In this episode, Caroline is joined by Grace Lillian Lee, a visionary Australian artist and leader deeply rooted in her Torres Strait Island heritage. With a Bachelor of Design in Fashion, Grace's journey as an artist has been nothing short of remarkable.
It was on a trip back home to Island/Country with her Grandmother in 2010 that Grace was introduced to the art of weaving. Since then she has specialised in Grasshopper weaving and has been using this traditional technique to create contemporary body sculptures and artworks that resonate with her cultural and storytelling.
Caroline and Grace yarn about the founding of First Nations Fashion + Design, a not-for-profit organisation dedicated to promoting cultural expression and representation within the fashion and design sectors. Hear about her collaborations with Indigenous communities and how she is helping to create strong, creative networks.
Excitedly, Grace also shared plans of expanding her creative practice in 2024, launching her own line of wearable art and one of a kind Torres Strait Islander handmade necklaces.
To follow Grace visit her Instagram page here, or visit her website to browse her incredible work
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show!
Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here!
We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, pre and emerging.
This podcast was brought to you by On Track Studio.
For advertising opportunities please email hello@ontrackstudio.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to Yarning Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
proud barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
(00:30):
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the rundery people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
and always will be unseated aboriginal and tourist Red islander Land.
(00:53):
Welcome back to Yarning Up, You Mob. Today, I have
the honor of sitting down with an exceptionally multi faceted,
multi talented creative artists, producer, someone who's making waves in community,
bringing traditional cultural practices to our mainstream stages in many,
(01:14):
many facets. So I'm so excited to introduce you to
my next guest, Grace Lillian Lee. Welcome to Yarning Out.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hi, Caroline, thank you so much for having me and
thank you for such a lovely introduction.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Now it strikes me looking where you're dialing in from.
You kind of look like you might actually be in
a factory warehouse designed space lair. Where are you joining
us from today?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I'm calling you from Gimoy Country in far North Queensland,
Cans and we're in our.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Faith that we call the Hub at the moment.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It's a bit of a shed space between First Nations
fashion and design and also my own practice.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
How wonderful. My family is from Mathoden, Innisfaul for about
forty minutes from Goomoy, So yeah, it's beautiful country up.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
There, beautiful and like it's a bit cold here at
the moment, which is only like a couple of degrees
less than usual, and we were all wearing jumpers, so
we're happy about that. But I'm pretty sure it's like
twenty four degrees but we're cold.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It's certainly getting very very icy here in Melbourne, which
is a good excuse to just nestle up and suit
season and hibernation. Yeah, as we do on this show,
we always like to start to get to know a
bit about you and your personal story.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
So I'm a local cans girl, born and bred, but
I in twenty ten I took my grandmother back to
the Torres Straits where she hadn't been for forty seven years,
and this for me was a big part of my
learnings and my connecting.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
To who I am and where I come from.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
For me, at that time, I was studying fashion, and
the best way I knew how to react and respond
to this was through design and creation, and I was
really fortunate that some of my elders taught me how
to weave and really embrace me in knowing more about
my culture and my identity, which was something that it
(03:18):
wasn't a privilege I guess of my father's upbringing because
of the time that my grandmother there was just a
different time back in those days. It's something for me
that I felt I really needed to take the reins
and I wanted to be proud of that, and I
really wanted to share that through what I knew best,
and that was through fashion.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I guess that's how this all started for me.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
It was questions that I wanted answered, and I definitely
wanted to know more about where I come from and
what that meant to me and my family and my ancestors.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Basically, so this has been.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
A big journey because I guess it steered me into
places I never had a I would go because I
was able to be proud of who I am. I
think I was embraced into other communities to support their
narratives to be shown through fashion. That's how the fashion
performances began, and I guess why I kind of called
(04:16):
myself a curator of fashion performances, which started in twenty
thirteens at the cans In Digenous out there just kind
of grew from there.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's nice to get an insight into where we all are.
You know, we all have different cultural journeys as well,
and it's beautiful to hear that, you know, while you
were studying and doing your doctorate in design and fashion,
that you were able to go home and connect with
your people. The Tori Strade Islanders. I understand you're from
(04:46):
the Miriam Mayor people.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, so where a part of the eastern islands of
the Torres Strait. My father was born on Thursday Island,
but my grandmother came from Murray Islands. I haven't, unfortunately
been to Murray Island, have been to Arab which is
very close, but it's definitely one of my dreams that
I have to do and as a life goal to
go back to Murray Island, but we just got back
(05:09):
from TI. We were up at Horn and Thursday Island,
just reconnecting with family, and I think it's something that
I need to spend more time up there, you know,
when you're home, and I think I definitely want to
spend more time and be with my dad as well.
To bring him up there as well. I think will
be really a good journey to continue.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
We sort of have this sort of philosophy at our work,
Black Waddel that you know, country and being with our
elders is really our greatest teacher, our greatest guide, our
greatest mentors, and so yeah, to be able to go
back and to share that with your family, and I
guess to draw strength and knowledge from your tourist right
(05:52):
island a heritage into your creative pursuits and working with
First Nations community for this explosion at First Nation Fashion
and Design, which is really exciting. Is beautiful to see
this amalgamation of your journey professionally and culturally. With that
in mind, I'm wondering if maybe we start there in
(06:13):
thinking about, yeah, what it is you've learned in going home,
and I'd love to sort of unpack what the grasshopper
weave technique is I'm wondering if you could share with
our listeners. Yeah, some of the things and learnings that
you have learnt in your cultural practices, and then how
(06:34):
it is you've been able to transcend those traditional weaving
and those traditional stories into First Nations design.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
So it was in two thousand and ten when I
started weaving because I connected with an elder of mine,
uncle Ken Thaday, who really took me under his wing.
He saw something in me that I guess I don't
know if I saw it in myself, but he was
very encouraging of me to pursue knowing more about my
(07:05):
culture but seeing it through fashion because at the time,
I was in my final year of fashion design. And
he has been this cultural beacon in my life and
I'm very grateful that he's still here and he's still
very supportive of everything that I'm doing, and he's definitely
a guide for me. So he taught me this weaving
(07:26):
technique and it's commonly done with coconut palm fronds as
ornamental decoration for celebration.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Generally that you make the fish.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And grasshoppers, and they're just like the basic things you
learn as children, and I wanted to see what that
looked like through a different fabrication, and I started playing
and using different materials and exploring all the different weaves
with different fabrications, but realizing that there was something truly
(07:56):
special about the grasshopper and that the repetition of this technique,
this simple technique of the belly of the grasshopper, it
was something I wanted to continue doing. And so I
started making these lengths and realized that it was something
quite malneable that I could put on the body, and
it grew from there. It took a couple of years
(08:18):
to get to the point where I was like I
realized it could be an adornment, because before it was
more a part of the whole body and at fashion
where like exploring what that looks like. I didn't realize
that this simple, humble technique would really catapult me into
a place that, again, I could have never imagined for myself.
(08:38):
Because for me, not only is it about that the
beauty of the technique and how tactile and how it moves,
but the reality of it is more that it was
a healing process for me and my family because it
enabled me to have conversations of reconnection and the continuation
of my culture. For me, it was something to be
(09:00):
proud of and something that I'm celebrating this part of
me that was, I guess something that unfortunately it was
suppressed in my father's upbringing. So you know, they weren't
loud and proud, and they weren't It was just a
different time for me. I felt like my dad could
have really said who he is and not to be
afraid of that, but back in those days he didn't.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Where the fear came from, but I think it came
from all different directions. Like I learned more recently that
on our Chinese side that you know, they didn't really
accept my grandparents' children because they were like black Asians,
so it was like conflicting for them. Things like that
that you just don't comprehend. I don't know what that
(09:46):
must feel like for my father. So I feel like
we're in a time we're freer in the point that
we can have these conversations and we can shout to
the rooftops who we are and connect with that. And
I definitely think going home back to the Torres Shard
Islands is integral family just so embracing, and we want
(10:08):
to keep our culture strong. So the only way to
do that is to stay connected and to keep living
and breathing our culture.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I think you're right for our parents' generations through like
stolen generations, assimilation policies and just this sort of lack
of proximity to cultural practices and healing. You know, we
are living in such a different time where we have
the privilege and the honor to go back home and
(10:37):
to be reacquainted with dormant practices which have just been
we sort of call them sleeping, you know, for a
little while, and how lucky it is for us to
in this contemporary world have access to that. But then
there's also it's met with this sort of yeah, sense
of sadness, in trepidation and duality that yes, sometimes our
folks didn't get that. For so many of our folks,
(10:59):
it was legal to practice culture. It was illegal to
you know, speak language and dance and grasshopper weave or
do your weaving practices. And so it's kind of beautiful
that we get this opportunity to go back, but yeah,
there's more to be done, of course, always, but that
we're all on this journey, and I guess just hearing
what you're saying, like it's sort of like a metas
(11:19):
story within a story, that it is this weaving of ideas, right,
Like it's a weaving of your healing, it's a weaving
of your cultural connection, your families, your kin, and then
kind of weaving it into this adornment and things that
people can wear on their bodies. And how special that
is to be able to create these beautiful grasshopper weaving
(11:43):
body sculptures. I mean, it's just incredible. It's incredible, and
I imagine that that would have been such a sacred
journey for you.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, definitely, And I feel very grateful for the opportunities
it has provided to me. I think it's created a
gateway for people to really see and acknowledge tor Shrait
Island fashion and design. I feel like we don't have
as much representation, but we are there and there are
a lot of us. There are incredible weavers from the
(12:15):
Torres Straits and their works are stunning. So I do
feel like my work hopefully informs to go explore more
and have a look and check out who's out there,
because there's beautiful beating and weaving and textiles and designers.
So I'm definitely a big advocate for tor Shit Island
(12:35):
fashion design, but obviously I've also been working in the
mainland Australia Aboriginal art centers and First Nations designers across
the country as well.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's almost this beautiful sort of cosmic spiritual whatever your persuasion,
I guess in this notion that you went into formally
do some study in design and fashion and then going
home is what gifted you the knowledge your work in fashion.
You have founded First Nations Fashion Design, which is a national,
(13:06):
non for profit Indigenous corporation that aims to promote cultural expression,
increase representation and celebrate First Nations designers and artists within
the fashion and design sectors, and that you know has
been instrumental in things like Melbourne Fashion Week and other
fashion shows across so called Australia. It's got a lot
of international listeners. Just help us understand a little bit
(13:29):
around the First Nations and fashion scene generally in Australia.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Fashion has been brewing for a very long time and
I think stories have been told through whether it be
collaborations or from individual designers that are creating their own labels,
through textiles.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
And women's and men's wear and then adornments.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But we're definitely seeing a shift in the space and
the last I would say five years or four or
five years where the sector, in terms of the Australian
fashion sector are definitely taking more notice of what indigenous
design is and not even just the designs, but also
the indigenous fashion sector of makeup artists, hairstylists, models, photographers, videographers,
(14:19):
you name it. There's definitely a big shift in having
more representation and black narratives being shared and opinions and
views of how that looks and how that might shape
and has shaped the Australian fashion industry. They're finally a
time where there is some space that's been created for us.
(14:40):
But I do think that, as you know, there's always
more to be done. That's something that First Nations Fashion
and Design is very committed to and we're committed to
further developing providing a space for innovation and upskilling and.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Preservation of our culture.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
So at the moment where it looks like we're a
bit in silo because we're doing smaller projects and not
the big, flashy runways like everyone continues to do, which
is beautiful, and we love celebrating and supporting all these platforms,
but we're really trying to set up an Indigenous organization
that is able to continue to support First Nations people
(15:21):
in this space through education, through pathways and opportunities that
we feel will create a long lasting ripple effect to
the next generations to really create these successful people in
the sector.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
So and there are there are already those people.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
But I know when I was studying a fashion design
I was the only Indigenous student there at the time,
and I was longing for a space that I could
be me and have these conversations and preserve and innovate
and discuss what is indigenous to design. So the question
(16:02):
that you asked about what is the landscape, It's continuing
to be evolved as time goes on, and I think
that that's the exciting part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I guess it's kind of and I'm going to leave
some brands behind. So I'll preface this point by saying
that there are so many black brands, designers, artists, creative storytellers, entrepreneurs,
you name it. You know, Black fathers are inherently creative people.
And it's not just pouring in design onto a piece
of clothing, it's either something that is from your traditional practice,
(16:34):
it's a story. It could be a political narrative. There's
so much more than just a fabric or a textile
or what the eye can see. When I think about it,
I'll use an example here in numb You know we've
got you know, I could deck myself out from head
to toe in all black brands and in the lat's
probably with only within the last five years, everything from
(16:55):
hat to earrings to you name it. You know, we
could go to places like clothing the Gaps or gam
and Threads or House of Dizzy and just be decked out.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
The other day I was at a market. I bought
some beautiful Aboriginal designed Licra, beautiful buttery Licra activewear, and
I have been stopped everywhere I go. Where'd you get
those from? And that was from Amber day. So Karna,
there is this beautiful explosion. It's nice to see that
it's a changing and evolving landscape. I want to ask
(17:28):
you about when you talked about First Nations fashion and
designs role. I guess in some of those ways about
education and pathways, you know, if someone wanted to get
some support in maybe thinking about a career in this.
You know, what sort of things do you envision that
they could potentially engage with you on or in the
future engage with you on.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
If I was doing my time again and I'd just
reach out so as many people as possible, especially people
that you admire or are interested in regards to how
they run their business model or they're designs. In regards
to the charity, First Nations Fashion and Design, we are
working on a program where there'll be these opportunities. It
(18:11):
is really hard to start up a charity. Yeah, it's
really There's a lot of administration, managing the board. It's
exciting though. I think it really is something that will
have longevity and we'll be able to it will evolve
as well with time, and I'm excited for what it
(18:35):
will have to offer in the future. Now i'ma is
definitely doing an incredible job of representing and showcasing black design.
Whenever I come there, I feel very at home because
Melbourne is actually where I studied fashion and design at
r MIT, and when I was there, I don't recall
there being anything really in terms of a place to
(18:56):
go where I felt like you know family, and so
now when I go there, it's like you said, you
can pop into Christie at House a Dizzy, go to
Clothing the Gaps, which is amazing, and then obviously going
to Mabu Mabu and then there's cocktail places like it's
just so good.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It's incredible that we are seeing this beautiful explosion of
creative and entrepreneurial expression. I mean even for Christmas last year,
I got there. We've got a store in nam in Preston.
If people are listening and want to go by, shout
out to Emma and Kiniela Erk. They're based in Preston,
and we were able to get all, like all of
(19:36):
our gifts, every single present from a black owned shop.
And I think the thing that's, you know, very interesting
is about you know, when you're supporting a black business,
you're not just supporting their bottom line, You're supporting the
communities that they work with. They you know, are so
social justice, they'll reinvest and you know when you support
one black folly supporting hundreds of us. So go out
(19:58):
and buy some black design. If there's anyone listening who
hasn't got a pair of Houses Dizzies or any of
the amazing brands. Please do that.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Will be back you mob right after this short break, I.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Guess circling back to you, Titter and all of the
things you do. As I say, you have such an
extensive and impressive bio and things that you have accomplished,
and I just want to shout that out. Some of
your work and you're moving away from fashion and into
some of your more artworks and collaborative pieces. And the
(20:47):
design that you have been doing has been acquired by
you know, lots of leading and national international galleries. You know,
you've worked with Cancer Gallery, the Jam Factory here in
which is around the corner from me, University of Virginia.
You've worked with the Australian Institute of Aboriginal Arts and Sciences.
(21:08):
You know, you have a really impressive repertoire. But I
want to ask you, Sis, you know what has been
I guess asides from the beautiful work with the Grasshopper weaving,
you know what has been I guess some of your
major standout projects that have really sort of shaped who
you are.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I would say, Oh, there's been a few.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
One particular was a really special collection of three pieces
where I showcased three different materialities. So one was the past,
the present, and the future. So one was done all
in palm fronds, and then the present was done in
the current cotton that I use, and then the future
(21:53):
was done in like this slastic perspexive fabrication.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
But what was really.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Special about that is that it was the one and
only shoot that I did with my grandmother. And so
for me, that was like really special because this for
me is all about this is a whole homage to
my grandmother, really, and so I shot it on my
cousin So, her granddaughter and her mother so, which was
Grandma's daughter, and then Grandma, and it was I'm going
(22:22):
to be most talking about it. Yeah, we did a
photo shoot of the three of them, and it just
was really beautiful to have that opportunity to shoot my
grandmother in my work to celebrate her culture, which is
my culture. But something that I I think as an
older woman, I think she understood what I was doing.
But at the same time, she didn't talk too much
(22:44):
about it. All her sisters did to me and her
children did, but not so much Grandma. And maybe that's
because it's her lived experience and maybe there's too much
pain there. But Unfortunately she's past. Now everything that I
have done is to date as being for her. Sorry,
(23:04):
So yeah, I think that, like it's really special to
be able to have something like a practice, to be
able to continue those memories and those celebrations of something
that in the past.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Wasn't so celebrated.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
So yeah, it's a very means a lot to me
my practice, and it definitely is something that, like I said,
I've kind of committed my whole life to this space
and it's kind of gone hand in hand with obviously
the charity because of how I got to do this
for me, I feel like that has been like the
flow on effect. Hopefully it's a place that others can
(23:42):
also find peace in connecting with their cultures through fashion,
which lots of people are continuing to do. But I
just felt that there needed to be something that was
quite independent and that was its own first nations run
and led corporation.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Well, we are so grateful that you've been able to, yeah,
self determine some of your own future and then are
helping others self determine theirs by giving back, you know,
giving back to your family, being back to your community,
and giving back to mobs. So that they can practice
this beautiful, ancient and contemporary practice of a fashion design,
(24:22):
art and storytelling. You know it's beautiful, So thank you
for your labor and what a special special project.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well it's been it's been fourteen years since I learned
how to weave, so one woven necklace has fifteen meters
in it and we are about to launch our first
commercial range. Because it's always it's been a hobby and
it's been something that I would stock in Galerus when
(24:51):
I was able and had the time. Whereas now, thankfully
to Arts Queensland and their support, we've been able to
recruit a small little team who I work with and
we're developing our first range of the woven necklaces that
will be dropped very soon. We don't have an exact
(25:12):
date yet but in the coming month, and that will
be a very limited edition of pieces. We would like
them to be acquired the sense that it's a piece
of artwork and it's a collectible in a sense because
it's not mass produced. They're all handmade by me. At
the moment, we've rebranded and finally have beautiful packaging with
(25:38):
an authenticity card and each piece will be numbered so
they will be very specific to knowing the provenance of
where the pieces will be going, and they'll be collectibles.
We're just dropping a range of small core colors and
that'll be our first drop of limited edition pieces, and
(25:58):
then we'll have another drop will come later in the
year which will be a line to my exhibition.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Wow, that's so special. I mean fifteen meters long. What's
the time and labor that it would take to weave
one of these beauties.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It's good you asked that question, and the other day
I was like, I need to stop answering it.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Just because and then then we.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Were laughing that I should answer that question with that
I've been weaving for fourteen years.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, that's how long it takes exactly right, master a
craft such as weaving.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Absolutely, Yeah, I definitely have been able to master it.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I guess I thought it.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, I've never called myself a master weaver, but in
this specific weaving, I've definitely I feel like I've mastered it,
and so I am weaving everywhere at the moment because
of this exhibition.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I have so much weaving. It's all around me.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
There's a couple of questions that come up when we
think about adorning something as meaningful as you know, a
woven collectible piece that has taken fourteen years to develop
some sense of mastery, and you know, and to hear
that this is a practice that's been handed down through
you know, your Arab Island ancestry. It's so so special.
(27:19):
I mean, is this piece available for non aboriginal or allies?
I think it's an important question to ask because people
always do feel like is this for me? And you know,
it'd be nice to sort of just hear from you
what your thoughts are and then maybe where we can
possibly acquire such a beautiful collectible piece once it's.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Out for me, I guess, to be honest, I feel
like this is a technique that is gifted to me,
and then it's something that has evolved into this neck
piece or color, and I find it's a really great
piece to be able to share who we are and
for that to be celebrated and for those conversations to
(28:02):
live on. So I really feel strongly about these definitely
for anyone and everyone, as long as they know where
it comes from and those conversations are being had. So
that's really important because I feel like, yeah, I want
people to know about the Torrow Strait Islands and how
beautiful and how rich we are in terms of our culture,
(28:25):
our land. But we have so much to care for
as well, So there just needs to be a lot
of awareness that we exist. I think sometimes we get
a little bit forgotten about really being so far north.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, I love and appreciate that. I think it's always
the sentiment in which something is owned or worn, and
that it's much more than just a fashion statement. It
is access to ancient knowledge that needs to be understood
and respected. And like you say, that providence where it
comes from, needs to be understood. I know that whenever
(29:01):
I'm got some handmade pieces that my family have gifted me,
and even just got this jacket that I got custom
designed by Regina Ginny Girl Gang, and every time I
put it on, I feel like lucky. You I know, well, yeah,
I mean, we work together to design it and I
paid for it, and it was a beautiful sort of
(29:22):
it was a beautiful exchange. But you know, every time
I put it on, the feeling that it invokes within
me and this like it feels like it's a shield,
it feels like it's an artifact, it feels like, all right,
I'm strong, I'm deadly, I'm you know, lookout world, you know.
So I think it's it's so much more than just
putting on these pieces. It's like you say, they're respect
(29:43):
for where it comes from. Well, well, I can't wait
to see, Yeah, where this collection emerges. Is there a
launch period? Is there somewhere we can direct our listeners to,
because I know there'll be people asking me questions.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Oh, Carol, I I wish I had an exact date.
It will be in the coming week, so I would
say definitely within the next three weeks, so it'll be
out in May, but definitely if you're following mostly on
our Instagram or sign up as a subscriber on our website,
because that's really we might drop a line before the announcement,
(30:22):
so if you want to get some heads up before
we actually go live, that's the place to go to.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
It's all about to happen, which is super exciting, but
it's also.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
It's a bit of a strange world of art and
fashion and trying to navigate what that looks like.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I think, yeah, these things are so not binary for us. Hey,
Like it's contemporary and ancient knowledge, it's operating just fashion
in a business, there's a sales like I feel you,
I feel you. You know, you're kind of always oscillating,
always oscillating. So but I think it's really beautiful. We'll
pop it in the show notes because it's where people
can follow along with the education, all the work you're doing,
(31:03):
where they can follow along with your beautiful woven collectible designs,
and just some of the stuff you're doing in your
personal launch, which I know is coming out soon as well.
I wanted to ask a question around how do you
balance it all? You know, one of the things we're
really passionate about at Black Wattle is looking at you know,
burnout and sometimes when we're doing things we love and
(31:25):
our spirits in there and we're pouring from our stories
and communities and families. Yeah, we have a propensity to
give and give and give. So I want to just ask,
you know, what sort of person, what sort of practice,
what sort of lights you up and helps you sort
of balance all of these creative pursuits.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Oh goodness me.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
I think it's a very tough question because I think
that we all well I can't speak on every behalf
of everyone, but I know, for myself. I didn't have
a lot of balance, and I definitely myself into the
ground and definitely experience burnout, which is definitely detrimental to
(32:07):
your health.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
I was really pushing myself like I did, but I didn't,
if that makes sense. So I think that definitely taking
the time to have family and friends and healthy food
around you and exercise and meditation swims down at the
creek is like so important and I think even more
(32:32):
so that's the learning that I'm still going through, but
it's definitely something that has been brought attention and come
to the forefront of my life. Of having more balance
is just integral. And unfortunately I don't have little babies yet,
so you know, if you want to have all the things,
you've got to find the place that you can.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I guess just just stop.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Get out on Country is a really good one.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
Go home.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I really appreciate that. I really appreciate the honesty too,
you know, even in my like doing this work, and
you know, we get dubbed like a first nation burnout expert,
which I have real strong it works about because I
don't feel like I'm really I'm a student and learner
of life. I'm not an expert really in anything, but
even it's a lifelong practice for all of us, even myself.
(33:21):
We get tested in new ways and we need new
ways to look after ourselves. So I appreciate the honesty.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of sisters who are walking,
probably cooking for their kids or listening in their car
going uh huh m hmm. Yeah. I'm still working it
out too, so I appreciate.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
That we're going to learn to say no, hey.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, unapologetically as well. You know, no no is a
full sentence. Well, Grace, thank you so much for your
time today. There's so much that we could have covered.
Is there anything else that you want to share about,
you know, anything that you can share I guess about
what's coming up or anything else that you wanted to
(33:59):
to mentor today.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
No, I think just that, like this year's been a
great year. I'm excited for what's to come. I'm super
excited for what our team has been creating. And definitely
there's some very cool opportunities that have come in our
little realm, which is super exciting. But yeah, we're still
(34:22):
working obviously with the charity as well, and FNFD has
still got some things that are coming out up, so
both of the organizations are you know, we're heading in
different directions, but I feel like we've become like teenagers
maybe growing up a little bit before we were just
having fun, whereas now we're still having fun, but it's
(34:42):
a little bit more focused. We're excited, so keep following
the journey if you are following or check us out.
We love what we're doing and very excited that it's
all about to come out, which is exciting too.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
The birthing, the new creation and the evolution of you
as an individual as a sister, but then also as
your businesses in FNND and also your own personal lines
and launch it will pop Grace's website, all of her
socials and handles in our show notes so you can
follow along. We're in May now, so you know, get
(35:22):
to sort of see some of these beautiful launchers and collections.
So thank you so much for being here today and
sharing your time and being so generous and sharing your
personal stories too. I really really admire and appreciate it.
You know, Black stories medicine for us, that's how we
make sense of the world. It's how we make sense
of each other and so yeah, to be able to
(35:44):
connect with you in that way is really special. So
thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
So much, Thank you, Caroline, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
You mob.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
If you are vibing this season of Yarning up, then
please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts from to show us some love, rate, and review. Alternatively,
you can get in contact and give us some feedback
by visiting www dot Caroline Coow dot com dou
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to Yarning Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
proud barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
(00:30):
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the rundery people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
and always will be unseated aboriginal and tourist Red islander Land.
(00:53):
Welcome back to Yarning Up, You Mob. Today, I have
the honor of sitting down with an exceptionally multi faceted,
multi talented creative artists, producer, someone who's making waves in community,
bringing traditional cultural practices to our mainstream stages in many,
(01:14):
many facets. So I'm so excited to introduce you to
my next guest, Grace Lillian Lee. Welcome to Yarning Out.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hi, Caroline, thank you so much for having me and
thank you for such a lovely introduction.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Now it strikes me looking where you're dialing in from.
You kind of look like you might actually be in
a factory warehouse designed space lair. Where are you joining
us from today?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I'm calling you from Gimoy Country in far North Queensland,
Cans and we're in our.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Faith that we call the Hub at the moment.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It's a bit of a shed space between First Nations
fashion and design and also my own practice.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
How wonderful. My family is from Mathoden, Innisfaul for about
forty minutes from Goomoy, So yeah, it's beautiful country up.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
There, beautiful and like it's a bit cold here at
the moment, which is only like a couple of degrees
less than usual, and we were all wearing jumpers, so
we're happy about that. But I'm pretty sure it's like
twenty four degrees but we're cold.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It's certainly getting very very icy here in Melbourne, which
is a good excuse to just nestle up and suit
season and hibernation. Yeah, as we do on this show,
we always like to start to get to know a
bit about you and your personal story.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
So I'm a local cans girl, born and bred, but
I in twenty ten I took my grandmother back to
the Torres Straits where she hadn't been for forty seven years,
and this for me was a big part of my
learnings and my connecting.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
To who I am and where I come from.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
For me, at that time, I was studying fashion, and
the best way I knew how to react and respond
to this was through design and creation, and I was
really fortunate that some of my elders taught me how
to weave and really embrace me in knowing more about
my culture and my identity, which was something that it
(03:18):
wasn't a privilege I guess of my father's upbringing because
of the time that my grandmother there was just a
different time back in those days. It's something for me
that I felt I really needed to take the reins
and I wanted to be proud of that, and I
really wanted to share that through what I knew best,
and that was through fashion.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I guess that's how this all started for me.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
It was questions that I wanted answered, and I definitely
wanted to know more about where I come from and
what that meant to me and my family and my ancestors.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Basically, so this has been.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
A big journey because I guess it steered me into
places I never had a I would go because I
was able to be proud of who I am. I
think I was embraced into other communities to support their
narratives to be shown through fashion. That's how the fashion
performances began, and I guess why I kind of called
(04:16):
myself a curator of fashion performances, which started in twenty
thirteens at the cans In Digenous out there just kind
of grew from there.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's nice to get an insight into where we all are.
You know, we all have different cultural journeys as well,
and it's beautiful to hear that, you know, while you
were studying and doing your doctorate in design and fashion,
that you were able to go home and connect with
your people. The Tori Strade Islanders. I understand you're from
(04:46):
the Miriam Mayor people.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, so where a part of the eastern islands of
the Torres Strait. My father was born on Thursday Island,
but my grandmother came from Murray Islands. I haven't, unfortunately
been to Murray Island, have been to Arab which is
very close, but it's definitely one of my dreams that
I have to do and as a life goal to
go back to Murray Island, but we just got back
(05:09):
from TI. We were up at Horn and Thursday Island,
just reconnecting with family, and I think it's something that
I need to spend more time up there, you know,
when you're home, and I think I definitely want to
spend more time and be with my dad as well.
To bring him up there as well. I think will
be really a good journey to continue.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
We sort of have this sort of philosophy at our work,
Black Waddel that you know, country and being with our
elders is really our greatest teacher, our greatest guide, our
greatest mentors, and so yeah, to be able to go
back and to share that with your family, and I
guess to draw strength and knowledge from your tourist right
(05:52):
island a heritage into your creative pursuits and working with
First Nations community for this explosion at First Nation Fashion
and Design, which is really exciting. Is beautiful to see
this amalgamation of your journey professionally and culturally. With that
in mind, I'm wondering if maybe we start there in
(06:13):
thinking about, yeah, what it is you've learned in going home,
and I'd love to sort of unpack what the grasshopper
weave technique is I'm wondering if you could share with
our listeners. Yeah, some of the things and learnings that
you have learnt in your cultural practices, and then how
(06:34):
it is you've been able to transcend those traditional weaving
and those traditional stories into First Nations design.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
So it was in two thousand and ten when I
started weaving because I connected with an elder of mine,
uncle Ken Thaday, who really took me under his wing.
He saw something in me that I guess I don't
know if I saw it in myself, but he was
very encouraging of me to pursue knowing more about my
(07:05):
culture but seeing it through fashion because at the time,
I was in my final year of fashion design. And
he has been this cultural beacon in my life and
I'm very grateful that he's still here and he's still
very supportive of everything that I'm doing, and he's definitely
a guide for me. So he taught me this weaving
(07:26):
technique and it's commonly done with coconut palm fronds as
ornamental decoration for celebration.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Generally that you make the fish.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And grasshoppers, and they're just like the basic things you
learn as children, and I wanted to see what that
looked like through a different fabrication, and I started playing
and using different materials and exploring all the different weaves
with different fabrications, but realizing that there was something truly
(07:56):
special about the grasshopper and that the repetition of this technique,
this simple technique of the belly of the grasshopper, it
was something I wanted to continue doing. And so I
started making these lengths and realized that it was something
quite malneable that I could put on the body, and
it grew from there. It took a couple of years
(08:18):
to get to the point where I was like I
realized it could be an adornment, because before it was
more a part of the whole body and at fashion
where like exploring what that looks like. I didn't realize
that this simple, humble technique would really catapult me into
a place that, again, I could have never imagined for myself.
(08:38):
Because for me, not only is it about that the
beauty of the technique and how tactile and how it moves,
but the reality of it is more that it was
a healing process for me and my family because it
enabled me to have conversations of reconnection and the continuation
of my culture. For me, it was something to be
(09:00):
proud of and something that I'm celebrating this part of
me that was, I guess something that unfortunately it was
suppressed in my father's upbringing. So you know, they weren't
loud and proud, and they weren't It was just a
different time for me. I felt like my dad could
have really said who he is and not to be
afraid of that, but back in those days he didn't.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Where the fear came from, but I think it came
from all different directions. Like I learned more recently that
on our Chinese side that you know, they didn't really
accept my grandparents' children because they were like black Asians,
so it was like conflicting for them. Things like that
that you just don't comprehend. I don't know what that
(09:46):
must feel like for my father. So I feel like
we're in a time we're freer in the point that
we can have these conversations and we can shout to
the rooftops who we are and connect with that. And
I definitely think going home back to the Torres Shard
Islands is integral family just so embracing, and we want
(10:08):
to keep our culture strong. So the only way to
do that is to stay connected and to keep living
and breathing our culture.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I think you're right for our parents' generations through like
stolen generations, assimilation policies and just this sort of lack
of proximity to cultural practices and healing. You know, we
are living in such a different time where we have
the privilege and the honor to go back home and
(10:37):
to be reacquainted with dormant practices which have just been
we sort of call them sleeping, you know, for a
little while, and how lucky it is for us to
in this contemporary world have access to that. But then
there's also it's met with this sort of yeah, sense
of sadness, in trepidation and duality that yes, sometimes our
folks didn't get that. For so many of our folks,
(10:59):
it was legal to practice culture. It was illegal to
you know, speak language and dance and grasshopper weave or
do your weaving practices. And so it's kind of beautiful
that we get this opportunity to go back, but yeah,
there's more to be done, of course, always, but that
we're all on this journey, and I guess just hearing
what you're saying, like it's sort of like a metas
(11:19):
story within a story, that it is this weaving of ideas, right,
Like it's a weaving of your healing, it's a weaving
of your cultural connection, your families, your kin, and then
kind of weaving it into this adornment and things that
people can wear on their bodies. And how special that
is to be able to create these beautiful grasshopper weaving
(11:43):
body sculptures. I mean, it's just incredible. It's incredible, and
I imagine that that would have been such a sacred
journey for you.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, definitely, And I feel very grateful for the opportunities
it has provided to me. I think it's created a
gateway for people to really see and acknowledge tor Shrait
Island fashion and design. I feel like we don't have
as much representation, but we are there and there are
a lot of us. There are incredible weavers from the
(12:15):
Torres Straits and their works are stunning. So I do
feel like my work hopefully informs to go explore more
and have a look and check out who's out there,
because there's beautiful beating and weaving and textiles and designers.
So I'm definitely a big advocate for tor Shit Island
(12:35):
fashion design, but obviously I've also been working in the
mainland Australia Aboriginal art centers and First Nations designers across
the country as well.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's almost this beautiful sort of cosmic spiritual whatever your persuasion,
I guess in this notion that you went into formally
do some study in design and fashion and then going
home is what gifted you the knowledge your work in fashion.
You have founded First Nations Fashion Design, which is a national,
(13:06):
non for profit Indigenous corporation that aims to promote cultural expression,
increase representation and celebrate First Nations designers and artists within
the fashion and design sectors, and that you know has
been instrumental in things like Melbourne Fashion Week and other
fashion shows across so called Australia. It's got a lot
of international listeners. Just help us understand a little bit
(13:29):
around the First Nations and fashion scene generally in Australia.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Fashion has been brewing for a very long time and
I think stories have been told through whether it be
collaborations or from individual designers that are creating their own labels,
through textiles.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
And women's and men's wear and then adornments.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But we're definitely seeing a shift in the space and
the last I would say five years or four or
five years where the sector, in terms of the Australian
fashion sector are definitely taking more notice of what indigenous
design is and not even just the designs, but also
the indigenous fashion sector of makeup artists, hairstylists, models, photographers, videographers,
(14:19):
you name it. There's definitely a big shift in having
more representation and black narratives being shared and opinions and
views of how that looks and how that might shape
and has shaped the Australian fashion industry. They're finally a
time where there is some space that's been created for us.
(14:40):
But I do think that, as you know, there's always
more to be done. That's something that First Nations Fashion
and Design is very committed to and we're committed to
further developing providing a space for innovation and upskilling and.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Preservation of our culture.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
So at the moment where it looks like we're a
bit in silo because we're doing smaller projects and not
the big, flashy runways like everyone continues to do, which
is beautiful, and we love celebrating and supporting all these platforms,
but we're really trying to set up an Indigenous organization
that is able to continue to support First Nations people
(15:21):
in this space through education, through pathways and opportunities that
we feel will create a long lasting ripple effect to
the next generations to really create these successful people in
the sector.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
So and there are there are already those people.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
But I know when I was studying a fashion design
I was the only Indigenous student there at the time,
and I was longing for a space that I could
be me and have these conversations and preserve and innovate
and discuss what is indigenous to design. So the question
(16:02):
that you asked about what is the landscape, It's continuing
to be evolved as time goes on, and I think
that that's the exciting part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I guess it's kind of and I'm going to leave
some brands behind. So I'll preface this point by saying
that there are so many black brands, designers, artists, creative storytellers, entrepreneurs,
you name it. You know, Black fathers are inherently creative people.
And it's not just pouring in design onto a piece
of clothing, it's either something that is from your traditional practice,
(16:34):
it's a story. It could be a political narrative. There's
so much more than just a fabric or a textile
or what the eye can see. When I think about it,
I'll use an example here in numb You know we've
got you know, I could deck myself out from head
to toe in all black brands and in the lat's
probably with only within the last five years, everything from
(16:55):
hat to earrings to you name it. You know, we
could go to places like clothing the Gaps or gam
and Threads or House of Dizzy and just be decked out.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
The other day I was at a market. I bought
some beautiful Aboriginal designed Licra, beautiful buttery Licra activewear, and
I have been stopped everywhere I go. Where'd you get
those from? And that was from Amber day. So Karna,
there is this beautiful explosion. It's nice to see that
it's a changing and evolving landscape. I want to ask
(17:28):
you about when you talked about First Nations fashion and
designs role. I guess in some of those ways about
education and pathways, you know, if someone wanted to get
some support in maybe thinking about a career in this.
You know, what sort of things do you envision that
they could potentially engage with you on or in the
future engage with you on.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
If I was doing my time again and I'd just
reach out so as many people as possible, especially people
that you admire or are interested in regards to how
they run their business model or they're designs. In regards
to the charity, First Nations Fashion and Design, we are
working on a program where there'll be these opportunities. It
(18:11):
is really hard to start up a charity. Yeah, it's
really There's a lot of administration, managing the board. It's
exciting though. I think it really is something that will
have longevity and we'll be able to it will evolve
as well with time, and I'm excited for what it
(18:35):
will have to offer in the future. Now i'ma is
definitely doing an incredible job of representing and showcasing black design.
Whenever I come there, I feel very at home because
Melbourne is actually where I studied fashion and design at
r MIT, and when I was there, I don't recall
there being anything really in terms of a place to
(18:56):
go where I felt like you know family, and so
now when I go there, it's like you said, you
can pop into Christie at House a Dizzy, go to
Clothing the Gaps, which is amazing, and then obviously going
to Mabu Mabu and then there's cocktail places like it's
just so good.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It's incredible that we are seeing this beautiful explosion of
creative and entrepreneurial expression. I mean even for Christmas last year,
I got there. We've got a store in nam in Preston.
If people are listening and want to go by, shout
out to Emma and Kiniela Erk. They're based in Preston,
and we were able to get all, like all of
(19:36):
our gifts, every single present from a black owned shop.
And I think the thing that's, you know, very interesting
is about you know, when you're supporting a black business,
you're not just supporting their bottom line, You're supporting the
communities that they work with. They you know, are so
social justice, they'll reinvest and you know when you support
one black folly supporting hundreds of us. So go out
(19:58):
and buy some black design. If there's anyone listening who
hasn't got a pair of Houses Dizzies or any of
the amazing brands. Please do that.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Will be back you mob right after this short break, I.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Guess circling back to you, Titter and all of the
things you do. As I say, you have such an
extensive and impressive bio and things that you have accomplished,
and I just want to shout that out. Some of
your work and you're moving away from fashion and into
some of your more artworks and collaborative pieces. And the
(20:47):
design that you have been doing has been acquired by
you know, lots of leading and national international galleries. You know,
you've worked with Cancer Gallery, the Jam Factory here in
which is around the corner from me, University of Virginia.
You've worked with the Australian Institute of Aboriginal Arts and Sciences.
(21:08):
You know, you have a really impressive repertoire. But I
want to ask you, Sis, you know what has been
I guess asides from the beautiful work with the Grasshopper weaving,
you know what has been I guess some of your
major standout projects that have really sort of shaped who
you are.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I would say, Oh, there's been a few.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
One particular was a really special collection of three pieces
where I showcased three different materialities. So one was the past,
the present, and the future. So one was done all
in palm fronds, and then the present was done in
the current cotton that I use, and then the future
(21:53):
was done in like this slastic perspexive fabrication.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
But what was really.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Special about that is that it was the one and
only shoot that I did with my grandmother. And so
for me, that was like really special because this for
me is all about this is a whole homage to
my grandmother, really, and so I shot it on my
cousin So, her granddaughter and her mother so, which was
Grandma's daughter, and then Grandma, and it was I'm going
(22:22):
to be most talking about it. Yeah, we did a
photo shoot of the three of them, and it just
was really beautiful to have that opportunity to shoot my
grandmother in my work to celebrate her culture, which is
my culture. But something that I I think as an
older woman, I think she understood what I was doing.
But at the same time, she didn't talk too much
(22:44):
about it. All her sisters did to me and her
children did, but not so much Grandma. And maybe that's
because it's her lived experience and maybe there's too much
pain there. But Unfortunately she's past. Now everything that I
have done is to date as being for her. Sorry,
(23:04):
So yeah, I think that, like it's really special to
be able to have something like a practice, to be
able to continue those memories and those celebrations of something
that in the past.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Wasn't so celebrated.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
So yeah, it's a very means a lot to me
my practice, and it definitely is something that, like I said,
I've kind of committed my whole life to this space
and it's kind of gone hand in hand with obviously
the charity because of how I got to do this
for me, I feel like that has been like the
flow on effect. Hopefully it's a place that others can
(23:42):
also find peace in connecting with their cultures through fashion,
which lots of people are continuing to do. But I
just felt that there needed to be something that was
quite independent and that was its own first nations run
and led corporation.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Well, we are so grateful that you've been able to, yeah,
self determine some of your own future and then are
helping others self determine theirs by giving back, you know,
giving back to your family, being back to your community,
and giving back to mobs. So that they can practice
this beautiful, ancient and contemporary practice of a fashion design,
(24:22):
art and storytelling. You know it's beautiful, So thank you
for your labor and what a special special project.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well it's been it's been fourteen years since I learned
how to weave, so one woven necklace has fifteen meters
in it and we are about to launch our first
commercial range. Because it's always it's been a hobby and
it's been something that I would stock in Galerus when
(24:51):
I was able and had the time. Whereas now, thankfully
to Arts Queensland and their support, we've been able to
recruit a small little team who I work with and
we're developing our first range of the woven necklaces that
will be dropped very soon. We don't have an exact
(25:12):
date yet but in the coming month, and that will
be a very limited edition of pieces. We would like
them to be acquired the sense that it's a piece
of artwork and it's a collectible in a sense because
it's not mass produced. They're all handmade by me. At
the moment, we've rebranded and finally have beautiful packaging with
(25:38):
an authenticity card and each piece will be numbered so
they will be very specific to knowing the provenance of
where the pieces will be going, and they'll be collectibles.
We're just dropping a range of small core colors and
that'll be our first drop of limited edition pieces, and
(25:58):
then we'll have another drop will come later in the
year which will be a line to my exhibition.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Wow, that's so special. I mean fifteen meters long. What's
the time and labor that it would take to weave
one of these beauties.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It's good you asked that question, and the other day
I was like, I need to stop answering it.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Just because and then then we.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Were laughing that I should answer that question with that
I've been weaving for fourteen years.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, that's how long it takes exactly right, master a
craft such as weaving.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Absolutely, Yeah, I definitely have been able to master it.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I guess I thought it.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, I've never called myself a master weaver, but in
this specific weaving, I've definitely I feel like I've mastered it,
and so I am weaving everywhere at the moment because
of this exhibition.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I have so much weaving. It's all around me.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
There's a couple of questions that come up when we
think about adorning something as meaningful as you know, a
woven collectible piece that has taken fourteen years to develop
some sense of mastery, and you know, and to hear
that this is a practice that's been handed down through
you know, your Arab Island ancestry. It's so so special.
(27:19):
I mean, is this piece available for non aboriginal or allies?
I think it's an important question to ask because people
always do feel like is this for me? And you know,
it'd be nice to sort of just hear from you
what your thoughts are and then maybe where we can
possibly acquire such a beautiful collectible piece once it's.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Out for me, I guess, to be honest, I feel
like this is a technique that is gifted to me,
and then it's something that has evolved into this neck
piece or color, and I find it's a really great
piece to be able to share who we are and
for that to be celebrated and for those conversations to
(28:02):
live on. So I really feel strongly about these definitely
for anyone and everyone, as long as they know where
it comes from and those conversations are being had. So
that's really important because I feel like, yeah, I want
people to know about the Torrow Strait Islands and how
beautiful and how rich we are in terms of our culture,
(28:25):
our land. But we have so much to care for
as well, So there just needs to be a lot
of awareness that we exist. I think sometimes we get
a little bit forgotten about really being so far north.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, I love and appreciate that. I think it's always
the sentiment in which something is owned or worn, and
that it's much more than just a fashion statement. It
is access to ancient knowledge that needs to be understood
and respected. And like you say, that providence where it
comes from, needs to be understood. I know that whenever
(29:01):
I'm got some handmade pieces that my family have gifted me,
and even just got this jacket that I got custom
designed by Regina Ginny Girl Gang, and every time I
put it on, I feel like lucky. You I know, well, yeah,
I mean, we work together to design it and I
paid for it, and it was a beautiful sort of
(29:22):
it was a beautiful exchange. But you know, every time
I put it on, the feeling that it invokes within
me and this like it feels like it's a shield,
it feels like it's an artifact, it feels like, all right,
I'm strong, I'm deadly, I'm you know, lookout world, you know.
So I think it's it's so much more than just
putting on these pieces. It's like you say, they're respect
(29:43):
for where it comes from. Well, well, I can't wait
to see, Yeah, where this collection emerges. Is there a
launch period? Is there somewhere we can direct our listeners to,
because I know there'll be people asking me questions.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Oh, Carol, I I wish I had an exact date.
It will be in the coming week, so I would
say definitely within the next three weeks, so it'll be
out in May, but definitely if you're following mostly on
our Instagram or sign up as a subscriber on our website,
because that's really we might drop a line before the announcement,
(30:22):
so if you want to get some heads up before
we actually go live, that's the place to go to.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
It's all about to happen, which is super exciting, but
it's also.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
It's a bit of a strange world of art and
fashion and trying to navigate what that looks like.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I think, yeah, these things are so not binary for us. Hey,
Like it's contemporary and ancient knowledge, it's operating just fashion
in a business, there's a sales like I feel you,
I feel you. You know, you're kind of always oscillating,
always oscillating. So but I think it's really beautiful. We'll
pop it in the show notes because it's where people
can follow along with the education, all the work you're doing,
(31:03):
where they can follow along with your beautiful woven collectible designs,
and just some of the stuff you're doing in your
personal launch, which I know is coming out soon as well.
I wanted to ask a question around how do you
balance it all? You know, one of the things we're
really passionate about at Black Wattle is looking at you know,
burnout and sometimes when we're doing things we love and
(31:25):
our spirits in there and we're pouring from our stories
and communities and families. Yeah, we have a propensity to
give and give and give. So I want to just ask,
you know, what sort of person, what sort of practice,
what sort of lights you up and helps you sort
of balance all of these creative pursuits.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Oh goodness me.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
I think it's a very tough question because I think
that we all well I can't speak on every behalf
of everyone, but I know, for myself. I didn't have
a lot of balance, and I definitely myself into the
ground and definitely experience burnout, which is definitely detrimental to
(32:07):
your health.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
I was really pushing myself like I did, but I didn't,
if that makes sense. So I think that definitely taking
the time to have family and friends and healthy food
around you and exercise and meditation swims down at the
creek is like so important and I think even more
(32:32):
so that's the learning that I'm still going through, but
it's definitely something that has been brought attention and come
to the forefront of my life. Of having more balance
is just integral. And unfortunately I don't have little babies yet,
so you know, if you want to have all the things,
you've got to find the place that you can.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I guess just just stop.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Get out on Country is a really good one.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
Go home.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I really appreciate that. I really appreciate the honesty too,
you know, even in my like doing this work, and
you know, we get dubbed like a first nation burnout expert,
which I have real strong it works about because I
don't feel like I'm really I'm a student and learner
of life. I'm not an expert really in anything, but
even it's a lifelong practice for all of us, even myself.
(33:21):
We get tested in new ways and we need new
ways to look after ourselves. So I appreciate the honesty.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of sisters who are walking,
probably cooking for their kids or listening in their car
going uh huh m hmm. Yeah. I'm still working it
out too, so I appreciate.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
That we're going to learn to say no, hey.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, unapologetically as well. You know, no no is a
full sentence. Well, Grace, thank you so much for your
time today. There's so much that we could have covered.
Is there anything else that you want to share about,
you know, anything that you can share I guess about
what's coming up or anything else that you wanted to
(33:59):
to mentor today.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
No, I think just that, like this year's been a
great year. I'm excited for what's to come. I'm super
excited for what our team has been creating. And definitely
there's some very cool opportunities that have come in our
little realm, which is super exciting. But yeah, we're still
(34:22):
working obviously with the charity as well, and FNFD has
still got some things that are coming out up, so
both of the organizations are you know, we're heading in
different directions, but I feel like we've become like teenagers
maybe growing up a little bit before we were just
having fun, whereas now we're still having fun, but it's
(34:42):
a little bit more focused. We're excited, so keep following
the journey if you are following or check us out.
We love what we're doing and very excited that it's
all about to come out, which is exciting too.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
The birthing, the new creation and the evolution of you
as an individual as a sister, but then also as
your businesses in FNND and also your own personal lines
and launch it will pop Grace's website, all of her
socials and handles in our show notes so you can
follow along. We're in May now, so you know, get
(35:22):
to sort of see some of these beautiful launchers and collections.
So thank you so much for being here today and
sharing your time and being so generous and sharing your
personal stories too. I really really admire and appreciate it.
You know, Black stories medicine for us, that's how we
make sense of the world. It's how we make sense
of each other and so yeah, to be able to
(35:44):
connect with you in that way is really special. So
thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
So much, Thank you, Caroline, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
You mob.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
If you are vibing this season of Yarning up, then
please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts from to show us some love, rate, and review. Alternatively,
you can get in contact and give us some feedback
by visiting www dot Caroline Coow dot com dou
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