May 22, 2025 • 40 mins
We do talk about suicide in this episode, which we know can be distressing. So if you need resources or support go to beyondblue.org or you for 24 hour free counselling in Australia, the number for Lifeline is 13 11 14.
In the wake of recent, tragic losses that have deeply affected the AFL community, and amid growing conversations about mental health in sport, we invited Rob Mills onto the podcast to discuss masculinity, friendship, and mental wellbeing — and to share practical tips on how women can support the men in their lives.
Receive 15% off the package price when you purchase a selected 2025 Samsung TV and selected Samsung Soundbar in the same transaction at Harvey Norman. Limited time only!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Here at Two Good Sports, we would like to acknowledge
the traditional owners of the land on which we record
this podcast. There were innerie people. This land was never seated,
always was always will be. Oh hello, and I'm welcome
(00:24):
to two Good Sports sports news sold differently.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm Georgie Tunnet.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And I'm Abby Jelmy and Georgie. This morning I witnessed
what is being called one of the greatest achievements by
an Australian coach.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Wow, how I lifted the veil on when we record?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Maybe, but I'm just letting I'm getting into my good
sport early because a posta conglou Can you damn well
believe it? Well he did, because he always says I
deliver trophies in my second season. And what has he
done at Tottenham Hotspur the perennial almost winners.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yes, they got a trophy this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
The Europaly actually have some silverware, defeating once brilliant, now.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Very very very average.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Underlined club Manchester United in the Europa League Final.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It's still a big club, right, A huge club club,
a big moment and both teams came into this morning
with so much pride on the line, and you know,
when there's pride on the line, there's other trophies that
you'd like to be winning, because it wasn't necessarily about
the silverware, but for and it's just been the most
tumultuous time. We've heard the quotes, we've seen the pressure
that he's been under. I mean, the one this week
(01:28):
was I'm not a clown.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm not a clown.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I'm not a clown, even.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
If with a particular journalist at a press conference who'd
written an article earlier on that day naming him a clown,
and he.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Was well saying he might be a clown, and he's like,
it doesn't matter what happens, I'm.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Never a clown, never a clown. And and you'll be terrifying.
I reckon if he singled you.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Out, Oh, if he stared you down a presser and
when Georgie, what do you think of that?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I'd be like, sorry, sir, sorry.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Sorry, like two bags full, sir, I'm going to leave.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
So we digress.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It has been seventeen years since they've won any silverware
and to do the scenes this morning were just incredible.
And again, this is an Ossie in the most competitive
sport in the world.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and just achieving things on the big
stage that ossies don't do. We don't do this, And
I think that for everyone who maybe just knows Angeposteracoglu
on the periphery and what he had done in the
leagues in Australia in particular, and of course what he's
done with the Soccaroos as a team. It's a feel
good story because he is someone who's seen he looks
(02:28):
he's a cuddly teddy bear. I mean, he looks prickly,
he sounds prickly a lot of the time. But I
actually think he's one of those man managers who just
wants what's best for his team.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
There's a bit of ted Lasso in him.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
There is a little bit. It's a little bit of
ted Lasso.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
There's stories about the fact that he shakes everyone's hand
when he enters the club.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
He speaks Ozzie Boy, he speaks in some of the
great quotes.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You think, oh, we don't need to use that, and
then he'll be like, if it looks like a fish,
barks like a fish as a fish, and you're like, oh,
love of God, that's too good, We've got to use that.
He's just his genius and we talk about the pressure
that our coaches are under a lot, but to say
that this was potentially career saving, like, that's not me,
that's not hyperbole at all.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
He still could lose his own which is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Even though he has delivered Tottenham their first trophy in
seventeen years, and they do as a club and as
a board have a reputation that if a coach sneeze
is in the wrong way, they're.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Like, ah, not for you, next move on, move on.
Oh that could be contigious, honestly.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So the fact that again he has delivered civil where
in his second season, and again we cannot overstate just
how bad the injuries were throughout the season, and the
way that football is structured in Europe. You've got Premier League,
you've got now Champions League and Europa League and different
things happening where you have to perform at such a
high level and have a squad that are fit and healthy,
and he just hasn't had that available to him.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
No, I'd like to think he's been in the boxing
ring with two hands tied behind his back.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Series essentially is what he's had.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
And I'd like to think that fans are emotional, and
of course we are.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
The fact, the fact that they're all losing it this morning,
I think that that will mean that the.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Club can't shelve him.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Now, hopefully just one more season, one more seats, one
more season, one more season that we we don't have
to say Ozzy and Posta conglu.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Of course, it doesn't mean that something really killed me.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
In general news is when you're talking about Oscar Piastre
or a Posta Coglu.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Yes, before those names you have to put Ossie.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, it's still Ossie Downiel Ricardo like them forever. That's
our Yeah, that will be with them forever.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Why yeah, yeah, because people love it.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
People love to be like we claim things that aren't
all the time, you don't have general knowledge.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
They're like Postocoglu, that's not us, Piastree, what what Pastry?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Who's that man? That can't be Australian Riccardo.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
No, now, it'll be.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
With us, It'll be with us forever, don't.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, well that's about It's not the last we're going
to hear from it. But I just love that he
stuck his neck out and was like I always win
trophies in my second year and every media was like
a benchmark because that's what we're always looking for, Like,
what's your KPI?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
What do you need from this season?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
He's like, I win trophies And now he's like yeah,
bloody see.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, he's like told you, I told you guys. And
one nail score by the way, yeah it was.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Lost to you.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Yeah, I'm no spoiler alert good sport.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I also have a good sport. Dare I say a
great speek about one for a while? No, no, we haven't.
I want to focus on a club that I barely
ever mention on this podcast. This may be the first
time I've said the Brisbane Broncos are Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Do you know that?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I don't talk.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Where were they?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
They're the rdos today because they have launched one of
the best initiatives and jerseys that I have seen. We
know that we love a jersey on this podcast, we
talk about them often. They have released an all black
jersey in collaboration with the Black Dog Institute, raising awareness
for mental health.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Here's how they did it.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
This jersey is a symbol, a symbol of dark statistics,
but also of courage and mental health impacts everything. The Broncos,
alongside Black Dog Institute are shining a light on mental
(06:12):
health to turn the statistics around. Sometimes all it could
take is someone.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
To turn on the lights.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Oh I just got chills.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And they've put a spotlight on this Jersey, yes, but
on mental health for a while now. But this initiative
in particular, it's already showing. We've got evidence that it
is reaching different corners that potentially rugby league doesn't usually.
Daniel Orange, friend of the podcast on the Record now
are saying that his new rugby league team is the
Prisbone Broncos based off of this and everything that is
(06:45):
happening in the wider in wider sport across the country.
I just think it's such a big conversation to have.
It's an important conversation to have, and well done. Credits
where credits due. We are always asking for our athletes,
for our clubs to be the mirror that we need
to see and to be our role models, and that
(07:05):
is what they are doing. Do I need to get
into Rece Walsh then having a controversial video.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Punching his friend in the head.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, no, we're not going to talk about that without
focus on the good things.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I mean, Race Walsh if he wasn't so pretty. It
was just just silly, silly thing.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I know, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly silly.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
But let's not let it.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
We're not going to let it take any more shine
off what was a wonderful initiative at a very very
They didn't do this on purpose, but the timing of this.
Sometimes timing is magical. Things just seem to fall into place.
And with the big, heavy conversations that we are having
at the moment in the sporting community, I just think
that this is a really lovely moment.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
It really is.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And you mentioned George that it is men's mental health
is really at the forefront at the moment across all sport,
but particularly I think in Australian minds after some of
the news that we heard over the weekend, and that's
going to be a main discussion today.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
And we have a special guest.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Too, Spud, you that it would take more than just
words to create.
Speaker 8 (08:12):
Meaningful and sustainable change.
Speaker 9 (08:15):
It would take people like all.
Speaker 8 (08:17):
Of you here tonight at the MCG and of course
those of you who are watching and listening along at home.
And so I put it back on all of us,
if you can put your hand up and support Spud's Game.
Speaker 9 (08:29):
By donating this year. Please do.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
If you can put your hand up and be a
leader in your own communities and support the mental health
of people around you, please do.
Speaker 9 (08:41):
But when it.
Speaker 8 (08:41):
Comes to checking on on your mates, now, I think
that's a non negotiable, A one percent we would call
it in footy, those small but very very critical tasks
that need to be done and require no skill, no talent.
What they do require is character, conviction and courage. So
(09:02):
give us your courage when it comes to checking in
on your mates and watch those one percenters grow and
turn into something that may very well save someone's life.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Twenty sixteen Premiership player for the Western Bulldogs and former
number one draft pick Tom Boyd, speaking there ahead of
Spud's game earlier this year.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Spud's Game is held.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
In honor of Danny Frawley, a former Saint Kilda Hall
of Famer who died by suicide in twenty nineteen and has,
as we can see and feel, left an indelible mark
not only on the game itself but the wider sporting community.
And Tom Boyd, who's spoken openly about having his own
mental health battles and that that meant that he left
(09:42):
the game earlier than what he planned to. But this all,
and this wider conversation about mental health in sport, has
been framed by some tragic passings that we've had in
the AFL community. On Saturday, we lost Adam Selwood. He
passed away at forty one, mere three months after his
brother Troy, and the cell would family to say that
they are much loved among the AFL communities, somewhat understating it.
(10:04):
I think this one winded me. I know Adam, I
knew Adam. I went to school with his wife. It
is tragic, and we're.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Not going to go into the accolades of what Adam
achieved as an athlete or who he was as a person,
because I think their stories for his family to tell. Yes,
But we as people who are in a platform where
we talk about sports, sat back and went, what now,
what do we do? Because it's happening too often, George,
and we see these statistics around how much more likely
(10:35):
men are to take their lives than women.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Three times in this country, men three times more likely
to die by suicide than women.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
At the moment, what do we do? Yeah, that's the conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That's the conversation that we are hoping dear listeners to
begin for you today because if you're like Jelmy and I,
you would have seen the news over the weekend, regardless
of if you follow Aussie rules or not. This has
affected people who don't even know anything about sport because
it's the human element, it's the human story behind this,
and everyone knows or you get to a certain age
(11:12):
and you at least have been directly affected or know
someone who has been affected by mental health by suicide.
So we are wanting to have the conversation about what
you can do because a lot of times it feels hopeless,
It feels really hopeless. This is a big conversation. You go,
what on earth what part can I have in this?
And that's where we want to begin today. And we
(11:34):
have a very special guest, the most special guest. And
I will be the first to say this is my idea.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
This wasn't Georgie's idea, although she very much supported it,
because I was like, we just need someone who can
have the conversation with us as women on how we
have these conversations with men and how we frame it.
But also I think we need to have a blokes
perspective on this, and someone who has felt the pressures
but also has done research in this area. And I
was like, Oh, if only we had someone who'd written
(11:59):
a book called putting on a show about manhood, mates
and mental health and a little bit about what's going
on behind the bravado of the average assy bloke.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Who who could we have enter the.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Conversation, Rob Mills, George Is, Beyonce Robert.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
It's not the circumstances I thought I would be here first,
my first time on the show, but long time listener,
thank you so much for having me. Yeah, look pretty sad,
tragic circumstances to have me on board, but look always
happy to have the chat around this sort of stuff.
A vulnerable conversation is the thing we talk about all
the time about that are you ok da promoted? And
(12:37):
how do you have those conversations? How do you set
them up? It's different for every everyone. I'm going to
generalize here, but women are so good at having real
conversations because it starts at a younger age. You look
at just in the playground, what are boys doing in
the playground? Most of the time I'm generally speaking here,
but they're out kicking the footy, they're running run around.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I can attest to this monster trucks.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Yeah, they're roughing each other up. And most times girls
are sitting around and.
Speaker 9 (13:05):
Having a having having a chat about things.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Yeah, we're not good at it, and being told that
we're shit at it. So can I say it doesn't help?
Doesn't help the conversation women, if you're better at it,
help us, help help the men in your life to
have those conversations. It's going to be a different conversation
than what you're used to having because we don't we
don't like it.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I'm I'm going to butt in here, though, baby, because
because how how do you have those conversations? I mean,
I've had them with you a lot, so that's like
half our life is us just talking. But there will
be times where you go off and meet your friends
and some of your closest friends and I'll be like,
oh my god, what's happening with that incredibly important issue
that was very very new and most recent. It's all
(13:44):
I've been thinking about for the last four weeks. And
you're like, oh, we didn't talk about.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
It, Yeah, we just talk about other stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Yeah, yeah, you really do so.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I think. I think for a lot of blogs, it's
a lot of surface chat, it's a lot of banter,
and it's only until it gets to like dire circumstances
do we choose to open up. But that's why it's
in important to create those spaces for our mates, whether
it's our partners or friends or a family member. It's
getting them into a position where you feel most comfortable
to be vulnerable, and that for a lot of time
is an activity, and a lot of time for blokes,
(14:12):
it's one on one. It could be driving in the
car for me, I know, on long walks sometimes just
with one on one, or just sometimes in a group
with mates. We share a lot of stuff, which is excellent,
but I can't do it every weekend. It's so exhausting,
can you imagine. I mean, I don't know how you
guys do it, talk about it all the time, but
(14:33):
I'm really fortunate. Georgie and I've we've got some pretty
good what do you call systems in place?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We sound like, yeah, that sounds but you do.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
We go to walks, Yeah, you know, how best to
have the other person feel secure or what works for
each other, which is part of having these relationship dynamics work.
I think a lot of the time as women, like,
for instance, if I know that Georgie or if I'm
sensing that Georgie might be a well and with a
few things that are going on, and vice versa, I
will take her out for coffee, holder hands, sit opposite
her and say, babe, you're okay, and we'll go no,
(15:07):
we're not. No, and where that's just how we communicate.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Where is it so right?
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Can I say that sounds amazing? But that is that
is terrifying from most blokes. For you to look at
me and see your beautiful judging eyes on me like
that's you want to run because you don't put it
down correct, So it's side by side is probably the
best way. Like in a car, you don't feel as threatened.
So if you are having trouble communicating with your partner,
(15:34):
getting the car and go for a drive together, because
there's something about your eyes darting side to side away
from any judgment could quite often help alleviate that whatever
stress or to unlock that sort of vulnerability.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
But virtue, the focus isn't on you have to focus
on the stop sign.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
On different things as well.
Speaker 9 (15:52):
Yeah, or do an activity together, and.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Also to like, again in the context of sport, maybe
don't try to have this conversation while your partner's watching sport.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I tried this is you're picking up on things.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I literally tried to do this the other day to
Rob it because I was like, we had something big
to discuss and he was talking about something else.
Speaker 10 (16:07):
I was and I was like, oh my gosh, the
discussion is open.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I have the platform, like I just launched, and he
was like.
Speaker 10 (16:13):
No, I don't want to talk about that right now,
and then like completely shut down.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I was like, oh no, I ruined it. I ruined it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
To bring it back to the wider sporting arena.
Speaker 10 (16:25):
When you're in the sheds as you have been, I mean,
do you think that part of the difficulty for athletes,
for our young men, is that they have been raised
to try and show no vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Like you just talked about it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Then it's like it's about finding that vulnerability, finding that
space that you feel comfortable enough to open up. But
if you are an athlete, especially in an elite athlete,
you have been trained not to do that. You don't
want there to be a chink in the armor you
don't want you can't afford that.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
I can't speak for every bloke, but if if you're
talking about football, like whether it's rugby league or you're
talking about contact sport, you sort of your mind is
somewhere else. You're not after after a game, you're coming
down from actual like.
Speaker 9 (17:12):
It's war on the on the footy field.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
I don't think it's the time that you want to
be like, so tell me about Sharon, what's happening at home?
Like it's you just I think it's away from the club.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But but why aren't the players having those conversations.
Speaker 9 (17:24):
I'll do say one thing.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
For football clubs and for any kind of sporting club,
there's such great environments for blokes to know that they're.
Speaker 9 (17:31):
Part of a community.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
A lot of a lot of mental illness comes from
being alone or feeling alone. And we talk about this
thing about a problem. A problem shared is a problem halved.
A lot of times blokes don't want to burden other
other blokes. But a football club is it, or a
netball club or hockey club, whatever wherever you're playing in
is a really great space for to find your sensens
of community. So you can, you can share those problems
(17:54):
with other people. And once that, once that stops, once
you retire, you don't have that anymore. You don't have
that constant two times a week or three times a
week of those contact hours with people, Then what.
Speaker 9 (18:03):
Do you call someone up? You gonna be vulnerable on
the phone.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
It's quite difficult for a lot of for a lot
of blokes to reach out because we don't we don't
want a burden.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
So that's why I always think, what happens after footy?
Speaker 5 (18:14):
What are you doing? What were the things? What were
those contact hours with mates? How do you keep that up?
That's where every time you hear blokes wanting to go
play golf for their mates and for their partners to go.
But that's four hours, Like that is four hours of him.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Don't you dare Robert?
Speaker 9 (18:28):
No, no, no, like it is.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
It's a really important thing I think for blokes, whether
it's golf or whether it's model airplanes or whatever they're doing,
you know, like it's good to have those contact hours
away from your partner with friends. Maybe maybe one of
those conversations comes up in that if they don't have that,
they don't feel like they can share it with you
then anyway, then you seek professional help, which I highly
(18:51):
recommend as well.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
We can talk about that, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And I think when we talk about masculinity in relation
to sport, we're still experiencing a little bit of that
hangover of the nineties where masculinity was seen as you
get hit, but you get back up and never show
any weakness, you never show fear, and that then trickled
into how they would represent themselves emotionally. It was that idea,
(19:14):
there's no chink in my arms. I'm stoic, I'm strong,
I'm fine. I have to be fine because I am man.
Speaker 9 (19:20):
I'm the rock, I'm a moving I'm the rock.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
And then now we've seen and it's been fantastic. Vulnerability
is almost a buzzword around sport and what makes teams great.
To think of Carlton, when they had that amazing turn
of events mid season, they said, yeah, because we all
got around a bonfire and we're vulnerable with one another
and shared how we were feeling in the connection. And
then next minute their whole season swung because we sat
(19:44):
as a group and said, right, oh, let's lean in.
But we also have to say that, especially when we're
referring to someone like Spud Frawley ex athlete. Mental health,
particularly in the lens of CTE is so nuanced and
there's a lot of things play, which quite frankly, as
a mum of boys, is actually quite scary about whether
or not you have so much research to be done.
(20:06):
There is a direct link between those head high hits
and when it is coming into play for some men
struggling with mental health, which is why when there's changes
to rules and people go you're ruining the fabric of
the game. I'm like, better than ruining the brains of
the players. Sorry, Like, sometimes there just needs to be changed.
So we don't want to pretend that this is as
simple as learning how to have conversations, but is definitely
(20:30):
a part of it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Robert Well, I'm interested in getting your opinion on, OK,
why are men so sad? It seems like at the moment,
in particular at this point in history, young ossie men,
but even older men, that they're sad.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Why do you think it could be part of society
telling them that that they're useless. You know, you go
back to our grandfather's age. They had a place, they
had had a role, they were the breadwinner, they were
all these things. Women have pivoted incredibly well, where women
are moving into traditional men's spaces and men are like, well,
what do I do? We haven't had the tools to
(21:07):
learn how to pivot into what let's call them traditional
female spaces, and that's really sad that men feel like
they are lost.
Speaker 9 (21:17):
That's why they're turning to different podcasters.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I won't name.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Names, and ideal role models maybe.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Yeah, less than ideal, wrong, but the things that they
that they see is what were traditional kind of male
role models back in the day. But I think the
world is changing. Men a fearful of change. We don't
talk about it enough. Probably, I think that's why there's
a bit of sadness. It's just not knowing, not knowing
who they are, what space they're meant to be in,
and instead of having a robust conversation with their mums,
(21:46):
their sisters, their female friends, they just haven't it. Maybe
with blokes a bit too much. But I guarantee you
it's not as bad as what people think it is.
As far as this inceell male chauvinist kind of toxic
masculinity kind of thing. You look at the blogs that
you know you look at the men that are in
your life, they are all good men. Look, there are
(22:07):
some bad men who have gone down at bad path.
We've all watched the Netflix series Adolescents, and yes, there
could be a problem. But if you're aware of it,
why aren't we promoting the good men in our lives totally?
People that are doing good things. They don't have to
be they don't have to be saving the world, but
they just have to be kind, compassionate men.
Speaker 9 (22:24):
I guarantee there are so many out there.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
But I guarantee there's more good men in the world,
especially in Australia, than there are bad men. So I
think we should start promoting good men.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
That's the antidote.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
I think absolutely, like instead of shaming that these blogs
are blogs of crap, blogs of shit, toxic masculinity, like
blogs like what is masculinity? If you look up in
the dictionary it says attributes of a man. It's the
worst word ever, Like, what does even that mean? Like
it doesn't even mean anything. I really like this answer.
I asked this lady when I was researching the book.
(22:54):
She said, I think it's showing the appropriate emotion at
the appropriate time is a great way. Like if just
say that you need to push someone out of the
way or hold a door for some be chivalrous or
be strong, that's that's being masculine. But also if your
kid is crying, is to hold your kid, that's also
being masculine. Isn't it like he's protecting?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
So you've definitely touched on something there where I think
as you were saying, like, men for so long knew
how to perform in society as the stereotypical male, and
now that's being blurred where it's like do I open
the door or is that seen as sexist?
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Do I like that?
Speaker 3 (23:30):
There's so many blurred lines about what you can and
can't do in society.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Now just ask, just put your hand up and ask.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Talk to your female friends, talk to you, talk to
your trans friends, talk to your like young binary fend like,
talk to everyone.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Ask ask more questions, like masculinity isn't a toxic word?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Men aren't toxic?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And I think because there is such an epidemic at
the moment of violence against women and women being hurt
by their partners, there's all so horrendous. People being given
platforms are a podcasts that then become this very loud
minority that you start feeling like all that you're consuming
is negativity around blokes being blokes, and it's just so
(24:15):
far from what my lived reality is and that I've
got wonderful male friends and men in my life, and
I think the more that we can champion men and highlight,
as you said, the things that we want to see,
but also have conversations.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, it's still a hard one for mine because I bring.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
It back to we want to help people be able
to have and we don't have the answers, but help
people be able to have conversations that might save their
partner or save their friend.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
But because that is a bloke.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
But we're awareness of million percent right in this country
of like, we all know that mental illness is a thing,
which is which.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Is a growth.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
If you're working in a newsroom and someone takes their
life by suicide, you don't mention it.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yes, so this we're.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
All aware of it.
Speaker 9 (25:01):
We've all been touched it.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
The stat that we read this morning was just one
in two people up to the age of twenty five
have been affected by mental illness. And whether that's a
suicide or whether that's just severe depression. And that's also
another thing as well. We're working out what kind of
mental health issue you that you may or may not have.
You might just be having a bad day. It's okay
to have bad days. What are the things that I
(25:24):
can do in my control? Is exercise? Is it telling
a friend, is it talking to someone? Is it going
to see professional help? It's what are the things that
I can do? What's in my toolkit? I talked to
him mate Tommy Harkin, who runs tomorrow Man for all
the sens out there.
Speaker 9 (25:38):
Tomorrow Man's an excellent thing. Tommy came through the Reach
program through Jimiyid, but we.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Talked about him with Harry gas Harry Garsk.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
So I'm doing a chat with Harry actually in a
few weeks time here in Melbourne. It's going to be
great solid mates. It's called But Tommy talked about in
the book about sharing recipes, sharing recipes for blokes. One
of the ones I love the most is a bloke
who he's a farmer, sits on a track draw day.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
He's got a list of on his phone.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
So every day it's someone's birthday, or it's someone someone's
friend's wife passed away. So he'll send them a text
every year on that day and just say, hey, mate,
just thinking of you. I know today is going to
be a hard day. It gives me really welled up
because that that little message. He's like, mate, you remember
every year, and I really appreciate it. But those little
(26:23):
things that we can share with our mates that are
so just so little, Those little things that you can do,
those little nuggets are just so important to acknowledge. Your mates,
or your family or your friends go go a really
really long way. So maybe it's a friend that you
haven't spoken to in a while, you're like, oh, I
should probably cool. Just even write a few questions down.
If you're not good at asking questions, write a few
(26:44):
things down before before you start, just just so then
yeah you can you can ask those real those real
questions and actually find out how they're really going.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I have a question for you, which is we heard
from Tom Boyd talking about the one percent, is talking
about what you can do for your mates. But some
times problems are just too big for friends to tackle.
There's only so much that you can do.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Now. I know that you, I mean, you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Are the biggest proponent of therapy and talking to seeking
professional help. We saw that in lne of Adam Selwood's
death that there has been anecdotal evidence at least of
an uptick in young men seeking mental health plans the
very monday after he died.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
What does that.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Mean for you in terms of if people be listening
to this being like, maybe I could, maybe I should
consider therapy, but oh, actually, maybe I don't need it.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Why do you think that everyone needs it?
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I like it. I think it's great. I mean, if
you feel so guilty or you feel shame around the
things that you're thinking or feeling, you can't tell your parents,
or you can't tell your partner or friends, go tell
a non judgmental person who's there to help you work
through all these issues.
Speaker 9 (27:59):
Currently guarantee that they don't judge you.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
They'll be like, cool, all right, let's talk about that,
and let's let's let's let's work out where maybe where
they came from or why you feel that way. And
then you also feel like, oh, heaps of people feel
like this. I'm not such a weirdo, so like, you're
definitely not alone in whatever you thought. Someone's already thought
it before. One of the things I like this is a.
This is the privilege that I have by paying being
able to pay for a psychotherapist. I go once a month.
(28:25):
Is you know when you sit down when your mate,
you're having that coffee and you're sharing the stuff, they
often then want to burden you with all their stuff
and you're like, I just wanted to really get this
stuff off my chest. Now I have to I have
to listen to the one street and now I have
to listen to all your stuff. Okay, that's fine, that's good,
that's good, that's good. But selfishly, when you go see
(28:45):
a psych you don't have to listen to their stuff
as well. But it is just said it is super
important to I know that sounds contradictory to connected with
your friends, and that is important.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
That's true. Sometimes you don't have the mental.
Speaker 9 (28:56):
Correct Sometimes you don't have the mental capacity to.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Do it, particularly if're feeling like you need to unload
your own And I also think there's layers to this. Firstly,
it's wonderful to have so many athletes speaking publicly about
having therapists love it and psychologists and break down a
stigma that help them with their mental headspace, and they
are everywhere they're actually, most clubs now have a psych
(29:19):
that is on staff to help with players and coaches.
So this is if you're looking up and we think
that athletes, whether they like it or not, people that
men in society look up to. Your favorite athlete is
seeing a psych that is employed by the club to
take care of their mental health. And if you look
at them and think they're strong, they're achieving everything, what
they're earning, good money, what could they possibly have to
(29:41):
be sad about? It doesn't discriminate, and they are seeking help,
and whether they choose to speak about it publicly is
up to them. But I can guarantee you that the
best athletes in the world are all getting help psychologically.
Point one point two would be I think sometimes as
a partner, you want to be everything. You want to
be the person that's able to fix it for them.
(30:02):
If they're going through something that's difficult, why aren't you
talking to me? And I know that there's times where
you know, I've had girlfriends be like, oh, but if
they're seeing a psych, then maybe they won't talk to
me about it. We need to get to a place
where it's actually relieving that your partner has psychological help.
That isn't you And you can't be everything to everyone, right,
I mean you wound me, but yeah no, yeah, yeah,
(30:23):
yeah no I can't. I can't be everything to everyone,
all right. And then it's also this idea that, again
with men, they are meant to be the ones meant
to be and I use inverted comments here that carry
the burden.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
They're not meant to be the burden.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
So this idea that they don't want to put their
mental anguish on you because and I'll speak about it
as someone who's just gone through postpartum and had kids,
I've been going through a lot, so and I think
sometimes again, I don't want to go too much into
my partner and thing. But Cain wouldn't necessarily share with
me if he was going through a hard time, because
(30:58):
he'd be wanting to take care of me.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
So can I just jump in quickly? Like that's a
really really important point to make about your relationship, that
it ebbs and flows, it's seesaws up and down. Who's
the person flailing in the air. The other person has
to be on the ground.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
But what if I'm always flailing?
Speaker 5 (31:18):
Is important? I think for some couples, if you know
that you can't be that person to create that space
for them to break. Blokes need to break as well.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah, you know, having having an appointment once a month
that allows them to do that even if they need
to or they don't.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
And often recognize it from from a partners point of view,
like recognizing, actually, I don't have the capability to put
you back together right now, but I want I want to.
So maybe it's time that you went out with the
boys and had a couple of beers. Maybe not too many,
but you know, it's time that you reach out to that,
to that mate, Like that's that's a really important thing
that to know when you notice something about your partner
(31:53):
or a friend too, to say that you have noticed.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yeah, And often the therapy when you don't need therapy
can be the best. Oh my gosh, Like the sessions
where you go in and you go, I don't even
know what I've got to talk about here, you find
yourself down a rabbit hole of going. I didn't know
that that was going to come up for me because
we all and I think that's also important too that
we talk about it and destigmatize it a lot. That
(32:17):
you can talk about your mental health and how you're going,
and also that you can have you know, you can
have written a book, you can be on the Amazing Race,
you can be hosting the projects and still be having
things that are really difficult going on in your life
as well. And I think sometimes you feel like you
can't put your hand up if from the outside it
looks like you've you know, you've got it all, So
what could you possibly have to be struggling with.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
It's really hard, but you should never compare your struggle
or whatever demons that you have. Never try and compare them. Also,
like I just read writing down before about how social
media like every time that you turn it on, you're
constantly comparing, constantly comparing yourself or you're comparing your life
with other people and other people whether they whether they're
celebrities or your friends or or other colleagues or whatever.
(33:02):
The constant comparison is just not helpful at all. Put
your phone down.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Question without notice.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
There'll be people listening, hopefully men who are going okay, okay, okay, yes,
yes I know I need to talk about it, No
I need to do this, but will still have or
feel at least that they have no idea how to
just begin a conversation with a friend who's struggling. What
are three conversation starters?
Speaker 9 (33:26):
Is you sharing something first?
Speaker 5 (33:28):
Okay, When you share something first, it sort of leaves
the floor open for the person to go, oh, it's
so weird psychological thing. You're like, oh, okay, we're sharing. Okay,
maybe i'll share something or say something they've noticed about
a friend, but clearly it's about them, but without saying
oh it is. I think the best way to start
(33:49):
is creating a safe space for those conversations to exist.
And it's not like for a lot of blokes, it's
after twenty beers and oh, bloody love you, mate, of
bloody love you. I just want to I just things
and things are good at home. Feel like my brother's
guilty of this. He is cried, cried the other night
at the pub with the boys. Like what you talk about?
(34:09):
He goes, I can't remember. Okay, let's let's get there
because the tears are very important. That's releasing the pressure valve.
But let's let's go back to a sober chat where
you can actually work out what you what you wanted
to get off your chest. So share, Share, keep creating
the space share something of your own and if they're
not ready.
Speaker 9 (34:29):
They're not ready, just just let them know. Just just
let them know that that you hear from.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
If you ever need anything, that's such an important one.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
Yeah, and don't don't don't pressure someone, Just just let
them know that you have noticed something. I think that's
a that's a really important thing. And yeah, an activity,
do something together, whether it's fixing a car, whether it's
kicking the footy, or whether it's going for a walk.
I think just those those little things when you're alone
with a mate, or it could be a group thing.
Just got to work out what works for you. But
(34:57):
exercise is always good as well.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, my introt to Robert was actually his book, without
me mentioning the fact that it actually was the title
of his book, So putting on a show manhood Mates
and Mental Health. It's available and any good bookshop and
any get online as well.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Robert, thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
I know that it's such a heftic it's a hefty
topic to take on. It's a heavy one for us
to be having as well, and it's hard because you
feel like you can't hit all the nuances a well,
or you want to do it justice, so you want
it to be okay. But I think you've really helped
give us some actionable ways that we can check in
on mates.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And that's really and I think that's what we wanted
to do today, is talk about actions, because there's a
lot of chatter around whether or not there should be
a mental health awareness round, you know, coming up in
the AFL, now.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Ia, Guernsey actually do yes.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Now I'm not against that, but as something that Robert said,
I think awareness is actually pretty high in a lot
of circles. So just having the actions that you can
maybe employ or someone you know you can employ, send
them this episode. Give us your feedback, give us your suggestions.
We'd love to hear it too. It's all about the conversation.
It's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You just got to start it.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Thanks for a bit, Thanks having me guys. Is it
time for my fun fact? Oh my god, it's time
for the fun facts?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Robert Mills stick.
Speaker 9 (36:15):
Around about the fun facts.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Also, Robert Mills should be the number one ticket holder
sorry em race for oh god, hawthorn. Yeah, so no
one owns more horse like more Hawks merch my fun fact.
Luke Codge doesn't have that much memorabilia.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Luke Hodge does not have that much memorabilia. My fun
fact is that early on dating, Robert and I would
go on a lot of walks around ten and so
we'd be walking, walking, walking. I think you know, bar
twice Robert was head to toe in Hawks merch.
Speaker 10 (36:48):
Now I'm not like it's fresh from the club. Yeah,
I'm not talking a T shirt.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I'm talking an actual like playing strip jersey, playing strip shorts.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
We've also got hawthorn stocks.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
We've got a.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Hawthorn parker on. We also have a hawthorn hat.
Speaker 10 (37:02):
Like head to toe?
Speaker 9 (37:05):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (37:07):
It's a nick?
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Now, I've told him, you go after those point seven
years in, I'm like, bad, it's a nick.
Speaker 9 (37:15):
I definitely wear lesson out since me wearing my N nine.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Grand Final premiers.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
And we caught up for coffee what two days ago
when he had a Hawks jumper, a Hawks in a
Hawk's hat. Yeah, yeah, I said, is you know that
wasn't going to a game general life?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
So can I get to the Fund' not roasting you?
Speaker 5 (37:33):
We love you, it's about it's about the Hawks. So
this is from a Hawks chat group that I'm in.
It's a full Hawks nuffy. He said, if you exclude
the first quarter of every game this year, the Hawks
are undefeated ten Niel after quarter time.
Speaker 9 (37:48):
No team has beaten the Hawks from quarter time on.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
The three games that they've lost, they only lost their
first quarter and then they won the rest of the
match in all of those three games.
Speaker 9 (37:57):
It is an incredible stat.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
So like, if we just go from from quarter time on,
we're top of the latter.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
So fact, I have a theory if.
Speaker 9 (38:07):
We start well, we're good finishes the Hawks.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
The Hawks nuffy chat is just Rob messaging himself. I
have this made. That's a real nuffy. Yeah. My support
crew has Robert to Rob being.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Like, that's a fantastic start. It's not not that that
is actually a wonderful fun fact. Do you think you're
in the flag? Honestly, do you think you're in the
flag this year?
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Not this year? But I think we're in next year.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
In your second season. That's right, it's not your second
thing this year, but next year, trophy. Robert, we love you,
thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
I just before before I go, I'm doing the push
up challenge for Lifeline next month. Get around it. Three
thousand and one hundred and something push ups.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I think disclosure Lifeline did ask me to join in Lifeline.
I will support you in other ways. I cannot do
a million push ups.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
For those people, But I'm just saying for the people
who are out there finding it maybe hard to reach
out to a loved one or a mate, or don't
have don't actually have any of those people in their lives,
Lifelong is a really great first step as well, just
to even just offload some stuff or to talk about it.
We talk about Lifeline, then the numbers of callers that
went up throughout COVID, Everyone's like, oh my god, it's
(39:17):
such a shock that all these people are calling, Like,
of course the numbers should go up because more people
are struggling. It's okay, But the money raise for the
Push Up Challenge goes to helping these volunteers take more
callers and also help help people definitely definitely need So yeah,
if you can reach out, jump on my at rock
Mills and Mills to donate.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
And the conversation today has touched on some heavy and
sensitive topics. So if you're anyone you know might need support.
That number for Lifeline is thirteen eleven fourteen, Robert.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Thanks so much for coming, Thanks guys, thanks having me,
love the show, and until next week, pretty good sports.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Call your mates
Speaker 7 (40:00):
Uncle Si.
Here at Two Good Sports, we would like to acknowledge
the traditional owners of the land on which we record
this podcast. There were innerie people. This land was never seated,
always was always will be. Oh hello, and I'm welcome
(00:24):
to two Good Sports sports news sold differently.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm Georgie Tunnet.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And I'm Abby Jelmy and Georgie. This morning I witnessed
what is being called one of the greatest achievements by
an Australian coach.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Wow, how I lifted the veil on when we record?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Maybe, but I'm just letting I'm getting into my good
sport early because a posta conglou Can you damn well
believe it? Well he did, because he always says I
deliver trophies in my second season. And what has he
done at Tottenham Hotspur the perennial almost winners.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yes, they got a trophy this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
The Europaly actually have some silverware, defeating once brilliant, now.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Very very very average.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Underlined club Manchester United in the Europa League Final.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It's still a big club, right, A huge club club,
a big moment and both teams came into this morning
with so much pride on the line, and you know,
when there's pride on the line, there's other trophies that
you'd like to be winning, because it wasn't necessarily about
the silverware, but for and it's just been the most
tumultuous time. We've heard the quotes, we've seen the pressure
that he's been under. I mean, the one this week
(01:28):
was I'm not a clown.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm not a clown.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I'm not a clown, even.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
If with a particular journalist at a press conference who'd
written an article earlier on that day naming him a clown,
and he.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Was well saying he might be a clown, and he's like,
it doesn't matter what happens, I'm.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Never a clown, never a clown. And and you'll be terrifying.
I reckon if he singled you.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Out, Oh, if he stared you down a presser and
when Georgie, what do you think of that?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I'd be like, sorry, sir, sorry.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Sorry, like two bags full, sir, I'm going to leave.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
So we digress.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It has been seventeen years since they've won any silverware
and to do the scenes this morning were just incredible.
And again, this is an Ossie in the most competitive
sport in the world.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and just achieving things on the big
stage that ossies don't do. We don't do this, And
I think that for everyone who maybe just knows Angeposteracoglu
on the periphery and what he had done in the
leagues in Australia in particular, and of course what he's
done with the Soccaroos as a team. It's a feel
good story because he is someone who's seen he looks
(02:28):
he's a cuddly teddy bear. I mean, he looks prickly,
he sounds prickly a lot of the time. But I
actually think he's one of those man managers who just
wants what's best for his team.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
There's a bit of ted Lasso in him.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
There is a little bit. It's a little bit of
ted Lasso.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
There's stories about the fact that he shakes everyone's hand
when he enters the club.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
He speaks Ozzie Boy, he speaks in some of the
great quotes.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You think, oh, we don't need to use that, and
then he'll be like, if it looks like a fish,
barks like a fish as a fish, and you're like, oh,
love of God, that's too good, We've got to use that.
He's just his genius and we talk about the pressure
that our coaches are under a lot, but to say
that this was potentially career saving, like, that's not me,
that's not hyperbole at all.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
He still could lose his own which is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Even though he has delivered Tottenham their first trophy in
seventeen years, and they do as a club and as
a board have a reputation that if a coach sneeze
is in the wrong way, they're.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Like, ah, not for you, next move on, move on.
Oh that could be contigious, honestly.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So the fact that again he has delivered civil where
in his second season, and again we cannot overstate just
how bad the injuries were throughout the season, and the
way that football is structured in Europe. You've got Premier League,
you've got now Champions League and Europa League and different
things happening where you have to perform at such a
high level and have a squad that are fit and healthy,
and he just hasn't had that available to him.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
No, I'd like to think he's been in the boxing
ring with two hands tied behind his back.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Series essentially is what he's had.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
And I'd like to think that fans are emotional, and
of course we are.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
The fact, the fact that they're all losing it this morning,
I think that that will mean that the.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Club can't shelve him.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Now, hopefully just one more season, one more seats, one
more season, one more season that we we don't have
to say Ozzy and Posta conglu.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Of course, it doesn't mean that something really killed me.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
In general news is when you're talking about Oscar Piastre
or a Posta Coglu.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Yes, before those names you have to put Ossie.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, it's still Ossie Downiel Ricardo like them forever. That's
our Yeah, that will be with them forever.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Why yeah, yeah, because people love it.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
People love to be like we claim things that aren't
all the time, you don't have general knowledge.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
They're like Postocoglu, that's not us, Piastree, what what Pastry?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Who's that man? That can't be Australian Riccardo.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
No, now, it'll be.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
With us, It'll be with us forever, don't.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, well that's about It's not the last we're going
to hear from it. But I just love that he
stuck his neck out and was like I always win
trophies in my second year and every media was like
a benchmark because that's what we're always looking for, Like,
what's your KPI?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
What do you need from this season?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
He's like, I win trophies And now he's like yeah,
bloody see.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, he's like told you, I told you guys. And
one nail score by the way, yeah it was.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Lost to you.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Yeah, I'm no spoiler alert good sport.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I also have a good sport. Dare I say a
great speek about one for a while? No, no, we haven't.
I want to focus on a club that I barely
ever mention on this podcast. This may be the first
time I've said the Brisbane Broncos are Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Do you know that?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I don't talk.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Where were they?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
They're the rdos today because they have launched one of
the best initiatives and jerseys that I have seen. We
know that we love a jersey on this podcast, we
talk about them often. They have released an all black
jersey in collaboration with the Black Dog Institute, raising awareness
for mental health.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Here's how they did it.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
This jersey is a symbol, a symbol of dark statistics,
but also of courage and mental health impacts everything. The Broncos,
alongside Black Dog Institute are shining a light on mental
(06:12):
health to turn the statistics around. Sometimes all it could
take is someone.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
To turn on the lights.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Oh I just got chills.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And they've put a spotlight on this Jersey, yes, but
on mental health for a while now. But this initiative
in particular, it's already showing. We've got evidence that it
is reaching different corners that potentially rugby league doesn't usually.
Daniel Orange, friend of the podcast on the Record now
are saying that his new rugby league team is the
Prisbone Broncos based off of this and everything that is
(06:45):
happening in the wider in wider sport across the country.
I just think it's such a big conversation to have.
It's an important conversation to have, and well done. Credits
where credits due. We are always asking for our athletes,
for our clubs to be the mirror that we need
to see and to be our role models, and that
(07:05):
is what they are doing. Do I need to get
into Rece Walsh then having a controversial video.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Punching his friend in the head.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, no, we're not going to talk about that without
focus on the good things.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I mean, Race Walsh if he wasn't so pretty. It
was just just silly, silly thing.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I know, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly silly.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
But let's not let it.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
We're not going to let it take any more shine
off what was a wonderful initiative at a very very
They didn't do this on purpose, but the timing of this.
Sometimes timing is magical. Things just seem to fall into place.
And with the big, heavy conversations that we are having
at the moment in the sporting community, I just think
that this is a really lovely moment.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
It really is.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And you mentioned George that it is men's mental health
is really at the forefront at the moment across all sport,
but particularly I think in Australian minds after some of
the news that we heard over the weekend, and that's
going to be a main discussion today.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
And we have a special guest.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Too, Spud, you that it would take more than just
words to create.
Speaker 8 (08:12):
Meaningful and sustainable change.
Speaker 9 (08:15):
It would take people like all.
Speaker 8 (08:17):
Of you here tonight at the MCG and of course
those of you who are watching and listening along at home.
And so I put it back on all of us,
if you can put your hand up and support Spud's Game.
Speaker 9 (08:29):
By donating this year. Please do.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
If you can put your hand up and be a
leader in your own communities and support the mental health
of people around you, please do.
Speaker 9 (08:41):
But when it.
Speaker 8 (08:41):
Comes to checking on on your mates, now, I think
that's a non negotiable, A one percent we would call
it in footy, those small but very very critical tasks
that need to be done and require no skill, no talent.
What they do require is character, conviction and courage. So
(09:02):
give us your courage when it comes to checking in
on your mates and watch those one percenters grow and
turn into something that may very well save someone's life.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Twenty sixteen Premiership player for the Western Bulldogs and former
number one draft pick Tom Boyd, speaking there ahead of
Spud's game earlier this year.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Spud's Game is held.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
In honor of Danny Frawley, a former Saint Kilda Hall
of Famer who died by suicide in twenty nineteen and has,
as we can see and feel, left an indelible mark
not only on the game itself but the wider sporting community.
And Tom Boyd, who's spoken openly about having his own
mental health battles and that that meant that he left
(09:42):
the game earlier than what he planned to. But this all,
and this wider conversation about mental health in sport, has
been framed by some tragic passings that we've had in
the AFL community. On Saturday, we lost Adam Selwood. He
passed away at forty one, mere three months after his
brother Troy, and the cell would family to say that
they are much loved among the AFL communities, somewhat understating it.
(10:04):
I think this one winded me. I know Adam, I
knew Adam. I went to school with his wife. It
is tragic, and we're.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Not going to go into the accolades of what Adam
achieved as an athlete or who he was as a person,
because I think their stories for his family to tell. Yes,
But we as people who are in a platform where
we talk about sports, sat back and went, what now,
what do we do? Because it's happening too often, George,
and we see these statistics around how much more likely
(10:35):
men are to take their lives than women.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Three times in this country, men three times more likely
to die by suicide than women.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
At the moment, what do we do? Yeah, that's the conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That's the conversation that we are hoping dear listeners to
begin for you today because if you're like Jelmy and I,
you would have seen the news over the weekend, regardless
of if you follow Aussie rules or not. This has
affected people who don't even know anything about sport because
it's the human element, it's the human story behind this,
and everyone knows or you get to a certain age
(11:12):
and you at least have been directly affected or know
someone who has been affected by mental health by suicide.
So we are wanting to have the conversation about what
you can do because a lot of times it feels hopeless,
It feels really hopeless. This is a big conversation. You go,
what on earth what part can I have in this?
And that's where we want to begin today. And we
(11:34):
have a very special guest, the most special guest. And
I will be the first to say this is my idea.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
This wasn't Georgie's idea, although she very much supported it,
because I was like, we just need someone who can
have the conversation with us as women on how we
have these conversations with men and how we frame it.
But also I think we need to have a blokes
perspective on this, and someone who has felt the pressures
but also has done research in this area. And I
was like, Oh, if only we had someone who'd written
(11:59):
a book called putting on a show about manhood, mates
and mental health and a little bit about what's going
on behind the bravado of the average assy bloke.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Who who could we have enter the.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Conversation, Rob Mills, George Is, Beyonce Robert.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
It's not the circumstances I thought I would be here first,
my first time on the show, but long time listener,
thank you so much for having me. Yeah, look pretty sad,
tragic circumstances to have me on board, but look always
happy to have the chat around this sort of stuff.
A vulnerable conversation is the thing we talk about all
the time about that are you ok da promoted? And
(12:37):
how do you have those conversations? How do you set
them up? It's different for every everyone. I'm going to
generalize here, but women are so good at having real
conversations because it starts at a younger age. You look
at just in the playground, what are boys doing in
the playground? Most of the time I'm generally speaking here,
but they're out kicking the footy, they're running run around.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I can attest to this monster trucks.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Yeah, they're roughing each other up. And most times girls
are sitting around and.
Speaker 9 (13:05):
Having a having having a chat about things.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Yeah, we're not good at it, and being told that
we're shit at it. So can I say it doesn't help?
Doesn't help the conversation women, if you're better at it,
help us, help help the men in your life to
have those conversations. It's going to be a different conversation
than what you're used to having because we don't we
don't like it.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I'm I'm going to butt in here, though, baby, because
because how how do you have those conversations? I mean,
I've had them with you a lot, so that's like
half our life is us just talking. But there will
be times where you go off and meet your friends
and some of your closest friends and I'll be like,
oh my god, what's happening with that incredibly important issue
that was very very new and most recent. It's all
(13:44):
I've been thinking about for the last four weeks. And
you're like, oh, we didn't talk about.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
It, Yeah, we just talk about other stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Yeah, yeah, you really do so.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
I think. I think for a lot of blogs, it's
a lot of surface chat, it's a lot of banter,
and it's only until it gets to like dire circumstances
do we choose to open up. But that's why it's
in important to create those spaces for our mates, whether
it's our partners or friends or a family member. It's
getting them into a position where you feel most comfortable
to be vulnerable, and that for a lot of time
is an activity, and a lot of time for blokes,
(14:12):
it's one on one. It could be driving in the
car for me, I know, on long walks sometimes just
with one on one, or just sometimes in a group
with mates. We share a lot of stuff, which is excellent,
but I can't do it every weekend. It's so exhausting,
can you imagine. I mean, I don't know how you
guys do it, talk about it all the time, but
(14:33):
I'm really fortunate. Georgie and I've we've got some pretty
good what do you call systems in place?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We sound like, yeah, that sounds but you do.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
We go to walks, Yeah, you know, how best to
have the other person feel secure or what works for
each other, which is part of having these relationship dynamics work.
I think a lot of the time as women, like,
for instance, if I know that Georgie or if I'm
sensing that Georgie might be a well and with a
few things that are going on, and vice versa, I
will take her out for coffee, holder hands, sit opposite
her and say, babe, you're okay, and we'll go no,
(15:07):
we're not. No, and where that's just how we communicate.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Where is it so right?
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Can I say that sounds amazing? But that is that
is terrifying from most blokes. For you to look at
me and see your beautiful judging eyes on me like
that's you want to run because you don't put it
down correct, So it's side by side is probably the
best way. Like in a car, you don't feel as threatened.
So if you are having trouble communicating with your partner,
(15:34):
getting the car and go for a drive together, because
there's something about your eyes darting side to side away
from any judgment could quite often help alleviate that whatever
stress or to unlock that sort of vulnerability.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
But virtue, the focus isn't on you have to focus
on the stop sign.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
On different things as well.
Speaker 9 (15:52):
Yeah, or do an activity together, and.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Also to like, again in the context of sport, maybe
don't try to have this conversation while your partner's watching sport.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I tried this is you're picking up on things.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I literally tried to do this the other day to
Rob it because I was like, we had something big
to discuss and he was talking about something else.
Speaker 10 (16:07):
I was and I was like, oh my gosh, the
discussion is open.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I have the platform, like I just launched, and he
was like.
Speaker 10 (16:13):
No, I don't want to talk about that right now,
and then like completely shut down.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I was like, oh no, I ruined it. I ruined it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
To bring it back to the wider sporting arena.
Speaker 10 (16:25):
When you're in the sheds as you have been, I mean,
do you think that part of the difficulty for athletes,
for our young men, is that they have been raised
to try and show no vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Like you just talked about it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Then it's like it's about finding that vulnerability, finding that
space that you feel comfortable enough to open up. But
if you are an athlete, especially in an elite athlete,
you have been trained not to do that. You don't
want there to be a chink in the armor you
don't want you can't afford that.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
I can't speak for every bloke, but if if you're
talking about football, like whether it's rugby league or you're
talking about contact sport, you sort of your mind is
somewhere else. You're not after after a game, you're coming
down from actual like.
Speaker 9 (17:12):
It's war on the on the footy field.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
I don't think it's the time that you want to
be like, so tell me about Sharon, what's happening at home?
Like it's you just I think it's away from the club.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But but why aren't the players having those conversations.
Speaker 9 (17:24):
I'll do say one thing.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
For football clubs and for any kind of sporting club,
there's such great environments for blokes to know that they're.
Speaker 9 (17:31):
Part of a community.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
A lot of a lot of mental illness comes from
being alone or feeling alone. And we talk about this
thing about a problem. A problem shared is a problem halved.
A lot of times blokes don't want to burden other
other blokes. But a football club is it, or a
netball club or hockey club, whatever wherever you're playing in
is a really great space for to find your sensens
of community. So you can, you can share those problems
(17:54):
with other people. And once that, once that stops, once
you retire, you don't have that anymore. You don't have
that constant two times a week or three times a
week of those contact hours with people, Then what.
Speaker 9 (18:03):
Do you call someone up? You gonna be vulnerable on
the phone.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
It's quite difficult for a lot of for a lot
of blokes to reach out because we don't we don't
want a burden.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
So that's why I always think, what happens after footy?
Speaker 5 (18:14):
What are you doing? What were the things? What were
those contact hours with mates? How do you keep that up?
That's where every time you hear blokes wanting to go
play golf for their mates and for their partners to go.
But that's four hours, Like that is four hours of him.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Don't you dare Robert?
Speaker 9 (18:28):
No, no, no, like it is.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
It's a really important thing I think for blokes, whether
it's golf or whether it's model airplanes or whatever they're doing,
you know, like it's good to have those contact hours
away from your partner with friends. Maybe maybe one of
those conversations comes up in that if they don't have that,
they don't feel like they can share it with you
then anyway, then you seek professional help, which I highly
(18:51):
recommend as well.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
We can talk about that, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And I think when we talk about masculinity in relation
to sport, we're still experiencing a little bit of that
hangover of the nineties where masculinity was seen as you
get hit, but you get back up and never show
any weakness, you never show fear, and that then trickled
into how they would represent themselves emotionally. It was that idea,
(19:14):
there's no chink in my arms. I'm stoic, I'm strong,
I'm fine. I have to be fine because I am man.
Speaker 9 (19:20):
I'm the rock, I'm a moving I'm the rock.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
And then now we've seen and it's been fantastic. Vulnerability
is almost a buzzword around sport and what makes teams great.
To think of Carlton, when they had that amazing turn
of events mid season, they said, yeah, because we all
got around a bonfire and we're vulnerable with one another
and shared how we were feeling in the connection. And
then next minute their whole season swung because we sat
(19:44):
as a group and said, right, oh, let's lean in.
But we also have to say that, especially when we're
referring to someone like Spud Frawley ex athlete. Mental health,
particularly in the lens of CTE is so nuanced and
there's a lot of things play, which quite frankly, as
a mum of boys, is actually quite scary about whether
or not you have so much research to be done.
(20:06):
There is a direct link between those head high hits
and when it is coming into play for some men
struggling with mental health, which is why when there's changes
to rules and people go you're ruining the fabric of
the game. I'm like, better than ruining the brains of
the players. Sorry, Like, sometimes there just needs to be changed.
So we don't want to pretend that this is as
simple as learning how to have conversations, but is definitely
(20:30):
a part of it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Robert Well, I'm interested in getting your opinion on, OK,
why are men so sad? It seems like at the moment,
in particular at this point in history, young ossie men,
but even older men, that they're sad.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Why do you think it could be part of society
telling them that that they're useless. You know, you go
back to our grandfather's age. They had a place, they
had had a role, they were the breadwinner, they were
all these things. Women have pivoted incredibly well, where women
are moving into traditional men's spaces and men are like, well,
what do I do? We haven't had the tools to
(21:07):
learn how to pivot into what let's call them traditional
female spaces, and that's really sad that men feel like
they are lost.
Speaker 9 (21:17):
That's why they're turning to different podcasters.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I won't name.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Names, and ideal role models maybe.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Yeah, less than ideal, wrong, but the things that they
that they see is what were traditional kind of male
role models back in the day. But I think the
world is changing. Men a fearful of change. We don't
talk about it enough. Probably, I think that's why there's
a bit of sadness. It's just not knowing, not knowing
who they are, what space they're meant to be in,
and instead of having a robust conversation with their mums,
(21:46):
their sisters, their female friends, they just haven't it. Maybe
with blokes a bit too much. But I guarantee you
it's not as bad as what people think it is.
As far as this inceell male chauvinist kind of toxic
masculinity kind of thing. You look at the blogs that
you know you look at the men that are in
your life, they are all good men. Look, there are
(22:07):
some bad men who have gone down at bad path.
We've all watched the Netflix series Adolescents, and yes, there
could be a problem. But if you're aware of it,
why aren't we promoting the good men in our lives totally?
People that are doing good things. They don't have to
be they don't have to be saving the world, but
they just have to be kind, compassionate men.
Speaker 9 (22:24):
I guarantee there are so many out there.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
But I guarantee there's more good men in the world,
especially in Australia, than there are bad men. So I
think we should start promoting good men.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
That's the antidote.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
I think absolutely, like instead of shaming that these blogs
are blogs of crap, blogs of shit, toxic masculinity, like
blogs like what is masculinity? If you look up in
the dictionary it says attributes of a man. It's the
worst word ever, Like, what does even that mean? Like
it doesn't even mean anything. I really like this answer.
I asked this lady when I was researching the book.
(22:54):
She said, I think it's showing the appropriate emotion at
the appropriate time is a great way. Like if just
say that you need to push someone out of the
way or hold a door for some be chivalrous or
be strong, that's that's being masculine. But also if your
kid is crying, is to hold your kid, that's also
being masculine. Isn't it like he's protecting?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
So you've definitely touched on something there where I think
as you were saying, like, men for so long knew
how to perform in society as the stereotypical male, and
now that's being blurred where it's like do I open
the door or is that seen as sexist?
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Do I like that?
Speaker 3 (23:30):
There's so many blurred lines about what you can and
can't do in society.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Now just ask, just put your hand up and ask.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Talk to your female friends, talk to you, talk to
your trans friends, talk to your like young binary fend like,
talk to everyone.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Ask ask more questions, like masculinity isn't a toxic word?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Men aren't toxic?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And I think because there is such an epidemic at
the moment of violence against women and women being hurt
by their partners, there's all so horrendous. People being given
platforms are a podcasts that then become this very loud
minority that you start feeling like all that you're consuming
is negativity around blokes being blokes, and it's just so
(24:15):
far from what my lived reality is and that I've
got wonderful male friends and men in my life, and
I think the more that we can champion men and highlight,
as you said, the things that we want to see,
but also have conversations.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, it's still a hard one for mine because I bring.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
It back to we want to help people be able
to have and we don't have the answers, but help
people be able to have conversations that might save their
partner or save their friend.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
But because that is a bloke.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
But we're awareness of million percent right in this country
of like, we all know that mental illness is a thing,
which is which.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Is a growth.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
If you're working in a newsroom and someone takes their
life by suicide, you don't mention it.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yes, so this we're.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
All aware of it.
Speaker 9 (25:01):
We've all been touched it.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
The stat that we read this morning was just one
in two people up to the age of twenty five
have been affected by mental illness. And whether that's a
suicide or whether that's just severe depression. And that's also
another thing as well. We're working out what kind of
mental health issue you that you may or may not have.
You might just be having a bad day. It's okay
to have bad days. What are the things that I
(25:24):
can do in my control? Is exercise? Is it telling
a friend, is it talking to someone? Is it going
to see professional help? It's what are the things that
I can do? What's in my toolkit? I talked to
him mate Tommy Harkin, who runs tomorrow Man for all
the sens out there.
Speaker 9 (25:38):
Tomorrow Man's an excellent thing. Tommy came through the Reach
program through Jimiyid, but we.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Talked about him with Harry gas Harry Garsk.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
So I'm doing a chat with Harry actually in a
few weeks time here in Melbourne. It's going to be
great solid mates. It's called But Tommy talked about in
the book about sharing recipes, sharing recipes for blokes. One
of the ones I love the most is a bloke
who he's a farmer, sits on a track draw day.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
He's got a list of on his phone.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
So every day it's someone's birthday, or it's someone someone's
friend's wife passed away. So he'll send them a text
every year on that day and just say, hey, mate,
just thinking of you. I know today is going to
be a hard day. It gives me really welled up
because that that little message. He's like, mate, you remember
every year, and I really appreciate it. But those little
(26:23):
things that we can share with our mates that are
so just so little, Those little things that you can do,
those little nuggets are just so important to acknowledge. Your mates,
or your family or your friends go go a really
really long way. So maybe it's a friend that you
haven't spoken to in a while, you're like, oh, I
should probably cool. Just even write a few questions down.
If you're not good at asking questions, write a few
(26:44):
things down before before you start, just just so then
yeah you can you can ask those real those real
questions and actually find out how they're really going.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I have a question for you, which is we heard
from Tom Boyd talking about the one percent, is talking
about what you can do for your mates. But some
times problems are just too big for friends to tackle.
There's only so much that you can do.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Now. I know that you, I mean, you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Are the biggest proponent of therapy and talking to seeking
professional help. We saw that in lne of Adam Selwood's
death that there has been anecdotal evidence at least of
an uptick in young men seeking mental health plans the
very monday after he died.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
What does that.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Mean for you in terms of if people be listening
to this being like, maybe I could, maybe I should
consider therapy, but oh, actually, maybe I don't need it.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Why do you think that everyone needs it?
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I like it. I think it's great. I mean, if
you feel so guilty or you feel shame around the
things that you're thinking or feeling, you can't tell your parents,
or you can't tell your partner or friends, go tell
a non judgmental person who's there to help you work
through all these issues.
Speaker 9 (27:59):
Currently guarantee that they don't judge you.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
They'll be like, cool, all right, let's talk about that,
and let's let's let's let's work out where maybe where
they came from or why you feel that way. And
then you also feel like, oh, heaps of people feel
like this. I'm not such a weirdo, so like, you're
definitely not alone in whatever you thought. Someone's already thought
it before. One of the things I like this is a.
This is the privilege that I have by paying being
able to pay for a psychotherapist. I go once a month.
(28:25):
Is you know when you sit down when your mate,
you're having that coffee and you're sharing the stuff, they
often then want to burden you with all their stuff
and you're like, I just wanted to really get this
stuff off my chest. Now I have to I have
to listen to the one street and now I have
to listen to all your stuff. Okay, that's fine, that's good,
that's good, that's good. But selfishly, when you go see
(28:45):
a psych you don't have to listen to their stuff
as well. But it is just said it is super
important to I know that sounds contradictory to connected with
your friends, and that is important.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
That's true. Sometimes you don't have the mental.
Speaker 9 (28:56):
Correct Sometimes you don't have the mental capacity to.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Do it, particularly if're feeling like you need to unload
your own And I also think there's layers to this. Firstly,
it's wonderful to have so many athletes speaking publicly about
having therapists love it and psychologists and break down a
stigma that help them with their mental headspace, and they
are everywhere they're actually, most clubs now have a psych
(29:19):
that is on staff to help with players and coaches.
So this is if you're looking up and we think
that athletes, whether they like it or not, people that
men in society look up to. Your favorite athlete is
seeing a psych that is employed by the club to
take care of their mental health. And if you look
at them and think they're strong, they're achieving everything, what
they're earning, good money, what could they possibly have to
(29:41):
be sad about? It doesn't discriminate, and they are seeking help,
and whether they choose to speak about it publicly is
up to them. But I can guarantee you that the
best athletes in the world are all getting help psychologically.
Point one point two would be I think sometimes as
a partner, you want to be everything. You want to
be the person that's able to fix it for them.
(30:02):
If they're going through something that's difficult, why aren't you
talking to me? And I know that there's times where
you know, I've had girlfriends be like, oh, but if
they're seeing a psych, then maybe they won't talk to
me about it. We need to get to a place
where it's actually relieving that your partner has psychological help.
That isn't you And you can't be everything to everyone, right,
I mean you wound me, but yeah no, yeah, yeah,
(30:23):
yeah no I can't. I can't be everything to everyone,
all right. And then it's also this idea that, again
with men, they are meant to be the ones meant
to be and I use inverted comments here that carry
the burden.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
They're not meant to be the burden.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
So this idea that they don't want to put their
mental anguish on you because and I'll speak about it
as someone who's just gone through postpartum and had kids,
I've been going through a lot, so and I think
sometimes again, I don't want to go too much into
my partner and thing. But Cain wouldn't necessarily share with
me if he was going through a hard time, because
(30:58):
he'd be wanting to take care of me.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
So can I just jump in quickly? Like that's a
really really important point to make about your relationship, that
it ebbs and flows, it's seesaws up and down. Who's
the person flailing in the air. The other person has
to be on the ground.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
But what if I'm always flailing?
Speaker 5 (31:18):
Is important? I think for some couples, if you know
that you can't be that person to create that space
for them to break. Blokes need to break as well.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah, you know, having having an appointment once a month
that allows them to do that even if they need
to or they don't.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
And often recognize it from from a partners point of view,
like recognizing, actually, I don't have the capability to put
you back together right now, but I want I want to.
So maybe it's time that you went out with the
boys and had a couple of beers. Maybe not too many,
but you know, it's time that you reach out to that,
to that mate, Like that's that's a really important thing
that to know when you notice something about your partner
(31:53):
or a friend too, to say that you have noticed.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yeah, And often the therapy when you don't need therapy
can be the best. Oh my gosh, Like the sessions
where you go in and you go, I don't even
know what I've got to talk about here, you find
yourself down a rabbit hole of going. I didn't know
that that was going to come up for me because
we all and I think that's also important too that
we talk about it and destigmatize it a lot. That
(32:17):
you can talk about your mental health and how you're going,
and also that you can have you know, you can
have written a book, you can be on the Amazing Race,
you can be hosting the projects and still be having
things that are really difficult going on in your life
as well. And I think sometimes you feel like you
can't put your hand up if from the outside it
looks like you've you know, you've got it all, So
what could you possibly have to be struggling with.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
It's really hard, but you should never compare your struggle
or whatever demons that you have. Never try and compare them. Also,
like I just read writing down before about how social
media like every time that you turn it on, you're
constantly comparing, constantly comparing yourself or you're comparing your life
with other people and other people whether they whether they're
celebrities or your friends or or other colleagues or whatever.
(33:02):
The constant comparison is just not helpful at all. Put
your phone down.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Question without notice.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
There'll be people listening, hopefully men who are going okay, okay, okay, yes,
yes I know I need to talk about it, No
I need to do this, but will still have or
feel at least that they have no idea how to
just begin a conversation with a friend who's struggling. What
are three conversation starters?
Speaker 9 (33:26):
Is you sharing something first?
Speaker 5 (33:28):
Okay, When you share something first, it sort of leaves
the floor open for the person to go, oh, it's
so weird psychological thing. You're like, oh, okay, we're sharing. Okay,
maybe i'll share something or say something they've noticed about
a friend, but clearly it's about them, but without saying
oh it is. I think the best way to start
(33:49):
is creating a safe space for those conversations to exist.
And it's not like for a lot of blokes, it's
after twenty beers and oh, bloody love you, mate, of
bloody love you. I just want to I just things
and things are good at home. Feel like my brother's
guilty of this. He is cried, cried the other night
at the pub with the boys. Like what you talk about?
(34:09):
He goes, I can't remember. Okay, let's let's get there
because the tears are very important. That's releasing the pressure valve.
But let's let's go back to a sober chat where
you can actually work out what you what you wanted
to get off your chest. So share, Share, keep creating
the space share something of your own and if they're
not ready.
Speaker 9 (34:29):
They're not ready, just just let them know. Just just
let them know that that you hear from.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
If you ever need anything, that's such an important one.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
Yeah, and don't don't don't pressure someone, Just just let
them know that you have noticed something. I think that's
a that's a really important thing. And yeah, an activity,
do something together, whether it's fixing a car, whether it's
kicking the footy, or whether it's going for a walk.
I think just those those little things when you're alone
with a mate, or it could be a group thing.
Just got to work out what works for you. But
(34:57):
exercise is always good as well.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, my introt to Robert was actually his book, without
me mentioning the fact that it actually was the title
of his book, So putting on a show manhood Mates
and Mental Health. It's available and any good bookshop and
any get online as well.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Robert, thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
I know that it's such a heftic it's a hefty
topic to take on. It's a heavy one for us
to be having as well, and it's hard because you
feel like you can't hit all the nuances a well,
or you want to do it justice, so you want
it to be okay. But I think you've really helped
give us some actionable ways that we can check in
on mates.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And that's really and I think that's what we wanted
to do today, is talk about actions, because there's a
lot of chatter around whether or not there should be
a mental health awareness round, you know, coming up in
the AFL, now.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Ia, Guernsey actually do yes.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Now I'm not against that, but as something that Robert said,
I think awareness is actually pretty high in a lot
of circles. So just having the actions that you can
maybe employ or someone you know you can employ, send
them this episode. Give us your feedback, give us your suggestions.
We'd love to hear it too. It's all about the conversation.
It's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You just got to start it.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Thanks for a bit, Thanks having me guys. Is it
time for my fun fact? Oh my god, it's time
for the fun facts?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Robert Mills stick.
Speaker 9 (36:15):
Around about the fun facts.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Also, Robert Mills should be the number one ticket holder
sorry em race for oh god, hawthorn. Yeah, so no
one owns more horse like more Hawks merch my fun fact.
Luke Codge doesn't have that much memorabilia.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Luke Hodge does not have that much memorabilia. My fun
fact is that early on dating, Robert and I would
go on a lot of walks around ten and so
we'd be walking, walking, walking. I think you know, bar
twice Robert was head to toe in Hawks merch.
Speaker 10 (36:48):
Now I'm not like it's fresh from the club. Yeah,
I'm not talking a T shirt.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I'm talking an actual like playing strip jersey, playing strip shorts.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
We've also got hawthorn stocks.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
We've got a.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Hawthorn parker on. We also have a hawthorn hat.
Speaker 10 (37:02):
Like head to toe?
Speaker 9 (37:05):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (37:07):
It's a nick?
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Now, I've told him, you go after those point seven
years in, I'm like, bad, it's a nick.
Speaker 9 (37:15):
I definitely wear lesson out since me wearing my N nine.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Grand Final premiers.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
And we caught up for coffee what two days ago
when he had a Hawks jumper, a Hawks in a
Hawk's hat. Yeah, yeah, I said, is you know that
wasn't going to a game general life?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
So can I get to the Fund' not roasting you?
Speaker 5 (37:33):
We love you, it's about it's about the Hawks. So
this is from a Hawks chat group that I'm in.
It's a full Hawks nuffy. He said, if you exclude
the first quarter of every game this year, the Hawks
are undefeated ten Niel after quarter time.
Speaker 9 (37:48):
No team has beaten the Hawks from quarter time on.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
The three games that they've lost, they only lost their
first quarter and then they won the rest of the
match in all of those three games.
Speaker 9 (37:57):
It is an incredible stat.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
So like, if we just go from from quarter time on,
we're top of the latter.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
So fact, I have a theory if.
Speaker 9 (38:07):
We start well, we're good finishes the Hawks.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
The Hawks nuffy chat is just Rob messaging himself. I
have this made. That's a real nuffy. Yeah. My support
crew has Robert to Rob being.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Like, that's a fantastic start. It's not not that that
is actually a wonderful fun fact. Do you think you're
in the flag? Honestly, do you think you're in the
flag this year?
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Not this year? But I think we're in next year.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
In your second season. That's right, it's not your second
thing this year, but next year, trophy. Robert, we love you,
thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
I just before before I go, I'm doing the push
up challenge for Lifeline next month. Get around it. Three
thousand and one hundred and something push ups.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I think disclosure Lifeline did ask me to join in Lifeline.
I will support you in other ways. I cannot do
a million push ups.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
For those people, But I'm just saying for the people
who are out there finding it maybe hard to reach
out to a loved one or a mate, or don't
have don't actually have any of those people in their lives,
Lifelong is a really great first step as well, just
to even just offload some stuff or to talk about it.
We talk about Lifeline, then the numbers of callers that
went up throughout COVID, Everyone's like, oh my god, it's
(39:17):
such a shock that all these people are calling, Like,
of course the numbers should go up because more people
are struggling. It's okay, But the money raise for the
Push Up Challenge goes to helping these volunteers take more
callers and also help help people definitely definitely need So yeah,
if you can reach out, jump on my at rock
Mills and Mills to donate.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
And the conversation today has touched on some heavy and
sensitive topics. So if you're anyone you know might need support.
That number for Lifeline is thirteen eleven fourteen, Robert.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Thanks so much for coming, Thanks guys, thanks having me,
love the show, and until next week, pretty good sports.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Call your mates
Speaker 7 (40:00):
Uncle Si.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.