Kirby Bentley - Representing First Nation's people on her Survivor journey

In this episode, Caroline is joined by Kirby Bentley, a proud Noongar woman and contestant in season 9 of Survivor. A lifelong lover of sports, Kirby played netball for Western Australia before switching fields to AFL, before becoming an AFLW coach. It’s this professional sporting background, along with the gifts of her culture, that she believes gave her the skills and the confidence to take on anything, even Survivor!

 

Caroline and Kirby chat about her goal of inspiring Aboriginal people through her television journey and how ultimately mob can accomplish anything! The pair also dive into Kirby’s Survivor strategy, from how she used the connection skills passed down from her ancestors to form bonds to those infamous tribal councils. They also yarn about her entertaining if not tumultuous collaboration with fellow contestant Feras Basal, and how their rivalry turned to an alliance to ultimately her eviction. Kirby shares her regrets about her time on the show and also gives Caroline the inside scoop on whether or not she’d go back in the Survivor game.

 

Kirby then catches Caroline and listeners up on her life post-Survivor and the incredible work she’s doing with her business Gnalla, an inclusive First Nations brand that encourages people to have the important conversations - even when no one is looking. The brand is all about celebrating identity, with the important goal of elevating suppressed voices. Whether you’re a self-proclaimed survivor fanatic like Caroline, or you’ve never seen an episode, you won’t want to miss out on this listen!

To follow Kirby visit her Instagram page here.

To check out Gnalla visit here.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show! 

Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here! 

We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, present and emerging.

This podcast was brought to you by On Track Studio.

www.ontrackstudio.com.au

@on.track.studio

 

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Podcast Unite Our Voices.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Welcome to Yannier, the podcast that showcases First Nations stories
and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's history
to work towards a better future. I'm your host, proud
barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,

(00:37):
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the Runderi people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
and always will be unseated aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.

(01:00):
I'm actually really nervous and excited and I feel like
today is going to be a really interesting and amazing conversation.
I have the privilege and honor of sitting down with
Kirby Bentley, the very impressive, cheeky strategic social gameplay mastermind

(01:23):
of season nine of Survivor the Rebels Verse Titans, and
it's so nice to be able to just sit down
with you today and find out a little bit more
about the sister that we saw on the screens, but
behind the screens, and of course to talk about your
incredible survivor experience.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
So thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Sis, no, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I love talking to MOB and I love talking to
other women as well. Like obviously Aboriginal women was all
spoken about. Actually I don't think it was that obvious,
but it was all I spoke about on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
So yeah, I'm looking forward to this.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, I'm so excited today.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
We have a million questions that we want to go
through today, but I guess yes, we always like to
start by, you know, really getting to know you, and
we saw so much of you on our screens. But
I want to open up by just sort of starting
with talking about you know, who you are, if you
could introduce yourself, how you like to be introduced, share
a little bit about your MOB, and a little bit

(02:20):
around your own personal story.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
So I am a younger woman from Mount Barker in
Western Australia. I think in the AFL world it's traditionally
known as the cracket country. I have two younger sisters
and both parents are younger as well. So my dad's
side of the family comes from Calgooley Catanning Mob that area,

(02:43):
and mum's the north like geraldon bit of yammage in
there as well.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
So I'm younger one guy yamajee, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I'm a proud black woman grew up in the country
and a bit of a tomboy as well. I wasn't
that articulate in school, Like, I really struggled in school.
I am a visual learner and hands on, but again,
I think a lot about people, like we're pretty cheeky.
So I used humor and that sort of engagement and
jokes and laughs so everything else to sort of interact.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
But yeah, I just really struggled in school as a
young kid.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
I think a lot of the teaching environments aren't set
up for mobile at all.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
People.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Hey, like learning is not a linear process. It's like
through yan it's hutching and for our more like you say,
it's like doing the thing.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, I think the system is failing a lot of
our people, Like we're missing out on so many opportunities
because we're perceived not to be as educated because of
our learning styles in a lot of ways. And I
learned that later in life, probably hitting mid twenties to
the late twenties, that I understood the way that I
actually learn and understand and it is visual and hands on.

(03:46):
I wish I knew what I knew now back then.
It's an old cliche saying, but things might be so different.
The way that I learned how to speak was just
watching people talk. Dabriel Punn is a good example of
young telling and storytelling and engaging in just his humor.
So he's told me how to speak, you know, I
don't think he even knows that himself.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
It's fascinating what we draw inspiration from and who we
draw inspiration from. I always like to think about not
what I want to do, but what person I want
to be, and look at people like the Devil Rupinders,
people like yourself. It's so nice to sort of learn
a bit more about your personal story and where you
come from. Because I understand that you have a huge
sports background. You spent like ten years playing netball, AFL

(04:29):
coach AFL playing. I read that you played in state
of origin. There's a Bentley Cup named in your Oh.
I thought it was really cool. Are your family all
sports people? Did you carve your own path in that respect?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Oh? I think naturally. Black fellows just can do anything.
And on the show, they were asking me if I
was an athlete. I just said, look, I'm black, I'm
good at everything, so don't again, you know. So I
grew up around sport and footy and country footy as well,
and when I was younger, being a tomboy, I wanted
to play AFL with Chris Lewis in the Tears and

(05:04):
you know, like in that era. But as a young girl,
obviously that wasn't possible at that time. So network was
the pathway that I went down, and I think it
saved me in being able to leave a small town
that is pretty old school in the way that they think.
So there's a lot of racism around that country towns.

(05:25):
It is Aboriginal mob and then there's watchlers like the
white mob. So it's a hard space to live in
when people are so set in their ways and stuck,
and you know, they just this stigma lives with you.
So netball, going through that sort of pathway freed me
from that world and opened my eyes up to what
could be. And I am a pretty optimistic, open minded person.

(05:49):
So when I started playing netball, and the reason why
I played, I was just filling in for my school
teacher's team one morning and I played seven games ended
up going out to Perth.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
I was invited to these trials. I had no idea
what it was at.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
It said Canberra, which is a flight away, and not
having a lot of money, I was thinking, oh, this
is my first time on an aeroplane. So I trained
my asshole. I worked so hard to make this team
just to go on the airplane. I was fourteen years
old and got through a two hundred selection cart and
then it went down to one hundred, went down to
eighty and the final selection. This is all within like

(06:26):
four months. Got handed this black and gold dress and
I was like, oh, this is pretty cool, Like, now, where's.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
My flight ticket?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Because I want to go on the plane when I
was fourteen years old. So I ended up making the
State seventeen's team with Brie and Bianca Franklin, who and
now like my sisters. But I was that excited to
go on the plane. But I was actually named to
represent WA and one of the youngest players ever do that.
So that was the start of my network journey.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
I guess what a fascinating story to kind of fall
into something and go on to again like push the
boundaries and challenge these norms or views of what successful
people are. Yeah, that's really interesting to know in thinking
about that as someone who is involved in sports and
coaching and being active in community and in your advocacy.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
I mean, what then motivated you to apply for Survivor? Like,
what d to that? I'm curious, Tony Well.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Sport is all I've ever known, and sport again has
been like my sort of savior in moving forward in
life and creating.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Some sort of change.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
And whenever I stepped on the netbook court, whenever I
put the footy boots on and had that jump out
on my back, I was free in that moment for
you know, the length of time that sport was going.
When I stopped playing, I felt like I lost a
huge part of who I was. And yeah, I remember
seeing on LinkedIn Survivor were looking for people to apply

(07:55):
and everything else, and I was just like, I had
no idea what it was. I sort of read up
a little bit about it, and my understanding was that
it is about manipulation, It is about the scene, and
it is about working your way through and looking after yourself,
which is all against who I am. But I saw
it as a social experiment to put all of the
practices and everything that I've sort of been taught through

(08:17):
sport of loyalty and integrity and hard work and discipline
and knowing your people. I wanted to see what that
look like in a game like that, because it's a
small scale of what society is. That's what I feel
like with all these wild characters.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Out there, it's so interesting. You're right, it is a
little microcosm. Hey, and I imagine you would have so
drawn on your sporting talents, but then yeah, the way
that mob relate, like that interrelectionality part, so I imagine.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
I would have pulled all of your skills together.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
And I must admit I was like a little shocked
when I read that you actually had no idea about
the game, Like as a quote unquote, I would say
that I am a super fan. I'm a counselor by trade,
and so there's some psychology that I love, similarly with
you about watching people into to act. And it's fascinating
because when I talk about it with friends or whatever,

(09:06):
they're like, oh, you know, I'm got into the show.
I can't deal with all the lying andnipulation. And I
think it's just such a funny thing that we say
because there is a very thin line in our lives
between good and bad and evil, and I think we
all have the ability to be self serving at times
and masket as something else. I think we can all
do it. You know, there's a biased about it, but yeah,

(09:28):
I was so fascinated to hear that you didn't know
much about the show and that was a good thing.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
I think so as well.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
And I don't think that And I've found this as
an athlete, like we have to be really self aware.
We have to be self aware in the sense of
knowing where we're at realistically, how hard have we actually worked?
And you know what shortcuts have we taken? And it's
that real ownership and accountability what I've found if they
haven't sort of gone through that elite sort of sports programming,

(09:59):
people don't realize that that deceit and those little lies
and that you know, people are always trying to get
ahead or make themselves feel a little bit better, and
it might not be in a rude or an aggressive way,
but it happens, and it happens every single day, and
people will start to realize if they actually tune into
the conversations they're having, are they holding back, Are they

(10:19):
being reserved?

Speaker 4 (10:20):
Are they being too full?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Like?

Speaker 4 (10:21):
That's all Survivor, and I don't feel like I really
lied in it.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I think that I was a little too direct, which
could be intimidating, but I like that because it makes
people uncomfortable and they have to address it.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Oh my god, I have so much to say with
your actual game style. I mean one for the books,
I think because it's interesting. Oh, there's so much to unpack,
but that no shore what you're saying about. Yeah, lying
and manipulating. I think sometimes we lie so much to
ourselves too, like we.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Get really really good at it.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
I want to read something that is on the Survivor
of with here page that they have said around your gameplay.
I don't know if you've read this, but they describe
you as a strategically aggressive player from the start. Kirby
used her sociability to arrange numerous blind sides to further
herself in the game. Through her unpredictability caused her to
be embroiled in a rivalry with Ferris, and I can't

(11:15):
wait to unpack that yarn. After lying low during the
early merge, her strategic vigus or a resurgence as she's
initiated a truce with Ferris, realizing this mutually benefit of
an alliance. You know, there is this kind of notion
like you say that you were being director assertive. It's
so fascinating for us blackfellows, because you represented like this
stone staunch women matriarchy archie type that we all know

(11:39):
and love, the one is not afraid to say things,
call it out, do it respectfully, but be honest and upfront.
It's a really strong integrity value for a lot of us.
So for us it was so comforting and normal. But
for the everyday person. You know, as women particularly we
do get told to be cooperative and polite, but in
that game you really can't be. You know, you're there

(11:59):
for yourself. So I want to pick up on that abount.
You didn't know the game when you went in. Did
you have a strategy, a process, a thought of how
you were going to play the game in mind? And
did it change over time?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
What was it just like for.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
That I actually had no idea because I didn't know
the game.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
I actually had no idea to even have a strategy.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
I remember sitting on the beach and just thinking, well,
I just need to know these people I need to
connect and my biggest thing and culturally, like you know
this as well.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
We need to connect with people.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
But because I connected on a deeper level and Aboriginal
women wear chameleons were able to adapt, We're able to
conform when we need to. Dan stormch for me have to,
like we can sort of manipulate the world around us,
because that's the superpower that we've been given and I
utilized that, Like I made sure that I tapped into

(12:53):
the people and the depths of who they were. So
when it came to say walking up to Kitty for example,
and just saying you're going to vote with us, it
wasn't as easy as that. I didn't do the work.
So yeah, just relating to people. And there's so many
versions of my story and who I am or things
or ways that I can connect to people to have
that understanding and using language like I love that about you,

(13:16):
or I love that you can do this, or like
be that boss that you want to be, like why not?
Like so I use the empowering, the encouragement, the support
sort of networking, which is manipulation, but it's also relationship
building and they are all true and genuine built so
and if you're asking about the strategy, that's what I did,
and then I just built on that.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
You sort of built on what you already know, which
is the importance of connections and relationality to really move
at a speed of trust with people. And because you're right,
I guess there's so much that happens behind the scenes
and we only see a snippet of it, which is,
you know, having those more direct conversations. There's probably a
lot of real, deep, intentional relationship building that we don't

(13:56):
actually see on TV or on the screen. I mean
with that sis, you lasted forty four days in the jungle,
and I'm going to get to the gameplay because, as
I say, I really want to unpack that. But it's
so fascinating to hear that you didn't go in with
a strategic strategy. And I guess, in thinking about that,
like how did you maintain flexibility and how did you
kind of like manage the emotional mental drain of the

(14:20):
game in being so adaptive. I imagine at times it
would be quite exhausting trying to just think of all
of the scenarios and put yourself in places for these yarns.
So how did you stay flexible with that in mind?

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Flexibility was, I guess my biggest strength.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
And again, our mob and especially our women, we are
so flexible and adaptable to what life throws at us
that we have to because we're the queens of our trials,
like we lead the way, and when things go wrong
with us, where who our mob comes to. So I
created the chaos because I work well in chaos. I

(14:56):
understand that it's not the end of the world. There's
always something possible out there that you can change or
adjust or a datsu. Whereas what I found with a
few of them, they had this gameplay or strategy that
they wanted this person out, this person out, this person
out in.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
That sort of sequence. But it's never going to work.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
And if people can sort of control that, amazing, Like
if you can do that and everyone sort of conforms, great.
But when I put something out there and it threw
a spanner in the works that rattled people, and they
always revert back to the conversation that they last had
because that's the sense of security. So I would have
a conversation two days ago saying, oh, we're going to

(15:35):
get Caroline out.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
And then that conversation will happen.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
They'll have all these other grand plans and then I'll
throw something out there, then they'll revert back to that.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
So you're like sowing the seed a little bit. Sort of.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
My plans were always in place two or three days before,
but it was all suggestive, so if we were working
sort of loosely against each other. But I walked up
to you and said, oh, you know, what do you
think of Ferris's lines? Like there's four of them sounding
pretty strong. Who do you think the brains is? Like
I'm pointing out somebody's specific, but I need you to
tell me the name because that's what I want, right,

(16:06):
So then it becomes your plan, your idea.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
And you're own control. So like, yeah, great, Eilene, let's
do it. I'm in. But I've already told three other
people the same things.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
So you're so right in saying that.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
And obviously, you know might be biased because our show
is predominantly around First Nations with women.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Our business is that. But you know, if there's anyone that.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Knows how to survive and adapt and learn how to
thrive in conditions that aren't met for them, it certainly
is black women and Aboriginal women, and especially that notion
like taking multiple perspectives into consideration and trying to bring
people together to connect them, but still be very valuable
in the decision making process. But it's just so fascinating

(16:48):
to hear that you didn't have a gameplay. I feel
like you really did stay so agile, and you were
willing to surrender when you needed to, willing to step
up and step back at times. And I imagine if
the ego gets involved, then that might be hard to
do because you're really actual the idea year of getting
your way. I imagine, like all humans are.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
One hundred percent that the ego plays a huge role
in a game like this. Obviously, I'm standing on an
island with predominantly white people, and obviously, when there's white
men involved, like the level of superiority in the sense
of society is there. So to be able to navigate
around their personalities, around making sure that they feel empowered

(17:29):
and in control and you know, like they're the man.
That's obviously what life is for me. So being able
to working with those people, having a mining and construction background,
that's all I've ever had to do for ten fifteen
years so I brought all of who I was from
reality into this game and just use it to my advantage.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
So I felt like it worked.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, it worked.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
I mean you were just so entertaining and you played
with such spirit and smarts, Like we have a group
chat with my girlfriend and my family chat and it
was paying every others.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Did you see this?

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Did you see that you just brought this kind of
new dynamic to the game. Before we dive into some
specific moments in the game, which there were a lot
for us to really distill down, I want to just
kind of talk a little bit around the logistics if
I can, and share what you can and what you can't,
of course, but.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I also to it. At this point, just want to
thank all of our listeners.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
We put a little call out to our listeners both
here and internationally for some questions, and they came in
pretty thick and fast.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
So you had an impact not only on.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Us as Black Collars, but other people allies and alike,
and so yeah, it's pretty cool how much interest we had.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
So do you mind if I go through.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
A couple of the little logistical questions and I'm sure
everyone would want to know about, like what actually happens
out there, and then if we can talk about a
couple of the gameplays, that would be incredible.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah, yeah, sweet, let's hit it.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
So the first very simple question, So you're loaned to Samoa,
you get off the plane, and then what like what
happens with the process, Like are you just there? Do
you get introducing people? Is this the first time you're
meeting them? What happens?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
We're flown into Brisbane and then we have like a chaperone,
but from that moment, we're not allowed to look around,
we're not allowed to talk to anyone. So that's the
period of isolation and sort of getting into game mode
in that sense starts there. So the phones are then
handed over, so there's absolutely no contact anywhere we landed Samoa.

(19:37):
Were then again to build on that isolation, we're blindfolded.
We're driven to our hotel or the place that we're
staying until we start to get sorted out, and that's
what that is. So we don't talk to each other,
we don't look at anyone, we don't talk to anyone
who's a part of production. Like, yeah, we start to
feel that sense of isolation, which is obviously becomes real

(19:59):
a mental challenge, but it's the start of the game,
and what's.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Going through your mind initially at that stage, are you thinking, Holy,
am I in the right place? Am I going to
run or fight or fly?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Like? What's going through your mind?

Speaker 2 (20:12):
When I applied, I applied Obviously, I got asked to
go and I was like, yes, done. I mean, so
whatever the experience was going to give me, I was
just going to take it and run with it. So
when I landed and they said I need your phone.
There's no talking, They're looking around. I handed the phone
overlooked at the ground and I didn't say it worked.
So I really got into the experience of it all,

(20:32):
and as challenging as it can be, I loved every
second of it because I can always come home right
like at the end of it.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
It's not a forever thing. I guess you know that
it will pass. But I imagine the days along. I
mean that whole notion or concept of time would feel
so surreal because we don't even sometimes realize how we
can just escape from our feelings, our thoughts. If we
are feeling a type of way, you know, we might
be scrolling unconsciously, but you are like they're dealing with

(21:00):
it all all at the same time.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, it's the first time that I have been wholeheardly
present with everything. So my own thoughts, where I was,
who I was sitting with, talking with and engage with,
like in gameplay, so you know, you don't have a phone,
no one around us, where's watchers, Like we just have
no concept of what's going on in the outside world.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
And it's wild, but it's so grounding.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Is there something somewhat liberating about that being quite insular
in this kind of bubble that's been created as well?
I mean, of course it would be an adjustment, but
I imagine after time I would be like, Okay, we're
in this safe little bubble.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
And again, like I just took it on the chin
and just run with it.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
So it was being out there and being whole hardly
present that allowed me to connect on the deep level
that I really wanted to, even though people didn't want
to early on because they was trying to protect themselves.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
They've had this strategy what they want to do, but
we can't help but.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Be there with each other, and like, eventually people start
to open up because we're tired.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Our day one it rained and our shelter.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
I don't even think we had the structure up, but
the realization and I remember standing there and it was
just pelting down.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
I was like, oh, this is all right.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
And then I was like, oh my god, I need
to stay dry because I don't get to go back
and have a shower. Now I don't get to get
changed or get into dry clothes. So once we were wet,
we were wet for three or four days. That was hard.
And that was at the very first day.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
There's this concept in another show that I love called
a low do they call it like drop shock where
it's just like boom and then yeah, like elements, personalities,
like this whole different world. So yeah, day one, you're
there and it's raining. Is everyone just on sort of
getting established shelter by our warmth? Is that sort of

(22:47):
how it worked at that point.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
It was weird because nobody really wanted to start the
conversations with anyone, and I would take a step back
and really watch what people do, so I'm an observer
before I engage with people. So we're sort of building
the shelter and then going on little loose chats and
then sort of like sussing each other out. It was random,
but half of our shelter ended up being built. None

(23:12):
of us slept that night, and there was no wood,
there was no food.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
It was just wild.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
We're kind of all looking at each other like what
the hell have we done? And I'm like, okay, And
it was really real in that moment. So but again
that experience like we can dry, like we'll drive, the
wood will dry, and we can eat. We're not going
to starve us out here. So yeah, it was just
it was a wild first couple of days.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
I could imagine just that shock to the system, but
I imagine it wouldn't take long to just adapt and
get into the gameplay of it all as well. I
guess with that in mind, you know this concept of
time and isolation. Forty four days out in the jungle
in Samoa is a long time. What do you mob
do during the days to like feeling your time? And

(23:58):
do you get into a ro teine together, do you
go have quiet time? What's happening behind the scene.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
No, there's not you don't realize, but there's not a
lot of downtime. So if somebody has an opportunity to
talk to somebody, they do it. They take it, and
you have to because if I see somebody talking to
someone that I'm not familiar with seeing, I'm heightened.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
I'm so aware of what's going on.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
But then I need to figure out, well, who do
I tell about this, how do I sort of plant
the seeds, what are my next steps to making sure
that I know what that conversation's about. On top of them,
there's idols you need to look for on top of
everything that's going on. But as soon as we wake up,
pretty much we're getting ready to go to a challenge,
and the challenges they.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Take a lot of time.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
So if we lose that challenge, we come back and
our scramble is an hour potentially two hours sometimes depending
on how hectic it is. Then we go to tribal council,
but we don't know what time we get back. Sometimes
the moon looked like it was two o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
It's just a.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Hectic day, but you don't realize like how long the
days are because you're just in gay mode.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
Even during the night in game mode, like if I.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Heard somebody roll over and get up, I would be
awake and sort of watching where the hell are they going?

Speaker 4 (25:11):
And who's going with them.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
If we had like a pie chart. But ninety percent
is just gameplay. The other ten percent might be a
little bit. It's that intense.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
All the time.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well yeah, well because it is around the seat and
manipulation like relationships and all of these different things. Like
the biggest thing for me is when I was connecting,
I was genuinely connecting two people, so I was delving
in on a deeper level. And I would love to
say that would stay friends for life because of those connections.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
But they also added value to my game.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
So when people knew and saw a bit of vulnerability,
which is very rare that I showed it. Because to
be a good engagement person, you've got to be a
great listener, and so I just listened to a lot
of people because sometimes people just like to talk about themselves.
It's pretty exciting. It was to find you would love it.
You would love it as a psychologist or you're a

(26:07):
psycholic counselor.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Counselor yeah I would. I mean it's something I would
definitely consider. But after hearing some of these things, I
don't know. You have to be a certain mindset. This
is strength of not having a social connections around you
and just this abyss of time that, yeah, is scary,
but this is comforting for a lot of our black
women who are listening to say that any one.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Of us could possibly go and do this experience.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yeah, well, it's a society thing.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
We have to wear different hats for many different reasons
as original women, because one we might be looking after
our kids, might be looking after our partner, we might
have to deal with somebody in the public eye. Like
we are always and forever wearing these different hats. And
that's such a powerful tool to have, and I don't
think that we really know that we walk with that tool,

(26:55):
that ability, and it's huge, Like I definitely tapped into
that because I have very strong women around me that
I watch do the same thing.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
So beautiful that you say that, because one of the
questions that came through from one of the listeners was
around that notion of saying, well, how much of your
gameplay was inspired by your culture and the women in
your life as well? And I imagine that as I
said it, we felt so familiar and so comfortable seeing you.
They're being cheeky and fun and so it felt like

(27:25):
you everyone's auntie. Everyone says that everyone's cousin there, so
it felt very familiar. But I imagine yet at times where
it was feeling pretty low, that you would definitely be
drawing on the strength of our old people.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Once I was told that I was going on, I
wanted to represent my people with pride, but to show
the country and the world, like it's an international TV show,
so to show the world that we are something to
be celebrated. We are something to be walked with and
to join forces with and encouraged and supported and everything else.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
And our humor is one of the best traits about us.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
But our inclusivity is our superpowers as a culture. We
want people to come in, we want to nurture them,
we want to look after them.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
Like I'm appreciate to the quiet here, but yeah, it's
a huge part of who we are.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
I've always worn those bathers, but I definitely wanted to
make sure that I wore those you know, those budget smugglers.
But yeah, just represent who I was as a person,
But who I am as a person is because of
who my people are and who are being surrounded.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
By and with that sis, you know, representation and seeing
us on screens is so important, and I love that
you Yeah, were unapologetically you know did it your you
know mob ways, but also you did it true to yourself.
You know, you stay true in who you were. Waiver
from that and it sort of gave a lot of
us sisters a bit of permission to but like, actually, no,

(28:49):
we can lean into our authentic ways of showing up
as in our blackness in and our power and our
truths our ways as well. Will be back your mob
right after short break. That notion you said before of

(29:17):
like sitting back and watching and taking it all in.
You didn't share a lot about your sport and kind
of kept some things in your back pocket in that notion,
like centering other people. You made an intentional decision to
sit back, and the first opportunity that you got to
go to tribal was Abdoozy.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
It was a big one.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
It was kind of like, all right, the game has started,
and you had an instrumental role in the kind of
takedown of the cud Or crew at the time.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
So let's discuss his first tribal council.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
So you essentially got the majority, rallied everyone together for
a Peter vote at the stage because we were sort
of sussing out the camp dynamics, and then I guess
at the last second, you and Ree I believe, decided
to go against the majority that had been warmed, actually
going against Garrick and Ferris, who was your initial sort

(30:10):
of alliance at this first tribal stage it was quasi giants.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
I mean, what was the rationale behind that decision? What
you to do that? Because I was like, Siss is
here and she's here to play.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
We're leading up to the Peter vote.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Garrick and Ferris were gunning for to Buyson Alex and like, again,
because I've not watched a show. In my mind, I'm
just like, if we're competing against Titans, you know, there's Nathan,
there's Jaden, Like there's pretty strong and winner, there's pretty
strong lands over there. So I'm also mindful of when
we go to challenges, we need to make sure we've
got some competitive players to you know, sort of ravel

(30:51):
with at least give us an opportunity to win, because
if we keep losing, we're just going to take our
own out. So they were going and going going, and
then one night I couldn't sleep and I was sitting
near the fire and Ferris came and he's like, are
we good?

Speaker 4 (31:04):
Which one should we do?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
And I was and I thought about it, and I
watched Peter leading out to know that tribal and she
was leading that cuddle alliance. She was having all these
conversations one on one and saying, let's work together, let's
be secret together, let's do this, let's have it girls
a line. So she thought that she was sort of
controlling everyone, but I watching that, I just didn't trust it.

(31:28):
And she wanted Kelly and Raymond out on the first
five minutes that I even spoke to her. So in
my mind, I'm like, I don't know these people. I
don't know you, I don't know your agenda, and I
haven't even spoken to anyone else. So it was that
moment and then watching her that I was, like I
said to Pharaos, I was like, I think it needs

(31:49):
to be Peter because she doesn't add value, you know,
to the camp. I don't really know what conversation she's having,
and I feel like she's keeping this cuddle crew together.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
So for me, Peter was the obvious choice.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
And that's that was the day before tribal that I
mentioned Peter's name again, and yeah, they everyone that we
were with in the majority were all writing her name
down like for days, so nothing was ever changing. And
the funny thing was Alex thought that I was in
his alliance as well, and I had no idea that

(32:23):
I was in their alliance because I hadn't spoken to them,
so they called themselves a sexy crew. First of all,
I got into the island, I was underdone, so I
wasn't quite there yet. And secondly, they not spoken to me,
so I'm like, well, if you think I'm with you,
then I'll just sit on the fence. So this is
my first mistake and the only only time I made

(32:44):
the mistake. But I owned it as well, like very
I was honest with everything that I did. Even if
I did it after the fact.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
There was an opportunity to repair and not acknowledge it
and move through it. And it's like, okay, what's in
the here and now sort of thing, because.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Sitting on the fence for me and Ree was like,
oh yeah, well that way, then we're sort of we're
still in with them. We're in with the majority, but
not realizing how people were going to take it, and
that's obviously a lesson that I had to learn in
a game like this. But once that happened, the next day,
I said, you have my vote. Do what you need
to Like, I'm going to prove that that was what

(33:21):
I'm telling you is the actual truth. So I gave
them the vote. We went into that next tribal council
where Kelly Kelly did whatever Kelly wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Kelly was playing their own beautiful game, which we really
loved to watch.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
And I don't even know what that game was called.
So yeah, I know she was good. She was a
good entertatement.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
That particular Cuddle Crew vote, I guess was pretty formative
in that sense because I thought that you and Ree
had pulled off the perfect plan to not vote and
that it would never be discussed.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
It would have just gone down with that.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Well, we didn't get the numbers that we anticipated, and then, yeah,
I guess when Gary kind of came over and addressed you,
a part of me was like, how are you going
to handle this? You know, I think you did well
in sort of acknowledging it and missing on the repair
and building trust. Again, you can't really hold onto too
much of a grudge there. I imagine because you've all
got to work together eventually.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I always saw it. It was what it was, and
it is what it is. So like after that vote,
like it didn't show it, but Gary blew up and
he like yelling, and it was like a really heated,
aggressive conversation, and I, like, I get triggered by that.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
But I also.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Stood back and I was like, how does he work
in my game and does it fit with me?

Speaker 4 (34:39):
And is this manageable?

Speaker 2 (34:40):
So that was sort of what was going on in
my head when I was trying to cool the jets
on that sort of explosive conversation, and I just said
to him, I said, look, I did sit on the fence,
but this is my reason.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
I sat on it because I thought I was in
their alliance.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
I thought that, yes, I can be privy to whatever
conversations they're having, but I own and recognize that we're
sitting in a majority. So I really didn't need to
and it was a fail on our end, like have
my vote. So yeah, and I knew. I knew that
it was incredibly smart.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Now that we know after the fact that you've didn't
go in with the strategy mastermind, that you were just
playing intuitively, it was an incredibly smart gameplay to sort
of at the first initial tribal keep your options open,
like you don't know who you can trust at this point.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Let everyone reveal themselves.

Speaker 4 (35:28):
Right, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
I want to sort of ask you about you know,
that notion that you have around like this is just
the game. It is what it is, very kind of practical,
and you know, I think when you're a strategic mastermind,
we're coaching football players, things just are the way they are.
Sometimes they're just neutral experiences. We don't eve as sign
anyway to them. And I think that's what you embodied.

(35:51):
Did you have time so you really had to try
to like separate the emotion from the game, and like
you did have moments where you were overwhelmed with all
of the emotion, because that's what I imagine I would be.
I think I would be able to do the social stuff,
but I'm just so sensitive and so hard on my
sleeve that I would just take everything so personal and
feel like this said rejection, Oh they don't want to

(36:13):
play with me sort of vibe. And that's probably just
my own belief system that I have to navigate. But
did you have any days where you struggled to separate
the emotion, were you just able to get through it?

Speaker 4 (36:24):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
I didn't play with emotion at all. Actually I did
one time. I got salty when they voted reaut But
I was salty because I was like, how do you
like to meet Kitty for the first time. I taught
her obviously that she could lie. But apart from that, like,
no emotion was on my end because I was there
to play and I was there as the game player always,

(36:47):
and whenever anyone brought emotion in, things didn't go too well.
So when Garrick and Ferris got heted in that tribal
council that Garrek went home, that was an emotion that
wasn't a game strategy. That was just him getting angry
or aggressive or because he's out of control. And I
thrive on that because you have to play to their emotions.

(37:09):
So if you know that you're not with them, you
just fish them or you throw an extra rock out
there and just see what other ripples can sort of come.
But if they are emotional when you're working with them,
it's then managing their emotions and calming that to make
sure that it lines up with what.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
It is that you need as well. So it's just
people managing.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
And you've seen people who have become like overly emotional
literally blow up their own games because there's kind of
like a meta experience and the bigger experience, which is like,
can you be trusted to keep a lid on it?

Speaker 1 (37:41):
And are you going to like blow up all of
our games?

Speaker 3 (37:44):
In another way if you can't manage, So you do
have to be able to like compartmentalize and sort of
detached to some extent, but also have emotional intelligence.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
It's his whole mind field.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
Yeah, it's wild. It's wild, isn't it. You need to play,
you need to go.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
And do it.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, Oh, I need to get a little bit more
of the thickest I think. I mean with the tribal processes,
like how long do they go for? Like you, what's
going on in tribal when you're in front of JLP
and for that first tribal process with the Coddle Crew,
what was going.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Through your mind? You're not exposed to the game, so
you're like, we.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Just did this, so obviously walking with our torch as
we light our flame, we put them down. Then we
all have a seat, and obviously JLP will hit us
up with some questions whether or not he's aware of
the dynamics and what that is to be able to
probe on certain conversations.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
I don't know, but I.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Use it as a learning because it's a platform. So sometimes,
you know, Ferris is a bit of a showman, so
I noticed early on that he'd sit up for perk
up at the right time and speak in a different tone,
and I was like, this floke loves this attention, so
you know, like turning into what he's saying, and he
says a lot of nothing, so he doesn't really give

(38:58):
a lot of.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Very politician way of speaking. Is the tribal responses, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Everyone sort of said a lot of nothing in that
tribal council.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
But knowing that I was sitting in the majority, knowing
that Peter and her alliance had absolutely no idea was exciting.
And when that pulled off, I fell in love with
the game. I was like, this is fun because so
it was, Yeah, it was so much fun. Because people

(39:29):
think that they're in so much control. They missed the
opportunity to double check things. They miss seeing things that
they probably should be more observant or they don't have
the conversations that they probably should just because they think
that they're in control.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
Like it's just a weird concept. But I loved I
loved that first trouble.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah, Oh it was like, Yeah, it was really entertaining
to watch. And I think there might be a sense
of by this false sense of security that we want
to believe that we're not being to broad it out. Yeah,
it's interesting to know that after that process.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, you were done.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
The blind Side extraordinary in many ways. I guess with that,
I want to talk about another tribal experience, and I
guess this kind of ties into what you were saying
before about like the emotion part of the game, where
people have got to tribal and have become overly fearful
or paranoid, and then they get on a soapbox or

(40:24):
do become overly emotional and then become the target in
that moment, and that person is Alex. I'm going to
talk about Lay thirty nine, So we're kind of like
towards the end throughout the Top six.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
I think at this stage it was kind of the first.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Time that the tribe started to think that you were
a threat, which was so surprising for us potentially watching
because we could see how you were so strategically involved
in so many things, but you weren't like always out
front and center. You were bringing people along, and it
was kind of surprising that for maybe the viewers watching
that people hadn't kind of jerryed like, oh this this
is like really valuable and a huge threat to the game.

(41:00):
So day thirty nine, Alex comes into tribal.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
I guess he's.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Feeling that he's going to be voted and he starts
to sort of expose you to the group as a threat,
but was quite adamant, very passionate about the topic. Maybe
he could have like sowd a couple of seeds and
been a little bit less vocal about it, but he
kind of started to leave this like intense discussions in
some way, and then after that he kind of put

(41:24):
a target on himself. He ended up getting voted out,
and then you went on to win two immunity idols
back to back after that, I think recognizing like, Okay,
the mob are kind of come and for me and
you were such a known threat, and at that stage,
I guess, you know, Ferris, Ferris kind of promised you

(41:45):
the idol In a roundabout way, can we talk about this.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Experience of whether on the record.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Ferris did or did not promise you the use of
the idol, because for a lot of us playing at home,
we were absolutely gutted around this vote because watching you
to as this like dynamic duel, this kind of like
frenemie rivalry, you know, not working together, working together, accepting,

(42:14):
buying the swords down and realizing, hey, we're better. It
was like this whole David Goliath like story. I guess, Okay.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
So did Ferris promise you the idol?

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Was it sort of knowing that he would, or was
it sort of suggested what went down starting.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
Back at Rebels.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Obviously I sat on the fence, disrupted it, whatever, gave
my vote across, and then Ferris I thought that we
were cool, and then he pulled an idol out at
one of the tribal counsels and I was like, I
can't trust this bloke. So that's sort of when our
rivalry started. And that's the moment where I played the
game harder up until the back end of the Titans.

(42:52):
So he came to me on the beach and literally
begged me to take him to Merge because he didn't
believe that he was going to get through, and he
probably wasn't if the game, you know, stayed with the
tribe swat for two or three votes longer. So the
fact that he did that, that was sort of when
we put our guards down. We entered Merge and both

(43:12):
sat back and watched. But Kitty blined me and said,
we save re for you. We want to work with you.
But at that time I was with Val and I
needed the information that vow had because I didn't trust Mark,
and I didn't talk to Mark at all either, So
I said, well, why don't you work with Ferris and like,
because I'm with Val, like, I just can't do that,

(43:33):
and we can do whatever she wants. So at this
stage we had Ferris and I had all the information
of exactly what everyone was thinking, which is why we
kept so cool and sort of out of the way,
like you know, Eat and taking charge and Caroline taking
charge and Mark doing whatever he feels like he needs
to do.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
Like we knew where the votes were going all the time, and.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
We had influence over that, so we were able to
sort of keep quiet in our game and you know,
obviously we get to the Alix Bible counsel because he
takes me to the spa day, which was an absolute
worst decision he could have made.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
But I was happy to shave my legs and brush
my teeth. I'm good brother like away.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
But we're not talking Strap because I just never spoke
strap with him. If he came and sat in, he
came and like barged into one of our stratchats, I
just leave the conversation. I just wanted nothing to do
with it because it made no sense what he was saying.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
That's a phone ranger at times.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
To Alex, you know, he kind of a bit of
a flipper, a bit of a lone ranger, didn't quite
find his tribe in the tribe.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, and he also had this sort of superiority about
him as well, like he wanted to be in charge.
And I just butt heads with people like that because
if you're not open to having the conversation and you
want to lead it and dictate it.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
Like I'm out, you do whatever you want to do.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah. So we get to that tribal council and he
just started going to town on everyone, which is why
I said, I think that you're insulting everyone here, and
I think they're playing an incredible game. Whether I thought
that or not, I didn't care. You say what you
need to say. But the thing was, Alex was the
vote out the whole time. That's why you don't see
us have a conversation and say we're changing it to Alex.

(45:15):
We're changing it to Alex, because it was never going
to be me at that stage.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
So it's always going to be Alex. That had already
been locked down because I guess at that stage, we've
got an alliance with you know, yourself and Ferris kind
of solidified. You know, it's clear that even if it's
not well known to everyone, you have this sort of
secret way of sharing, you know, after hours getting information,
realizing okay, we're stronger together here. I was very Game

(45:42):
of Thrones esque, I must say. And then we've got
a guess, an alliance between and a by virtue through Ferris.
We obviously have Ray connected to Ferris. So there was
like you three, and then of course Kitty and Mark,
who were working together on and off. Similarly, I guess
in a concurrent fashion with you and Ferris, they were
enemies and then they're working together, and so Alex was
kind of not in that process to begin with. I mean,

(46:05):
the relationship with you and Ferris was so captivating to watch,
and yeah, it was I guess characterized is this kind
of mix of like collaboration and rivalry. But you both
have quite similar personalities. You know, both quite cheeky, lead
at tendencies, not afraid to speak your mind, were able

(46:25):
to sit back when you needed to. You know, there
was a time where Ferris was target number one and
we thought at home that he was going to go
way before he did the tribal, the tribal where he
stands up and plays that idol for him. I mean
we were devastated. I must say, we were just gutted. Now,
with the benefit of hindsight and kay, Ferris did probably

(46:46):
what he needed to do because you were a huge
threat and that's the game, right But on a personal note,
we were so devastated.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
There's a takeaway.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
I guess they were sort of building a narrative around
you being a threat and Perris said, well, Kirby doesn't
spare me. I can sit next to her, and then
he proceeds to play the idol for himself and a
lot of Australians and ours at home were like, what
this relationship formed? And we'd already sort of said okay,
these to it in the top two there. So what's

(47:17):
going through your mind at this moment? And now, in
the benefit of hindsight, what do you make of it now?

Speaker 2 (47:23):
In that moment in that day, I remember sitting on
the beach and just saying to him like, would you
play it for me?

Speaker 4 (47:29):
And he didn't even think of that. He didn't.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
I don't know whether he was tired at that stage
or whatever, but I was always thinking like and he
was my only savior unless I went to find the
idol that wasn't found, which is something in hindsight I
wish I did.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
It is what it is.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
So at that stage I said to him like, wallah,
whillas his I swear to God, I said, weallah, I
want to sit with you at the end.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
I'm not lying when I've said that, and this is
what I want.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
So he was genuinely considering it, and I could see
it playing in his mind, but I didn't want to
tell him to do it.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
I didn't want to keep forcing it on him.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
It needed to be his decision as well, which is
why trible counsel. I was like, I'm not afraid to
stand or sit next to any of you, like, and if.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
It's Fairest's the biggest player, like, I'll sit with him.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
So I was then going to his ego, which is
why he said I won't flinch if I sit next
to Herbi're like, she doesn't scare me. And at that moment,
I was like, good, you keep thinking that, like I'm
good with that brother like sick. When he was saying that,
I was okay, But it was the first time in
any trouble counsel that I felt uneasy because I don't
have the control anymore he does.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
That scared me.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
So when he went up and he told this yarn
after we left the show, I said, what was that?

Speaker 4 (48:46):
What was that yan all about? Like just play busy
up and shut up?

Speaker 2 (48:51):
So yeah, when he got off and I was like
when he started going on a tangent, I knew straight away.
And when he said I'm going to play it for myself,
my head dropped into my hands and.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
I was like, oh my god, my game is done.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
And I remembered just going all right, just read the votes,
let's get it done with I'll come up and see
you JLP.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
And yeah, it was a bit of a sinking feeling
all around. Hey, that was the life jacket, I guess
for you, and I guess that's just a testament to
how strong you play.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
That you really were an incredible threat. I think anyone
would have been.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Terrified to sit next to you if we're looking at
the characteristics of the game outwit out last and our play.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Of course it wasn't an outlast, but you had such
a case to make, and I think some of the
jury would have been.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Surprised at some of the roles he possibly had played,
because you weren't out there spooking, oh I've done this
and I've done that, like maybe some other people had
claimed some tribals that maybe weren't theirs, which they were
happened to to their demise. Yeah, so we would have
it would have been fearful for most of the players there.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
So, yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
It was a very plegnant part of the game where
you know, for Paris as well to give credit and
respect for it to do he held onto that idol
for huge amount of time despite being huge threat. And
then when he did the ray move and pretended like
they found the idol with Alex. Sorry, he sort of yes,
solidified his place by by doing what he had to do.

(50:16):
I mean with that sis, you know, if you had
to stay in there in an ideal world, would you
have taken Ferris to the end.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Yeah, because my moves were all planned and executed and
they were visual and they knew that. So when I
walked into Juruvilla, they were like, if you stayed, we
were all writing your name, regardless of even talking to
each other about it. So and they all said that
individually to me, which is wild because you don't know
what you haven't seen, and players who played the game

(50:45):
on Farris's side has seen certain moves that he might
have made, but she could have played the bigger role
in that which could have counteracted it. Whereas a lot
of my moves were planned and executed, and it was
done in a way that I utilized people to make
them feel like they were the ones making the move,
but it was just done in a way that I
knew that it was mine, and when I would tell

(51:08):
the story or when I'd be able to explain it,
they would know that. So the Islen vote is a
perfect example Kitty came up to me and said, oh, like,
you know, what are you thinking? And I was just like, well,
if you, Caroline, Val and Mark all have a chat
like what are your thoughts around Ferris in his top four?
Like who's the brain's in that? You know, in my mind,
I'm thinking Eileen. But you know you come back with

(51:30):
the name. So the exact same thing to Caroline, same
thing thing to Vowel. And I said, value or you
know that I vote with you, So you come back,
you tell.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
Me the name.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
So I said, Eileen, Earleen, Eileen. They came back said Arlene.
I said, cool, all right, over whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
It's just brilliant.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
It's such a mastermind to know that you had strategically
thought about.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Things well before they were going. You didn't feel scrambled.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
You're presenting so clearly and grounded because you had done
all of that leg work. I guess I want to
ask you two kind of general questions about the game.
She's you know, any regrets, anything that you wish she
had have done differently? And then the second question is
you know, the biggest lesson that the game taught you
about yourself, not as survivor game player, but as you

(52:16):
know Kirby Bentley the Warrior Woman.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
My only regret is probably and I look for idols,
and because I've never watched it.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Yeah, did you ever look real talk just be like
on the way to the Gila and be looking for
an idol? Oh?

Speaker 2 (52:30):
I I'd go and look because you always have to
have like crew with us to be able to capture
that moment, right, So it's hard not to be too
obvious because you got someone there with you, and then
everyone's got big eyes too. So I did look, and
I wish I had looked more, and I wish I
learned how to find idols. That's probably my only regret

(52:52):
other than that I played the game for what the
game is giving me. I adjust that I adapted, I grew,
I learned, and I never made the same mistake again.
So I loved that aspect of it, and as far
as what it has given me, it's just allowed me
to be true to.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Who I am.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
And I that I found myself again, which is huge
because you play sport and then you've got all this
scrutiny or perceptions of who people think that you are.
And I started to feel so stagnant and I guess
suppressed in the way that I was sort of being betrayed,
so I didn't know how to be anymore.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
This sort of freed me again.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
And I am cheeky, you know, but I'm respectful and
I admire people who can come out of some resilience
and work through that and what that looks like. But
I admire people who have never experienced that and stay
positive but supportive to those people that go through that too.
So I'm a very open minded person and I feel

(53:52):
like I've just found myself again.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
How special to hear that and that survivor could provide
that for you. And as a result, you're sort of
using this to encourage us to find ourselves in different ways,
because you know, after coming out of the show, you
or even before, you've been really involved in community work too.
You know, this is the thing about black women were busy,
got are hands in many pies, and you know, I

(54:16):
guess I want to just sort of maybe shift gears
slightly in thinking about, Yeah, you're providing a platform for
bigger conversations, and I want to ask about your business
and brand, Nala, Yeah, can you share a little bit
around the significance and the inspiration of this.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, so I actually have two businesses, so one's Nyala.
Nyala in Yunga language means ours, so it's yours and
mine and the whole idea. All the concept of that
is to have the conversation when no one's looking. And
I use our culture as a celebration and conversation starter.
So art tells many stories and you've got so many

(54:53):
versions of that, and your story is different to mine,
but it's still a way to celebrate and share and
everything else. So on the show, my jumper said coffee
is still coffee, and that was there to start the conversation.
So it doesn't matter if you put milk in it,
if you don't put milk in it at all, it's
still coffee.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
And that's how we are.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
So the conversation around that is how aboriginal are you,
and that that's probably not the best thing to say,
and because of the way that we were brought up,
our colonization. So it's just having a conversation that allows
people to feel comfortable to speak the truth without it
being aggressive or forced upon. Nyala is inclusive to everyone.

(55:37):
And you know, one of the things with Yaala being ours,
the world ours. What does that mean in Italian? What
does that mean in New Zealand? I were like, what
does that mean to all of who you are as people?
And that's how we connect And because we're such a
connected culture, I want to celebrate that and I want
to share that.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
So, yeah, that's what Yale's about.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Beautiful. I love that.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
I love that, like having, you know, putting it on
T shirts. Being conversation starters and entering into an uncomfortable
conversation at a grassroots community level is really where we
see change with how we engage with one another and
seeing each other. You know, I think sometimes as blackfellow
as we do get a bit other and we just
like you, well, we just want to be happy and

(56:18):
healthy and safe and connected and experienced joy.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
We aren't too different from you.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
And so to have this beautiful conversation starts in language
is really special.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
And it extends further than culture too, Like it's identity
is sexuality. It's like whatever your beliefs are. If you're
having a coffee with someone and somebody's brought something up
that may sound defensive, that you know, may come across wrong.
It's not calling him out as such, but it's having
the conversation when no one's looking. You don't need an

(56:52):
audience to do that. You just need to shift it.
That's what I love about this brand, and it's yeah,
that's what it's for. So there's so many different layers
that you can sort of tap into when it comes
to that love that.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
We do a lot of work in at Black Model
in our company on like anti racism and cultural safety
and workforces and how to build awareness around having kind
of ally or bystandard conversations. And you're right, like it's
a moment by moment, interaction by interaction, conversation by conversation things.
We all have the ability to be like racist, able

(57:26):
as sexist and say the wrong things at the wrong times.
And how do we just say, hey, you pull up
or how do we actually up and having it? I
love the sentiment of that because that's what it's going
to take a bit of humility this actually we are
going to get this wrong.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Yeah, exactly, Like using art and clothing, it's a great
way to start those things. And the other business that
I have it's called Jukian Jukian Sisters. It's female own,
female run aboriginal business and it's with my best mate.
We played footage together a stry higher of machines in
civil and mining. So the whole idea or purpose driver

(58:02):
for me personally is to make sure that I have
something for my nieces to step into, to give them
a step forward or an advantage in life, and something
that I had to work for and didn't necessarily have.
But I want them to have that sort of freedom
to already be there and have that potential to excel.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
I love that if we good and our family eat good,
we're doing good.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
That's really what it's about, isn't it. You know?

Speaker 3 (58:29):
The idea of having like financial freedom for our little
jargons or boras is so important, and they were always
thinking about like regenerating and replenishing back. That is something
that possibly would have made This is why you became
such a strong survival game player.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Would you go back?

Speaker 3 (58:45):
If you asked, I'm tipping there's going to be some
like a team I'm thinking like yourself and Ferris and
George and Hayley and like all these crew come back
from other seasons. Would you ever consider going back?

Speaker 4 (58:56):
Do you think?

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (58:58):
I think it depends.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I love playing the game, and if I was going
in the strangers that have watched it and they've watched me.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Then I don't know how long i'd last. But if
I was going in with players that have played before,
it could be it could be different. But I'm open
to it. I just don't know how soon. What that
looks like.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
You've got your fingers in a few pies. You know,
I'll have to come to you for some research what's
going on, or I need to actually go and watch
it and understand it. Well, I'm going to pop all
of your what you're doing at NALA, what you're doing
in your other business into our podcast show notes. As

(59:38):
I say, want to thank all of our listeners who
provided questions. It was so good to connect with you today.
I just have yeah, a lot of love admiration for
you who you are most importantly and the many things
that you've done and will continue to do in helping
our communities too.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
So yeah, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Today'sis no thank you so much for having me, and
I am so proud to be an Aboriginal woman. I'm
so proud to be talking to a strong Averaginal woman
in your South Carolina and I know that we do it.
It's more than just about us, so yeah, it's for
our future and our cool and girls are kids, so
I love that. No love this show, so I can't

(01:00:22):
wait to hear it, And thanks so much again for
having me.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Well, thank you, and thank you for giving us permission
to show up unapologetically. I hope that all the sisters
who are listening can be reminded that it's okay to
stand in your truth and show up exactly how you are,
because yeah, I think that's what you just illuminated on
our screen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
So thank you again, his.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Thank you so much for listening, you mob. If you
are vibing this season of Yarning Up, then please head
over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts
from to show us some love, rate and review. Alternatively,
you can get in contact and give us some feedback
by visiting www. Dot Caroline Coow dot com dot au