February 26, 2025 • 46 mins
To some, he’s the mysterious voice behind their favourite true crime podcast (besides True Crime Conversations, of course). Others know him as ‘Casey.’ But who is Casefile's anonymous host, really? Today, we get a chance to find out a little more about him.
In this exclusive chat, ‘Casey’ and Gemma talk about why he’s kept his identity a secret, how Casefile got started, the creative process behind the show, and the cases that have had the biggest impact on him.
He might not tell us his real name, but we’re sharing his story.
THE END BITS
CREDITS
Guest: 'Casey', anonymous host of Casefile
Host: Gemma Bath
Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
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Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waders. This podcast was
recorded on to some he's known as the anonymous host.
Others have nicknamed him Casey. If you're listening to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And you're a fan of true crime, you'll probably recognize
this voice.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Asking's indicating they'd applied the patches in the lead up
to their deaths Stranger Still, the evidence suggests that the
couple had ingested, but.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The host of Australian true crime podcast case File has
kept his identity secret for nine years and so far that's.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Been working pretty well for him.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Casey might not let us tell you his real name,
but that doesn't mean we can't tell you his story.
I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations amom
of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes
(01:16):
by speaking to the people who know the most about them.
We've got a bit of a different episode for you today.
Case File is what you would call one of our
direct competitors. We both work in the Australian true crime
podcasting space and we're regularly up against them in the
various podcasting charts. They're wildly popular, often number one, with
(01:39):
people all over the world attracted to the podcast's distinct,
no frills approach to storytelling. It all started with one
typical Aussie bloke as he calls himself in his spare room,
deciding to give podcasting a go while recovering from a
sporting injury. Now the anonymous host and his team are
in the years of more than eight hundred thousand people
(02:02):
every month. He doesn't really do interviews, you'll only find
one or two on the internet, but we managed to
convinced him to come into Momma mea HQ for an
exclusive sit down chat. I don't know what I was
meeting him in real life. He wasn't not what I
was expecting. Probably more clean cut than the descriptor he
(02:25):
gives of being a typical Aussie bloke, but maybe that's
just me being too stereotypical. The feedback from my colleagues
who sneak to peak is that he's younger than they imagined.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Make of that what you will.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And when I say sneak to peak, several of my
colleagues not only hobbed, but chased this man down the
halls of our office. Honestly, there was more excitement in
here than when we have some Hollywood celebs grace our halls.
Please enjoy my chat with the anonymous host of case File.
(02:59):
I'm going to start with some quick fire questions, getting
to know you questions.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I will accept no comment if I have to.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Okay, sounds good, favorite sport, Rugby league, favorite food.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Toy.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
That was a toughie. You had to think about that.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Yeah, it was Indian maybe.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Favorite song and or artists.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Favorite song Flowers and You by touche A Moore, very specific.
It's getting quite the play at the moment. It's not new,
it's actually probably ten years old now. But good song.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Favorite thing to do on the weekend, golf, favorite place
in Australia, Blue Mountains, m TV.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Show cobra Qui what Yeah, just because it's so tacky
and cheesy, but they really lean into it. And I
was a fan of the Karate Kid movies when I
was young, so it's a bit of a nostalgia thing.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
It's like it's bad, but it's good bad.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
If you could have dinner with anyone alive or dead,
who would it be?
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Kirk Cabaine Ooh, I'm hearing a music yeah, big music fan. Yeah, well,
or actually Kirk Cobaine or Cliff Burton original Metallica basis.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Okay, Well, there we go.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I feel like I've learned more about you in the
last few minutes than I can find on the entire Internet.
And I'm not actually allowed to tell listeners your name.
It's been nine years of you making case file. Have
you ever considered just revealing who you are? Or has
it become part of the brand?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Not really, No, I guess it has become part of it,
but inadvertently it's kind of like an accident because it
was never planned. It was never supposed to be a thing,
the anonymous hosting, but it just kind of took off
into a life of its own. I guess we have
started branching out. I've done a few live appearances in
recent times. There's no photo policy, and I still don't
(05:02):
reveal myself as such. It's more just the case, false
story and that sort of thing. I'm comfortable with that.
That's been fine, But yeah, I don't think I'll ever
be a personality, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, it's very fun trying to look at what people
have kind of found out about you? Is that fun
to watch people trying to work it out?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I did get a little bit of a kick out
of it, sort of initially. I haven't looked at it
for a few years now, but there were some weird
and wild theories.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
There are out there.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Some I'm like, how do people even come up with that?
That is like completely made up?
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They stayed it like it's just so matter of fact.
It's eye opening.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Actually, well fans, is it fans that have nicknamed you Casey?
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yes? That came from listeners.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So just that came off the back of the anonymous
host thing, people like, well, who is this person?
Speaker 5 (05:59):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I can't remember if it was a Reddit thread
or a Facebook group maybe, but there's one of those,
and listeners just started using case and that sort of
took off.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
It's probably more catchy to say than anonymous host, So
I can see.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Why that's a bit of a mouthful. Isn't it an
anonymous host? It doesn't really.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But you've taken on Casey as kind of like the
identity as well. You've got an Instagram handle, is that
you Casey?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (06:27):
That's me for photography? Bad photography? Mind?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
You on the iPhone is a bit of a hobby
of mine, particularly live music and stuff. So it's just
like a just something I like to do in a downtime,
play around with a few photos and stuff.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
I thought, oh, I'm not as well put them.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Out there, I guess, and adopt the name yeah, and
just lean into the name yep.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Take me back to the start.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
How did you find yourself sitting down and starting a podcast?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So it's something that I'd wanted to do for a
little while, a few years. I'd say I was a
pretty early adopter of podcasts.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
So it's twenty sixteen, right.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
That's when case fol started. But I've been listening to
podcasts since I think it's like two thousand and eight
to something like that. So my housemate at the time
put me onto them. I'd never heard of them, and
leaning back into that music theme, I discovered Alternative Press
had a podcast and it was just long form interviews
with a lot of the bands that I liked. I
(07:26):
thought it was really cool because up until that point
there'd never really been anything like that to get insight
into artists. It was a snippet in a magazine or
a little bit here or there, but to get this
really long form conversation. I was immediately drawn in loved it,
and so I'd been a fan for a few years
(07:48):
and that sort of branched out into other podcasts after that,
and it was always in my mind I thought this'd
be cool to do, and I played around with a
few ideas, maybe a rugby league one, maybe a music one.
I started looking into music pretty heavily, but obviously a
nightmare because you can't play music, podcast licensing, all that
sort of stuff, So I wasn't really sure how to
(08:10):
approach that. And I'd always been a consumer, I guess
of true crime from a young age. I remember back
I would have been like ten. I was babysat by
my auntie a lot back then, and she had this
whole shelf full of true crime magazines. I forget the
name of it, you know, but it was like a
(08:30):
weekly one available at their newsagents magazine. Yeah, so every
week one a new one would come out at the
magazine and it was like in long form on one case,
and she had a whole shelf of them. So it
was probably way too young to be reading about the
Yorkshire Ripper and other such cases. But so from a
young age, and I remember always having an interest in
(08:54):
the human.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Side of it, was like what causes it? How does
this happen? Even from such a young age.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I don't think I was throwing around terms like nature, verse,
nurture back then, but essentially that's what I was wondering
at that time, like how does this happen? It was
It wasn't like a lifelong thing, you know, I'd sort
of in and out of it. A book would come along,
like I think one of the first books I read
(09:20):
was Helter Skelter at true crime books that is.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
And then there was.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
ABC had a like a tele dramatized based on true
events called Blue Murder.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, So I got right into that and tried to
find every book that I could on that case and
the players that were involved in that. So I've always
had an interest in it. And so around this time,
Cereal had been out for I think a few years
by this point, but I was a late adopter to Cereal,
and Making a Murderer was big at that time as well,
(09:57):
So true crime was sort of back bubbling bubbling, and
it just occurred to me just because I'd always had
from a young age and interest in it. I thought,
I wonder if that is some that would work on
a podcast, and I started researching. So this is twenty fifteen,
hard to imagine, but a very different landscape. Back then,
(10:19):
there was hardly any true crime podcasts, very different to today.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Especially in Australia.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
I'm guessing I don't think there were any in Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I could be wrong. There might have been something that
I just didn't find. I'm not saying case f I
was the first, but the handful that I did find
were a lot more formatted around that multiple hosts, round
table discussion format. There was obviously serial, the documentary style,
and then there was another one or two like that
that would play nine to one one calls and interview
(10:48):
clips and things like that. Now, at that time, I
was heavily influenced by a podcast called Hardcore History by
Dan Carlin. What I found so fascinating about that podcast
was the in depth storytelling by a single narrator. So
up until that point I'd only ever heard like interview
style podcasts. I thought that's what podcasts. Well, there was
(11:11):
Serial that was more documentary style, but I'd never really
heard anything like Hardcore History, which was just one voice,
no clips, no nothing, just his voice for like five
hours telling a story something complex, like a complex historical event,
and it was so compelling. I thought that just got
my mind ticking over. I was like, Oh, it showed
(11:33):
me that was possible. And when I was trying to
come up with the format and then looking what was
out there with true crime, I saw I couldn't find
anything out there like that, and so I just borrowed,
copied inspired by whatever you want to say, Dan Carlin's
hardcore History into true crime.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It just goes to show that sometimes it's the simplest
ideas that end up being gold because it really is
just your voice for an hour, sometimes an hour and
a half. There's no other audio apart from like a
bit of a music bed sometimes.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, so there is a music bed. Very rarely do
we play like interrogation clips or things like that. We
have done, but it's pretty rare that that all happened.
So usually it's just my voice.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yep, you're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I'm speaking with the anonymous host of case File.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Up next, we go back to the start the making
of the very first episode of Case File. So take
me through recording that first episode.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Where are you? What does it look like? Do you
have a mic? Do you have a setup?
Speaker 5 (12:46):
It was bad, It was very bad.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I had no idea what I was doing from a
technical standpoint.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
One mention of the word.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
One, there is enough essentials down the spine of those
who remember the case that dominated the television reports, radio
air waves, and print media of the day. One of
my hobbies is I played guitar bass guitar at home,
and I had a little interface that I could record
myself on garage on my Mac and so on. That interface,
which was designed to plug a guitar in it also
(13:16):
had like this little mic smaller than the size of
a five cent piece on it. I thought, oh, yeah,
that'll do. So I just plugged that in to the laptop.
It was sitting on my desk nowhere in my mouth
over there somewhere, and I just started talking, did what
I could on garage band with my limited knowledge, and
(13:37):
then released it. It sounds awful, but so what I'm
very thankful for in those early days we got some
good constructive feedback in that. Look, this content is pretty good,
but this sounds awful. Can you get someone to do
something with your audio? I thought that's probably fair enough,
(13:59):
so I advertised for an audio producer on a freelance website.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah, things up work, I think it was.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
And it was hard to write that job the scriptum
because I didn't know what I was asking for, because
I had no knowledge of what I was doing. So
I put together something and probably twenty to thirty people applied,
and so I thought the best way to work this
out was I just had a one minute snippet from
an episode and the job description was fixed. This just
(14:29):
show me what you can do, basically. And then I
listened to it and there was one standout, which was
Mike Megus, who is still the current case for a
producer to Next Day. Yeah, nine years on, so he
was one of the applicants. I listened to his snippet
head and shoulders above anyone else. Then I looked at
his resume. Worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK, worked
(14:51):
on this Star Wars movie, worked on this Disney movie.
I'm like, oh, dear, no, no wonder, it sounds so good,
but I can't afford this. But I messaged him and
we got chatting, and he had actually just left Pinewood
Studios and was coming out as a freelancer. He hadn't
worked with podcasts before, so he was keen to just
(15:13):
try it and dip his toes into it, get experience
with podcasts, and he gave me a very favorable rate.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
So thank you, Mike.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So you found him at a good time, a good time.
How many podcasts in were you hiring Mike?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Was? Episode seven was the first one he worked on.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And by that point, did you have an audience? What
did your audience look like in those early episodes.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I remember my goal when I released the first episode
was to get to one hundred, one hundred downloads, one
hundred downloads, and that happened in twenty four hours, and
so by the end of the first week it was
about one thousand, and it sort of slowly, just it
sort of came in blocks. So by six months we
(15:57):
were averaging fifty thousand plus an episode. Then by the
end of the first year it was two hundred and
fifty thousand an episode, and then before I knew it
into the second year was a million plus. Just was
like stages, It was very it almost didn't seem real
because there was no promotion.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
There was nothing say how did.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You like, did you just go on to one of
the platforms and release it? Did you advertise it on
social media?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Like?
Speaker 4 (16:26):
How did you get it out there?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It was I believe the first hosting platform was SoundCloud actually,
so I put it on SoundCloud and through there they
had an RSS capability, So it went out to Apple
and all the everywhere that you can get podcasts, set
up a Facebook.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
Page and it just grew, it just grew. It was
just word of mouth.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
What was the first episode on do you remember?
Speaker 6 (16:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (16:51):
The first episode was the Wonder Beach Murders.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
So a really infamous one.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, infamous Australian one. And I guess I covered that
one because it was a case that I'd heard a
lot about growing up. It was sort of almost mythical
in a way, the way it was about an urban
legend of not an urban legend, obviously it's real case,
but the way it was spoken about growing up, it
was almost like that. And I realized I knew nothing
(17:20):
about it, so I thought that was a good place
to start. Just as this wasn't planned, This wasn't supposed
to go to an audience This was a project that
I was doing while I was off work injured, so
it was literally just to fill in the time until
I went back to work. So I didn't get crazy
because this was my third serious rehab from an injury
(17:41):
in quick succession, and that can be a pretty dark
and lonely time, especially for someone who likes to play sport,
keep fit active. It's almost sort of part of my identity.
So being stuck through the rehab process it was pretty tough.
That third one was a pretty serious injury too. So
I'd been wanting to start a podcast for a few years.
(18:02):
I thought, well, this is my chance, and yeah, I
none of this was planned.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Maybe do three.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Episodes as your podcast started to grow. I know you're
anonymous to the world, but your loved ones they would
have known that you were starting a podcast. What did
they think about it?
Speaker 4 (18:20):
All?
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Not many.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I kept it pretty much well on the down low.
I told a few friends and they kind of just
laughed at it, said, though, that's stupid, what are you doing.
What are you doing that for? Basically, you know, in
a friendly banter tight way, I guess, But yeah, I
kept it pretty well on the down low, just something
(18:42):
that I just did put my head down and just
kept putting it out there. No one I worked with
knew about it.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
So you ended up going back to work and you
were doing this on the side, yep.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yep, So I went back to eventually got back to work,
and yeah, just on the days off and you or
after work even Yeah, kept working on case file and
it kept growing and growing and growing. Eventually I realized
that I needed help yep. So we got our first
researcher and writer to assist, and yeah, from there, the
(19:18):
team has just gradually grown and yeah, now we have
two full time audio producers, three full time researchers, writers,
and additional freelancers as well.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Wow, prior to hiring a researcher to obviously help you
write those scripts because they're long, they're detailed, how much
work were you putting into that script?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Because it's.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's hard to get that amount of detail, and like,
if you get anything wrong, people are going to pick
up on it.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Is it ours?
Speaker 6 (19:53):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, it was a non stop It was literally I
didn't have anything else in life. I go to work
and I come home and like I'd work shift work,
So sometimes after a night shift, I'd literally just not sleep.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Because it was that full on. So, yeah, it was a.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Lot, a lot of there's still a lot of work now,
but obviously it's much smoother in operation with having such
a talented team working on it now.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
But yeah, back then it was pretty full long.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Given it's your baby, though, it's your case file is
your child? Do you struggle to give it to other people?
Are you very close to it still in terms of
the writing of those scripts and the research and how
the process goes.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
No, I've got a lot of faith in the team,
So it's once it's been very fortunate just to find
such talented and hard working people who I trust. So
once these people have my trust, it's I'm happy to
step away. And so the writing and research team now
is fully led by women. All the rids of researchers
(20:59):
are women. The head writer, Millie is in charge of
all the cases, what we're covering, what's the release schedule,
all of that. Mike's in charge of the production side
of it, the audio production, what music goes on, and
sort of the audio production elements. So yeah, and I
have full trust in the whole team to do that
(21:23):
because this.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Is no longer well and truly no longer your side hustle,
this is your job, right When were you able to
kind of be like, Okay, goodbye, former career, I'm doing this.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
So case fil was released in episode one in January
twenty sixteen. It was the end of twenty seventeen where
I took leave without pay from my job for a year,
just to I was very on the fence and uming
and a ring and I don't know what to do.
This is, so I thought I'd take the year leave
without pay. And that year went so quick it's unbelievable.
(21:59):
Was almost like I blinked and then works ringing me,
are you coming back? And I still wasn't sure at
that stage. I requested another six months and they said
either coming back or you're leaving, And so ultimately I
just decided to leave and try it full time.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
And yeah, so still able to do it. Now?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
What were you sure about? What made you think so hard?
Did you love your former career?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I wouldn't say that it was just more stable. I
guess so because it was it's the unknown a podcast,
So I don't know, especially back then in two thousand
and seventeen, it was just it was very much outside
of my comfort zone, I guess, and I just wasn't
sure about it. It was like, ah, this is a big
(22:47):
risk and pressure, but it was good. It was the
best decision I made.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
This is a bit of a nerdy behind the scenes question,
but it's pretty common knowledge that advertisers get a bit
scared of true crime as a genre because we talk
about murder, blood gore, you know, often deeply harrowing content.
Has that been a challenge for you in trying to monetize.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
It has been relayed back to me a little bit,
But from what I've picked up over the years, that
is a very much Australian thing, right, not so much
in the US. And we're very fortunate where we have
such a big audience in the US. It was actually
half our audience for a number of years was US based.
(23:33):
It's okay, it's sort of come back a little bit now.
I think it's even Australia thirty five percent Australia thirty
five percent US roughly. So we've always had that big
US audience and the US advertisers don't have that same viewpoint.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I'm interested to know, like male female split for your podcast,
do you have a lot of is it mainly women?
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Is it mainly men?
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I believe it's seventy thirty female.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Seventy percent female?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Yes, wow, I mean I don't know how accurate that is.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
I don't know how they measure that, but that's the
stats that come up on our dashboard. Yep, Yeah, it
was seventy seventy thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Because we're a bit skewed.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Obviously we're a women's media company doing a podcast, but
we have the most male listeners of all the podcasts
on our network.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Oh, because a lot of.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Men don't listen to our the podcast, but they listen
to us. So that's why I'm so curious to hear it,
because I do hear that it's women mainly that like
to listen to true crime podcasts.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, it's certainly the case for us. The live show
that we did in Australia in November in Melbourne, that
was it was probably ninety plus women in the audience.
So yeah, very much skewed towards mostly female listeners.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Fans of case File.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
The og might not realize, but you have about, if
I'm correct, twenty one other podcasts under kind of the
banner of case File presents smaller you know, like the
Easy Street Murders. You've got like a kind of serie
on that particular case. How did that come about in
terms of like branching out and doing that.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, so that's something that I had thought about pretty
early on. Once Case File started getting successful, I was
really interested. As much as my vision for Case fil
was the style that we do now, I also obviously
really like Cereal and that style as well, and I
was interested in trying to do some of that long form, investigative,
deep dive stuff. And so that's basically how it came about.
(25:39):
The Case File presents idea, let's give a platform to
other people to tell their stories. So you know, we
have like Vicki Petratus, who's done a number well known
true crime author journalists, pis whoever sort of has a story,
and we're able to provide that platform, give them an
audience to elevate their stories.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
And do you work really closely with those podcasts?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Depends on the show, okay, it just it depends on
the show, depends on the creator. Some people are like,
let me alone, I'll send you when I'm done, and
I'm happy with that because I've obviously put that I
trust them enough to offer them the opportunity. So I
believe that they can do it, but other people wanted
more hands on approach and can you help me outit this?
Speaker 5 (26:19):
And what do you think of this? And so it
just depends on the show.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I'm happy to be as involved or as uninvolved as
they want me to be.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And this is news to me. But I found out
today that Case File has a game. Yes, so you
can play case File board game.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
It's a board game. Yeah, so Goliath, the board game company,
reached out to us and wanted to do a game,
and we were a bit unsure about that. Obviously, had
to just see what they had in mind. But obviously
it's a completely fictional storyline, and you know, we're happy
with what they came up with. And yeah, so that's
They've just released a version two, so they must be
(26:58):
happy enough with our version one went. Version two is
only available in the US at this time.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Though.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
What's your lens?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Every podcast has like a bit of a lens as
to how they pick a story or a case that
they're going to cover.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Do you have a way to pick?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
There's no one lens I would say, other than we
don't do a case just because it's gruesome, or to
cover the gore or you know, big gratrudus or anything
like that. There's got to be a reason for it. Like,
I'm personally close to unsolved cases, so I like covering
(27:38):
those and giving those a voice. But there's reasons to
cover other stories as well, you know, the societal impacts,
justice system issues, wrongful convictions, problems with police investigations, voices
who were ignored, under represented community. There's many, many different reasons.
(27:59):
It just depends on the case. Yeah, but generally there
has to be a reason. There's some sort of forensic
element that's interesting to put out there, or the genetic
genealogy stuff that's become big in recent years, that sort
of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, do you find that there are certain kind of
styles that your audience prefers. I'll give you an example
from our side. Whenever we do an episode about a cult,
it goes really well. Okay, do you have kind of
episodes that you know are going to go well before
you've even put them out?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Not really, We're pretty each episode is pretty on par
with another episode. Yeah, they all do pretty well. So
we don't really have an insight into this particular case.
We'll do better than this particular case. Nothing like that
that doesn't come that doesn't factor into the decision.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Meaning, are there.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Any episodes I know you've done over three hundred but
that you're particularly proud of.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
But the ones that stand out to me would be
one like the unsolved murder of Britney Phillips, which is
a US case and I touched them earlier that unsolved
cases are the ones that are closest to me. And
Maggie Zingman, who is Brittany's mother, came across her story
(29:20):
in that she couldn't get any coverage for her daughter's
unsolved murder that happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, And so she's
been driving around for fifteen eighteen years whatever it was
at the time when we actually covered the case. She's
got her car decked out in like a rap with
all the details of her daughter's crime and just driving around.
(29:43):
She's been to every state in the continental US multiple times,
just driving around. She calls a caravan to catch a killer,
just raising awareness, just you never know, someone might know
something somewhere. And despite that, she was unable to get
any sort of national coverage or anything. So we were
put in touch and we were able to cover that
(30:04):
story on Case File.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I forget when that was released.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It was a few years ago now, But to this day,
Maggie will still will email me and say she still
gets people emailing her because they've heard the Case File episode.
And there's been no sort of groundbreaking tips at this point,
but there's been a few things here and there, and
she's just so appreciative of that coverage.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
So to me, that's something very worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I find it so interesting that you worked closely with
a family member to create that script. I'm guessing do
you do that often? Do you have family members or
people that were close to the crime involved in the
crafting of the episode.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, not every episode, but it does definitely happen. And
I guess because we have that single storyteller style, we
don't include interview clips that might not be overly apparent
that we do that, but it does happen, Yeah, you
know often, will have. I mean, at this point, we
get unfortunately, way more emails than we could ever get
(31:04):
to for from family members or advocates or friends or
family who requesting us to cover cases. I wish I
could get to all of them, but it's just not
possible at this point.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Are there any stories that haunt you? Obviously every story
is usually horrible.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean all the unsolved ones,
I mean they all haunt you. They will have an
effect at some level. The unsolved ones where we work
with family are particularly harder than others. I would say, yeah,
the Brittany Phillips one I just touched on. I was
lucky enough to meet Maggie in person last year at
(31:45):
Crime Con for the first time, so that was really
good to meet her in person. The series that I
released last year on the Case File Presents Platform Missing
Neam that I that took me over four years to
put together that series, So obviously that four years that
had an effect.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
It's so interesting because like at the start of the chat,
you were talking about, you know, seeing the books in
your aunties and being like, oh, yeah, true crime and
now it's you live breathe talk about it every day.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Does that have an effect on you?
Speaker 5 (32:20):
I guess it does.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Obviously has because I can't consume any true crime stuff
anymore outside of what's required for work. So people might
be talking about the latest Netflix series or whatever, there's.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
I haven't watched any of them. I've got no idea.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
It's just not something that I can do outside of
what's required for work now, so I've got to seek
other sort of avenues to unwind and stuff. But yeah,
so I guess it's hard to say. I guess when
you're living every day.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, I can still watch the Netflix shows and I
live and breathe true crime every day.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
So I think it just is different people.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Yeah, it just depends on There's no sort of right
or wrong answer.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, has your research ever I know you were talking
about Britney's moum, but has it ever kind of led
to a break through or helped an investigation?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I don't think so, not that I know of, Like
that Case File episode hasn't directly led to a case
being solved. Obviously, we've covered unsolved cases that have then
become solved, not because of the case fil coverage, but
that has happened. We've definitely received tips over the years,
you know, I've had tips come directly to me and
I'm like, I can't I'm not an investigative agency, Like
(33:35):
I can't do anything with this, and sort of encourage
those people to contact the relevant law enforcement agency.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
That's a lot of pressure on you though, as well,
getting tips through your email and you're like, I'm just
toasting a podcast.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I get it's tough too because a lot of these
cases are decades old, and so from the point of
view of the person like, well, the police don't care,
they're not doing anything. That's probably their perception. Whether that's
the truth or not, I don't know, it could be different.
But if there is ever something I could actually do
to help a case, of course I would do it.
But yeah, I think I definitely don't want to be
overreaching and trying to take on the role of an
(34:13):
investigative agency. I think the first port of call is
the police.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
And yeah, you've no doubt watched the True Crime Space
explode over the last nine years. I mean, we're here,
we've popped up and plenty of other podcasts. Do you
fixate on the charts? I mean you're usually at the
top of them, so you don't need to have to worry.
But is it interesting watching it explode and all these
(34:40):
new podcasts in your kind of space come up?
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
It still remains one of the most popular, I believe
of the podcast categories, and there's been all sorts of
shows that have popped up since and continue to be popular.
And yeah, obviously there was In Australia we have the
Teacher's Pet which has led to a result, So there's
been a lot that has happened over the years.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, why do you think Case File still dominates all
these years later?
Speaker 5 (35:07):
That's a great question. I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
It's almost like every day I wake up, I'm like,
is this the day where everyone stops listening? Or it's hard?
It doesn't seem real. And it's pretty rare to have
been for a show to be at the top for
so long too. I mean, obviously we have regular early episodes,
so those bigger sort of investigative shows like Your Teachers
(35:33):
pattern stuff that are limited run, they can't say the
top because they're not there. Yeah, they're short runs, so
we have that to our advantage. But yeah, I don't know,
and we don't take it for granted. We continue just
to put our heads down, work really hard and try
to continually improve the episodes and what we're doing, and
(35:56):
as long as people keep listening, we will keep doing it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Well, you've obviously met some of your audience in real life.
You've done a few in person chats, but do you
get a lot of feedback from audience of where they're
listening and.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Why love the show.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
The most common feedback that I have gotten from people
in both in person people email in and write comments
and stuff, is just they appreciate the no nonsense storytelling,
I guess, the empathetic storytelling. There's no banter or chit chat,
so I guess they like that about our style as well.
And just what I touched on before that it's not
(36:35):
just we're not just telling stories about gratuitous violences. Generally
something else to it, some sort of impact somewhere, judicial system,
criminal justice system, police whatever. And yeah, that's I guess
the most the most common feedback that I've gotten.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I have a feeling you accompany many people on their
road trips.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
In terms of where they listen. Yeah, yeah, road trips
is very popular. Gym walks runs, that sort of thing
is very popular as well.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
And it's funny.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Actually, Anthony the other audio bridge was at a friend's
house recently and he's popped out of the car and
he's heard my voice.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
He's like, what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
And it turns out a neighbor of his friend was
in the garage doing a workout and had Case File laring. So, yeah,
that's never happened to me. I've never bumped into anyone
listening to case File really, no, well.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, you haven't seen it on their phone. I've done
that a few times where I've seen our podcast.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
On someone's phone. Yeah, no, no, never.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Because your voice is very familiar now, like you've done
over three hundred episodes, and you didn't have any audio training.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Did you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
No, But I think most people that listen would be
able to recognize your voice in a lineup.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, maybe, but some people don't know. At an event
only last week and I was talking to someone and
I mentioned I was from case File. There was a
podcast event and they were like, oh, a famous voice,
so who does the voice? And so they had no
idea that it was. I'd say that's me, and they
were like, oh, you sound very sefferent in real life.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
So you do tell people that you come across that you.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Are not everyone, but in that environment, I was okay
to talk about it that particular event, but it's not
something or I just freely disclosed and day to day
on the street or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
No, next I ask the anonymous host of case File
who he will reveal his identity to.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Nerdy again.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
But I was at the Australian Podcast Awards and I
hear you were too. I was, but I wouldn't have
known it because I didn't know what you learn.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
I was just lurking in the shadows at the back
of the room there.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, but you don't well, I don't remember you getting up.
Case File Presents at least got an award that night.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
From memory, we were nominated, didn't didn't win.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Would you have gotten up if you won?
Speaker 5 (39:14):
No?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
No, I think members of the a cast team were
going to step in and do that for us.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
So that was easy.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Street and Troubled Warders were both nominated in different categories.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
So you are still very careful in terms of like
you'll do certain things, like you'll stand in front of
an intimate audience, but you won't get up on a
stage in a podcasting awards.
Speaker 6 (39:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
It probably seems a bit contradictory. No, it clever and
in saying that, if I was at that award show
and bumped into you and you introduce yourself, Like at
that sort of environment, I would have said who I was?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, well i'll recognize you now now you will. Yes,
Where do you think the future of podcasting is going?
Is someone that's been in the world for so long
because it is so saturated.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Now, I think from what I read and see, everything
seems to be pointing towards video. Videos come a very
big thing, which I don't know what kind of Well,
video is not podcasting, though, it's a different thing.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
You'll have to get a good silhouette.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah, well, we've just made changes to our YouTube channel
so we release on YouTube as well. So as of
the first episode we've released this year, we've incorporated sort
of pitches and maps and different things that will overlay
on the screen and it's kind of like an animated
studio silhouette of a person recording. So we've made some tweaks,
(40:41):
leaning into the video a bit more, doing what we
can because obviously we are limited. But yeah, it's a
very different landscape now than was to when Case File started.
I find it now when we release case File present shows.
Sometimes even though we have a massive audience to advertise
that too, sometimes it can not take it's just very
(41:03):
hard to break through now. I think there's so many
established shows launching a new show much tougher. Not to
say it can't be done, of course it can be,
it's just much tougher now. I think the barrier to
entry is a little bit higher now.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
So if you were to try and release your episode
one from twenty sixteen now and do what you did now.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I think that would be what the original It would
turn out to what the original thought was three episodes,
and I'd be back to work. Yeah, I couldn't see
it taking off now, just with how bad the audio
was as well. So I think there's a much higher
level of quality now audio production and just the product,
the shows themselves, the content.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Do you still love it?
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Yeah? Yeah still.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
As I said, I wake up every day just so
I can't believe that the show has the audience that
it has, and that I get to work with such
a talented group of people and people listen, and that
we get to do this.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Yeah, very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
So you've just come back from summer break in February,
lucky bugger.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yes, although that is a bit of a misconception. I
like to clear up that we've been bombarded with one
star review, so we've taken too long off. I can
assure everyone we have been working very hard. I mean,
of course we had two weeks off over the Christmas
New Year period itself, but as soon as the last
episode came out last year, we would have wrapped that
up in October, so as soon as that was sort
(42:34):
of done and recorded, might not have been released yet,
but we were straight onto twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
So listeners rest assured you were working.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
You just went related to Yeah, we sort of need
that three month lead in just to get ready for
the new year, because otherwise it can In past years
it's just been a nightmare. We've barely been days ahead.
Like I've finished recording an episode, got to get it
to Mike. He's got three days to put the audio production,
get it out and that's not a good way to operate. Stressful,
(43:02):
so we try and keep ahead of that.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Now, So what can we expect. What are some of
the episodes that you have coming up?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Listeners can expect I think more of what they have
come to know and love about Case File, as varied
cases from Australia from around the world. There's all sorts
of different cases more recent older. We are launching with
the two parter on the Night Caller, which was the
(43:28):
serial offender Eric Agacook in Perth, Western Australia, and I
think what's interesting about that case is just such a
different time when that was happening, and you have this
prolific serial offender just wreaking havoc across the city, and
yet they didn't put it together that it was the
same offender. I mean, there's multiple wrongful convictions despite a
(43:53):
confession from Eric A. Gocook in this case after he
was eventually caught and he confessed, and they put together, oh,
this was all the same guy. There's people sitting in
prison for his crimes and despite a full detailed confession
that it still took a while for those guys to
get out. I just's certain things about that case that
blow my mind.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Do you ever struggle to hold back your opinion in
your script writing?
Speaker 5 (44:17):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah, yeah, I have plenty of opinions on those cases,
but yeah, very mindful that that's not what case follows about.
Speaker 5 (44:25):
It's going to remain neutral.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Just tell it, just tell the facts, And sometimes I
think people forget that. So like if we are very
common gripe for listeners and that we'll get emails about
is about the use of polygraph tests. So if we
mention in a case like you know, certain suspect was
brought in given a polygraph test and passed and failed
or whatever, people write in like furious, this is junk science.
(44:49):
It's been debunked. We're not advocating, just that's what happened. Yeah,
So even though we don't give opinions, people can sometimes
hear things and think that we are. But yeah, just
keep it neutral. This is what happened. And that's case
file basically.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
And I know you said you can secret from your
friends and family, but I'm assuming they know what you do.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
Now what do they think they know?
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Now? Yeah, Yeah, they're pretty sort of blown away by
it as well. Some of them can't believe it. They
hear my voice a lot.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Do they listen?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Some do, Some don't, Yeah, some sort of. Some are
turned off by my voice actually because they can't take
it seriously because they know it's me, you know. Some an'
into true crime and stuff like that. Yeah, but quite
a few friends and family do listen.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, Well, thank you for coming into the studio. I
know it was a bit of a treck for you.
That's not giving too much away, is it.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
No bad traffic, very bad traffic.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Everyone can keep listening to you, but just call you Casey.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Thanks to Casey for telling us his story.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
True Crime Conversations is a Mum of Meer podcast hosted
and produced by me Jemma Bath and Tarlie Blackman, with
audio design by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back next week
with another True Crime Conversation.
You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waders. This podcast was
recorded on to some he's known as the anonymous host.
Others have nicknamed him Casey. If you're listening to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And you're a fan of true crime, you'll probably recognize
this voice.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Asking's indicating they'd applied the patches in the lead up
to their deaths Stranger Still, the evidence suggests that the
couple had ingested, but.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The host of Australian true crime podcast case File has
kept his identity secret for nine years and so far that's.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Been working pretty well for him.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Casey might not let us tell you his real name,
but that doesn't mean we can't tell you his story.
I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations amom
of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes
(01:16):
by speaking to the people who know the most about them.
We've got a bit of a different episode for you today.
Case File is what you would call one of our
direct competitors. We both work in the Australian true crime
podcasting space and we're regularly up against them in the
various podcasting charts. They're wildly popular, often number one, with
(01:39):
people all over the world attracted to the podcast's distinct,
no frills approach to storytelling. It all started with one
typical Aussie bloke as he calls himself in his spare room,
deciding to give podcasting a go while recovering from a
sporting injury. Now the anonymous host and his team are
in the years of more than eight hundred thousand people
(02:02):
every month. He doesn't really do interviews, you'll only find
one or two on the internet, but we managed to
convinced him to come into Momma mea HQ for an
exclusive sit down chat. I don't know what I was
meeting him in real life. He wasn't not what I
was expecting. Probably more clean cut than the descriptor he
(02:25):
gives of being a typical Aussie bloke, but maybe that's
just me being too stereotypical. The feedback from my colleagues
who sneak to peak is that he's younger than they imagined.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Make of that what you will.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And when I say sneak to peak, several of my
colleagues not only hobbed, but chased this man down the
halls of our office. Honestly, there was more excitement in
here than when we have some Hollywood celebs grace our halls.
Please enjoy my chat with the anonymous host of case File.
(02:59):
I'm going to start with some quick fire questions, getting
to know you questions.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I will accept no comment if I have to.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Okay, sounds good, favorite sport, Rugby league, favorite food.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Toy.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
That was a toughie. You had to think about that.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Yeah, it was Indian maybe.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Favorite song and or artists.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Favorite song Flowers and You by touche A Moore, very specific.
It's getting quite the play at the moment. It's not new,
it's actually probably ten years old now. But good song.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Favorite thing to do on the weekend, golf, favorite place
in Australia, Blue Mountains, m TV.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Show cobra Qui what Yeah, just because it's so tacky
and cheesy, but they really lean into it. And I
was a fan of the Karate Kid movies when I
was young, so it's a bit of a nostalgia thing.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
It's like it's bad, but it's good bad.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
If you could have dinner with anyone alive or dead,
who would it be?
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Kirk Cabaine Ooh, I'm hearing a music yeah, big music fan. Yeah, well,
or actually Kirk Cobaine or Cliff Burton original Metallica basis.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Okay, Well, there we go.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I feel like I've learned more about you in the
last few minutes than I can find on the entire Internet.
And I'm not actually allowed to tell listeners your name.
It's been nine years of you making case file. Have
you ever considered just revealing who you are? Or has
it become part of the brand?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Not really, No, I guess it has become part of it,
but inadvertently it's kind of like an accident because it
was never planned. It was never supposed to be a thing,
the anonymous hosting, but it just kind of took off
into a life of its own. I guess we have
started branching out. I've done a few live appearances in
recent times. There's no photo policy, and I still don't
(05:02):
reveal myself as such. It's more just the case, false
story and that sort of thing. I'm comfortable with that.
That's been fine, But yeah, I don't think I'll ever
be a personality, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, it's very fun trying to look at what people
have kind of found out about you? Is that fun
to watch people trying to work it out?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I did get a little bit of a kick out
of it, sort of initially. I haven't looked at it
for a few years now, but there were some weird
and wild theories.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
There are out there.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Some I'm like, how do people even come up with that?
That is like completely made up?
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They stayed it like it's just so matter of fact.
It's eye opening.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Actually, well fans, is it fans that have nicknamed you Casey?
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yes? That came from listeners.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So just that came off the back of the anonymous
host thing, people like, well, who is this person?
Speaker 5 (05:59):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I can't remember if it was a Reddit thread
or a Facebook group maybe, but there's one of those,
and listeners just started using case and that sort of
took off.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
It's probably more catchy to say than anonymous host, So
I can see.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Why that's a bit of a mouthful. Isn't it an
anonymous host? It doesn't really.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But you've taken on Casey as kind of like the
identity as well. You've got an Instagram handle, is that
you Casey?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (06:27):
That's me for photography? Bad photography? Mind?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
You on the iPhone is a bit of a hobby
of mine, particularly live music and stuff. So it's just
like a just something I like to do in a downtime,
play around with a few photos and stuff.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
I thought, oh, I'm not as well put them.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Out there, I guess, and adopt the name yeah, and
just lean into the name yep.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Take me back to the start.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
How did you find yourself sitting down and starting a podcast?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So it's something that I'd wanted to do for a
little while, a few years. I'd say I was a
pretty early adopter of podcasts.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
So it's twenty sixteen, right.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
That's when case fol started. But I've been listening to
podcasts since I think it's like two thousand and eight
to something like that. So my housemate at the time
put me onto them. I'd never heard of them, and
leaning back into that music theme, I discovered Alternative Press
had a podcast and it was just long form interviews
with a lot of the bands that I liked. I
(07:26):
thought it was really cool because up until that point
there'd never really been anything like that to get insight
into artists. It was a snippet in a magazine or
a little bit here or there, but to get this
really long form conversation. I was immediately drawn in loved it,
and so I'd been a fan for a few years
(07:48):
and that sort of branched out into other podcasts after that,
and it was always in my mind I thought this'd
be cool to do, and I played around with a
few ideas, maybe a rugby league one, maybe a music one.
I started looking into music pretty heavily, but obviously a
nightmare because you can't play music, podcast licensing, all that
sort of stuff, So I wasn't really sure how to
(08:10):
approach that. And I'd always been a consumer, I guess
of true crime from a young age. I remember back
I would have been like ten. I was babysat by
my auntie a lot back then, and she had this
whole shelf full of true crime magazines. I forget the
name of it, you know, but it was like a
(08:30):
weekly one available at their newsagents magazine. Yeah, so every
week one a new one would come out at the
magazine and it was like in long form on one case,
and she had a whole shelf of them. So it
was probably way too young to be reading about the
Yorkshire Ripper and other such cases. But so from a
young age, and I remember always having an interest in
(08:54):
the human.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Side of it, was like what causes it? How does
this happen? Even from such a young age.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I don't think I was throwing around terms like nature, verse,
nurture back then, but essentially that's what I was wondering
at that time, like how does this happen? It was
It wasn't like a lifelong thing, you know, I'd sort
of in and out of it. A book would come along,
like I think one of the first books I read
(09:20):
was Helter Skelter at true crime books that is.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
And then there was.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
ABC had a like a tele dramatized based on true
events called Blue Murder.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, So I got right into that and tried to
find every book that I could on that case and
the players that were involved in that. So I've always
had an interest in it. And so around this time,
Cereal had been out for I think a few years
by this point, but I was a late adopter to Cereal,
and Making a Murderer was big at that time as well,
(09:57):
So true crime was sort of back bubbling bubbling, and
it just occurred to me just because I'd always had
from a young age and interest in it. I thought,
I wonder if that is some that would work on
a podcast, and I started researching. So this is twenty fifteen,
hard to imagine, but a very different landscape. Back then,
(10:19):
there was hardly any true crime podcasts, very different to today.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Especially in Australia.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
I'm guessing I don't think there were any in Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I could be wrong. There might have been something that
I just didn't find. I'm not saying case f I
was the first, but the handful that I did find
were a lot more formatted around that multiple hosts, round
table discussion format. There was obviously serial, the documentary style,
and then there was another one or two like that
that would play nine to one one calls and interview
(10:48):
clips and things like that. Now, at that time, I
was heavily influenced by a podcast called Hardcore History by
Dan Carlin. What I found so fascinating about that podcast
was the in depth storytelling by a single narrator. So
up until that point I'd only ever heard like interview
style podcasts. I thought that's what podcasts. Well, there was
(11:11):
Serial that was more documentary style, but I'd never really
heard anything like Hardcore History, which was just one voice,
no clips, no nothing, just his voice for like five
hours telling a story something complex, like a complex historical event,
and it was so compelling. I thought that just got
my mind ticking over. I was like, Oh, it showed
(11:33):
me that was possible. And when I was trying to
come up with the format and then looking what was
out there with true crime, I saw I couldn't find
anything out there like that, and so I just borrowed,
copied inspired by whatever you want to say, Dan Carlin's
hardcore History into true crime.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It just goes to show that sometimes it's the simplest
ideas that end up being gold because it really is
just your voice for an hour, sometimes an hour and
a half. There's no other audio apart from like a
bit of a music bed sometimes.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, so there is a music bed. Very rarely do
we play like interrogation clips or things like that. We
have done, but it's pretty rare that that all happened.
So usually it's just my voice.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yep, you're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I'm speaking with the anonymous host of case File.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Up next, we go back to the start the making
of the very first episode of Case File. So take
me through recording that first episode.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Where are you? What does it look like? Do you
have a mic? Do you have a setup?
Speaker 5 (12:46):
It was bad, It was very bad.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I had no idea what I was doing from a
technical standpoint.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
One mention of the word.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
One, there is enough essentials down the spine of those
who remember the case that dominated the television reports, radio
air waves, and print media of the day. One of
my hobbies is I played guitar bass guitar at home,
and I had a little interface that I could record
myself on garage on my Mac and so on. That interface,
which was designed to plug a guitar in it also
(13:16):
had like this little mic smaller than the size of
a five cent piece on it. I thought, oh, yeah,
that'll do. So I just plugged that in to the laptop.
It was sitting on my desk nowhere in my mouth
over there somewhere, and I just started talking, did what
I could on garage band with my limited knowledge, and
(13:37):
then released it. It sounds awful, but so what I'm
very thankful for in those early days we got some
good constructive feedback in that. Look, this content is pretty good,
but this sounds awful. Can you get someone to do
something with your audio? I thought that's probably fair enough,
(13:59):
so I advertised for an audio producer on a freelance website.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah, things up work, I think it was.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
And it was hard to write that job the scriptum
because I didn't know what I was asking for, because
I had no knowledge of what I was doing. So
I put together something and probably twenty to thirty people applied,
and so I thought the best way to work this
out was I just had a one minute snippet from
an episode and the job description was fixed. This just
(14:29):
show me what you can do, basically. And then I
listened to it and there was one standout, which was
Mike Megus, who is still the current case for a
producer to Next Day. Yeah, nine years on, so he
was one of the applicants. I listened to his snippet
head and shoulders above anyone else. Then I looked at
his resume. Worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK, worked
(14:51):
on this Star Wars movie, worked on this Disney movie.
I'm like, oh, dear, no, no wonder, it sounds so good,
but I can't afford this. But I messaged him and
we got chatting, and he had actually just left Pinewood
Studios and was coming out as a freelancer. He hadn't
worked with podcasts before, so he was keen to just
(15:13):
try it and dip his toes into it, get experience
with podcasts, and he gave me a very favorable rate.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
So thank you, Mike.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So you found him at a good time, a good time.
How many podcasts in were you hiring Mike?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Was? Episode seven was the first one he worked on.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And by that point, did you have an audience? What
did your audience look like in those early episodes.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I remember my goal when I released the first episode
was to get to one hundred, one hundred downloads, one
hundred downloads, and that happened in twenty four hours, and
so by the end of the first week it was
about one thousand, and it sort of slowly, just it
sort of came in blocks. So by six months we
(15:57):
were averaging fifty thousand plus an episode. Then by the
end of the first year it was two hundred and
fifty thousand an episode, and then before I knew it
into the second year was a million plus. Just was
like stages, It was very it almost didn't seem real
because there was no promotion.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
There was nothing say how did.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You like, did you just go on to one of
the platforms and release it? Did you advertise it on
social media?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Like?
Speaker 4 (16:26):
How did you get it out there?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It was I believe the first hosting platform was SoundCloud actually,
so I put it on SoundCloud and through there they
had an RSS capability, So it went out to Apple
and all the everywhere that you can get podcasts, set
up a Facebook.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
Page and it just grew, it just grew. It was
just word of mouth.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
What was the first episode on do you remember?
Speaker 6 (16:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (16:51):
The first episode was the Wonder Beach Murders.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
So a really infamous one.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, infamous Australian one. And I guess I covered that
one because it was a case that I'd heard a
lot about growing up. It was sort of almost mythical
in a way, the way it was about an urban
legend of not an urban legend, obviously it's real case,
but the way it was spoken about growing up, it
was almost like that. And I realized I knew nothing
(17:20):
about it, so I thought that was a good place
to start. Just as this wasn't planned, This wasn't supposed
to go to an audience This was a project that
I was doing while I was off work injured, so
it was literally just to fill in the time until
I went back to work. So I didn't get crazy
because this was my third serious rehab from an injury
(17:41):
in quick succession, and that can be a pretty dark
and lonely time, especially for someone who likes to play sport,
keep fit active. It's almost sort of part of my identity.
So being stuck through the rehab process it was pretty tough.
That third one was a pretty serious injury too. So
I'd been wanting to start a podcast for a few years.
(18:02):
I thought, well, this is my chance, and yeah, I
none of this was planned.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Maybe do three.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Episodes as your podcast started to grow. I know you're
anonymous to the world, but your loved ones they would
have known that you were starting a podcast. What did
they think about it?
Speaker 4 (18:20):
All?
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Not many.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I kept it pretty much well on the down low.
I told a few friends and they kind of just
laughed at it, said, though, that's stupid, what are you doing.
What are you doing that for? Basically, you know, in
a friendly banter tight way, I guess, But yeah, I
kept it pretty well on the down low, just something
(18:42):
that I just did put my head down and just
kept putting it out there. No one I worked with
knew about it.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
So you ended up going back to work and you
were doing this on the side, yep.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yep, So I went back to eventually got back to work,
and yeah, just on the days off and you or
after work even Yeah, kept working on case file and
it kept growing and growing and growing. Eventually I realized
that I needed help yep. So we got our first
researcher and writer to assist, and yeah, from there, the
(19:18):
team has just gradually grown and yeah, now we have
two full time audio producers, three full time researchers, writers,
and additional freelancers as well.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Wow, prior to hiring a researcher to obviously help you
write those scripts because they're long, they're detailed, how much
work were you putting into that script?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Because it's.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's hard to get that amount of detail, and like,
if you get anything wrong, people are going to pick
up on it.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Is it ours?
Speaker 6 (19:53):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, it was a non stop It was literally I
didn't have anything else in life. I go to work
and I come home and like I'd work shift work,
So sometimes after a night shift, I'd literally just not sleep.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Because it was that full on. So, yeah, it was a.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Lot, a lot of there's still a lot of work now,
but obviously it's much smoother in operation with having such
a talented team working on it now.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
But yeah, back then it was pretty full long.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Given it's your baby, though, it's your case file is
your child? Do you struggle to give it to other people?
Are you very close to it still in terms of
the writing of those scripts and the research and how
the process goes.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
No, I've got a lot of faith in the team,
So it's once it's been very fortunate just to find
such talented and hard working people who I trust. So
once these people have my trust, it's I'm happy to
step away. And so the writing and research team now
is fully led by women. All the rids of researchers
(20:59):
are women. The head writer, Millie is in charge of
all the cases, what we're covering, what's the release schedule,
all of that. Mike's in charge of the production side
of it, the audio production, what music goes on, and
sort of the audio production elements. So yeah, and I
have full trust in the whole team to do that
(21:23):
because this.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Is no longer well and truly no longer your side hustle,
this is your job, right When were you able to
kind of be like, Okay, goodbye, former career, I'm doing this.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
So case fil was released in episode one in January
twenty sixteen. It was the end of twenty seventeen where
I took leave without pay from my job for a year,
just to I was very on the fence and uming
and a ring and I don't know what to do.
This is, so I thought I'd take the year leave
without pay. And that year went so quick it's unbelievable.
(21:59):
Was almost like I blinked and then works ringing me,
are you coming back? And I still wasn't sure at
that stage. I requested another six months and they said
either coming back or you're leaving, And so ultimately I
just decided to leave and try it full time.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
And yeah, so still able to do it. Now?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
What were you sure about? What made you think so hard?
Did you love your former career?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I wouldn't say that it was just more stable. I
guess so because it was it's the unknown a podcast,
So I don't know, especially back then in two thousand
and seventeen, it was just it was very much outside
of my comfort zone, I guess, and I just wasn't
sure about it. It was like, ah, this is a big
(22:47):
risk and pressure, but it was good. It was the
best decision I made.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
This is a bit of a nerdy behind the scenes question,
but it's pretty common knowledge that advertisers get a bit
scared of true crime as a genre because we talk
about murder, blood gore, you know, often deeply harrowing content.
Has that been a challenge for you in trying to monetize.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
It has been relayed back to me a little bit,
But from what I've picked up over the years, that
is a very much Australian thing, right, not so much
in the US. And we're very fortunate where we have
such a big audience in the US. It was actually
half our audience for a number of years was US based.
(23:33):
It's okay, it's sort of come back a little bit now.
I think it's even Australia thirty five percent Australia thirty
five percent US roughly. So we've always had that big
US audience and the US advertisers don't have that same viewpoint.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I'm interested to know, like male female split for your podcast,
do you have a lot of is it mainly women?
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Is it mainly men?
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I believe it's seventy thirty female.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Seventy percent female?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Yes, wow, I mean I don't know how accurate that is.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
I don't know how they measure that, but that's the
stats that come up on our dashboard. Yep, Yeah, it
was seventy seventy thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Because we're a bit skewed.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Obviously we're a women's media company doing a podcast, but
we have the most male listeners of all the podcasts
on our network.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Oh, because a lot of.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Men don't listen to our the podcast, but they listen
to us. So that's why I'm so curious to hear it,
because I do hear that it's women mainly that like
to listen to true crime podcasts.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, it's certainly the case for us. The live show
that we did in Australia in November in Melbourne, that
was it was probably ninety plus women in the audience.
So yeah, very much skewed towards mostly female listeners.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Fans of case File.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
The og might not realize, but you have about, if
I'm correct, twenty one other podcasts under kind of the
banner of case File presents smaller you know, like the
Easy Street Murders. You've got like a kind of serie
on that particular case. How did that come about in
terms of like branching out and doing that.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, so that's something that I had thought about pretty
early on. Once Case File started getting successful, I was
really interested. As much as my vision for Case fil
was the style that we do now, I also obviously
really like Cereal and that style as well, and I
was interested in trying to do some of that long form, investigative,
deep dive stuff. And so that's basically how it came about.
(25:39):
The Case File presents idea, let's give a platform to
other people to tell their stories. So you know, we
have like Vicki Petratus, who's done a number well known
true crime author journalists, pis whoever sort of has a story,
and we're able to provide that platform, give them an
audience to elevate their stories.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
And do you work really closely with those podcasts?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Depends on the show, okay, it just it depends on
the show, depends on the creator. Some people are like,
let me alone, I'll send you when I'm done, and
I'm happy with that because I've obviously put that I
trust them enough to offer them the opportunity. So I
believe that they can do it, but other people wanted
more hands on approach and can you help me outit this?
Speaker 5 (26:19):
And what do you think of this? And so it
just depends on the show.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I'm happy to be as involved or as uninvolved as
they want me to be.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And this is news to me. But I found out
today that Case File has a game. Yes, so you
can play case File board game.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
It's a board game. Yeah, so Goliath, the board game company,
reached out to us and wanted to do a game,
and we were a bit unsure about that. Obviously, had
to just see what they had in mind. But obviously
it's a completely fictional storyline, and you know, we're happy
with what they came up with. And yeah, so that's
They've just released a version two, so they must be
(26:58):
happy enough with our version one went. Version two is
only available in the US at this time.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Though.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
What's your lens?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Every podcast has like a bit of a lens as
to how they pick a story or a case that
they're going to cover.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Do you have a way to pick?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
There's no one lens I would say, other than we
don't do a case just because it's gruesome, or to
cover the gore or you know, big gratrudus or anything
like that. There's got to be a reason for it. Like,
I'm personally close to unsolved cases, so I like covering
(27:38):
those and giving those a voice. But there's reasons to
cover other stories as well, you know, the societal impacts,
justice system issues, wrongful convictions, problems with police investigations, voices
who were ignored, under represented community. There's many, many different reasons.
(27:59):
It just depends on the case. Yeah, but generally there
has to be a reason. There's some sort of forensic
element that's interesting to put out there, or the genetic
genealogy stuff that's become big in recent years, that sort
of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, do you find that there are certain kind of
styles that your audience prefers. I'll give you an example
from our side. Whenever we do an episode about a cult,
it goes really well. Okay, do you have kind of
episodes that you know are going to go well before
you've even put them out?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Not really, We're pretty each episode is pretty on par
with another episode. Yeah, they all do pretty well. So
we don't really have an insight into this particular case.
We'll do better than this particular case. Nothing like that
that doesn't come that doesn't factor into the decision.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Meaning, are there.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Any episodes I know you've done over three hundred but
that you're particularly proud of.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
But the ones that stand out to me would be
one like the unsolved murder of Britney Phillips, which is
a US case and I touched them earlier that unsolved
cases are the ones that are closest to me. And
Maggie Zingman, who is Brittany's mother, came across her story
(29:20):
in that she couldn't get any coverage for her daughter's
unsolved murder that happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, And so she's
been driving around for fifteen eighteen years whatever it was
at the time when we actually covered the case. She's
got her car decked out in like a rap with
all the details of her daughter's crime and just driving around.
(29:43):
She's been to every state in the continental US multiple times,
just driving around. She calls a caravan to catch a killer,
just raising awareness, just you never know, someone might know
something somewhere. And despite that, she was unable to get
any sort of national coverage or anything. So we were
put in touch and we were able to cover that
(30:04):
story on Case File.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I forget when that was released.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It was a few years ago now, But to this day,
Maggie will still will email me and say she still
gets people emailing her because they've heard the Case File episode.
And there's been no sort of groundbreaking tips at this point,
but there's been a few things here and there, and
she's just so appreciative of that coverage.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
So to me, that's something very worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I find it so interesting that you worked closely with
a family member to create that script. I'm guessing do
you do that often? Do you have family members or
people that were close to the crime involved in the
crafting of the episode.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, not every episode, but it does definitely happen. And
I guess because we have that single storyteller style, we
don't include interview clips that might not be overly apparent
that we do that, but it does happen, Yeah, you
know often, will have. I mean, at this point, we
get unfortunately, way more emails than we could ever get
(31:04):
to for from family members or advocates or friends or
family who requesting us to cover cases. I wish I
could get to all of them, but it's just not
possible at this point.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Are there any stories that haunt you? Obviously every story
is usually horrible.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean all the unsolved ones,
I mean they all haunt you. They will have an
effect at some level. The unsolved ones where we work
with family are particularly harder than others. I would say, yeah,
the Brittany Phillips one I just touched on. I was
lucky enough to meet Maggie in person last year at
(31:45):
Crime Con for the first time, so that was really
good to meet her in person. The series that I
released last year on the Case File Presents Platform Missing
Neam that I that took me over four years to
put together that series, So obviously that four years that
had an effect.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
It's so interesting because like at the start of the chat,
you were talking about, you know, seeing the books in
your aunties and being like, oh, yeah, true crime and
now it's you live breathe talk about it every day.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Does that have an effect on you?
Speaker 5 (32:20):
I guess it does.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Obviously has because I can't consume any true crime stuff
anymore outside of what's required for work. So people might
be talking about the latest Netflix series or whatever, there's.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
I haven't watched any of them. I've got no idea.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
It's just not something that I can do outside of
what's required for work now, so I've got to seek
other sort of avenues to unwind and stuff. But yeah,
so I guess it's hard to say. I guess when
you're living every day.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, I can still watch the Netflix shows and I
live and breathe true crime every day.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
So I think it just is different people.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Yeah, it just depends on There's no sort of right
or wrong answer.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, has your research ever I know you were talking
about Britney's moum, but has it ever kind of led
to a break through or helped an investigation?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I don't think so, not that I know of, Like
that Case File episode hasn't directly led to a case
being solved. Obviously, we've covered unsolved cases that have then
become solved, not because of the case fil coverage, but
that has happened. We've definitely received tips over the years,
you know, I've had tips come directly to me and
I'm like, I can't I'm not an investigative agency, Like
(33:35):
I can't do anything with this, and sort of encourage
those people to contact the relevant law enforcement agency.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
That's a lot of pressure on you though, as well,
getting tips through your email and you're like, I'm just
toasting a podcast.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I get it's tough too because a lot of these
cases are decades old, and so from the point of
view of the person like, well, the police don't care,
they're not doing anything. That's probably their perception. Whether that's
the truth or not, I don't know, it could be different.
But if there is ever something I could actually do
to help a case, of course I would do it.
But yeah, I think I definitely don't want to be
overreaching and trying to take on the role of an
(34:13):
investigative agency. I think the first port of call is
the police.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
And yeah, you've no doubt watched the True Crime Space
explode over the last nine years. I mean, we're here,
we've popped up and plenty of other podcasts. Do you
fixate on the charts? I mean you're usually at the
top of them, so you don't need to have to worry.
But is it interesting watching it explode and all these
(34:40):
new podcasts in your kind of space come up?
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
It still remains one of the most popular, I believe
of the podcast categories, and there's been all sorts of
shows that have popped up since and continue to be popular.
And yeah, obviously there was In Australia we have the
Teacher's Pet which has led to a result, So there's
been a lot that has happened over the years.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, why do you think Case File still dominates all
these years later?
Speaker 5 (35:07):
That's a great question. I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
It's almost like every day I wake up, I'm like,
is this the day where everyone stops listening? Or it's hard?
It doesn't seem real. And it's pretty rare to have
been for a show to be at the top for
so long too. I mean, obviously we have regular early episodes,
so those bigger sort of investigative shows like Your Teachers
(35:33):
pattern stuff that are limited run, they can't say the
top because they're not there. Yeah, they're short runs, so
we have that to our advantage. But yeah, I don't know,
and we don't take it for granted. We continue just
to put our heads down, work really hard and try
to continually improve the episodes and what we're doing, and
(35:56):
as long as people keep listening, we will keep doing it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Well, you've obviously met some of your audience in real life.
You've done a few in person chats, but do you
get a lot of feedback from audience of where they're
listening and.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Why love the show.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
The most common feedback that I have gotten from people
in both in person people email in and write comments
and stuff, is just they appreciate the no nonsense storytelling,
I guess, the empathetic storytelling. There's no banter or chit chat,
so I guess they like that about our style as well.
And just what I touched on before that it's not
(36:35):
just we're not just telling stories about gratuitous violences. Generally
something else to it, some sort of impact somewhere, judicial system,
criminal justice system, police whatever. And yeah, that's I guess
the most the most common feedback that I've gotten.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I have a feeling you accompany many people on their
road trips.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
In terms of where they listen. Yeah, yeah, road trips
is very popular. Gym walks runs, that sort of thing
is very popular as well.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
And it's funny.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Actually, Anthony the other audio bridge was at a friend's
house recently and he's popped out of the car and
he's heard my voice.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
He's like, what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
And it turns out a neighbor of his friend was
in the garage doing a workout and had Case File laring. So, yeah,
that's never happened to me. I've never bumped into anyone
listening to case File really, no, well.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, you haven't seen it on their phone. I've done
that a few times where I've seen our podcast.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
On someone's phone. Yeah, no, no, never.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Because your voice is very familiar now, like you've done
over three hundred episodes, and you didn't have any audio training.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Did you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
No, But I think most people that listen would be
able to recognize your voice in a lineup.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, maybe, but some people don't know. At an event
only last week and I was talking to someone and
I mentioned I was from case File. There was a
podcast event and they were like, oh, a famous voice,
so who does the voice? And so they had no
idea that it was. I'd say that's me, and they
were like, oh, you sound very sefferent in real life.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
So you do tell people that you come across that you.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Are not everyone, but in that environment, I was okay
to talk about it that particular event, but it's not
something or I just freely disclosed and day to day
on the street or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
No, next I ask the anonymous host of case File
who he will reveal his identity to.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Nerdy again.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
But I was at the Australian Podcast Awards and I
hear you were too. I was, but I wouldn't have
known it because I didn't know what you learn.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
I was just lurking in the shadows at the back
of the room there.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, but you don't well, I don't remember you getting up.
Case File Presents at least got an award that night.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
From memory, we were nominated, didn't didn't win.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Would you have gotten up if you won?
Speaker 5 (39:14):
No?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
No, I think members of the a cast team were
going to step in and do that for us.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
So that was easy.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Street and Troubled Warders were both nominated in different categories.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
So you are still very careful in terms of like
you'll do certain things, like you'll stand in front of
an intimate audience, but you won't get up on a
stage in a podcasting awards.
Speaker 6 (39:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
It probably seems a bit contradictory. No, it clever and
in saying that, if I was at that award show
and bumped into you and you introduce yourself, Like at
that sort of environment, I would have said who I was?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, well i'll recognize you now now you will. Yes,
Where do you think the future of podcasting is going?
Is someone that's been in the world for so long
because it is so saturated.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Now, I think from what I read and see, everything
seems to be pointing towards video. Videos come a very
big thing, which I don't know what kind of Well,
video is not podcasting, though, it's a different thing.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
You'll have to get a good silhouette.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah, well, we've just made changes to our YouTube channel
so we release on YouTube as well. So as of
the first episode we've released this year, we've incorporated sort
of pitches and maps and different things that will overlay
on the screen and it's kind of like an animated
studio silhouette of a person recording. So we've made some tweaks,
(40:41):
leaning into the video a bit more, doing what we
can because obviously we are limited. But yeah, it's a
very different landscape now than was to when Case File started.
I find it now when we release case File present shows.
Sometimes even though we have a massive audience to advertise
that too, sometimes it can not take it's just very
(41:03):
hard to break through now. I think there's so many
established shows launching a new show much tougher. Not to
say it can't be done, of course it can be,
it's just much tougher now. I think the barrier to
entry is a little bit higher now.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
So if you were to try and release your episode
one from twenty sixteen now and do what you did now.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I think that would be what the original It would
turn out to what the original thought was three episodes,
and I'd be back to work. Yeah, I couldn't see
it taking off now, just with how bad the audio
was as well. So I think there's a much higher
level of quality now audio production and just the product,
the shows themselves, the content.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Do you still love it?
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Yeah? Yeah still.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
As I said, I wake up every day just so
I can't believe that the show has the audience that
it has, and that I get to work with such
a talented group of people and people listen, and that
we get to do this.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Yeah, very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
So you've just come back from summer break in February,
lucky bugger.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yes, although that is a bit of a misconception. I
like to clear up that we've been bombarded with one
star review, so we've taken too long off. I can
assure everyone we have been working very hard. I mean,
of course we had two weeks off over the Christmas
New Year period itself, but as soon as the last
episode came out last year, we would have wrapped that
up in October, so as soon as that was sort
(42:34):
of done and recorded, might not have been released yet,
but we were straight onto twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
So listeners rest assured you were working.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
You just went related to Yeah, we sort of need
that three month lead in just to get ready for
the new year, because otherwise it can In past years
it's just been a nightmare. We've barely been days ahead.
Like I've finished recording an episode, got to get it
to Mike. He's got three days to put the audio production,
get it out and that's not a good way to operate. Stressful,
(43:02):
so we try and keep ahead of that.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Now, So what can we expect. What are some of
the episodes that you have coming up?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Listeners can expect I think more of what they have
come to know and love about Case File, as varied
cases from Australia from around the world. There's all sorts
of different cases more recent older. We are launching with
the two parter on the Night Caller, which was the
(43:28):
serial offender Eric Agacook in Perth, Western Australia, and I
think what's interesting about that case is just such a
different time when that was happening, and you have this
prolific serial offender just wreaking havoc across the city, and
yet they didn't put it together that it was the
same offender. I mean, there's multiple wrongful convictions despite a
(43:53):
confession from Eric A. Gocook in this case after he
was eventually caught and he confessed, and they put together, oh,
this was all the same guy. There's people sitting in
prison for his crimes and despite a full detailed confession
that it still took a while for those guys to
get out. I just's certain things about that case that
blow my mind.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Do you ever struggle to hold back your opinion in
your script writing?
Speaker 5 (44:17):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah, yeah, I have plenty of opinions on those cases,
but yeah, very mindful that that's not what case follows about.
Speaker 5 (44:25):
It's going to remain neutral.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Just tell it, just tell the facts, And sometimes I
think people forget that. So like if we are very
common gripe for listeners and that we'll get emails about
is about the use of polygraph tests. So if we
mention in a case like you know, certain suspect was
brought in given a polygraph test and passed and failed
or whatever, people write in like furious, this is junk science.
(44:49):
It's been debunked. We're not advocating, just that's what happened. Yeah,
So even though we don't give opinions, people can sometimes
hear things and think that we are. But yeah, just
keep it neutral. This is what happened. And that's case
file basically.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
And I know you said you can secret from your
friends and family, but I'm assuming they know what you do.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
Now what do they think they know?
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Now? Yeah, Yeah, they're pretty sort of blown away by
it as well. Some of them can't believe it. They
hear my voice a lot.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Do they listen?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Some do, Some don't, Yeah, some sort of. Some are
turned off by my voice actually because they can't take
it seriously because they know it's me, you know. Some an'
into true crime and stuff like that. Yeah, but quite
a few friends and family do listen.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, Well, thank you for coming into the studio. I
know it was a bit of a treck for you.
That's not giving too much away, is it.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
No bad traffic, very bad traffic.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Everyone can keep listening to you, but just call you Casey.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Thanks to Casey for telling us his story.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
True Crime Conversations is a Mum of Meer podcast hosted
and produced by me Jemma Bath and Tarlie Blackman, with
audio design by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back next week
with another True Crime Conversation.
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