Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
True Crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and
waters that this podcast was recorded on. It's a Saturday
afternoon in August twenty sixteen, and Tera Yule has finished
up her shift at Rebel Run, a dog kennel in
Newport Beach. She has exciting plans tonight. She's off to
see one of her favorite country stars perform with a friend. Cash,
(00:29):
her miniature Australian Shepherd, jumps into the back seat of
her Toyota Prius for the five kilometer drive home. As
she pulls into her car park, she notices an unfamiliar car.
Her dog starts growling as they spot a man fidgeting
in the back. Maybe he's homeless, she thinks, living in
his car. As she hops out of the driver's seat
(00:51):
and makes towards the exit, the man grabs her around
the waist, looking her straight in the eye as he says,
do you remember me? It's John Meehan, her mother's estranged husband,
A man and she and her sisters discovered and unveiled
as a serial con man and criminal, a man she
has feared for a long long time. She struggles, but
(01:16):
he's bigger, stronger, he covers her mouth, she bites him.
He starts stabbing her with a large knife again and
again and again. Terror fights for her life. As a
second drag by, she finds herself on the floor. Kicking
up at John with sturdy work boots. She manages to
knock the knife out of his hand. It lands right
(01:38):
by her.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I didn't give her a second fight, and it just
started whirling on him and stabbing him. Kase now that
if I didn't fade back and learn him, he would
continue to try to hurt me and possibly kill me.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I'm Jimmy Bath and this is true Crime Conversations Amom
of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes
by speaking to the people who know the most about them.
Tara Nule fatally stabbed John Miihan thirteen times in total.
Her last blow went straight through his eye. Of all
(02:27):
of Deborah Yule's four children, Terror was seen as the
most softly spoken, the least competitive, the sweet one who
had never hurt a fly. But at the age of
twenty five, she killed a man who tried to take
her life in an act of self defense. Orange County
Prosecutor Matt Murphy once told us on this very podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
That's one of the few cases that truly, you know,
when you were homicides, you see a lot of really
sad things, and that was the happiest ending I encountered
in almost two decades doing that work.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
This was a man who had a kidnapped kit waiting
for her in that car, complete with duct tape, weapons
and cable ties. A man who had a detailed, terrifying
criminal past which was only further revealed after his death.
A man who sold himself to her mother as a
successful anesthesiologist who'd worked with doctors without borders, a devoted Christian,
(03:25):
and a dedicated father. In reality, he was a nurse,
not a doctor, who'd had his license permanently revoked and
had strained relationships with his children. Today, we're going to
hear from Terror, nearly a decade on from Stopping Dirty John,
which is the name of the podcast that first made
this story go viral. But first a bit of background
(03:47):
on Mehan. His first bout in prison was for stealing drugs.
His first wife discovered he'd been using his job as
a nurse to steal them from hospitals to get high.
After their divorce in two thousand and one, he started
stalking and extorting another woman he started dating, and went
to prison for a few months in twenty fourteen for
crimes against her. Once out, he turned his sights on
(04:09):
Deborah Mule, a successful and wealthy interior designer looking for
love after four failed marriages. Her daughter Terror joins us. Now, Terror,
this all happened to you and your family in your
early twenties. You're now in your thirties. How do you
(04:30):
feel about it reflecting on it now all these years later.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It's interesting because true crime, the story is never over
in a sense, and I'm still learning stuff to this day.
And it's interesting also because at first, when I went
through my story, it was slightly triggering but very cathartic.
And now I'm to the point where me just going
(04:58):
through my attack and going through the hospital it doesn't
benefit my mental health anymore. It just triggers me further
instead of helping like it used to.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
But if you found that over the years, you've learnt
where those boundaries are, perhaps you've tested them a bit more,
saying more than you want and then realized, oh I
need to peel back. Has that been a bit of
a journey for you?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
It has a little bit. But now it's interesting because
I still have things that come up. When I talk
about the attack, I'll slightly remember, oh, something else, And
it's interesting because I'm still piecing together that memory. Because trauma,
(05:47):
the brain likes to block out the trauma that happens,
so I can't see it fully as if someone who
was watching it might see it. But that person also
might block things from their memory too, because that's a
witness witnessing a trauma, So that's a trauma itself.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So interesting how the brain protects you as well. Yes,
I want to go back to the start. Do you
remember the first time you heard about John.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yes, I was on the phone with my sister, actually, Jacqueline,
and she was talking about how Mom met someone new.
She doesn't really like him. And then it's funny because
then I talked to my mom and then my mom's
telling me, oh, I met someone new, I really like him.
Jacqueline doesn't like him, and it's just like a sisters
(06:42):
and mom going back and forth and talking about like, oh,
like I met this guy, and then my sister never
liked anyone, and so I took what she was saying
with the grain of salt. But I also didn't expect
for him to be the real greatest guy r.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
They met on an online dating site. Yes, how did
you feel about her finding love online? I assume what
you're alluding to there is she had a bit of
a history with men and dating, and you guys had
always kind of like watched on from the sidelines.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, well, we were well, not from the sidelines in
a sense, I say, sometimes we were involved with giving
our opinion to my mom, involved with why is he
doing this, why is he doing night? He shouldn't be
doing that, and just being uber opinionated.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Walk me through your family. You've mentioned your sister. Where
were you and your siblings at in twenty fourteen and
how close were you to your mom?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So during this time, I was working at a dog kennel.
I think I was also maybe working I like a
pet store during this time, but I think I left
because then you started to gain awareness about pet stores
and how the ethical nature of them and selling dogs,
(08:20):
and I didn't really care for the standards that the
dogs were living in. So I was either working or
in transition during that time. I ended up moving to
Vegas with my boyfriend at the time, and then so
we were like newly in Vegas working in the TV
(08:40):
and film industry, and then I was also working as
a dog groomer. And then my sister was in a
relationship at the time, still in that relationship, and then
my other siblings they were they probably had kids around
like eight to like six to like eight or ten,
(09:03):
like those ranges.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So everyone was kind of living busy, separate lives.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes, Like everyone was just living their own life. And
so my mom was really alone. She was really not
having as much family time as she was used to,
and so she needed to also create her own life
for herself.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So your sister Jacqueline was the first one of the
siblings to kind of have some strange interactions with him. Yeah,
can you explain some of those.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes, So my sister she met him the first night.
They went on a day actually, and he showed up
to the apartment. She didn't really prefer his look. She
said that he was wearing khakis and that he just
presented himself in a different way. He was also looking
around scoping out the apartment, and to her, she just
(10:01):
noticed that he seemed super interested in her safe and
also just like the penthouse and just asking her maybe
a little too many questions.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So your mom and Johan moved in together up to
Diting for about two ish months, and initially they tried
to Kate that a bit of a sacret. Can you
tell me about your trip to visit them for Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yes, So I actually had a trip the week prior,
and that's the week that I helped them move into
their apartment with my boyfriend Jimmy at the time, and
then our dogs and we stayed there. It seemed like
John was moving in. My mom denied it at the time. However,
(10:50):
I don't even know if she knew he was moving in,
and because he had so little stuff. He had like
a box and then his grooming bag, and then he
had a few clothing items, so I don't think in
her head she even thought he was moving in. I
(11:10):
think she just thought he was staying. He all there
all the time, that it was okay because it's a
new relationship. She didn't want to go to Indio, and
he told her that he lived in Indio, so she thought, oh,
he could stay out here and I get to get
away from my daughter. Because Jacqueline was having an issue
(11:31):
with them being in the apartment, together. She wanted her
space and her privacy, and she also wanted to create
boundaries with my sister, which is considered healthy and normal, you.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Know, because your sister was living with your mom during
that period.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yes, so she moved away to create these boundaries with
my sister, and he essentially moved in. But I kept
on saying things to my mom, like, oh, are you
sure he's not moving in? And she would kept denying
it to me. And then the next week we came back,
(12:14):
me and my boyfriend and our dogs. We came back
to celebrate Thanksgiving, and so the day prior, I went
and did all the grocery shopping. I got all the groceries.
Then John came back with my mom because John was
(12:35):
at the hospital, and also I was at my sister's hairdresser,
and she also was my hairdresser and my mom's, and
then she did John's hair as well, and John said
a lot of interesting things to her. He just didn't
(12:55):
seem like a great guy to her, and so we
were kind of gossiping about that and talking about my
mom's relationship and how we just didn't like him, and
we were questioning why was he using my mom's cars
why is he basically moving in. We just had all
(13:19):
these questions, and also where was all his stuff if
he said he was a doctor and an anesthesiologist and
all these things, So we just had questions. I went
back to the house and then my mom comes home
from the hospital with John, and then they kind of
(13:42):
peek in the doorway. Me and John have some words,
my mom has some words, and basically I end up
leaving and I go to my sister's and I'm disinvited
to Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
What kind of language was he using with you that
really upset you?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Made you kind of think to us?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I was having a conversation with my mom and then
he came up behind her and then just started accusing
me of wanting my mom all to myself. And then
there was a lot of f hughs and stuff thrown
around from both parts, and it just my boyfriend at
(14:25):
the time was even asked a few questions as well
from my mom, and we essentially just left because it
didn't seem like we were welcome there anymore, and then
it was It was honestly a very traumatic memory for
me in that time because it created a trauma around Thanksgiving.
(14:48):
Essentially forever, right, What.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Do you think your mom saw in him? Because obviously
you and your siblings were in love with him. You
were on the outside, so you could say all of
this stuff happening, But she was in love with him.
What do you think she saw in him?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
He was rather good looking. I guess for it's hard
to say that because he's not my type. I've never
seen him. How can I be attracted to my mom's man?
(15:26):
I don't know. I mean, I guess I could think, like, oh,
like he's a good looking man, like George Clooney. He's
a good looking man.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
He obviously traded her. Well, do you think he even
loved bombed her? Like he just kind of doted on
her so much that she didn't see the bad sides. Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes, No, he definitely love bombed her. He would give
her coffee drinks every morning. He would just give her
all this praise and affection. And when you're getting that
hit of dopamine in oxytocin, then you're just kind of
glued at first, and you're thinking, oh my gosh, this
(16:03):
person's going to be a great partner. So he was
love bombing her and doing all the things that a
guy should do in her relationship.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
At first, things kind of kept spiraling after Thanksgiving, you know.
Then we go into Christmas and he was really trying
to poison yours and your sister's relationship with your mom,
(16:34):
wasn't he.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yes, No, he was starting to isolate my mom away
from her family, because that was one of the steps
of trauma bonding her is getting her isolated and away
from her family. So then he's going to start to
bring up problems about the kids, be like, oh, the
kids are like this, and also he was saying that
(16:58):
the kids wanted your money and this and that, and
also he would take my mom's gift cards and style
and then just blame it on us, which is funny
because we weren't around, so how was that possible? But
John was so good at convincing someone that their reality
(17:23):
was a different reality, you know, he was so good
at gaslighting.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
They ended up getting married quite quickly as well. Do
you remember when you found out about that, because they
also tried to keep that a bit of a secret
for a while.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, when we hired the private investigator, we ended up
finding out that my mom was married to him, and
we knew then that it was going to be so
much harder for her to leave this relationship. And that
was a little that was like about a week after
(17:55):
the incident with Thanksgiving, that's when they got married. Yes,
about a week after Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Wow, tell me about hiring that privaty investigator. That's a
big nick step to be, Like, I don't luck my
mom's boyfriend to rot. Let's get an expert in here,
let's find some good.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah. So my brother in law, he actually hired the
private investigator, and my sister was also gathering information help
not helping the private investigator, but just kind of doing
her own research alongside him. And so my mom ended
(18:38):
up marrying him, and so we brought the stuff to
her after that, but we didn't really let her know
that we knew she was married. We kept that as
a secret as well. And then all this stuff was
given to her. She ended up leaving him, living with
(18:58):
my sister and her children for a while, and then
my brother in law and then he was actually able
to convince her that all these things that we found
were different. John Meehands And it's actually crazy because there
is a lot of John Miehans out there.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Can we talk a little bit about what you uncovered,
because it wasn't just a few misdemeanors. It was an
extensive criminal history, drug charges, multiple prison stays, a history
of scamming women, stalking, harassment, restraining orders, theft, like I
(19:41):
could keep going there was so it was such a
long list of kind of charges and allegations. How did
you feel when all of that kind of came to
light and how did it come to light?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I think for me, I didn't realize the extent of it,
but I knew he was bad. I had a bad
feeling about him. I was living on the edge of
just being in fear and feeling like someone was going
to come after me all the time. And so it
(20:18):
really just confirmed everything that we were feeling and feeling
like we were crazy thinking because at first my family,
my other family members, my brother in law and my sister,
well I have a couple of sisters, but my other sister,
whose husband hired the private investigator, they just didn't believe
(20:40):
my sister and I for a minute. So it was
really I hate to say great, but it was you're
not crazy with how you're.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Feeling, right, what's validiting, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yes? You have fact, yes, and scary, too, super scary.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Did you have to sit your mom down and kind
of light this so loud?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I was living in Vegas at the time, and so
I didn't sit her down. My brother in law did,
and I think my sister Jack was there and they
showed her everything, and then well I think it was
actually more so my sister and Nicole. She they kind
(21:27):
of had a conversation with my mom and then my
mom learned about everything, because I really wasn't there for
that moment because of just living in a different state.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
And what was the plan? Like, your mom was shocked
obviously when she saw all of this, and there was
kind of a bit of a rock Well, we need
to get you out, we need to extricate you. What
was that plan? What did that look like?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
So it looked like they had to get this stuff
out of the Balboa Place because he was now living
there and they had to move him out as well.
So one of the days my mom just kind of
packed everything up, got her stuff out of there, and
(22:20):
then my dad ended up helping her rents out the
place to one of his friends, so his friend moved
in there instead, and then my mom went lived with
my sister for a moment, so that he could also
not be around. You know, with the street that they
live on, it's a cool to sac. Everyone knows each other,
(22:43):
and so it was also a sense of safety for
her to be there, especially given everything that she found out,
and so she just kind of went about her life.
It just tried to stay a little bit more safe
because he did it really threaten her or anything quite yet.
(23:11):
I mean, he would say stuff to her and be
mean to her and put her down, but he didn't
come out with the threats quite yet, other than saying
stuff about my sister and saying that he would shoot
my sister with a sniper rifle and stuff. But he
(23:33):
didn't make direct threats to my mom quite yet. It
was just more so about my sister.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Did you ever imagine a scenario wish she would go
back to him, given what you found out and given
the way he reacted saying stuff like that about your sister.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yes, I did, because I was in a toxic relationship before,
and I was with someone that wasn't a great person,
and you just want to see the best in them,
and you know, it takes an average time of a
woman to leave an abusive relationship seven times, and I
(24:18):
know so many more women that have literally it's taken
them twenty times. And you know, there's still women that
are with their abusers. So it's not easy to leave
at all, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think it's really easy for people to judge something
like that from the outside if they haven't experienced it.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yes, I agree.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
The coercion that's involved, the love bombing that comes in
ultimately their emotions at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Right, Yes, And I agree there's even women that I
come across that are in a coheresive, controlled relationship and
they are the ones also judging these women. So I
think it's more just nuanced than that, because it's a
lot of people also into nile like, oh, that person's
(25:08):
not a bad person, that person can't be abusive. You
know how many celebrities do We even see the air
abusers and because they have this celebrity status and they
create this familiarity with the brain with people, and people
cannot think that, say, Armie Hammer is an abuser.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
How did you feel though when you heard that she'd
gone back.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I honestly was just like okay, because there was signs, right,
and we didn't find out right away that she just
went back. You know, there was a little sneaking around.
There was like, oh, I'm not available at this time.
I'm like, okay, why are you not available?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Did you have much to do with your mom? Because
she kind of went back and it was like another
night or so months that she was with him. Did
you see them much? Were you involved?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So she was like with him for five months?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Oh up?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So five months what she was like originally with him
and then she left him found all all the stuff
about him because she literally met him in like September
and then like November. So you might be right with
(26:32):
like the six weeks meeting him September and then like
a week or two later they get married after Thanksgiving,
and then she leaves him March seventh, and then they
get back together, but I think it takes like a
(26:54):
couple months and then literally she leaves him again on
March seventh. The next year.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You're listening to True Cra Conversations with me Jemba buff
I'm speaking with Tara Yule, who fatally stabbed her mother's
a strange husband in twenty sixteen in an act of
self defense. Up next, Tara tells us about the second time,
her mother decided to leave John, this time for good.
(27:25):
So they've been together for you know, over a year
by then, with a break in between. The second time
your mum left though, she was quite scared, wasn't she.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yes, No, we found out more information because by this
time we're finding out more so his rap sheet and
everything is true because before he took her to a
lawyer and the lawyer explained like, oh, these are different
John me Hans as well, So he had a lawyer
in his pocket. Because John's favorite thing to do was
(27:59):
get lawyers disbarred. He just loved to like threaten them,
say I'm gonna do this, and he was very successful
at getting several lawyers di barred as well.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
So he would use that to kind of coerce your
mom and i'm assuming of the women into thinking he
was a quote unquote good guy. Oh yes, oh yes,
so your mom left for that second time. How did
he react then? Was that when the threat started coming in?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yes, that's when the threats really started coming in because
he even said to my mom, hit me, hit me,
and then basically telling her if she hit him, she
would never get up again. But he wanted her to
hit him, you know, she left, and she left with
like one shoe and a bag full of stuff. And
(28:51):
by this time they got a dog together, and now
they're living at their Irvine Spectrum and they also have
a house in Vegas as well together. And so this
time my mom went and met up with my sister Jacqueline,
and they drove straight to Vegas to go get the stuff.
They called up my mom's workers, and my mom's workers
(29:12):
were great and just there for her as well, and
they go to Vegas. My sister films everything and then
they pack up the house and so I I'm just
getting phone calls and hearing like, Okay, Mom got her stuff.
Jacquelin's more so calling me and being like we got
(29:35):
all the stuff. I filmed everything so that Shawn doesn't
have evidence or think that we ruined everything. Everything was
kind of calculated at this point because we knew that
he was a bad person and that he could literally
screw us over, and so we wanted to be very
(29:56):
careful and just document everything. And then my mom ended
up living with my sister up until he came after me,
and then well we were still living together even after
John came after me.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Did she involve the police at this stage.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yes, No, my mom was trying to get restraining orders.
John had also lit her jag wire and fire and
Irvine and there was a police report and a detective
was working on that as well, and so there was
lots of reports. But and I even made a report
(30:41):
about John too as well, because now I was back
in Newport. I broke my ex broke up with me,
and so I was just we were all kind of
in the same area now, and the police just wouldn't
take us seriously, even though this guy had a wrap.
(31:04):
She And then I remember my sister called the police, Jacqueline,
and we were living in the same apartment complex at
this time, and I just remember the cop coming and
telling us basically that you needed three harassment suits in
order to get a restraining order against someone here in
the States or in California.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Three Yes, so someone can do it one time, they
can do it a second time. A the time is
when they'll act. Yes, that's wild, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Uh huh? Yeah? Now, but it's it's interesting because the
perpetrators here are more protected than anything. You know, if
you're a victim, you're basically questioned about everything yeah, you're
(31:56):
not believed, like you have to prove that this happened
to you.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Do you remember feeling why about your safety during this
time or was your assumption that if something would have happened,
it was going to happen to your mom or say Jacqueline,
because really you were the one that he hated the most,
Like he was kind of Jacqueline was off in his
grill a lot more. Even your other sister was a
(32:26):
lot more. You were kind of not as antagonistic with him.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
See, well, my other sister didn't really have anything. She
just kind of did the work, pointed out to my
mom and then tried to put boundaries with my mom.
But Jacqueline him would just get into it. They would
text each other things. They would literally like Jacqueline send
the shit Melviji to him. He would send her a
picture of her birth certificate was spit on it. And
(32:53):
then I I was trying to be like, oh, I
would love to have a conversation with him. I would
love to work things out with him, to also show
that I was willing to work on things. However he
was not.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I wanted to kind of touch on, you know, coming
into August of twenty sixteen, your sister caught John watching
the house or so it started to get a little
bit more kind of scary at that point, and your
sister was really monitoring it.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yes. No, And this was literally just a day or
two prior. And then she chased him down with her
friend on the freeway or like he got onto the
freeway and then they lost him.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
So it was days later that you found yourself face
to face with him.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yes, or just like a day or two Yes, Because
my sister had that happen, saw John, and then she
kicked my apartment right afterwards, did kind of a little
scam and was like, Okay, Tara has work in the morning,
I'm not going to bother her because I worked at
(34:13):
seven am the next day. Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I know that. At the start, you said that you
find it hard to think about the details of that time.
Does it creep up on you? Do you still dream
about it? Is it something that kind of catches you
off gods still? Or have you been able to move on?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
There are times if I'm going through our hard moments,
it's funny because relationships just love to bring up your trauma.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And I if something happens with my relationship. Well, I'm
not in a relationship at the moment, but I was
with another survivor, and when he broke up with me,
I remember seeing I remember that I had blood in
my hair for three days or like two days or whatever,
(35:05):
because I I was in the hospital for a couple
of days and I didn't take a shower or anything
in the hospital, So when I came home there was
a white I had a white marble shower at the time,
and I just remember seeing the blood go down the drain.
And it's interesting too because now since like the breakup,
(35:29):
if I see a show or anything where that happens,
it just brings me back to that moment. And then
I think, also the breakup kind of I can't go
to these certain moments anymore because it did really affect
(35:51):
my relationships at times, and I was living in fight
mode and I would just be on edge and not
be working on my trauma as much or just be likely.
I told so to fuck off at a festival before
and then all their followers came after me, and so
(36:12):
it just it doesn't benefit me to live in that
trauma anymore. And I definitely don't want to be telling
someone to fuck off at a festival.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Were you telling them to fuck off because they asked
about it?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
No, they were literally arguing with my boyfriend at the time,
and so I just wanted them to stop arguing.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
You said that you were in a relationship with someone
that was also a survivor at the start. Was that
a comfort being with someone that had also been through
something that was traumatic or did it make things harder?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Absolutely? Like, it was amazing, And it still is great
to have him as a friend in that friendship because
at the end of the day, it's funny because I
feel like, no matter who I'm with, that person's not
going to understand that part. And that's like in dating
(37:06):
before him, that was always my struggle with finding someone
is that you just did that person just didn't get
that trauma fully. And I'm sure like the guys I
dated like could have empathy for it, but call your
really got sharing our stories. Yeah, you know, and then
(37:31):
I think, you know, that relationship could have worked out
if we were in a different spot or whatever. But
I think that I definitely I only want to speak
for myself because you know, I appreciate him. He's an
amazing person, just you know, and I want to respect
his privacy in it. But for me, I definitely need
(37:54):
to work on my trauma and get myself to a
better homeostasis.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Well, Callia was also your co host, and you were
working together talking to other people about their trauma, so
you know, that's a lot to take on also, like
dealing with your own dealing with other people's trauma or
was that helpful hearing other people's stories?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
It was honestly so great. I mean, at times you
do have to take a mental health break, you know, stop.
I mean, we were really great about recording episodes because
we would take pockets. We would record for a time
period and then we would take a break, and then
we were able to also just focus on our own
(38:40):
mental health, but also be able to be in that
spot to hear the story and also relate with everyone else.
And it really actually made me at least feel like
I wasn't alone in my trauma because for so long
(39:01):
I kind of thought I was the only survivor or
only person with a troupe story. And then you go
and you meet other people and you realize you're not
so special.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Or you are special, but I guess it makes you
the emotions you're feeling, and even like that that visual
that you recalled earlier about seeing the blood, And I'm
sure there are other people that have visceral memories like
that that they're like, why is that the thing that
kind of comes back to me? It's not even the
moment from but it's like something that happened after. And
(39:36):
I'm sure you're able to relate like strange things that
your brain does. Oh yrama with these people.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah no so and it's just
crazy because you're like, oh, that happens to you, That
happens to me, and you're just able to relate and
honestly create a survivor squad and.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Which is the name of your podcast?
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yes? Which is the name, and just have a community
where you guys can not feel so alone, you know,
like Brene Brown says, when you're vulnerable and you share
your vulnerability, is like, it doesn't make it so lonely anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah. I want to rewind a little bit because there
is one aspect I want to talk to you about,
which is how on earth you learn to self defense?
Because I find this fascinating and it's something I think
we all think about. But you actually put it into action.
You learned how to defend yourself from watching TV.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yes, I am a huge TV nerd. I love The
Walking Dad and so that is where I learned to
zombie killed John. I'm sorry, it's hard to see that
without laughing.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Sometimes it's not like you you would have practiced this stuff,
like I'm assuming you would have watched the show and
it just sticks in your head.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I mean, there is a few times where my not
my last eggs call year, but my eggs. Jimmy and
I would go and literally get like watermelons and you
know that scene in Stepbrothers where they're just like cutting watermelons. Yes,
(41:29):
we wanted to do that. So there was a few
times where we did that, and I had a lot
of knives because I was always preparing for a zombie apocalypse.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
But I do think that's fascinating that you were able
to rely on. It's not like something this is something
you studied. You didn't go to a self defense class.
You load it from a TV show about zombies.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yes, yes, well, I just watched The Walking Dead so much.
I would watch the episode when it came out, then
I would watch the episode after, and then I would
watch The Talking Dead and then I would watch the
episode one more time again that night.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Look good on you, My gosh, what did healing look like?
We've touched on what it's looked like for you, but
what does it look like for your family? Because really,
you know, your mom would have had her own jotey,
but also your family unit had a lot of healing
to do.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, So I think that it really made us look
at the generational trauma even in our family because there
was a murder before my aunt was murdered by her husband.
And it's interesting to because like my cousins were about
(42:51):
the same age as Collier even and it's interesting to
see how family dynamics even affect Like I don't think
it was helpful my grandma to take in my cousins
and then for their dad to also get custody of
(43:14):
them after he got out of jail. I don't think
that that was helpful to them. And it just shows
a difference even how Caller was put into a foster home.
And so it shows even that because I think Coller
has a better view about his situation or was able
(43:36):
to cope a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
To listeners that don't know Collia had a similar situation
happened to your aunt in that his dad killed his mom. Yes,
so similar dynamic that he was dealing with.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, so you know, seeing the two similarity is I
think that there are a lot of dynamics in my
family where maybe the men have been doted on and
praised upon and the women had to appease to everything
(44:12):
and kind of just look over what was toxic.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
So do you think that your generation now and even
your mom as well like can learn from that because
it has been blasted in such a big way. Is
that helpful? Is that a helpful outcome to actually focus on? Yes?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
No, I think so one hundred percent, because my mom
and I have been able to have so many great conversations.
And my grandma even passed away this year, and you know,
she was a lovely lady, but she wasn't perfect, and
especially in the sense of her testifying for my aunt,
(45:01):
her daughter's abuser who murdered her. And so I I
think that my mom has really been able to also
take a step back and also say like that was wrong,
and my mom to do that, I mean, I still
love her as a person, but I don't necessarily agree
(45:21):
with her doing that and forgiving my sister's killer. So
I think that those conversations have been great to have,
and then just realizing because my mom is a big appeaser,
I'm a big appeaser, and just pointing that out and
(45:42):
noticing how we're breaking those generational curses in trauma.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Your story and your mom's story blew up on a
podcast called Duddy John and then a you know, a
Tabase series but You've got you know, Julia Donna playing you,
and it became internet like, it was just everywhere. I
don't think I know someone who wouldn't know the name
(46:12):
or the phrase dirty John. What was that like for
you living amongst that kind of hype when it's something
so hectic that happened to you.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
I mean, it's very interesting because working in the TV
and film industry to begin with, you're always hoping that
a project is going to get picked up, and you're
just hoping and praying for that. So when it got
picked up about my life, I was so excited. Well,
at first I wanted to have everything under wraps. We
(46:44):
had lawyers on everything, looking out for our names in
the news and ready to put gag orders on everything,
and so, you know, the La Times came to us,
we really had to give it some thought because it
is so personal and it is such a huge trauma,
and we thought that it would just help other people people,
(47:07):
and so that was really our goal, and so we
never expected it to be a TV show. We didn't
really even know what a podcast was whatsoever, to be honest,
and so it was a huge shock when everything came out,
because you're listening to this and you're not thinking it's
(47:29):
going to be as big as it is. You're thinking
it's gonna be like maybe a few hundred lessons, but
now it's over like one hundred and seventy million lessons,
and now they added like another series on top of it.
It's a shock, and it's just crazy how so many
people have opinions about your trauma. It's also interesting how
(47:54):
dirty John has been coined like a term now. Yeah,
And it's funny because people will tell me, no, that's
always been a term. I'm like, you know, like dirty
Harry has.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
But people will now come to you and say I
dated a dirty John and that sits kind of weirdly with.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
You, Yes, because to me, dirty John was the person
that I had to kill. I will always live with
that and I will like, watching someone die is not
something you ever want to do. If you've ever watched
someone die from cancer, anything, it's sad. It's so sad.
(48:41):
And to take someone's life personally, I don't wish that
upon anyone. I wish I didn't have to do that,
And unfortunately I was put into a situation where if
I didn't take his life, I would have been gone
from this planet. And so I had to do what
(49:02):
I had to do. But it's not an easy thing
to live with the trial of everything. And I just
hope people get that when they say the term dirty John,
Like the media really point that term, like really just
(49:23):
made it into kind of not a fad but like, well.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
They lightened it almost into the dating side of things,
when really this story is so much darker than that.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Yeah, you know how the Colleen who there's all the
drama with the colleen who were and it ends with
that is drama. And how in the PR scheme they
didn't want to talk about how dark and dreary domestic
violences or really talk about how like it was about
domestic violence. It's about that, it's about creating a nice
(50:02):
pr package for something, and you know, the dirty John,
it's so catching and it's really Tanya created the term
from filthy John meehan and then it turns into dirty John,
and so it's just a transition of how you kind
(50:23):
of promote stuff and then it like people are able
to relate to Well, I'm happy that people are able
to relate to it in the aspect that they had
someone that was abusive and they saw similarities. But I
would prefer for them to say I dated a dirty
(50:48):
Harry or dirty whatever. Yes, And you know, because I
have so many women that also tell me like, oh
I dated a dirty a dirty John, and I'm like, oh,
did they date John meehan? And that gets me confused,
even though because now I'm like, I wish to connect
(51:09):
with all the survivors.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
And I know we just did a whole interview about it.
But are you hopeful that one day you won't be
asked as many questions about John meehan, that that part
of your life will be able to stay in the past.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yes. I want to be a mom one day and
I don't want to make kids coming up to me
feeling what were you talking about? John Meehan and so
I definitely am looking forward to putting this story in
the past real us.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Downe thanks to Terror for telling us her story. True
Crime Conversations is a Muma mea podcast hosted and produced
by me Jemma Bass and Tarlie Blackman, with audio design
by Jacob Brown. Thanks so much for listening. Claire Murphy
will be back next week with another True Crime Conversation