September 9, 2024 • 42 mins
This is a sad week for us, trainwreckers. We say goodbye to our wonderfully bubbly and beautiful producer, Grace Richardson. She is off to tour overseas with her band CLEWS.
But with her final episode on the show, she let's us BTS of the music world and let us ask all the conspiratorial questions we wanted to!
So buckle up, try not to cry and help us bid farewell to Grace!
Don’t forget to follow and review the show! ILY x
Have a story, question or complaint? Leave us a message at TRAINWRECK CHATLINE 📞or via our Instagram @trainwreckthepod.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When I saw Scissor. I saw Scissor two years ago.
She was in the smallest writing at the very bottom
of the thing, and Dave was at the top, big
fucking da like I don't even know, and Sissa is
in the spy.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Free Life is an endless series of train wrecks with
only brief commercial breaks of parapet eleven eleven.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Make a wish for your future right now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's Grace. You need to make a serious wish. Everyone
on the book is right now listening. Make a wish.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Are you wishing that a wish? That's an ASMI you
got there, brother.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Was for a second. We all make a wish, guys.
This is this is a very heartfelt episode right here,
and I'm glad that we made a wish and we
started it right because everybody listening, get the tissues ready.
This is going to be great. Our beautiful Grace, our
(01:01):
beautiful producers. Last episode on train Wreck, What the hell
I know?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Help?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't like saying it like that. No, it's more
of a see you later. We're going to see you
at the next step.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
All right, fine, that's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I didn't like that, but I wanted dramatic effect. As well.
Oh you got to be like, oh my god and
start crying and everything.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Everyone's sobbing in their seat.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
We're all heartbroken.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah it's true.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Oh my gosh, Chillie and Mary, you two are so awesome.
It's been such a joy.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
This is even more for now it's really starting to
hit me. I was doing a dramatic effect and now
this is getting real, Grace.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
This is actually too real.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah. Yeah, we can't thank you enough for jumping on
this train wreck of an experience. We can't wait until
you jump back on board at some point in the future.
I'm going to keep Let's.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Hope she doesn't because she's going to kill it in
her career. Man, all right, next time we'll be interviewing
her because she's going to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You're true. Okay, let's let's talk about your career, Grace.
Let's talk about what you're doing, why you're leaving us,
what you've been doing, and all of that. Let's get
a bit of background on you, Grace again.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh my god, now I'm in the hot seat.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You are heck. Yeah, it's like we're interviewing you. This
is weird.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's the point. That's why she's sitting here.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I actually love it. No, I'm I have just recorded
an album with my band.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Thank you, thank you so amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
It's been a long time coming, is it?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Your sister and your bands and.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Me and my sister Lily are in a band called Clues,
and we've been a band together for probably like six
years or so, and this is our debut album, so
we finally have been able to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Wait, what about your other songs that I've listened to?
What are they singles?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Is that we've done too EPs? But the album is
a fish and EP is just basically like a mini album,
like six songs.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So okay, yeah, yeah, this is cool. What we're going
to do. What we're going to do this podcast and
everyone listening. We're going to dive into the whole music industry. Obviously,
we have Grace here, who's like been onto been been
a part of this band for six years, right, So
we're going to get all of the ins and outs
and behind the scenes of your life Grace, and I
guess probably throw some questions, some very dumb, ignorant questions.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I love it. When the idea for this episode, I
was very excited because I think this will be really fun. Obviously.
I mean we're a tiny, tiny fish in a you know,
relatively tiny pond, which is the Australian music industry. But
I do have a little bit of boots on the
ground knowledge that I can share with you. And I
know that you Tilly are really fascinated by like they're
(03:39):
behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, conspiracy, gal, that's why.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
She's doing that route. I thought we were going to
get some bats about like your career and industry, and
she's getting into the conspiracies and the illuminati. I bet
that's the direction you're going.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I'm just getting into the TikTok goss man. I've seen
a few things I.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can to it Till what are we starting with?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So, guys, my brother has recently like joined this little
band that he plays with at school. He has Yeah,
it's really cute. It's called meat Raffle Meat Raffle and
that is.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
A hilarious name. That's good, that's good. You know, wait
before you go on what I love about Zeke and
his whole setup at your house, till he is his
back room that is in like the backyard is literally
yeah yeah, yeah, and it's got all of his instruments
in there, drum set, guitar, it great.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Well, he plays the drums mainly, and like guitar pretty
much everything you give it to him and you'll be
able to figure it out, which I feel like is
a lot of musical people. But he used to have
his setup in our house, Like my room now is
noise proof because mum had it done because he'd drum
in there. But he was still too loud. So we've
(04:52):
removed him from the premises and chucked him in the backyard.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Had to be gone.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, that's it, but look it is paying off because
he has this little bit. And I went to this,
like I try and go to most of the shows
just because it's good fun. And I went to one
recently and he bought a solid pack of people, like
he's performing with older people, but he, being twenty one
years old, bought a solid amount of people.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And I.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah to this bar. They're just like small breweries.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And stuff, and all of his friends and stuff showed
up to show.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Like all our work people, like we all have similar circles.
His girlfriend's friends. She lives on an island. He bought
the whole island anyway, so regardless I have been to
this place before, and it's normally dead unless the foot
he's on, the Friday night foot he's on. It's normally
very quiet in there. But it just had me thinking
(05:47):
how much people he brought in because he was playing
in this little band, and how much more money that
place would have made because they were there. Yes, but
I said, Zeke, so how much money did you walk
away with? He's like, oh, like one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Bush And how long was it?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Hours?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Three hours?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Six? Transfer? Are we getting? Cashi's all, well.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
They would I don't know. I don't know the details.
I just like, wow, this is all oh yeah, true,
he ain't getting tax on it either way. He wouldn't
he wouldn't put his stack. But but yeah, it just
had me thinking about, like the exploitation in this industry
because grace like that's insane. Even though they're small, he
(06:31):
would have bought in a lot more money than that.
And he wasn't selling tickets. He doesn't make money off
tickets or nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And was this his first relationship with this brewery particular?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
By played there a few times.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Hold on at this point then, and I'm and I'm
going to have a word a business word to Zeke
myself if this is my third time then going into
this business and this brewery before going in there, and
I assume he probably did try, but I would ask
them that there is a certain amount of money that
I need to make to come in and play at
your venue because I brought X amount of people previously, right,
(07:04):
which you know, to their argument might be, no, we're
not going to pay you. This is a good opportunity
for you. I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, that's what Grace said. Grace is the E word exposure.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Because when you told me about this, Tilly, I was like,
oh my gosh, now you're getting a little inside scoop
through Zeke into like what it's like when you're just
starting out playing those little pub shows. And that is
I mean, it's such a common trope across any of
the creative industries. Really you do stuff for free for exposure.
And also, I think really early on, I know that
(07:36):
some of the shows we played, we were like, oh
we we kind of treated it as well, like let's
just look at it as a paid dress rehearsal because
you need to get good at playing a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Wait, I just want to say something quickly while you're
on that, because somebody said the other day that like
a one hit, like a big hit, is not really
a big hit. It's like in the making because they
we're seeing Sabrina Carpenter you know her, right, and like
she's doing so amazingly. But she's been performing for ten years.
But if she hadn't had all that practice and she
(08:10):
was suddenly signed to like open for Taylor Swift, she
would not she would not be performing at the level
she is now.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Totally true, And there are so many stories like that.
I mean, I remember when Lizzo kind of blew up
quote unquote overnight, that's what everyone said, and she was like,
excuse me, I've been slaving away for like eight years.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Like one well, you guys know that song? Did your
bootster work? Yeah, so she has like a one hit
wonder has a mad song. Austin then gets asked to
perform like the Grammys or something. That one song had
no stage experience. It was the shittest performance. Her vocals
were bad, really, she was halffing and puffing because she
(08:51):
was tired. But it just shows you actually need that
experience as much as it's shit, because you're not getting
paid you.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Do, Yeah, you definitely do.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
That reminds me of medians as well in that same boat. Right,
they've got to start somewhere in these comedy clubs where
they're not making any money or maybe paying to get
that slot. I've heard a comedians pay to get certain
slots for exposure before they get crazy. Yeah, and then
they get you know, TikTok viral and famous, and then
they go off to make a Netflix special. Right, You've
got to start somewhere, yeah, But.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Then it also can so easily cross over whether you're
a musician, whether you're an artist, whether you're a fashion
designer whatever. I think you just need to be aware
of where the line between exposure that is actually good
for your like professional development and your experience and your growth,
whereas the line between that and like exploitation, Yeah, because
(09:39):
it can so easily tilt the other way. And like
you were saying, welly just then about the Zeke example,
like you do need to treat it like you're running
a business at the same time, like you need to
be able to have conversations with you know, whoever's booking
you or whatever about about making sure that you're protecting
your best interests as well artists. Often people aren't equipped
(10:02):
with those skills, Like maybe would Zeke even think that
that's an option? I mean, just Zeke or whoever, when
you're first starting out, do you even think it's an
option to be able to ask for more? To be
able to again.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
This just reminds me of this. Like I won't go
into what it's about, but like this morning, Mary's like you, like,
you need to know your work because you're doing something together,
and He's like, we can ask for more. He's like,
let's just sit down and ask. I think it's definitely
an age thing because when I'm like as a younger,
when I was younger, I just would never ask for anything.
(10:38):
But Maley, you're so good with like contracts and negotiations
and stuff. And I'm such a pussy. And that's where
I think, like, even like justin Bieber and stuff, must
have just copped it. People must have just used an abuse.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, probably. How do you learn to back yourself?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So how did you learn?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Well? I mean when we first started out, I remember
I was like seventeen, I was still in high school
when you started out of the city.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
God, you have a solid resume by now a solid resume.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
But we, like my sister was she's a few years
older than me, and she was living in Sydney and
I was living in the town where we grew up,
which is like a three hour train ride away from Sydney. Yeah,
like for anyone who knows shout outs but South Coast.
But so I would get the train up to Sydney,
(11:30):
just like with my guitar on the train, and then
i'd like meet Lily. We'd like have to get to
a venue that we were playing early because obviously I
was under age, and so we never found out, like
would they have let me in if there was security,
I don't know, But anyway, we'd always get there early,
just in case, and we'd play these tiny little pub
(11:51):
shows and Lily, it's just us too at this at
that point and baby literally little babies. But it was
like tiny little pub shows. But that didn't last for
very long. We didn't get to do that for very
long because we essentially got like discovered, I guess you
would say, by our first manager. Hell yeah, at our
(12:13):
first at the first band show we ever played band.
That is so the very very early era when I
was like seventeen years old. Playing that era, it was
Lily and me playing as a duo, so without drums
and bass, it was likely no people, no people backing up,
and we were like, we want to be a rock band.
(12:36):
We keep getting compared to First Aid Kit, you know,
like kind of a folk duo. People kept like pigeonholing
us in this box of like, oh, you're two girls singing,
so you must make like indie folk music. And even
six years ago we were like, I mean I love
First ag Kit, No Shade, but we were like, there
are no girl rock bands. We really want to be
(12:57):
like a We want to be like girl Yeah yeah,
And that was the music we loved and that we
listened to. So we were like, okay, we need to
just get a band together. We need drums, we need bass,
we need distortion, we need guitars so that people will
hear us that way, because if we don't have that,
they'll just hear us as to like folk.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You can just put you into this box. So how'd
you go about finding this crew?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well, we booked a gig before we had a band
together because we were like, we just need to set
a deadline. We have a show to play and we
have to play it with a band, so we have whatever.
It was a few weeks to get a drama and
a bassist and just like make up a set, and
so we of course used a couple of our friends
(13:43):
at the time, one of Lily's great friends, Maya who actually.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
She's years girl.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
We used to go, I love it big Sleigh. She
didn't know how to play bass. We were like, Maya,
we need a bass player. Yeah, and did you have.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Any music background. She's like a.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Creative person.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Stuff out, Yeah, I think so okay.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
And then our other friend Ronan played drums for us anyway,
so we just like got this ragtag team together. And
then at the first show we played as a band,
the manager that we ended up working with found us
and we kind of just like started working with him
straight away, which meant that we weren't playing as many
of those like.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, you were going into you were getting proper jobs, Yeah,
bigger jobs at this point.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, because I think when we started working with with
a manager, then he linked us up with our first agent,
who's amazing and we still work with to this day.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And he what is the agent? What does the agent
do for you? Guys?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Okay, so an agent books shows to just kind of
like manage your career and.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The strategy and really, okay, cool cool.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
The agent is like literally just for playing live, like
they organize support to us and live shows and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So they eating a cut of your gig kind of
thing everyone, And now I'll get a cut.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Everyone gets it cut everyone.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, we've got to make it worth it. So wait, Grace,
can people do dodgy stuff to get up a bit higher?
Like you got lucky?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
She goes with the conspiracies?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Do you reckon that people were doing funky things?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
What? What's a funky thing? What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Okay, well there's some people in Hollywood that I can
think of that. Shut up real quick, a k A.
One direction just bibor, Like, is there do you think
people are doing funky things to get to the top?
Do you think there's industry plants?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Like one hundred, one hundred percent there would be. I've
never met anyone who's like, hello, I'm an industry plan.
They're not going to tell you, are they?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I don't know, and I could be for all we know.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, maybe you guys plans do you know of? No,
you don't know. I heard that's the problem. People conspire
that so and so like that hoc too girl.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, and even that another girl that does a podcast,
Bobby all Top. I've heard everyone.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Said that Bobby was she just came out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Okay, I have a question for you. Yeah, what does
an industry plant actually mean? Like an industry plant for.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Whose Well, somebody who's like a manager or somebody who
has connections. This is my perception of it. Somebody who's
like well connected would grab somebody who they see has
has possibilities and they would invest time and money and
like getting them well known so that they make money
(16:40):
in extase.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
They can get speed track to the top. But let
me hold you there. You can't to the start of
your explanation. They're talking about. That's kind of everyone that
ends up within like the TV industry, radio industry, some
other podcasts. Like people managers or people might see you
and they might you know that you have something special, right,
(17:02):
that's anyone that I don't think that's just like we
I don't think it's fair for us to say that
you're an industry plant because someone just randomly picked you
because they saw something in you. That's kind of all
of us.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, I understand, but I think it's like at a
higher level, they get the money and there, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Essentially, they're saying that if we we would be an
industry plant. If Tilly and I got picked up, they
saw something in us, this huge industry with big backing,
saw that funneled all of this money into us, and
we ended up on YouTube in two weeks with a
million subscribers or something, right.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yes, yeah, exactly, dude, that's like Bobby, Like, of course
Bobby did well. She just randomly got Drake on her podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, it was it was out.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Of nowhere, so no shit, like somebody helped her, like
somebody saw potential in that, or like saw potential in
her and was like, I've got the money, I've got
the contacts, I've got the backing to push this. But yeah,
Grace back to the music. Have you seen any of
that stuff or do you hear of that sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I don't know, No, I don't think to that level.
But I think in the music industry and probably in yeah,
like any creative industry, there's always the thing of like
there's some crazy power dynamics at play, and I think
they are pretty they can be pretty dire. I think
in the music industry. The music industry has a very
rough trot when it comes to like gender imbalances, which
(18:24):
we might get to you later, but I think that
maybe that's one of the ways that that kind of
plays out in the music industry. Like if producers or
managers or label heads or whatever have positions of power
that can be dangerous for the artists that they work
with or you know, other people on their team or whatever,
because it's totally political. These people have a lot of
(18:46):
player blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
These are the things you hear about. I don't know
if you watch like oh Paul Marilyn Monroe, like so
many sad things that these people had to do, or
like all the stuff that's coming out on what's that
not Netflix? It starts within that we were when we
were kids. It was all the Nickelodeon stuff coming out,
(19:12):
Like there's a there's a full series called Quiet on set.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I have seen about and yeah, a lot of the
treatment and the mistreatment, I.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Guess exactly, like exactly, I know it very carefully because
like the stuff that was done to them like people
were having to like I don't know, Like it's just
like the Olympians with the coaches, like just dodgy stuff
going on. Totally, Yeah, like exploitation of younger children and
(19:44):
it's like, oh, if so and so is willing to
do this, they'll get put up high or whatever, like
it's kind of giving Jeffrey Epstein totally.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I think there's a dark underbelly to a lot of
the industries where people I don't know what it is
tally about, like media entertainment industries, there's so often this
dark underbelly of like, yeah, I mean, what will people
do to get to the top. It's one thing, but
then like what what do people at the top do
(20:13):
to retain their power? Knowing that they hold so many
people's careers and hopes and dreams in the palm of
their hands, and they can crush them whenever they want.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Some of these people they must.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
But guys, nowadays it's not just managers and everything. There
is the power of social media everything. That's that's when
we see these overnight successes because one video goes viral
or like a trend start my.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I saw.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I have seen this being talked about and I've spoken
to my cousin because he is a DJ in London
and Grace, I just feel like you are in the
niche of the music industry that would relate to this,
because apparently if you are in music, you these people
are saying that you lose respect if you're a TikTok
(21:13):
djer or like you've made your money from social media.
People want people that have put in the hard work
and the groundwork and made their way up. Is the
is this a thing? Like are people I don't know,
Do you get what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
That's a great question. So you're saying, like some people,
some musicians are rejecting using TikTok or social media because
they think it's lame, incredible.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's what they've been told that if you know TikTok dj,
it's like, oh.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Viral, then it's like, oh you didn't. That doesn't care.
It's just Okay, that's a great That is such a
good question. Okay. From my perspective, I'm like, Okay, that
makes sense. I can picture a musician, a DJ and
artist being like, I'm not going to post on TikTok
or social media because that's and like I don't want to.
(22:02):
You know, I'm not a brand, I'm just an artist.
Blah blah blah. From my perspective, the reality is and
I feel like this is like generally just an accepted
fact these days. Social media is no longer a luxury.
I don't think it's something that you can choose not
to use. I think that these days the sad reality
(22:25):
is whether you like it or not. Artists are also creators,
like you have to be both and that though, is
it a sad reality? Well, Maley, I think it's a
sad reality as an artist. Maybe not for all artists,
but some artists are like I just want to make music.
I don't want to I just came here to write
songs and like make albums. Or I just came here
(22:45):
to like to paint, you know, and go to gallery.
I don't want to have to have a TikTok presence
because that's a whole other kettle of fish that like,
I never signed up for. But the reality okay, But
then the reality is like Kurt Cobain never had a
TikTok account because TikTok didn't exist. But also the media
(23:06):
landscape was so different back then, Like you get an article,
you get radio play, all of that was your avenue
to success. And nowadays that media landscape like has totally
changed and that's not how it works anymore. So it's
kind of like, if you can't beat them, join them,
and you just have to Yeah, you just have to
find a way of doing it that like is enjoyable
(23:29):
and fun and like authentic to you. But I also
understand why it's a frustrate a frustrating. Have you heard
of like Callsey or someone had her album held hostage
by her label because they were like, oh, you have
to like increase your TikTok Oh that's why.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Okay, that's that's annoying. I get that part. But I
was going to say the benefits, like the benefits of
obviously these social media platforms like I just you know, exponential.
You can't even put a put a tag on where
your popularity can go, where your the ears that your
music can reach, the money that you can acquire, Like,
(24:13):
I think, there's so many, so many, so many benefits.
Great point, though, Grace, they're saying that, I guess now
the mainstream media and radio and stuff that's more of
a niche market. Again, there's this power dynamic or politics
into into the people that they do choose that go
on radio. I'm sure. So I do get that it
can be harder to go that way and they kind
(24:33):
of force down this, I guess path of TikTok and
Instagram even against totally.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Totally, but I just think, oh God, if you want
to be an artist and you don't want to be
on social media, like I just don't know, that's like
just such a big pillar of like how you share
your music or whatever it is that you make with
the world, And it's kind of like, you know, what's
the point of being an artist if no one hears
your music? Like, I think there's so much to be
(25:00):
said for like music or art as a creative expression
and something that you just need to do for yourself.
There's so much value in that.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And it's art, right, You've been saying that it's meant
to be shared, it's meant to be seen in this
this beautiful organic way.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
But yeah, I mean, everyone gives themselves the ick from
their own social media presence every now and then, so maybe.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And dude, in my like, in my uneducated opinion, I
would say it's actually a disservice to yourself to not
reap the benefits of social media. Like, if you think
about it, back in the day, it would have been
like who has the money to pay for a radio slot?
But now it's like you can earn yourself that just
(25:42):
by like posting one shitty viral videos like you just
may as well. I mean, you can pay somebody to
make it for me. You don't even have to do it.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Oh that's so true, Tillie. Can I pay you to
do exactly? Yeah, because we have like no followers, And
here I am being like, you have to use so media, but.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
It's hard, like it's a solid following forgiven, you're saying
that you don't do much with that.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
We yeah, we need to get better at it.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
We're gonna come up with a social media plan here
now that you've got the album, now that you've made
the album, actually, let's let's let's rewind a little here, Grace,
how do you how do you go like? How long
does this process take? How do you get into the
process of making an album? What does that look like? Okay, great,
surface level, you don't have to go too deep, but.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
No, I won't go too deep. Okay, Well, basically we
worked with a record label. Basically we got our manager,
our agent, and like a label all in the same
like year or so, and we worked.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Year was that in?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
That was like twenty eighteen, I.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Think amazing A year in.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, And we had a record label who essentially distributes
your music and gives you money to record music. That's
basically what a record label.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
They give you this bit down payment of money to
fund your your well, they.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Give you like a signing bonus or whatever, and then
they pay for this studio, the producers whatever to record.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That is so cool. I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Do you then, within that contract as well, have a
certain amount of time or KPIs that you need to
hit in order to I guess re sign with this
record label. Like if you don't hit that, will they
stop funding?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
You know what? I don't think they are like KPIs
in the key performance indicators for those who don't know.
I don't think there are KPIs in the contract. But
I think that if your music doesn't go too well,
then you very easily fall into the you know, the
old trope of getting signed to a big, flashy record
label and then oh no, one's really it's not really
(27:36):
going the way we thought it would, and then you
just kind.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Of a little bit, we need to hit some because
they'll have.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
You know, most of the time, labels have their main
artists on their rosto who they focus on and pour
a lot of time and energy resource because that's who
makes the money, which, like from the business side of things,
makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, why else would you reino people?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
So I think a label can be great because recording
music is really expensive. So we did a couple of peas,
we did a string of singles with our label, and
we ended up leaving our label last year, I think,
and that was cool. That was like, oh my gosh.
(28:18):
We we have this sense of like freedom and we
can kind of do things on our own terms and
totally independent, Like there's something really exciting about diy whatever.
And of course the flip side of that is we're
free and we can do whatever we want, and now
we have no money. How the hell are we going
(28:39):
to fund an album? We got really lucky. We applied
for a grant. So from who someone's an artist out there,
have a look, there are all sorts of like creative
government run grants.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
We got a government.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Then god, my tax is paying for something good exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Seriously, we got an awesome grant from Sounda South Wales
that was the recording and Promotion grant and that basically
gave us the money that we needed to record an album.
So we were in a really lucky position where we
were like, oh my gosh, we're creatively free and we
have funding.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That's just like dreams.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
That's dreams because so much of the time it feels
like an uphill battle and the overheads are so high,
and he pours so much into it and there's not
a lot of financial return. Surprise, surprise. So that's basically
how we got to do it. And then from there
we were working with a producer who's in Melbourne. We
were sending versions of songs backwards and forth for like
(29:38):
a month or so, so like I would do pre
production and kind of record basically like a dodgy version
of our song which just sounds a bit shit, ye,
and send that to him. He would add drums, send
that to me. We'd give him notes and then we
spent a week in Melbourne at his studio recording vocals
and da data. So there's like a whole creative process
(30:01):
that takes I guess a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So you write your own music? Yeah, yeah, okay, just quickly.
I did see a TikTok of this guy on a
podcast complaining because he was like, I've written all these
songs for like Usher and stuff, and he's made millions
and I've made two thousand dollars for the song. Right,
what's your opinion on that?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Because I think.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I don't know what it was on.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
But yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
In my opinion, you're signing up to write this song.
Usher has the platform. I think you should be credited,
and I think you should get a percentage ongoing or something. Yeah,
this is like, what's your actual opinion on that? I'm
very interested.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
So it is such a thing. How does someone become
a back room songwriter? It's a career that not many
people even know exists. Like, you know, the biggest pop
stars in the world most of the time probably aren't
writing their own songs, or at least would have a
lot of writers.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
So much about Drake Kevin, I wrote some.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Of the Yeah Williams's writing credits every song on History.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Perry writes for every yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Most of the time, if you get a writing credit,
then you get a cut of the royalties for every song,
and that's that's the way that it should be.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
And you know what you're signing up for. I think
a flat out feet sucks because it might be a
one hit wonder I might do well forever, Like whatever,
do you sign a five percent away? I think that's
pretty solid, and that's what you're doing. You don't have
the same platform as these bigger singers, So if you
had released the song, would it have performed that way?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Maybe?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Not sure. And a lot of people are like very
very talented songwriters. It's such a skill to be able
to write a hit or write a great pop song.
Not everyone wants to be an artist. Not everyone wants
to perform those songs, so obviously for them, it makes
sense to give it to someone else.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And you know, it's cool when someone's like, oh, so
like that song was actually written for Billie Eilish, but
like somebody else performed it. I love hearing that song,
like it's like that song was written for somebody else.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
It's cool, totally.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I think a lot of the I just like a
lot of these these women and and like in this
industry is so cool. You were you were touching on
it before though, Grace, Sorry, we're completely shifting gears here
because I was just thinking when you said, Billy, what's
it like for someone like Billy or someone like yourself.
That's why we have you in this position as a
woman being in this industry.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Just acknowledge that. Mally just.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Absolutely, for the record, absolutely she actually does but.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Gives Billy eilish. Is that like not a compliment?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
She tearly says, my aura gives Billy. Is someone writing
this down?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We've got ghost writers here, honestly, what what is that
balance or imbalance, like you know, with with between women
and men within the industry. Have you got like, oh,
notes on that? I'm sure you do.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah, oh girl, I've got notes. I've got notes.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
She's got PhDs on it.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I got PhDs. You know who does have PhDs on it?
My sister. My sister is doing her pH d. I
don't know what's happened. My family's turning into a family
of doctors, every tiving doctor Richards and doctor Broad And
then it's just going to be oh yeah, and then
there's Grace just like doing nothing exactly whose life is
a train wrecker. Someone's got to do it, you know,
(33:35):
she's so. My sister Lily, who is in my band,
clues with me. She's doing her pH d on gendered
harm in the music industry, and I'm not going to
take things too Yeah, we don't need to go down
into the depths of dispair, but it is important to note.
It's important to know. I think that basically, in a nutshell,
(33:57):
the music industry is male dominated at every single level
of the industry.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So the pay gap and everything, the pay gap.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I think representation is like
a really big thing as well, Like there just aren't
as many women in the industry as men. So on
the one hand, there's an example like look at your
classic festival lineup, Who were the artists that are playing?
How many females onto that stage and how many of
them are men?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Every festival when I was younger was always boys.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
It's always boys, even in Australia Cooked.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Festival.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I was, and I think that.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Sorry, But when I saw Scissor, I saw Scissor two
years ago, she was in the smallest writing, at the
very bottom.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Of the thing.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Dave was at the top, big fucking way, Like, I
don't even know.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Of my favorite we're all over.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
So I get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah, but but yeah, the the actual artists on lineups
and playing live, the gender imbalance there is one thing.
But then I can't tell you how many times we
have played a bill of five artists and we're the
only girls on the bill. Okay, So that's one thing.
(35:24):
And I think that is something that is like people
are becoming more aware of, and it's definitely like probably
moving in the right direction, but I think there's still
ways to go, and it still happens. But then you
walk off the stage, Okay, you put down your guitar,
you walk off the stage, you go backstage, and everyone
behind the stage is a guy, like most of the time,
(35:46):
because you got to think there are stage managers, there
are crew, there are sound people, there are you know,
just like all the tech guys, all the tech guys
behind managers. It's just like at every single level of
the industry, it is male dominated. And that's just a fact.
So I think that that experience is pretty interesting, and like,
I just think of situations when we were younger, especially
(36:10):
because I do think the dials moving in the right
direction and there is some awesome work being put into
balancing the scales. But like, you know, one time I
was playing a show and one of the crew people
came up to me and just said, like, oh, do
you know how to use your amp? Why? That's like
such a tiny but it's a great example of like
(36:32):
it's my amp.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Like I know to a man and asked the same question,
who know.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
How to use your dick?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
No, I wish I had been quick enough to it.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That would be.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
If I could turn back time.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That would feel good good bye.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
But there's one of the times you have to shut
your mouth. Yeah, you wouldn't say even wanted to.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
You wouldn't. And I do think that it's just such
a thing of like I don't know, there's just so
many situations where like if we had our drumma and
our bassist were male, and you know, we'd get to
a venue and the venue people would like talk to them,
and it's.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Like God, it's like it goes Lily and me, like
you have to talk to us.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
We're the ones who are anyway. So there are little
moments like that. But I think the piece that's missing
from this conversation a lot of the time is like
why it matters? Because I think it's one thing to say,
like the music industry is dominated whatever. We all know
that's obvious. I think the reason that matters is because
people get hurt because that's the environment they work in.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
They're in a male dominated environment.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, and it becomes like unsafe, and well it can
become unsafe and and I mean Lily and me have
had like such a positive experience being in this industry,
we really have, but I actually feel like we've been
probably like quite lucky to get to say that, which
is like, so that's like an awful thing to feel
(38:04):
like you've been lucky. But it also probably depends what
genre you're I don't know anyway, it's it's it's pretty
real like at some point in their career in the
contemporary music industry, fifty five percent of the Music Industry
Review survey this big survey participants, fifty five percent experienced
(38:25):
some sort of workplace sexual harassment. This includes seventy two
percent of women survey participants and thirty nine percent of
male survey partients. So it's like, oh, there's just it
breeds this environment where stats like that are commonplace.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, and it's people's lives and it's people's lives.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So that's what I would say about that. It's interesting,
but it's been also beautiful and all the boy bands
are incredible.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
It's not like, ye, we don't need that's not and.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
It's not about being like, oh, look at this person
on this line up. You know that's a boy band amazing.
But it's just there's got to be a bit of
work into balancing the scales so that everyone has a safe,
enjoyable time.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
You no, I reckon just before we go, give one
quick tip if there is any girls here that want
to get into the music industry, Like, what's your one tip?
What should they do than telling really good some good advice? Okay,
how did they.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Go about it? If you're a girl who wants to
get into the music industry, I would say having mentors
who are experienced in this industry is really important, and
if they can be female, that's really great. Do some research,
find out what artists you admire, find out what female
(39:45):
managers you admire, and go network with them. Take them
out for a coffee and pick their brain and ask
them this question as well, ask them what advice they
would give. I think it's really important to have a
network around you, who you can trust and rely on,
and who'll give you some some guidance because there isn't
a blueprint to follow. There isn't a map for how
to navigate this industry a lot of the time when
(40:07):
you're starting out. So I would say, get a support
system and also yeah, probably like don't take just don't
take ship from people and not in a I think,
just like, try and try and be sure on yourself
and know that you totally deserve to be there. The
(40:28):
dial is changing, You're being part of this way, know
your value, You're going to be part of this changing tide.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
And yeah, the time is now, The time is now.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
It's never been better. So I would say be optimistic.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
But.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Keep your eyes peeled maybe or something.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, aware, go for it.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, so they could just DM like a music manager
or something even I.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Reckon, Yeah, for sure, like any industry. Yeah, that's what
I do.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Wow, if I want to talk to someone, just quickly
shoot him and damn why not?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah? Why not? Right? Why not? Why not?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
All right?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
We got to Yeah, let's wrap here, grace, Oh look
at this. We've got flowers and chocolates coming into studio
live for Grace.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, you can come in.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
We want to thank you for everything you've done for us.
This is beautiful. Is that Indy is Indy over there? Oh,
the whole gang? But me, I mean, I'm alone soldiering this.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
We're still recording. You can be in there.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
We're wrapping it right now. Let's wrap as a team, guys.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Actually, okay, so every.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Tell everybody to say hello.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Looked in with a big bunch of flowers and chocolates
for me.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Like, guys, I'm going to rap as we're doing this. Guys,
thank you for listening. Grace. You are so so beautiful.
You deserve more than just flowers and chocolates. You mean
so much to us on this podcast and the way
that you've kept us on the tracks over these last
couple of months. Grace, we can't thank you enough, truly.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
So, oh my god, you're so so Now. Jay's just
leaving this year.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
He just hands me the we love you.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I love you, guys.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You're lost. But I'll obviously be listening every single week
and I'll talk to you guys literally tomorrow literally literally,
So it's see you soon. It's not goodbye, and.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
And let's manifest.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Let's manifest love follow US on socials. Thank you, keep
keep riding this train with us. We'll see you soon.
Literally not goodbye, we'll see you soon. Bye bye.
When I saw Scissor. I saw Scissor two years ago.
She was in the smallest writing at the very bottom
of the thing, and Dave was at the top, big
fucking da like I don't even know, and Sissa is
in the spy.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Free Life is an endless series of train wrecks with
only brief commercial breaks of parapet eleven eleven.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Make a wish for your future right now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's Grace. You need to make a serious wish. Everyone
on the book is right now listening. Make a wish.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Are you wishing that a wish? That's an ASMI you
got there, brother.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Was for a second. We all make a wish, guys.
This is this is a very heartfelt episode right here,
and I'm glad that we made a wish and we
started it right because everybody listening, get the tissues ready.
This is going to be great. Our beautiful Grace, our
(01:01):
beautiful producers. Last episode on train Wreck, What the hell
I know?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Help?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't like saying it like that. No, it's more
of a see you later. We're going to see you
at the next step.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
All right, fine, that's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I didn't like that, but I wanted dramatic effect. As well.
Oh you got to be like, oh my god and
start crying and everything.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Everyone's sobbing in their seat.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
We're all heartbroken.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah it's true.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Oh my gosh, Chillie and Mary, you two are so awesome.
It's been such a joy.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
This is even more for now it's really starting to
hit me. I was doing a dramatic effect and now
this is getting real, Grace.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
This is actually too real.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah. Yeah, we can't thank you enough for jumping on
this train wreck of an experience. We can't wait until
you jump back on board at some point in the future.
I'm going to keep Let's.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Hope she doesn't because she's going to kill it in
her career. Man, all right, next time we'll be interviewing
her because she's going to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You're true. Okay, let's let's talk about your career, Grace.
Let's talk about what you're doing, why you're leaving us,
what you've been doing, and all of that. Let's get
a bit of background on you, Grace again.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh my god, now I'm in the hot seat.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You are heck. Yeah, it's like we're interviewing you. This
is weird.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's the point. That's why she's sitting here.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I actually love it. No, I'm I have just recorded
an album with my band.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Thank you, thank you so amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
It's been a long time coming, is it?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Your sister and your bands and.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Me and my sister Lily are in a band called Clues,
and we've been a band together for probably like six
years or so, and this is our debut album, so
we finally have been able to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Wait, what about your other songs that I've listened to?
What are they singles?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Is that we've done too EPs? But the album is
a fish and EP is just basically like a mini album,
like six songs.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So okay, yeah, yeah, this is cool. What we're going
to do. What we're going to do this podcast and
everyone listening. We're going to dive into the whole music industry. Obviously,
we have Grace here, who's like been onto been been
a part of this band for six years, right, So
we're going to get all of the ins and outs
and behind the scenes of your life Grace, and I
guess probably throw some questions, some very dumb, ignorant questions.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I love it. When the idea for this episode, I
was very excited because I think this will be really fun. Obviously.
I mean we're a tiny, tiny fish in a you know,
relatively tiny pond, which is the Australian music industry. But
I do have a little bit of boots on the
ground knowledge that I can share with you. And I
know that you Tilly are really fascinated by like they're
(03:39):
behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, conspiracy, gal, that's why.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
She's doing that route. I thought we were going to
get some bats about like your career and industry, and
she's getting into the conspiracies and the illuminati. I bet
that's the direction you're going.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I'm just getting into the TikTok goss man. I've seen
a few things I.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can to it Till what are we starting with?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So, guys, my brother has recently like joined this little
band that he plays with at school. He has Yeah,
it's really cute. It's called meat Raffle Meat Raffle and
that is.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
A hilarious name. That's good, that's good. You know, wait
before you go on what I love about Zeke and
his whole setup at your house, till he is his
back room that is in like the backyard is literally
yeah yeah, yeah, and it's got all of his instruments
in there, drum set, guitar, it great.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Well, he plays the drums mainly, and like guitar pretty
much everything you give it to him and you'll be
able to figure it out, which I feel like is
a lot of musical people. But he used to have
his setup in our house, Like my room now is
noise proof because mum had it done because he'd drum
in there. But he was still too loud. So we've
(04:52):
removed him from the premises and chucked him in the backyard.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Had to be gone.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, that's it, but look it is paying off because
he has this little bit. And I went to this,
like I try and go to most of the shows
just because it's good fun. And I went to one
recently and he bought a solid pack of people, like
he's performing with older people, but he, being twenty one
years old, bought a solid amount of people.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And I.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah to this bar. They're just like small breweries.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And stuff, and all of his friends and stuff showed
up to show.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Like all our work people, like we all have similar circles.
His girlfriend's friends. She lives on an island. He bought
the whole island anyway, so regardless I have been to
this place before, and it's normally dead unless the foot
he's on, the Friday night foot he's on. It's normally
very quiet in there. But it just had me thinking
(05:47):
how much people he brought in because he was playing
in this little band, and how much more money that
place would have made because they were there. Yes, but
I said, Zeke, so how much money did you walk
away with? He's like, oh, like one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Bush And how long was it?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Hours?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Three hours?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Six? Transfer? Are we getting? Cashi's all, well.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
They would I don't know. I don't know the details.
I just like, wow, this is all oh yeah, true,
he ain't getting tax on it either way. He wouldn't
he wouldn't put his stack. But but yeah, it just
had me thinking about, like the exploitation in this industry
because grace like that's insane. Even though they're small, he
(06:31):
would have bought in a lot more money than that.
And he wasn't selling tickets. He doesn't make money off
tickets or nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And was this his first relationship with this brewery particular?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
By played there a few times.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Hold on at this point then, and I'm and I'm
going to have a word a business word to Zeke
myself if this is my third time then going into
this business and this brewery before going in there, and
I assume he probably did try, but I would ask
them that there is a certain amount of money that
I need to make to come in and play at
your venue because I brought X amount of people previously, right,
(07:04):
which you know, to their argument might be, no, we're
not going to pay you. This is a good opportunity
for you. I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, that's what Grace said. Grace is the E word exposure.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Because when you told me about this, Tilly, I was like,
oh my gosh, now you're getting a little inside scoop
through Zeke into like what it's like when you're just
starting out playing those little pub shows. And that is
I mean, it's such a common trope across any of
the creative industries. Really you do stuff for free for exposure.
And also, I think really early on, I know that
(07:36):
some of the shows we played, we were like, oh
we we kind of treated it as well, like let's
just look at it as a paid dress rehearsal because
you need to get good at playing a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Wait, I just want to say something quickly while you're
on that, because somebody said the other day that like
a one hit, like a big hit, is not really
a big hit. It's like in the making because they
we're seeing Sabrina Carpenter you know her, right, and like
she's doing so amazingly. But she's been performing for ten years.
But if she hadn't had all that practice and she
(08:10):
was suddenly signed to like open for Taylor Swift, she
would not she would not be performing at the level
she is now.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Totally true, And there are so many stories like that.
I mean, I remember when Lizzo kind of blew up
quote unquote overnight, that's what everyone said, and she was like,
excuse me, I've been slaving away for like eight years.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Like one well, you guys know that song? Did your
bootster work? Yeah, so she has like a one hit
wonder has a mad song. Austin then gets asked to
perform like the Grammys or something. That one song had
no stage experience. It was the shittest performance. Her vocals
were bad, really, she was halffing and puffing because she
(08:51):
was tired. But it just shows you actually need that
experience as much as it's shit, because you're not getting
paid you.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Do, Yeah, you definitely do.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
That reminds me of medians as well in that same boat. Right,
they've got to start somewhere in these comedy clubs where
they're not making any money or maybe paying to get
that slot. I've heard a comedians pay to get certain
slots for exposure before they get crazy. Yeah, and then
they get you know, TikTok viral and famous, and then
they go off to make a Netflix special. Right, You've
got to start somewhere, yeah, But.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Then it also can so easily cross over whether you're
a musician, whether you're an artist, whether you're a fashion
designer whatever. I think you just need to be aware
of where the line between exposure that is actually good
for your like professional development and your experience and your growth,
whereas the line between that and like exploitation, Yeah, because
(09:39):
it can so easily tilt the other way. And like
you were saying, welly just then about the Zeke example,
like you do need to treat it like you're running
a business at the same time, like you need to
be able to have conversations with you know, whoever's booking
you or whatever about about making sure that you're protecting
your best interests as well artists. Often people aren't equipped
(10:02):
with those skills, Like maybe would Zeke even think that
that's an option? I mean, just Zeke or whoever, when
you're first starting out, do you even think it's an
option to be able to ask for more? To be
able to again.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
This just reminds me of this. Like I won't go
into what it's about, but like this morning, Mary's like you, like,
you need to know your work because you're doing something together,
and He's like, we can ask for more. He's like,
let's just sit down and ask. I think it's definitely
an age thing because when I'm like as a younger,
when I was younger, I just would never ask for anything.
(10:38):
But Maley, you're so good with like contracts and negotiations
and stuff. And I'm such a pussy. And that's where
I think, like, even like justin Bieber and stuff, must
have just copped it. People must have just used an abuse.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, probably. How do you learn to back yourself?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So how did you learn?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Well? I mean when we first started out, I remember
I was like seventeen, I was still in high school
when you started out of the city.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
God, you have a solid resume by now a solid resume.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
But we, like my sister was she's a few years
older than me, and she was living in Sydney and
I was living in the town where we grew up,
which is like a three hour train ride away from Sydney. Yeah,
like for anyone who knows shout outs but South Coast.
But so I would get the train up to Sydney,
(11:30):
just like with my guitar on the train, and then
i'd like meet Lily. We'd like have to get to
a venue that we were playing early because obviously I
was under age, and so we never found out, like
would they have let me in if there was security,
I don't know, But anyway, we'd always get there early,
just in case, and we'd play these tiny little pub
(11:51):
shows and Lily, it's just us too at this at
that point and baby literally little babies. But it was
like tiny little pub shows. But that didn't last for
very long. We didn't get to do that for very
long because we essentially got like discovered, I guess you
would say, by our first manager. Hell yeah, at our
(12:13):
first at the first band show we ever played band.
That is so the very very early era when I
was like seventeen years old. Playing that era, it was
Lily and me playing as a duo, so without drums
and bass, it was likely no people, no people backing up,
and we were like, we want to be a rock band.
(12:36):
We keep getting compared to First Aid Kit, you know,
like kind of a folk duo. People kept like pigeonholing
us in this box of like, oh, you're two girls singing,
so you must make like indie folk music. And even
six years ago we were like, I mean I love
First ag Kit, No Shade, but we were like, there
are no girl rock bands. We really want to be
(12:57):
like a We want to be like girl Yeah yeah,
And that was the music we loved and that we
listened to. So we were like, okay, we need to
just get a band together. We need drums, we need bass,
we need distortion, we need guitars so that people will
hear us that way, because if we don't have that,
they'll just hear us as to like folk.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You can just put you into this box. So how'd
you go about finding this crew?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well, we booked a gig before we had a band
together because we were like, we just need to set
a deadline. We have a show to play and we
have to play it with a band, so we have whatever.
It was a few weeks to get a drama and
a bassist and just like make up a set, and
so we of course used a couple of our friends
(13:43):
at the time, one of Lily's great friends, Maya who actually.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
She's years girl.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
We used to go, I love it big Sleigh. She
didn't know how to play bass. We were like, Maya,
we need a bass player. Yeah, and did you have.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Any music background. She's like a.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Creative person.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Stuff out, Yeah, I think so okay.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
And then our other friend Ronan played drums for us anyway,
so we just like got this ragtag team together. And
then at the first show we played as a band,
the manager that we ended up working with found us
and we kind of just like started working with him
straight away, which meant that we weren't playing as many
of those like.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, you were going into you were getting proper jobs, Yeah,
bigger jobs at this point.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, because I think when we started working with with
a manager, then he linked us up with our first agent,
who's amazing and we still work with to this day.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And he what is the agent? What does the agent
do for you? Guys?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Okay, so an agent books shows to just kind of
like manage your career and.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The strategy and really, okay, cool cool.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
The agent is like literally just for playing live, like
they organize support to us and live shows and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So they eating a cut of your gig kind of
thing everyone, And now I'll get a cut.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Everyone gets it cut everyone.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, we've got to make it worth it. So wait, Grace,
can people do dodgy stuff to get up a bit higher?
Like you got lucky?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
She goes with the conspiracies?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Do you reckon that people were doing funky things?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
What? What's a funky thing? What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Okay, well there's some people in Hollywood that I can
think of that. Shut up real quick, a k A.
One direction just bibor, Like, is there do you think
people are doing funky things to get to the top?
Do you think there's industry plants?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Like one hundred, one hundred percent there would be. I've
never met anyone who's like, hello, I'm an industry plan.
They're not going to tell you, are they?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I don't know, and I could be for all we know.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, maybe you guys plans do you know of? No,
you don't know. I heard that's the problem. People conspire
that so and so like that hoc too girl.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, and even that another girl that does a podcast,
Bobby all Top. I've heard everyone.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Said that Bobby was she just came out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Okay, I have a question for you. Yeah, what does
an industry plant actually mean? Like an industry plant for.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Whose Well, somebody who's like a manager or somebody who
has connections. This is my perception of it. Somebody who's
like well connected would grab somebody who they see has
has possibilities and they would invest time and money and
like getting them well known so that they make money
(16:40):
in extase.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
They can get speed track to the top. But let
me hold you there. You can't to the start of
your explanation. They're talking about. That's kind of everyone that
ends up within like the TV industry, radio industry, some
other podcasts. Like people managers or people might see you
and they might you know that you have something special, right,
(17:02):
that's anyone that I don't think that's just like we
I don't think it's fair for us to say that
you're an industry plant because someone just randomly picked you
because they saw something in you. That's kind of all
of us.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, I understand, but I think it's like at a
higher level, they get the money and there, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Essentially, they're saying that if we we would be an
industry plant. If Tilly and I got picked up, they
saw something in us, this huge industry with big backing,
saw that funneled all of this money into us, and
we ended up on YouTube in two weeks with a
million subscribers or something, right.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yes, yeah, exactly, dude, that's like Bobby, Like, of course
Bobby did well. She just randomly got Drake on her podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, it was it was out.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Of nowhere, so no shit, like somebody helped her, like
somebody saw potential in that, or like saw potential in
her and was like, I've got the money, I've got
the contacts, I've got the backing to push this. But yeah,
Grace back to the music. Have you seen any of
that stuff or do you hear of that sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I don't know, No, I don't think to that level.
But I think in the music industry and probably in yeah,
like any creative industry, there's always the thing of like
there's some crazy power dynamics at play, and I think
they are pretty they can be pretty dire. I think
in the music industry. The music industry has a very
rough trot when it comes to like gender imbalances, which
(18:24):
we might get to you later, but I think that
maybe that's one of the ways that that kind of
plays out in the music industry. Like if producers or
managers or label heads or whatever have positions of power
that can be dangerous for the artists that they work
with or you know, other people on their team or whatever,
because it's totally political. These people have a lot of
(18:46):
player blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
These are the things you hear about. I don't know
if you watch like oh Paul Marilyn Monroe, like so
many sad things that these people had to do, or
like all the stuff that's coming out on what's that
not Netflix? It starts within that we were when we
were kids. It was all the Nickelodeon stuff coming out,
(19:12):
Like there's a there's a full series called Quiet on set.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I have seen about and yeah, a lot of the
treatment and the mistreatment, I.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Guess exactly, like exactly, I know it very carefully because
like the stuff that was done to them like people
were having to like I don't know, Like it's just
like the Olympians with the coaches, like just dodgy stuff
going on. Totally, Yeah, like exploitation of younger children and
(19:44):
it's like, oh, if so and so is willing to
do this, they'll get put up high or whatever, like
it's kind of giving Jeffrey Epstein totally.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I think there's a dark underbelly to a lot of
the industries where people I don't know what it is
tally about, like media entertainment industries, there's so often this
dark underbelly of like, yeah, I mean, what will people
do to get to the top. It's one thing, but
then like what what do people at the top do
(20:13):
to retain their power? Knowing that they hold so many
people's careers and hopes and dreams in the palm of
their hands, and they can crush them whenever they want.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Some of these people they must.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
But guys, nowadays it's not just managers and everything. There
is the power of social media everything. That's that's when
we see these overnight successes because one video goes viral
or like a trend start my.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I saw.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I have seen this being talked about and I've spoken
to my cousin because he is a DJ in London
and Grace, I just feel like you are in the
niche of the music industry that would relate to this,
because apparently if you are in music, you these people
are saying that you lose respect if you're a TikTok
(21:13):
djer or like you've made your money from social media.
People want people that have put in the hard work
and the groundwork and made their way up. Is the
is this a thing? Like are people I don't know,
Do you get what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
That's a great question. So you're saying, like some people,
some musicians are rejecting using TikTok or social media because
they think it's lame, incredible.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's what they've been told that if you know TikTok dj,
it's like, oh.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Viral, then it's like, oh you didn't. That doesn't care.
It's just Okay, that's a great That is such a
good question. Okay. From my perspective, I'm like, Okay, that
makes sense. I can picture a musician, a DJ and
artist being like, I'm not going to post on TikTok
or social media because that's and like I don't want to.
(22:02):
You know, I'm not a brand, I'm just an artist.
Blah blah blah. From my perspective, the reality is and
I feel like this is like generally just an accepted
fact these days. Social media is no longer a luxury.
I don't think it's something that you can choose not
to use. I think that these days the sad reality
(22:25):
is whether you like it or not. Artists are also creators,
like you have to be both and that though, is
it a sad reality? Well, Maley, I think it's a
sad reality as an artist. Maybe not for all artists,
but some artists are like I just want to make music.
I don't want to I just came here to write
songs and like make albums. Or I just came here
(22:45):
to like to paint, you know, and go to gallery.
I don't want to have to have a TikTok presence
because that's a whole other kettle of fish that like,
I never signed up for. But the reality okay, But
then the reality is like Kurt Cobain never had a
TikTok account because TikTok didn't exist. But also the media
(23:06):
landscape was so different back then, Like you get an article,
you get radio play, all of that was your avenue
to success. And nowadays that media landscape like has totally
changed and that's not how it works anymore. So it's
kind of like, if you can't beat them, join them,
and you just have to Yeah, you just have to
find a way of doing it that like is enjoyable
(23:29):
and fun and like authentic to you. But I also
understand why it's a frustrate a frustrating. Have you heard
of like Callsey or someone had her album held hostage
by her label because they were like, oh, you have
to like increase your TikTok Oh that's why.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Okay, that's that's annoying. I get that part. But I
was going to say the benefits, like the benefits of
obviously these social media platforms like I just you know, exponential.
You can't even put a put a tag on where
your popularity can go, where your the ears that your
music can reach, the money that you can acquire, Like,
(24:13):
I think, there's so many, so many, so many benefits.
Great point, though, Grace, they're saying that, I guess now
the mainstream media and radio and stuff that's more of
a niche market. Again, there's this power dynamic or politics
into into the people that they do choose that go
on radio. I'm sure. So I do get that it
can be harder to go that way and they kind
(24:33):
of force down this, I guess path of TikTok and
Instagram even against totally.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Totally, but I just think, oh God, if you want
to be an artist and you don't want to be
on social media, like I just don't know, that's like
just such a big pillar of like how you share
your music or whatever it is that you make with
the world, And it's kind of like, you know, what's
the point of being an artist if no one hears
your music? Like, I think there's so much to be
(25:00):
said for like music or art as a creative expression
and something that you just need to do for yourself.
There's so much value in that.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And it's art, right, You've been saying that it's meant
to be shared, it's meant to be seen in this
this beautiful organic way.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
But yeah, I mean, everyone gives themselves the ick from
their own social media presence every now and then, so maybe.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And dude, in my like, in my uneducated opinion, I
would say it's actually a disservice to yourself to not
reap the benefits of social media. Like, if you think
about it, back in the day, it would have been
like who has the money to pay for a radio slot?
But now it's like you can earn yourself that just
(25:42):
by like posting one shitty viral videos like you just
may as well. I mean, you can pay somebody to
make it for me. You don't even have to do it.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Oh that's so true, Tillie. Can I pay you to
do exactly? Yeah, because we have like no followers, And
here I am being like, you have to use so media, but.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
It's hard, like it's a solid following forgiven, you're saying
that you don't do much with that.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
We yeah, we need to get better at it.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
We're gonna come up with a social media plan here
now that you've got the album, now that you've made
the album, actually, let's let's let's rewind a little here, Grace,
how do you how do you go like? How long
does this process take? How do you get into the
process of making an album? What does that look like? Okay, great,
surface level, you don't have to go too deep, but.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
No, I won't go too deep. Okay, Well, basically we
worked with a record label. Basically we got our manager,
our agent, and like a label all in the same
like year or so, and we worked.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Year was that in?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
That was like twenty eighteen, I.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Think amazing A year in.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, And we had a record label who essentially distributes
your music and gives you money to record music. That's
basically what a record label.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
They give you this bit down payment of money to
fund your your well, they.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Give you like a signing bonus or whatever, and then
they pay for this studio, the producers whatever to record.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That is so cool. I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Do you then, within that contract as well, have a
certain amount of time or KPIs that you need to
hit in order to I guess re sign with this
record label. Like if you don't hit that, will they
stop funding?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
You know what? I don't think they are like KPIs
in the key performance indicators for those who don't know.
I don't think there are KPIs in the contract. But
I think that if your music doesn't go too well,
then you very easily fall into the you know, the
old trope of getting signed to a big, flashy record
label and then oh no, one's really it's not really
(27:36):
going the way we thought it would, and then you
just kind.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Of a little bit, we need to hit some because
they'll have.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
You know, most of the time, labels have their main
artists on their rosto who they focus on and pour
a lot of time and energy resource because that's who
makes the money, which, like from the business side of things,
makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, why else would you reino people?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
So I think a label can be great because recording
music is really expensive. So we did a couple of peas,
we did a string of singles with our label, and
we ended up leaving our label last year, I think,
and that was cool. That was like, oh my gosh.
(28:18):
We we have this sense of like freedom and we
can kind of do things on our own terms and
totally independent, Like there's something really exciting about diy whatever.
And of course the flip side of that is we're
free and we can do whatever we want, and now
we have no money. How the hell are we going
(28:39):
to fund an album? We got really lucky. We applied
for a grant. So from who someone's an artist out there,
have a look, there are all sorts of like creative
government run grants.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
We got a government.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Then god, my tax is paying for something good exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Seriously, we got an awesome grant from Sounda South Wales
that was the recording and Promotion grant and that basically
gave us the money that we needed to record an album.
So we were in a really lucky position where we
were like, oh my gosh, we're creatively free and we
have funding.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That's just like dreams.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
That's dreams because so much of the time it feels
like an uphill battle and the overheads are so high,
and he pours so much into it and there's not
a lot of financial return. Surprise, surprise. So that's basically
how we got to do it. And then from there
we were working with a producer who's in Melbourne. We
were sending versions of songs backwards and forth for like
(29:38):
a month or so, so like I would do pre
production and kind of record basically like a dodgy version
of our song which just sounds a bit shit, ye,
and send that to him. He would add drums, send
that to me. We'd give him notes and then we
spent a week in Melbourne at his studio recording vocals
and da data. So there's like a whole creative process
(30:01):
that takes I guess a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So you write your own music? Yeah, yeah, okay, just quickly.
I did see a TikTok of this guy on a
podcast complaining because he was like, I've written all these
songs for like Usher and stuff, and he's made millions
and I've made two thousand dollars for the song. Right,
what's your opinion on that?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Because I think.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I don't know what it was on.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
But yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
In my opinion, you're signing up to write this song.
Usher has the platform. I think you should be credited,
and I think you should get a percentage ongoing or something. Yeah,
this is like, what's your actual opinion on that? I'm
very interested.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
So it is such a thing. How does someone become
a back room songwriter? It's a career that not many
people even know exists. Like, you know, the biggest pop
stars in the world most of the time probably aren't
writing their own songs, or at least would have a
lot of writers.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
So much about Drake Kevin, I wrote some.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Of the Yeah Williams's writing credits every song on History.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Perry writes for every yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Most of the time, if you get a writing credit,
then you get a cut of the royalties for every song,
and that's that's the way that it should be.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
And you know what you're signing up for. I think
a flat out feet sucks because it might be a
one hit wonder I might do well forever, Like whatever,
do you sign a five percent away? I think that's
pretty solid, and that's what you're doing. You don't have
the same platform as these bigger singers, So if you
had released the song, would it have performed that way?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Maybe?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Not sure. And a lot of people are like very
very talented songwriters. It's such a skill to be able
to write a hit or write a great pop song.
Not everyone wants to be an artist. Not everyone wants
to perform those songs, so obviously for them, it makes
sense to give it to someone else.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And you know, it's cool when someone's like, oh, so
like that song was actually written for Billie Eilish, but
like somebody else performed it. I love hearing that song,
like it's like that song was written for somebody else.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
It's cool, totally.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I think a lot of the I just like a
lot of these these women and and like in this
industry is so cool. You were you were touching on
it before though, Grace, Sorry, we're completely shifting gears here
because I was just thinking when you said, Billy, what's
it like for someone like Billy or someone like yourself.
That's why we have you in this position as a
woman being in this industry.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Just acknowledge that. Mally just.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Absolutely, for the record, absolutely she actually does but.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Gives Billy eilish. Is that like not a compliment?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
She tearly says, my aura gives Billy. Is someone writing
this down?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We've got ghost writers here, honestly, what what is that
balance or imbalance, like you know, with with between women
and men within the industry. Have you got like, oh,
notes on that? I'm sure you do.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah, oh girl, I've got notes. I've got notes.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
She's got PhDs on it.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I got PhDs. You know who does have PhDs on it?
My sister. My sister is doing her pH d. I
don't know what's happened. My family's turning into a family
of doctors, every tiving doctor Richards and doctor Broad And
then it's just going to be oh yeah, and then
there's Grace just like doing nothing exactly whose life is
a train wrecker. Someone's got to do it, you know,
(33:35):
she's so. My sister Lily, who is in my band,
clues with me. She's doing her pH d on gendered
harm in the music industry, and I'm not going to
take things too Yeah, we don't need to go down
into the depths of dispair, but it is important to note.
It's important to know. I think that basically, in a nutshell,
(33:57):
the music industry is male dominated at every single level
of the industry.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So the pay gap and everything, the pay gap.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I think representation is like
a really big thing as well, Like there just aren't
as many women in the industry as men. So on
the one hand, there's an example like look at your
classic festival lineup, Who were the artists that are playing?
How many females onto that stage and how many of
them are men?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Every festival when I was younger was always boys.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
It's always boys, even in Australia Cooked.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Festival.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I was, and I think that.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Sorry, But when I saw Scissor, I saw Scissor two
years ago, she was in the smallest writing, at the
very bottom.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Of the thing.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Dave was at the top, big fucking way, Like, I
don't even know.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Of my favorite we're all over.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
So I get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah, but but yeah, the the actual artists on lineups
and playing live, the gender imbalance there is one thing.
But then I can't tell you how many times we
have played a bill of five artists and we're the
only girls on the bill. Okay, So that's one thing.
(35:24):
And I think that is something that is like people
are becoming more aware of, and it's definitely like probably
moving in the right direction, but I think there's still
ways to go, and it still happens. But then you
walk off the stage, Okay, you put down your guitar,
you walk off the stage, you go backstage, and everyone
behind the stage is a guy, like most of the time,
(35:46):
because you got to think there are stage managers, there
are crew, there are sound people, there are you know,
just like all the tech guys, all the tech guys
behind managers. It's just like at every single level of
the industry, it is male dominated. And that's just a fact.
So I think that that experience is pretty interesting, and like,
I just think of situations when we were younger, especially
(36:10):
because I do think the dials moving in the right
direction and there is some awesome work being put into
balancing the scales. But like, you know, one time I
was playing a show and one of the crew people
came up to me and just said, like, oh, do
you know how to use your amp? Why? That's like
such a tiny but it's a great example of like
(36:32):
it's my amp.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Like I know to a man and asked the same question,
who know.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
How to use your dick?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
No, I wish I had been quick enough to it.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That would be.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
If I could turn back time.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That would feel good good bye.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
But there's one of the times you have to shut
your mouth. Yeah, you wouldn't say even wanted to.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
You wouldn't. And I do think that it's just such
a thing of like I don't know, there's just so
many situations where like if we had our drumma and
our bassist were male, and you know, we'd get to
a venue and the venue people would like talk to them,
and it's.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Like God, it's like it goes Lily and me, like
you have to talk to us.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
We're the ones who are anyway. So there are little
moments like that. But I think the piece that's missing
from this conversation a lot of the time is like
why it matters? Because I think it's one thing to say,
like the music industry is dominated whatever. We all know
that's obvious. I think the reason that matters is because
people get hurt because that's the environment they work in.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
They're in a male dominated environment.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, and it becomes like unsafe, and well it can
become unsafe and and I mean Lily and me have
had like such a positive experience being in this industry,
we really have, but I actually feel like we've been
probably like quite lucky to get to say that, which
is like, so that's like an awful thing to feel
(38:04):
like you've been lucky. But it also probably depends what
genre you're I don't know anyway, it's it's it's pretty
real like at some point in their career in the
contemporary music industry, fifty five percent of the Music Industry
Review survey this big survey participants, fifty five percent experienced
(38:25):
some sort of workplace sexual harassment. This includes seventy two
percent of women survey participants and thirty nine percent of
male survey partients. So it's like, oh, there's just it
breeds this environment where stats like that are commonplace.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, and it's people's lives and it's people's lives.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So that's what I would say about that. It's interesting,
but it's been also beautiful and all the boy bands
are incredible.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
It's not like, ye, we don't need that's not and.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
It's not about being like, oh, look at this person
on this line up. You know that's a boy band amazing.
But it's just there's got to be a bit of
work into balancing the scales so that everyone has a safe,
enjoyable time.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
You no, I reckon just before we go, give one
quick tip if there is any girls here that want
to get into the music industry, Like, what's your one tip?
What should they do than telling really good some good advice? Okay,
how did they.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Go about it? If you're a girl who wants to
get into the music industry, I would say having mentors
who are experienced in this industry is really important, and
if they can be female, that's really great. Do some research,
find out what artists you admire, find out what female
(39:45):
managers you admire, and go network with them. Take them
out for a coffee and pick their brain and ask
them this question as well, ask them what advice they
would give. I think it's really important to have a
network around you, who you can trust and rely on,
and who'll give you some some guidance because there isn't
a blueprint to follow. There isn't a map for how
to navigate this industry a lot of the time when
(40:07):
you're starting out. So I would say, get a support
system and also yeah, probably like don't take just don't
take ship from people and not in a I think,
just like, try and try and be sure on yourself
and know that you totally deserve to be there. The
(40:28):
dial is changing, You're being part of this way, know
your value, You're going to be part of this changing tide.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
And yeah, the time is now, The time is now.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
It's never been better. So I would say be optimistic.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
But.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Keep your eyes peeled maybe or something.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, aware, go for it.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, so they could just DM like a music manager
or something even I.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Reckon, Yeah, for sure, like any industry. Yeah, that's what
I do.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Wow, if I want to talk to someone, just quickly
shoot him and damn why not?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah? Why not? Right? Why not? Why not?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
All right?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
We got to Yeah, let's wrap here, grace, Oh look
at this. We've got flowers and chocolates coming into studio
live for Grace.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, you can come in.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
We want to thank you for everything you've done for us.
This is beautiful. Is that Indy is Indy over there? Oh,
the whole gang? But me, I mean, I'm alone soldiering this.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
We're still recording. You can be in there.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
We're wrapping it right now. Let's wrap as a team, guys.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Actually, okay, so every.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Tell everybody to say hello.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Looked in with a big bunch of flowers and chocolates
for me.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Like, guys, I'm going to rap as we're doing this. Guys,
thank you for listening. Grace. You are so so beautiful.
You deserve more than just flowers and chocolates. You mean
so much to us on this podcast and the way
that you've kept us on the tracks over these last
couple of months. Grace, we can't thank you enough, truly.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
So, oh my god, you're so so Now. Jay's just
leaving this year.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
He just hands me the we love you.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I love you, guys.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You're lost. But I'll obviously be listening every single week
and I'll talk to you guys literally tomorrow literally literally,
So it's see you soon. It's not goodbye, and.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
And let's manifest.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Let's manifest love follow US on socials. Thank you, keep
keep riding this train with us. We'll see you soon.
Literally not goodbye, we'll see you soon. Bye bye.
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