April 28, 2025 • 34 mins
On the show today, Greta Gerwig has cast the lead actress in her highly anticipated new movie franchise, and we have some very extreme thoughts about it.
Plus, the world watched as former Dance Moms' star turned musician and social media personality JoJo Siwa fell in love with Australian advocate, actor, and podcast host Kath Ebbs. Then JoJo entered the Celebrity Big Brother UK house and everything changed.
Now we have to talk through the fallout from this event, from JoJo’s alleged new relationship with fellow Big Brother star Chris Hughes, to Kath’s now deleted video announcing the break-up, the stories that have come to light from their friends and co-stars now that they are out of the house and what will happen next.
Em Vernem is co-hosting a new Mamamia podcast. BIZ is rewriting the rules of work with no zero generic advice - just real strategies from women who've actually been there. Listen here.
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Hosts: Laura Brodnik & Em Vernem
Executive Producer: Amy Kimball
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
So much.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
From Mamma Mia.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to this bill, your daily pop culture fix.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm m Burnham and I'm Laura Brodnick and on the.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Show today, we are talking about a very interesting Big
Brother finale. Jojo Siwa and her partner Kath Ebbs have
broken up. And this sounds like a very simple story,
but oh.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
My god, my god, this is pop culture law unfolding.
And I don't say that lightly because I know that
a lot of people's feelings have been hurt and it's
very intense. But I think a lot of people, including myself,
my eyes have been on nothing else since has happened
on Friday nights.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
We have a lot to unpack.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
We have a lot to unpack.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
But first, but first, some movie news that will either
make you really happy or really angry, depending on which
side of the fence you're on. But I'm sure everyone
will have intense feelings. So I'm not sure if you
know this, but greata girlwig off the back of the
huge success of Barbie and being everyone's current favorite filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Karen and Alphanel are just everywhere right exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
They're the two I think people are getting really excited
about the projects they're working on, and once you have
a huge success like Barbie, especially because she wrote and
directed it and was involved in the production, so she
had this opportunity in Hollywood to kind of almost have
what they call like a blank check, like people throwing
opportunity at you and saying, make whatever you want and
will fund it. So she's in that place at the moment,
so I was so excited to see what would she pick.
(01:40):
This incredible filmmaker who before Barbie bought us all these
amazing movies like Frances Harr and then like remade Little
Women with her own spin on it. And she's doing
something maybe potentially controversial for some people. She's remaking The Lion,
the Witch, and the Wardrobe Mania. The Class. Yeah, the
classic books by C. S. Lewis, who a lot of us,
(02:01):
I guess like read the books as kids. I was
obsessed with them, even though now I look back on
them and I'm like, holy hell, that's like some intense
storytelling about like religion and God and punishments through the
Devil In pretty intense.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's very I've never read the books.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
I think you would love that they were.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think when the line which in the order of
the first movie came out, that was like my generation.
Remember we all started eating Turkish delights. Yeah, we all
hated it. It was just like every kid and their
grandparents are eating Turkish.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh you're talking about the movies that came out like
over t Yeah. So before that there was the BBC series.
That's what I was raised, and it's people in costumes
playing like the animals and stuff, and like an Aslan
that was just like a talking head puppet but incredible.
So that's what I was raised on the movies.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
But the movies didn't finish.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
No, that's the weird thing, because the BBC series goes
all the way to the Silver Chair, whereas the big
budget blockbuster series petered out after I think Voyage of
the Dawn Treader because people watching, Yeah you probably missed it,
most people did.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
But the books go quite fast.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So apparently Greta Gerwig is going all the way to
the sixth novel of the series, The Magician's Nephew. But
obviously everyone's been real intense about who she was going
to cast in the movie, especially the role of the
White Witch, because that is iconic. There was a bit
of chat that Meryl Street was going to play Aslan,
and I'm like, not angry, I don't know, you look
(03:23):
really shocked.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, this is gonna make me sound so anti feminist.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
But not a woman's job is that we gonna say?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Aslan to me has always been like a father figure. Yeap,
Like I always picture my grandfather as Aslain.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I'm gona be really nice.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Can she be my grandfather? If anyone never she did?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Would range that so much, just like, what's the one
job a woman can't do?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Play as in the adaptation of the line the Witch,
I can't do that. They can do anything exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So the casting news came out over the weekend and
I've got to say, my heart, I hope I'm wrong.
My heart sunk a little bit because it's British actress
Emma Mackie, who a lot of people would know from
sex education.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yes, a lot of people also know her as being
Mugger Robbie's exact look alive.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, that's so funny because yeah, that's been the conversation
for years that she and Margot Robbie look so similar
that they get mistaken. There's been photos of Emma that
are run with Margot Robbie's name under Actually Emma's been
chased through the streets by paparazzi thinking that she's Margo.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I thought it was Margot Robbie in Sex Education for
the first three episure.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Really yes, you're like, man, this is a strange girls like.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I actually thought it was like an.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Old show because you know how they actually have quirky
like costume design. Yea insect, I thought it was an
old show. Wow that had they just resurfaced Netflix.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
It's so funny because Emma Mackie. There's a lot of
headlines around about Emma and Greta reuniting, but she was
only Emma was only in Barbie for a second yea.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
A lot of like A listers were in Barbie for
like one hot mass.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Everyone just wanted a cameo like John Cena was like,
please come to the Mr Man like respect. But Emma
was supposed to have a much bigger role because they
were bringing her in to be like Margo Robbie's Barbie doppelganger.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So you have.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
All the Barbies were different, so she was going to
play a Barbie that was identical to Margo Robbie. And
they're like, this will be so funny because it's like
a great pop culture reference. But then Margo was saying afterwards,
once they bought Emma in dressed in the same they
stood next to each other. Once they stood next to
each other, they didn't look alike at all.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So the joke was, actually didn't look alike in the movie.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
No, So they just kept Emma in there in like
a supporting barbie cameo role, but they had to nix
her whole storyline where she was is this like a
make good?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Did?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
She like, I'm so sorry we had to cut you
out of Barbie, But do you want to be the
white Witch in Nania?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think it would be make good? Because no, I'm
I actually do because that movie was massive. You imagine
like knowing that your big role was cut completely from
a movie of that side. Yeah, and I are a witch.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I mean, look, I'm gonna trust the Process series. I
think it's a movie. So each book is going to
be a movie. It's and there's like so many six Yeah,
oh gosh, Well, I mean, there's a lot of story
to tell, and like the big film adaptation dropped the
ball after Voyager the Dawn Trader and didn't pick up
any of the other great stories that came afterwards. It
goes right till the kids come back when they're adults
(06:00):
and they become children. Except for Susane rap spoilers, Sorry,
she doesn't die. She just doesn't believe in Nannia anymore.
It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. So I
think it is going to go all the way with that,
which kind of just takes her out of making anything
else from going to say at least ten years potentially,
which is interesting. So I don't know, people look excited
about Emma. I just feel that that's such an iconic
(06:21):
specific role it needed a character actress, and I'm not
sure about her also being so you wanted.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It to be.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I mean maybe that's where we had to get Merril
Litt or something like that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
We had Away someone we.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Were just getting Anne Hathaway for every cheesy role.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I don't think Anne Hathaway has that pure evilness in
her soul.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
That's what you need.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
You need an actress that just has pure or can
at least do that very evil kind of Michelle Peiffer, Yeah, potentially,
Michelle Peiffer does evil really well, like look at her
od Hairspray. Anyway, that's all the casting updates we have
for the Nannia movies at the moment.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
We'll keep you posted. I guess we'll circle back in
ten years.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
To see years putting your diary see this what So
late on Friday night, a bit of a story started
sweeping the world, and that is because a big Brother
UK came to an end with its big Fana.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
They crowned a winner. We don't care about that.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, Like both of us were working the Friday shift
and I'm so glad this happened after we locked.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I mean it would have been great for numbers on
the day off for the company very late at night.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
It was extra great for us.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, the two of us in charge and what could
go wrong? So, yes, this happened on Friday night. And
why we were so invested is that there had been
this huge story playing out on the screen with Jojo Siwa.
So if you know what to cross that name, Jojo
Siwa was one of the stars of the TV show
Dance Moms, a wildly horrifically problematic show entertaining as hell.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
She invented gay pops, yes, she did so.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
She she was so cute, she was so little on
that show.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
She came in. She always got you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Know, a high pony, yeah, and she had a brand
the moment she came in. And she came in when
the show was already crazy popular, so she and her mum, Jesslyn,
came in dance mum Jesselyn came in ready to build
a brand. Now JoJo's six, so I'm assuming that she
wasn't completely complicit in this, but she was, you know,
really gorgeous little girl, huge personality, wore a massive big
(08:15):
bow and her hair always like done up like crazy.
And then she became so wildly popular, probably at that time,
the most popular off that TV show, and she spawned
her empire with like her series and her music, current
her albums and her touring and her bow company like
crazy crazy Crazy grew up in the spotlight, came out
I think in like her late teens early twenties. Obviously
(08:36):
got a lot of backlash from people, and it has
been like a really outspoken advocate of the gay and
queer community since then, so that's obviously all happening. And
then at the end of last year it seemed that
she was dating an Australian called Kathebs.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yes, Kath Ebs is an influencer and an advocate in Australia,
but I feel like people started to know about them
more when they started dating Jojo.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, so I think Kath had like quite a big
following in Australia as a presenter and an actor and yes,
an advocate and all these sort of things. So I
was already following them, was following Kath but not Jojo
before this happened. Oh yeah, well just because they're Australia,
whereas Jojo, like I was aware of Obviously, I've like
know a lot about Jojo as I just like recounted
her entire career, but I wasn't her target market, so
(09:22):
I wasn't following her on any platform. But then photos
started coming out of them, like at a petrol station
together and like having lunch and BONDI and all these things,
and I was like, Wow, what Kath Ebbs and Jojo
Sie were like and like? And Jojo Sea was like
an adult now she's twenty one.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like, yes it was. And she did that very famous
Miley Cyrus thing where she wanted a complete and we
talked about this on the spill. She did a complete
rebrand of her I guess cutie, colorful, high pony like,
lots of sparkles, vibe into like punk rock. Basically, she
dressed up as Kiss to the iHeart but.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I didn't know who Kiss was.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Very famously you don't fine, fine, fine, we don't judge
here exactly, and had this and released Karma, which has
to be said, a banger of a song, banger and yeah,
had this huge pop culture moment. But when those paparazzi
it just started coming out of Kath and Jojo together
in Australia, they just looked at they was having this
beautiful time, like hanging out and bondying, going to lunches
and like filming each other, like getting petrol and all
(10:20):
this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I felt like a very like first adult relationship.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just kinel like you were seeing
these two people like I don't know when they started
getting romantic, but it seemed like you saw them kind
of find each other have that wild attachment when you
meet someone that you just click with so instantly, And
because they both have such huge social media presences and
they're both very public people, they would like film each
other a lot and share videos all that sort of stuff.
And so it wasn't until January they confirmed that we're
(10:46):
in a relationship. And Kath was over in LA with
Jojo a lot, and Jojo would be in Australia and
they would post all these beautiful videos and.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I get great points for those flights.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, that's the real takeaway from me date someone overseas
get the wall. Yeah, well, I mean I was watching
them together, like they were together for the La fires,
like Kather's and JoJo's home, and they were having to
like pack up for that. And then you saw Jojo
be here in Australia and like they would this thing
where the Cathols like picked them up from the airport
and then they go back to the hotel room and
be covered in balloons and flowers and be like kissing
(11:17):
each other. And they gave this interview to People Magazine
on one of their red carpet moments, talking about being
so in love, and Jojo was like, this is the
first like proper mature, committed relationship I've been in and
I'm so happy. So they were like they eat couple
for a long time since the start of this year.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I'd say, yeah, but it feels like they weren't even
together for that long.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well I think officially they'd set us, told us since
January and.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So okay, they've been together for like four months. Yeah,
but it feels like they've been together for.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Well four months in like public time is a lot
where you've been watching everything about their lives unfold for
four months.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So we could say that they have been in a
relationship for maybe a year. That too much pushing it.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
No, I'd say, especially you know when you go really
intensely into those like where you're kind of all in
from the start. Like I think time is less relevant
to the amount of commitment that they had that they
were spending all their time together. And also, as we
know now, there was like talk of marriage behind their
scenes and everything, so they were all in really serious.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Okay, So this is where it gets a bit murky. Yeah,
because after they announced their relationship, Jojo disappears. She goes
into the Celebrity Big Brother UK house. We have talked
about Celebrity Big Brother this year before, especially talking about
Mickey Rourke. I don't want to bring it up because
it's too much. We talked about it. We will put
(12:34):
a link in our show next. But basically he was
saying some not only homophobic comments towards Jojo, but also
quite dangerous comments.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah and I'll turn you in, being really aggressive and
all those yeah awful things, awful awful.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And during that you see a lot of the other
house members kind of stick up for Jojo, especially one
person named Chris Hughes. Now, Chris Hughes is a UK guy.
He was on Love Island and he also dated Jesse
Nielsen from Little Mix. He has this kind of aura
of being a who chases fame, Like that's kind of
(13:13):
like what society knows I'm about. You won't read this
in headlines, what you'll see it on red sides. That's
what I'm going to say, you know, That's what I'm
talking about, bring you the inside, the inside scoop, to
the point where he was even confronted about it on
Big Brother in the Big Brother Room as if like
he's only friends with Jojo because he wants her for
a fame, and he broke down crying, saying no, I
really value this friendship. That's not why I'm friends with her. Anyway.
(13:37):
After all this during Big Brother, which I only found
out it's actually filmed live. Yeah, so they're in that
house and they're loved ones and all of us are
watching them in real time interact with each other in
this house. What was happening in this house is that
you see Chris and Jojo get very close I would
say closer than friends.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yeah, I mean it.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Does look that way. There's normal way to spin it.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Is there to the.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Point where even if they were in a relationship and
I saw some of the stuff I saw in the
clips with Big Brother, I'd be like, that's too much.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, and you're a relationship, and we should say that
before Jojo went into the house, she had been with
Kath and there was this big kind of send off.
I mean, I'm sure there's much more behind the scenes,
but publicly we saw them have this moment of like,
JoJo's going to do this big, amazing thing, and Kath
was talking about being so proud of her. And also
Kath was like live posting all the time about Jojo
being in the house and like resharing clips of her
(14:32):
and talking how proud that they were of her, And
when the Mickey Rock stuff went down, Kath was like
guns are blazing defending her, standing up for her, posting
about her, and just like, you know completely, like that's
the love of my life and I've got their back.
And then as the Chris thing started to like really
become so prominent, that's when Kath stopped posting about Big Brother,
(14:54):
And that's when I think people got even more suspicious
about what was happening.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So some of the stuff that was happening with Chris
for the longest period of time during Big Brother, it
was all online speculation and like they're all big comments
on TikTok, comments on Reddit threads, comments on Instagram, or
people going this is not a Tonic relationship. However, no
one confirmed anything. You would see clips of them spooning
in bed, yeah, you'd see clips of them romantically dancing,
(15:20):
just the two of them.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh yeah, and that's towards the end, so you would
see building by know the scene you're talking about where
they're dancing towards it's like one of the final nights
they'd bee Brother house and they do the dirty dancing
lift and he's toiling her around, and there's the difference
between people in Australia are watching this look so aghast
because we're still all in on the Caf and Jojo
relationship and shipping them. And as much as you can
(15:42):
say it's weird that people get caught up in other
people's romances, like we just do. That's the world we
live in with like celebrities and things like you see
people a couple that you'd love and you become invested
in their love story and so we're all in that
and being like what the hell. But a lot of
people in the UK who didn't know as much about
like they knew Jojo had a partner because she would
talk about Caf in the house a lot, even while
the other housemates. At one stage, there's clips where Jojo
(16:04):
and Chris are like hugging and like patting each other's
faces and talking about how close they are, and then
there's also seem there in the hot hub together. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I couldn't even watch the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
It looks like some intense stuff is happening, and while
the other housemates is like, your girlfriend is going to
be so angry, and he's.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Like, you two better fuck or get out Yeah. I
was like okay, and then.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Just like yay, and it was like your girlfriend's going
to put fists up or something like that, and JoJo's like, no, no,
she'll be fine with it. So then you're thinking, like, oh,
like maybe they are just I don't know. I've just
been so naive through this whole thing. Can I just say,
because up until like nearly Friday, I was like, maybe it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Well, you're like it, that's how the kids do it.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
But he's like in his early thirties, she's twenty one,
and so yeah, up until kind of Friday, I was
still holding out hope that maybe it just was this
like overly touchy feely friendship because I haven't actually kissed
or said we love each other or said anything like that.
There's a lot of speculation because the whole thing about
Big Brother that's been in our screens for decades is
(17:01):
that a lot of contestants can we spar under the
blankets because you can take your mic off in there
and like they're under the blanket, you can't see, or
you can write on each other's hand, and that's how
like a of relationships in different houses have started and
because Jojo and Chris spent so much time under that
douna sleeping together, or you could hear them giggling and talking,
but you couldn't. You will always hear what they were saying.
There is like a lot of speculation that they had
(17:22):
their relationship talk under the blanket, Like, we don't know,
but I was still kind of holding out hope that
maybe it was just a bit of our intense friendship.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Maybe it still is. We don't know. It's not. Oh okay,
so naive over here. I'm like, maybe they're just really
good friends.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So what happened? Like the final thing that we see
from Big Brother is the big finale. Jojo came third,
Chris came six. I don't really understand how you win
Big Brother.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It's a public vote. Oh, it's a public vod so
we don't care about that. It's like kind of like
the Hunging Games.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
We see Jojo and Chris have this big emotional farewell
to each other, and she says a lot of interesting things.
It's a big goodbye. They thank each other, they tell
each other how much they love each other and their friendship,
and she also says that she's just very confused. Yeah,
and he's like confused about what, and she's like just
things in general. It's weird, right, Still, all of this
(18:19):
is still very much online speculation of all of us
watching this and then making up our own theories in
our head if this is a relationship or is it
just platonic. Then we get a video from kath Ebbs.
It's now been deleted, but it's been reposted everywhere, and
this is what they said.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I honestly feel so numbed out right now and so
disorientated that I feel like the only thing I have
to do to place this situation is to finally address
it after two weeks of sitting back watching certain things
(18:58):
unfold and not being able to get any clarity from
the person that it involved. Who was I guess like
in a odd way like I don't know if you can,
I don't. I haven't processed enough to if you'd want
to call it love bombing or whatever, But it seems
to me I have experienced a version of that, being
(19:20):
told that I'm the love of someone's life, being asked
to marry them before this social experiment, being adored throughout
behind closed doors, being hurt by what I saw, but
wanting to work through it and have a conversation and
(19:44):
get clarity and you know, to be met with being
I guess further humiliated in a weird wait, that's more
of a feeling. I don't know if it's fact, but
I feel further humiliated in the fact that the story
goes right now. In the last eight hours or whatever,
(20:05):
I have flown. I flew here and I went to
the live show to show up for my partner and
support them in their experience and then obviously later on
address my feelings of like hurt and like work through
them like all relationships do. But before I could even
(20:29):
get back to.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
The hotel, I.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's actually crazy, went to the after party with with
my I guess now X crazy thing to say, and
was dumped in the party. I was told that there
are confused feelings there. Do with that what you.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Will, Okay, So to kind of recap, kath Ebbs in
Australia flies eighteen hours to the UK to go to
the Big Brother finale after party to support their partner Jojo.
At the after party, kath Ebb says that Jojo broke
up with them and they were there to kind of
(21:15):
support their partner and yet they got broken up with
They also said that Chris was in the next room.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That was a very pointed thing to say in that video.
I thought, like, really bringing like he's in the mix, Like,
we obviously don't know to the extent of what's happening
between these three people and Jojo and Quis, but the
fact that they mentioned him and that he was in
the room in like a hotel suite or something like
that is just really heightening the whole story.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I think people have been split in the middle
with this story. In particular, there are the people who
are watching and you can see all these comments on
TikTok of all the clips of Jojo and Chris together,
people shipping them hard. Yeah, like people love this idea.
It's also important to point out that in the house,
Jojo came out as queer. Previously she had come out
(22:02):
as a lesbian, and she kind of had this moment
in the house which was actually quite beautiful of her
having this realization about herself saying no, I'm queer, and
people are running with that to say that because of
her admitting that she's quicks because she now likes Chris,
which I don't think is the right.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Thing to do.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I think that's getting into like a really messy situation
where you're bringing someone's like sexuality and labels into this
really intense thing of like because she said this, she
must mean this, and it must mean this that sort
of thing. I think that's more of a fluid like
conversation and regardless of all this happening, because she could
have said that in the house and then could have
had no accusations of cheating or anything like that, I
(22:38):
think it's totally separate. I'm just thinking like in terms
of when I was watching that video obviously, like the
scale of this, like having the whole world be so
intense on watching this, but just putting yourself in kath
eb shoes for a second, of like getting on that
flight from Australia to the UK, which you want to
a bitch of a flight.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
It's long, it's bad when you're going on a nice
holiday and.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Also going excited to see your partner.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I don't even know if they were excited because of
the clip, because they have been watching this unfold worldwide
and watching the world like fall imagine like falling in
love with someone that you think is your person and
having the talks about getting married and everything, and you've
publicly declared all this to the world, like the world's invested.
And then that person who was your person goes on
a reality TV show and whether or not they had
(23:21):
some sort of an affair, it looks that way. It's
the entire world. So there's an extra pressure of like
the eyes on you. And then you get on a
fly and you fly that bitch of a flight to
the UK to go to the event to celebrate this
TV show that has ripped your life apart. Because you
watch your partner Big Brother's on early every night, so
it's like every night live streams, and so much of
the show was dedicated to Jojo and Curs. I even
(23:42):
couldn't even tell you the other people on that show,
Like my entire feed has just been filled with them.
And as I said before, the UK audience in particular
very invested in this love story. I've seen people calling
them like they're like, it's Jack and Rose from the Titanic.
They come from different worlds and they're making it work.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
And I was like, what it's.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
All because you see one hot tub scene, Yeah, I
mean that Jack and Rose.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Or him spinning her around the dance floor and they're
laughing and like all this like Romeo and Juliet, like
everyone's very invested in this love story. And you see that,
and you still get on the plane and you go
into the party knowing that every single person that room
is looking at you and being like, oh, like I
know what's going to happen. And then that partner says
to you, I don't want to be with you anymore,
like I can't even imagine. And then also what you've
(24:22):
got to like then fly the twenty five hours back
to Australia.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And you also have to consider the layers of fame
in this situation. Both Chris and Jojo are very very
famous people, like millions of followers both of them. Kath
is famous here in Australia, but in comparison, they're nowhere
near as famous as Jojo and Chris. So when you
put it all together, you're not only seeing like Jojo
(24:47):
seemingly quote unquote cheat on her partner, but then you're
also kind of just brushing that partner under the rug
because you don't really know them, so like, oh, well,
who cares about their feelings? And then they come back
to Australia where they're so so famous, so all everyone
wants to talk about is their reaction to this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, exactly, And that's something I thought was interesting in
a video that Abby Chatfield posts about the situation, so
Ad he's really good friends with Cath. I mean again,
I just know this from an outside like watching their
content over the years. They hang out a lot, their
good friends. And then Abby posted like screenshots of it,
like looked like a FaceTime group call with some of
their friends and Cath to Instagram today being basically like,
(25:26):
you know, we're hearing the full story and oh my god,
this is awful. And in the comment she's replying to
people being like this is awful for Cath. And then
she did a big TikTok video talking about the side
of it that she thinks people have missed, which is
just like how public it is, and it's interesting kind
of hearing from someone within the friend group who has
a lot more information than just like people like us
(25:47):
who were just watching like clips from the outside. Because
Abby was saying that they had met Jojo a few times,
you know, because they're dating their friend. Abby says Jodo
seemed really mature, but she now knows that isn't true,
which I thought was kind of like, you know, an
obvious statement given what's happening. But then she also talked
about she didn't share any of Kat's private information or
anything like that, but she just wanted to say that,
like it's a level of like higher humiliation almost because
(26:10):
of like how public it was. And she's like Jojo
has been raised in the spotlight. Her mum monetized her
since she was a tiny little child. She is a
rage beta, Like she's talented, but she's also a rage beta.
She has built a career off like big TikTok moments
and viral videos and all that sort of stuff, so
she knows how to like build a story and build momentum,
and that she's done that purposely in the house without
(26:32):
kind of thinking about how it would affect a partner
on the outside, because she's going for the headline to
an extent, like not saying that she's like done this
all for show, but saying like she would know how
big the momentum this is going in the background, Like
she's not name enough to think that that story would
unfold in the house, and it wouldn't be the main
storyline from the show.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And I feel like this story is going to follow
kath everywhere. Yeah, so long, but much longer. It will
follow them for much longer than I'll follow Jojo.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Well, that's the thing too.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
What I feel is probably happening for kath EV's at
the moment is that they would be getting just inundated
with media requests and interview requests, and there's heaps of
publications that whenever you have to, like we do if
we put someone on Mamma Me and we reach out
to them and be like, Hi, you know, would you
like to comment, We're running the story so that like
they're not blindsided, But there would also be so many
like radio stations and TV stations and everyone that would
(27:22):
be like just hounding Cath at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Even TikTok is of Australian TikTok is and there's a
lot of them. Yeah, my whole feed every second TikTok
is just people giving their two cents on this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, exactly. It looks like they're still in UK at
the moment. I'm assuming they'd be come back to Australia.
I don't know but I'm assuming they come back to
Australia too. Those yeah come back look after you. I'm
assuming when they come back to Australia. Our paparazzi culture
isn't as big here, but we know from a really
big celebs that it does really intensify when there's a story,
and so I'm sure they will be followed everywhere because
everyone want to have like photos of Jojo Cyx, you know,
(27:58):
looks downcast walking through the streets of Bondaine. It's like
they're probably just going to get a coffee, but it
doesn't matter because like you just get this one shot
and then it gets pushed out there.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
And at the same time, for me when I go
get my coffee, yeah, I look.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Downcast all the time, and I've been.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Dumped by five people in the same day.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I'm her closed to break up and it's just how
my hair looks when I walk around my neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
So there's that.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
The other side of it is that the Jojo and
Chris story is really heating up, we should say. When
they came out of the house, they both said this
is just a friendship. It's really Britonic.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
They love the word, you know, when you like have
one word in your head and you say it over
and over again. If you watch that interview, the amount
of times I said the word platonic, it's so funny,
and someone who said to them platonic over and over again.
But they are very very close friends. They were spotted
playing tennis together.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
So that was a big thing from the house.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Again, I've never watched Celebrity UK, Big Brother or any
of these kind of shows.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
The law I know about this.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Show win Big Brother, do you reckon? Yeah, I think
i'd either win or be the first to go.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, maybe they'll vote you because they're so scared of you.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
No, I don't worry just because you either love me
or hate me. You could do it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Flex Mammy. Do you remember how she got out because
she was just so obsessed with talking and Big Brother
She kept going into the room and they found that.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So but again, that's a good example of some one
who's beloved by everyone, like everyone loves Flexmami, and then
goes in she goes into Big Brother house and it
just didn't translate, and it's like, how does that even happen? Yeah? Literally,
but yeah, So the amount of law I know about
UK big brother, though, thank you for saying that. Is
that there was so much of like this build up
of what their friendship was going to be from the outside,
Like they made this date like the first Sunday we
(29:29):
get out of the house, we're gonna go play tennis together.
And now there's all these shots of them going into
a country club to play tennis together. Jojo and Chris.
Either they are just friends because we still don't know,
and they were like trying to show the world, Look,
we're just friends playing tennis. All they've jumped completely into
this relationship. They were like breadcrumbing the whole time.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Well, they might not know themselves, like they might not
have had a relationship conversation. Maybe they're in a situationship,
and we all know when you're in a situationship, you
don't really mention you're in a situationship because I jinxes everything.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, exactly. And again, I mean he's just a bit
of a fuck boy, isn't he.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah. I mean, look again, I'm only labeled.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I've only known about this man's existence for like three
weeks until I became very invested in this whole thing.
But that is the word on the street from people
who have followed him for a long time that he
is kind of like that. The other thing is to
like they're not posting heaps of photos or anything of
each other yet, but Chris's friends were posting like a
group dinner and he's at it and Jojo is like
(30:25):
sitting next to him with her arm around him and
like cuddling at the table.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Okay, again, could be platonic. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I'm not a big hugger, but you don't just like my
friend's friend's dinner.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, and sit next to each other and hug through
the whole dinner. It's quite intense.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
They are doing a sit down interview together in the
next twenty four hours Jojo and Chris like a morning
show in the UK, So I think that'll come, but
I don't together. Yeah, yeah, together. I mean, obviously we'll
report back once it happens at the time of recording.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
And I just like the maake out during the interview.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I mean, aren't they came so close to making out.
There's allegations that Big Brother cut the kissing scenes between them,
but as if they're going to do that, they would
have been like kiss kiss from those you know, like
you can walk I don't know if you've been too
the Big Brother houses like in Australia and stuff. But
you walk through corridor you haven't well, I know.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
You have for work, yeah, but don't talk to me
like I'm also on your level. I don't know if
you've been to the Oh, you know, I haven't been
doing Brother House.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I don't know that you can go to it to
I don't know what you do in your spare time.
Maybe you wait, wait, you know everything about it? So true? Okay,
so when you go to the Big Brother you walk
through there's all these corridors in the house where it's
like you're like glass that you see and there's heaps
of people behind there. So you're like if people are
having a conversation and there's always a piece of glass
next to them, there's like fifteen people on the other
(31:43):
side of it who are listening.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, So I can just imagine the whole time they're
like the people behind the glass who were next to
Jojo and Chris's heads. The whole time, there would have
been heaps of people behind that wall, behind it, not just.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Like cameras set up in the house, you.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Know, there's cameras set up everywhere, but there's like walk
throughs with the double sided glass, so like when they're
looking in the glass mirror, like it's like mirrors, but
it's you can it's like being a detective's office.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Like you can see that.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
So I know the UK one's different, like a kind
of lips and just someone there's like fifteen people, no exactly,
Well you can stand there and like just be in
the midst of everything. That's what the producers do, and
so I can just imagine those people being like kiss kiss, kiss,
because like the ratings would have been through the roof,
and I think like the show did pick up international
momentum because of this. So that's the other thing, and
(32:27):
that's also the hard thing for kath Eb's is that
this has become like this worldwide news story, like it's
the front page of like people daily mail.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Because they're not only going through a public breakup, but
they're also going through the public watching their partner fall
out of love with them. Yeah, oh I hate it.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It's yeah, it's a different level I think of a
breakup than most people couldn't even comprehend, like going through
a breakup and then having that extra layer on it.
And again it's everyone romanticizing their relationship. Like I've seen
a few people sort of say, like mostly Australian people
commenting on people who are friends with kath Bey like
Joe John Chris will never say they're in a relationship
because they know they'll be hated, and it was like
(33:08):
they will not be hated.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
They will be a small group of people.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
But the bigger fandom, like the international fandom I've obsessed with,
so invested in their relationship because people feel like they
watch them fall in love on camera, and that's the
thing that people crave most in reality TV, Like they
crave a relationship to be very invested in and to
watch it happen in front of them. And that's what
they think happened. They think that she's kind of found
the love of her life, this Prince Charming and he's
(33:33):
like this reformed bad boy who was a fuck boy,
but she's changed him. Like that's the narrative from them
being in a reality show for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
It's too much for me.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, So I mean as much as we been talking
about it, obviously is like an kicky yeah yeah, and
a lot of kind of empathy for Catheb's going through
that and the whole situation, and I guess we'll see
what they say in this interview. One unfolds in the
next couple of weeks, and JoJo's only put up one thing,
one main story since she left the house since that
she's desperate to stay in the UK, that's what she
(34:04):
wants to do, so I think the story is just
going to keep on going.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today.
The Spill is produced by Amy Kimball with sound production
by Scott Stohnick. And we'll be back here on your
podcast feed at three pm tomorrow. Bye Bye,
So much.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
From Mamma Mia.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to this bill, your daily pop culture fix.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm m Burnham and I'm Laura Brodnick and on the.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Show today, we are talking about a very interesting Big
Brother finale. Jojo Siwa and her partner Kath Ebbs have
broken up. And this sounds like a very simple story,
but oh.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
My god, my god, this is pop culture law unfolding.
And I don't say that lightly because I know that
a lot of people's feelings have been hurt and it's
very intense. But I think a lot of people, including myself,
my eyes have been on nothing else since has happened
on Friday nights.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
We have a lot to unpack.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
We have a lot to unpack.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
But first, but first, some movie news that will either
make you really happy or really angry, depending on which
side of the fence you're on. But I'm sure everyone
will have intense feelings. So I'm not sure if you
know this, but greata girlwig off the back of the
huge success of Barbie and being everyone's current favorite filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Karen and Alphanel are just everywhere right exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
They're the two I think people are getting really excited
about the projects they're working on, and once you have
a huge success like Barbie, especially because she wrote and
directed it and was involved in the production, so she
had this opportunity in Hollywood to kind of almost have
what they call like a blank check, like people throwing
opportunity at you and saying, make whatever you want and
will fund it. So she's in that place at the moment,
so I was so excited to see what would she pick.
(01:40):
This incredible filmmaker who before Barbie bought us all these
amazing movies like Frances Harr and then like remade Little
Women with her own spin on it. And she's doing
something maybe potentially controversial for some people. She's remaking The Lion,
the Witch, and the Wardrobe Mania. The Class. Yeah, the
classic books by C. S. Lewis, who a lot of us,
(02:01):
I guess like read the books as kids. I was
obsessed with them, even though now I look back on
them and I'm like, holy hell, that's like some intense
storytelling about like religion and God and punishments through the
Devil In pretty intense.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's very I've never read the books.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
I think you would love that they were.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think when the line which in the order of
the first movie came out, that was like my generation.
Remember we all started eating Turkish delights. Yeah, we all
hated it. It was just like every kid and their
grandparents are eating Turkish.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh you're talking about the movies that came out like
over t Yeah. So before that there was the BBC series.
That's what I was raised, and it's people in costumes
playing like the animals and stuff, and like an Aslan
that was just like a talking head puppet but incredible.
So that's what I was raised on the movies.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
But the movies didn't finish.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
No, that's the weird thing, because the BBC series goes
all the way to the Silver Chair, whereas the big
budget blockbuster series petered out after I think Voyage of
the Dawn Treader because people watching, Yeah you probably missed it,
most people did.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
But the books go quite fast.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So apparently Greta Gerwig is going all the way to
the sixth novel of the series, The Magician's Nephew. But
obviously everyone's been real intense about who she was going
to cast in the movie, especially the role of the
White Witch, because that is iconic. There was a bit
of chat that Meryl Street was going to play Aslan,
and I'm like, not angry, I don't know, you look
(03:23):
really shocked.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, this is gonna make me sound so anti feminist.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
But not a woman's job is that we gonna say?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Aslan to me has always been like a father figure. Yeap,
Like I always picture my grandfather as Aslain.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I'm gona be really nice.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Can she be my grandfather? If anyone never she did?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Would range that so much, just like, what's the one
job a woman can't do?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Play as in the adaptation of the line the Witch,
I can't do that. They can do anything exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So the casting news came out over the weekend and
I've got to say, my heart, I hope I'm wrong.
My heart sunk a little bit because it's British actress
Emma Mackie, who a lot of people would know from
sex education.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yes, a lot of people also know her as being
Mugger Robbie's exact look alive.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, that's so funny because yeah, that's been the conversation
for years that she and Margot Robbie look so similar
that they get mistaken. There's been photos of Emma that
are run with Margot Robbie's name under Actually Emma's been
chased through the streets by paparazzi thinking that she's Margo.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I thought it was Margot Robbie in Sex Education for
the first three episure.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Really yes, you're like, man, this is a strange girls like.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I actually thought it was like an.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Old show because you know how they actually have quirky
like costume design. Yea insect, I thought it was an
old show. Wow that had they just resurfaced Netflix.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
It's so funny because Emma Mackie. There's a lot of
headlines around about Emma and Greta reuniting, but she was
only Emma was only in Barbie for a second yea.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
A lot of like A listers were in Barbie for
like one hot mass.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Everyone just wanted a cameo like John Cena was like,
please come to the Mr Man like respect. But Emma
was supposed to have a much bigger role because they
were bringing her in to be like Margo Robbie's Barbie doppelganger.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So you have.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
All the Barbies were different, so she was going to
play a Barbie that was identical to Margo Robbie. And
they're like, this will be so funny because it's like
a great pop culture reference. But then Margo was saying afterwards,
once they bought Emma in dressed in the same they
stood next to each other. Once they stood next to
each other, they didn't look alike at all.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So the joke was, actually didn't look alike in the movie.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
No, So they just kept Emma in there in like
a supporting barbie cameo role, but they had to nix
her whole storyline where she was is this like a
make good?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Did?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
She like, I'm so sorry we had to cut you
out of Barbie, But do you want to be the
white Witch in Nania?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think it would be make good? Because no, I'm
I actually do because that movie was massive. You imagine
like knowing that your big role was cut completely from
a movie of that side. Yeah, and I are a witch.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I mean, look, I'm gonna trust the Process series. I
think it's a movie. So each book is going to
be a movie. It's and there's like so many six Yeah,
oh gosh, Well, I mean, there's a lot of story
to tell, and like the big film adaptation dropped the
ball after Voyager the Dawn Trader and didn't pick up
any of the other great stories that came afterwards. It
goes right till the kids come back when they're adults
(06:00):
and they become children. Except for Susane rap spoilers, Sorry,
she doesn't die. She just doesn't believe in Nannia anymore.
It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. So I
think it is going to go all the way with that,
which kind of just takes her out of making anything
else from going to say at least ten years potentially,
which is interesting. So I don't know, people look excited
about Emma. I just feel that that's such an iconic
(06:21):
specific role it needed a character actress, and I'm not
sure about her also being so you wanted.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It to be.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I mean maybe that's where we had to get Merril
Litt or something like that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
We had Away someone we.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Were just getting Anne Hathaway for every cheesy role.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I don't think Anne Hathaway has that pure evilness in
her soul.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
That's what you need.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
You need an actress that just has pure or can
at least do that very evil kind of Michelle Peiffer, Yeah, potentially,
Michelle Peiffer does evil really well, like look at her
od Hairspray. Anyway, that's all the casting updates we have
for the Nannia movies at the moment.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
We'll keep you posted. I guess we'll circle back in
ten years.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
To see years putting your diary see this what So
late on Friday night, a bit of a story started
sweeping the world, and that is because a big Brother
UK came to an end with its big Fana.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
They crowned a winner. We don't care about that.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, Like both of us were working the Friday shift
and I'm so glad this happened after we locked.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I mean it would have been great for numbers on
the day off for the company very late at night.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
It was extra great for us.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, the two of us in charge and what could
go wrong? So, yes, this happened on Friday night. And
why we were so invested is that there had been
this huge story playing out on the screen with Jojo Siwa.
So if you know what to cross that name, Jojo
Siwa was one of the stars of the TV show
Dance Moms, a wildly horrifically problematic show entertaining as hell.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
She invented gay pops, yes, she did so.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
She she was so cute, she was so little on
that show.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
She came in. She always got you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Know, a high pony, yeah, and she had a brand
the moment she came in. And she came in when
the show was already crazy popular, so she and her mum, Jesslyn,
came in dance mum Jesselyn came in ready to build
a brand. Now JoJo's six, so I'm assuming that she
wasn't completely complicit in this, but she was, you know,
really gorgeous little girl, huge personality, wore a massive big
(08:15):
bow and her hair always like done up like crazy.
And then she became so wildly popular, probably at that time,
the most popular off that TV show, and she spawned
her empire with like her series and her music, current
her albums and her touring and her bow company like
crazy crazy Crazy grew up in the spotlight, came out
I think in like her late teens early twenties. Obviously
(08:36):
got a lot of backlash from people, and it has
been like a really outspoken advocate of the gay and
queer community since then, so that's obviously all happening. And
then at the end of last year it seemed that
she was dating an Australian called Kathebs.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yes, Kath Ebs is an influencer and an advocate in Australia,
but I feel like people started to know about them
more when they started dating Jojo.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, so I think Kath had like quite a big
following in Australia as a presenter and an actor and yes,
an advocate and all these sort of things. So I
was already following them, was following Kath but not Jojo
before this happened. Oh yeah, well just because they're Australia,
whereas Jojo, like I was aware of Obviously, I've like
know a lot about Jojo as I just like recounted
her entire career, but I wasn't her target market, so
(09:22):
I wasn't following her on any platform. But then photos
started coming out of them, like at a petrol station
together and like having lunch and BONDI and all these things,
and I was like, Wow, what Kath Ebbs and Jojo
Sie were like and like? And Jojo Sea was like
an adult now she's twenty one.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like, yes it was. And she did that very famous
Miley Cyrus thing where she wanted a complete and we
talked about this on the spill. She did a complete
rebrand of her I guess cutie, colorful, high pony like,
lots of sparkles, vibe into like punk rock. Basically, she
dressed up as Kiss to the iHeart but.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I didn't know who Kiss was.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Very famously you don't fine, fine, fine, we don't judge
here exactly, and had this and released Karma, which has
to be said, a banger of a song, banger and yeah,
had this huge pop culture moment. But when those paparazzi
it just started coming out of Kath and Jojo together
in Australia, they just looked at they was having this
beautiful time, like hanging out and bondying, going to lunches
and like filming each other, like getting petrol and all
(10:20):
this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I felt like a very like first adult relationship.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just kinel like you were seeing
these two people like I don't know when they started
getting romantic, but it seemed like you saw them kind
of find each other have that wild attachment when you
meet someone that you just click with so instantly, And
because they both have such huge social media presences and
they're both very public people, they would like film each
other a lot and share videos all that sort of stuff.
And so it wasn't until January they confirmed that we're
(10:46):
in a relationship. And Kath was over in LA with
Jojo a lot, and Jojo would be in Australia and
they would post all these beautiful videos and.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I get great points for those flights.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, that's the real takeaway from me date someone overseas
get the wall. Yeah, well, I mean I was watching
them together, like they were together for the La fires,
like Kather's and JoJo's home, and they were having to
like pack up for that. And then you saw Jojo
be here in Australia and like they would this thing
where the Cathols like picked them up from the airport
and then they go back to the hotel room and
be covered in balloons and flowers and be like kissing
(11:17):
each other. And they gave this interview to People Magazine
on one of their red carpet moments, talking about being
so in love, and Jojo was like, this is the
first like proper mature, committed relationship I've been in and
I'm so happy. So they were like they eat couple
for a long time since the start of this year.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I'd say, yeah, but it feels like they weren't even
together for that long.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well I think officially they'd set us, told us since
January and.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So okay, they've been together for like four months. Yeah,
but it feels like they've been together for.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Well four months in like public time is a lot
where you've been watching everything about their lives unfold for
four months.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So we could say that they have been in a
relationship for maybe a year. That too much pushing it.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
No, I'd say, especially you know when you go really
intensely into those like where you're kind of all in
from the start. Like I think time is less relevant
to the amount of commitment that they had that they
were spending all their time together. And also, as we
know now, there was like talk of marriage behind their
scenes and everything, so they were all in really serious.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Okay, So this is where it gets a bit murky. Yeah,
because after they announced their relationship, Jojo disappears. She goes
into the Celebrity Big Brother UK house. We have talked
about Celebrity Big Brother this year before, especially talking about
Mickey Rourke. I don't want to bring it up because
it's too much. We talked about it. We will put
(12:34):
a link in our show next. But basically he was
saying some not only homophobic comments towards Jojo, but also
quite dangerous comments.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah and I'll turn you in, being really aggressive and
all those yeah awful things, awful awful.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And during that you see a lot of the other
house members kind of stick up for Jojo, especially one
person named Chris Hughes. Now, Chris Hughes is a UK guy.
He was on Love Island and he also dated Jesse
Nielsen from Little Mix. He has this kind of aura
of being a who chases fame, Like that's kind of
(13:13):
like what society knows I'm about. You won't read this
in headlines, what you'll see it on red sides. That's
what I'm going to say, you know, That's what I'm
talking about, bring you the inside, the inside scoop, to
the point where he was even confronted about it on
Big Brother in the Big Brother Room as if like
he's only friends with Jojo because he wants her for
a fame, and he broke down crying, saying no, I
really value this friendship. That's not why I'm friends with her. Anyway.
(13:37):
After all this during Big Brother, which I only found
out it's actually filmed live. Yeah, so they're in that
house and they're loved ones and all of us are
watching them in real time interact with each other in
this house. What was happening in this house is that
you see Chris and Jojo get very close I would
say closer than friends.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yeah, I mean it.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Does look that way. There's normal way to spin it.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Is there to the.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Point where even if they were in a relationship and
I saw some of the stuff I saw in the
clips with Big Brother, I'd be like, that's too much.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, and you're a relationship, and we should say that
before Jojo went into the house, she had been with
Kath and there was this big kind of send off.
I mean, I'm sure there's much more behind the scenes,
but publicly we saw them have this moment of like,
JoJo's going to do this big, amazing thing, and Kath
was talking about being so proud of her. And also
Kath was like live posting all the time about Jojo
being in the house and like resharing clips of her
(14:32):
and talking how proud that they were of her, And
when the Mickey Rock stuff went down, Kath was like
guns are blazing defending her, standing up for her, posting
about her, and just like, you know completely, like that's
the love of my life and I've got their back.
And then as the Chris thing started to like really
become so prominent, that's when Kath stopped posting about Big Brother,
(14:54):
And that's when I think people got even more suspicious
about what was happening.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So some of the stuff that was happening with Chris
for the longest period of time during Big Brother, it
was all online speculation and like they're all big comments
on TikTok, comments on Reddit threads, comments on Instagram, or
people going this is not a Tonic relationship. However, no
one confirmed anything. You would see clips of them spooning
in bed, yeah, you'd see clips of them romantically dancing,
(15:20):
just the two of them.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh yeah, and that's towards the end, so you would
see building by know the scene you're talking about where
they're dancing towards it's like one of the final nights
they'd bee Brother house and they do the dirty dancing
lift and he's toiling her around, and there's the difference
between people in Australia are watching this look so aghast
because we're still all in on the Caf and Jojo
relationship and shipping them. And as much as you can
(15:42):
say it's weird that people get caught up in other
people's romances, like we just do. That's the world we
live in with like celebrities and things like you see
people a couple that you'd love and you become invested
in their love story and so we're all in that
and being like what the hell. But a lot of
people in the UK who didn't know as much about
like they knew Jojo had a partner because she would
talk about Caf in the house a lot, even while
the other housemates. At one stage, there's clips where Jojo
(16:04):
and Chris are like hugging and like patting each other's
faces and talking about how close they are, and then
there's also seem there in the hot hub together. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I couldn't even watch the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
It looks like some intense stuff is happening, and while
the other housemates is like, your girlfriend is going to
be so angry, and he's.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Like, you two better fuck or get out Yeah. I
was like okay, and then.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Just like yay, and it was like your girlfriend's going
to put fists up or something like that, and JoJo's like, no, no,
she'll be fine with it. So then you're thinking, like, oh,
like maybe they are just I don't know. I've just
been so naive through this whole thing. Can I just say,
because up until like nearly Friday, I was like, maybe it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Well, you're like it, that's how the kids do it.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
But he's like in his early thirties, she's twenty one,
and so yeah, up until kind of Friday, I was
still holding out hope that maybe it just was this
like overly touchy feely friendship because I haven't actually kissed
or said we love each other or said anything like that.
There's a lot of speculation because the whole thing about
Big Brother that's been in our screens for decades is
(17:01):
that a lot of contestants can we spar under the
blankets because you can take your mic off in there
and like they're under the blanket, you can't see, or
you can write on each other's hand, and that's how
like a of relationships in different houses have started and
because Jojo and Chris spent so much time under that
douna sleeping together, or you could hear them giggling and talking,
but you couldn't. You will always hear what they were saying.
There is like a lot of speculation that they had
(17:22):
their relationship talk under the blanket, Like, we don't know,
but I was still kind of holding out hope that
maybe it was just a bit of our intense friendship.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Maybe it still is. We don't know. It's not. Oh okay,
so naive over here. I'm like, maybe they're just really
good friends.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So what happened? Like the final thing that we see
from Big Brother is the big finale. Jojo came third,
Chris came six. I don't really understand how you win
Big Brother.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It's a public vote. Oh, it's a public vod so
we don't care about that. It's like kind of like
the Hunging Games.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
We see Jojo and Chris have this big emotional farewell
to each other, and she says a lot of interesting things.
It's a big goodbye. They thank each other, they tell
each other how much they love each other and their friendship,
and she also says that she's just very confused. Yeah,
and he's like confused about what, and she's like just
things in general. It's weird, right, Still, all of this
(18:19):
is still very much online speculation of all of us
watching this and then making up our own theories in
our head if this is a relationship or is it
just platonic. Then we get a video from kath Ebbs.
It's now been deleted, but it's been reposted everywhere, and
this is what they said.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I honestly feel so numbed out right now and so
disorientated that I feel like the only thing I have
to do to place this situation is to finally address
it after two weeks of sitting back watching certain things
(18:58):
unfold and not being able to get any clarity from
the person that it involved. Who was I guess like
in a odd way like I don't know if you can,
I don't. I haven't processed enough to if you'd want
to call it love bombing or whatever, But it seems
to me I have experienced a version of that, being
(19:20):
told that I'm the love of someone's life, being asked
to marry them before this social experiment, being adored throughout
behind closed doors, being hurt by what I saw, but
wanting to work through it and have a conversation and
(19:44):
get clarity and you know, to be met with being
I guess further humiliated in a weird wait, that's more
of a feeling. I don't know if it's fact, but
I feel further humiliated in the fact that the story
goes right now. In the last eight hours or whatever,
(20:05):
I have flown. I flew here and I went to
the live show to show up for my partner and
support them in their experience and then obviously later on
address my feelings of like hurt and like work through
them like all relationships do. But before I could even
(20:29):
get back to.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
The hotel, I.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's actually crazy, went to the after party with with
my I guess now X crazy thing to say, and
was dumped in the party. I was told that there
are confused feelings there. Do with that what you.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Will, Okay, So to kind of recap, kath Ebbs in
Australia flies eighteen hours to the UK to go to
the Big Brother finale after party to support their partner Jojo.
At the after party, kath Ebb says that Jojo broke
up with them and they were there to kind of
(21:15):
support their partner and yet they got broken up with
They also said that Chris was in the next room.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That was a very pointed thing to say in that video.
I thought, like, really bringing like he's in the mix, Like,
we obviously don't know to the extent of what's happening
between these three people and Jojo and Quis, but the
fact that they mentioned him and that he was in
the room in like a hotel suite or something like
that is just really heightening the whole story.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I think people have been split in the middle
with this story. In particular, there are the people who
are watching and you can see all these comments on
TikTok of all the clips of Jojo and Chris together,
people shipping them hard. Yeah, like people love this idea.
It's also important to point out that in the house,
Jojo came out as queer. Previously she had come out
(22:02):
as a lesbian, and she kind of had this moment
in the house which was actually quite beautiful of her
having this realization about herself saying no, I'm queer, and
people are running with that to say that because of
her admitting that she's quicks because she now likes Chris,
which I don't think is the right.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Thing to do.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I think that's getting into like a really messy situation
where you're bringing someone's like sexuality and labels into this
really intense thing of like because she said this, she
must mean this, and it must mean this that sort
of thing. I think that's more of a fluid like
conversation and regardless of all this happening, because she could
have said that in the house and then could have
had no accusations of cheating or anything like that, I
(22:38):
think it's totally separate. I'm just thinking like in terms
of when I was watching that video obviously, like the
scale of this, like having the whole world be so
intense on watching this, but just putting yourself in kath
eb shoes for a second, of like getting on that
flight from Australia to the UK, which you want to
a bitch of a flight.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
It's long, it's bad when you're going on a nice
holiday and.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Also going excited to see your partner.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I don't even know if they were excited because of
the clip, because they have been watching this unfold worldwide
and watching the world like fall imagine like falling in
love with someone that you think is your person and
having the talks about getting married and everything, and you've
publicly declared all this to the world, like the world's invested.
And then that person who was your person goes on
a reality TV show and whether or not they had
(23:21):
some sort of an affair, it looks that way. It's
the entire world. So there's an extra pressure of like
the eyes on you. And then you get on a
fly and you fly that bitch of a flight to
the UK to go to the event to celebrate this
TV show that has ripped your life apart. Because you
watch your partner Big Brother's on early every night, so
it's like every night live streams, and so much of
the show was dedicated to Jojo and Curs. I even
(23:42):
couldn't even tell you the other people on that show,
Like my entire feed has just been filled with them.
And as I said before, the UK audience in particular
very invested in this love story. I've seen people calling
them like they're like, it's Jack and Rose from the Titanic.
They come from different worlds and they're making it work.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
And I was like, what it's.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
All because you see one hot tub scene, Yeah, I
mean that Jack and Rose.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Or him spinning her around the dance floor and they're
laughing and like all this like Romeo and Juliet, like
everyone's very invested in this love story. And you see that,
and you still get on the plane and you go
into the party knowing that every single person that room
is looking at you and being like, oh, like I
know what's going to happen. And then that partner says
to you, I don't want to be with you anymore,
like I can't even imagine. And then also what you've
(24:22):
got to like then fly the twenty five hours back
to Australia.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And you also have to consider the layers of fame
in this situation. Both Chris and Jojo are very very
famous people, like millions of followers both of them. Kath
is famous here in Australia, but in comparison, they're nowhere
near as famous as Jojo and Chris. So when you
put it all together, you're not only seeing like Jojo
(24:47):
seemingly quote unquote cheat on her partner, but then you're
also kind of just brushing that partner under the rug
because you don't really know them, so like, oh, well,
who cares about their feelings? And then they come back
to Australia where they're so so famous, so all everyone
wants to talk about is their reaction to this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, exactly, And that's something I thought was interesting in
a video that Abby Chatfield posts about the situation, so
Ad he's really good friends with Cath. I mean again,
I just know this from an outside like watching their
content over the years. They hang out a lot, their
good friends. And then Abby posted like screenshots of it,
like looked like a FaceTime group call with some of
their friends and Cath to Instagram today being basically like,
(25:26):
you know, we're hearing the full story and oh my god,
this is awful. And in the comment she's replying to
people being like this is awful for Cath. And then
she did a big TikTok video talking about the side
of it that she thinks people have missed, which is
just like how public it is, and it's interesting kind
of hearing from someone within the friend group who has
a lot more information than just like people like us
(25:47):
who were just watching like clips from the outside. Because
Abby was saying that they had met Jojo a few times,
you know, because they're dating their friend. Abby says Jodo
seemed really mature, but she now knows that isn't true,
which I thought was kind of like, you know, an
obvious statement given what's happening. But then she also talked
about she didn't share any of Kat's private information or
anything like that, but she just wanted to say that,
like it's a level of like higher humiliation almost because
(26:10):
of like how public it was. And she's like Jojo
has been raised in the spotlight. Her mum monetized her
since she was a tiny little child. She is a
rage beta, Like she's talented, but she's also a rage beta.
She has built a career off like big TikTok moments
and viral videos and all that sort of stuff, so
she knows how to like build a story and build momentum,
and that she's done that purposely in the house without
(26:32):
kind of thinking about how it would affect a partner
on the outside, because she's going for the headline to
an extent, like not saying that she's like done this
all for show, but saying like she would know how
big the momentum this is going in the background, Like
she's not name enough to think that that story would
unfold in the house, and it wouldn't be the main
storyline from the show.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And I feel like this story is going to follow
kath everywhere. Yeah, so long, but much longer. It will
follow them for much longer than I'll follow Jojo.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Well, that's the thing too.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
What I feel is probably happening for kath EV's at
the moment is that they would be getting just inundated
with media requests and interview requests, and there's heaps of
publications that whenever you have to, like we do if
we put someone on Mamma Me and we reach out
to them and be like, Hi, you know, would you
like to comment, We're running the story so that like
they're not blindsided, But there would also be so many
like radio stations and TV stations and everyone that would
(27:22):
be like just hounding Cath at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Even TikTok is of Australian TikTok is and there's a
lot of them. Yeah, my whole feed every second TikTok
is just people giving their two cents on this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, exactly. It looks like they're still in UK at
the moment. I'm assuming they'd be come back to Australia.
I don't know but I'm assuming they come back to
Australia too. Those yeah come back look after you. I'm
assuming when they come back to Australia. Our paparazzi culture
isn't as big here, but we know from a really
big celebs that it does really intensify when there's a story,
and so I'm sure they will be followed everywhere because
everyone want to have like photos of Jojo Cyx, you know,
(27:58):
looks downcast walking through the streets of Bondaine. It's like
they're probably just going to get a coffee, but it
doesn't matter because like you just get this one shot
and then it gets pushed out there.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
And at the same time, for me when I go
get my coffee, yeah, I look.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Downcast all the time, and I've been.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Dumped by five people in the same day.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I'm her closed to break up and it's just how
my hair looks when I walk around my neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
So there's that.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
The other side of it is that the Jojo and
Chris story is really heating up, we should say. When
they came out of the house, they both said this
is just a friendship. It's really Britonic.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
They love the word, you know, when you like have
one word in your head and you say it over
and over again. If you watch that interview, the amount
of times I said the word platonic, it's so funny,
and someone who said to them platonic over and over again.
But they are very very close friends. They were spotted
playing tennis together.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
So that was a big thing from the house.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Again, I've never watched Celebrity UK, Big Brother or any
of these kind of shows.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
The law I know about this.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Show win Big Brother, do you reckon? Yeah, I think
i'd either win or be the first to go.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, maybe they'll vote you because they're so scared of you.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
No, I don't worry just because you either love me
or hate me. You could do it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Flex Mammy. Do you remember how she got out because
she was just so obsessed with talking and Big Brother
She kept going into the room and they found that.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So but again, that's a good example of some one
who's beloved by everyone, like everyone loves Flexmami, and then
goes in she goes into Big Brother house and it
just didn't translate, and it's like, how does that even happen? Yeah? Literally,
but yeah, So the amount of law I know about
UK big brother, though, thank you for saying that. Is
that there was so much of like this build up
of what their friendship was going to be from the outside,
Like they made this date like the first Sunday we
(29:29):
get out of the house, we're gonna go play tennis together.
And now there's all these shots of them going into
a country club to play tennis together. Jojo and Chris.
Either they are just friends because we still don't know,
and they were like trying to show the world, Look,
we're just friends playing tennis. All they've jumped completely into
this relationship. They were like breadcrumbing the whole time.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Well, they might not know themselves, like they might not
have had a relationship conversation. Maybe they're in a situationship,
and we all know when you're in a situationship, you
don't really mention you're in a situationship because I jinxes everything.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, exactly. And again, I mean he's just a bit
of a fuck boy, isn't he.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah. I mean, look again, I'm only labeled.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I've only known about this man's existence for like three
weeks until I became very invested in this whole thing.
But that is the word on the street from people
who have followed him for a long time that he
is kind of like that. The other thing is to
like they're not posting heaps of photos or anything of
each other yet, but Chris's friends were posting like a
group dinner and he's at it and Jojo is like
(30:25):
sitting next to him with her arm around him and
like cuddling at the table.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Okay, again, could be platonic. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I'm not a big hugger, but you don't just like my
friend's friend's dinner.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, and sit next to each other and hug through
the whole dinner. It's quite intense.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
They are doing a sit down interview together in the
next twenty four hours Jojo and Chris like a morning
show in the UK, So I think that'll come, but
I don't together. Yeah, yeah, together. I mean, obviously we'll
report back once it happens at the time of recording.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
And I just like the maake out during the interview.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I mean, aren't they came so close to making out.
There's allegations that Big Brother cut the kissing scenes between them,
but as if they're going to do that, they would
have been like kiss kiss from those you know, like
you can walk I don't know if you've been too
the Big Brother houses like in Australia and stuff. But
you walk through corridor you haven't well, I know.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
You have for work, yeah, but don't talk to me
like I'm also on your level. I don't know if
you've been to the Oh, you know, I haven't been
doing Brother House.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I don't know that you can go to it to
I don't know what you do in your spare time.
Maybe you wait, wait, you know everything about it? So true? Okay,
so when you go to the Big Brother you walk
through there's all these corridors in the house where it's
like you're like glass that you see and there's heaps
of people behind there. So you're like if people are
having a conversation and there's always a piece of glass
next to them, there's like fifteen people on the other
(31:43):
side of it who are listening.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, So I can just imagine the whole time they're
like the people behind the glass who were next to
Jojo and Chris's heads. The whole time, there would have
been heaps of people behind that wall, behind it, not just.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Like cameras set up in the house, you.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Know, there's cameras set up everywhere, but there's like walk
throughs with the double sided glass, so like when they're
looking in the glass mirror, like it's like mirrors, but
it's you can it's like being a detective's office.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Like you can see that.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
So I know the UK one's different, like a kind
of lips and just someone there's like fifteen people, no exactly,
Well you can stand there and like just be in
the midst of everything. That's what the producers do, and
so I can just imagine those people being like kiss kiss, kiss,
because like the ratings would have been through the roof,
and I think like the show did pick up international
momentum because of this. So that's the other thing, and
(32:27):
that's also the hard thing for kath Eb's is that
this has become like this worldwide news story, like it's
the front page of like people daily mail.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Because they're not only going through a public breakup, but
they're also going through the public watching their partner fall
out of love with them. Yeah, oh I hate it.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It's yeah, it's a different level I think of a
breakup than most people couldn't even comprehend, like going through
a breakup and then having that extra layer on it.
And again it's everyone romanticizing their relationship. Like I've seen
a few people sort of say, like mostly Australian people
commenting on people who are friends with kath Bey like
Joe John Chris will never say they're in a relationship
because they know they'll be hated, and it was like
(33:08):
they will not be hated.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
They will be a small group of people.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
But the bigger fandom, like the international fandom I've obsessed with,
so invested in their relationship because people feel like they
watch them fall in love on camera, and that's the
thing that people crave most in reality TV, Like they
crave a relationship to be very invested in and to
watch it happen in front of them. And that's what
they think happened. They think that she's kind of found
the love of her life, this Prince Charming and he's
(33:33):
like this reformed bad boy who was a fuck boy,
but she's changed him. Like that's the narrative from them
being in a reality show for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
It's too much for me.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, So I mean as much as we been talking
about it, obviously is like an kicky yeah yeah, and
a lot of kind of empathy for Catheb's going through
that and the whole situation, and I guess we'll see
what they say in this interview. One unfolds in the
next couple of weeks, and JoJo's only put up one thing,
one main story since she left the house since that
she's desperate to stay in the UK, that's what she
(34:04):
wants to do, so I think the story is just
going to keep on going.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today.
The Spill is produced by Amy Kimball with sound production
by Scott Stohnick. And we'll be back here on your
podcast feed at three pm tomorrow. Bye Bye,
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