she
was a small child. She has said it herself, she
(15:10):
doesn't know anything else.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
It must be so weird to be a celebrity who
has to give out an NDA because you can't just
let relationships and even friendships happen naturally. It's literally like, oh,
I think we're about to be friends, so can you
just quickly sign?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, we have to do it first. And that's something
like Raven Simone. You know who Raven Simone is, right,
because so Raven obviously big person for your generation and
for mine, has talked a lot about getting her wife
Miranda to sign a lot of paperwork just two months
into their romance, and Raven was saying, again, I think
it's a child star thing, like this is all She's
no one growing up and she said that she said
(15:48):
to Miranda they're now married, so it worked out. Okay,
there can be love on the other side of an
NDA is what this is telling us is that she
had to say to her, look, I know this takes
the romance out of our relationship. It doesn't feel genuine,
but also we live in Hollywood. And then her wife
is just like, well, it is what it is. So
two months into dating, Well, they can get a lot
of dirt on someone in two months they feel She
signed all these NDAs and then she said her wife,
(16:10):
I've said to her, now you have to prove to
me beyond these pages this is real and who you are.
Don't we marry a long time now? So that's cute.
But another child star is like Britney Spears. God, yes,
that's why so much of that stayed hidden around her
conservatorship in her life, because everyone who came to work
with her or was like involved in her tours, or
was like a babysit of her son that she never
had any contact with. It was her dad who put
(16:32):
together the NDA. It's it was very specific around that
they couldn't talk about Britney Spears. They also couldn't talk
about the condition she was living in or the work
she was being made to do. And that's why so
much of that stayed hidden for such a long amount
of time, is that no one could talk about it legally.
And then, like anything else in Hollywood, especially whant it's
to do with men, there are some really murky, quite
(16:53):
disgusting instances, not to tie them together, but there's so
many rumors there's nothing being proven again because of the
nda that someone like a Harry Styles, if you go
to have a one night stand with him, like on
the way in, you hand over your phone, which also
justin Bieber had people do. I kind of understand that though,
like you can't have someone coming in your home with
the phone if you don't know them, even if it's
a hook up, because just imagine the footage they could
(17:15):
get and where that could go.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But it's also like a safety thing, right, Like imagine
being like a young girl going to this massive mansion
and then you don't even have your phone on you exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And it's also like most of their managers, like these
older men in like the music industry, who are like
give me your phone and also sign this paperwork before
you go in and you've got to think too. I mean,
I know we're kind of projecting a lot on this,
but just because we know like how these things work
a lot of the time, it's like you don't have
time to read through that and like check and balance,
and like I haven't heard any allegations about Harry styles
(17:43):
or anything like that, or even justin Bieber. In this case,
it's more so just like it's such a regimented thing
of like handover phone. This is the talk you get
from the manager before you even go in to have
the hookup, and then here's the NDA and then you're
allowed to go in.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And the NDA has like a lot of language that's
very like terms and conditions, like I have to look
up the meaning of every second word on this page.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, exactly. The thing is like you would want to
tell your friends about it. You can still get friends,
you just can't give a public interview, which in that
case I kind of agree with. It's just unfortunate that
you needed NDA. But someone who used NDAs for evil,
I'm just gonna say, is Charlie Sheen, because in twenty
eighteen it came out because he was HIV positive and
he had a lot of different sexual partners with unprotected
(18:23):
sex and hadn't told them about his condition. And then
when these women were trying to find out more information
for their own medical purposes and trying to hold him
accountable for this. And this is the thing that you
can override an NDA if you were coerced into it
or forced into it, which is what a lot of
these women came out and said happened to them. They
were forced to sign NDAs, and then that all came
(18:43):
out of a legal case later. So that's kind of the
murkier side of it, when your hand is forced and
then it stops you getting compensation getting medical treatment in
this instance because of an NDA.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It's just so wild how like a document can have
so much power to protect not only like celebrities from
their privacy, but also celebrities and like people of power
who are just genuinely doing bad things, yeah, and acknowledging
that they are doing bad things, but making sure it
doesn't ever become like public because they've gotten everyone to
agree that they haven't seen what they've seen. Got.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's such a murky world, isn't it. And like, I
don't feel bad for famous, but I think, out of
all the people in the what I have to feel
bad for famous people who like wealthy and powerful and
in many cases living their dream jobs and not on
the list. But I do think there must be something
very just dehumanizing for them to like never be able
to walk into a room without knowing that someone has
walked ahead of you and got everyone to sign papers,
(19:36):
and that's before they've even met you. It makes you
think of this as such a rogue throwback. It makes
you think of when Hillary Duff was on Gossip Girl,
And do you know that at that episode when she
first starts going to college with Vanessa and then she
walks in because she's playing a famous actress, and she
walks into the dorm room and is like, is that
an NDA? And Vanessa's like, yeah, your manager gave them
out to ever on the floor and She's like, oh
(19:56):
my god, and she like crumples it up. Every time
I think of NDAs I think of I think of
Hillary Duff and Gossip Girl just being so sad that
her whole college life was ruined by the NDA. I'm
here and famous, but also like that's your first introduction
to every other girl who lives on your floor, But
I feel like, I'm sure celebrities who go to college
(20:17):
have to get people to do that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
One hundred percent. I have a question for you, Okay,
do you think Taylor Swift has made her parents sign
an NDA.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
No, I don't think she's made her parents sign an NDA,
but i'd say everyone else in the world. I mean,
it's hard to know, but I feel like, because she's
been in business with her parents for such a long time,
they're essentially like the Taylor Swift Machine is a family
business that her parents are very involved in, so I'm
sure between them they all have legal contracts. But I
don't know what india unless you just threw the NDA,
(20:45):
especially to like her dad, who did like a lot
of management and stuff for her and her mum too,
I guess that's not really riding. There's probably like if
you're signing like ten different documents, maybe there's an NDA
thrown in there. But like maybe when it's an intense
family business like that, it's not as kind of entrenched.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'd make my parents sign an NDA. Oh really, yeah,
yeah they yeafir Yeah, I'm gonna get one for you. So,
if you're interested in reading the entire investigative piece by
the cart We will link that in our show notes.
Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today.
If you remember from Friday's episode, we briefly discussed the
Netflix show America's Sweetheart Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. When I recommended that,
(21:22):
I watched the first three episodes, and then I watched
a lot more and I had some more thoughts which
I have written for Mama Mia. We will link that
piece in the show notes. Also, our daily news podcasts
A Quickie have covered the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. Claire Murphy
did a bit of an investigation into the world of
cheerleading as a whole. We will link that episode in
(21:42):
our show notes as well. Otherwise, we will see you
back here at three pm tomorrow in your podcast speed
see ya fine
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Lan
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