April 15, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode, Caroline is joined by Kobie Dee, hailed as one of the most exciting voices in Australian hip hop. Kobie Dee, a Gomeroi artist from Maroubra in South Sydney, Bidjigal Land. Through songs like "Statistic," "Father's Eyes," and "Still Standing," (to name a few) Kobie is using his love and passion for music and performing to create powerful messages and stories, using hip hop music as a vehicle for change.
In this episode, Caroline and Kobie Dee yarn about Kobie’s music journey, where he draws inspiration and how he creates powerful messages and stories, using hip hop music as a vehicle for change. They yarn about his passion for guiding and uplifting his community through performance and providing artistic mentoring opportunities. He has a talent for connecting with youth, and he yarns about the new recording studio he’s opening in his home town of Maroubra and how he hopes it will inspire future generations to connect with their culture and ancestors.
They also explore Kobie's personal journey into fatherhood. Gain unique insights into Kobie Dee's tracks and songwriting process, particularly for his latest song "Statistic," guaranteed to find its way onto your playlist
To keep up to date with all the deadly work Kobie Dee is doing, make sure to follow him on social media @kobiedee47
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show!
Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here!
We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast was brought to you by On Track Studio.
For advertising opportunities please email hello@ontrackstudio.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Welcome to Yarning Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
(00:26):
proud barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the Runderi people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
and always will be unseated aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.
(00:54):
While I'm really looking forward to today's conversation, I'm in
the presence of Gomera greatnit. I'm really looking forward to
connecting with this singer, songwriter, rapper, someone who is truth telling,
storytelling and connecting with a lot of our young ones
and Australia more broadly. Yeah, today I'm sitting down with
(01:16):
Kobe Duncan, or as we know him as Kobe d
Welcome to the show, my bro.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
No, thank you sis, I'm glad to be here and
thanks Echs for having me on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I was super fan girly because I got an opportunity
to see you perform in the flesh this week at
the Followship program. Yeah, it was such a beautiful space
that was created, and it was just so nice to
sort of hear you perform and the work that you're
doing to support young ones along the way.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, it was mad down there just to see everything
that they've been doing over the past twelve months. I
think they said they've been doing the workshop stuff waren
And then I did that men's workshop earlier on in
that day and I could just feel the connection between
the men there, the young men there, and yeah, it
was just it was a powerful day. And then just
to yeah, be there to celebrate them finishing up was mad. Well.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
As we do on this show, we always like to
start by getting to know you, So I wanted to
start bro with yeah, just talking about who's your mom
and maybe share a little bit about where you grow up.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah. So I'm a Gonemorray what Whatdy man Gomory for
my father's side and Wady Whatdy from my mother's side.
But I grew up here on Biggal Country, born and
raised here on Bigical Country, and I'm still here today.
You know, my partner is a vigical woman, and you know,
so my son Easy, he's a bigical man, and you know,
so it's like it feels good to be out here
and still living out here because I'm waddybody. So it's
(02:40):
still part of the durable nation. So same like nation
up here as well, So in a sense, I'm still
living on country as well, and so it feels good
like I've always I've grown up here and I have
the privilege of learning a lot of culture out here,
you know, through school and stuff like that, as as
through preschool learning language and stuff like that. And then
(03:01):
in school we had it was very fortunate enough to
be able to do dancing and and all that stuff.
So that's why I love still living in this area,
you know, And I love that I can say that
with my kids as well.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
How special to be able to kind of like anchor
your roots in a place where your land, your country,
your people, and then be able to share that with
the little Jarjians as well. I imagine that's a really
special to stay. You grew up in Marubra, is that right? Yeah? Yeah,
So it's like what a beachside town and like the
eastern suburbs of Sydney or.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Like, yeah, so it's like you know where Laparous.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We're just like pretty much right next to Laparous. You know,
You've got Laparos and you've got Maruba, Malaba, Little Bay
and Laparous south East Sydney, and yeah, we've got the
beach like five minutes down the road. You know, it's
a beautiful area. For me, It's I think we took
for granted living so close to the beach, especially when
I started going back up to more area and that
(03:57):
and there's no beaches out there, and I start like, lie,
and I should be going under the beach a lot more,
you know. Yeah, this is this is where I feel
most at home. You know. I've tried to live other places,
moved back to May for a bit when I was younger,
in my younger days and just trying to reconnect back
with family and stuff like that, you know. And I've
lived on the Central Coast for a little bit, but
I've always found myself back here. I even lived in
(04:19):
the city here in Sydney a little bit, which is
only half an hour from here, and even that didn't
feel the same, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And what was Maruba like growing up as a young
fella and what was it like for you.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I had its pros and cons, you know. I think
as a lot of neighborhoods growing up, I was always
you know, we was always out till the street lights
come on, you know, and I loved love that as
a kid. And all my mates they live so close. Yeah,
we'd just be out all the time. You know. It
was fun and I loved being out here. But then
there was also you know, we're exposed to a lot
(04:50):
of different things. There's a lot of drugs and alcohol
in Marubra and noways fights and stuff like that. So
there was always that side of it too, But it
was always exciting. I guess there's always something exciting happening.
As I got older, quite a down a lot. But yeah,
I've always just I've always loved growing up here, and
like I said, I just can't get away. I want
(05:11):
to do more here as well, you know, like I'm
about to open a studio here in Muruba, you know,
and I want to continue to do that stuff. I
feel like so many people are just like I'm working
to get out of here, you know, and for me,
it's like I'm working to stay here and build here,
you know, create like the things here in this community
(05:31):
that I want to see for our kids, you know,
our next generation. And that's what keeps me here as well.
Is like, I just feel like there's so much to
do here in my community and it definitely keeps me
still here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
A lot of us who yeah want to move out,
like you say, as fast as we can. But you know,
tending to our roots, coming back to where we've grown
up and helping to build and shape the community where
you're from is yeah pretty special. Look, bro, you have
been described as a powerful and master storyteller Triple J.
I've also called you one of the most exciting new
(06:04):
voices in Australian hip hop. I mean, you have been
making music on a public stage for the last seven years.
When you released your first song right.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Now, right now, right now, I'm gonna get on that
right now.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What inspired you to start getting into music.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I've always been involved with music. I've always loved music.
I also come from a family that loved music as well.
My mom was always someone that she always had music
on when she was cleaning, or she always had music
on when she was doing something, you know, So I
think I picked it up at a young age, listened
to like Ausha and Erica Bardou and all those kind
of artists. So I always grew up with music. And
(06:44):
my uncles were really good guitar players. They were living
in Casino on Bungelong Country, go up there and we'd
see them. They were just some of the best guitar players,
like even to this day, like I still feel like
they're the best guitar players ever, you know. And they
just could play any song and they taught themselves. Found
a bit of a passion for guitar when I was
younger because of my uncles, and I think just growing up,
like I started dancing a lot more too, like traditional dancing,
(07:07):
but also like hip hop dancing, and I just found
like a love and a passion for it. It was
around like ten years old when I first wrote my
first rap, and that was coming from experience of listening
to my mom listened to Easy and that was just
something about Easy does that the song was, and it
was something about it. I don't know what it was,
but it was like something in me was like I
want to do this, or it is something in me
(07:29):
that said I can do this, And so I wrote
my first rap, and I was just pulling together just
different things that I've heard in different raps and you know,
then coming up with my own rhymes and thinking about
stuff that a ten year old shouldn't have been swaging about.
But it was like it was my first experience of
like creating something like that, you know, telling a story
(07:50):
like that. And then I showed my mom, and my
mom was like, my mom was a bit surprised that
I could even rhyme, that I could eat like at
such a young age, you know. But she was like,
you can't be talking about that stuff because I was
just copying Easier, you know, speaking about stuff I didn't
even know anything about, you know, but that's what I heard,
and I it's the same way today, you know, like
(08:12):
I speak about things that I see, I speak about
things that I hear. I speak about things that happened
in my life, you know. And so it turned into
speaking about what I heard from other artists like Easier,
and then it turned into speaking about what I see
in my community, and it turned into speaking about what
I feel and all these different things, and I just
(08:32):
kind of let myself become the vessel for storytelling of
the things that I experienced, things that I see, and
over the years, like I've I've learned to understand it more.
As a young fan, I'm like, I'm just a rapper,
you know, I just I'm just good at it. But
for now, like I think it's it's a much deeper thing.
You know, people are storytellers, and now people were the
first original storytellers. You know, everything that we learned was
(08:57):
passed down through song, dance art, and it was all stories.
We didn't have anything written down, Like we have thousands
and thousands of years of knowledge from just words to mouth.
Things that happen like fifty years, sixty thousand years, you know,
that have just been passed down through stories. So for me,
I feel like it's there's something in there that from
(09:19):
our ancestors that like, you know, in our genes that
were made for storytelling. Even like sitting here and like
when you've made like this podcast, you know, it's a
space to sit here and tell our stories, and it's
I feel like it's just in our genes. So for me,
I just feel like I'm just carrying on that tradition
of storytelling, but telling the stories of today. And these
(09:41):
are the songs that are going to be heard for
generations to come, you know. So that's the way I
see it now, and that's that's definitely why I will
never change that about my eyes. I'm always going to
tell stories, and I'm always going to speak about stuff
that means stuff to me and what I want to
bring awareness to well, because it's a form of education
(10:01):
as well to educate people.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, you're right, bro. Like Black Fellows, it inspires me
and blows my mind in so many ways, like we
all have this innate desire to share Black stories to
being the business of truth telling of black joy, just
to see how mob are continuing these like ancient traditions
(10:24):
but in like this more contemporary way, and the storytelling
process is still ongoing and evolving like us. The thing
I really admire about your music is that you don't
shy away from telling some of the hard yarns too,
and some of these experiences like being a young black
man growing up in so called Australia, the realities of
(10:47):
our lives and how tricky they can be. You know,
some of the stories that you share in your yarns
are so powerful, but they're also difficult at times to listen,
listen to you know their your lived experiences. One of
my favorite songs of yours is Jody back to.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Where this story is again Little Jody cousin Cody and
their best friend Ben. They used to play and pretend.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I love that song, and I want to just sort
of speak a little bit about like yourd of creative
writing process and writing from your lived experience, songs like
Jody and about a girl and role models like how
do you sit back and kind of make sense of
these feelings and experiences and then convert them into art.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, it's most of those songs, they come from pure emotion, Yeah,
And it was from a spark of inspiration of feeling
moved by maybe a story that I've heard, from something
that I had experienced that day. Something image just says
you need to write about that. I need to create
(11:54):
a story to explain what I'm feeling. And that's where
a lot of that come from. Like Jodi. I wrote
Jodi when I was like eighteen, even about a girl,
like I wrote about a girl not long after she
was seventeen, going out and smoking we with the dope
things follows a frind scene and this life I wrote
this life, Like around the same time, this last thing,
(12:15):
I'm pretty this last thing, this slack, my one day
break break, this slack might take my soul. Around that time,
when I had so much going on in my life,
I was feeling all these different emotions and I just
had a lot of different experiences that I just had
something in me that she said, you need to write,
you need to write, you need to write about this.
And I still get that today, And like that's what
(12:38):
makes it hard with being in the industry now because
it's like for me, I used to just write whenever
I got that feeling, you know, and I'd never forced
myself to write. So now where I'm in the industry
and there's deadlines and there's there's expectations, and there's all this,
and it's like it's very different now to where I'm like,
all right, this is I need to be here on
(13:00):
this set day and I need to write. But I
still get those statistics. But am I being realistic but
trying to get this message to the ones that might
have missed it. We only get one life, so why
risk it?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Fuck?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Being a statistics an example of I had that feeling,
and I got that feeling you know, and that was
just I just so happened to already be in the
studio working on a different song that day. You know,
that feeling just comes and goes sometimes, and that feeling
from for Statistic, come from a conversation with my producer,
(13:33):
who is non Indigenous, you know, and just all all
it started was was just speaking about that feeling of
being as young as ten and feeling like I'm going
to go to jail at some point in my life.
Just speaking about that, and then I got that feeling
of because hey said it to me, he goes, we
should put that down. And I just had that feeling of, yeah,
it is, It's an important story to tell. And I
(13:55):
didn't know which direction that song was going to go,
you know. I just started off speaking about that and
then it turned into what it did. And it was
one of those songs like Jody songs, like about a
Girl and Statistic, like those three. I had kind of
the same process. Like when I was eighteen, I used
to just be able to write whenever I wanted. You know.
(14:17):
Now I've got like three kids and my life. Yeah,
I can't just sit there and just write, you know,
but we've Statistic, like we've so gone back to Jody
that song. Like I started writing because something had happened.
I don't know if I've seen something on the news
or I've seen it was something to do with someone
(14:40):
had gone to jail and people were just like putting
them down. Seeing something. I wanted to speak about story
where it shows the background of why they ended up
in jail. At the end, you here, like Ben and
Cody they leave with the money and like all this stuff,
and Jody ends up dying, and you know, but I
wanted to tell their backstories and how they ended up
in position, because once that happens, the news reports Jodi
(15:04):
died rubbing a bank, Cody and Ben two fugitives on
the run, you know, and people are just like, oh
my god. But then when you hear that whole story
feel for them. For me, that come from I remember
sitting at I was at my mates. He's telling me
about his uncles. They come in and he's like, oh,
they done. They were robbing a bank like this is
and that, And I remember just being young and thinking
(15:24):
like what they rubbed the bank? And I know that
stuck with me. And then hearing about that because like
back in the day. It was obviously a lot more
common than what it is today, but that story like
stuck with me. And then looking at his uncle. I
grew up with his uncle, you know, I grew up
back and could never see him for that. That was
kind of an inspiration for that as well. But yeah,
going back to it was just like I wanted to
speak about what people don't see. So I sat up
(15:47):
all night until like three in the morning, three four
in the morning, until I finished that song, and that
was just sitting in my bed, I had headphones on.
Finish that. And then about a girl. I wrote that
not so long after, and that was an experience of
one of the girls in my neighborhood. I remember seeing
her and remembering her. No, she had been on drugs
(16:08):
and stuff, and I just remember seeing her and kind
of remembering before she went down that path. And the
story wasn't one hundred percent about her, like it was
obviously added different things with different stories that I heard,
but it was inspired just by that, and I thought,
I want to I want to tell that story. And
I wrote that until the sun come up, you know,
like I just sat there all night because I couldn't
(16:28):
stop writing. And then statistic was the same. I started
in the studio and I wrote a few bars, and
then I went home and it was like I try
to go to sleep, and I'd just like I'd be
up and I'd just be writing again. And those type
of moments are special. So like, yeah, my writing process
is very different. A lot of the time. Sometimes it's
(16:49):
like it's I'm going in there and I'm just like,
I'm just going to write what I can today. And
sometimes it might I might get that feeling in the
middle of writing. Sometimes I have a warm up, right,
and I'll like write to beat off YouTube just for
to get me warmed up, and then I would start
working on the beat that I want to work on.
You know. Yeah, it's different. That's what being creative is.
(17:09):
You just let it flow and you do whatever feels right.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It sort of circles back to that point you were
saying earlier about you know more being some of the
oldest storytellers. Is I imagine when you're in that flow
and you're in that state, it's just the ancestors like
pouring through you whatever needs to come out. And I
think this is the thing that you do so well, bro.
I mean there's many things. I know that you're doing
so much stuff outside of just music, but sharing these
(17:35):
yarns for young fellows. But you know, I think sometimes
it is very easy to think of in a story
like the good, the bad, or the victor the villain,
you know, even with black followers that were either you know,
good or bad or you know, just real binary sort
of projections of who we are that really don't see
all the complexities of why people who are experiencing pain
(17:58):
might make decisions that an't the best for them as
a way to sort of survive and cope. And I
think this is the thing that you do so beautifully,
is you portray the depth of a story and we
get to see so much of this character. But I imagine,
you know, when you're trying to keep everyone happy now
(18:20):
that you're within industry, finding time to honor the story,
honor your own lived experience, make sense of some of
these things in your life, would be would be tricky?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, because it's like I always want to
stay true to myself as well, you know, And yeah,
I definitely want to experiment and try new things with music,
but I don't want to ever be in a position
of like, I'm just doing this to see if people
like it. It's always coming from a place now of
like making music that I want to make and I'm
(18:51):
making music that feels right to me. It's always just
staying true to myself and that that's what I keep
telling myself, you know, is like is this me? And
said it to me before? They said, like, because I
made a song and then they're like do you like it?
And I'm like, yeah, I guess I said, like people
might like it, and they're like, but is this something
that you would listen to? As like, no, it's actually not.
(19:13):
And that was a moment for me of like I
shouldn't be making anything that I wouldn't listen to, just
thinking that oh maybe someone else will listen to this,
you know. So yeah, I try to try to stick
with that now and open in this studio in my
neighborhood as well. It's like there's gonna for me creatively
or be massive one having my own space to to
go and be creative. And you know, because having kids.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
At the moment, where do you find the time?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah? Yeah, and it's like everything is very scheduled, you know, creatively,
it's going to be massive but also I think working
with young people for me is something. The more workshops
and stuff that I've done with young people, because that's
what these studios about. It's about getting young people in
and teaching them how to make music and stuff. That's
the whole aim for this video. The more workshop stuff
(20:01):
that I have done in the past, the more like
it inspires me because I'm watching these young people learn
to make music for the first time, and it takes
me back so when I was first learning to write
and learning flows and learning how to put certain words
together and melodies and like all these things. Teaching young
people reminds me of how I started. It's so inspiring.
(20:25):
So I'm just I'm super excited to have a space
like that here because we don't have anything like that.
You know, our people are so creative. I feel like
it's good that we have so much sports, like we
have so much things. We have so many gyms here.
We have so much to do with sports and physical activity,
and that's great, Like we need physical activity, but our
people also need a creative out that and we need
(20:48):
these spaces where we can express ourselves through art and
stuff like that. You know, when I was in down
in Nam where we did the young Men's workshop in
the morning before the graduation for the Followship, and we're
talking about like so much about blah blah boys that
go to jail and they paint and they just paint
(21:08):
in it and that it's the most beautiful pains ever.
And then they come out and they stop painting and
you don't see them paint at all. And it's like,
imagine if they had a space where they could go
and they could you know, they had the resources to
go and paint freely, and because it's like it can't
just be a place that they just do it when
(21:29):
they're in jail, because then it's like they feel like
they can only express themselves in those certain places, you know,
creating that space for people to feel comfortable to come
in and to create, because that's what that's what we're about,
such creative people. So just I'm super excited to create
that space for so many young people around you.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So deadly, and this is the beautiful thing about like
Black followers in arts. You know, not only are you
making music so that us other Black followers and the
colony can you know, make sense of ourselves, make sense
of each other, but then also thinking about how we
create these legacies and foundations for the next gen. I
mean that sounds amazing. So you'll be starting up a
(22:10):
studio where young fellows can come down and yeah, like
learn how to do some freestyle and learn how to
like put down some tracks and kind of just make
sense of their lives.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, well all of it really like beats, be able
to learn to make beats, a lot of podcast room
in there, like people if they want to start their
own podcasts. You know, we're going to have like a
room there for that pretty much anything to do with
music to We're going to be teaching in that. You know,
kids can learn and make their own beats for their
friends that rap, yeah, singing, like all of that, Like
(22:42):
we're going to have it all, you know, amazing, super exciting.
And then yeah, the podcast room is like just another
element of storytelling and creativeness that so many good yarns
that are going to come out of that, and just
another platform for young people to make for themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's like real mind blowing when you think about it,
and even you said it before about like you're sharing
stories and we're doing podcasts and thinking about young fellaws
like creating these like time capsules or archiving some of
these stories like for the public, but for themselves and
to just have them permanently there. Yeah, that's that's amazing
to hear that you're creating a studio a place for
(23:19):
you to go right and to share with the mob there.
I want to I want to kind of flip back
to what you were saying before a little bit about
your new song Statistic. And you know, the song starts
with you know, pitch yourself being ten years old and
having visions stuck in a prison caused by the stories
that we're told. I mean, the feat is incredible, but
(23:39):
the lyrics are so powerful talking about you know, as
black fellows, we you know, we we believe what we
what we hear and what we see about us and
that we are these statistics. And this is why having
places like the studios and other places where mob can connect,
like the program that were yarning about before, is just
so important to have places for young people to come together.
(24:02):
But I want to just ask you about this latest
single and maybe if you could just share, like what
does the song mean for you and what do you
hope that you know, people who interact with it can
can feel and experience.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I think for me, a lot of it was speaking
about being a young fellow and feeling like I was
going to go to jail or still feeling like I'm
going to go to jail at some point in my life.
Speaking about that, I felt like, I know there's more
followers out there that relate to that. There was something
in there that I wanted people that have gone through
that or still feel like that to relate to that
(24:37):
and know that there's more of us that feel like that.
Even speaking with you know, my producer even he was
kind of like, what that was a moment of like,
all right, I know there's people that don't get that.
There's a lot of people that were just normal kids
and never thought about jail. For me, it was like
hear about it so much, and even just the stereotypes
of black people go to jail, you know, it's a
(24:59):
massive And think about fathers as well, like there's another
stereotype of like we're not good fathers and we don't
have fathers in the house, and these are things that
as a kid, you hear these things so much that
you just believe them, And I just thought, we just
don't have dads. I just thought it's because we're black,
you know, like we don't have dads. I thought that,
you know, my older cousins or older boys in the
(25:21):
neighborhood were going to jail because they're black. It's stuff
that we're told as kids, you know, those stereotypes. And
in this song, I wanted to speak about also black
where that comes from. And I say in one of
the lines, took our fathers and never know it, they'd
be seen again, And wonder why there's dead beat dads
our generation's pain. They speak about that because like you
think of how many fathers that they took out of
(25:43):
households and locked them up for nothing, and don't think
that that's going to have an effect on the children
and the way that the children's parents or you know,
that intergenerational trauma and that butterfly effect of taking our
fathers out of the house. That was a big tactic
for colonizers, you know, to take the fathers out of
the house. And you see it in so many places
of people of color, like they take the fathers out
(26:05):
of the house, and it's like it's part of the plan,
you know. And I wanted to speak about that and
I wanted to speak about, yeah, where all that comes from,
because we didn't have no prisons before colonization, you know, Like,
how can we be the most incarcerated people in the
world and it be our fault when we didn't even
have prisons before white people came, Like, it just doesn't
make sense. So I wanted to speak about that stuff.
(26:26):
And then I wanted to speak about so many of
them dying at young ages, you know, and speaking about
not seeing our olders make it past eighty, or not
seeing a lot of our elders make it into the
older ages because of the substances and the foods and
like all these things that were introduced to us that
have just ruined our bodies and a big reason why
(26:48):
we're so high in heart attacks and diabetes and all
these different things because of colonization, you know. Like for me,
it was like I wanted to just remind people, like
this is why you know, people love to you know,
like white people love to say, oh, if we never came,
you would still be walking around naked, and we like
(27:12):
or they'll say, like, give us that technology back if
you don't like the white man, and like, we made
your lives better and It's like, how were the highest incarcerated,
with the highest rates of suicide, with the highest rates
of in the in the healthcare system. Thing is just
like how can you say our lives are better now?
And it's hard to put that in such a short
song too, yeah know, And I think for me it's
(27:34):
like it starts a conversation at least. And you know,
I copped a lot of racist comments on it as well,
like because you look up the life expectancy before colonization
and there's like one thing about it, and someone's like, oh,
we just live to forty. I do not believe that
for a second, Like how can we have had no diseases,
no sicknesses, no nothing, no sugar like no other the
(27:58):
bad sugars and lived on such a healthy diet and
you're telling them we only lid to forty.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You don't have to look too far to have a
look at the Iaceis map where you can see like
thousands of different language groups, nations, families, clans like working
together with this like complex system of working with each other,
working with land, working with water. To know that we
weren't like thriving in abundance, I mean we wouldn't have
(28:25):
been able to have that many mobs and groups if not.
I mean the fact that we're able to maintain our
own ways and customs and knowledges is pretty telling. And
I think this is the thing that it's just so
so special about your music is that, yeah, you do
talk about this like black male experience. Migeloos have this
view that you know, where unwell or unhealthy because we're
(28:49):
all criminals and we're all you know, not eating vegetables
and going to the doctors and all of that. But
there are like this real pervasive systemic racism. The impacts
of colonization is so entrenched into our families, transgenerational into
generational trauma. And I think the way that, yeah, it is,
it's a huge topic. The beautiful thing is that your
(29:11):
work is more than just music that mob can feel,
but it's like advocating for change and like this kind
of like reclamation of our stories through acknowledging the colonial
experience and racism and why people might fall through the
cracks and might make some decisions, but also like helping
to sort of put this in people's face and being like, hey,
(29:32):
this is the message. It's not just a music that
you're making for yourself or for your career, and like
maybe other Migaloo writers, but this is about creating change.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Will be back you, mob right after this short break, I.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Want to ask you a little bit about you know
you mentioned before I've Got three Little Ones and he
wrote a beautiful song with Stan Walker called Father's Eyes.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
A second.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
This farther, so.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
You know, kind of building on this notion of, you know,
the black male experience being a black father, and you're right,
it was a tactic to break up our families in
that way. And so yeah, it's a beautiful song, bro,
I love it so much. How is becoming a dad
kind of influenced your perspective on some of your new music?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Just in life in general everything and that includes my music.
Being a father has changed everything for me. First became
a father five years ago now, back in twenty nineteen,
my daughter was born. And you know, before that, I
was very lost. I was heavy in addiction, I hated myself.
I had no like self love, I had no self confidence.
(30:56):
I think when you listen to a lot of my
music back then as well, hear it. I was like
still trying to figure out who I am. As a person,
and around the time that she was born, being an
addiction and all that stuff. You know, I thought that
when she was born, I was going to just change.
I thought, when she's born, I'm going to stop doing
drugs and I'm going to stop drinking and all this,
and it just didn't happen like that. She was born
(31:17):
and I was there when she was born, like me
and her mother went together at the time, you know,
so it was like I was there when she was born,
but then I was born the next day. I was
still seeing her, like she would come to my mom's
like just still a newborn, and when she was at
my mom's, I'd stay at my mom's. And wasn't until
about three months in, when she was three months old,
that I was like, I'm not being the father that
(31:37):
I know I want to be. I started thinking about
my own father, and you know, my father left when
I was about six years old. He had his own addictions,
he had his own traumas, he had his own stuff,
stuff I never thought about until having a kid myself.
I always said I never wanted to be like my father.
You know. I didn't make my dad again until I
was about fourteen. I knew the impact that I had
on me, and I just knew I'd never ever wanted
(31:59):
to do that to my kids. So when I started
seeing myself become my father, it was like a moment
for me of like something needs to change, and it
took for me. All it really took was for me
to tell people, this is how I'm feeling and I
have a problem. Still to this day, I'm very fortunate
enough to have the best support around me. I reached
(32:20):
out to some people that I'm very close with, and
they just didn't stop trying to get me into a
detox and get me into rehab. I said I was
ready and I wanted to do it, but it took
a few times for them to drive me to the
door of detox and I was like, I'm not going,
but they didn't stop. Every day they called and they
called just to make sure I was alive at such
a dark point in my life. And I ended up
(32:41):
going to detox and I was in detox for about
two weeks and then I was in rehab for about
four months. And those four months in rehab were like
the longest I've ever been away from drugs and alcohol
since I was like fourteen fourteen. When I first started
taking like drugs, it was almost instantly, like at fourteen,
I was doing them every weekend. As soon as I
(33:03):
got that taste for it. It was like I was
smoking yandy every day and I was popping ecstasy pills
on the weekends, you know, And it was just an
every weekend thing, and I never ever questioned it, you know,
because everyone was doing it. So if it took me
to be in rehab and take that time away, and
I was seeing my daughter every weekend, every weekend leave
that I had, and the more I had daytox from
(33:24):
those drugs and the more time I spent with my daughter,
it allowed that love to come through. And I just
got this overwhelming feeling of love and connection. And it
come with a lot of guilt as well. Even though
she was only three months old. I just started feeling
this massive amount of guilt. Could have carried this on
and she would have felt like me as a kid.
(33:47):
So there was all that guilt. And then with that
guilt came that self reflection. And I had so much
time to self reflect on like I don't want to
be that person, you know, And when I come out
of rehab, I started connecting back to culture more as well.
And connecting back to culture was a massive thing for me.
That was the turning point for me. And when my
daughter was about eighteen months old, I ended up getting
(34:10):
custody of my daughter and my daughters, I've had custody
ever since this. Then she was going to be five
in April. Being a full time father, also balancing this stuff,
it had to change me. You know, there was so
much things I had to change about myself, especially being
a father to a daughter, being a young father. I
was all the time, and I had, like, you know,
(34:31):
I was in different relationships and all this and it's like,
but having a daughter made me sit back and think,
I don't want my daughter to see me just with
different women all the time. I don't want my daughter
to think that that's normal. I want my daughter to
see me and I want to lead by example of
the standard of what men she should have in her life.
And I still live by that today, trying to be
(34:52):
a good man in front of my kids because I
want my kids to see that. I want my kids
to see with my partner, I'm like the love I
have for her and stuff like that is especially having
a son now as well, again leading by example, also
me wanting to There's so many things that I want
to teach him as a man that I didn't get
talked by my father. There's so much that's changed, and
the way that appears in my music is I think
(35:15):
just the growth. I'm speaking about a lot of different
stuff now, and I'm coming from a place of experience,
where before it was like I'm coming from a place
of I'm not sure about my addictions, I'm not sure
about myself, I'm not sure about you know, like those
kind of things. So and now I'm like, I'm speaking
from experience that this is what I've been through, this
is my story, and if that can help other people,
(35:37):
especially young people that are going down that same path,
then that's what I'm writing for, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
So I just want to say, yeah, thank you for
sharing that. I think sometimes like we think about addiction
being something so far away from us, or it's like
someone who's doing it so tough and you have to
like hit rock bottom, I guess, but there are a
lot of people that probably li is thing who's you know,
battling cycles of addiction or has had a touch all
(36:02):
of us in some way, and it's so beautiful to
hear these stories, to normalize these yarns, you know, in
thinking about this conversation, thinking about you know, where you've been,
where you're going with the studio, bringing young mob along
the journey, helping to lay these foundations, you know, any
advice for any of our young mob right now who
(36:24):
are listening, who might be wanting to get into hip
hop or music generally, or just feeling their feels as
a young person trying to navigate right now.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I always say, like, whenever someone asked me advice for youth,
I always say, be yourself. Be one hundred percent yourself,
you know, never be afraid to be who you are.
And as far as like hip hop and stuff like that,
I'd say, like, tell your story. One a story is
so unique, but there's also a lot of people that
(36:54):
might be going through something similar. But your story is
your story, and your story needs to be heard. So yeah,
I just say, be true to yourself and tell your story.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
So simple but so so power such a courageous act.
Just to be yourself, never forget who you come from,
never forget where you're going, and yeah, to tell your story.
You know, it's funny in my line of work is
a coach and is holding space for doing group working community.
You know, there's nothing more powerful and like special and
(37:27):
sacred than having a space, like you say, where mob
can make sense of their lives and their experiences and
share their yarns and share their stories. Where can we
catch you? If we got any gigs on any shows?
Where can people come and see some of your magic?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
This year, got my block party on the twenty third
of April, so that happens here in Maruba, pre event
for everyone, and it's like free food. Yeah, it's like
everything's free.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Well what a telly way to give back and sort
of come back and do all these things for your
local community there.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I love that this is the fee this year.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I love it. Well, we'll pop these in our show
notes so people can come along. Also pop Kobe's d's
all of his socials and handles so you can, yeah
follow along, because I just can't wait to see yeah
where you continue and evolve as a as a man,
as a warrior, and then as a musician. So thank
you so much for being on the show today and
(38:23):
sharing these beautiful yarns. Thank you, thank you so much
for listening you mob. If you are vibing this season
of yarning up, then please head over to Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts from to show us
some love, rate and review. Alternatively, you can get in
(38:45):
contact and give us some feedback by visiting www. Dot
Caroline Coow dot com dot au
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Welcome to Yarning Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
(00:26):
proud barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the Runderi people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
and always will be unseated aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.
(00:54):
While I'm really looking forward to today's conversation, I'm in
the presence of Gomera greatnit. I'm really looking forward to
connecting with this singer, songwriter, rapper, someone who is truth telling,
storytelling and connecting with a lot of our young ones
and Australia more broadly. Yeah, today I'm sitting down with
(01:16):
Kobe Duncan, or as we know him as Kobe d
Welcome to the show, my bro.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
No, thank you sis, I'm glad to be here and
thanks Echs for having me on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I was super fan girly because I got an opportunity
to see you perform in the flesh this week at
the Followship program. Yeah, it was such a beautiful space
that was created, and it was just so nice to
sort of hear you perform and the work that you're
doing to support young ones along the way.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, it was mad down there just to see everything
that they've been doing over the past twelve months. I
think they said they've been doing the workshop stuff waren
And then I did that men's workshop earlier on in
that day and I could just feel the connection between
the men there, the young men there, and yeah, it
was just it was a powerful day. And then just
to yeah, be there to celebrate them finishing up was mad. Well.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
As we do on this show, we always like to
start by getting to know you, So I wanted to
start bro with yeah, just talking about who's your mom
and maybe share a little bit about where you grow up.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah. So I'm a Gonemorray what Whatdy man Gomory for
my father's side and Wady Whatdy from my mother's side.
But I grew up here on Biggal Country, born and
raised here on Bigical Country, and I'm still here today.
You know, my partner is a vigical woman, and you know,
so my son Easy, he's a bigical man, and you know,
so it's like it feels good to be out here
and still living out here because I'm waddybody. So it's
(02:40):
still part of the durable nation. So same like nation
up here as well, So in a sense, I'm still
living on country as well, and so it feels good
like I've always I've grown up here and I have
the privilege of learning a lot of culture out here,
you know, through school and stuff like that, as as
through preschool learning language and stuff like that. And then
(03:01):
in school we had it was very fortunate enough to
be able to do dancing and and all that stuff.
So that's why I love still living in this area,
you know, And I love that I can say that
with my kids as well.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
How special to be able to kind of like anchor
your roots in a place where your land, your country,
your people, and then be able to share that with
the little Jarjians as well. I imagine that's a really
special to stay. You grew up in Marubra, is that right? Yeah? Yeah,
So it's like what a beachside town and like the
eastern suburbs of Sydney or.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Like, yeah, so it's like you know where Laparous.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We're just like pretty much right next to Laparous. You know,
You've got Laparos and you've got Maruba, Malaba, Little Bay
and Laparous south East Sydney, and yeah, we've got the
beach like five minutes down the road. You know, it's
a beautiful area. For me, It's I think we took
for granted living so close to the beach, especially when
I started going back up to more area and that
(03:57):
and there's no beaches out there, and I start like, lie,
and I should be going under the beach a lot more,
you know. Yeah, this is this is where I feel
most at home. You know. I've tried to live other places,
moved back to May for a bit when I was younger,
in my younger days and just trying to reconnect back
with family and stuff like that, you know. And I've
lived on the Central Coast for a little bit, but
I've always found myself back here. I even lived in
(04:19):
the city here in Sydney a little bit, which is
only half an hour from here, and even that didn't
feel the same, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And what was Maruba like growing up as a young
fella and what was it like for you.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I had its pros and cons, you know. I think
as a lot of neighborhoods growing up, I was always
you know, we was always out till the street lights
come on, you know, and I loved love that as
a kid. And all my mates they live so close. Yeah,
we'd just be out all the time. You know. It
was fun and I loved being out here. But then
there was also you know, we're exposed to a lot
(04:50):
of different things. There's a lot of drugs and alcohol
in Marubra and noways fights and stuff like that. So
there was always that side of it too, But it
was always exciting. I guess there's always something exciting happening.
As I got older, quite a down a lot. But yeah,
I've always just I've always loved growing up here, and
like I said, I just can't get away. I want
(05:11):
to do more here as well, you know, like I'm
about to open a studio here in Muruba, you know,
and I want to continue to do that stuff. I
feel like so many people are just like I'm working
to get out of here, you know, and for me,
it's like I'm working to stay here and build here,
you know, create like the things here in this community
(05:31):
that I want to see for our kids, you know,
our next generation. And that's what keeps me here as well.
Is like, I just feel like there's so much to
do here in my community and it definitely keeps me
still here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
A lot of us who yeah want to move out,
like you say, as fast as we can. But you know,
tending to our roots, coming back to where we've grown
up and helping to build and shape the community where
you're from is yeah pretty special. Look, bro, you have
been described as a powerful and master storyteller Triple J.
I've also called you one of the most exciting new
(06:04):
voices in Australian hip hop. I mean, you have been
making music on a public stage for the last seven years.
When you released your first song right.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Now, right now, right now, I'm gonna get on that
right now.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What inspired you to start getting into music.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I've always been involved with music. I've always loved music.
I also come from a family that loved music as well.
My mom was always someone that she always had music
on when she was cleaning, or she always had music
on when she was doing something, you know, So I
think I picked it up at a young age, listened
to like Ausha and Erica Bardou and all those kind
of artists. So I always grew up with music. And
(06:44):
my uncles were really good guitar players. They were living
in Casino on Bungelong Country, go up there and we'd
see them. They were just some of the best guitar players,
like even to this day, like I still feel like
they're the best guitar players ever, you know. And they
just could play any song and they taught themselves. Found
a bit of a passion for guitar when I was
younger because of my uncles, and I think just growing up,
like I started dancing a lot more too, like traditional dancing,
(07:07):
but also like hip hop dancing, and I just found
like a love and a passion for it. It was
around like ten years old when I first wrote my
first rap, and that was coming from experience of listening
to my mom listened to Easy and that was just
something about Easy does that the song was, and it
was something about it. I don't know what it was,
but it was like something in me was like I
want to do this, or it is something in me
(07:29):
that said I can do this, And so I wrote
my first rap, and I was just pulling together just
different things that I've heard in different raps and you know,
then coming up with my own rhymes and thinking about
stuff that a ten year old shouldn't have been swaging about.
But it was like it was my first experience of
like creating something like that, you know, telling a story
(07:50):
like that. And then I showed my mom, and my
mom was like, my mom was a bit surprised that
I could even rhyme, that I could eat like at
such a young age, you know. But she was like,
you can't be talking about that stuff because I was
just copying Easier, you know, speaking about stuff I didn't
even know anything about, you know, but that's what I heard,
and I it's the same way today, you know, like
(08:12):
I speak about things that I see, I speak about
things that I hear. I speak about things that happened
in my life, you know. And so it turned into
speaking about what I heard from other artists like Easier,
and then it turned into speaking about what I see
in my community, and it turned into speaking about what
I feel and all these different things, and I just
(08:32):
kind of let myself become the vessel for storytelling of
the things that I experienced, things that I see, and
over the years, like I've I've learned to understand it more.
As a young fan, I'm like, I'm just a rapper,
you know, I just I'm just good at it. But
for now, like I think it's it's a much deeper thing.
You know, people are storytellers, and now people were the
first original storytellers. You know, everything that we learned was
(08:57):
passed down through song, dance art, and it was all stories.
We didn't have anything written down, Like we have thousands
and thousands of years of knowledge from just words to mouth.
Things that happen like fifty years, sixty thousand years, you know,
that have just been passed down through stories. So for me,
I feel like it's there's something in there that from
(09:19):
our ancestors that like, you know, in our genes that
were made for storytelling. Even like sitting here and like
when you've made like this podcast, you know, it's a
space to sit here and tell our stories, and it's
I feel like it's just in our genes. So for me,
I just feel like I'm just carrying on that tradition
of storytelling, but telling the stories of today. And these
(09:41):
are the songs that are going to be heard for
generations to come, you know. So that's the way I
see it now, and that's that's definitely why I will
never change that about my eyes. I'm always going to
tell stories, and I'm always going to speak about stuff
that means stuff to me and what I want to
bring awareness to well, because it's a form of education
(10:01):
as well to educate people.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, you're right, bro. Like Black Fellows, it inspires me
and blows my mind in so many ways, like we
all have this innate desire to share Black stories to
being the business of truth telling of black joy, just
to see how mob are continuing these like ancient traditions
(10:24):
but in like this more contemporary way, and the storytelling
process is still ongoing and evolving like us. The thing
I really admire about your music is that you don't
shy away from telling some of the hard yarns too,
and some of these experiences like being a young black
man growing up in so called Australia, the realities of
(10:47):
our lives and how tricky they can be. You know,
some of the stories that you share in your yarns
are so powerful, but they're also difficult at times to listen,
listen to you know their your lived experiences. One of
my favorite songs of yours is Jody back to.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Where this story is again Little Jody cousin Cody and
their best friend Ben. They used to play and pretend.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I love that song, and I want to just sort
of speak a little bit about like yourd of creative
writing process and writing from your lived experience, songs like
Jody and about a girl and role models like how
do you sit back and kind of make sense of
these feelings and experiences and then convert them into art.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, it's most of those songs, they come from pure emotion, Yeah,
And it was from a spark of inspiration of feeling
moved by maybe a story that I've heard, from something
that I had experienced that day. Something image just says
you need to write about that. I need to create
(11:54):
a story to explain what I'm feeling. And that's where
a lot of that come from. Like Jodi. I wrote
Jodi when I was like eighteen, even about a girl,
like I wrote about a girl not long after she
was seventeen, going out and smoking we with the dope
things follows a frind scene and this life I wrote
this life, Like around the same time, this last thing,
(12:15):
I'm pretty this last thing, this slack, my one day
break break, this slack might take my soul. Around that time,
when I had so much going on in my life,
I was feeling all these different emotions and I just
had a lot of different experiences that I just had
something in me that she said, you need to write,
you need to write, you need to write about this.
And I still get that today, And like that's what
(12:38):
makes it hard with being in the industry now because
it's like for me, I used to just write whenever
I got that feeling, you know, and I'd never forced
myself to write. So now where I'm in the industry
and there's deadlines and there's there's expectations, and there's all this,
and it's like it's very different now to where I'm like,
all right, this is I need to be here on
(13:00):
this set day and I need to write. But I
still get those statistics. But am I being realistic but
trying to get this message to the ones that might
have missed it. We only get one life, so why
risk it?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Fuck?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Being a statistics an example of I had that feeling,
and I got that feeling you know, and that was
just I just so happened to already be in the
studio working on a different song that day. You know,
that feeling just comes and goes sometimes, and that feeling
from for Statistic, come from a conversation with my producer,
(13:33):
who is non Indigenous, you know, and just all all
it started was was just speaking about that feeling of
being as young as ten and feeling like I'm going
to go to jail at some point in my life.
Just speaking about that, and then I got that feeling
of because hey said it to me, he goes, we
should put that down. And I just had that feeling of, yeah,
it is, It's an important story to tell. And I
(13:55):
didn't know which direction that song was going to go,
you know. I just started off speaking about that and
then it turned into what it did. And it was
one of those songs like Jody songs, like about a
Girl and Statistic, like those three. I had kind of
the same process. Like when I was eighteen, I used
to just be able to write whenever I wanted. You know.
(14:17):
Now I've got like three kids and my life. Yeah,
I can't just sit there and just write, you know,
but we've Statistic, like we've so gone back to Jody
that song. Like I started writing because something had happened.
I don't know if I've seen something on the news
or I've seen it was something to do with someone
(14:40):
had gone to jail and people were just like putting
them down. Seeing something. I wanted to speak about story
where it shows the background of why they ended up
in jail. At the end, you here, like Ben and
Cody they leave with the money and like all this stuff,
and Jody ends up dying, and you know, but I
wanted to tell their backstories and how they ended up
in position, because once that happens, the news reports Jodi
(15:04):
died rubbing a bank, Cody and Ben two fugitives on
the run, you know, and people are just like, oh
my god. But then when you hear that whole story
feel for them. For me, that come from I remember
sitting at I was at my mates. He's telling me
about his uncles. They come in and he's like, oh,
they done. They were robbing a bank like this is
and that, And I remember just being young and thinking
(15:24):
like what they rubbed the bank? And I know that
stuck with me. And then hearing about that because like
back in the day. It was obviously a lot more
common than what it is today, but that story like
stuck with me. And then looking at his uncle. I
grew up with his uncle, you know, I grew up
back and could never see him for that. That was
kind of an inspiration for that as well. But yeah,
going back to it was just like I wanted to
speak about what people don't see. So I sat up
(15:47):
all night until like three in the morning, three four
in the morning, until I finished that song, and that
was just sitting in my bed, I had headphones on.
Finish that. And then about a girl. I wrote that
not so long after, and that was an experience of
one of the girls in my neighborhood. I remember seeing
her and remembering her. No, she had been on drugs
(16:08):
and stuff, and I just remember seeing her and kind
of remembering before she went down that path. And the
story wasn't one hundred percent about her, like it was
obviously added different things with different stories that I heard,
but it was inspired just by that, and I thought,
I want to I want to tell that story. And
I wrote that until the sun come up, you know,
like I just sat there all night because I couldn't
(16:28):
stop writing. And then statistic was the same. I started
in the studio and I wrote a few bars, and
then I went home and it was like I try
to go to sleep, and I'd just like I'd be
up and I'd just be writing again. And those type
of moments are special. So like, yeah, my writing process
is very different. A lot of the time. Sometimes it's
(16:49):
like it's I'm going in there and I'm just like,
I'm just going to write what I can today. And
sometimes it might I might get that feeling in the
middle of writing. Sometimes I have a warm up, right,
and I'll like write to beat off YouTube just for
to get me warmed up, and then I would start
working on the beat that I want to work on.
You know. Yeah, it's different. That's what being creative is.
(17:09):
You just let it flow and you do whatever feels right.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It sort of circles back to that point you were
saying earlier about you know more being some of the
oldest storytellers. Is I imagine when you're in that flow
and you're in that state, it's just the ancestors like
pouring through you whatever needs to come out. And I
think this is the thing that you do so well, bro.
I mean there's many things. I know that you're doing
so much stuff outside of just music, but sharing these
(17:35):
yarns for young fellows. But you know, I think sometimes
it is very easy to think of in a story
like the good, the bad, or the victor the villain,
you know, even with black followers that were either you know,
good or bad or you know, just real binary sort
of projections of who we are that really don't see
all the complexities of why people who are experiencing pain
(17:58):
might make decisions that an't the best for them as
a way to sort of survive and cope. And I
think this is the thing that you do so beautifully,
is you portray the depth of a story and we
get to see so much of this character. But I imagine,
you know, when you're trying to keep everyone happy now
(18:20):
that you're within industry, finding time to honor the story,
honor your own lived experience, make sense of some of
these things in your life, would be would be tricky?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, because it's like I always want to
stay true to myself as well, you know, And yeah,
I definitely want to experiment and try new things with music,
but I don't want to ever be in a position
of like, I'm just doing this to see if people
like it. It's always coming from a place now of
like making music that I want to make and I'm
(18:51):
making music that feels right to me. It's always just
staying true to myself and that that's what I keep
telling myself, you know, is like is this me? And
said it to me before? They said, like, because I
made a song and then they're like do you like it?
And I'm like, yeah, I guess I said, like people
might like it, and they're like, but is this something
that you would listen to? As like, no, it's actually not.
(19:13):
And that was a moment for me of like I
shouldn't be making anything that I wouldn't listen to, just
thinking that oh maybe someone else will listen to this,
you know. So yeah, I try to try to stick
with that now and open in this studio in my
neighborhood as well. It's like there's gonna for me creatively
or be massive one having my own space to to
go and be creative. And you know, because having kids.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
At the moment, where do you find the time?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah? Yeah, and it's like everything is very scheduled, you know, creatively,
it's going to be massive but also I think working
with young people for me is something. The more workshops
and stuff that I've done with young people, because that's
what these studios about. It's about getting young people in
and teaching them how to make music and stuff. That's
the whole aim for this video. The more workshop stuff
(20:01):
that I have done in the past, the more like
it inspires me because I'm watching these young people learn
to make music for the first time, and it takes
me back so when I was first learning to write
and learning flows and learning how to put certain words
together and melodies and like all these things. Teaching young
people reminds me of how I started. It's so inspiring.
(20:25):
So I'm just I'm super excited to have a space
like that here because we don't have anything like that.
You know, our people are so creative. I feel like
it's good that we have so much sports, like we
have so much things. We have so many gyms here.
We have so much to do with sports and physical activity,
and that's great, Like we need physical activity, but our
people also need a creative out that and we need
(20:48):
these spaces where we can express ourselves through art and
stuff like that. You know, when I was in down
in Nam where we did the young Men's workshop in
the morning before the graduation for the Followship, and we're
talking about like so much about blah blah boys that
go to jail and they paint and they just paint
(21:08):
in it and that it's the most beautiful pains ever.
And then they come out and they stop painting and
you don't see them paint at all. And it's like,
imagine if they had a space where they could go
and they could you know, they had the resources to
go and paint freely, and because it's like it can't
just be a place that they just do it when
(21:29):
they're in jail, because then it's like they feel like
they can only express themselves in those certain places, you know,
creating that space for people to feel comfortable to come
in and to create, because that's what that's what we're about,
such creative people. So just I'm super excited to create
that space for so many young people around you.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So deadly, and this is the beautiful thing about like
Black followers in arts. You know, not only are you
making music so that us other Black followers and the
colony can you know, make sense of ourselves, make sense
of each other, but then also thinking about how we
create these legacies and foundations for the next gen. I
mean that sounds amazing. So you'll be starting up a
(22:10):
studio where young fellows can come down and yeah, like
learn how to do some freestyle and learn how to
like put down some tracks and kind of just make
sense of their lives.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, well all of it really like beats, be able
to learn to make beats, a lot of podcast room
in there, like people if they want to start their
own podcasts. You know, we're going to have like a
room there for that pretty much anything to do with
music to We're going to be teaching in that. You know,
kids can learn and make their own beats for their
friends that rap, yeah, singing, like all of that, Like
(22:42):
we're going to have it all, you know, amazing, super exciting.
And then yeah, the podcast room is like just another
element of storytelling and creativeness that so many good yarns
that are going to come out of that, and just
another platform for young people to make for themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's like real mind blowing when you think about it,
and even you said it before about like you're sharing
stories and we're doing podcasts and thinking about young fellaws
like creating these like time capsules or archiving some of
these stories like for the public, but for themselves and
to just have them permanently there. Yeah, that's that's amazing
to hear that you're creating a studio a place for
(23:19):
you to go right and to share with the mob there.
I want to I want to kind of flip back
to what you were saying before a little bit about
your new song Statistic. And you know, the song starts
with you know, pitch yourself being ten years old and
having visions stuck in a prison caused by the stories
that we're told. I mean, the feat is incredible, but
(23:39):
the lyrics are so powerful talking about you know, as
black fellows, we you know, we we believe what we
what we hear and what we see about us and
that we are these statistics. And this is why having
places like the studios and other places where mob can connect,
like the program that were yarning about before, is just
so important to have places for young people to come together.
(24:02):
But I want to just ask you about this latest
single and maybe if you could just share, like what
does the song mean for you and what do you
hope that you know, people who interact with it can
can feel and experience.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I think for me, a lot of it was speaking
about being a young fellow and feeling like I was
going to go to jail or still feeling like I'm
going to go to jail at some point in my life.
Speaking about that, I felt like, I know there's more
followers out there that relate to that. There was something
in there that I wanted people that have gone through
that or still feel like that to relate to that
(24:37):
and know that there's more of us that feel like that.
Even speaking with you know, my producer even he was
kind of like, what that was a moment of like,
all right, I know there's people that don't get that.
There's a lot of people that were just normal kids
and never thought about jail. For me, it was like
hear about it so much, and even just the stereotypes
of black people go to jail, you know, it's a
(24:59):
massive And think about fathers as well, like there's another
stereotype of like we're not good fathers and we don't
have fathers in the house, and these are things that
as a kid, you hear these things so much that
you just believe them, And I just thought, we just
don't have dads. I just thought it's because we're black,
you know, like we don't have dads. I thought that,
you know, my older cousins or older boys in the
(25:21):
neighborhood were going to jail because they're black. It's stuff
that we're told as kids, you know, those stereotypes. And
in this song, I wanted to speak about also black
where that comes from. And I say in one of
the lines, took our fathers and never know it, they'd
be seen again, And wonder why there's dead beat dads
our generation's pain. They speak about that because like you
think of how many fathers that they took out of
(25:43):
households and locked them up for nothing, and don't think
that that's going to have an effect on the children
and the way that the children's parents or you know,
that intergenerational trauma and that butterfly effect of taking our
fathers out of the house. That was a big tactic
for colonizers, you know, to take the fathers out of
the house. And you see it in so many places
of people of color, like they take the fathers out
(26:05):
of the house, and it's like it's part of the plan,
you know. And I wanted to speak about that and
I wanted to speak about, yeah, where all that comes from,
because we didn't have no prisons before colonization, you know, Like,
how can we be the most incarcerated people in the
world and it be our fault when we didn't even
have prisons before white people came, Like, it just doesn't
make sense. So I wanted to speak about that stuff.
(26:26):
And then I wanted to speak about so many of
them dying at young ages, you know, and speaking about
not seeing our olders make it past eighty, or not
seeing a lot of our elders make it into the
older ages because of the substances and the foods and
like all these things that were introduced to us that
have just ruined our bodies and a big reason why
(26:48):
we're so high in heart attacks and diabetes and all
these different things because of colonization, you know. Like for me,
it was like I wanted to just remind people, like
this is why you know, people love to you know,
like white people love to say, oh, if we never came,
you would still be walking around naked, and we like
(27:12):
or they'll say, like, give us that technology back if
you don't like the white man, and like, we made
your lives better and It's like, how were the highest incarcerated,
with the highest rates of suicide, with the highest rates
of in the in the healthcare system. Thing is just
like how can you say our lives are better now?
And it's hard to put that in such a short
song too, yeah know, And I think for me it's
(27:34):
like it starts a conversation at least. And you know,
I copped a lot of racist comments on it as well,
like because you look up the life expectancy before colonization
and there's like one thing about it, and someone's like, oh,
we just live to forty. I do not believe that
for a second, Like how can we have had no diseases,
no sicknesses, no nothing, no sugar like no other the
(27:58):
bad sugars and lived on such a healthy diet and
you're telling them we only lid to forty.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You don't have to look too far to have a
look at the Iaceis map where you can see like
thousands of different language groups, nations, families, clans like working
together with this like complex system of working with each other,
working with land, working with water. To know that we
weren't like thriving in abundance, I mean we wouldn't have
(28:25):
been able to have that many mobs and groups if not.
I mean the fact that we're able to maintain our
own ways and customs and knowledges is pretty telling. And
I think this is the thing that it's just so
so special about your music is that, yeah, you do
talk about this like black male experience. Migeloos have this
view that you know, where unwell or unhealthy because we're
(28:49):
all criminals and we're all you know, not eating vegetables
and going to the doctors and all of that. But
there are like this real pervasive systemic racism. The impacts
of colonization is so entrenched into our families, transgenerational into
generational trauma. And I think the way that, yeah, it is,
it's a huge topic. The beautiful thing is that your
(29:11):
work is more than just music that mob can feel,
but it's like advocating for change and like this kind
of like reclamation of our stories through acknowledging the colonial
experience and racism and why people might fall through the
cracks and might make some decisions, but also like helping
to sort of put this in people's face and being like, hey,
(29:32):
this is the message. It's not just a music that
you're making for yourself or for your career, and like
maybe other Migaloo writers, but this is about creating change.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Will be back you, mob right after this short break, I.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Want to ask you a little bit about you know
you mentioned before I've Got three Little Ones and he
wrote a beautiful song with Stan Walker called Father's Eyes.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
A second.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
This farther, so.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
You know, kind of building on this notion of, you know,
the black male experience being a black father, and you're right,
it was a tactic to break up our families in
that way. And so yeah, it's a beautiful song, bro,
I love it so much. How is becoming a dad
kind of influenced your perspective on some of your new music?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Just in life in general everything and that includes my music.
Being a father has changed everything for me. First became
a father five years ago now, back in twenty nineteen,
my daughter was born. And you know, before that, I
was very lost. I was heavy in addiction, I hated myself.
I had no like self love, I had no self confidence.
(30:56):
I think when you listen to a lot of my
music back then as well, hear it. I was like
still trying to figure out who I am. As a person,
and around the time that she was born, being an
addiction and all that stuff. You know, I thought that
when she was born, I was going to just change.
I thought, when she's born, I'm going to stop doing
drugs and I'm going to stop drinking and all this,
and it just didn't happen like that. She was born
(31:17):
and I was there when she was born, like me
and her mother went together at the time, you know,
so it was like I was there when she was born,
but then I was born the next day. I was
still seeing her, like she would come to my mom's
like just still a newborn, and when she was at
my mom's, I'd stay at my mom's. And wasn't until
about three months in, when she was three months old,
that I was like, I'm not being the father that
(31:37):
I know I want to be. I started thinking about
my own father, and you know, my father left when
I was about six years old. He had his own addictions,
he had his own traumas, he had his own stuff,
stuff I never thought about until having a kid myself.
I always said I never wanted to be like my father.
You know. I didn't make my dad again until I
was about fourteen. I knew the impact that I had
on me, and I just knew I'd never ever wanted
(31:59):
to do that to my kids. So when I started
seeing myself become my father, it was like a moment
for me of like something needs to change, and it
took for me. All it really took was for me
to tell people, this is how I'm feeling and I
have a problem. Still to this day, I'm very fortunate
enough to have the best support around me. I reached
(32:20):
out to some people that I'm very close with, and
they just didn't stop trying to get me into a
detox and get me into rehab. I said I was
ready and I wanted to do it, but it took
a few times for them to drive me to the
door of detox and I was like, I'm not going,
but they didn't stop. Every day they called and they
called just to make sure I was alive at such
a dark point in my life. And I ended up
(32:41):
going to detox and I was in detox for about
two weeks and then I was in rehab for about
four months. And those four months in rehab were like
the longest I've ever been away from drugs and alcohol
since I was like fourteen fourteen. When I first started
taking like drugs, it was almost instantly, like at fourteen,
I was doing them every weekend. As soon as I
(33:03):
got that taste for it. It was like I was
smoking yandy every day and I was popping ecstasy pills
on the weekends, you know, And it was just an
every weekend thing, and I never ever questioned it, you know,
because everyone was doing it. So if it took me
to be in rehab and take that time away, and
I was seeing my daughter every weekend, every weekend leave
that I had, and the more I had daytox from
(33:24):
those drugs and the more time I spent with my daughter,
it allowed that love to come through. And I just
got this overwhelming feeling of love and connection. And it
come with a lot of guilt as well. Even though
she was only three months old. I just started feeling
this massive amount of guilt. Could have carried this on
and she would have felt like me as a kid.
(33:47):
So there was all that guilt. And then with that
guilt came that self reflection. And I had so much
time to self reflect on like I don't want to
be that person, you know, And when I come out
of rehab, I started connecting back to culture more as well.
And connecting back to culture was a massive thing for me.
That was the turning point for me. And when my
daughter was about eighteen months old, I ended up getting
(34:10):
custody of my daughter and my daughters, I've had custody
ever since this. Then she was going to be five
in April. Being a full time father, also balancing this stuff,
it had to change me. You know, there was so
much things I had to change about myself, especially being
a father to a daughter, being a young father. I
was all the time, and I had, like, you know,
(34:31):
I was in different relationships and all this and it's like,
but having a daughter made me sit back and think,
I don't want my daughter to see me just with
different women all the time. I don't want my daughter
to think that that's normal. I want my daughter to
see me and I want to lead by example of
the standard of what men she should have in her life.
And I still live by that today, trying to be
(34:52):
a good man in front of my kids because I
want my kids to see that. I want my kids
to see with my partner, I'm like the love I
have for her and stuff like that is especially having
a son now as well, again leading by example, also
me wanting to There's so many things that I want
to teach him as a man that I didn't get
talked by my father. There's so much that's changed, and
the way that appears in my music is I think
(35:15):
just the growth. I'm speaking about a lot of different
stuff now, and I'm coming from a place of experience,
where before it was like I'm coming from a place
of I'm not sure about my addictions, I'm not sure
about myself, I'm not sure about you know, like those
kind of things. So and now I'm like, I'm speaking
from experience that this is what I've been through, this
is my story, and if that can help other people,
(35:37):
especially young people that are going down that same path,
then that's what I'm writing for, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
So I just want to say, yeah, thank you for
sharing that. I think sometimes like we think about addiction
being something so far away from us, or it's like
someone who's doing it so tough and you have to
like hit rock bottom, I guess, but there are a
lot of people that probably li is thing who's you know,
battling cycles of addiction or has had a touch all
(36:02):
of us in some way, and it's so beautiful to
hear these stories, to normalize these yarns, you know, in
thinking about this conversation, thinking about you know, where you've been,
where you're going with the studio, bringing young mob along
the journey, helping to lay these foundations, you know, any
advice for any of our young mob right now who
(36:24):
are listening, who might be wanting to get into hip
hop or music generally, or just feeling their feels as
a young person trying to navigate right now.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I always say, like, whenever someone asked me advice for youth,
I always say, be yourself. Be one hundred percent yourself,
you know, never be afraid to be who you are.
And as far as like hip hop and stuff like that,
I'd say, like, tell your story. One a story is
so unique, but there's also a lot of people that
(36:54):
might be going through something similar. But your story is
your story, and your story needs to be heard. So yeah,
I just say, be true to yourself and tell your story.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
So simple but so so power such a courageous act.
Just to be yourself, never forget who you come from,
never forget where you're going, and yeah, to tell your story.
You know, it's funny in my line of work is
a coach and is holding space for doing group working community.
You know, there's nothing more powerful and like special and
(37:27):
sacred than having a space, like you say, where mob
can make sense of their lives and their experiences and
share their yarns and share their stories. Where can we
catch you? If we got any gigs on any shows?
Where can people come and see some of your magic?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
This year, got my block party on the twenty third
of April, so that happens here in Maruba, pre event
for everyone, and it's like free food. Yeah, it's like
everything's free.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Well what a telly way to give back and sort
of come back and do all these things for your
local community there.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I love that this is the fee this year.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I love it. Well, we'll pop these in our show
notes so people can come along. Also pop Kobe's d's
all of his socials and handles so you can, yeah
follow along, because I just can't wait to see yeah
where you continue and evolve as a as a man,
as a warrior, and then as a musician. So thank
you so much for being on the show today and
(38:23):
sharing these beautiful yarns. Thank you, thank you so much
for listening you mob. If you are vibing this season
of yarning up, then please head over to Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts from to show us
some love, rate and review. Alternatively, you can get in
(38:45):
contact and give us some feedback by visiting www. Dot
Caroline Coow dot com dot au
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