December 10, 2025 • 42 mins
Some of the most important conversations we’ll ever have with our children are also the ones that make us squirm - private parts, consent, “safe vs unsafe” touch and what to do when something doesn’t feel right. In this episode of Wiggle Talk, Simon and Lachy sit down with psychologist and Safe Kids Project founder Victoria Barendsen to unpack how to teach body autonomy from toddlerhood in calm, everyday ways – without fear, shame or scary lectures.
Content note: This episode includes discussion of child safety and sexual abuse in an age-appropriate, non-graphic way.
HOSTS
Simon Pryce
Lachlan Gillespie
GUEST
Victoria Barendsen - @thesafekidsproject
You can find out more about The Safe Kids Project here.
PRODUCERS
Produced by The Wiggles and Mylk Media
Madeline Joannou
Nick Webb
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About The Wiggles' Podcast - Wiggle Talk
Think you’ve got parenting figured out? So do Simon and Lachy - until the toddler throws a curveball. On Wiggle Talk - a podcast for parents, Red Wiggle Simon Pryce and Purple Wiggle Lachy Gillespie tackle the tricky, funny, and unexpected moments of raising little humans.
Simon, dad to son Asher, and Lachy, father to twin daughters Lulu and Lottie and stepdad to Jasper, share the highs and lows of parenting in the early years. Alongside their own stories, they welcome guests - from parenting experts to well-known personalities - who bring fresh perspectives and practical wisdom to the table.
Each week also features Dear Wiggles - where listeners send in their questions, the things that keep them up at night, or the dilemmas they’d love another parent’s take on. Simon and Lachy talk it through with honesty, and when needed, they call in expert friends to help provide thoughtful advice and reassurance.
With decades of experience in children’s education and entertainment, The Wiggles bring their trademark warmth and playfulness to conversations on everything from sleep and routines to tantrums, play, and the big feelings that come with family life.
Two dads, no filter, figuring it out as they go.
About The Wiggles
For over three decades, The Wiggles have been a beloved cornerstone of children's entertainment, captivating and educating millions of preschoolers—and their parents—around the world. Known for their high-energy performances, catchy songs, and colourful characters, The Wiggles have built a global legacy rooted in the power of music and movement to inspire early childhood learning.
With a mission to make education fun, The Wiggles create content specifically designed for pre-K, preschool, kindergarten, and nursery school age groups. Their unique blend of music, dance, and educational content not only entertains but also helps children understand the world around them. Generations of fans who grew up watching The Wiggles are now sharing that same joy with their own children.
The Wiggles’ impact is truly global: they’ve achieved billions of music streams and YouTube views, and have sold more than 30 million albums and DVDs, along with eight million books worldwide. The Wiggles continue to dominate the preschool entertainment scene, connecting with new generations through various platforms. Their live shows consistently sell out across three continents, and their videos are enjoyed on countless broadcast and digital platforms in over 190 countries.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia
and their connections to land, see and community. We pay
our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Wiggle Talk, a podcast for parents.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Sure, Yes, Simon, he lucky.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That's the booming voice of Simon. I'm lucky.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, that's right, I'm Simon. I interrupted.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I said we'd do it a little bit differently. Okay, sure, yeah, sure.
You know, today we're joined by someone who's helping parents
have some of the most important and often the most
uncomfortable conversations we'll ever have with our children. Victoria Barnson
is a psychologist, educator and founder of the Safe Kids Project,
which teaches families how to build body confidence and safety
(00:52):
skills from the very start. But before we speak to
Victoria Lockey. Yes, we have a pool now where we live. Yes,
and know the article came out in the paper the
other day that Lauren and I bought a house. You know,
you go through the whole thing with the agents and
you say, oh, we won't tell anyone, we won't put
the prices up, we won't do anything. And then all
(01:13):
of a sudden, you know, there it is. I said
to us, there's a photo of the pool, which I
was going to talk about, and this reminded me. It's
just a photo of the pool in the paper. Same
you bought a house, whatever, it doesn't matter, and no
one knows where it is, like they said, the suburb.
But how they're going to know? And then someone said
to Lauren yesterday, oh yeah, now with technology, you can
just take that photo and the intern will find it
(01:35):
and it'll google your address. I don't know apparently anyway,
so that but the pool, Yes, the pool's been freezing, yes,
And I think we spoke about this past but finally
finally worked it out. And there's the bubbles coming in
this bar. We're heating it up. Little lights come on,
changing color. You know, it's like it's a festival back there.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Have you got like is that done by solar.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Or it's a gas gas heater? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Wow, how lovely.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
But everything is operated by the app on your phone.
You turn on the bubbles in your spa via app.
And Lauren's on the phone to the poor people who
run the app, and he's operating our pool from his
home on his laptop. He said, I've gone home now
I'm having a beer and but let me have a
look at it for you. And he's on his computer
(02:26):
operating the bubbles. And I said, don't worry about the
follow in the paper. We've got a guy who's hitting
our pool from wherever he lives. Isn't that weird? But anyway,
it's much warmer because I tell you asher he goes
in the pool no matter what temperature, and it's been freezing, yes,
(02:48):
but now it's warm and someone else is operating our bubbles.
He turns on our blower. Yeah, which is the blower
which is operates the bubbles. We learned that it's all
about the terminology. Now, believable, unbelievable. Lockie doesn't even have
a credit card stored on the internet. He's not coping
with this conversation at all.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
That's just he seems lovely.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Can you turn on the robot as well? Do you
have a robot?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It's called a dolphin, Yes, the dolphin. And the dolphin
cleans the pool. Yes, Why can't they invent him? And
that cleans the top of the pool with the leaves
sitting on top. Surely there's an app for that.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Dolphins swim on the surface too.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, he goes up the wall and then up the
thing and but then but it won't get you know,
but I should. I we quite enjoy cleaning the leaves out.
But there is a massive hedge like it's it's just
it's a burden now the leaves anyway. But I'll be warm.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Thank you for telling us about your pool.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Something that's okay. I'll be you swingting this afternoon. Excellent. Well.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Victoria Barnson has spent years working with families and educators
to help children understand body autonomy, consent, and personal safety
in calm age appropriate ways.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Through the Safe Kids Projects, she gives parents the language
and confidence to tackle big topics like private parts, safe
versus unsafe touch, and how to recognize and trust their
feelings when something doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
We do want to flag that today's conversation touches on
some sensitive topics, including child safety and body awareness. Victoria
is all about helping parents start these conversations early, without
fear or shame, because when we give children the words
and confidence to speak up, we give them safety that
lasts a lifetime. Victoria are very big welcome to wiggled Talk.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Awesome, thank you so much for having me here.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
We are super excited, and thank you so much for
joining us today. But this is a big topic, but
you know, one that's really important to talk about. So
can we just start by asking you why body autonomy
with our children talking about it is so important while
they're still little?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yes, such a great question. I have little children as well,
so I am living and breathing what I teach and
what I talk about as well. So I really feel
that the reason that body autonomy is so important when
children are young, and this is what research shows as
well as what I've seen in my own children as
well as the clients that I work with, is that
(05:19):
we want to teach children from as early as possible
that their body is theirs and they get to make
choices that feel right for them. And if we can
teach them that really young, what we create is this
foundation as they go into childhood or through their teenage
years and even into adulthood that actually I get to
listen to what feels right for me and I'm allowed
(05:39):
to advocate for that. And it's just such an important
skill and tool for children as they start to navigate
relationships and friendships and connections throughout life, that they have
this solid belief that whatever happens to their body is
actually their choice. And you know, unfortunately, when it comes
to abuse and sexual ass abuse that doesn't wait until
(06:01):
a certain age. And so the earlier we can start
these conversations, Yes, it helps with these beautiful relationships as
our children grow, but it also keeps them safe when
they're young.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
When we're talking young, how young are we talking that
you can start to have these conversations.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
As early as they can possibly start. So I have
a four year old and a two year old, and
I have been doing this my children's whole life. And
I don't make body safety or body autonomy are really difficult,
Like let's sit down and let's talk about this. For me,
it's such a natural way of parenting. It's a natural,
it's normal. It's a really healthy developmental way for them
(06:39):
to learn about their body and how it sort of
interacts with the world. And I can give you some
examples of how body autonomy might look with like really
little children and as they go older, toddler preschool. Yeah,
so in our home, we always get our children to
choose what feels right for their body. So an example
might be when they hop out of the shower, I
(07:00):
might say to my daughter, Hey, darling, would you like
to dry your body or would you like Mama to
do it? And in that moment, I'm saying, hey, check
him with your body. You get to make a choice
right now what feels right for you. And it's so
subtle and it's so small, but it's really empowering for
a child to know, actually, when somebody else interacts with
my body, they need to ask for consent, and I
(07:23):
get to make a choice about what feels right in that.
And so another example might be that we allow our
children to choose how they greet other people. This is
something that's really big in our home, and it will
look like, hey, darling, nanny's coming over today. Just a reminder.
You get to choose how you say hello. And then
I really set the situation up really nicely for the
(07:45):
adult or the person coming into our home or that
we're greeting, And I might say, hey, just a reminder,
my child is choosing how they interact and say hello
with you. They might want to give you a high
five or a hug today, And so it just like
sets a nice home, and it's that permission to my child. Actually,
you get to choose what feels right here. There's no
you have to hug somebody, you have to kiss them.
(08:07):
I'm really big on my children still greeting people and
having manners and saying hello. But actually you get to
choose how you do that. So yeah, I think with
body autonomy, sometimes people think it's like this really big
thing and it's quite complex, and it is. I guess, well,
can we make it really simple for children? I think
we can through how we interact with them every day.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, and the basic communication like you're saying with the shower,
drying yourself or I'm assuming getting dressed yourself, putting on clothes,
would you like me to help me or would you
like to do it yourself? All those kind of things.
The greeting thing is interesting, isn't it? Because I find
that it's very easy to kind of force the hug
hello or goodbye, But just to allow your child to
(08:50):
decide how they're going to greet or to say goodbyes
is a really important thing and interesting that I haven't
thought about it like you put it. You can set
that up beforehand, not just have it live in that moment.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, And I think a big thing with the greeting
is because typically people coming into our space or into
our world with our children and people we love and
care about, right, And it also teaches children that I
am allowed to love somebody and they're allowed to love me.
And that doesn't mean that the interaction between us has
to be a certain way either. We know now that
stranger danger education is not enough and that it's actually
(09:24):
the people know and to our children that are often
hurting them. And so actually we set up this idea
that even if we welcome someone into our home and
you love and care about them, you still get to
make choices that feel right for you. So I think
there's so many powerful parts to that. But yet getting
dressed is a great one as well. Also letting your
children decide what they wear, which is just crazy and
(09:47):
sometimes this can be quite uncomfortable when your child goes
out in the middle of winter and like time, you know,
a single top and shorts. And there's been moments where
I've really wanted to correct this in my children. We
also believe in natural consequences in our house, and so
I'll say, okay, we're going to go for a walk,
and if that's what you want to wear, you can
wear that. And obviously i'll pop a little jumper in
the pram, but it's such a good talking piece that Okay,
(10:09):
your body feels like right now it needs to go
out like this. Then we can have a natural consequence
that actually this is cold. I feel that experience in
my body. Let's put a jumper on and go from there.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I've seen you talk about that. Do you have a
few boundaries though? Can you just explain that, like, for example, yeah,
like washing, making sure your your child is clean.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Yes, yeah, because a lot of hearts say to me,
but then they'll just say no to everything, which I
totally understand. Like I say, I have two young children
off my own, so I say that my children get
body autonomy limits over most things on their body or
around their body, but not safety, health and hygiene, and
so that's things like crossing the road. They need to
(10:50):
hold my hand when we're doing that, even if they
don't want to hold my hand, brushing their teeth, washing
their face, having a shower, having a bath. Health might
be things like putting some block or taking medicine. So
when I have a body autonomy limit, which as a
parent is not this is the boundary and this is
the rule for your safety. I'm really clear in that
with my children. So I will say what is happening
(11:12):
to their body? So it might be I'm putting some
block on your body right now, so I'm explaining what
I'm doing, and then I'll say why I'm doing it.
So I'm putting some block on your body to keep
your skin safe from the sun. And then I might say,
do you want me to start with your arm or
do you want me to start with your legs? So
it might just give them a little feeling of control
in a situation where I'm going to do it anyway,
(11:35):
but with them providing them with some choice, they can
sort of feel a little bit more in control. And
I will always give them the opportunity to ask questions
as well if they have any. But often just that
ability to tell your child what is happening to their
body can be quite empowering because maybe they don't want
it to be happening, and that they know a safe
adult won't touch my body in a way that doesn't
(11:57):
feel right without explaining it to me first. Yeah, lots
of levels to that but really big on still having
boundaries and rules within families. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, that's interesting, isn't The child then learns that there's
a communication that goes along with touch, and if that
communication isn't there, then that can be a sign the
instincts are telling that this isn't quite right, which you
then start from, as you were saying, a very very
young age. Yeah, definitely, Where is teaching our children about
our private parts come into body autonomy and this, you know,
(12:28):
learning consent and that kind of thing. Where does that
part of it come into it?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Private parts are a big part of it, of course,
because the other parts that we want our children to
be most safe about, right, and so one of the
best ways that we can do this is using anatomically
correct labels. So that's been really honest with our children
about their bodies, like this is evolver, this is a penis,
this is a vagina, And I know that can be
(12:53):
really uncomfortable and for us as adults, we have to
sort of sit in that discomfort a little bit. Because
I wasn't raised learning those words. I don't think I
knew what evolva was to like my late twenties. You're know,
this is not a conversation that happens. But when we
use anatomically correct labels, we start creating a foundation where
(13:13):
there's no shame or stigma about a child's body. And
often I get clients to reflect on the fact that
if we can call an elbow and elbow and in
knee and knee, why would you call a volver if
any because you instantly say to your child, oh, that's
not something we even call the right name, Like, that's
not something we even talk about. And so as parents,
(13:33):
it's taking that time to sit in a bit of
the discomfort and know that actually, when we create these
safe spaces for conversation, it can change lives and it
is super powerful. So yeah, one with private parts using
the correct labels for that sense of reducing shame and stigma.
And then also there has been some research done from
(13:56):
interviewers and researchers who have met with people who have
sexually abused children, and one of the main deterrens for
them is that children knowing their anatomically correct labels tells
them that some kind of conversation is happening at home
around sexual abuse prevention, and then they don't feel that
that's a safe person obviously for them to engage with,
(14:19):
so it's also a really big deterrent in harm. And
then from my own clinical work, if children have the
correct labels, they can tell their story accurately and it
can be followed through in the legal system. Really sadly,
a lot of the time when children don't have that
language and that ability to articulate, we can support them,
(14:42):
but the legal system does not support them, which is
really really heartbreaking. So when it comes to private parts,
I'm really big on being open, being honest, talking about
them like they are just another part of our body,
because they are. And what this will do will allow
our children to feel safe to talk to us if
anything does happen and that they know, oh, actually, that's
(15:03):
just a normal part of my body that I can
talk to my parent and talk caregever about.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm so glad you brought up. I don't know how
it came up on my Instagram feed a few weeks ago,
but I immediately told my wife about it. But it
was that exact stat about the offenders and if they
hear the proper words, it's such a deterrent, which is
so powerful. But isn't it silly? I think about this
quite often, especially now having kids. But there still is
(15:28):
Isn't there that such uncomfortableness about talking about And the
only way you can do that is start with your
kids both just calling it what it is and doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
And yeah, I say, if it feels really uncomfortable, to
start with practice just saying it with yourself, like, use
that word yourself, and then maybe with another trusted adult
like a partner or a friend, like, really start weaving
it into that conversation and you can be really straight
up back, I'm trying to use these correct labels. I'm
going to start saying penis and go with that, right,
And then once you've got that sense of confidence, then
(15:56):
you can introduce it to your children and it flows
a little bit better. But yeah, it's it is different.
It can be uncomfortable. My children have said the words
many a times at many different places, and people just
look like and pure a shock that actually a child
knows their body And I secretly am inside just so proud.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, it is so important for a child to understand
and to know, and then important for a child to
be able to say no yeah confidently without being fearful
of saying no what's the best way to approach that
for your children?
Speaker 4 (16:29):
I normally say in this instant, the best way we
can get them to feel really comfortable and confident in
saying no is to give them opportunities to say no.
So a really good one here is if you are playing,
like play fighting with your children or tickling with your children,
and they say no, you stop straight away. That's it.
(16:50):
That you might be having so much fun and they
might just be, you know, ending the play in that
really fun way. But actually your child is putting in
a boundary for their body. They we are expressing that,
and it's your role as a parent to respect it.
Because when you respect it, they learn that that's the
expectation of people. When I say no, I should have
(17:10):
that no respected. So we're possible. I really encourage that.
Of course, there's the body autonomy limits that you can't say,
you know, we need to get out the door, put
your shoes on. They say no, Like, that's not when
we do it. But if we are hugging, if we
are in play, if we're touching their body in a
certain way and they say no, listen and really respect
that because you create the foundation of how they expect
(17:32):
their no to be received. And then with that as well,
I'm a really big advocate for role modeling that experience
for them. And so if my children are really in
my space and maybe it's been a really busy day
and I'm just like overstimulated and need some space, I
will be really clear with my children and I'll say no,
Mummy's body needs some space right now. And what I'm
(17:54):
doing then is I'm giving them permission to actually say
that no as well. So the more that they can
see their safe, trusted adults doing that and saying no,
the more confident they are going to feel and that
they're actually allowed to do that.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
And does that lead into then an understanding of the
safe and unsafe touch?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yes, true, definitely, yeah, I think the safe versus unsafe
touch when they're really little, I'm really mindful about keeping
all of these conversations age appropriate. So I with my
two and four year old, have never actually said this
is safe or this is unsafe. Yet that will come
in time. So instead, what I encourage them to do
(18:37):
is feel those sensations within their body. So my daughter
has super curly hair and so when I brush it,
she hates it like that's just how it is. And
so I might say to her, like, what do you
notice when mummy brushes your hair and it hurts? Like
what is that feeling? What do you feel in your body?
What do you notice with your hair? What do you
notice with heart that you feel in your heart? And
really encourage her to feel that feeling and be like, oh,
(19:00):
so it might be something that doesn't feel really safe
to you or doesn't feel comfortable to you. And then
I also do that was really important things and beautiful
things that are safe. So we might have a hug,
and I might say how does it feel when Mamma
gives you a hug? And then we might talk about like, oh,
that warms my heart or whatever it might be, it
makes me smile, and we explore what those two feelings
(19:20):
feel like. And then from there she knows. And other
times she might go to kindy and come home and
I might say, remember, darling, I'm always here to talk.
If anything makes you feel happy in your heart, you
can tell mommy. But if something hurts your heart as well,
I'm also here. So we want to encourage children to
feel the two feelings rather than talking about them at
(19:40):
such a young age.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I find that just the whole instinct side of it.
So you can teach that then obviously, like when I
was saying before we came on air, like I've always
felt like I've just had kind of a natural you know,
Like I remember walking home from school multiple times and
I crossed the road because I saw someone up ahead
that I just didn't. But I want my kids so
(20:04):
badly to have that. Yeah, but I'm just hoping that.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, it's about trusting your instinct, isn't it That nothing
may have happened walking down the street, but if you
feel it then then act.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, that's the best thing that you can do is
actually encourage your child to check in with their body
all the time, like for random stuff like you might
be bouncing on the tramp and you may say, like, oh,
what do you notice in your body? My heart's going
really fast. Oh have you thought about any other times
your heart's gone really fast? That might be telling your
body you need to slow down, or you need a wrist,
or something doesn't feel right. And so we can actually
(20:37):
start to explore the sensations within a child's body with
a lot of curiosity. You know, it could be anything.
They might be really angry, and it might be that's
a conversation. I can notice you're really angry? Can you
feel that in your body? Like do you need to stomple?
Do you need to move your arms? What do you
need to do? Because yeah, we're creating that ability to
tappen and notice that intuition, and notice what is our
(20:59):
body communicating to us in this moment? And then what
are the STIPs? How do I reach out? Who are
my people if I do not to set within my body?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, that's on many different levels than because I think
we automatically think about this unsafe touch being how does
that make me feel? But you actually need to learn
our bodies, Like you're brushing your daughters here, how does
it make you feel? Your heart's raising? How does it
make you feel? They're the conversations we should be having,
which then enable your child to know what feels right
(21:27):
and feels wrong. If something were to eventuate, they found
themselves in it in a situation I've kind of shocked
to and I had heard it before, But a lot
of abuse can happen from someone the child already knows.
What are some red flags that parents can look out
for If there's that kind of manipulation going on, or
(21:49):
something with a friend or a family member that might
actually be starting to happen.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, And I just want to acknowledge that this is
a really difficult conversation and it is really really hard
and for someone like me, this has been my whole career,
but as soon as I had children, it was just
such a shift, right, Like I felt really comfortable in
the work that I was doing, and I worked on
both sides before children, So I worked with young people
(22:15):
who had been harmed in sexual abuse, but also young
people and children who had harmed other children. And so
I just want to acknowledge, like, this is really challenging stuff,
and having the conversation and having a platform and sharing
these messages is so powerful and I'm very grateful to
be here for that. Red flags and things to look
(22:35):
out for, there are sort of a few different parts here,
and I like to kind of talk about them as
warning signs. One part of it is we want to
teach our children, which leads on from our last chat
around what the warning signs are in their body, and
so the more we can get them to tune into
their body, the more that we can talk to them
about that butterfly feeling, or we can talk to them
(22:56):
about that sort of foggy feeling that happens in their
mind or the bobbly legs that they get, because we
want them to notice the warning signs too, because there's
going to be times when we're not there or we're
not around to pick up all the other stuff as well.
So one aspect is getting children to tune in with
their body, recognize the warning signs within them, and know
(23:17):
because of all of the conversations that you've had that
you are a safe person for them to speak to
if they need to. And then in terms of what
we can be looking out for as parents, these kind
of fall into two parts emotional and behavioral changes within
your child. And I just want to preface this with
if these things are happening, it does not one hundred
percent mean your child has been sexually abused. We see
(23:38):
emotional and behavioral changes for a real range of things.
It might be bullying, friendships, struggling academically, like, there is
a lot that could cause these things. But if you
notice your child has become really angry, really aggressive behavior
that they typically weren't doing previously, maybe they're really tearful,
(23:59):
they're crying all the time. Maybe they become really withdrawn,
they want to isolate, if they are disengaging from friendships,
disengaging from activities that bring them joy, like if they
love riding their bike and they don't like riding their
bike all of a sudden, and it's quite a noticeable shift.
These are all things that we can be looking out for.
(24:19):
And parents and caregiverers know their children best, So when
you notice something that's off, there's normally a good sign
something is off because with all behavior, it is a
form of communication. So whether that's aggressive behavior or withdrawn behavior,
the child is communicating something to you. And so it's
really wonderful if we have capacity as parents and caregivers
(24:41):
to come at that with a bit of curiosity and
give space for our young people to talk to us
about that.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
How do you approach that with your child, that conversation
If you have noticed some changes like that.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Yep, so, and I notice them all the time. Because
children are children.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
It can be for a whole very range of reasons,
you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's important to kind of
then distinguish what is going on, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Yeah, So I just have one vivid memory of picking
my daughter up from KINDI and her behavior was just off,
like instantly off, and as a mom, I was like, oh,
something's happened here, and I could really feel it, and
I said, hey, darling, like I noticed something feels different
with you today. Do you want to talk to mommy
about it? She said no, And I'm really big or
not pressing in that moment, give the space. No, Okay,
(25:26):
if you need to, we can chat about it when
you're already. I'm always here to listen to you no
matter what. Later on we got home, the behavior was continuing.
We have a little emotions feeling space in our house.
We went down there and I said, Darling, you're really
really angry. I can see in your face and I
can see in your body. Do you want to tell
mom what happened today? And so then it allowed that
(25:48):
conversation to unfold as to what had happened, and then
we could work through that together so we can label
what we see within our child. I can notice this
in your body. For some children, this is really triggering,
so take it as you will, but it might be
I noticed that you're really upset at the moment. I
can see you have tears at the moment. Is there
anything that I can do to support you right now?
(26:09):
Is it anything that you would like to share with
me right now? I'm always here to listen to you. Yeah,
those types of conversations.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's just so powerful. Isn't you want to be that
parent that your child talks to? But this is all
starting from what you've just spoken about for the last
twenty minutes. Is all sets up that trust them and
the love and that they will then come to you
when something is hopefully never never happening.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
But not necessarily something you think, like, I didn't grow
up with these conversations at home, so it's something like
we talked about it. It can be uncomfortable, but can
be awkward, and it doesn't need to be. It needs
to be quite matter of fact and a very simple
way in discussing it. But when you don't grow up
with it, then it's a new learning as parents as
(26:56):
well to sort of work through this, to be able
to communicate that way with your children.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Tricky, Yeah, it is, And I think that's a huge
part of it. That our brain likes things that are familiar, right,
and that's what it craves in it's every day. And
so when we go to teach our children something that
we were never taught, it is so unfamiliar and so uncertain,
and our brain instantly wants to be like, well, this
doesn't feel safe, and so yeah, I also didn't grow
(27:21):
up with these conversations, and so it has It's been
such a journey to find what it is within me
that holds back the conversation sometimes. And is it that
I'm not wanting to offend somebody by saying, oh no,
my child won't hug you, or we can't do a playdate.
Yet It is definitely a journey.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Playdates is the next thing, isn't it. And then when
they get a bit older, sleepovers and all those kind
of things that you have to sort of please actually
don't never grow up. Just yeah, but what sort of
conversation do you have around play dates and then sleepovers
and those types of things.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I know I'm the same. I'm just hopeful that my
children stay little forever and that I never have to
eventually get there. But also in that, I know that
I've given them the skills and the tools the best
I possibly can to be able to keep themselves safe.
So there's a part of me that's okay with it.
So when it comes to playdates and sleepovers, I know
(28:25):
there's a bit of chat online or quite a bit
around like no sleepovers, no playdates. I don't believe in that.
I think that we want to grow children that are
healthy and that independent and they can be away from
us in a really safe way. So although I support them,
I have very strong rules around them. So one of
(28:46):
the things that I would say, number one, does your
child have body safety education? Do they know about consent?
Do they know about body autonomy? Do they know about boundaries?
Do they know how to advocate and speak up for themselves?
Because unless they can do that, then it's probably not
a safe choice. And then from there, the second part
is what is the relationship with me and the other
(29:08):
family or the host family. What is that relationship like?
And I think a good test of that relationship is
whether or not you can ask the big questions, Because
if you can't ask the big questions, it's probably a
good sign that that friendship or relationship just needs to
build a little bit more. And so when I say
big questions, I'm meeting questions around supervision. So who's watching
(29:31):
the children? And where are they allowed to play? Does
the door always have to be open? Are they allowed
to play alone? What does supervision look like? Another big
one is what adults are in the home, because you
might have a really good relationship with the parents, but
maybe an older sibling is in the home and they're
having a group of friends over and you don't know
(29:52):
any of those groups of friends, so asking who will
be there. Screens is another really big one. What is
the family's rules or around screen time, because we know
the research around children being exposed to pornography is completely
accidental most of the time, and so what is happening
with screens, what is locked? Where can they be on them?
(30:12):
Questions around privacy like can my child get changed? Can
they go the toilet? All of those types of things.
So I actually on my Instagram have a really good
free checklist about questions to ask before playdates and sleepovers,
and in there there's also different ways that you can
continue to build that relationship without leaving your child there.
(30:33):
So that can be really helpful as well to know
exactly questions to ask, as well as how to say
no gently to other host families without offending people, because
I think that often when we teach our children this
way of living and knowing their body. Actually, the difficulty
is how we communicate that with those other people in
(30:54):
our community and world of our children.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah, we need to be able to ask those questions.
And if another parent your ask feels uncomfortable about it,
then well so be it really ultimately, because it's about
our children's safety.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what I always say, Like, can
we just put the child at the center and take
a really deep breath and then ask the questions And
it doesn't have to be confrontational. It might be something like, oh,
in our home, we're really big on children playing in
open spaces like the lounge room or outside. What are
the rules in your house? That's all it is. And
if they say, oh, yeah, we can do that, or
(31:30):
oh no, our children we let them play alone, you
might then allow that conversation to unfold. But typically when
we lead the conversation with what our rules and boundaries are,
families sort of pick that up and go, okay, we
can also do this way at our home.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, And hopefully these conversations become the norm in everyone's households,
and so asking those questions a very normal part of
the development of our children and with playdates and sleepovers
and that sort of thing. You mentioned screens and online
and the boundaries. That's a whole other thing, isn't it.
(32:05):
But when do you start having those discussions with your
children with regards to those boundaries and the body safety online.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
I think when it comes to screens, I'm really mindful
of our role as parents and caregivers is how do
we ensure that any access that they do have is safe?
And so there's lots of parental locks and programs and
things that can be used now as well as monitoring.
You know, you can see what children are accessing and
what they're not accessing. Really big on children only having
(32:37):
access to devices in spaces where their parents and caregivers
are as well, because that way you can just monitor
and if they see something, you are right there to
support them through that. Unfortunately, exposure to an appropriate content
online can have such a long term effect. I have
clients that I've supported for a long time now that
(32:58):
are heavily traumatized by what they have seen completely accidentally,
and so we just have to be super mindful with
as parents around the locks that we have and then
where our children are accessing it and again, hopefully through
all of this conversation and keeping body safety and body
autonomy really natural and you're parenting, if your child was
(33:19):
to come across something, they might hopefully have that conversation
with you and say, actually, Mum, I've noticed something. Can
we talk about it? Something along those lines, You can
preface it as a child gets older and say, hey,
if anything comes on your screen that makes you feel uncomfortable,
you notice any of those feelings inside your body, I'm
always here to talk to you. You'll never be in trouble,
(33:41):
but I'm here if you need me. So we can
start those conversations as a child gets older, but probably
priesce for we would just need to be monitoring at
that point.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
What do you say to people who would say this
is all just being like a loss of innocence and
them needing to grow up before they need to open
kind of what's your.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Answer to that?
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I think with that we have to be mindful that
everything is age appropriate. There's you know, when we teach
our children how to cross the road, we might say
you need to hold my hand, you need to look
both ways, you need to listen for a car. We
don't say to the child. If you do not do that,
a car will hit you, it will squish you, you
will die, you know, Like we don't do that right.
(34:22):
And it's the same when it comes to talking to
a child about their body, like, oh, you need to
ask somebody before you hug them. That's not because of
what could happen as they get older. So I think
when people think children are losing their innocence, I have
been on the other side of children who have actually
lost their innocence, and so I just say, become curious
(34:43):
with this and become curious with that stance of oh,
I need to protect their innocence because education is empowering.
It doesn't take away from that. It allows them to
remain innocent. It's when we don't give them the education
that they lose that because I see so I can
appreciate it and I can understand it. But knowledge is power,
(35:05):
and we can do it in an age appropriate way
where we don't have to explain the dangers and terrible
things that could happen. My children have no idea and
I hope that's for a very very, very very long
time about what I do for work or my four
year old thinks that I talk to children to make
them feel happy, which is kind of similar to you guys.
You know, it's like she was also very excited that
(35:26):
I was. She couldn't kind of wrap her brain around it.
You know, we can do it in a way to
protect them.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I love that you said, I wrote it down, but
it kind of this is like swimming lessons that you
don't make them scared of swimming. It gives them so
much more confidence. And it's the same with It's the
same with all this body chat. It actually doesn't make
them scared of anything. It just gives them that confidence
of knowing themselves.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, if your child does disclose something to you, or
that something or someone made them feel uncomfortable as a parent,
what's the best way for us to react to that
and to help them through that.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Firstly, I'd say take a really deep breath, because when
a child tells you or discloses something, because it is
very confronting and it's obviously a lot of high emotions
at that point. So I would say take a deep breath.
And then the next thing is you believe them no
matter what, because what a child needs in that moment
is just to be heard and just to be seen
(36:24):
in what they are experiencing and then go from there.
So the best question that I can say is, if
a child comes to you, we want to keep it
super open ended. We don't want to lead the conversation anywhere,
and so you can say something like can you tell
me what happened next? And then what happened after that?
Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
(36:45):
And so it's very open and we just want to
provide that space to allow that conversation to flow. We
want to be really mindful of questions of oh, and
did they do this? And then did this happen next?
It's really like allow that to be and then once
that's happened, and there's a lot of praise, there's a
lot of connection. I'm so so proud of you for
telling me. I'm so grateful that you felt safe to
(37:07):
share this with me. This is with mummy now, or
with daddy or with your caregiver. We're here to support you.
You don't have to hold this on your own. I
am here lots of praise and reassurance, and then from
there it's connecting and with local police, local child protection services. Yeah,
and that will lead a whole different process, and that's
sort of different wherever you live.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
This is such an important conversation and it should be
a conversation that we are having within our families, and
like you saying, from a very very young age, to
help our children understand, to give them that instinct and
that understanding of how they feel in their own bodies.
And I know a lot of us didn't grow up
with this, and you know, I don't know if I'm
(37:50):
saying this the right way. Is a shame, It is
a terrible shame that we have to have these conversations,
but it is such an important conversation to have. And
thank you for the work that you were doing. And
we will give your Instagram handle so people can come
and find you and look up in more detail if
they want more information. But we are very very grateful.
I was very nervous about this chat and feeling uncomfortable,
(38:12):
but you don't feel that way anymore. It's that in
such a clear way, in a way that I know
all parents can think of ways that they can then
communicate this with their children and their families. But so
thank you Victoria for coming on. We will talk.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Oh, thank you so much for having me, And that's
a really big part of what I do is actually
making this conversation so accessible that it doesn't have to
be scary, it doesn't have to be difficult, that it
can just be a really normal part of your parenting.
So I'm so grateful to be here and have a
platform to share something that is very dear to me
(38:47):
and the work that I do. So thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Well. Lucky Victoria put things very simply, very clear, and
like I said, I was feeling not sure how to
have this conversation because it's not something that I've ever
grown up with or felt that comfortable about. But there's
no reason why we shouldn't feel comfortable about talking with
(39:18):
our children in the context she put it in, in
the way she spoke about it, and about our body
parts of it. A's just a matter of fact. It's
who we are, it's what we are, and to give
our children understanding and hope that they then have the
ability to communicate. But because of the way we've communicated
with them, because we've asked questions of our children, how
does that make you feel? And asking them is it
(39:39):
okay if I draw you now? Or do you want
to draw? Yourself, those questions and those comments. You wouldn't
even think that that's informing a child that they have
a choice and they're able to say yes or no.
But that's exactly what it does.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, And like she said at the start, that's the
whole hope of what she does talk about that it
kind of makes you I feel quite positively up right
now after that conversation, because it's it's just little things
you can start practicing today that make all the difference.
Is so powerful and can be a really okay thing
to talk about.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah, she was awesome and what she said about you know,
you asked the question about a loss of innocence. The
end result, the devastating thing about this is the real
loss of innocence that a child could have. And so
the more we can do now with our children, did
these conversations we can have, then hopefully our children will
(40:32):
never end up in an awful situation like that.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
No, and always developmentally appropriate.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
As well, which is that's right?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Which is Yeah, this is so random, but it brought
up a memory of when we're in the UK. The
first time we went walking to a cafe or something
and Mum, it was just such a perfect little moment
and we laughed. But Mum said, I think the little
girl went to walk on the road and she said,
don't walk on the road, you'll get squashed like strawberry jam.
And that's not that's appropriate to the terms of using
(41:01):
a spread. But I'm just so random. That's what came
to my vibe. But Victoria, thank you so much. That
was so wonderful. I'm really hoping this reaches a lot
of people because it was really, really great. And if
today's chat has brought up some questions or made you
realize that it's time to start having these conversations at home,
we cannot recommend enough The Safe Kids Project.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yeah, Victoria has created simple, practical tools that make it
easy to teach your children about body autonomy, consent, and
safety without fear or overwhelm.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
You can learn more at the safekidsproject dot com or
follow Victoria on Instagram at the Safe Kids Project. We'll
put all the links in the show.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Notes, and if you are enjoying the show, please take
a moment to rate and review the show. It really
helps other parents find us, and for this particular chat,
we'd love as many parents to find this one as possible.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yes, thank you for listening to Wiggle Talk. It is
a podcast for parents.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah, thanks so much. On te
The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia
and their connections to land, see and community. We pay
our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Wiggle Talk, a podcast for parents.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Sure, Yes, Simon, he lucky.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That's the booming voice of Simon. I'm lucky.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, that's right, I'm Simon. I interrupted.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I said we'd do it a little bit differently. Okay, sure, yeah, sure.
You know, today we're joined by someone who's helping parents
have some of the most important and often the most
uncomfortable conversations we'll ever have with our children. Victoria Barnson
is a psychologist, educator and founder of the Safe Kids Project,
which teaches families how to build body confidence and safety
(00:52):
skills from the very start. But before we speak to
Victoria Lockey. Yes, we have a pool now where we live. Yes,
and know the article came out in the paper the
other day that Lauren and I bought a house. You know,
you go through the whole thing with the agents and
you say, oh, we won't tell anyone, we won't put
the prices up, we won't do anything. And then all
(01:13):
of a sudden, you know, there it is. I said
to us, there's a photo of the pool, which I
was going to talk about, and this reminded me. It's
just a photo of the pool in the paper. Same
you bought a house, whatever, it doesn't matter, and no
one knows where it is, like they said, the suburb.
But how they're going to know? And then someone said
to Lauren yesterday, oh yeah, now with technology, you can
just take that photo and the intern will find it
(01:35):
and it'll google your address. I don't know apparently anyway,
so that but the pool, Yes, the pool's been freezing, yes,
And I think we spoke about this past but finally
finally worked it out. And there's the bubbles coming in
this bar. We're heating it up. Little lights come on,
changing color. You know, it's like it's a festival back there.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Have you got like is that done by solar.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Or it's a gas gas heater? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Wow, how lovely.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
But everything is operated by the app on your phone.
You turn on the bubbles in your spa via app.
And Lauren's on the phone to the poor people who
run the app, and he's operating our pool from his
home on his laptop. He said, I've gone home now
I'm having a beer and but let me have a
look at it for you. And he's on his computer
(02:26):
operating the bubbles. And I said, don't worry about the
follow in the paper. We've got a guy who's hitting
our pool from wherever he lives. Isn't that weird? But anyway,
it's much warmer because I tell you asher he goes
in the pool no matter what temperature, and it's been freezing, yes,
(02:48):
but now it's warm and someone else is operating our bubbles.
He turns on our blower. Yeah, which is the blower
which is operates the bubbles. We learned that it's all
about the terminology. Now, believable, unbelievable. Lockie doesn't even have
a credit card stored on the internet. He's not coping
with this conversation at all.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
That's just he seems lovely.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Can you turn on the robot as well? Do you
have a robot?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It's called a dolphin, Yes, the dolphin. And the dolphin
cleans the pool. Yes, Why can't they invent him? And
that cleans the top of the pool with the leaves
sitting on top. Surely there's an app for that.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Dolphins swim on the surface too.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, he goes up the wall and then up the
thing and but then but it won't get you know,
but I should. I we quite enjoy cleaning the leaves out.
But there is a massive hedge like it's it's just
it's a burden now the leaves anyway. But I'll be warm.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Thank you for telling us about your pool.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Something that's okay. I'll be you swingting this afternoon. Excellent. Well.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Victoria Barnson has spent years working with families and educators
to help children understand body autonomy, consent, and personal safety
in calm age appropriate ways.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Through the Safe Kids Projects, she gives parents the language
and confidence to tackle big topics like private parts, safe
versus unsafe touch, and how to recognize and trust their
feelings when something doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
We do want to flag that today's conversation touches on
some sensitive topics, including child safety and body awareness. Victoria
is all about helping parents start these conversations early, without
fear or shame, because when we give children the words
and confidence to speak up, we give them safety that
lasts a lifetime. Victoria are very big welcome to wiggled Talk.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Awesome, thank you so much for having me here.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
We are super excited, and thank you so much for
joining us today. But this is a big topic, but
you know, one that's really important to talk about. So
can we just start by asking you why body autonomy
with our children talking about it is so important while
they're still little?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yes, such a great question. I have little children as well,
so I am living and breathing what I teach and
what I talk about as well. So I really feel
that the reason that body autonomy is so important when
children are young, and this is what research shows as
well as what I've seen in my own children as
well as the clients that I work with, is that
(05:19):
we want to teach children from as early as possible
that their body is theirs and they get to make
choices that feel right for them. And if we can
teach them that really young, what we create is this
foundation as they go into childhood or through their teenage
years and even into adulthood that actually I get to
listen to what feels right for me and I'm allowed
(05:39):
to advocate for that. And it's just such an important
skill and tool for children as they start to navigate
relationships and friendships and connections throughout life, that they have
this solid belief that whatever happens to their body is
actually their choice. And you know, unfortunately, when it comes
to abuse and sexual ass abuse that doesn't wait until
(06:01):
a certain age. And so the earlier we can start
these conversations, Yes, it helps with these beautiful relationships as
our children grow, but it also keeps them safe when
they're young.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
When we're talking young, how young are we talking that
you can start to have these conversations.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
As early as they can possibly start. So I have
a four year old and a two year old, and
I have been doing this my children's whole life. And
I don't make body safety or body autonomy are really difficult,
Like let's sit down and let's talk about this. For me,
it's such a natural way of parenting. It's a natural,
it's normal. It's a really healthy developmental way for them
(06:39):
to learn about their body and how it sort of
interacts with the world. And I can give you some
examples of how body autonomy might look with like really
little children and as they go older, toddler preschool. Yeah,
so in our home, we always get our children to
choose what feels right for their body. So an example
might be when they hop out of the shower, I
(07:00):
might say to my daughter, Hey, darling, would you like
to dry your body or would you like Mama to
do it? And in that moment, I'm saying, hey, check
him with your body. You get to make a choice
right now what feels right for you. And it's so
subtle and it's so small, but it's really empowering for
a child to know, actually, when somebody else interacts with
my body, they need to ask for consent, and I
(07:23):
get to make a choice about what feels right in that.
And so another example might be that we allow our
children to choose how they greet other people. This is
something that's really big in our home, and it will
look like, hey, darling, nanny's coming over today. Just a reminder.
You get to choose how you say hello. And then
I really set the situation up really nicely for the
(07:45):
adult or the person coming into our home or that
we're greeting, And I might say, hey, just a reminder,
my child is choosing how they interact and say hello
with you. They might want to give you a high
five or a hug today, And so it just like
sets a nice home, and it's that permission to my child. Actually,
you get to choose what feels right here. There's no
you have to hug somebody, you have to kiss them.
(08:07):
I'm really big on my children still greeting people and
having manners and saying hello. But actually you get to
choose how you do that. So yeah, I think with
body autonomy, sometimes people think it's like this really big
thing and it's quite complex, and it is. I guess, well,
can we make it really simple for children? I think
we can through how we interact with them every day.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, and the basic communication like you're saying with the shower,
drying yourself or I'm assuming getting dressed yourself, putting on clothes,
would you like me to help me or would you
like to do it yourself? All those kind of things.
The greeting thing is interesting, isn't it? Because I find
that it's very easy to kind of force the hug
hello or goodbye, But just to allow your child to
(08:50):
decide how they're going to greet or to say goodbyes
is a really important thing and interesting that I haven't
thought about it like you put it. You can set
that up beforehand, not just have it live in that moment.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, And I think a big thing with the greeting
is because typically people coming into our space or into
our world with our children and people we love and
care about, right, And it also teaches children that I
am allowed to love somebody and they're allowed to love me.
And that doesn't mean that the interaction between us has
to be a certain way either. We know now that
stranger danger education is not enough and that it's actually
(09:24):
the people know and to our children that are often
hurting them. And so actually we set up this idea
that even if we welcome someone into our home and
you love and care about them, you still get to
make choices that feel right for you. So I think
there's so many powerful parts to that. But yet getting
dressed is a great one as well. Also letting your
children decide what they wear, which is just crazy and
(09:47):
sometimes this can be quite uncomfortable when your child goes
out in the middle of winter and like time, you know,
a single top and shorts. And there's been moments where
I've really wanted to correct this in my children. We
also believe in natural consequences in our house, and so
I'll say, okay, we're going to go for a walk,
and if that's what you want to wear, you can
wear that. And obviously i'll pop a little jumper in
the pram, but it's such a good talking piece that Okay,
(10:09):
your body feels like right now it needs to go
out like this. Then we can have a natural consequence
that actually this is cold. I feel that experience in
my body. Let's put a jumper on and go from there.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I've seen you talk about that. Do you have a
few boundaries though? Can you just explain that, like, for example, yeah,
like washing, making sure your your child is clean.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Yes, yeah, because a lot of hearts say to me,
but then they'll just say no to everything, which I
totally understand. Like I say, I have two young children
off my own, so I say that my children get
body autonomy limits over most things on their body or
around their body, but not safety, health and hygiene, and
so that's things like crossing the road. They need to
(10:50):
hold my hand when we're doing that, even if they
don't want to hold my hand, brushing their teeth, washing
their face, having a shower, having a bath. Health might
be things like putting some block or taking medicine. So
when I have a body autonomy limit, which as a
parent is not this is the boundary and this is
the rule for your safety. I'm really clear in that
with my children. So I will say what is happening
(11:12):
to their body? So it might be I'm putting some
block on your body right now, so I'm explaining what
I'm doing, and then I'll say why I'm doing it.
So I'm putting some block on your body to keep
your skin safe from the sun. And then I might say,
do you want me to start with your arm or
do you want me to start with your legs? So
it might just give them a little feeling of control
in a situation where I'm going to do it anyway,
(11:35):
but with them providing them with some choice, they can
sort of feel a little bit more in control. And
I will always give them the opportunity to ask questions
as well if they have any. But often just that
ability to tell your child what is happening to their
body can be quite empowering because maybe they don't want
it to be happening, and that they know a safe
adult won't touch my body in a way that doesn't
(11:57):
feel right without explaining it to me first. Yeah, lots
of levels to that but really big on still having
boundaries and rules within families. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, that's interesting, isn't The child then learns that there's
a communication that goes along with touch, and if that
communication isn't there, then that can be a sign the
instincts are telling that this isn't quite right, which you
then start from, as you were saying, a very very
young age. Yeah, definitely, Where is teaching our children about
our private parts come into body autonomy and this, you know,
(12:28):
learning consent and that kind of thing. Where does that
part of it come into it?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Private parts are a big part of it, of course,
because the other parts that we want our children to
be most safe about, right, and so one of the
best ways that we can do this is using anatomically
correct labels. So that's been really honest with our children
about their bodies, like this is evolver, this is a penis,
this is a vagina, And I know that can be
(12:53):
really uncomfortable and for us as adults, we have to
sort of sit in that discomfort a little bit. Because
I wasn't raised learning those words. I don't think I
knew what evolva was to like my late twenties. You're know,
this is not a conversation that happens. But when we
use anatomically correct labels, we start creating a foundation where
(13:13):
there's no shame or stigma about a child's body. And
often I get clients to reflect on the fact that
if we can call an elbow and elbow and in
knee and knee, why would you call a volver if
any because you instantly say to your child, oh, that's
not something we even call the right name, Like, that's
not something we even talk about. And so as parents,
(13:33):
it's taking that time to sit in a bit of
the discomfort and know that actually, when we create these
safe spaces for conversation, it can change lives and it
is super powerful. So yeah, one with private parts using
the correct labels for that sense of reducing shame and stigma.
And then also there has been some research done from
(13:56):
interviewers and researchers who have met with people who have
sexually abused children, and one of the main deterrens for
them is that children knowing their anatomically correct labels tells
them that some kind of conversation is happening at home
around sexual abuse prevention, and then they don't feel that
that's a safe person obviously for them to engage with,
(14:19):
so it's also a really big deterrent in harm. And
then from my own clinical work, if children have the
correct labels, they can tell their story accurately and it
can be followed through in the legal system. Really sadly,
a lot of the time when children don't have that
language and that ability to articulate, we can support them,
(14:42):
but the legal system does not support them, which is
really really heartbreaking. So when it comes to private parts,
I'm really big on being open, being honest, talking about
them like they are just another part of our body,
because they are. And what this will do will allow
our children to feel safe to talk to us if
anything does happen and that they know, oh, actually, that's
(15:03):
just a normal part of my body that I can
talk to my parent and talk caregever about.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm so glad you brought up. I don't know how
it came up on my Instagram feed a few weeks ago,
but I immediately told my wife about it. But it
was that exact stat about the offenders and if they
hear the proper words, it's such a deterrent, which is
so powerful. But isn't it silly? I think about this
quite often, especially now having kids. But there still is
(15:28):
Isn't there that such uncomfortableness about talking about And the
only way you can do that is start with your
kids both just calling it what it is and doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
And yeah, I say, if it feels really uncomfortable, to
start with practice just saying it with yourself, like, use
that word yourself, and then maybe with another trusted adult
like a partner or a friend, like, really start weaving
it into that conversation and you can be really straight
up back, I'm trying to use these correct labels. I'm
going to start saying penis and go with that, right,
And then once you've got that sense of confidence, then
(15:56):
you can introduce it to your children and it flows
a little bit better. But yeah, it's it is different.
It can be uncomfortable. My children have said the words
many a times at many different places, and people just
look like and pure a shock that actually a child
knows their body And I secretly am inside just so proud.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, it is so important for a child to understand
and to know, and then important for a child to
be able to say no yeah confidently without being fearful
of saying no what's the best way to approach that
for your children?
Speaker 4 (16:29):
I normally say in this instant, the best way we
can get them to feel really comfortable and confident in
saying no is to give them opportunities to say no.
So a really good one here is if you are playing,
like play fighting with your children or tickling with your children,
and they say no, you stop straight away. That's it.
(16:50):
That you might be having so much fun and they
might just be, you know, ending the play in that
really fun way. But actually your child is putting in
a boundary for their body. They we are expressing that,
and it's your role as a parent to respect it.
Because when you respect it, they learn that that's the
expectation of people. When I say no, I should have
(17:10):
that no respected. So we're possible. I really encourage that.
Of course, there's the body autonomy limits that you can't say,
you know, we need to get out the door, put
your shoes on. They say no, Like, that's not when
we do it. But if we are hugging, if we
are in play, if we're touching their body in a
certain way and they say no, listen and really respect
that because you create the foundation of how they expect
(17:32):
their no to be received. And then with that as well,
I'm a really big advocate for role modeling that experience
for them. And so if my children are really in
my space and maybe it's been a really busy day
and I'm just like overstimulated and need some space, I
will be really clear with my children and I'll say no,
Mummy's body needs some space right now. And what I'm
(17:54):
doing then is I'm giving them permission to actually say
that no as well. So the more that they can
see their safe, trusted adults doing that and saying no,
the more confident they are going to feel and that
they're actually allowed to do that.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
And does that lead into then an understanding of the
safe and unsafe touch?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yes, true, definitely, yeah, I think the safe versus unsafe
touch when they're really little, I'm really mindful about keeping
all of these conversations age appropriate. So I with my
two and four year old, have never actually said this
is safe or this is unsafe. Yet that will come
in time. So instead, what I encourage them to do
(18:37):
is feel those sensations within their body. So my daughter
has super curly hair and so when I brush it,
she hates it like that's just how it is. And
so I might say to her, like, what do you
notice when mummy brushes your hair and it hurts? Like
what is that feeling? What do you feel in your body?
What do you notice with your hair? What do you
notice with heart that you feel in your heart? And
really encourage her to feel that feeling and be like, oh,
(19:00):
so it might be something that doesn't feel really safe
to you or doesn't feel comfortable to you. And then
I also do that was really important things and beautiful
things that are safe. So we might have a hug,
and I might say how does it feel when Mamma
gives you a hug? And then we might talk about like, oh,
that warms my heart or whatever it might be, it
makes me smile, and we explore what those two feelings
(19:20):
feel like. And then from there she knows. And other
times she might go to kindy and come home and
I might say, remember, darling, I'm always here to talk.
If anything makes you feel happy in your heart, you
can tell mommy. But if something hurts your heart as well,
I'm also here. So we want to encourage children to
feel the two feelings rather than talking about them at
(19:40):
such a young age.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I find that just the whole instinct side of it.
So you can teach that then obviously, like when I
was saying before we came on air, like I've always
felt like I've just had kind of a natural you know,
Like I remember walking home from school multiple times and
I crossed the road because I saw someone up ahead
that I just didn't. But I want my kids so
(20:04):
badly to have that. Yeah, but I'm just hoping that.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, it's about trusting your instinct, isn't it That nothing
may have happened walking down the street, but if you
feel it then then act.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, that's the best thing that you can do is
actually encourage your child to check in with their body
all the time, like for random stuff like you might
be bouncing on the tramp and you may say, like, oh,
what do you notice in your body? My heart's going
really fast. Oh have you thought about any other times
your heart's gone really fast? That might be telling your
body you need to slow down, or you need a wrist,
or something doesn't feel right. And so we can actually
(20:37):
start to explore the sensations within a child's body with
a lot of curiosity. You know, it could be anything.
They might be really angry, and it might be that's
a conversation. I can notice you're really angry? Can you
feel that in your body? Like do you need to stomple?
Do you need to move your arms? What do you
need to do? Because yeah, we're creating that ability to
tappen and notice that intuition, and notice what is our
(20:59):
body communicating to us in this moment? And then what
are the STIPs? How do I reach out? Who are
my people if I do not to set within my body?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, that's on many different levels than because I think
we automatically think about this unsafe touch being how does
that make me feel? But you actually need to learn
our bodies, Like you're brushing your daughters here, how does
it make you feel? Your heart's raising? How does it
make you feel? They're the conversations we should be having,
which then enable your child to know what feels right
(21:27):
and feels wrong. If something were to eventuate, they found
themselves in it in a situation I've kind of shocked
to and I had heard it before, But a lot
of abuse can happen from someone the child already knows.
What are some red flags that parents can look out
for If there's that kind of manipulation going on, or
(21:49):
something with a friend or a family member that might
actually be starting to happen.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, And I just want to acknowledge that this is
a really difficult conversation and it is really really hard
and for someone like me, this has been my whole career,
but as soon as I had children, it was just
such a shift, right, Like I felt really comfortable in
the work that I was doing, and I worked on
both sides before children, So I worked with young people
(22:15):
who had been harmed in sexual abuse, but also young
people and children who had harmed other children. And so
I just want to acknowledge, like, this is really challenging stuff,
and having the conversation and having a platform and sharing
these messages is so powerful and I'm very grateful to
be here for that. Red flags and things to look
(22:35):
out for, there are sort of a few different parts here,
and I like to kind of talk about them as
warning signs. One part of it is we want to
teach our children, which leads on from our last chat
around what the warning signs are in their body, and
so the more we can get them to tune into
their body, the more that we can talk to them
about that butterfly feeling, or we can talk to them
(22:56):
about that sort of foggy feeling that happens in their
mind or the bobbly legs that they get, because we
want them to notice the warning signs too, because there's
going to be times when we're not there or we're
not around to pick up all the other stuff as well.
So one aspect is getting children to tune in with
their body, recognize the warning signs within them, and know
(23:17):
because of all of the conversations that you've had that
you are a safe person for them to speak to
if they need to. And then in terms of what
we can be looking out for as parents, these kind
of fall into two parts emotional and behavioral changes within
your child. And I just want to preface this with
if these things are happening, it does not one hundred
percent mean your child has been sexually abused. We see
(23:38):
emotional and behavioral changes for a real range of things.
It might be bullying, friendships, struggling academically, like, there is
a lot that could cause these things. But if you
notice your child has become really angry, really aggressive behavior
that they typically weren't doing previously, maybe they're really tearful,
(23:59):
they're crying all the time. Maybe they become really withdrawn,
they want to isolate, if they are disengaging from friendships,
disengaging from activities that bring them joy, like if they
love riding their bike and they don't like riding their
bike all of a sudden, and it's quite a noticeable shift.
These are all things that we can be looking out for.
(24:19):
And parents and caregiverers know their children best, So when
you notice something that's off, there's normally a good sign
something is off because with all behavior, it is a
form of communication. So whether that's aggressive behavior or withdrawn behavior,
the child is communicating something to you. And so it's
really wonderful if we have capacity as parents and caregivers
(24:41):
to come at that with a bit of curiosity and
give space for our young people to talk to us
about that.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
How do you approach that with your child, that conversation
If you have noticed some changes like that.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Yep, so, and I notice them all the time. Because
children are children.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
It can be for a whole very range of reasons,
you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's important to kind of
then distinguish what is going on, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Yeah, So I just have one vivid memory of picking
my daughter up from KINDI and her behavior was just off,
like instantly off, and as a mom, I was like, oh,
something's happened here, and I could really feel it, and
I said, hey, darling, like I noticed something feels different
with you today. Do you want to talk to mommy
about it? She said no, And I'm really big or
not pressing in that moment, give the space. No, Okay,
(25:26):
if you need to, we can chat about it when
you're already. I'm always here to listen to you no
matter what. Later on we got home, the behavior was continuing.
We have a little emotions feeling space in our house.
We went down there and I said, Darling, you're really
really angry. I can see in your face and I
can see in your body. Do you want to tell
mom what happened today? And so then it allowed that
(25:48):
conversation to unfold as to what had happened, and then
we could work through that together so we can label
what we see within our child. I can notice this
in your body. For some children, this is really triggering,
so take it as you will, but it might be
I noticed that you're really upset at the moment. I
can see you have tears at the moment. Is there
anything that I can do to support you right now?
(26:09):
Is it anything that you would like to share with
me right now? I'm always here to listen to you. Yeah,
those types of conversations.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's just so powerful. Isn't you want to be that
parent that your child talks to? But this is all
starting from what you've just spoken about for the last
twenty minutes. Is all sets up that trust them and
the love and that they will then come to you
when something is hopefully never never happening.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
But not necessarily something you think, like, I didn't grow
up with these conversations at home, so it's something like
we talked about it. It can be uncomfortable, but can
be awkward, and it doesn't need to be. It needs
to be quite matter of fact and a very simple
way in discussing it. But when you don't grow up
with it, then it's a new learning as parents as
(26:56):
well to sort of work through this, to be able
to communicate that way with your children.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Tricky, Yeah, it is, And I think that's a huge
part of it. That our brain likes things that are familiar, right,
and that's what it craves in it's every day. And
so when we go to teach our children something that
we were never taught, it is so unfamiliar and so uncertain,
and our brain instantly wants to be like, well, this
doesn't feel safe, and so yeah, I also didn't grow
(27:21):
up with these conversations, and so it has It's been
such a journey to find what it is within me
that holds back the conversation sometimes. And is it that
I'm not wanting to offend somebody by saying, oh no,
my child won't hug you, or we can't do a playdate.
Yet It is definitely a journey.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Playdates is the next thing, isn't it. And then when
they get a bit older, sleepovers and all those kind
of things that you have to sort of please actually
don't never grow up. Just yeah, but what sort of
conversation do you have around play dates and then sleepovers
and those types of things.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I know I'm the same. I'm just hopeful that my
children stay little forever and that I never have to
eventually get there. But also in that, I know that
I've given them the skills and the tools the best
I possibly can to be able to keep themselves safe.
So there's a part of me that's okay with it.
So when it comes to playdates and sleepovers, I know
(28:25):
there's a bit of chat online or quite a bit
around like no sleepovers, no playdates. I don't believe in that.
I think that we want to grow children that are
healthy and that independent and they can be away from
us in a really safe way. So although I support them,
I have very strong rules around them. So one of
(28:46):
the things that I would say, number one, does your
child have body safety education? Do they know about consent?
Do they know about body autonomy? Do they know about boundaries?
Do they know how to advocate and speak up for themselves?
Because unless they can do that, then it's probably not
a safe choice. And then from there, the second part
is what is the relationship with me and the other
(29:08):
family or the host family. What is that relationship like?
And I think a good test of that relationship is
whether or not you can ask the big questions, Because
if you can't ask the big questions, it's probably a
good sign that that friendship or relationship just needs to
build a little bit more. And so when I say
big questions, I'm meeting questions around supervision. So who's watching
(29:31):
the children? And where are they allowed to play? Does
the door always have to be open? Are they allowed
to play alone? What does supervision look like? Another big
one is what adults are in the home, because you
might have a really good relationship with the parents, but
maybe an older sibling is in the home and they're
having a group of friends over and you don't know
(29:52):
any of those groups of friends, so asking who will
be there. Screens is another really big one. What is
the family's rules or around screen time, because we know
the research around children being exposed to pornography is completely
accidental most of the time, and so what is happening
with screens, what is locked? Where can they be on them?
(30:12):
Questions around privacy like can my child get changed? Can
they go the toilet? All of those types of things.
So I actually on my Instagram have a really good
free checklist about questions to ask before playdates and sleepovers,
and in there there's also different ways that you can
continue to build that relationship without leaving your child there.
(30:33):
So that can be really helpful as well to know
exactly questions to ask, as well as how to say
no gently to other host families without offending people, because
I think that often when we teach our children this
way of living and knowing their body. Actually, the difficulty
is how we communicate that with those other people in
(30:54):
our community and world of our children.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah, we need to be able to ask those questions.
And if another parent your ask feels uncomfortable about it,
then well so be it really ultimately, because it's about
our children's safety.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what I always say, Like, can
we just put the child at the center and take
a really deep breath and then ask the questions And
it doesn't have to be confrontational. It might be something like, oh,
in our home, we're really big on children playing in
open spaces like the lounge room or outside. What are
the rules in your house? That's all it is. And
if they say, oh, yeah, we can do that, or
(31:30):
oh no, our children we let them play alone, you
might then allow that conversation to unfold. But typically when
we lead the conversation with what our rules and boundaries are,
families sort of pick that up and go, okay, we
can also do this way at our home.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, And hopefully these conversations become the norm in everyone's households,
and so asking those questions a very normal part of
the development of our children and with playdates and sleepovers
and that sort of thing. You mentioned screens and online
and the boundaries. That's a whole other thing, isn't it.
(32:05):
But when do you start having those discussions with your
children with regards to those boundaries and the body safety online.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
I think when it comes to screens, I'm really mindful
of our role as parents and caregivers is how do
we ensure that any access that they do have is safe?
And so there's lots of parental locks and programs and
things that can be used now as well as monitoring.
You know, you can see what children are accessing and
what they're not accessing. Really big on children only having
(32:37):
access to devices in spaces where their parents and caregivers
are as well, because that way you can just monitor
and if they see something, you are right there to
support them through that. Unfortunately, exposure to an appropriate content
online can have such a long term effect. I have
clients that I've supported for a long time now that
(32:58):
are heavily traumatized by what they have seen completely accidentally,
and so we just have to be super mindful with
as parents around the locks that we have and then
where our children are accessing it and again, hopefully through
all of this conversation and keeping body safety and body
autonomy really natural and you're parenting, if your child was
(33:19):
to come across something, they might hopefully have that conversation
with you and say, actually, Mum, I've noticed something. Can
we talk about it? Something along those lines, You can
preface it as a child gets older and say, hey,
if anything comes on your screen that makes you feel uncomfortable,
you notice any of those feelings inside your body, I'm
always here to talk to you. You'll never be in trouble,
(33:41):
but I'm here if you need me. So we can
start those conversations as a child gets older, but probably
priesce for we would just need to be monitoring at
that point.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
What do you say to people who would say this
is all just being like a loss of innocence and
them needing to grow up before they need to open
kind of what's your.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Answer to that?
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I think with that we have to be mindful that
everything is age appropriate. There's you know, when we teach
our children how to cross the road, we might say
you need to hold my hand, you need to look
both ways, you need to listen for a car. We
don't say to the child. If you do not do that,
a car will hit you, it will squish you, you
will die, you know, Like we don't do that right.
(34:22):
And it's the same when it comes to talking to
a child about their body, like, oh, you need to
ask somebody before you hug them. That's not because of
what could happen as they get older. So I think
when people think children are losing their innocence, I have
been on the other side of children who have actually
lost their innocence, and so I just say, become curious
(34:43):
with this and become curious with that stance of oh,
I need to protect their innocence because education is empowering.
It doesn't take away from that. It allows them to
remain innocent. It's when we don't give them the education
that they lose that because I see so I can
appreciate it and I can understand it. But knowledge is power,
(35:05):
and we can do it in an age appropriate way
where we don't have to explain the dangers and terrible
things that could happen. My children have no idea and
I hope that's for a very very, very very long
time about what I do for work or my four
year old thinks that I talk to children to make
them feel happy, which is kind of similar to you guys.
You know, it's like she was also very excited that
(35:26):
I was. She couldn't kind of wrap her brain around it.
You know, we can do it in a way to
protect them.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I love that you said, I wrote it down, but
it kind of this is like swimming lessons that you
don't make them scared of swimming. It gives them so
much more confidence. And it's the same with It's the
same with all this body chat. It actually doesn't make
them scared of anything. It just gives them that confidence
of knowing themselves.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, if your child does disclose something to you, or
that something or someone made them feel uncomfortable as a parent,
what's the best way for us to react to that
and to help them through that.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Firstly, I'd say take a really deep breath, because when
a child tells you or discloses something, because it is
very confronting and it's obviously a lot of high emotions
at that point. So I would say take a deep breath.
And then the next thing is you believe them no
matter what, because what a child needs in that moment
is just to be heard and just to be seen
(36:24):
in what they are experiencing and then go from there.
So the best question that I can say is, if
a child comes to you, we want to keep it
super open ended. We don't want to lead the conversation anywhere,
and so you can say something like can you tell
me what happened next? And then what happened after that?
Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
(36:45):
And so it's very open and we just want to
provide that space to allow that conversation to flow. We
want to be really mindful of questions of oh, and
did they do this? And then did this happen next?
It's really like allow that to be and then once
that's happened, and there's a lot of praise, there's a
lot of connection. I'm so so proud of you for
telling me. I'm so grateful that you felt safe to
(37:07):
share this with me. This is with mummy now, or
with daddy or with your caregiver. We're here to support you.
You don't have to hold this on your own. I
am here lots of praise and reassurance, and then from
there it's connecting and with local police, local child protection services. Yeah,
and that will lead a whole different process, and that's
sort of different wherever you live.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
This is such an important conversation and it should be
a conversation that we are having within our families, and
like you saying, from a very very young age, to
help our children understand, to give them that instinct and
that understanding of how they feel in their own bodies.
And I know a lot of us didn't grow up
with this, and you know, I don't know if I'm
(37:50):
saying this the right way. Is a shame, It is
a terrible shame that we have to have these conversations,
but it is such an important conversation to have. And
thank you for the work that you were doing. And
we will give your Instagram handle so people can come
and find you and look up in more detail if
they want more information. But we are very very grateful.
I was very nervous about this chat and feeling uncomfortable,
(38:12):
but you don't feel that way anymore. It's that in
such a clear way, in a way that I know
all parents can think of ways that they can then
communicate this with their children and their families. But so
thank you Victoria for coming on. We will talk.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Oh, thank you so much for having me, And that's
a really big part of what I do is actually
making this conversation so accessible that it doesn't have to
be scary, it doesn't have to be difficult, that it
can just be a really normal part of your parenting.
So I'm so grateful to be here and have a
platform to share something that is very dear to me
(38:47):
and the work that I do. So thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Well. Lucky Victoria put things very simply, very clear, and
like I said, I was feeling not sure how to
have this conversation because it's not something that I've ever
grown up with or felt that comfortable about. But there's
no reason why we shouldn't feel comfortable about talking with
(39:18):
our children in the context she put it in, in
the way she spoke about it, and about our body
parts of it. A's just a matter of fact. It's
who we are, it's what we are, and to give
our children understanding and hope that they then have the
ability to communicate. But because of the way we've communicated
with them, because we've asked questions of our children, how
does that make you feel? And asking them is it
(39:39):
okay if I draw you now? Or do you want
to draw? Yourself, those questions and those comments. You wouldn't
even think that that's informing a child that they have
a choice and they're able to say yes or no.
But that's exactly what it does.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, And like she said at the start, that's the
whole hope of what she does talk about that it
kind of makes you I feel quite positively up right
now after that conversation, because it's it's just little things
you can start practicing today that make all the difference.
Is so powerful and can be a really okay thing
to talk about.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah, she was awesome and what she said about you know,
you asked the question about a loss of innocence. The
end result, the devastating thing about this is the real
loss of innocence that a child could have. And so
the more we can do now with our children, did
these conversations we can have, then hopefully our children will
(40:32):
never end up in an awful situation like that.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
No, and always developmentally appropriate.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
As well, which is that's right?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Which is Yeah, this is so random, but it brought
up a memory of when we're in the UK. The
first time we went walking to a cafe or something
and Mum, it was just such a perfect little moment
and we laughed. But Mum said, I think the little
girl went to walk on the road and she said,
don't walk on the road, you'll get squashed like strawberry jam.
And that's not that's appropriate to the terms of using
(41:01):
a spread. But I'm just so random. That's what came
to my vibe. But Victoria, thank you so much. That
was so wonderful. I'm really hoping this reaches a lot
of people because it was really, really great. And if
today's chat has brought up some questions or made you
realize that it's time to start having these conversations at home,
we cannot recommend enough The Safe Kids Project.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yeah, Victoria has created simple, practical tools that make it
easy to teach your children about body autonomy, consent, and
safety without fear or overwhelm.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
You can learn more at the safekidsproject dot com or
follow Victoria on Instagram at the Safe Kids Project. We'll
put all the links in the show.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Notes, and if you are enjoying the show, please take
a moment to rate and review the show. It really
helps other parents find us, and for this particular chat,
we'd love as many parents to find this one as possible.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yes, thank you for listening to Wiggle Talk. It is
a podcast for parents.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah, thanks so much. On te
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