In this episode, Caroline is joined by Travis Lovett, Deputy Chair and Commissioner of the Yoorrook Justice Commission. A proud Kerrupmara Gunditjmara Traditional Owner, Travis plays a key role in the first formal truth-telling process into historical and ongoing injustices experienced by First Peoples in Victoria, the Yoorrook Justice Commission.
The Commission, established by an agreement between the First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria and the Victorian Government, operates independently of both. It delivered an interim report in June 2022, and a critical issues report in August 2023, and will present a final report in 2025. The Commission is led by five Commissioners, with three being Aboriginal. They bring extensive knowledge and experience in areas such as First Peoples’ knowledge, systemic disadvantage, land rights, history, law, trauma, and healing.
In this episode, Travis shares his personal story, discusses what it's like being part of a big family and mob, and talks about his many passions, including being a dad, practising his Culture, working with Community, and preserving Aboriginal languages.
Travis and Caroline discuss some of the most significant evidence of past injustices which have come forward. Commissioner Lovett also walks listeners through the truth-telling process, providing valuable insights into the important hearings taking place and the steps ahead.
To follow the great work the Yoorrok Justice Commission are doing, visit their website https://yoorrookjusticecommission.org.au/ To follow Travis’s journey then please visit his instagram page HERE.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show!
Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here!
If this episode has brought up anything for you contact 13YARN on 13 92 76. Or, visit the following pages for more useful contacts and support Where can I get help | R U OK?
We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast was brought to you by On Track Studio.
For advertising opportunities please email hello@ontrackstudio.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Podcast Unite our Voices.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Welcome to Yannier, the podcast that showcases First Nations stories
and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's history
(00:28):
to work towards a better future. I'm your host, proud
barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the Rundery people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
(00:53):
and always will be unseated Aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.
Hey you mob, We just want to say a huge,
heartfelt thank you for continuing to join us here at
Yarning Up. You know, each and every fortnight we have
the incredible privilege of sitting down and hearing from black
(01:18):
fellows right across so called Australia. You know, we have beautiful, candid, heartfelt,
juicy yarns. We get to learn about theirs and their
family stories. And to each and every guest who has
joined us, we say thank you, thank you so much.
(01:42):
If you're vibing the show and you want to help
us continue to elevate Black people and black stories our medicine.
Then please rate and review, you know, tell your friends,
tell your arnies, tell your uncles, and help us continue
to yes, spread spread the joy and the love and
(02:06):
these incredible Black people and Black stories. We're putting in
a content warning for today's episode, You Mob. This episode
is an important one. I had the privilege of sitting
down with Commissioner Travis Lovett at the Yarook Justice Commission,
(02:26):
which is the first formal truth telling process which is
happening into the historical and ongoing injustices experienced by First
Nations people. It's happening here in Victoria, and I just
want you to consider, you know, how resource your feeling
(02:46):
when you're listening to today's episode. It discusses sensitive topics
that some people might find distressing, So, you know, don't
be ashamed and asking for help. You Mob, one three
yarn can be contacted our friends one three Yan. I
have used them myself before. Their number is one three nine,
(03:10):
two seven six and they're available twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
All love you, Mob, Thanks for being here. I'm just
so grateful to have here.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Up.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Mara Gundi Jamara Traditional owner Travis Love it sitting down
with me today, So welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Welcome to Yanni.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Out deadlely and thanks for the opportunity to be on
Yan and up. It's really great. And I've been able
to listen into some of the other mob that you've
had on the show as well, so you know, it's
also a privilege for me to be able to come
on here and be in the presence of black excellence
as well. Two way here, we.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Really like to start to get to know a bit
more about you before we sort of start talking about
this process.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So can you tell us a little bit about you
and your mob.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Well as a customer people as well. And I know
you've already done this, but I'll do it my way
or old people's old people's way here, which is in language.
So lula of my luck, good luck Lyny Travis Love,
Kenamara Jamara meeting Lindyaan Cook on Canada, Jubin meeting what
and ma meeting called in meeting Nia kabanju Wang. Don't
book a bit of beaudity meeting that geng meeting nag
(04:22):
me and more so, just acknowledged country and pay my
respects to the Injuri people of the call and nation.
I also pay my respects to Bundle the Spirit Creator
and also Wa the Crow. It's really important that we
also bring war in because that's the laws, customs and traditions,
and we've got to adhere to those, particularly as visitors
on their country. And I said, as well, as you
(04:43):
introduced me as a proud good and Jamara and Karatmarra
man so originally as what now known as Lake Conda
is where my people stem from as well. So I'm
really proud of my good Jamara connections and in particular
being a proud karat Mara good Jamara Feller. But yeah,
grew up in Fitzroy to start with. So I have
the luxury of being one of twenty eight kids and
(05:04):
I'll say that again twenty eight, So come from a
massive family and I'm really proud of that, and really
proud of all my brothers and sisters and their contributions
to our existence and carrying on the family name as well.
But yeah, grew up in Fitzroy to start within the
high rise flats. So it's quite interesting that we're inquiring
in the housing, but I grew up in housing Commission
(05:24):
housing as many of the mob did then, particularly being
relocated off missions and so forth, and moved away from country,
and then we moved out to Preston. I grew up
at a little bit later when I was about six
or seven, moved out to Preston there and grew up
out that way. So that was always really fond memories
about being around family, but also community as well as
every other mob. I think, you know, you grow up
(05:44):
and there's always thousands of people around your house and
so forth as well. So good times, good last but
also challenging times around the struggles too for our people
as well and the resistance, but also the fight the
continual fight for advocacy around land rights and water rights
and our people's human rights to be respected as well. Worked,
I guess in so many of the Cury ollg so
(06:04):
I've worked that's coming through before sort of moving into
the Caury Courts where I was the manager of Career Courts,
but started off as a career court officer there. So
just working in I guess, in and out of community,
but also in government to really learn the ways of
government and how government work and operate as well. And
also you know, I guess in more sort of contemporary
times as well. She's talking like I'm a real old fellow,
(06:25):
I'm only forty one, but also having you know, beauty
about having two children, being married to my wife and nada,
but also two beautiful children, my daughter Hunter who's ten,
real strong care of Margot tomorrow woman coming through and
she let everyone know that too, which is really deadly.
And also my son who's a duke love At another
real warrior coming through as well, you know, really proud
(06:46):
of them, and also the work that they enable me
to do. And I think family is really important. We
tend to forget the ones that really back us in
and enable us. You know a lot of people say
Jiju everywhere, and yeah, I am everywhere. But it's also
having the support of family and children who make their
sacrifices to enable me to be able to be across
the state, yarn and talk in the mob, you know,
whether it be having cups of teas or whether it
(07:08):
be information sessions or around tables all the hearings that
I get a lot of public profile as well, so
you know, it's really important that we always shout out
family as well.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh how beautiful, I mean it's so lovely to hear
firstly just you to kick off this gun in language,
and how special that is.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's not surprising, you know, you have.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Worked so extensively in supporting the rights of mobs across
cultural heritage in your working governments.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But I guess also hearing your family life and where.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
You come from, and how all of these cumulative and
lived and family and cultural and community experiences sort of
led to you and shaped you to playing this role.
I too, was also a kid of the Commission Housing.
I also some time impresston at Stoke Street there, so
I know that feeling of being surrounded by mob, but
(07:57):
then also here seeing the struggle and I guess holding
those multiple troops that we all hold as blackfellows.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah, and also I think it's important, you know, another
reason why I speak in languages also to send messages
to our old people who are no longer with us
upstairs there. You know, I'm just saying, hey, we got you,
we got you just down here, and yes there's a
lot of traumatic things still happening to our people, but
we've got user of sending your messages that you know,
you continue fight, struggle, resistance and you'll tend to know that.
I won't use the word resilience. I stop saying that
(08:25):
I've had a few years back, because I feel that
resilience for our people, we just get lumped in this
resilient basket where things can just keep happening to us.
So I don't use that word anymore. I use resistance
as well, because I think it's really important. But yeah,
sending their messages but also sending messages to community and
our people as well. You know, it's really hard work
to reclaim your language, and it's important that you know,
we share that and that people can engage with it.
(08:47):
We're all born with it. We're all born with it inside.
At the right time, we just release it, and we've
got to do a bit of work to release it.
But still we're all born with it. And I think
that's really important as well, and important that my children
speak in language, which they do at home, but also
at school as well. You know, when you see me
talking in Langue, which my children are also doing it
in school every day, which is absolutely fantastic and powerful
(09:08):
for them. And also, you know, growing up away from country,
it also helps further connect them to country. Their ancestors
support part of identity.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So right, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Want to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
You know, your rook is the Wamba Wamber word for truth,
and it's the first of its kind formal truth talent,
and it was established I guess during the push for
Treaty during the First People's Assembly. At the time, I
was working at a Victorian Treaty Advancement Commission, and we
really recognize that he had justice, truth and healing. They
really have to go hand in hand, and so I'd
(09:41):
really love to just sort of start there for people
who aren't plugged in and aren't familiar with the work
or the mandate I guess of what your rook is
being set out to do.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm wondering if you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Could tell us about the role and what the Commission's
key objectives are through this truth telling process.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
You know, and it's really important as we've done, you know,
acknowledging yourself the work you did, but also Annie Jill
as well as our first Treaty Advancing Commissioner as well,
and I know you did a power of work to
support her. So recognizing your contributions to our people's continued
achievements there as well. We are a formal truth telling Commission,
and there's been a few of these set up around
the world. But the point of difference for us is
(10:21):
we actually have Royal Commission powers. And I think that's
really important point is that when Yuruk was first set up,
community were very strongly kind of wording that didn't really
want a Royal Commission. We'd had plenty of them and
they hadn't really done much for our people. So it
was decided that we would have a truth taling Commission
ultimately with Royal Commission powers. And the Royal Commission powers
really give you power and authority to compel witnesses or
(10:44):
to compel evidence should it be required from government, and
that's a really important point of difference. But we are
a truth telling Commission going around the state and investigating
the ongoing systemic injustices since seventeen eighty eight Owen colonization
really started and it has impacted our people. Our job
is to also look at and establish the official public
(11:05):
record of Victoria, and it's really important for people listening
in whether they're mob or whether they're not. But we
are not documenting aboriginal truths here. We are documenting the
true history of Victoria. Our people have been saying this
for two hundred plus years about the ongoing impacts and
our fight struggle and resistance around government policy and what
they've done and what they continue to do.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
This is not a.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Historical matter that we're investigating. We investigating contemporary issues, which
is pretty much up until today. So that's really important
in the game to establish an official public record to
document the true history of what has happened to our
people since colonization. Our mob player significant part in documenting
their truths and coming forward and we encourage always people
to come forward and share their lived experience and their
(11:50):
truths with us as the truth telling process. There's many
different sort of facts to that around putting it on
the public record what's happened. But also you mentioned a
keyword earlier around on the pathway to healing, and it
adds to healing around them being able to come and
share their story knowing as well that our people are listening. Also,
four out of the five commissioners who sit on this
(12:10):
commissioner blackfellows or as mob. That's really important as well.
And we do have a former Federal Court judge also
who is a commissioner as well. But having mob leading
this process and shaping this process as well, but really
trying to not retraumatize people and that's what we work
really hard to do. We also have social emotional wellbeing
experts who work within our commission, but also counsel is
(12:33):
available for people who also come and share their truths,
alongside legal assistance to help them with any kind of
legal matters aligned to them coming in submitting their lived
experience and their truths as well. But we're also are
encouraging non Aboriginal people to come forward and share their
truths as well. And I'm not too sure a few viewers,
but I'd like to direct them to our website to
check out Susannah Henty evidence that was incredibly powerful for
(12:58):
her to come forward and share her family story around
their role in colination and the impacts that her family
has had on the Good Jamara people in particular around
you know in Portland all country really not just in Portland,
but you know that's kind of you know, the main
feature of land based where we name these things and
from a colonial port of view, but Kilgar Country close
(13:19):
to that being Kilgar a country if we're talking our
mobs terms as well, is you know the massacre that
happened there as well, which is, you know, absolutely terrible,
and our people have been saying this for two hundred years,
and it was just, you know, for the first time
a non average person had come forward and shared at
our commission, shared the history of what her family had
done to our people.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I mean, will be popping all of your website and
videos in our show notes, but I must say that
hearing from a direct descendant of a settler colonizer in
that manner was really compelling.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
In sins of cornialism have not been his, they have
not been redeemed. Marino Downs should be returned. I don't
want to see a town called Handy. I don't want
to see handy monuments. I was told by my high
school teacher that we were pioneers. This is the rhetoric
(14:14):
that is used. There have been five generations of Handy
family members who have not said anything, and I don't
want to be part of the sixth generation who doesn't
see anything.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
The historical exclusion from basic health care continues to haunt
Aboriginal communities, leaving jury marks on our health outcomes. Intergenerational
wealth disparities further exacerbate the divide.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
How much of the eighty three billion dollar revenue has
been distributed directly to First nations and the answer to
that question, The answer is zero. Directly water corporations collect
revenue and they don't report against that though nor are
they required to, so the entwer is zero.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Gippsland Anglicans lament that our colonial history includes atrocities committed
against First peoples, and that some of those involved in
these henous but no longer unspeakable acts are likely to
have identified with the Church of England. The Anglican Church
(15:34):
in Gippsland has been complicit in and has benefited from,
the dispossession and other harms caused by Victoria's colonization, predicated
in part on the theologically repugnant and now repudiated doctrine
of discovery, and it's outworking in the morally bankrupt ideology
(16:00):
of Terrannalius.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
I was born in nineteen sixty four, which meant that
I was assured of a right to vote in adulthood,
unlike Aboriginal adults, and that my life expectancy would be
far greater than that of Aboriginal children of the same age,
and that my pathway to an education was well lit
and clear because I had good, secure housing and family connections,
(16:23):
unlike that of many Aboriginal children of similar age.
Speaker 8 (16:27):
Yeah, so it's it's interesting to hear as becoming a
care because it was never like that. It was kind
of just like like looking after family, you know.
Speaker 9 (16:44):
But I was yeah, twenty one at the time where yeah,
Tim Johnny needed me and needed a care in that
chapter of her journey, and she was around thirteen years
(17:05):
old with beautiful but challenging because of there was like
these two contradicting ways of caring for our young ones,
and I think like having that the pressure at times
from the child protection system to be a quote definition
(17:28):
of a kinship care versus me just naturally caring for
her as her older cousin.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
For anyone who is listening, you know, we have a
lot of overseas listeners. And as Commissioner love It has said,
was established in twenty twenty one and the cultural holistic
sort of healing element of this is really special for
anyone who has had the privilege of sitting in that space.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Whilst it has the mandate of a.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Royal commission, it is really grounded in Aboriginal petty godgy
and knowledge and wisdom and truths.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
As well in the space and surrounding it, to allow.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
People to participate and feel comfortable in doing so. And
so with that in mind, you know, the objectives is,
as you say, to establish a public record for first
people's experiences, but also documenting an official document of the
truth here in Victoria. According to Anta, truth taling processes
(18:30):
have been used globally as transitional justice mechanisms in post
conflict and colonized countries. Overall, a truth telling processor's aim
is to essentially reconcile the relationship between survivors of state
sponsored violence, the state and the general public and to
(18:56):
facilitate a shared understanding that might promote healing. And this
can hold accountable those who carried out the violence or
oppression and challenge ongoing harmful practices. You know, there are
many examples internationally with countries like South Africa and Canada
and now more recently here in so called Australia. Something
(19:21):
I wanted to ask around that is, you know, in
Australia we have this really comfortable amnesia about ourselves. There's
such a dissonance between what's happened in the last two
hundred and thirty six years. It's almost like this dystopia
that people have acquired land and power and resources and privilege,
(19:41):
both financial means, social cachet, just.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
In a vacuum.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
And so you know, in Australia we have participated since
the early nineties in a myriad of royal commissions from
the Royal Death and Custody bring them Home. We've had
a failed referendum here. What's different about this process and
what makes us think that Australia is finally ready to
I guess listen and accept that there are other truths
(20:07):
here that we existed long before modern governments.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, look, it's a really great question. I've been reflecting
on this and pretty deeply, particularly since the referendum, and
I mean even just hearing a lot of the evidence
that we hear, you know, and you said earlier about
you know this. Also part of the mandate is to
develop a shared understanding as we document the true history,
and a lot of people don't know of the role
that massacres happened. We had our premier come in Victoria
(20:34):
a couple of weeks ago and shared with us that
she'd grown up on jajo around country pretty much most
of her life and didn't know that not far from
where she lived there was massacre sites. I think that,
you know, really just trying to continually educate people, and
I know that's a lot of heavy lifting that our
people have done for two hundred years. We've been saying
this stuff for a long period of time, so making
(20:55):
sure that we, you know, really are sharing the truths,
but also making sure that public are aware of what's happened.
Then the Aboriginal Protection Bill was established, and a lot
of people don't know that. So the Protection Board was
established to protect us. So called protect us because we
need to protecting from people who were massacring us. And
then we will round it up onto churches and missions
(21:16):
and further managed even further again, so this continual impounding
of everyone else being able to generate wealth around us
and be able to live and work and go about
their everyday lives. Where we had to seek approval. We've
had evidence before us where aunties have written to the
minission manager to say that they've saved up enough money
to buy property, to write to the mission manager to say, hey,
(21:36):
will you allow us to leave the mission to be
able to purchase the property. We've been made aware that
this property is to say we have the funds, we
don't need any extra support apart from you, to say
that you release us from the mission. It absolutely breaks
your heart to hear this. And this is not, you know,
two hundred years ago. This is in the last fifty years.
(21:57):
You know, sixty seven people didn't realize that we didn't
have any voting rights as a people. But what does
give me confidence is we do have the First People's
Assembly of Victoria. And I've got to be really careful
when I articulate this, because our people have been advocating
really hard for the Bringing Them Home and Report recommendations
and also the Royal Commission into Abigal dis and Custody recommendations.
(22:17):
So what I'm about to say is definitely not to
take away from the sheer fight, advocacy and resistance that
our people and our organizations, our echoes are who have
worked really hard to continue to maintain a strong voice
to government about our expectations as a people and them
adhering to those expectations. But I feel more confident that
we have a First People's Assembly of Victoria, and also
(22:37):
part of our mandate is to provide recommendations that go
to the negotiations of treaty. So we make recommendations to
the First People's Assembly and the Victorian government and hopefully
they will pick these recommendations up and negotiate them through
treaty as well. So what the point of difference here
is we have a body that we've elected as mob
for the first time that we've elected our people to
(22:59):
represent us in those negotiations, and they will keep the
pressure on government through the those negotiations that are yet
to commence. So our recommendations that we put back to
government and the Assembly can be implemented as well, and
where they haven't been I guess been able to negotiate
those through, we still have a body and a number
of people that we have elected to continue to advocate
(23:20):
for those recommendations to be implanted alongside to complement to
not take over, but to complement our Aboriginal community controlled
sector as well. So I think that that's something that
you know, we can't really diminish because our people have
fought really hard for those processes and we need to
mobilize and capitalize on these processes that are available to
(23:41):
us as well. So that's probably a point of difference. Again,
just to reiterate, I don't want to take away from
the years and years of struggle and fight, and we've
lost and elders, and we're continually losing elders. We lost
one even just last week. So just you know, we've
got to keep that in our minds and keep that
in our hearts around Hey, we got work to do.
But also we're optimistic. Our people won't give up. We
(24:03):
ain't go and nowhere, no matter what they've done to us.
Our people are optimistic, We are passionate, We are committed
to see this through, and we will make sure that
our children and their children and six generations children will
be able to start to inherit the wealth that they
rightfully so deserve.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Really really appreciate you sort of.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Guiding us to that journey and reminding us sometimes of that.
I think sometimes he as black fellows in a really
violent colony, it can be quite defeating at times. And
I think we've all been a little bit of a
repair period right now, particularly heightened by what's happening around
global movement and liberation of indigenous people against settler colonialism
(24:46):
more broadly, And I think you're writing just reminding us
that so many of our people have fought so hard
in these reforms, and you know, not to mention the
thousands upon thousands of black fellows who have generously and
passionately shared their lived and families lived experiences for the
betterment of this change. And we really can't lose sight
(25:08):
of this really important opportunity. So thanks for that beautiful reminder.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
And I think as well, it's a really important point
that you also put out there as well, is that
everyone's truth is important, everyone's contribution is important, you know,
and I think that that's something that you know, I
draw up on all the time. You know, it's not
only a draw inspiration from my family, but just you know,
meeting with mob who come in and who share their truths.
You know, it's inspiring, but it's also you know, it
(25:34):
drives you to want to see change and to expect
to see change, not just one we have expectations as
a people, which is also why we want to continue
the fight to fight and the referendum hurt. Don't get
me wrong, I'm not trying to blow over and diminish
that key part that really hurt. You know, Australia really
told us as a people, you know, where we belong
and where we sit. Again, not the first time they've
(25:55):
done that, but again, so you know, we're dusting ourselves off,
and we have dusted ourselves on, and we will show
our children what we do best to which is advocate
and activate our rights.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It really did hurt, and many of us are still
definitely grappling with where to next. And I know myself,
I've been very much just diverting my interest into this
process while still supporting community and our averageal organizations. But
you know, I think there's just there's a real opportunity
here for us to, as you say, even just to
hear stories and gather this information and to have it
(26:31):
for the first time archive, but you know, to really
challenge the status quo about what existed and what continues
to exist here.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And also as well, I think one of the things
that I'd like to highlight as well is that through
the recent Land Injustice hearings, you know, we highlighted the
billions and billions of dollars and how wealthy the state
of Victoria is and how people have seen hardly a
cent of that. In twenty one, twenty two financial year,
it was over eight billion dollars in revenue generated from
(27:01):
water alone. You know, since eighteen fifty one, two hundred
and eighty six billion dollars has been extracted from the
land from gold, and the mob have seen zero I'll
repeat that, zero dollars from that wealth that's being created.
(27:22):
You know. I mean, I can keep going on about
statistics and stuff, you know, but at the end of
the day, there was billions of dollars and there was
also you know, forestry and grazing licenses and things where
our people have been shut out of the system. But
also when we'd asked the minister about why our people
have been shut out of the system or didn't receive
(27:44):
the benefits from a cultural rights point of view, and
the minister said, and it's hard for these ministers too
to come forward and be able to say some of
the stuff that the decisions that were not even their
decision at that point in time. But to reiterate, the
minister set Aboriginal people, traditional owners did not meet the
threshold because the threshold was set, so they could not
(28:04):
meet the threshold. That's their words, not our people's words.
So this is the importance of truth telling, truth sharing
and we encourage you know, people to come forward, but
also we want to encourage all people to listen in
our people particularly but also non Aboriginal people, whether in
Australia or across the world. You know, we are questioning
you know, the people like the Premier and the Deputy
(28:25):
Premier and all ministers responsible for their portfolios that oversee
policies against our people, which is every minister who is
in government at that particular point in time. There's so
much wealth. We live in a wealthy state and our people,
you know, through no fault of their own, have fought
really hard for native title, traditional owner settlement agreement, the
(28:47):
registered Abriiginal party status. But also you know, our echos,
our organizations, you know, they have continually told us that
they are so under resourced that they are expected to
provide holistic services to help you know, people and families,
but they're only funded for one kind of micro point
and then they're also overburdened. We heard for one traditional
(29:08):
owner group where they had fifty one contracts with the
same department funding contracts with the same department. How can
they not you know, in twenty twenty four be streamlining
these funding agreements, so it reduces the reporting burden. And
some of these organizations have fifteen to twenty people, you know,
I mean, how's how's fifteen to twenty people are going
(29:28):
to be able to keep up with fifty contracts. So anyway,
just these things are really important. But this is this
is what our people are grappling with every day, and
the misconception of that our people don't do right or
can't do right. I mean, you know, with what our
people have had to endure and continually enduring, it's you know,
just incredibly inspiring for us to be able to keep
the momentum up as well.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Will be backhumb right after this short break.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
At the moment where we are in this time.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
You know, I understand that to date there's been five
key areas the Commission. I've been really particularly interested in
the tile protection system. The criminal justice system went first,
that resulted in an interim report, and then there's been
Elders truths work on health and land water skies in justices.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You mentioned before about a couple of people.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
So the Premier, just Into Allen was the first premier
to take the YURUK Commission to take up I guess
providing evidence Katherine Henty, You know, on a personal level,
have there been people's testimonies in the formal hearing process
and through all the other mechanisms, so as I understand,
people are providing evidence through written submissions, through yarning circles,
(30:51):
through round tables, and through the formal hearing process. You know,
on a personal note, are there any particular pieces of evidence,
like you've just mentioned that you really have stayed with
you and have had an impact on you.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, there's plenty. I mean, I was fortunate enough to
witness a group of mob who shared their truths through dance,
didn't need to speak, but just share their truth through dance.
And that's just resistance of being able to practice culture.
And I think it just brings me back to and
just reminding people that we were forbidden, forbidden to speak language,
to practice culture, and your rations, irrations would be cut
(31:30):
if you were court. And I really like to overstate
the point because rations mean very little to start with,
and then if you are further on, rations from being
able to practice your culture or your court just highlights
the inhumane circumstances that our people have had to live
through for generations, you know, being able to court to
be able to do that so come forward and sharing
(31:51):
their truths through dance and being able to practice language
as well. We've had some fluent language speakers come forward
as well. We'll work really hard to reclaim the language,
but a lot of it is personal. You can't learn
this in schools and so forth. Susannah Henty's evidence as well,
which you know that was unique in the sense because
not only was the first time it happened, but also
was a proud gun Najamara man whose ancestors were impacted
(32:14):
by her ancestors. And continually to the day, you know,
the continued show of and display of the monument dedicated
to the Anti family throughout my ancestors the country. It's
a continual and a visual reminder to today about the
lack of recognition of our people as well, even though
we fought really hard for UNISESCO World Heritage listing, which
(32:35):
the mob really got and yes there was support from
government and some key stakeholders there, but that's on the
back of our people and our ancestors vision and we
can't lose sight of that. Because our ancestors had a
vision around sustainability to be able to teach us that
ill farming technique, that oldest living aquaculture system in the world.
So they had a deep vision that that just was
(32:56):
something special. But being able to kick off landing Justice
hearings on My Ancestors Country as well or given the
first vote there. The Thistle was the name of the
boat that the Hinties were on, and being able to
kick off yeah, that on on My Ancestors Country was
certainly something that will stick with me for the rest
of my life. But as I said before, just you know,
every day Triz the people, you think you've heard it all,
(33:17):
and then someone will come out and you're just like
wow or like or you'll get that is this still happening?
How is this still happen? It also reinforces your point about,
you know, being connected to culture, country and community and
what sort of fills the cup up on a continual
basis is engaging my own ceremonies that have been passed
down to me through my father and his father and
(33:39):
so forth as well. So some men ceremony of the stuff there,
but also smoking ceremonies, being around mob. You know, as
soon as you're walking a room with the mob and stuff,
you just smile and I'll have a best laugh, and
you might be about to talk about sort of traumatic stuff,
but then you just have the best laugh, and then
you get through the business, and then you hang back
after for that extra cup of tea, that extra caffeine hit,
(34:00):
and you do the business and then you you just
have a good laugh and you hear from them and
be with them about you know, how they are. I
remember one particular elder recently who was really unsure, you know,
for six months he was un and ran about coming
forward to you look and share it his truth. And
uncle came in and he was quite itchy and irritated,
like just in the body because he had a lot
of built up drama that he just needed to get
(34:21):
off his chest. And I sit with that uncle for
six hours. I sat with that uncle. Bless him. I'll
never forget him as well, but six hours. But why
highlight his journey is that after that six hours, I
saw it about five hours into the session. It was
over a couple of days, but into the second session
the itching stopped. That's the kind of stuff that drives you,
(34:42):
that motivates you, and also as well, I mean, you know,
drawing on my skills from working in government. That was
one of the things while I went to working government
to learn their ways, to understand how they see the world,
understand how they see our people, but understand how their
systems work. You know, we need our strong advocates on
the outside really fighting really hard for change, but we
also need deadly strong, black talented people who can not
(35:05):
only survive working in government, but also thrive, and they
need investment. They need to be able to pathways for
their healing as well so they can ultimately thrive as well.
Another point of view there as well, is just making
sure they're investing in our women as well. They get
forgotten about. You know. I do hear a lot in
the media and so forth about women's rights and stuff.
I'm a very big supporter of that. But then when
(35:27):
I look at our women and our women are at
the bottom of the bottom, and it's just not right.
And now women have human rights and ow women also
have cultural rights as well, it breaks my heart. You know,
it absolutely breaks my heart to see where our women
are at and how you know, men are treating them,
you know, and the you know, the constant threat of
family violence against our women as well, just you know,
(35:48):
really breaks my heart and it's something that I'm really
passionate about as well. I've been pretty outspoken on this subject,
and I'll continue to be outspoken as well, not for
myself to make it about myself, but to make sure
that the voices and our women are being respected, heard, appreciated,
and ultimately valued.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Thank you for sharing some of those experiences, which I
imagine you're probably still in this will be in this
state of processing a lot of these over becoming months
and years to come.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
That's exactly right, you know, And I think it's something
that you know, it's a societal issue and a men's issue.
You know, this is a bloke's issue. It's not a
women's issue, you know. And I'm not trying to take
away and disempower women's voice around this subject. I've been
advocating for a long time, you know, and as time
us men step up and start working with other men
and calling things out and so forth as well, I
think it's really important and they'll only be further exacerbated
(36:41):
by we're about to start. Sorry, we already have started
our Housing, Education, Health and Economic Prosperity hearings where we've
encouraged community members to come forward and share their trues,
and we're holding hearings, so I encourage people to engage
in those hearings as well. We also have relevance seeing
your bureaucrats and also government is responsible for those portfolios
(37:06):
before us in the next couple of weeks as well,
and we will also be focusing on women but also
our family violence as well.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I want to circle a little bit back to the
process if I can.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
You've got twelve months between now June twenty twenty four
to twenty twenty five where the final report will be submitted,
and I want to talk a little bit around the process,
where we are and what's happened. So hearings have been
happening for the last twelve months to almost twelve months.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, and your Rook has delivered an interim.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Report in June twenty twenty two, and then in August
twenty twenty three. In the myriad of stuff that was
happening with the referendum, you Rook Commission delivered a critical
Issues Report and in that report contained forty six key
preliminary recommendations and a lot of what has come through.
(37:59):
It talks to what we as black fellows inherently know,
which she said Australia is a racist colony which has
been built on racism, and that we think about systems
and policies as these kind of mythical things, but they're
really public policy decisions that have been built and based
and the decisions have been made because of its proximity
(38:22):
to race and power and privilege, and so that the
report was quite groundbreaking. And to date we've heard from
the Victorian government and they have supported four of the
forty six recommendations in full and twenty four in principle,
and I think fifteen or so are being considered, and
(38:44):
I believe, if my mass is right, three were not
considered entirely. I want to ask your thoughts on the
government's responses in principle so far. What's quite interesting is
there's been lots of evidence that's been provided by ministers.
One of the most memorable ones for me was Minister
Atalie Hutchins, who is responsible for leading the treaty process
(39:07):
in Victorian and kind of quoting the Productivity Commissions report
around this inerting government and that there's this good will
that government just doesn't understand self determinator, it doesn't understand racism,
and so I want to ask you what are your
thoughts on the government's responses so far and does that
give you confidence that this government is ready to really
(39:28):
walk the talk.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
I'm always really clear, I always speak truth you look,
and I have an expectation that all those recommendations to
be implemented, and I'll continue to tell government that in
every public forum that I get the opportunity to do that.
As you said, this is hundreds and hundreds of people
coming forward and sharing their true is This is not
anecdotal evidence of we just felt like putting these recommendations forward.
(39:52):
So first and foremost, I want to make that point
really clear to people listening in and hopefully some victure
and government people are listening in as well. But yeah,
that I have an expectation. The commissioners have an expectation
the five of us that we back in those recommendations,
all forty six of them as well. So I think
that's something that will continue to advocate for. But yes,
it is pretty underwhelming. It is very underwhelming as a
(40:14):
proud Gunjamarafala to hear government come forward and say that
they've knocked out three of the recommendations and I kind
of put all the rest into still under consideration because
we haven't got clarity. I mean, when you get clarity
is when we fully endorse or we fully back in.
I either four. But us as a commissioner, we still
have expectations and will continue to be asking the tough
questions of government when they're on the stand. One thing
(40:36):
I do really want to reiterate to people listening in
that we will be holding accountability hearings later this year.
Not many people know about that, but we will be
holding accountability hearings where we'll be calling relevant ministers and
potentially the Chief Commissioner of Police back to answer questions
relating to you. Look for Justice report which made those
(40:57):
forty six recommendations well around where they're at on the
implementation progress and also what they're doing about making sure
that they are working alongside the Assembly to implement the recommendations.
And that's why we have the Assembly. It goes to
my earlier point around we have an elected body who
are also back in and endorsed pretty publicly. They came
much strongly to back in our report. So while we
(41:19):
are about to start negotiations of treaty with no doubt what.
I am confident that those forty six recommendations, alongside the
future recommendations that we will provide in the rest of
the inquiry that will cover land, skies and waters, health, housing, education,
and economic prosperity as well. You know, it is underwhelming,
but I also want to encourage people still to come
(41:41):
forward and share their truth. It's not wasted again. We
are documenting the true history of Victoria. We're documenting and
articulating the official public record to develop a shared understanding
for people. This is not anecdotal we just cook these
up overnight. This is hundreds and hundreds of people coming
forward and sharing their truth. This is us going into prisons,
you know, throughout the state, talking to prisoners, getting lived
(42:04):
experience and understanding. A lot of the evidence not only
just comes from community, it comes from government. It comes
from the policies and procedures they adhere to. People created
the system. The system did not create itself. So people
create these systems and people can change these systems. And
one of the things we've noticed is it's really hard
(42:26):
to change legislation. But at the same time they've always
changed legislation to make sure that we are continually shut
out of the system, and that we are judged and
that we are misrepresented in many different facets. Again, the
changes to bail and they knew negatively that that would
have an disproportionate impact on our people, and yet they
(42:49):
still pushed that through. So, you know, this is really
important raise the age. We have an expectation that that
gets sorted straight away, not a transitional pathway model. We
have the evidence backed up.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
To hear say that, because like, yeah, you're right, it
comes down to this good will. But then also yeah,
the pace that things need to change and government's ability
to accept that these things need to be Some things
need to speed up, some things need to slow down,
and at all turns and angles, self governance and self
determination from mobs need to be centered throughout.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Is it the view that the both.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
The interim and the final reports that those recommendations that
are shaped up will complement the treaty process as we've mentioned,
and provide the public record, but ultimately really shape the
public policy process.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Or is it the view that these hearings will.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Shape how government engages with mob and sets up governance
arrangements and public policy broadly. Is there that practical element
that government will shift how it does its day to
day business based off some of these recommendations.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Well, it's a really good question, and I think it's
actually starting to have an even though it might not
be systemic like our people expect. But I think seeing
ministers come before the Commission, and I've had many conversations
with them during the hearings but also afterwards when standing there,
and I can guarantee that every single one of them
is said, I have learned so much about the system,
(44:21):
but also about you know, how Aboriginal people, aboriginal tytrail,
other people have been impacted by our laws and our
policies and the way we go about working with them
as well. We'll talk about shared understanding. It's also them
coming through a process also gets them to understand because
I'm sure they're asking questions of well, why didn't blackfellows
meet the threshold. I mean you could see the minister
(44:44):
quivering when he said that to us, and it's just like,
you know, these people are human as well at the
end of the day, and yes, they need to be
accountable for the systems that they are ultimately implementing, and
we don't shy away from that. But so they have
also shared about their experiencing coming forward and they're not
knowing and stuff. But the challenge is is that when
you apologize and you come forward, you go back and
(45:04):
you actually make change. And I think that's where the
expectations come in, is that yep, you can come forward
and you can say okay, well I didn't know. However,
the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. And
we need to see change, you know, we need to
see drastic change now. Having the ability to educate you know,
not just Victorians but all Australians on the true history
(45:25):
and just you know, many people coming forward and just
going I didn't know that we can google when there's
something wrong with us, you know, we've got a running nose.
We might do a quick Google. But when it comes
to googling about our people around what's happened and so forth,
And this is what we need to encourage people to do.
Look for Look to our website. It's pretty accessible where
you can click on hearings and see witnesses that have
(45:46):
come before. And some of them may be your family,
but also some of them you may have heard, or
some of them might not have been as well. So
but again I stick by that as accountability hearings later
in the year to call people back to make sure
that they are getting on and implementing the recommendations.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing about the accountability
hearings and just everything you're doing at this commission process.
The thing that I take away from that point is
to have a changed kind of consciousness or a change
in how we see the world. It really means that
we have to integrate this into our practice, into our
day to day, into who we are and what country
(46:24):
we really want to be. That involves some action as
well as this sort of change our consciousness. Where are
we at now, So you mentioned you're doing education, health
and housing. Now are we at the final stages of
the hearing processes. What's the sort of next little journey
look like and where can community come and participate and
(46:44):
be a part of this if they're not already that's right.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
So we have started last week health, housing, education, and
economic prosperity. And that's something that we've only been able
to cut through in the last sort of fifteen twenty
years around setting up aboriginal businesses and so forth, as
well and being able to generate self determination through that lens.
So we feel that it's really important as a commission
that we inquire into that. Those hearings started last week
(47:09):
and we'll be doing them for the next month, so
again having senior bureaucrats and the ministers responsible, but also
hearing from community as well over that next month period.
But we're continually advocating and encouraging people to come forward
and share their truths as well. It doesn't matter how
important you think they are or how less important. At
the end of the day, reach out. We have o
truth receivers who will connect with as well to be
(47:32):
able to come talk through the process social and emotional well being,
to help people through that process. I think that's incredibly
important that we don't skip on that, we don't skint
on that, because that's really important to be able to
help our people through healing as well, pre and post
them coming forward and sharing their truths as well. Yeah,
so wanting to encourage people to do that, but also
legal advice as well around being able to make sure
(47:53):
that you've got coverage for some of the things that
you need to share and want to share as well.
And most of the time you know you're receiving through
this process with your own people as well, which is
incredibly important and powerful that you don't need to explain
those really important things that a lot of non Aboriginal
people when they try to work with our people get
really wrong as well. So you know, they're open till
the end of the year, so are encouraging people to
do that. And also we'll be going around the state
(48:15):
to talk about some of the things we've heard from
the Land Injustice Inquiry as well. But we are developing
a report to go back to government and that takes
a lot of time because again we don't just cook
these things up out of anecdotal and how we feel
evidence and so forth. This is actually we've got to
deeply look at the evidence that we've received from community importantly,
but also government and the witness statements and what they
(48:38):
say on the stand as well, and we'll make recommendations
to go back to the First People's Assembly of Victoria
and government to negotiate through treaty. So that'll take a
bit of time because we want to get those recommendations right,
as we did in the last report out of the
forty six they were right. And also we're thinking about
how we look to close out the commission and what
(48:59):
are the sort of things that we'll be doing. But
primarily it's focusing in on courage people to come forward,
share your truths, get in while we can, and also
YEA developing the report and the recommendations to go back
to government alongside that accountability hearing later in the year.
So I watch this space and you know, it's great
for people to be able to come on the pathway
to a shared future. We're not able to shared future yet,
(49:22):
but through treaty and truth telling, we can truly be
on a shared future that ultimately enables our people to
be self determining that recognizes not only our human rights,
but recognizing our culture rights as first peoples under undrip
and making sure that people understand that that Aboriginal people
do have inherent cultural rights to land, water, that their laws,
(49:44):
their customs, their language and traditions. That's a little bit
different to human rights, even though it is a form
of human rights, but that's something special that we expect
those cultural rights to be adhered to alongside our basic
human rights around services, health, housing, education, and economic prosperity
and so forth as well. Again, thanks for the opportunity
(50:05):
to come and yarn up with you. It's always Deadly
and appreciate you and the work that you're doing and
the voices that you're sharing and the messages that you're
putting out there to our people. You know, we're really
proud of the work that you're doing. Stay strong and
make sure you're looking after yourself. We've got plenty of
work to do, and let's get cracking and make sure
we make it happen.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Thank you so so much.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
I really really appreciate you sharing and being on the
show today and just all the work you're doing for
our communities too, and your families and yeah, mobs who
are looking at this process from other parts of this continent,
watching the leadership that you're showing and the grace and
passion that you bring to this work.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Rus I really appreciate you. So thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
Tourn Deadly. In my language, we say well look, which
means for now, we never say goodbye. We always see
each other again, So.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Well look, thank you so much for listening, you mob.
If you are vibing this season of yarning up, then
please is head over to Applespotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts from. To show us some love, rate and review. Alternatively,
you can get in contact and give us some feedback
(51:16):
by visiting www. Dot Carolinekow dot com dot au
Podcast Unite our Voices.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Welcome to Yannier, the podcast that showcases First Nations stories
and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's history
(00:28):
to work towards a better future. I'm your host, proud
barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the Rundery people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
(00:53):
and always will be unseated Aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.
Hey you mob, We just want to say a huge,
heartfelt thank you for continuing to join us here at
Yarning Up. You know, each and every fortnight we have
the incredible privilege of sitting down and hearing from black
(01:18):
fellows right across so called Australia. You know, we have beautiful, candid, heartfelt,
juicy yarns. We get to learn about theirs and their
family stories. And to each and every guest who has
joined us, we say thank you, thank you so much.
(01:42):
If you're vibing the show and you want to help
us continue to elevate Black people and black stories our medicine.
Then please rate and review, you know, tell your friends,
tell your arnies, tell your uncles, and help us continue
to yes, spread spread the joy and the love and
(02:06):
these incredible Black people and Black stories. We're putting in
a content warning for today's episode, You Mob. This episode
is an important one. I had the privilege of sitting
down with Commissioner Travis Lovett at the Yarook Justice Commission,
(02:26):
which is the first formal truth telling process which is
happening into the historical and ongoing injustices experienced by First
Nations people. It's happening here in Victoria, and I just
want you to consider, you know, how resource your feeling
(02:46):
when you're listening to today's episode. It discusses sensitive topics
that some people might find distressing, So, you know, don't
be ashamed and asking for help. You Mob, one three
yarn can be contacted our friends one three Yan. I
have used them myself before. Their number is one three nine,
(03:10):
two seven six and they're available twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
All love you, Mob, Thanks for being here. I'm just
so grateful to have here.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Up.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Mara Gundi Jamara Traditional owner Travis Love it sitting down
with me today, So welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Welcome to Yanni.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Out deadlely and thanks for the opportunity to be on
Yan and up. It's really great. And I've been able
to listen into some of the other mob that you've
had on the show as well, so you know, it's
also a privilege for me to be able to come
on here and be in the presence of black excellence
as well. Two way here, we.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Really like to start to get to know a bit
more about you before we sort of start talking about
this process.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So can you tell us a little bit about you
and your mob.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Well as a customer people as well. And I know
you've already done this, but I'll do it my way
or old people's old people's way here, which is in language.
So lula of my luck, good luck Lyny Travis Love,
Kenamara Jamara meeting Lindyaan Cook on Canada, Jubin meeting what
and ma meeting called in meeting Nia kabanju Wang. Don't
book a bit of beaudity meeting that geng meeting nag
(04:22):
me and more so, just acknowledged country and pay my
respects to the Injuri people of the call and nation.
I also pay my respects to Bundle the Spirit Creator
and also Wa the Crow. It's really important that we
also bring war in because that's the laws, customs and traditions,
and we've got to adhere to those, particularly as visitors
on their country. And I said, as well, as you
(04:43):
introduced me as a proud good and Jamara and Karatmarra
man so originally as what now known as Lake Conda
is where my people stem from as well. So I'm
really proud of my good Jamara connections and in particular
being a proud karat Mara good Jamara Feller. But yeah,
grew up in Fitzroy to start with. So I have
the luxury of being one of twenty eight kids and
(05:04):
I'll say that again twenty eight, So come from a
massive family and I'm really proud of that, and really
proud of all my brothers and sisters and their contributions
to our existence and carrying on the family name as well.
But yeah, grew up in Fitzroy to start within the
high rise flats. So it's quite interesting that we're inquiring
in the housing, but I grew up in housing Commission
(05:24):
housing as many of the mob did then, particularly being
relocated off missions and so forth, and moved away from country,
and then we moved out to Preston. I grew up
at a little bit later when I was about six
or seven, moved out to Preston there and grew up
out that way. So that was always really fond memories
about being around family, but also community as well as
every other mob. I think, you know, you grow up
(05:44):
and there's always thousands of people around your house and
so forth as well. So good times, good last but
also challenging times around the struggles too for our people
as well and the resistance, but also the fight the
continual fight for advocacy around land rights and water rights
and our people's human rights to be respected as well. Worked,
I guess in so many of the Cury ollg so
(06:04):
I've worked that's coming through before sort of moving into
the Caury Courts where I was the manager of Career Courts,
but started off as a career court officer there. So
just working in I guess, in and out of community,
but also in government to really learn the ways of
government and how government work and operate as well. And
also you know, I guess in more sort of contemporary
times as well. She's talking like I'm a real old fellow,
(06:25):
I'm only forty one, but also having you know, beauty
about having two children, being married to my wife and nada,
but also two beautiful children, my daughter Hunter who's ten,
real strong care of Margot tomorrow woman coming through and
she let everyone know that too, which is really deadly.
And also my son who's a duke love At another
real warrior coming through as well, you know, really proud
(06:46):
of them, and also the work that they enable me
to do. And I think family is really important. We
tend to forget the ones that really back us in
and enable us. You know a lot of people say
Jiju everywhere, and yeah, I am everywhere. But it's also
having the support of family and children who make their
sacrifices to enable me to be able to be across
the state, yarn and talk in the mob, you know,
whether it be having cups of teas or whether it
(07:08):
be information sessions or around tables all the hearings that
I get a lot of public profile as well, so
you know, it's really important that we always shout out
family as well.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh how beautiful, I mean it's so lovely to hear
firstly just you to kick off this gun in language,
and how special that is.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's not surprising, you know, you have.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Worked so extensively in supporting the rights of mobs across
cultural heritage in your working governments.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But I guess also hearing your family life and where.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
You come from, and how all of these cumulative and
lived and family and cultural and community experiences sort of
led to you and shaped you to playing this role.
I too, was also a kid of the Commission Housing.
I also some time impresston at Stoke Street there, so
I know that feeling of being surrounded by mob, but
(07:57):
then also here seeing the struggle and I guess holding
those multiple troops that we all hold as blackfellows.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah, and also I think it's important, you know, another
reason why I speak in languages also to send messages
to our old people who are no longer with us
upstairs there. You know, I'm just saying, hey, we got you,
we got you just down here, and yes there's a
lot of traumatic things still happening to our people, but
we've got user of sending your messages that you know,
you continue fight, struggle, resistance and you'll tend to know that.
I won't use the word resilience. I stop saying that
(08:25):
I've had a few years back, because I feel that
resilience for our people, we just get lumped in this
resilient basket where things can just keep happening to us.
So I don't use that word anymore. I use resistance
as well, because I think it's really important. But yeah,
sending their messages but also sending messages to community and
our people as well. You know, it's really hard work
to reclaim your language, and it's important that you know,
we share that and that people can engage with it.
(08:47):
We're all born with it. We're all born with it inside.
At the right time, we just release it, and we've
got to do a bit of work to release it.
But still we're all born with it. And I think
that's really important as well, and important that my children
speak in language, which they do at home, but also
at school as well. You know, when you see me
talking in Langue, which my children are also doing it
in school every day, which is absolutely fantastic and powerful
(09:08):
for them. And also, you know, growing up away from country,
it also helps further connect them to country. Their ancestors
support part of identity.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So right, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Want to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
You know, your rook is the Wamba Wamber word for truth,
and it's the first of its kind formal truth talent,
and it was established I guess during the push for
Treaty during the First People's Assembly. At the time, I
was working at a Victorian Treaty Advancement Commission, and we
really recognize that he had justice, truth and healing. They
really have to go hand in hand, and so I'd
(09:41):
really love to just sort of start there for people
who aren't plugged in and aren't familiar with the work
or the mandate I guess of what your rook is
being set out to do.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm wondering if you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Could tell us about the role and what the Commission's
key objectives are through this truth telling process.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
You know, and it's really important as we've done, you know,
acknowledging yourself the work you did, but also Annie Jill
as well as our first Treaty Advancing Commissioner as well,
and I know you did a power of work to
support her. So recognizing your contributions to our people's continued
achievements there as well. We are a formal truth telling Commission,
and there's been a few of these set up around
the world. But the point of difference for us is
(10:21):
we actually have Royal Commission powers. And I think that's
really important point is that when Yuruk was first set up,
community were very strongly kind of wording that didn't really
want a Royal Commission. We'd had plenty of them and
they hadn't really done much for our people. So it
was decided that we would have a truth taling Commission
ultimately with Royal Commission powers. And the Royal Commission powers
really give you power and authority to compel witnesses or
(10:44):
to compel evidence should it be required from government, and
that's a really important point of difference. But we are
a truth telling Commission going around the state and investigating
the ongoing systemic injustices since seventeen eighty eight Owen colonization
really started and it has impacted our people. Our job
is to also look at and establish the official public
(11:05):
record of Victoria, and it's really important for people listening
in whether they're mob or whether they're not. But we
are not documenting aboriginal truths here. We are documenting the
true history of Victoria. Our people have been saying this
for two hundred plus years about the ongoing impacts and
our fight struggle and resistance around government policy and what
they've done and what they continue to do.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
This is not a.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Historical matter that we're investigating. We investigating contemporary issues, which
is pretty much up until today. So that's really important
in the game to establish an official public record to
document the true history of what has happened to our
people since colonization. Our mob player significant part in documenting
their truths and coming forward and we encourage always people
to come forward and share their lived experience and their
(11:50):
truths with us as the truth telling process. There's many
different sort of facts to that around putting it on
the public record what's happened. But also you mentioned a
keyword earlier around on the pathway to healing, and it
adds to healing around them being able to come and
share their story knowing as well that our people are listening. Also,
four out of the five commissioners who sit on this
(12:10):
commissioner blackfellows or as mob. That's really important as well.
And we do have a former Federal Court judge also
who is a commissioner as well. But having mob leading
this process and shaping this process as well, but really
trying to not retraumatize people and that's what we work
really hard to do. We also have social emotional wellbeing
experts who work within our commission, but also counsel is
(12:33):
available for people who also come and share their truths,
alongside legal assistance to help them with any kind of
legal matters aligned to them coming in submitting their lived
experience and their truths as well. But we're also are
encouraging non Aboriginal people to come forward and share their
truths as well. And I'm not too sure a few viewers,
but I'd like to direct them to our website to
check out Susannah Henty evidence that was incredibly powerful for
(12:58):
her to come forward and share her family story around
their role in colination and the impacts that her family
has had on the Good Jamara people in particular around
you know in Portland all country really not just in Portland,
but you know that's kind of you know, the main
feature of land based where we name these things and
from a colonial port of view, but Kilgar Country close
(13:19):
to that being Kilgar a country if we're talking our
mobs terms as well, is you know the massacre that
happened there as well, which is, you know, absolutely terrible,
and our people have been saying this for two hundred years,
and it was just, you know, for the first time
a non average person had come forward and shared at
our commission, shared the history of what her family had
done to our people.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I mean, will be popping all of your website and
videos in our show notes, but I must say that
hearing from a direct descendant of a settler colonizer in
that manner was really compelling.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
In sins of cornialism have not been his, they have
not been redeemed. Marino Downs should be returned. I don't
want to see a town called Handy. I don't want
to see handy monuments. I was told by my high
school teacher that we were pioneers. This is the rhetoric
(14:14):
that is used. There have been five generations of Handy
family members who have not said anything, and I don't
want to be part of the sixth generation who doesn't
see anything.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
The historical exclusion from basic health care continues to haunt
Aboriginal communities, leaving jury marks on our health outcomes. Intergenerational
wealth disparities further exacerbate the divide.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
How much of the eighty three billion dollar revenue has
been distributed directly to First nations and the answer to
that question, The answer is zero. Directly water corporations collect
revenue and they don't report against that though nor are
they required to, so the entwer is zero.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Gippsland Anglicans lament that our colonial history includes atrocities committed
against First peoples, and that some of those involved in
these henous but no longer unspeakable acts are likely to
have identified with the Church of England. The Anglican Church
(15:34):
in Gippsland has been complicit in and has benefited from,
the dispossession and other harms caused by Victoria's colonization, predicated
in part on the theologically repugnant and now repudiated doctrine
of discovery, and it's outworking in the morally bankrupt ideology
(16:00):
of Terrannalius.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
I was born in nineteen sixty four, which meant that
I was assured of a right to vote in adulthood,
unlike Aboriginal adults, and that my life expectancy would be
far greater than that of Aboriginal children of the same age,
and that my pathway to an education was well lit
and clear because I had good, secure housing and family connections,
(16:23):
unlike that of many Aboriginal children of similar age.
Speaker 8 (16:27):
Yeah, so it's it's interesting to hear as becoming a
care because it was never like that. It was kind
of just like like looking after family, you know.
Speaker 9 (16:44):
But I was yeah, twenty one at the time where yeah,
Tim Johnny needed me and needed a care in that
chapter of her journey, and she was around thirteen years
(17:05):
old with beautiful but challenging because of there was like
these two contradicting ways of caring for our young ones,
and I think like having that the pressure at times
from the child protection system to be a quote definition
(17:28):
of a kinship care versus me just naturally caring for
her as her older cousin.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
For anyone who is listening, you know, we have a
lot of overseas listeners. And as Commissioner love It has said,
was established in twenty twenty one and the cultural holistic
sort of healing element of this is really special for
anyone who has had the privilege of sitting in that space.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Whilst it has the mandate of a.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Royal commission, it is really grounded in Aboriginal petty godgy
and knowledge and wisdom and truths.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
As well in the space and surrounding it, to allow.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
People to participate and feel comfortable in doing so. And
so with that in mind, you know, the objectives is,
as you say, to establish a public record for first
people's experiences, but also documenting an official document of the
truth here in Victoria. According to Anta, truth taling processes
(18:30):
have been used globally as transitional justice mechanisms in post
conflict and colonized countries. Overall, a truth telling processor's aim
is to essentially reconcile the relationship between survivors of state
sponsored violence, the state and the general public and to
(18:56):
facilitate a shared understanding that might promote healing. And this
can hold accountable those who carried out the violence or
oppression and challenge ongoing harmful practices. You know, there are
many examples internationally with countries like South Africa and Canada
and now more recently here in so called Australia. Something
(19:21):
I wanted to ask around that is, you know, in
Australia we have this really comfortable amnesia about ourselves. There's
such a dissonance between what's happened in the last two
hundred and thirty six years. It's almost like this dystopia
that people have acquired land and power and resources and privilege,
(19:41):
both financial means, social cachet, just.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
In a vacuum.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
And so you know, in Australia we have participated since
the early nineties in a myriad of royal commissions from
the Royal Death and Custody bring them Home. We've had
a failed referendum here. What's different about this process and
what makes us think that Australia is finally ready to
I guess listen and accept that there are other truths
(20:07):
here that we existed long before modern governments.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, look, it's a really great question. I've been reflecting
on this and pretty deeply, particularly since the referendum, and
I mean even just hearing a lot of the evidence
that we hear, you know, and you said earlier about
you know this. Also part of the mandate is to
develop a shared understanding as we document the true history,
and a lot of people don't know of the role
that massacres happened. We had our premier come in Victoria
(20:34):
a couple of weeks ago and shared with us that
she'd grown up on jajo around country pretty much most
of her life and didn't know that not far from
where she lived there was massacre sites. I think that,
you know, really just trying to continually educate people, and
I know that's a lot of heavy lifting that our
people have done for two hundred years. We've been saying
this stuff for a long period of time, so making
(20:55):
sure that we, you know, really are sharing the truths,
but also making sure that public are aware of what's happened.
Then the Aboriginal Protection Bill was established, and a lot
of people don't know that. So the Protection Board was
established to protect us. So called protect us because we
need to protecting from people who were massacring us. And
then we will round it up onto churches and missions
(21:16):
and further managed even further again, so this continual impounding
of everyone else being able to generate wealth around us
and be able to live and work and go about
their everyday lives. Where we had to seek approval. We've
had evidence before us where aunties have written to the
minission manager to say that they've saved up enough money
to buy property, to write to the mission manager to say, hey,
(21:36):
will you allow us to leave the mission to be
able to purchase the property. We've been made aware that
this property is to say we have the funds, we
don't need any extra support apart from you, to say
that you release us from the mission. It absolutely breaks
your heart to hear this. And this is not, you know,
two hundred years ago. This is in the last fifty years.
(21:57):
You know, sixty seven people didn't realize that we didn't
have any voting rights as a people. But what does
give me confidence is we do have the First People's
Assembly of Victoria. And I've got to be really careful
when I articulate this, because our people have been advocating
really hard for the Bringing Them Home and Report recommendations
and also the Royal Commission into Abigal dis and Custody recommendations.
(22:17):
So what I'm about to say is definitely not to
take away from the sheer fight, advocacy and resistance that
our people and our organizations, our echoes are who have
worked really hard to continue to maintain a strong voice
to government about our expectations as a people and them
adhering to those expectations. But I feel more confident that
we have a First People's Assembly of Victoria, and also
(22:37):
part of our mandate is to provide recommendations that go
to the negotiations of treaty. So we make recommendations to
the First People's Assembly and the Victorian government and hopefully
they will pick these recommendations up and negotiate them through
treaty as well. So what the point of difference here
is we have a body that we've elected as mob
for the first time that we've elected our people to
(22:59):
represent us in those negotiations, and they will keep the
pressure on government through the those negotiations that are yet
to commence. So our recommendations that we put back to
government and the Assembly can be implemented as well, and
where they haven't been I guess been able to negotiate
those through, we still have a body and a number
of people that we have elected to continue to advocate
(23:20):
for those recommendations to be implanted alongside to complement to
not take over, but to complement our Aboriginal community controlled
sector as well. So I think that that's something that
you know, we can't really diminish because our people have
fought really hard for those processes and we need to
mobilize and capitalize on these processes that are available to
(23:41):
us as well. So that's probably a point of difference. Again,
just to reiterate, I don't want to take away from
the years and years of struggle and fight, and we've
lost and elders, and we're continually losing elders. We lost
one even just last week. So just you know, we've
got to keep that in our minds and keep that
in our hearts around Hey, we got work to do.
But also we're optimistic. Our people won't give up. We
(24:03):
ain't go and nowhere, no matter what they've done to us.
Our people are optimistic, We are passionate, We are committed
to see this through, and we will make sure that
our children and their children and six generations children will
be able to start to inherit the wealth that they
rightfully so deserve.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Really really appreciate you sort of.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Guiding us to that journey and reminding us sometimes of that.
I think sometimes he as black fellows in a really
violent colony, it can be quite defeating at times. And
I think we've all been a little bit of a
repair period right now, particularly heightened by what's happening around
global movement and liberation of indigenous people against settler colonialism
(24:46):
more broadly, And I think you're writing just reminding us
that so many of our people have fought so hard
in these reforms, and you know, not to mention the
thousands upon thousands of black fellows who have generously and
passionately shared their lived and families lived experiences for the
betterment of this change. And we really can't lose sight
(25:08):
of this really important opportunity. So thanks for that beautiful reminder.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
And I think as well, it's a really important point
that you also put out there as well, is that
everyone's truth is important, everyone's contribution is important, you know,
and I think that that's something that you know, I
draw up on all the time. You know, it's not
only a draw inspiration from my family, but just you know,
meeting with mob who come in and who share their truths.
You know, it's inspiring, but it's also you know, it
(25:34):
drives you to want to see change and to expect
to see change, not just one we have expectations as
a people, which is also why we want to continue
the fight to fight and the referendum hurt. Don't get
me wrong, I'm not trying to blow over and diminish
that key part that really hurt. You know, Australia really
told us as a people, you know, where we belong
and where we sit. Again, not the first time they've
(25:55):
done that, but again, so you know, we're dusting ourselves off,
and we have dusted ourselves on, and we will show
our children what we do best to which is advocate
and activate our rights.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It really did hurt, and many of us are still
definitely grappling with where to next. And I know myself,
I've been very much just diverting my interest into this
process while still supporting community and our averageal organizations. But
you know, I think there's just there's a real opportunity
here for us to, as you say, even just to
hear stories and gather this information and to have it
(26:31):
for the first time archive, but you know, to really
challenge the status quo about what existed and what continues
to exist here.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And also as well, I think one of the things
that I'd like to highlight as well is that through
the recent Land Injustice hearings, you know, we highlighted the
billions and billions of dollars and how wealthy the state
of Victoria is and how people have seen hardly a
cent of that. In twenty one, twenty two financial year,
it was over eight billion dollars in revenue generated from
(27:01):
water alone. You know, since eighteen fifty one, two hundred
and eighty six billion dollars has been extracted from the
land from gold, and the mob have seen zero I'll
repeat that, zero dollars from that wealth that's being created.
(27:22):
You know. I mean, I can keep going on about
statistics and stuff, you know, but at the end of
the day, there was billions of dollars and there was
also you know, forestry and grazing licenses and things where
our people have been shut out of the system. But
also when we'd asked the minister about why our people
have been shut out of the system or didn't receive
(27:44):
the benefits from a cultural rights point of view, and
the minister said, and it's hard for these ministers too
to come forward and be able to say some of
the stuff that the decisions that were not even their
decision at that point in time. But to reiterate, the
minister set Aboriginal people, traditional owners did not meet the
threshold because the threshold was set, so they could not
(28:04):
meet the threshold. That's their words, not our people's words.
So this is the importance of truth telling, truth sharing
and we encourage you know, people to come forward, but
also we want to encourage all people to listen in
our people particularly but also non Aboriginal people, whether in
Australia or across the world. You know, we are questioning
you know, the people like the Premier and the Deputy
(28:25):
Premier and all ministers responsible for their portfolios that oversee
policies against our people, which is every minister who is
in government at that particular point in time. There's so
much wealth. We live in a wealthy state and our people,
you know, through no fault of their own, have fought
really hard for native title, traditional owner settlement agreement, the
(28:47):
registered Abriiginal party status. But also you know, our echos,
our organizations, you know, they have continually told us that
they are so under resourced that they are expected to
provide holistic services to help you know, people and families,
but they're only funded for one kind of micro point
and then they're also overburdened. We heard for one traditional
(29:08):
owner group where they had fifty one contracts with the
same department funding contracts with the same department. How can
they not you know, in twenty twenty four be streamlining
these funding agreements, so it reduces the reporting burden. And
some of these organizations have fifteen to twenty people, you know,
I mean, how's how's fifteen to twenty people are going
(29:28):
to be able to keep up with fifty contracts. So anyway,
just these things are really important. But this is this
is what our people are grappling with every day, and
the misconception of that our people don't do right or
can't do right. I mean, you know, with what our
people have had to endure and continually enduring, it's you know,
just incredibly inspiring for us to be able to keep
the momentum up as well.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Will be backhumb right after this short break.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
At the moment where we are in this time.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
You know, I understand that to date there's been five
key areas the Commission. I've been really particularly interested in
the tile protection system. The criminal justice system went first,
that resulted in an interim report, and then there's been
Elders truths work on health and land water skies in justices.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You mentioned before about a couple of people.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
So the Premier, just Into Allen was the first premier
to take the YURUK Commission to take up I guess
providing evidence Katherine Henty, You know, on a personal level,
have there been people's testimonies in the formal hearing process
and through all the other mechanisms, so as I understand,
people are providing evidence through written submissions, through yarning circles,
(30:51):
through round tables, and through the formal hearing process. You know,
on a personal note, are there any particular pieces of evidence,
like you've just mentioned that you really have stayed with
you and have had an impact on you.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, there's plenty. I mean, I was fortunate enough to
witness a group of mob who shared their truths through dance,
didn't need to speak, but just share their truth through dance.
And that's just resistance of being able to practice culture.
And I think it just brings me back to and
just reminding people that we were forbidden, forbidden to speak language,
to practice culture, and your rations, irrations would be cut
(31:30):
if you were court. And I really like to overstate
the point because rations mean very little to start with,
and then if you are further on, rations from being
able to practice your culture or your court just highlights
the inhumane circumstances that our people have had to live
through for generations, you know, being able to court to
be able to do that so come forward and sharing
(31:51):
their truths through dance and being able to practice language
as well. We've had some fluent language speakers come forward
as well. We'll work really hard to reclaim the language,
but a lot of it is personal. You can't learn
this in schools and so forth. Susannah Henty's evidence as well,
which you know that was unique in the sense because
not only was the first time it happened, but also
was a proud gun Najamara man whose ancestors were impacted
(32:14):
by her ancestors. And continually to the day, you know,
the continued show of and display of the monument dedicated
to the Anti family throughout my ancestors the country. It's
a continual and a visual reminder to today about the
lack of recognition of our people as well, even though
we fought really hard for UNISESCO World Heritage listing, which
(32:35):
the mob really got and yes there was support from
government and some key stakeholders there, but that's on the
back of our people and our ancestors vision and we
can't lose sight of that. Because our ancestors had a
vision around sustainability to be able to teach us that
ill farming technique, that oldest living aquaculture system in the world.
So they had a deep vision that that just was
(32:56):
something special. But being able to kick off landing Justice
hearings on My Ancestors Country as well or given the
first vote there. The Thistle was the name of the
boat that the Hinties were on, and being able to
kick off yeah, that on on My Ancestors Country was
certainly something that will stick with me for the rest
of my life. But as I said before, just you know,
every day Triz the people, you think you've heard it all,
(33:17):
and then someone will come out and you're just like
wow or like or you'll get that is this still happening?
How is this still happen? It also reinforces your point about,
you know, being connected to culture, country and community and
what sort of fills the cup up on a continual
basis is engaging my own ceremonies that have been passed
down to me through my father and his father and
(33:39):
so forth as well. So some men ceremony of the stuff there,
but also smoking ceremonies, being around mob. You know, as
soon as you're walking a room with the mob and stuff,
you just smile and I'll have a best laugh, and
you might be about to talk about sort of traumatic stuff,
but then you just have the best laugh, and then
you get through the business, and then you hang back
after for that extra cup of tea, that extra caffeine hit,
(34:00):
and you do the business and then you you just
have a good laugh and you hear from them and
be with them about you know, how they are. I
remember one particular elder recently who was really unsure, you know,
for six months he was un and ran about coming
forward to you look and share it his truth. And
uncle came in and he was quite itchy and irritated,
like just in the body because he had a lot
of built up drama that he just needed to get
(34:21):
off his chest. And I sit with that uncle for
six hours. I sat with that uncle. Bless him. I'll
never forget him as well, but six hours. But why
highlight his journey is that after that six hours, I
saw it about five hours into the session. It was
over a couple of days, but into the second session
the itching stopped. That's the kind of stuff that drives you,
(34:42):
that motivates you, and also as well, I mean, you know,
drawing on my skills from working in government. That was
one of the things while I went to working government
to learn their ways, to understand how they see the world,
understand how they see our people, but understand how their
systems work. You know, we need our strong advocates on
the outside really fighting really hard for change, but we
also need deadly strong, black talented people who can not
(35:05):
only survive working in government, but also thrive, and they
need investment. They need to be able to pathways for
their healing as well so they can ultimately thrive as well.
Another point of view there as well, is just making
sure they're investing in our women as well. They get
forgotten about. You know. I do hear a lot in
the media and so forth about women's rights and stuff.
I'm a very big supporter of that. But then when
(35:27):
I look at our women and our women are at
the bottom of the bottom, and it's just not right.
And now women have human rights and ow women also
have cultural rights as well, it breaks my heart. You know,
it absolutely breaks my heart to see where our women
are at and how you know, men are treating them,
you know, and the you know, the constant threat of
family violence against our women as well, just you know,
(35:48):
really breaks my heart and it's something that I'm really
passionate about as well. I've been pretty outspoken on this subject,
and I'll continue to be outspoken as well, not for
myself to make it about myself, but to make sure
that the voices and our women are being respected, heard, appreciated,
and ultimately valued.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Thank you for sharing some of those experiences, which I
imagine you're probably still in this will be in this
state of processing a lot of these over becoming months
and years to come.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
That's exactly right, you know, And I think it's something
that you know, it's a societal issue and a men's issue.
You know, this is a bloke's issue. It's not a
women's issue, you know. And I'm not trying to take
away and disempower women's voice around this subject. I've been
advocating for a long time, you know, and as time
us men step up and start working with other men
and calling things out and so forth as well, I
think it's really important and they'll only be further exacerbated
(36:41):
by we're about to start. Sorry, we already have started
our Housing, Education, Health and Economic Prosperity hearings where we've
encouraged community members to come forward and share their trues,
and we're holding hearings, so I encourage people to engage
in those hearings as well. We also have relevance seeing
your bureaucrats and also government is responsible for those portfolios
(37:06):
before us in the next couple of weeks as well,
and we will also be focusing on women but also
our family violence as well.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I want to circle a little bit back to the
process if I can.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
You've got twelve months between now June twenty twenty four
to twenty twenty five where the final report will be submitted,
and I want to talk a little bit around the process,
where we are and what's happened. So hearings have been
happening for the last twelve months to almost twelve months.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, and your Rook has delivered an interim.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Report in June twenty twenty two, and then in August
twenty twenty three. In the myriad of stuff that was
happening with the referendum, you Rook Commission delivered a critical
Issues Report and in that report contained forty six key
preliminary recommendations and a lot of what has come through.
(37:59):
It talks to what we as black fellows inherently know,
which she said Australia is a racist colony which has
been built on racism, and that we think about systems
and policies as these kind of mythical things, but they're
really public policy decisions that have been built and based
and the decisions have been made because of its proximity
(38:22):
to race and power and privilege, and so that the
report was quite groundbreaking. And to date we've heard from
the Victorian government and they have supported four of the
forty six recommendations in full and twenty four in principle,
and I think fifteen or so are being considered, and
(38:44):
I believe, if my mass is right, three were not
considered entirely. I want to ask your thoughts on the
government's responses in principle so far. What's quite interesting is
there's been lots of evidence that's been provided by ministers.
One of the most memorable ones for me was Minister
Atalie Hutchins, who is responsible for leading the treaty process
(39:07):
in Victorian and kind of quoting the Productivity Commissions report
around this inerting government and that there's this good will
that government just doesn't understand self determinator, it doesn't understand racism,
and so I want to ask you what are your
thoughts on the government's responses so far and does that
give you confidence that this government is ready to really
(39:28):
walk the talk.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
I'm always really clear, I always speak truth you look,
and I have an expectation that all those recommendations to
be implemented, and I'll continue to tell government that in
every public forum that I get the opportunity to do that.
As you said, this is hundreds and hundreds of people
coming forward and sharing their true is This is not
anecdotal evidence of we just felt like putting these recommendations forward.
(39:52):
So first and foremost, I want to make that point
really clear to people listening in and hopefully some victure
and government people are listening in as well. But yeah,
that I have an expectation. The commissioners have an expectation
the five of us that we back in those recommendations,
all forty six of them as well. So I think
that's something that will continue to advocate for. But yes,
it is pretty underwhelming. It is very underwhelming as a
(40:14):
proud Gunjamarafala to hear government come forward and say that
they've knocked out three of the recommendations and I kind
of put all the rest into still under consideration because
we haven't got clarity. I mean, when you get clarity
is when we fully endorse or we fully back in.
I either four. But us as a commissioner, we still
have expectations and will continue to be asking the tough
questions of government when they're on the stand. One thing
(40:36):
I do really want to reiterate to people listening in
that we will be holding accountability hearings later this year.
Not many people know about that, but we will be
holding accountability hearings where we'll be calling relevant ministers and
potentially the Chief Commissioner of Police back to answer questions
relating to you. Look for Justice report which made those
(40:57):
forty six recommendations well around where they're at on the
implementation progress and also what they're doing about making sure
that they are working alongside the Assembly to implement the recommendations.
And that's why we have the Assembly. It goes to
my earlier point around we have an elected body who
are also back in and endorsed pretty publicly. They came
much strongly to back in our report. So while we
(41:19):
are about to start negotiations of treaty with no doubt what.
I am confident that those forty six recommendations, alongside the
future recommendations that we will provide in the rest of
the inquiry that will cover land, skies and waters, health, housing, education,
and economic prosperity as well. You know, it is underwhelming,
but I also want to encourage people still to come
(41:41):
forward and share their truth. It's not wasted again. We
are documenting the true history of Victoria. We're documenting and
articulating the official public record to develop a shared understanding
for people. This is not anecdotal we just cook these
up overnight. This is hundreds and hundreds of people coming
forward and sharing their truth. This is us going into prisons,
you know, throughout the state, talking to prisoners, getting lived
(42:04):
experience and understanding. A lot of the evidence not only
just comes from community, it comes from government. It comes
from the policies and procedures they adhere to. People created
the system. The system did not create itself. So people
create these systems and people can change these systems. And
one of the things we've noticed is it's really hard
(42:26):
to change legislation. But at the same time they've always
changed legislation to make sure that we are continually shut
out of the system, and that we are judged and
that we are misrepresented in many different facets. Again, the
changes to bail and they knew negatively that that would
have an disproportionate impact on our people, and yet they
(42:49):
still pushed that through. So, you know, this is really
important raise the age. We have an expectation that that
gets sorted straight away, not a transitional pathway model. We
have the evidence backed up.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
To hear say that, because like, yeah, you're right, it
comes down to this good will. But then also yeah,
the pace that things need to change and government's ability
to accept that these things need to be Some things
need to speed up, some things need to slow down,
and at all turns and angles, self governance and self
determination from mobs need to be centered throughout.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Is it the view that the both.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
The interim and the final reports that those recommendations that
are shaped up will complement the treaty process as we've mentioned,
and provide the public record, but ultimately really shape the
public policy process.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Or is it the view that these hearings will.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Shape how government engages with mob and sets up governance
arrangements and public policy broadly. Is there that practical element
that government will shift how it does its day to
day business based off some of these recommendations.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Well, it's a really good question, and I think it's
actually starting to have an even though it might not
be systemic like our people expect. But I think seeing
ministers come before the Commission, and I've had many conversations
with them during the hearings but also afterwards when standing there,
and I can guarantee that every single one of them
is said, I have learned so much about the system,
(44:21):
but also about you know, how Aboriginal people, aboriginal tytrail,
other people have been impacted by our laws and our
policies and the way we go about working with them
as well. We'll talk about shared understanding. It's also them
coming through a process also gets them to understand because
I'm sure they're asking questions of well, why didn't blackfellows
meet the threshold. I mean you could see the minister
(44:44):
quivering when he said that to us, and it's just like,
you know, these people are human as well at the
end of the day, and yes, they need to be
accountable for the systems that they are ultimately implementing, and
we don't shy away from that. But so they have
also shared about their experiencing coming forward and they're not
knowing and stuff. But the challenge is is that when
you apologize and you come forward, you go back and
(45:04):
you actually make change. And I think that's where the
expectations come in, is that yep, you can come forward
and you can say okay, well I didn't know. However,
the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. And
we need to see change, you know, we need to
see drastic change now. Having the ability to educate you know,
not just Victorians but all Australians on the true history
(45:25):
and just you know, many people coming forward and just
going I didn't know that we can google when there's
something wrong with us, you know, we've got a running nose.
We might do a quick Google. But when it comes
to googling about our people around what's happened and so forth,
And this is what we need to encourage people to do.
Look for Look to our website. It's pretty accessible where
you can click on hearings and see witnesses that have
(45:46):
come before. And some of them may be your family,
but also some of them you may have heard, or
some of them might not have been as well. So
but again I stick by that as accountability hearings later
in the year to call people back to make sure
that they are getting on and implementing the recommendations.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing about the accountability
hearings and just everything you're doing at this commission process.
The thing that I take away from that point is
to have a changed kind of consciousness or a change
in how we see the world. It really means that
we have to integrate this into our practice, into our
day to day, into who we are and what country
(46:24):
we really want to be. That involves some action as
well as this sort of change our consciousness. Where are
we at now, So you mentioned you're doing education, health
and housing. Now are we at the final stages of
the hearing processes. What's the sort of next little journey
look like and where can community come and participate and
(46:44):
be a part of this if they're not already that's right.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
So we have started last week health, housing, education, and
economic prosperity. And that's something that we've only been able
to cut through in the last sort of fifteen twenty
years around setting up aboriginal businesses and so forth, as
well and being able to generate self determination through that lens.
So we feel that it's really important as a commission
that we inquire into that. Those hearings started last week
(47:09):
and we'll be doing them for the next month, so
again having senior bureaucrats and the ministers responsible, but also
hearing from community as well over that next month period.
But we're continually advocating and encouraging people to come forward
and share their truths as well. It doesn't matter how
important you think they are or how less important. At
the end of the day, reach out. We have o
truth receivers who will connect with as well to be
(47:32):
able to come talk through the process social and emotional well being,
to help people through that process. I think that's incredibly
important that we don't skip on that, we don't skint
on that, because that's really important to be able to
help our people through healing as well, pre and post
them coming forward and sharing their truths as well. Yeah,
so wanting to encourage people to do that, but also
legal advice as well around being able to make sure
(47:53):
that you've got coverage for some of the things that
you need to share and want to share as well.
And most of the time you know you're receiving through
this process with your own people as well, which is
incredibly important and powerful that you don't need to explain
those really important things that a lot of non Aboriginal
people when they try to work with our people get
really wrong as well. So you know, they're open till
the end of the year, so are encouraging people to
do that. And also we'll be going around the state
(48:15):
to talk about some of the things we've heard from
the Land Injustice Inquiry as well. But we are developing
a report to go back to government and that takes
a lot of time because again we don't just cook
these things up out of anecdotal and how we feel
evidence and so forth. This is actually we've got to
deeply look at the evidence that we've received from community importantly,
but also government and the witness statements and what they
(48:38):
say on the stand as well, and we'll make recommendations
to go back to the First People's Assembly of Victoria
and government to negotiate through treaty. So that'll take a
bit of time because we want to get those recommendations right,
as we did in the last report out of the
forty six they were right. And also we're thinking about
how we look to close out the commission and what
(48:59):
are the sort of things that we'll be doing. But
primarily it's focusing in on courage people to come forward,
share your truths, get in while we can, and also
YEA developing the report and the recommendations to go back
to government alongside that accountability hearing later in the year.
So I watch this space and you know, it's great
for people to be able to come on the pathway
to a shared future. We're not able to shared future yet,
(49:22):
but through treaty and truth telling, we can truly be
on a shared future that ultimately enables our people to
be self determining that recognizes not only our human rights,
but recognizing our culture rights as first peoples under undrip
and making sure that people understand that that Aboriginal people
do have inherent cultural rights to land, water, that their laws,
(49:44):
their customs, their language and traditions. That's a little bit
different to human rights, even though it is a form
of human rights, but that's something special that we expect
those cultural rights to be adhered to alongside our basic
human rights around services, health, housing, education, and economic prosperity
and so forth as well. Again, thanks for the opportunity
(50:05):
to come and yarn up with you. It's always Deadly
and appreciate you and the work that you're doing and
the voices that you're sharing and the messages that you're
putting out there to our people. You know, we're really
proud of the work that you're doing. Stay strong and
make sure you're looking after yourself. We've got plenty of
work to do, and let's get cracking and make sure
we make it happen.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Thank you so so much.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
I really really appreciate you sharing and being on the
show today and just all the work you're doing for
our communities too, and your families and yeah, mobs who
are looking at this process from other parts of this continent,
watching the leadership that you're showing and the grace and
passion that you bring to this work.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Rus I really appreciate you. So thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
Tourn Deadly. In my language, we say well look, which
means for now, we never say goodbye. We always see
each other again, So.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Well look, thank you so much for listening, you mob.
If you are vibing this season of yarning up, then
please is head over to Applespotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts from. To show us some love, rate and review. Alternatively,
you can get in contact and give us some feedback
(51:16):
by visiting www. Dot Carolinekow dot com dot au
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.