July 10, 2024 • 48 mins
In this episode, Caroline is joined by Kristal Kinsela - fellow podcast host, experienced facilitator and an expert in supplier diversity policy. A proud descendant of both the Jawoyn and Wiradjuri nations, Kristal has worked with well-known global businesses and every level of government over the past 18 years to drive their supplier diversity efforts, giving talented Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander small businesses access to greater opportunities.
Caroline and Kristal yarn about their shared experience of taking the leap from their 9-5 into consultancy, and the joys of running podcasts focused on telling black stories. Kristal also breaks down for Caroline and you mob what supplier diversity really is, what it means and how it opens doors for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander businesses. When Kristal noticed a lack of resources on the subject here in Australia, she took her wealth of knowledge and self- published a book titled Supplier Diversity How, which is based on her proven approach (all while managing a 3 month old we might add!). So grab your headphones and access the wisdom of this passionate leader and advocate for First Nation businesses.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show!
Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here!
We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, present and emerging.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to Yanni Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
proud barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
(00:30):
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the rundery people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
and always will be unseated aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.
(00:53):
I'm super excited about my next guest, a sissy, a mother,
a podcast a business owner, an author and just an
all round legend. I have been following your work for
such a long time, Crystal, and it's just so deadly
that you're here today to connect and have a yarn.
So thank you for being here, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
For having me.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I know we've had a couple of false starts, but
we're here today and I'm so looking forward to this year.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
We had the pleasure of meeting in the flesh last
year and we're going to talk about Crystal's show Meet
the Mob. But Crystal and I are one of the
five podcasters who were signed with black Cast, which is
the first podcast network. I was in a room where
I was feeling so out of my element and I
saw you and I just felt instantly at ease. So
(01:40):
it's so nice and we're going to get to connect
in this way.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I was telling you when I met you as well,
I've been following your work as well. Isn't it crazy
how social media can connect and bring people together?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And then what was so nice was just when we
did meet face.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
To face, how that just translated in flesh because I
felt instantly connected to you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I was like, I felt like I knew you.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And I was feeling a little bit out of my
element on that day, not knowing what to expect.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Cool, and it was so nice for us to all
be acknowledged and celebrated and the work that Mara and
the team are doing to bring this network to life
and to showcase the amazing work of people like you
and myself and others. It was really special. And you're right,
sometimes social media can get a little bit of a
bad rap, I guess, but with the beauty of it
is we're already a part of a dynamic community, being
(02:30):
a part mob, but then also we get to connect
with these like minded black followers who are like in
our eco chambers and networks, and so yeah, it was
really beautiful. But I'm so excited to unpack and learn
more and more about you today because you are doing
some incredible things. I must admit I looked at your
website and a bit of a few things in preparation
(02:52):
for today, and I was just like, damn you busy.
So yeah, I'm really excited to get to know about
you today. But as we do on this show, we
always like to start with finding out a bit about you.
So where's your mob? Where did you grow up? Can
you tell me a little bit about yeah, you and
your personal story.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Look, I'm a very proud Jarwin and Maraderi woman.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I'm a fifth generation Jarin woman. So my family originate
from Pine Creek in the Northern Territory, that's my matriarchal line,
and then my grandfather was from Condobulin in central western
New South Wales. I grew up my tire childhood and
some of my adult life in western Sydney. So I
know you're from Victoria, but there's always a bit of
(03:36):
a stigma that exists when you talk about Western Sydney.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I always say good things come out of the West. Yes,
I grew up on Derrek.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Country and I moved to beer Pie Country on the
mid North Coast about eighteen years ago, and that's where
I was residing until four weeks ago when I moved
to Old Tedowa to New Zealand and starting another new
adventure over here. So I also have a German father
who I didn't grow up with, and so sometimes that's
(04:04):
a little bit foreign, but sometimes that helps explain I
don't know some nuances about me, but also how I look,
because I do look like my dad. But yeah, I'm
a mum first and foremost. I've got three children of
my own that are nineteen, seventeen, and five. And then
I've got three beautiful stepdaughters that are twenty five, twenty one,
and twenty.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
From two marriages. So lots of people, lots of.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Lives going on there, you know. Just running kids, I
think is a challenge in itself. This will be my
ninth year in business, which is phenomenal because as a
little girl growing up in housing commission in Western Sydney
to a single mother who was on welfare to say,
you've been self employed and self determined for nine years.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That's pretty incredible right in itself. I've been a bit
of a trailblazer in some respects. Amongst my immediate and
extended family. I'm a little bit unique. I don't know
if that makes me mad, but yeah, which is pretty cool. So, yeah,
I've done a lot of things. I've traveled around the
world just because I love our people. I have such
(05:13):
a desire.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I think what the thing that drives me, which will
help give some essence to why I do lots of
things and why I'm doing all the things, is because too.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Often, I mean, I've been at the brunt.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You've probably experienced it yourself, racial discrimination, prejudice, and unconscious bias,
and so I've really made it my mission through business
to really demystify and break down the bias.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
That's what i want to do.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Quite often we emphasize and we highlight the deficit narrative, right,
but I feel like when we speak into that, we
almost perpetuate that cycle. And so I'm all about and
I'm driven by let's amplify the success.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Let's amplify black excellent. And so I'm.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Really privileged to be able to have created a business
around being able to do that on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And it's a lot of hard work, but it's fun, right,
but it's right into my passion.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It's so simple. As Black followers, we do this all
the time. We always ask about people's stories. But it
gives you such an insight into who you are. And
there's a few things that you said that I'd love
to just unpack a little bit. Firstly, just as two
titters talking here, as a First Nations person going to Altarola,
how are you feeling with this process? Does it feel
like so familiar? I think for overseas listeners. You know,
(06:35):
our New Zealand is our neighboring mobs and we share
a lot of similarities. We're all very different. But yeah,
I wonder what that experience in moving has brought up
for you.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I mean, I've been coming to this country for about
eight years because my ex husband is Maudi, and so
I had that opportunity through our marriage and the birth
of our son, to be able to spend time over here,
and I always felt this. I don't know I always
felt really close and connected. Whilst we have some complexities
(07:07):
around the number of mob and different nations and different
language and dialect in Australia, there are things that are
parallel in the way our culture is to Maldi.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They have what's called tikana.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And that is sort of their set of principles around
how things are and how you behave. And I've just
noticed and I've seen, oh that's the same for us.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh yeah, that's what we do.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
The things that they call tapu is tapu for us,
so it's forbidden, you don't do that. So things like
respecting your elders and children are really important and their
children will come first, and then other silly things like
we're not really silly, but not putting anything to do
with the head on tables, particularly where you're going to
have food, like that's real tapu. Whilst this is the
(07:54):
first time I've lived out of Australia for a big
period of time, I lived in Hawaii for six months
when I was studying my undergrad I wasn't fearful in
making the transition because I feel so familiar to this
place and Maori people. There's a rich diversity of Marti
and Pacifica and there's lots of people that have shared
(08:14):
both Mary and Pacific background. Everybody's been so welcoming to me.
They've just been so, you know, I have a few
little jokes.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Going because I go, isn't there about the same number
of Maori people living in Australia as there is actually
Aboriginal in Terrestit islanders?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, yeah, so you I get upset about me coming
to your land because there's a whole lot of new
mob over there.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Right. We have little jokes about that. But I feel
like I've landed and I've hit the ground running four
weeks And in four weeks, siss, if you could imagine
what I've done in four weeks, move into a house
by a car, get two boys, enrolled and settled into school,
doing all those startup school things, join a gym because
I'm training for Mount Everest, which I leave for next week,
(09:02):
and then just trying to start life and still operate
run a business, and you know, all of those sorts
of things. So I think life is a constant juggle,
and it is about your mindset and how you respond,
how you show up, but also the routines and things
that you put in place to survive.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Right, exactly right, Like it's the it's the discipline, it's
the sacrifice, it's all of that stuff that doesn't really
make for cute business logos and slogans. It's the Yeah,
it's the foundations. If you're not nurturing self, how can
you climb out averest and get your kids into fall
and do all these things? So that's just so right.
(09:43):
And I think with that sis you know that you
mentioned before about being one of your families who have
broken the cycles, and I can really relate to that similarly.
And also we grew up in housing commissions too, and
you know, to the point you said about, you know,
combating racism and seeing us strengths. When I think about
growing up in Stoke Street and housing commissions, I really
(10:05):
feel that that taught me the foundations of community. Like
people from Afar would look at it and say, there's
impoverishment and dysfunction and people can't look after themselves. But
from where we were as kids, we always had people
around looking after ourselves and it was the village and
Mum was mostly single at the time, and so she
(10:27):
would kind of palm us off to an Arnie here
and this and that, and so there is this beauty
and like we build this resilience and growth mindset from
these environments. But the point you made about I guess
being one of the first or the trailblazers, like sometimes
I don't know, do you feel sometimes that it does
(10:47):
come at a great cost at ourselves? Sometimes Like some
days I have moments where I'm like, I'm doing something
that none of my family have ever done before, and
I'm trying to create a path that I can support
my family. But gee, it's isolating at times, and it's
scary and overwhelming, and there's no life best to grab onto.
(11:08):
It's just you and yours. So yeah, I just wanted
to ask you about that, Like, do you have moments
where you're like, far out what am I doing? Maybe
not now after being in business for nine years.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, I think I definitely do have moments like that.
I think maybe really early on in the piece, more
so because you're walking a path no one in your
family has walked. You're doing things that they've never done before,
and so then they don't necessarily understand you or what's
driving you or what's your wire around that that can
(11:41):
be really challenging. I mean, I just think about I'll
tell you quick, a really quick young But I did
my MBA, my Master of Business Administration, and I did
that at U and sw over five years running business,
running kids, and still you know, studying part time.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But I remember when it came up time for graduation.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I invited my mum to my MBA graduation and she
looked at me and she said, what is an MBA.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
What did you do that for?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
And I said, oh, well, you know, it's really good
in the business. In business, mum, you know, people will
that will give me credibility.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I said, do you want to come to the graduation?
I really love you to coach.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
She goes, no, No, I don't know what that's all about.
Now you go, that'll be fine. For a moment there,
I was hurt that she didn't want to come, But
at the same time, her worldview and her lens that
the generation she grew up in it's just so different,
and so she just doesn't understand the world that I'm
operating in. So quite often I just have to go,
(12:42):
you know, there's no judgment.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
There's with any of my family.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's we all have a right to live our lives
away that we choose, and you just got to come
at it from a place of love all the time.
So I just go, hey, that's all right, mum, I'll
send you a photo, and you know, I hope you'll
be proud. You'll be proud of that. One day the
penny might drop of how important that was for me.
And so I have moments like that all the time
(13:08):
where I go, I'm scratching my head, going, okay, they
don't get it again, but no one quite understands, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And I think then you have different types of.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Family members where you'll have family that really are like
so proud of you that they might not get it,
but they go, yeah, you're doing great. You'll have other
family that will be, oh, what, you know, who's this
flash one?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You know, who's she bignite in her self over there.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's the hardest thing I think sometimes when you get
met with that and like it's like, you don't have
to be my greatest cheerleader, but don't be running me down,
you know, like you know, you don't have to be
on the sidelines. But that whole yeah, you're too big now,
you flash one and all that it is. Yeah, it's
tricky that to navigate.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I think it totally is.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And I think probably the final thing I would say
in all of this is you actually get to choose
a family around you. And that's that is something that
I have learned so strongly since being in business is
you can choose your family. And my family is the
titlehood that sits around me, right is the other girlfriends
(14:16):
that are on the same journey. I've got also know
best maids, my best mate David Williams. You know, we're
in business, so we know what it's like to show up,
what we're doing, the purpose that we have, and how
we're driven, and we're that support network because we're all
those trailblazers that are all of a symbolar age doing
(14:39):
similar things. And so I think that also gives me
that comfort and that support is well. I have amazing, beautiful,
you know family over here that I've inherited through my life,
but I've also created new families with the people that
I choose to keep and chooses the optimum word there,
because I have friends by choice.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It's such a powerful and liberating thing to realize that, yeah,
you do have the power and the choice to decide
who you want to allow in your circle to take
up energy and to take up yeah, your time, which
is so sacred, and yeah, not everyone is going to
be ultra supportive, but I think we can surround ourselves
(15:25):
with people who are on the same page, like you say,
And also too often, I always think that people are
only able to love you through the capacity or the
lens within which they can truly love their own selves
and lives. And so often it's really not nothing got
anything to do with us. It's more about what is
going on for that individual, and like you say, meeting
(15:45):
them with more compassion and love, that's totally.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, it's taken me.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It's taken a lot of work to kind of get
really comfortable in being able to do that. Like, it's
never easy, right, there's always a journey on a very
sensitive soul, right, So I feel and experience things really deeply.
But I think I've done a lot of work on myself,
and I think the more work that you do on yourself,
(16:11):
the more at one you've become with that and more healed,
then then you have greater capacity to show that compassion
and that love to others.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And you can recognize.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That sometimes when they're yeah, whatever they're saying to you
is actually a deflection or it's indicating that's.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
What's actually going back on for them.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
We mirror the behavior, and also if we mirror who
we choose to spend time, if it's who we choose
to pick up on their characteristics and habits. I always
try my best to put myself in places and spaces
where there are people who are doing incredible things and
who are living their boldest lives, so that it continually
(16:52):
inspires me to do that. I don't want to be
that person in the room where I'm the expert. I
like to be in places where I'm not. And so, yeah,
you're right, we do have an ability when we're creating
this path, as scary as it is some days, to
do it in a way that feels right for us
and to surround ourselves with the right people. All right,
let's talk about your business, Crystal Kintella Consulting. I am
(17:16):
blown away with the amount of things that you have done.
Can you talk to us about your business? So what
is it? What do you do? Give us the loadoun.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, Well, before I get onto Crystal Consuler Consulting, I
want to kind of just take a moment just to.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Acknowledge the journey that got me to this.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I started this particular business three years ago in March
in twenty twenty one, but prior to that, I'd been
in another consulting business and it was in that consulting
business IPS Management Consultants that I was one of the
three bounding partners and help to grow that business off
(17:56):
the back of the Indigenous Procurement Policy, the Commonwealth Indigenous
Procurement Policy. And so my former business partners they had
come together in twenty fifteen when the IPP had got launched,
and then they brought me on in twenty sixteen, and
you know, we tackled, we chase the IPP. We learned
everything we could, every nuance about it, and then we
(18:16):
were almost reversing ourselves back into government departments, getting them,
educating them about their own policy, but then getting them
to come and do business with us.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And that was a phenomenal business because it had some
great success. It grew into a multimillion dollar business with
lots of staff. And I caught up with my former.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Business partners last year and you know they've got seventy
staff now.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So I left the business after five years.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Just on that like that is a huge achievement, you know,
like a small consultancy firm to grow the legs to
how that is wild. So just acknowledging that the foundations
that you mobset like.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Totally well, Listen, I was a broke black before I
actually had to start a business to create a job
for myself. And I was a sole trader and first
my first year of business, I was lucky to.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Scrounch together eighteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I was a single mum at that time of two kids,
and I didn't know what I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And so that's why I really liked to.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Acknowledge IPS in that journey, because that taught me a lot.
I learn a lot about business. I learned a lot
about procurement. I learned a lot about how things work
and how to play the game in business. And so
after five years, I realized that I wanted to be
more specific, I wanted to work in a different way.
(19:40):
COVID also gave me a values realignment to say, well,
these have been important to you, but you really need
to make.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Them more important moving forward, and that was around my family.
And so in twenty twenty one, that's when I.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Embarked on this new journey, So leaving that five years
but taking all the lessons learned and the success put
me in great steed to set up KK Consulting and
specialize in something that I'm so passionate about, which is
called supply diversity. So I know your listeners are probably going,
what the hell is supply a diversity?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I mean, that is incredible story, and I think it's
beautiful that you share that because often, even when I'm
doing coaching, and I'm sure when you're doing coaching, people
get this view that there's like overnight success and the
truth of the matter is, and it's not glamorous, but
black fellows have to work double hard for less pay.
You know, we have a lot more hurdles to jump through,
(20:33):
and so I think it's nice to give people a
true and honest reflection of where we start and where
we go and the journey. And it's not like a
seamless one. Like if you see somebody who's like killing
it in their business and he's doing really great things,
it ain't a coincidence. It's a lot of hard YAKA.
So I think it's nice that you share that and
honor that totally.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That this stuff doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Listeners, It's a journey, and you I think there's lots
troll and error, and I think if you're.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Someone like me, I'm also a risk taker.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Even my exit of IPS was something that I just
woke up one morning and I went today's the day,
and they had no warning. I go into a meeting
with my ex business partners and I say, hey, by
the way, I've decided I want to leave and I'm
going to do that. And I was out of the
business in the next four weeks and catapulted my next thing.
So you just I just know, I trust my gut
(21:26):
instinct in everything.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
With that in mind, and because I feel like people
ask me that too, sometimes say what's the secret, and yeah,
being able to not personalize any failure, I like, not
take it on like I have failed, rather something I
did didn't work, Like you know, I think that is
that is the secret.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
One.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
You have to be comfortable in improvising and taking risks.
And I think when you're like slightly impulsive, it's good
because you can just do those things. But also too, like, yeah,
not personalizing any failures or setbacks It's like we did
a workshop a couple of weeks ago and we had
bugger all people rock up, and I probably could have
gone home and thought, oh my god, no one wants
(22:08):
to come along the businesses. But I was like, oh,
maybe we got like the time wrong, or the math's wrong,
or you know, maybe it's got nothing to do with us,
you know, I think. So that is a really secret
I think about being able to just let things go
and let things come in. Let it go, let it
come in, don't take on every little thing as if
it's your personal failure, but also just knowing when it's
(22:28):
time and to just trust your own guard, trust your
own intuition.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And you know, we have the power to create what
we want to create. And so that that was for me.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
So supply diversity is just all about organizations buying from
a diverse supplier. And so in an Australian context, a
diverse supplier is an indigenous business and a business that
identifies and has been certified or registered as an average
le croture ownder business. There are other broader category of
(23:00):
what a diverse supplier might look like if we were
looking around the world. Because supply diversity is something that
came from America, from the USA off the back of
the civil rights movement.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Like an affirmative actions, a lot of strategy, totally.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, it started.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
It started with African American people, and so with something
that President Nixon at the time, back in this I
think the early sixties, he introduced this executive order that
said the US government shall buy from, you know, African
American businesses to help create some sort of equity and
parity for them. And then that expanded to other types
(23:38):
of diverse businesses in the USA, Asian owned businesses, Hispanic
owned businesses, you know, African American, Native American as well.
So in our context it's been very much driven from
an indigenous business perspective, but there are organizations here that
have global or multinational presence that do take a broader lends. So,
(24:02):
for instance, we do have some organizations that have a
very big focus, so they will determine a diverse supplier
as an indigenous business, a woman owned business, a business
owned by an lgbt i Q plus person who identifies
across there. So yeah, it can be mean lots of things.
So in the space I work with, it's primarily around
(24:24):
I'm helping. I'm a bit of an intermediary that works
between indigenous business as the supply and corporate and government
as the demand.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
You're like a black broker up in here.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Broker, Yes, trying to make these two fellows understand each
other and do more business together. So that's my primary
part of my service offering in my business, and that
looks like, you know, helping organizations around their policies and practices.
I help them around their people and culture, so training
(24:58):
unconscious bias, I deliver, and then I help them around
the engagement pieces. Sometimes they want me to help introduce
them to businesses and sometimes I'm working on the supplier
side where I'm working around capability. But those things aside
my other two kind of areas or my kind of
skill sets. And we know we all have kind of
trade areas. But because I come from an organizational development background,
(25:23):
I'm a coach. I'm an executive coach and do coaching
for individuals performance coaching. But I'm also a master facilitator,
So I've been a teacher and an adult educator, and
so I'm a lecture at UNSW and then yeah, I facilitate,
So I do lots of process facilitation and stuff like that,
which I love. I love facilitating.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah. Wow, it's so amazing to hear more about. Yeah,
the things that light you up and thinking about change.
It involves all of those things. And being able to
bring people together to create spaces for meaningful youngs is
so special. Will be back you, mob right after this
(26:09):
short break. I've got a couple of follow up questions
about supply diversity in the context of in Australia. So
what is the percentage of all government expenditure that does
(26:33):
have to be set aside rather for black businesses? Is
their targets and things.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
There is totally So if we just think about the
Commonwealth IPP they have a three percent target, which is
both a contract number, so the number of contracts has
to equate to three percent across all their contracts that
they award, and they also have a value based so
three percent of the value of contracts have to go
(26:59):
to indigenous businesses and so they can do that by
soeul sourcing going direct to indigenous businesses. They've got a
mandatory set aside, so any contract that's between eighty thousand
dollars and two hundred k they have to demonstrate how
they've considered an Indigenous business in that regard. So quite
often we'll see Commonwealth departments go anything from a dollar
(27:19):
to two hundred k they're going to try and consider
and try to award the contract to an indigenous business,
which is really.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I mean, that's that's what's bolted. If you think about
how much money the Commonwealth government spend of our tax
paid dollars, they spend fifty billion dollars a year, so
think about three percent of the volume. It's a huge part.
It's an absolutely huge part.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Can I ask two? So being in this sort of
juxtapose between governments and mob businesses sort of like at
the epicenter of all this kind of innovation and stuff,
you know, what are you seeing with black businesses? Like
can you some of the listeners through this explosion of
First Nations businesses? Because I truly, I think I've said
(28:06):
this on the show before and I say it again probably,
but I truly believe that blackfellows are the most entrepreneurial
and resourceful people ever. Like we can make lemonades and
lemon and some you know, make some scones and Johnny
cakes too. But I think what's really tricky at times
is that we don't have capital, we don't have the
(28:28):
intergenerational wealth, and so that inhibits our visions and our abilities.
So we need like these processes to exist and for
governments to actually say no, we need to make sure
that we are supporting indigenous procurement because First Nations business
is important. The more that we can self determine and
get some cash, the less we are reliant on them
(28:49):
and welfare and other things. So it's a really important initiative.
But yeah, what are you seeing with black businesses? Like
what are you exposed to in that?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
It's this huge gabet. I see a lot of everything, right,
So at one end, I'll see businesses so innovative and
so sophisticated and growing, and I'm seeing you know, small
businesses move to medium that are moving to large growing
into these really big, thriving entities. You'll see some other
(29:21):
businesses that are really just happy that they might be,
you know, a family owned business and they know where
they where they fit in their marketplace and they're really
happy to be over here.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
We do still get.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Some people that haven't really done their homework about business,
and so sometimes that takes a little bit of nurturing
a little bit of conversations about really getting them to
be really self aware about who they are. What they're
offering is is somebody buying your offering? And this is
something I constantly come back and I go, there's so
(29:54):
much publicly available data available online about what the Commonwealth
Government spends its money on who would awards contracts to you,
that there's no excuse for not doing your research. And
so I do see some businesses that they assume I'm indigenous,
I'm indigenous business. I'm going to win contracts, and so
I really try to work with them to say, you
(30:15):
want to be known because you've got the best quality
product or service, and then you're indigenous, right, So let's
focus and harness in on that. Right, what is your
unique point of difference? What's the value proposition you're bringing?
If no one's buying what you're selling, I'm sorry you
are not in business.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I meet heaps of people, right and they.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Have a passion for something, or they might be really
good at something, but it's that translation to turning it
into something that actually makes profit. So what I say
to them is you don't have to give that away,
but what you need to do is you need to
find something that's going to generate your money that then
you can actually have the time to do what you love.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
It's a bit of a balancing act.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
But if this is not going to get the wheels turning,
it's a hobby, right. What I find is that there
can be a real uncomfortableness amongst mob in talking about
wealth creation or being commercial.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Right. But unfortunately, if you want to thrive in business,
you have to think commercially. You have to think about
making money because the wheels have got to turn. It's
not about being greedy or going I'm going to be
loaded and a dollar dollar bills, but it has to
be something that you've got to find some comfortableness in
saying I'm in business. I need to make money because
(31:35):
I've got to keep the lights on and put food
on the table. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
God, it's so everything you're saying things that I've had
a million existential crisis is about. And you're right, you
can have all the gusto and enthusiasm and everything look
pretty and here we are coming by, but in the
spirit of being really open and transparent with everyone, you know,
when we started the business, we really struggled to solidify
(31:59):
who is our target market, like who is buying from us? Like,
because like you say, business is value in exchange of
goods or services, so it has to be in exchange.
And we were like, we just want to sell to
black women. That's our audience. And we wanted to We've
already got all of these relationships. We thought, I've come
from governments, I've come from treaty space. I could sort
of just bring all of my parts and pieces together
(32:22):
and cobble together a business. And we started, and yeah,
it was very It wasn't that we hit the ground
running straight away. It took you know, good twelve months
to see any revenue really come through the door. But
we spent a lot of timing who are we servicing,
who's buying? And I think this is the tricky thing
about black businesses particularly is that at its core, we
(32:43):
are like for Blackwater or we are servicing Aboriginal women
and Aboriginal communities, but there's also stratosphere where there's Aboriginal
organizations and services. We also have to have dual clients,
so we work with governments to support the Aboriginal women
and the family. So yeah, I think it can be
really tricky as a black business to be like this
(33:03):
is my niche, this is who I am, and stand
by that. I think it was really tricky for us.
We wanted to be everything to everyone and we just
almost recreated a burnout story again. And then the other
thing is that, like you say, it's just dedicating time
to get confident in those skills and those areas right,
and the money story, like you say, I still struggle
(33:26):
with it. I try to, like I don't want to
recreate the capitalist process and I don't really, but you
do have to think like a business to be sustainable.
And the other thing too is I've got staff now,
so like it's not just my livelihood, like it's four
other people that I've got to worry about. And so
that transition from being a sole trader to a small
(33:47):
to a medium to a large business, every iteration is
going to bring new challenges, some of them might be repeated.
So you wrote a book around this, like this is
obviously something you're so passionate about, supply diversity. It's a
five step guide to Indigenous business procurement. And firstly, you know,
disappreciating the labor that you have put into that because
that product will produce or has produced a no nonsense
(34:10):
guide for government to understand how to work with black businesses. So,
you know, thank you for that. If someone was to
pick up the book, what would they expect, what would
they what would they find? How would you explain the book?
Speaker 3 (34:21):
The reason I wrote the book was because there was
no literature anywhere in Australia about doing business with indigenous business.
And so the common question that I always got is, well,
how do we implement a program?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
What are the important processes or the important architecture, you know,
things that we need in order for this to be successful.
And so I mean, I'd already been working in this space.
I'd spent some time at Supply Nation before I went
into business.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I worked there in the really early.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Days when Supply Nation was known as AMS, and so
I had all this wealth of knowledge. I'd also looked
into now and I've been overseas to break the United States,
into England to London to look at their models. And
so I just went, you know what, I'm going to
put pen to paper or you know, typing I should say,
and I'm going to I'm going to write the book.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So the book is it's five steps.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's a framework, it's not a one size fits all,
So it has the ability to say these are this
is what we think is the checklist steps. You can
do it in any order, or you can follow the
order as the book goes.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
But it's just it's in a voice that is central
to coming.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
At it from an indigenous business lens. So I want
them to not only go this is what I need
to do, but this is why I need to do it,
because it's going to help. It's an indigenous business voice
that's telling me that this will work. And so I've
really tried to also.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Demystify some of the bias that exists in the marketplace.
Talk to them about what are our business challenges in
it so that they can understand. So yeah, it's been
really really successful. It's in its second edition now, which
is so cool. I facilitated a workshop in Brisbane in
twenty sixteen and I met this lady named Diane and
(36:16):
she was a visual recorder.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
So we were working together on a process facilitation. I
was facilitating, she was visually capturing the notes and we
really connected and she said to me, send me your address,
and so she sent me.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
A book, and it was her book. And her book
was called how to Bake a Book and it was a.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Step guide to writing your own and self publishing your
own book. And I met with her and she's like,
you've got a book in there. And so I met
with her back in twenty seventeen, I think it was,
and we started thinking about the idea and then I
just got so busy I just parked it. And it
(36:58):
wasn't until twenty nineteen. I just had a three month
old baby, and I go, I've got to come back
to business after having three months maternity leave. The Connect
conference that Supply Nation runs is happening in May. I've
got to get this book out.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
And the pressure was on.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So I wrote the book in four months, had it edited,
and had it printed, and launched it at the Connect
twenty nineteen event in May.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
And I only started writing.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
That in January of twenty nineteen with a three month
old baby.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But you know what, it would have just been all
flowing from your cellular level. You would have been able
to just know all of that stuff. But wow, that
is impressive for anyone out there. That is a monumental task.
Well for anyone who is listening and wants to learn
about this process, go and look at I'm going to
put this all in the show notes. But I love
(37:54):
me a practical toolkit book that I can work through steps,
especially things like managing chain and having some templates and
checklists and way to sort of navigate that. So we'll
pop the book in these show notes for anyone who
wants to learn about this, especially those who are working
in governments, are adjacent to governments, and who are providing
grants and money to mob. But on the flip side this,
(38:17):
I wanted to ask you a question because I know
you have a wealth of knowledge, but thinking about black businesses,
what advice would you maybe give somebody who is wanting
to take a step in their business, no matter where
they're at, in terms of elevating their vision and thinking
beyond where they are. I mean, have you got any
sort of practical advice or tips you'd give to business owners,
(38:39):
especially in this current climate right now?
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Look, I love a good model because I like things
that are easy to remember. So I'm going to share
with you three hours. The first one is all about research.
To me, you have to do your homework, so you've
got to understand. So if you're working here and you
want to be there, you've got to think about, well,
what's happening over there, who's there, who are the competitors,
(39:03):
who's buying? Is it the same target audience? What will
it take to scaffold to grow? You know, what am
I going to need from a resources? What's my business
model look like? So you've got to do your background research.
You've also got to run the numbers to see what
is the likelihood of if you're scaffolding and scaling. So
research is the first star, the second one. I believe
(39:25):
in all businesses it's about relationships. Relationships are key people
and organizations they buy relationships. It doesn't matter if it's
the big Woolworths of the world versus the little father
and son or family business down the road. Everything is
about relationships. And so I always think it's who do
(39:46):
you know in particular spaces. If you're wanting to diversify
or do something, you know, have you caught up everybody
you know? Have you had conversations? Do you know anybody
that's tried to do something that you're aiming to do?
Who's in like even talking to who you think might
be potential competitors, who might be potential people that are
going to buy from you, and really just sussing out
(40:08):
and trying to formulate relationships.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
That's one thing.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
As a side thing in relation to what I notice
a lot about indigenous businesses.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
We're so relational. Everything we do is about relationships.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, And I think like that is a superpower that
we often underestimate, is that we have social and community cachet.
You know, what we lack maybe in some fonds, we
bring with having access to these giant networks. So I
love that you've emphasized that. So we've got research relationships.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
And the last one is to respond, and you know
that is to respond appropriately.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
It's to take the risk. It's to do what is
necessary make it happen. It's to get the resources.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It's to just go trust, you go instinct around it.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
And so because quite often we can get to a
point where we might tackle the first to ours and
then we get scared or we're not really ready to
take that leap of faith.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
You know, I was talking to a friend just a
week ago who was.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Saying, oh, you know, but I'm the primary income earner
in my household, and if I you know, take this
leap of faith to go into business. It's going to
put more pressure on my partner, it's going to put
more pressure on my family.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
And I'm like, yeah, but what's the risk?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You know, I can see how what you're doing now
is affecting you.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
What's the risk? Give you go? Like, are you backing yourself?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
And so I think from a response point of view,
it's about actually going. I trust myself, I believe in myself,
I back myself. I'm prepared to take the risk and
yeah it might pay off. Yeah it might not, but
it will get you somewhere further than where you are right.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Now, right And that's the beautiful slash scary thing about
it is just having the courage to take action in
your life just for the sake of blowing your own
mind and be like, far out, I did that thing,
even if it doesn't produce the intended outcome. What you
learn about yourself during those scary af moments where you're
(42:11):
like at that crossroads is really where the magic and
the shit happens, really, doesn't it. And it's also unlearning,
like the conditioning around, like the security that comes with
a nine to five I know, and I see a
lot is that, you know, people might be very happy
to hum along at a nine to five, miserable live
for the weekends just you know, just kind of exist
(42:34):
during the week and because at the end of the
day the security of a paycheck. But if you're not
happy and you're feeling stuck and undervalued and overworked, and
the pros and the content starting your own business is
you do get that flexibility, You do get to choose
a workplace that suits your needs. And I think it's
(42:54):
inherently a good thing to think about. On the other
side of that fear is a payoff might look different.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
That's here there's trade offs and sacrifices with everything, right, Like,
I feel like I've done a lot of the hard
yards to now, you know, in my third year out
on my own, be able to kind of breathe a
little bit more, if that makes sense. That's the trade off,
the sacrifice I made at the early end of working
my guts out to now being able to go and
(43:23):
actually I can create space. And you know, even coming
over here to old ted Or you know, people.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Are like, hey, are you going to run your business?
And I go, what do we doing?
Speaker 3 (43:32):
COVID Yeah, we were online, bro, So it's going to
work out.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And if anyone.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Wants me in Australia, guess what they can pay me
to come home and guess what they already have. You know,
So I came back last week for a day in
and out in one day. That's the reality is I
value myself and I know those that I work with
value me as well. And so if they want the
(43:59):
value of still in the room, they're going to pay
for it.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
They're going to do it.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You are a wealth of knowledge and a beacon of optimism,
and I think it's really nice to have just no
bullshit approach to some of this stuff. And Yeah, I'm
wondering with your podcast Meet the Mob where you talk
to indigenous business owners about you know, what drives them
what they're doing. Is that a place where people can
(44:23):
come and listen to more of these tips and tricks
that you're that you're sharing today, Like, yeah, can you
talk a little bit about the show and what people
can expect in getting more of this and more of you.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Totally totally yeah, you know, Meet the Mob with something
like it's a passion project.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
To start it as a big passion project and it
started off the back.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
I'd been engaged a couple of years ago when there
was a by Black campaign and I'm not an influencer
on social media, but I was engaged to create some
content and I did and I loved it, and I
was like, Hey, this is really cool to be amplifying
in indigenous businesses. And because I'm I've been an avid
(45:07):
shopper and I have like too many clothes of black
businesses right anyway, So I was like, how do I
channel using social media and different types of medium, you know,
to kind of get out there.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
And I actually wanted to start a podcast. And then
at the.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Same time, when I was kind of putting together an idea,
Mandanara Bales launched her Black Magic Woman podcast and I
went ooh, I don't want to compete with sister Girl,
And so I initially started on YouTube because I thought
that would be a really great point of difference.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I actually watch a lot of YouTube.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
I love YouTube because I'm a really visual person, and
so that's where it started. I wanted to elevate and
amplify black business voices. I wanted to showcase success stories
and say, hey, guess what, there is some deadly black
fellows out there and they're running all these types of businesses,
but also for them to share and me to help
(46:03):
elicit some of their stories but also their tips and tricks.
And so then the YouTube channel just came about really
organically in trial and error, and it's grown now into
having that ability to get signed by Black Cast Network
and be reproduced into a podcast series, which I'm just
I was so stoked that that could happen because it's
(46:27):
been a project that i've you know, and you're probably
the same sys our passion projects.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
We self fund these.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
It's our own time and money that we invest in
these things because we care and we want to and
you know.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, so it's just so great to see where it's
going now.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
And I think it comes back to that relationship point
that you said is that we seldom do anything in
isolation as Black Fellows. We're always thinking about, Okay, if
I've got this platform, how can I share it, how
can I elevate it? How do we share more of
these beautiful and stories. And so, yeah, it's lovely to
hear that, Yeah, you're doing it your way, You're doing
(47:06):
your thing. You're sharing these beautiful inspirational stories about black
businesses and just like normalizing these yarns because there are
a lot of people like me and you and who
have kind of been exposed to working in organizations and
then stepping into your own business where that information didn't
even exist, you know, not even a decade ago, where
(47:26):
we could find easy to understand information from other business
owners who are doing doing the damn things. So yeah,
that's that's amazing. I'm going to pop meet the mob
in our show notes and encourage you all to go
over and have a listen, because, as you can tell,
you could sit and listen to you all day.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
My sis.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
You're a wealth of knowledge, and thank you so much
for being here and yeah sharing your your wisdom and
the labor and love that you provide for communities.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So thank you, oh thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
It's so good to see you and I art way
to we get together face to face.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I don't know when that's gonna happen, but baby seen.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah, next time you're in Num Num or Melbourne and
you're here for.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Work, hit us sister up will totally.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Thank you so much for listening you mob. If you're
vibing this season of yarning up, then Please head over
to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts from
to show us a love rate and review. Alternatively, get
in contact and give us some feedback by visiting www.
(48:37):
Dot Caroline Coow dot com dot au
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to Yanni Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
proud barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
(00:30):
Caroline cow. We acknowledge the rundery people and elders where
this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
that you are listening in from today. It always was
and always will be unseated aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.
(00:53):
I'm super excited about my next guest, a sissy, a mother,
a podcast a business owner, an author and just an
all round legend. I have been following your work for
such a long time, Crystal, and it's just so deadly
that you're here today to connect and have a yarn.
So thank you for being here, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
For having me.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I know we've had a couple of false starts, but
we're here today and I'm so looking forward to this year.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
We had the pleasure of meeting in the flesh last
year and we're going to talk about Crystal's show Meet
the Mob. But Crystal and I are one of the
five podcasters who were signed with black Cast, which is
the first podcast network. I was in a room where
I was feeling so out of my element and I
saw you and I just felt instantly at ease. So
(01:40):
it's so nice and we're going to get to connect
in this way.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I was telling you when I met you as well,
I've been following your work as well. Isn't it crazy
how social media can connect and bring people together?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And then what was so nice was just when we
did meet face.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
To face, how that just translated in flesh because I
felt instantly connected to you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I was like, I felt like I knew you.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And I was feeling a little bit out of my
element on that day, not knowing what to expect.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Cool, and it was so nice for us to all
be acknowledged and celebrated and the work that Mara and
the team are doing to bring this network to life
and to showcase the amazing work of people like you
and myself and others. It was really special. And you're right,
sometimes social media can get a little bit of a
bad rap, I guess, but with the beauty of it
is we're already a part of a dynamic community, being
(02:30):
a part mob, but then also we get to connect
with these like minded black followers who are like in
our eco chambers and networks, and so yeah, it was
really beautiful. But I'm so excited to unpack and learn
more and more about you today because you are doing
some incredible things. I must admit I looked at your
website and a bit of a few things in preparation
(02:52):
for today, and I was just like, damn you busy.
So yeah, I'm really excited to get to know about
you today. But as we do on this show, we
always like to start with finding out a bit about you.
So where's your mob? Where did you grow up? Can
you tell me a little bit about yeah, you and
your personal story.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Look, I'm a very proud Jarwin and Maraderi woman.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I'm a fifth generation Jarin woman. So my family originate
from Pine Creek in the Northern Territory, that's my matriarchal line,
and then my grandfather was from Condobulin in central western
New South Wales. I grew up my tire childhood and
some of my adult life in western Sydney. So I
know you're from Victoria, but there's always a bit of
(03:36):
a stigma that exists when you talk about Western Sydney.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I always say good things come out of the West. Yes,
I grew up on Derrek.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Country and I moved to beer Pie Country on the
mid North Coast about eighteen years ago, and that's where
I was residing until four weeks ago when I moved
to Old Tedowa to New Zealand and starting another new
adventure over here. So I also have a German father
who I didn't grow up with, and so sometimes that's
(04:04):
a little bit foreign, but sometimes that helps explain I
don't know some nuances about me, but also how I look,
because I do look like my dad. But yeah, I'm
a mum first and foremost. I've got three children of
my own that are nineteen, seventeen, and five. And then
I've got three beautiful stepdaughters that are twenty five, twenty one,
and twenty.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
From two marriages. So lots of people, lots of.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Lives going on there, you know. Just running kids, I
think is a challenge in itself. This will be my
ninth year in business, which is phenomenal because as a
little girl growing up in housing commission in Western Sydney
to a single mother who was on welfare to say,
you've been self employed and self determined for nine years.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That's pretty incredible right in itself. I've been a bit
of a trailblazer in some respects. Amongst my immediate and
extended family. I'm a little bit unique. I don't know
if that makes me mad, but yeah, which is pretty cool. So, yeah,
I've done a lot of things. I've traveled around the
world just because I love our people. I have such
(05:13):
a desire.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I think what the thing that drives me, which will
help give some essence to why I do lots of
things and why I'm doing all the things, is because too.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Often, I mean, I've been at the brunt.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You've probably experienced it yourself, racial discrimination, prejudice, and unconscious bias,
and so I've really made it my mission through business
to really demystify and break down the bias.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
That's what i want to do.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Quite often we emphasize and we highlight the deficit narrative, right,
but I feel like when we speak into that, we
almost perpetuate that cycle. And so I'm all about and
I'm driven by let's amplify the success.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Let's amplify black excellent. And so I'm.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Really privileged to be able to have created a business
around being able to do that on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And it's a lot of hard work, but it's fun, right,
but it's right into my passion.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It's so simple. As Black followers, we do this all
the time. We always ask about people's stories. But it
gives you such an insight into who you are. And
there's a few things that you said that I'd love
to just unpack a little bit. Firstly, just as two
titters talking here, as a First Nations person going to Altarola,
how are you feeling with this process? Does it feel
like so familiar? I think for overseas listeners. You know,
(06:35):
our New Zealand is our neighboring mobs and we share
a lot of similarities. We're all very different. But yeah,
I wonder what that experience in moving has brought up
for you.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I mean, I've been coming to this country for about
eight years because my ex husband is Maudi, and so
I had that opportunity through our marriage and the birth
of our son, to be able to spend time over here,
and I always felt this. I don't know I always
felt really close and connected. Whilst we have some complexities
(07:07):
around the number of mob and different nations and different
language and dialect in Australia, there are things that are
parallel in the way our culture is to Maldi.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They have what's called tikana.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And that is sort of their set of principles around
how things are and how you behave. And I've just
noticed and I've seen, oh that's the same for us.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh yeah, that's what we do.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
The things that they call tapu is tapu for us,
so it's forbidden, you don't do that. So things like
respecting your elders and children are really important and their
children will come first, and then other silly things like
we're not really silly, but not putting anything to do
with the head on tables, particularly where you're going to
have food, like that's real tapu. Whilst this is the
(07:54):
first time I've lived out of Australia for a big
period of time, I lived in Hawaii for six months
when I was studying my undergrad I wasn't fearful in
making the transition because I feel so familiar to this
place and Maori people. There's a rich diversity of Marti
and Pacifica and there's lots of people that have shared
(08:14):
both Mary and Pacific background. Everybody's been so welcoming to me.
They've just been so, you know, I have a few
little jokes.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Going because I go, isn't there about the same number
of Maori people living in Australia as there is actually
Aboriginal in Terrestit islanders?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, yeah, so you I get upset about me coming
to your land because there's a whole lot of new
mob over there.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Right. We have little jokes about that. But I feel
like I've landed and I've hit the ground running four
weeks And in four weeks, siss, if you could imagine
what I've done in four weeks, move into a house
by a car, get two boys, enrolled and settled into school,
doing all those startup school things, join a gym because
I'm training for Mount Everest, which I leave for next week,
(09:02):
and then just trying to start life and still operate
run a business, and you know, all of those sorts
of things. So I think life is a constant juggle,
and it is about your mindset and how you respond,
how you show up, but also the routines and things
that you put in place to survive.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Right, exactly right, Like it's the it's the discipline, it's
the sacrifice, it's all of that stuff that doesn't really
make for cute business logos and slogans. It's the Yeah,
it's the foundations. If you're not nurturing self, how can
you climb out averest and get your kids into fall
and do all these things? So that's just so right.
(09:43):
And I think with that sis you know that you
mentioned before about being one of your families who have
broken the cycles, and I can really relate to that similarly.
And also we grew up in housing commissions too, and
you know, to the point you said about, you know,
combating racism and seeing us strengths. When I think about
growing up in Stoke Street and housing commissions, I really
(10:05):
feel that that taught me the foundations of community. Like
people from Afar would look at it and say, there's
impoverishment and dysfunction and people can't look after themselves. But
from where we were as kids, we always had people
around looking after ourselves and it was the village and
Mum was mostly single at the time, and so she
(10:27):
would kind of palm us off to an Arnie here
and this and that, and so there is this beauty
and like we build this resilience and growth mindset from
these environments. But the point you made about I guess
being one of the first or the trailblazers, like sometimes
I don't know, do you feel sometimes that it does
(10:47):
come at a great cost at ourselves? Sometimes Like some
days I have moments where I'm like, I'm doing something
that none of my family have ever done before, and
I'm trying to create a path that I can support
my family. But gee, it's isolating at times, and it's
scary and overwhelming, and there's no life best to grab onto.
(11:08):
It's just you and yours. So yeah, I just wanted
to ask you about that, Like, do you have moments
where you're like, far out what am I doing? Maybe
not now after being in business for nine years.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, I think I definitely do have moments like that.
I think maybe really early on in the piece, more
so because you're walking a path no one in your
family has walked. You're doing things that they've never done before,
and so then they don't necessarily understand you or what's
driving you or what's your wire around that that can
(11:41):
be really challenging. I mean, I just think about I'll
tell you quick, a really quick young But I did
my MBA, my Master of Business Administration, and I did
that at U and sw over five years running business,
running kids, and still you know, studying part time.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But I remember when it came up time for graduation.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I invited my mum to my MBA graduation and she
looked at me and she said, what is an MBA.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
What did you do that for?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
And I said, oh, well, you know, it's really good
in the business. In business, mum, you know, people will
that will give me credibility.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I said, do you want to come to the graduation?
I really love you to coach.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
She goes, no, No, I don't know what that's all about.
Now you go, that'll be fine. For a moment there,
I was hurt that she didn't want to come, But
at the same time, her worldview and her lens that
the generation she grew up in it's just so different,
and so she just doesn't understand the world that I'm
operating in. So quite often I just have to go,
(12:42):
you know, there's no judgment.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
There's with any of my family.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's we all have a right to live our lives
away that we choose, and you just got to come
at it from a place of love all the time.
So I just go, hey, that's all right, mum, I'll
send you a photo, and you know, I hope you'll
be proud. You'll be proud of that. One day the
penny might drop of how important that was for me.
And so I have moments like that all the time
(13:08):
where I go, I'm scratching my head, going, okay, they
don't get it again, but no one quite understands, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And I think then you have different types of.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Family members where you'll have family that really are like
so proud of you that they might not get it,
but they go, yeah, you're doing great. You'll have other
family that will be, oh, what, you know, who's this
flash one?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You know, who's she bignite in her self over there.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's the hardest thing I think sometimes when you get
met with that and like it's like, you don't have
to be my greatest cheerleader, but don't be running me down,
you know, like you know, you don't have to be
on the sidelines. But that whole yeah, you're too big now,
you flash one and all that it is. Yeah, it's
tricky that to navigate.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I think it totally is.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And I think probably the final thing I would say
in all of this is you actually get to choose
a family around you. And that's that is something that
I have learned so strongly since being in business is
you can choose your family. And my family is the
titlehood that sits around me, right is the other girlfriends
(14:16):
that are on the same journey. I've got also know
best maids, my best mate David Williams. You know, we're
in business, so we know what it's like to show up,
what we're doing, the purpose that we have, and how
we're driven, and we're that support network because we're all
those trailblazers that are all of a symbolar age doing
(14:39):
similar things. And so I think that also gives me
that comfort and that support is well. I have amazing, beautiful,
you know family over here that I've inherited through my life,
but I've also created new families with the people that
I choose to keep and chooses the optimum word there,
because I have friends by choice.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It's such a powerful and liberating thing to realize that, yeah,
you do have the power and the choice to decide
who you want to allow in your circle to take
up energy and to take up yeah, your time, which
is so sacred, and yeah, not everyone is going to
be ultra supportive, but I think we can surround ourselves
(15:25):
with people who are on the same page, like you say,
And also too often, I always think that people are
only able to love you through the capacity or the
lens within which they can truly love their own selves
and lives. And so often it's really not nothing got
anything to do with us. It's more about what is
going on for that individual, and like you say, meeting
(15:45):
them with more compassion and love, that's totally.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, it's taken me.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It's taken a lot of work to kind of get
really comfortable in being able to do that. Like, it's
never easy, right, there's always a journey on a very
sensitive soul, right, So I feel and experience things really deeply.
But I think I've done a lot of work on myself,
and I think the more work that you do on yourself,
(16:11):
the more at one you've become with that and more healed,
then then you have greater capacity to show that compassion
and that love to others.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And you can recognize.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That sometimes when they're yeah, whatever they're saying to you
is actually a deflection or it's indicating that's.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
What's actually going back on for them.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
We mirror the behavior, and also if we mirror who
we choose to spend time, if it's who we choose
to pick up on their characteristics and habits. I always
try my best to put myself in places and spaces
where there are people who are doing incredible things and
who are living their boldest lives, so that it continually
(16:52):
inspires me to do that. I don't want to be
that person in the room where I'm the expert. I
like to be in places where I'm not. And so, yeah,
you're right, we do have an ability when we're creating
this path, as scary as it is some days, to
do it in a way that feels right for us
and to surround ourselves with the right people. All right,
let's talk about your business, Crystal Kintella Consulting. I am
(17:16):
blown away with the amount of things that you have done.
Can you talk to us about your business? So what
is it? What do you do? Give us the loadoun.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, Well, before I get onto Crystal Consuler Consulting, I
want to kind of just take a moment just to.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Acknowledge the journey that got me to this.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I started this particular business three years ago in March
in twenty twenty one, but prior to that, I'd been
in another consulting business and it was in that consulting
business IPS Management Consultants that I was one of the
three bounding partners and help to grow that business off
(17:56):
the back of the Indigenous Procurement Policy, the Commonwealth Indigenous
Procurement Policy. And so my former business partners they had
come together in twenty fifteen when the IPP had got launched,
and then they brought me on in twenty sixteen, and
you know, we tackled, we chase the IPP. We learned
everything we could, every nuance about it, and then we
(18:16):
were almost reversing ourselves back into government departments, getting them,
educating them about their own policy, but then getting them
to come and do business with us.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And that was a phenomenal business because it had some
great success. It grew into a multimillion dollar business with
lots of staff. And I caught up with my former.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Business partners last year and you know they've got seventy
staff now.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So I left the business after five years.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Just on that like that is a huge achievement, you know,
like a small consultancy firm to grow the legs to
how that is wild. So just acknowledging that the foundations
that you mobset like.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Totally well, Listen, I was a broke black before I
actually had to start a business to create a job
for myself. And I was a sole trader and first
my first year of business, I was lucky to.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Scrounch together eighteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I was a single mum at that time of two kids,
and I didn't know what I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And so that's why I really liked to.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Acknowledge IPS in that journey, because that taught me a lot.
I learn a lot about business. I learned a lot
about procurement. I learned a lot about how things work
and how to play the game in business. And so
after five years, I realized that I wanted to be
more specific, I wanted to work in a different way.
(19:40):
COVID also gave me a values realignment to say, well,
these have been important to you, but you really need
to make.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Them more important moving forward, and that was around my family.
And so in twenty twenty one, that's when I.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Embarked on this new journey, So leaving that five years
but taking all the lessons learned and the success put
me in great steed to set up KK Consulting and
specialize in something that I'm so passionate about, which is
called supply diversity. So I know your listeners are probably going,
what the hell is supply a diversity?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I mean, that is incredible story, and I think it's
beautiful that you share that because often, even when I'm
doing coaching, and I'm sure when you're doing coaching, people
get this view that there's like overnight success and the
truth of the matter is, and it's not glamorous, but
black fellows have to work double hard for less pay.
You know, we have a lot more hurdles to jump through,
(20:33):
and so I think it's nice to give people a
true and honest reflection of where we start and where
we go and the journey. And it's not like a
seamless one. Like if you see somebody who's like killing
it in their business and he's doing really great things,
it ain't a coincidence. It's a lot of hard YAKA.
So I think it's nice that you share that and
honor that totally.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That this stuff doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Listeners, It's a journey, and you I think there's lots
troll and error, and I think if you're.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Someone like me, I'm also a risk taker.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Even my exit of IPS was something that I just
woke up one morning and I went today's the day,
and they had no warning. I go into a meeting
with my ex business partners and I say, hey, by
the way, I've decided I want to leave and I'm
going to do that. And I was out of the
business in the next four weeks and catapulted my next thing.
So you just I just know, I trust my gut
(21:26):
instinct in everything.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
With that in mind, and because I feel like people
ask me that too, sometimes say what's the secret, and yeah,
being able to not personalize any failure, I like, not
take it on like I have failed, rather something I
did didn't work, Like you know, I think that is
that is the secret.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
One.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
You have to be comfortable in improvising and taking risks.
And I think when you're like slightly impulsive, it's good
because you can just do those things. But also too, like, yeah,
not personalizing any failures or setbacks It's like we did
a workshop a couple of weeks ago and we had
bugger all people rock up, and I probably could have
gone home and thought, oh my god, no one wants
(22:08):
to come along the businesses. But I was like, oh,
maybe we got like the time wrong, or the math's wrong,
or you know, maybe it's got nothing to do with us,
you know, I think. So that is a really secret
I think about being able to just let things go
and let things come in. Let it go, let it
come in, don't take on every little thing as if
it's your personal failure, but also just knowing when it's
(22:28):
time and to just trust your own guard, trust your
own intuition.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And you know, we have the power to create what
we want to create. And so that that was for me.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
So supply diversity is just all about organizations buying from
a diverse supplier. And so in an Australian context, a
diverse supplier is an indigenous business and a business that
identifies and has been certified or registered as an average
le croture ownder business. There are other broader category of
(23:00):
what a diverse supplier might look like if we were
looking around the world. Because supply diversity is something that
came from America, from the USA off the back of
the civil rights movement.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Like an affirmative actions, a lot of strategy, totally.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, it started.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
It started with African American people, and so with something
that President Nixon at the time, back in this I
think the early sixties, he introduced this executive order that
said the US government shall buy from, you know, African
American businesses to help create some sort of equity and
parity for them. And then that expanded to other types
(23:38):
of diverse businesses in the USA, Asian owned businesses, Hispanic
owned businesses, you know, African American, Native American as well.
So in our context it's been very much driven from
an indigenous business perspective, but there are organizations here that
have global or multinational presence that do take a broader lends. So,
(24:02):
for instance, we do have some organizations that have a
very big focus, so they will determine a diverse supplier
as an indigenous business, a woman owned business, a business
owned by an lgbt i Q plus person who identifies
across there. So yeah, it can be mean lots of things.
So in the space I work with, it's primarily around
(24:24):
I'm helping. I'm a bit of an intermediary that works
between indigenous business as the supply and corporate and government
as the demand.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
You're like a black broker up in here.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Broker, Yes, trying to make these two fellows understand each
other and do more business together. So that's my primary
part of my service offering in my business, and that
looks like, you know, helping organizations around their policies and practices.
I help them around their people and culture, so training
(24:58):
unconscious bias, I deliver, and then I help them around
the engagement pieces. Sometimes they want me to help introduce
them to businesses and sometimes I'm working on the supplier
side where I'm working around capability. But those things aside
my other two kind of areas or my kind of
skill sets. And we know we all have kind of
trade areas. But because I come from an organizational development background,
(25:23):
I'm a coach. I'm an executive coach and do coaching
for individuals performance coaching. But I'm also a master facilitator,
So I've been a teacher and an adult educator, and
so I'm a lecture at UNSW and then yeah, I facilitate,
So I do lots of process facilitation and stuff like that,
which I love. I love facilitating.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah. Wow, it's so amazing to hear more about. Yeah,
the things that light you up and thinking about change.
It involves all of those things. And being able to
bring people together to create spaces for meaningful youngs is
so special. Will be back you, mob right after this
(26:09):
short break. I've got a couple of follow up questions
about supply diversity in the context of in Australia. So
what is the percentage of all government expenditure that does
(26:33):
have to be set aside rather for black businesses? Is
their targets and things.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
There is totally So if we just think about the
Commonwealth IPP they have a three percent target, which is
both a contract number, so the number of contracts has
to equate to three percent across all their contracts that
they award, and they also have a value based so
three percent of the value of contracts have to go
(26:59):
to indigenous businesses and so they can do that by
soeul sourcing going direct to indigenous businesses. They've got a
mandatory set aside, so any contract that's between eighty thousand
dollars and two hundred k they have to demonstrate how
they've considered an Indigenous business in that regard. So quite
often we'll see Commonwealth departments go anything from a dollar
(27:19):
to two hundred k they're going to try and consider
and try to award the contract to an indigenous business,
which is really.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I mean, that's that's what's bolted. If you think about
how much money the Commonwealth government spend of our tax
paid dollars, they spend fifty billion dollars a year, so
think about three percent of the volume. It's a huge part.
It's an absolutely huge part.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Can I ask two? So being in this sort of
juxtapose between governments and mob businesses sort of like at
the epicenter of all this kind of innovation and stuff,
you know, what are you seeing with black businesses? Like
can you some of the listeners through this explosion of
First Nations businesses? Because I truly, I think I've said
(28:06):
this on the show before and I say it again probably,
but I truly believe that blackfellows are the most entrepreneurial
and resourceful people ever. Like we can make lemonades and
lemon and some you know, make some scones and Johnny
cakes too. But I think what's really tricky at times
is that we don't have capital, we don't have the
(28:28):
intergenerational wealth, and so that inhibits our visions and our abilities.
So we need like these processes to exist and for
governments to actually say no, we need to make sure
that we are supporting indigenous procurement because First Nations business
is important. The more that we can self determine and
get some cash, the less we are reliant on them
(28:49):
and welfare and other things. So it's a really important initiative.
But yeah, what are you seeing with black businesses? Like
what are you exposed to in that?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
It's this huge gabet. I see a lot of everything, right,
So at one end, I'll see businesses so innovative and
so sophisticated and growing, and I'm seeing you know, small
businesses move to medium that are moving to large growing
into these really big, thriving entities. You'll see some other
(29:21):
businesses that are really just happy that they might be,
you know, a family owned business and they know where
they where they fit in their marketplace and they're really
happy to be over here.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
We do still get.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Some people that haven't really done their homework about business,
and so sometimes that takes a little bit of nurturing
a little bit of conversations about really getting them to
be really self aware about who they are. What they're
offering is is somebody buying your offering? And this is
something I constantly come back and I go, there's so
(29:54):
much publicly available data available online about what the Commonwealth
Government spends its money on who would awards contracts to you,
that there's no excuse for not doing your research. And
so I do see some businesses that they assume I'm indigenous,
I'm indigenous business. I'm going to win contracts, and so
I really try to work with them to say, you
(30:15):
want to be known because you've got the best quality
product or service, and then you're indigenous, right, So let's
focus and harness in on that. Right, what is your
unique point of difference? What's the value proposition you're bringing?
If no one's buying what you're selling, I'm sorry you
are not in business.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I meet heaps of people, right and they.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Have a passion for something, or they might be really
good at something, but it's that translation to turning it
into something that actually makes profit. So what I say
to them is you don't have to give that away,
but what you need to do is you need to
find something that's going to generate your money that then
you can actually have the time to do what you love.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
It's a bit of a balancing act.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
But if this is not going to get the wheels turning,
it's a hobby, right. What I find is that there
can be a real uncomfortableness amongst mob in talking about
wealth creation or being commercial.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Right. But unfortunately, if you want to thrive in business,
you have to think commercially. You have to think about
making money because the wheels have got to turn. It's
not about being greedy or going I'm going to be
loaded and a dollar dollar bills, but it has to
be something that you've got to find some comfortableness in
saying I'm in business. I need to make money because
(31:35):
I've got to keep the lights on and put food
on the table. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
God, it's so everything you're saying things that I've had
a million existential crisis is about. And you're right, you
can have all the gusto and enthusiasm and everything look
pretty and here we are coming by, but in the
spirit of being really open and transparent with everyone, you know,
when we started the business, we really struggled to solidify
(31:59):
who is our target market, like who is buying from us? Like,
because like you say, business is value in exchange of
goods or services, so it has to be in exchange.
And we were like, we just want to sell to
black women. That's our audience. And we wanted to We've
already got all of these relationships. We thought, I've come
from governments, I've come from treaty space. I could sort
of just bring all of my parts and pieces together
(32:22):
and cobble together a business. And we started, and yeah,
it was very It wasn't that we hit the ground
running straight away. It took you know, good twelve months
to see any revenue really come through the door. But
we spent a lot of timing who are we servicing,
who's buying? And I think this is the tricky thing
about black businesses particularly is that at its core, we
(32:43):
are like for Blackwater or we are servicing Aboriginal women
and Aboriginal communities, but there's also stratosphere where there's Aboriginal
organizations and services. We also have to have dual clients,
so we work with governments to support the Aboriginal women
and the family. So yeah, I think it can be
really tricky as a black business to be like this
(33:03):
is my niche, this is who I am, and stand
by that. I think it was really tricky for us.
We wanted to be everything to everyone and we just
almost recreated a burnout story again. And then the other
thing is that, like you say, it's just dedicating time
to get confident in those skills and those areas right,
and the money story, like you say, I still struggle
(33:26):
with it. I try to, like I don't want to
recreate the capitalist process and I don't really, but you
do have to think like a business to be sustainable.
And the other thing too is I've got staff now,
so like it's not just my livelihood, like it's four
other people that I've got to worry about. And so
that transition from being a sole trader to a small
(33:47):
to a medium to a large business, every iteration is
going to bring new challenges, some of them might be repeated.
So you wrote a book around this, like this is
obviously something you're so passionate about, supply diversity. It's a
five step guide to Indigenous business procurement. And firstly, you know,
disappreciating the labor that you have put into that because
that product will produce or has produced a no nonsense
(34:10):
guide for government to understand how to work with black businesses. So,
you know, thank you for that. If someone was to
pick up the book, what would they expect, what would
they what would they find? How would you explain the book?
Speaker 3 (34:21):
The reason I wrote the book was because there was
no literature anywhere in Australia about doing business with indigenous business.
And so the common question that I always got is, well,
how do we implement a program?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
What are the important processes or the important architecture, you know,
things that we need in order for this to be successful.
And so I mean, I'd already been working in this space.
I'd spent some time at Supply Nation before I went
into business.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I worked there in the really early.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Days when Supply Nation was known as AMS, and so
I had all this wealth of knowledge. I'd also looked
into now and I've been overseas to break the United States,
into England to London to look at their models. And
so I just went, you know what, I'm going to
put pen to paper or you know, typing I should say,
and I'm going to I'm going to write the book.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So the book is it's five steps.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's a framework, it's not a one size fits all,
So it has the ability to say these are this
is what we think is the checklist steps. You can
do it in any order, or you can follow the
order as the book goes.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
But it's just it's in a voice that is central
to coming.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
At it from an indigenous business lens. So I want
them to not only go this is what I need
to do, but this is why I need to do it,
because it's going to help. It's an indigenous business voice
that's telling me that this will work. And so I've
really tried to also.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Demystify some of the bias that exists in the marketplace.
Talk to them about what are our business challenges in
it so that they can understand. So yeah, it's been
really really successful. It's in its second edition now, which
is so cool. I facilitated a workshop in Brisbane in
twenty sixteen and I met this lady named Diane and
(36:16):
she was a visual recorder.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
So we were working together on a process facilitation. I
was facilitating, she was visually capturing the notes and we
really connected and she said to me, send me your address,
and so she sent me.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
A book, and it was her book. And her book
was called how to Bake a Book and it was a.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Step guide to writing your own and self publishing your
own book. And I met with her and she's like,
you've got a book in there. And so I met
with her back in twenty seventeen, I think it was,
and we started thinking about the idea and then I
just got so busy I just parked it. And it
(36:58):
wasn't until twenty nineteen. I just had a three month
old baby, and I go, I've got to come back
to business after having three months maternity leave. The Connect
conference that Supply Nation runs is happening in May. I've
got to get this book out.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
And the pressure was on.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So I wrote the book in four months, had it edited,
and had it printed, and launched it at the Connect
twenty nineteen event in May.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
And I only started writing.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
That in January of twenty nineteen with a three month
old baby.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But you know what, it would have just been all
flowing from your cellular level. You would have been able
to just know all of that stuff. But wow, that
is impressive for anyone out there. That is a monumental task.
Well for anyone who is listening and wants to learn
about this process, go and look at I'm going to
put this all in the show notes. But I love
(37:54):
me a practical toolkit book that I can work through steps,
especially things like managing chain and having some templates and
checklists and way to sort of navigate that. So we'll
pop the book in these show notes for anyone who
wants to learn about this, especially those who are working
in governments, are adjacent to governments, and who are providing
grants and money to mob. But on the flip side this,
(38:17):
I wanted to ask you a question because I know
you have a wealth of knowledge, but thinking about black businesses,
what advice would you maybe give somebody who is wanting
to take a step in their business, no matter where
they're at, in terms of elevating their vision and thinking
beyond where they are. I mean, have you got any
sort of practical advice or tips you'd give to business owners,
(38:39):
especially in this current climate right now?
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Look, I love a good model because I like things
that are easy to remember. So I'm going to share
with you three hours. The first one is all about research.
To me, you have to do your homework, so you've
got to understand. So if you're working here and you
want to be there, you've got to think about, well,
what's happening over there, who's there, who are the competitors,
(39:03):
who's buying? Is it the same target audience? What will
it take to scaffold to grow? You know, what am
I going to need from a resources? What's my business
model look like? So you've got to do your background research.
You've also got to run the numbers to see what
is the likelihood of if you're scaffolding and scaling. So
research is the first star, the second one. I believe
(39:25):
in all businesses it's about relationships. Relationships are key people
and organizations they buy relationships. It doesn't matter if it's
the big Woolworths of the world versus the little father
and son or family business down the road. Everything is
about relationships. And so I always think it's who do
(39:46):
you know in particular spaces. If you're wanting to diversify
or do something, you know, have you caught up everybody
you know? Have you had conversations? Do you know anybody
that's tried to do something that you're aiming to do?
Who's in like even talking to who you think might
be potential competitors, who might be potential people that are
going to buy from you, and really just sussing out
(40:08):
and trying to formulate relationships.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
That's one thing.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
As a side thing in relation to what I notice
a lot about indigenous businesses.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
We're so relational. Everything we do is about relationships.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, And I think like that is a superpower that
we often underestimate, is that we have social and community cachet.
You know, what we lack maybe in some fonds, we
bring with having access to these giant networks. So I
love that you've emphasized that. So we've got research relationships.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
And the last one is to respond, and you know
that is to respond appropriately.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
It's to take the risk. It's to do what is
necessary make it happen. It's to get the resources.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It's to just go trust, you go instinct around it.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
And so because quite often we can get to a
point where we might tackle the first to ours and
then we get scared or we're not really ready to
take that leap of faith.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
You know, I was talking to a friend just a
week ago who was.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Saying, oh, you know, but I'm the primary income earner
in my household, and if I you know, take this
leap of faith to go into business. It's going to
put more pressure on my partner, it's going to put
more pressure on my family.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
And I'm like, yeah, but what's the risk?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You know, I can see how what you're doing now
is affecting you.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
What's the risk? Give you go? Like, are you backing yourself?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
And so I think from a response point of view,
it's about actually going. I trust myself, I believe in myself,
I back myself. I'm prepared to take the risk and
yeah it might pay off. Yeah it might not, but
it will get you somewhere further than where you are right.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Now, right And that's the beautiful slash scary thing about
it is just having the courage to take action in
your life just for the sake of blowing your own
mind and be like, far out, I did that thing,
even if it doesn't produce the intended outcome. What you
learn about yourself during those scary af moments where you're
(42:11):
like at that crossroads is really where the magic and
the shit happens, really, doesn't it. And it's also unlearning,
like the conditioning around, like the security that comes with
a nine to five I know, and I see a
lot is that, you know, people might be very happy
to hum along at a nine to five, miserable live
for the weekends just you know, just kind of exist
(42:34):
during the week and because at the end of the
day the security of a paycheck. But if you're not
happy and you're feeling stuck and undervalued and overworked, and
the pros and the content starting your own business is
you do get that flexibility, You do get to choose
a workplace that suits your needs. And I think it's
(42:54):
inherently a good thing to think about. On the other
side of that fear is a payoff might look different.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
That's here there's trade offs and sacrifices with everything, right, Like,
I feel like I've done a lot of the hard
yards to now, you know, in my third year out
on my own, be able to kind of breathe a
little bit more, if that makes sense. That's the trade off,
the sacrifice I made at the early end of working
my guts out to now being able to go and
(43:23):
actually I can create space. And you know, even coming
over here to old ted Or you know, people.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Are like, hey, are you going to run your business?
And I go, what do we doing?
Speaker 3 (43:32):
COVID Yeah, we were online, bro, So it's going to
work out.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And if anyone.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Wants me in Australia, guess what they can pay me
to come home and guess what they already have. You know,
So I came back last week for a day in
and out in one day. That's the reality is I
value myself and I know those that I work with
value me as well. And so if they want the
(43:59):
value of still in the room, they're going to pay
for it.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
They're going to do it.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You are a wealth of knowledge and a beacon of optimism,
and I think it's really nice to have just no
bullshit approach to some of this stuff. And Yeah, I'm
wondering with your podcast Meet the Mob where you talk
to indigenous business owners about you know, what drives them
what they're doing. Is that a place where people can
(44:23):
come and listen to more of these tips and tricks
that you're that you're sharing today, Like, yeah, can you
talk a little bit about the show and what people
can expect in getting more of this and more of you.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Totally totally yeah, you know, Meet the Mob with something
like it's a passion project.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
To start it as a big passion project and it
started off the back.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
I'd been engaged a couple of years ago when there
was a by Black campaign and I'm not an influencer
on social media, but I was engaged to create some
content and I did and I loved it, and I
was like, Hey, this is really cool to be amplifying
in indigenous businesses. And because I'm I've been an avid
(45:07):
shopper and I have like too many clothes of black
businesses right anyway, So I was like, how do I
channel using social media and different types of medium, you know,
to kind of get out there.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
And I actually wanted to start a podcast. And then
at the.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Same time, when I was kind of putting together an idea,
Mandanara Bales launched her Black Magic Woman podcast and I
went ooh, I don't want to compete with sister Girl,
And so I initially started on YouTube because I thought
that would be a really great point of difference.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I actually watch a lot of YouTube.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
I love YouTube because I'm a really visual person, and
so that's where it started. I wanted to elevate and
amplify black business voices. I wanted to showcase success stories
and say, hey, guess what, there is some deadly black
fellows out there and they're running all these types of businesses,
but also for them to share and me to help
(46:03):
elicit some of their stories but also their tips and tricks.
And so then the YouTube channel just came about really
organically in trial and error, and it's grown now into
having that ability to get signed by Black Cast Network
and be reproduced into a podcast series, which I'm just
I was so stoked that that could happen because it's
(46:27):
been a project that i've you know, and you're probably
the same sys our passion projects.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
We self fund these.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
It's our own time and money that we invest in
these things because we care and we want to and
you know.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, so it's just so great to see where it's
going now.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
And I think it comes back to that relationship point
that you said is that we seldom do anything in
isolation as Black Fellows. We're always thinking about, Okay, if
I've got this platform, how can I share it, how
can I elevate it? How do we share more of
these beautiful and stories. And so, yeah, it's lovely to
hear that, Yeah, you're doing it your way, You're doing
(47:06):
your thing. You're sharing these beautiful inspirational stories about black
businesses and just like normalizing these yarns because there are
a lot of people like me and you and who
have kind of been exposed to working in organizations and
then stepping into your own business where that information didn't
even exist, you know, not even a decade ago, where
(47:26):
we could find easy to understand information from other business
owners who are doing doing the damn things. So yeah,
that's that's amazing. I'm going to pop meet the mob
in our show notes and encourage you all to go
over and have a listen, because, as you can tell,
you could sit and listen to you all day.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
My sis.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
You're a wealth of knowledge, and thank you so much
for being here and yeah sharing your your wisdom and
the labor and love that you provide for communities.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So thank you, oh thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
It's so good to see you and I art way
to we get together face to face.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I don't know when that's gonna happen, but baby seen.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah, next time you're in Num Num or Melbourne and
you're here for.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Work, hit us sister up will totally.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Thank you so much for listening you mob. If you're
vibing this season of yarning up, then Please head over
to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts from
to show us a love rate and review. Alternatively, get
in contact and give us some feedback by visiting www.
(48:37):
Dot Caroline Coow dot com dot au
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