September 25, 2022 • 60 mins
In this week’s episode, Caroline is joined by Larisha Jerome, proud Jarowair, Wakka Wakka & Wulli Wulli woman, who grew up on Darug Country in Western Sydney. Larisha has an extensive background in banking, women’s health, government, and community services. She leads the Foundation’s Women’s Financial Wellness work addressing the economic injustice First Nations people face and empowering women to achieve full financial wellness and independence.
In this incredibly knowledgeable and insightful yarn, the two start by reflecting on their similar upbringings, watching their mums forced to live paycheck to paycheck and, like most mob, struggling with the barriers and hindrance experienced after years of financial trauma forced onto our community. Larisha was determined to break this cycle within her family, with hard work and discipline, she entered the housing market at the age of 21, buying her first home.
Today, Larisha empowers our community to change their mindset around money through the power of stories and help break the patterns that are evident within our community, to help us take back financial control.
Her belief is knowledge is power and that being rich is just a mindset and that First Nations women are capable and deserving of prosperous lives. Larisha uses the podcasting space to host her podcast, Rich Blak Women, which she describes as a “modern-day type of yarning circle” to further educate the community and inspire listeners to push the idea of “self-care” to include healthy financial behaviours, starting with talking openly about money, asking questions and learning how to say no. Larisha brings her insight of these topics today and offers amazing tips to allow abundance and prosperity in your financial life with the ability to use her technique of affirm, release and allow.
To keep up to date with Larisha, be sure to follow her on Instagram here.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and don’t forget to follow the show!
Follow Caroline on Instagram @blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here!
We would like to acknowledge Aboriginal people as Australia’s First Peoples’ who have never ceded their sovereignty. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where the podcast was taped. We pay our deepest respects to Traditional Owners across Australia and Elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast was brought to you by On Track Studio.
For advertising opportunities please email hello@ontrackstudio.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Welcome to Yarning Up, a podcast that showcases stories of
First Nations excellence to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
(00:24):
Proud Barbara woman and founder of Black Wattle Coaching and Consulting,
Caroline col This podcast was taped on the sacred, stolen,
and unseeded Aboriginal lands of the Runjuri people of the
Coolin Nation. I pay my deepest respects to them, my elders,
(00:48):
your elders, and all owners of country, of this beautiful
place that we call home. Yama, Yama, beautiful people.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome back to Yarning Up.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I am clearly so excited that you are once again
joining us for the show. I've woken up with an
abundance of energy, and if I'm being really honest, I
suspect it's because I spent all of yesterday on the couch,
eating chips and gravy food for the soul, watching ridiculous
(01:25):
TV on the couch and I've just woken up today
with an extra pep in my step, So all in
the name of healing. Highly recommend if you're having a
moment to take a moment. No, In all honesty, though
I permitted myself of a day of nothing yesterday, no meetings,
no calls, no social media.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It was the most productive thing that I could have done.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Because I, like many of the listeners and.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
The people who I work with, the people.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
In my community, have had such a differ be called
twelve months. Someone said to me the other day, it's
like when we were in COVID time, we were kind
of just like sleeping, and now we're just we're woken
up and we're startled and we're just running. And I
just thought that that was just such a great way
to think about where we're all at right now. And
(02:19):
I guess the duplicitedness of life. For myself personally, it
has been some of the most incredibly amazing times, euphoric,
achieving milestones, ticking off bucket list items like ted talks,
and you know, just things that I have never thought
(02:39):
would be available to me in my life has become
available through work and preparation and tenacity. But then equally so,
these beautiful times have been shadowed or bookended by a
deep sadness of loss. As you all know, parents and
(03:02):
community members and elders and uncles and aunties and just
this feeling of eternal grief right now. And so what
I'm saying is, if you need that day, do you
need to shut down and just be with yourself today
or you've been thinking about it, this is the reminder,
(03:22):
This is the PSA to do it, which is a
lovely segue into today's guest, the ever inspiring Lursia Jerome.
She's a proud jerry Ware Whackawaka and Wally Wally woman.
And today we spoke about self care and boundaries, but
(03:45):
we spoke about it in the context of money and finances,
which you know, this notion of economic prosperity and choice
and just two ideals and co steps that were certainly
not available to sister and I growing up. So it
was just a really kind of full circle moment to
(04:08):
be talking about these ideas. But we explored indigenous perspectives
of money, identity, business, community, and honestly, so so much
more about what makes a rich Black mindset. And I
(04:28):
personally took so much away from this conversation, as I
hope you do too.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Well.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I am so excited about my next guest sister girl,
Larisa Derome, who I've been following for quite some time
and really admiring the work that you're doing my sister
around financial self care, which I can't wait to kind
of delve into. But before we get into it, I
just want to say, ye, yeah, thank you so much
(05:01):
for joining me today. I'm so excited to connect with you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me today'sys.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
There's no denying there's been like a huge heaviness in
the world that we live in, and things have been
filled of light and darkness and joy and sadness, and
so yeah, I guess I get really really excited about
these conversations.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
These are the things that really fill me up.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And I'm so grateful that you're here and to connect
with you and especially just being another fellow sis who's
kicking goals. So so excited to learn more about you today.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
But as we do on this.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Show, before we hear about the amazing work that you're
doing around financial literacy financial self care, which is just
so important for our mob, so so important, I'd love
to just hear, yeah, a bit more about you personally, sister,
Like where did you grow up? Can you tell me
more about your mob, your fan Emily, your story.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah absolutely, well, yeah, as you mentioned, my name is
Larisia Jerome and I'm a proud Jena Wocka Woka and
Willie Willy woman, you know, with those strong ties to
Bonia Mountains in southern Queensland. I grew up on a
dairy country in western Sydney and Penrith and out in
Mount Jeort area. And you know, in this role that
(06:22):
I have now, I currently lead the Indigenous Women's Financial
Wellness Initiative here at First Nations Foundation. And you know,
for me personally, financial literacy, financial wellness was not existent
throughout my family. I grew up in a single mother household.
You know, my earliest childhood memories we lived in a
women's refuge and then you know, moving on to housing
(06:45):
commission and that continuous cycle of just living paycheck to paycheck.
And I just knew that, you know, growing up, I
was going to be that one to really break that
generational curse within my family. And you know, going from
living in a residential home when I was I think
I was seventeen and eighteen, and then I moved out
to my first apartment and then ended up eventually buying
(07:08):
my first home at the page of twenty one. And
so just working in these roles that I have had
the privilege to work in, it's really just allowed me
to you know, use my lived experiences and also build
my own financial capability to be able to share with others.
And I've had the privilege to do so within this role.
For sure.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Wow, you're a sister of my own heart, because yeah,
very just want to honor that story firstly, because it
blows my mind how much evolution has occurred within just
a generation. It really does. And yeah, my story quite similar.
I'm one of six, grew up with five kids in
the home. Mum was mostly a single mum. We lived
(07:52):
in Commission housing, paycheck to paycheck, not even our paycheck
to paycheck, other people in the streets paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
We would know who's.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Got money one week and who would be able to
cook up a feed, and we'd run it down to
Arnie Donners for a feed. And you know, we'd have
times where there was nothing in our house and we'd
go up the street and we know that someone would
be able to support us. But yeah, the idea of
like accruing any sense of wealth or having any of
(08:24):
those choices that were not available to us. So yeah,
I see that, and I would just want to recognize
that story of yours and yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So much to unpack, Yeah for sure. Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
You know, I'd love to just sort of open up
a little bit if I could, which is I understand
that you have a background in banking and you've worked
at the Commonwealth Bank, Indigenous Business Australia and also Women's
Legal Service Queensland. But I'd love to unpack a little
(08:58):
bit more about what you currently do at the Foundation
and this idea of the work that you're doing in
financial literacy for our community.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Can you help us understand that?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, of course. Well, just to you know, the first
yn is always about just a few statistics from research
that we did back in twenty nineteen here at the Foundation.
One in ten mob are financially secure, but nearly half
are classified as experiencing severe and high levels of financial stress.
So just to you know, that statistic in itself is alarming,
(09:33):
especially given the impacts of COVID nineteen natural disasters. Not
even unpacking you know, the other inequities that we face
as Indigenous people within this country. We are now in
that generation of people who are breaking those intergenerational patterns
of generations of systemic oppression. And you know, we often
talk about our intergenerational trauma, but what about our intergenerational
(09:58):
strengths as well. So within this program to support our women,
we've really created those trauma informed practices to achieve you know,
that overall economic empowerment. And you know a couple of
other things that came from that report that we did,
Through those studies that we did, you know, more than
fifty percent of Indigenous people recognized that the barriers to
(10:20):
accessing financial products and services were one they didn't know
enough about financial products and services too. They had money
shame and we're too proud to access these services. And
luckily with this one, this can be fixed, and which
is exactly why First Nations Foundation exists to really you know, educate,
(10:40):
empower and provide that financial literacy education to fill that gap,
to create you know, the ultimate financial prosperity and achieving
that intergenerational wealth. And you know that doesn't even cover
you know, the other economic disadvantages that we face as well,
which includes unemployment, financial problems, poverty, and that economic exclusion
(11:04):
so within the work that we do. We're a non
for profit organization and we have our My Money Dream program,
which is an online financial literacy training program which has
really been created by mob and for mobs. So it
helps us you know, really unpacked and learn the skills
to you know, create that financial security and prosperity. So
(11:27):
we really focus on you know, cultural the economy, determining
your own money dream, what good money habits are, and
creating a money plan and budget. So yeah, I've been really,
really really lucky and honored to be able to lead
the women's program for the last two years. We have
a private Facebook group with the Network of First Nations Women.
(11:48):
I write monthly online webinars, a money masterclass, and of
course I do some face to face training within communities
and really providing those self care sessions. We've got our
Tomorrow Money Women's website, which is an online resource education
hub for all things relating money matters, you know, career
and business, financial hardship, financial abuse, prevention, tax super literally
(12:13):
everything is in that one spot. So I'm just really
grateful that, you know, from the variety of different roles
that I've had, you know, working with CBA, working at
IBA within the Business Solutions team and housing solutions in
financial hardship and debt collection, and then most recently from
this job working at Women's Legal Service in the financial
(12:35):
abuse Prevention unit. So I can just bring all of
that information, all of those resources into the one program
and just making it really accessible and culturally relevant and
culturally safe for our women across the country. Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It's like the culmination of all of those things that
you've done with you like packaging up and giving it
back to mob in a way, which is which is
beautiful to see, but it sounds so comprehensive, you know,
talking about educating, yarning up budgets aspirations.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
You know, even just I see this a lot in the.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Coaching world as well, particularly the non Aboriginal coaching world,
which is really hyper individualized, like you know, and some
of it is not as culturally sensitive or is it
sort of even rooted in a feminist theory. It's very
like you know, this American dream and Australian dream, and
they do a lot of work around our beliefs around money.
(13:38):
You know, if you if you come from you know, poverty,
or you come from living near the poverty line. You know,
we do carry this notion as you've just described, that
shame and this inability to know what to do with money,
and this sense of not feeling worthy of acquiring money
(13:58):
or wealth. You know, I was speaking to a cousin
once and he was working in a high paying job.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I won't say what the job is, but high paying job, and.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You know, he was like, I didn't even know what
to do once I had all of this money, so
I would just drink it up and eat it and
bind it but fancy clothes because he thought that everything
he had just had to be disposed of, you know,
really quickly, and so there was no longevity in anything
that he did. So just having these really honest conversations
about it and our beliefs around money, especially if the
(14:27):
mob is so important, So that's awesome. I do just
want to touch on what you said about the notion
of I guess the other the more systemic issues around money,
which we know the cost of living right now is exorbitant.
You know, at the moment, people are struggling with the
data to day necessities, you know, fruit and veggies and
(14:47):
medications and fuel and all of those things. And we
do know that there are the social determinants of health
and poverty and how that can impact our mob, And
so I think it's it's so important that we often
I guess, straddle the two which, like you say, celebrate
the strengths of our mob in breaking these intergenerational curses,
(15:09):
if you will, but also acknowledge there is a long
way to go for us to all have access to
you know, wealth and choice and that kind of notion
of prosperity. Are you seeing changes? I mean, you're in
it every day. Are you seeing through the work that
you're doing, communities really take more ownership of their spending habits?
(15:32):
And are you seeing a change in how we as
people sort of think about money and equity and choice.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I guess yeah, well absolutely I have, And especially within
the Indigenous Women's Financial Wellness Program, you know, we focus
on financial wellness as your overall holistic financial health. You know,
whether that be mentally you want to achieve that financial wellness,
you want the mindset that euro abundant, that you're capable
(16:00):
and educated to achieve that financial wellness. You know, spiritually
you want that financial contentment. You want to be at ease,
comfortable and not worrying about, you know, the money shame,
or that sick feeling in your stomach, whether or not
your bills are going to be paid, or if your
family is okay, and then physically, you know, we all
want financial freedom, to be able to provide, to share
(16:22):
and have enough to support ourselves and of course our communities.
So I think even just opening up this space for
people to talk about it, to acknowledge it as well,
and just opening up the conversation because you know, even
now with you know, my girls, I'll have like a
little accountability check in and being like, oh, what are
(16:44):
your goals? What are you doing to reach those goals?
And you know, what are your self limiting beliefs around that?
And I feel like now we're in such a different
time where, you know, our ancestors have really paved the
way for us to have all of these opportunity unities,
and it's all about you know, it's it's hard enough
as it is to acknowledge what your financial position is
(17:06):
in the first instance, and I understand that, and we
all should understand that, but we also need to remember that,
you know, we have survived every single day that we
didn't think that we would so it's about how you
take accountability, what you're putting in place to actually take
control of your future. And you know, within those modules
(17:27):
that we do within our training, the first one is
all about you know, the Western economic system where it
considers it good to accumulate wealth beyond what's necessary. You know,
that acquisition of land and natural resources that really became
the basis of wealth building here in Australia. And you know,
the Western concept of land ownership has become a strong
(17:49):
cultural value, which you know is the Australian dream. And
you know, understanding for our mob, we perceive in value
money way differently. You know, there is more of a
folk on the collective as a family and as a community.
And you know Europeans have a history of expansion and
lend acquisition. You know, the British Empire wanted to expand,
(18:12):
just changing things all over the world. But First Nations people,
you know, we lived off the land. We preserve the
land and we have no desire to really you know,
grow out tribal footprint and you know, we just want
to live off the land. We also have the generational
impacts of stolen wages that have stopped us from being
(18:33):
in control of our own money, living on rations and
basic cards. But now you know, we've got so much
opportunity and so many things that I think a lot
of people are finding more. You know, we've got financial
capability workers and financial counselors, and we've actually got an
aboriginal network of people that work on the ground, that
(18:55):
are working with grassroots communities and really you know, being
the champions within their communities to making sure that all
of this is accessible. And you know, all of our
mob have that, you know, that sense of safety and
security I guess in just having access to financial literacy
education is just so powerful women having that empowerment too,
(19:18):
because you know, outside of work as well, I'm also
in the life coaching space. You know, I really focus
on self concept and that self directed healing because my
biggest belief is that healing ourselves is generational wealth, not
just in a money sense, but you know, from health
is wealth, and that generational wealth increases when generational curses
(19:41):
are broken. And you know, passing that healing, having the
conversations is how we inspire others. And you know, healing,
of course is linear. We will always be healing, but
when we heal ourselves, we heal others. We heal our
mothers and our grandmothers. So I think, just to answer
your question, yeah, it's just a complete different world right now,
(20:04):
and I think it's just amazing to see and it's
just inspiring because you know, I was doing some training
a couple of months ago with girls that were in
high school and they were asking me questions about tax
super building businesses and all of these things, and I'm like,
I was not thinking about, you know, building a business
when I was that age. So it's just like, how
(20:26):
amazing is it that, you know, our future leaders are
now coming up, They're coming in their power. You know,
they're educated, they're abundant, they're feeling the vibes, they've got
that energy. And yeah, it's just so amazing to see
the difference that the impact on you know, women just
(20:46):
standing in their power has been, especially within this financial space.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Wow, I love this.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I'm so here for this conversation. I think, oh, there's
so much to unpack there. But I think the main
thing I would take away that yes, we have had
a complicated relationship with money in this country and labor
in this country, but it doesn't have to be that way,
and we are seeing people really yeah, as you say,
(21:13):
standing in their power and not allowing those kind of
old intergenerational sort of wounds really carry forward and really
grabbing all of this this knowledge. I think it's really
great to hear that not only is the work that
you're doing about helping mob be informed and empowered and
accountable to this and learn, but also reframing what is
(21:37):
wealth for our community? You know. I think that is
something that is so important when we think about what
exists and where we're headed. We're at this point in
our lives after we've just come out of COVID, I
believe anyway, where we are really as modern societies re
establishing our values and this kind of capitalist economy where
(21:59):
you just a crew and a crew and a crew
and you have these pockets and vacuums of power. I
don't think that that's going to be where we all
want to sit. I think we're looking more at this
notion of a regenerative economy where we have what we need,
we have time in our lives for families and communities,
(22:20):
and we give back what we need to build the
solid foundations of communities. I mean, maybe that's utopia and
I'm describing, but I do feel that I do think
that people are really rethinking their relationship with work and
then their relationship with their wage. And you know, even
(22:41):
for instance, within Blackwater, we've just brought in some stuff
and I remember when I put out the ad, I thought, well,
who's going to want to work, you know, twenty hours
a week. And when we put out the advert, I
put in there that look, we've got twenty hours of
work a week. It's not a full time wage. But
we've also got to be putting in a lot of
emphasis on wellness. So we do wellness sessions. I pay
(23:03):
for wellness coaching and other things outside of work, and
we do a really big lot of work around professional
development because I really want to work myself out of
this job, you know, eventually. And I was so surprised
I had so many people put in for the job
because people want flexibility. People want to do things that
(23:24):
give them meaning, but don't keep them tied to a desk,
to a man, to a system, all that jazz.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So I think our.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Relationship with work is changing, and so too will our
habits with money and power.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Eventually, I'm going to take some time going to take
some time.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
But I love that you guys are already talking about
reframing around the indigenous black fellow economy, looking at it
being more circular instead of you know, power vacuums, like.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Oh okay, I'm already so GTA she's ready ready for this?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Well.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I mean, it's just such an interesting place that you know,
you and I two sister girls talking about money and finances,
and it just it really does just hit me thinking
about you know, so many of our old ones have
you know, lived and died with nothing to their names
and being a part of this sort of new wave
(24:21):
of people who have access to things, and it's like, okay,
now what do we do with this? Like what do
we do with this little bit of extra that we've got?
How do we consciously move through this world with intention
and purpose for all but still you know, get yours
of course, But how do we do that? And it's
something that I really oscillate and have like internal dialogue
(24:43):
with all the time because it's my money story. My
money is shame, you know, thinking I've got to give
everything I've got off my back to everyone and all
of that. So it's something I'm really grappling with as
a business owner and trying to give what I can
back but also sustain the business. So I'd love to
(25:03):
actually unpack this notion. You wrote a beautiful opinion piece
in R two nine Refinery two nine. A big shout
out to them. I love those mobs you spoke about
in the article, this notion of financial self care. Can
you break it down for all the brothers and sisters
at home? What is financial self care?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Well? In short, well, you know, financial self care is
just so important because it's all about you know, what
you do as an individual. Now, if you're embodying this capable, abundant,
high vibrational energy, you know, and that self respect that
you have for yourself, you know that really everyone will
(25:49):
pick up on your energy straight up. You know they
will eventually really mirror the attitude that you have towards
money through self development and self help. Education. Education is
the number one thing. Of course, Knowledge is power, and
it's just so important that you know, we've got all
of these resources and tools that are available now, So
it's just about you know, you taking that first step,
(26:11):
taking that accountability for yourself and you know, just gaining
all of that information so you can you know, look online,
do the training like the My Money Dream training that
I've mentioned, you know, research on our Tomorrow Money women's website,
we've also got just the normal Tomorrow Money as well,
so that's accessible to men, women, everybody of course. And
(26:33):
then in the women's website we really focus on you know,
career and business and that financial abuse prevention stuff and
healthy relationships and money as well. You know, read books
like The Barefoot Investor Rich Dad, Poor Dad was one
of my favorite books. And also journaling. I think that
is one of the biggest things that has helped me
(26:54):
a lot on my healing journey. You know, even outside
of that financial self care apart, I think just overall
self care because I'm not very good with, you know,
explaining my emotions or anything. And then just years and
years of therapy, it's just like, you know, if you're journaling,
you're really uplifting yourself and then just you know, taking
(27:16):
away all of that baggage as well, so you know,
find out and do the inner self reflection, you know,
write down what has impacted your money believes as a person,
and then also what are you doing to change this pattern?
For yourself and for your family. You can listen to podcasts.
There's so many amazing women out there, men out there
(27:37):
that have these really amazing podcasts, especially yours, How Rich
Black Women One. You know, meditation is so important as well.
I feel for myself, it's just around that grounding aspect
and it's about leading that intentional, conscious living, being grateful
for everything that you have and for everything that will
(28:00):
come to you. Another important thing, you know, that community empowerment.
Join networks where you're connecting with women that you want
to achieve your goals, you know, who believe in you
and you want to keep accountable, and also just celebrating
those small wins. I think that we just need to
(28:20):
really realize that, you know, we are so deserving of
a beautiful, abundant, fruitful life. And the more people that
you have surrounded around you that believe the same thing,
it's just going to be amazing. Like, honestly, I feel
like the networks that we have, and especially as Black women,
(28:40):
it's all love, it's all you know, we all want
to achieve, you know, financial prosperity. We all want our
sister girls to be the best versions of themselves. So
just yeah, financial self care is all of those things,
and it's also about honoring your boundaries as well.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, I love this. I mean, if I could
try my best to summarize all the beautiful things that
you have outlined and some of the practices that I
also adopt. Is this notion that self care, if we
are living in a conscious, intentional state in our lives,
(29:21):
that is going to transcend in how we show up
with our money.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You know, like how we I say this a lot
to my clients as well.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You know, how we show up in our relationships is
how we show up in our business. How we show
up in our business is how we show up with
our money. If we are avoiding our emotions impulsive, living
in reactionary mode, then of course that's going to transcend
in maybe going out and spending all your money on
booze or spending all your money on that overpriced dressed
(29:52):
to fill that void of how you're feeling. So there's
a relationship between our emotions, our intentions, and our FI answers, right.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, exactly, It's all intertwined. And I feel like, you know,
humbugging is huge within our communities. You know, we've always
got that sense of that cultural obligation to take care
of everybody around us, and as women, as the matriarchs
within our families, we always feel like we need to
(30:21):
save everyone, but then we're abandoning our own self care.
You know, to honor your boundaries, it's okay to say no, yeah,
you know, you have to create a realistic budget that
works for you. First. If you have enough in your
budget and for others, you know, then that's okay to
lend money out, but you also need to make sure
that you know it's that reciprocated energy as well. You know,
(30:44):
one week you may cook some food for you know,
your Annie and your cousins one week, and then the
next they'll come and mow your lawns or something. So
it's not like you're just constantly giving out and getting
nothing in return. It's about having those strong boundaries and
actually honoring them. You know, you've got to be honest,
and you've got to have goals as well. You must
(31:05):
set those goals. So having financial goals also allows you
to see the bigger picture and save towards something that
will benefit you in the long run. You have to
have discipline, hould yourself accountable, along with others as well.
Sometimes we may even be the ones who humbug. I
know when I was younger, I used to humbug a month,
hours a hard time, and now it's the complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
True.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
God, Yeah, it's just like it's crazy. And then you know,
of course you have to be patient. You know, you're
not going to completely change your life overnight. It's just
about you know, giving yourself that grace and just that
level of understanding that it's okay. You know, you just
need to be patient. You've got to incorporate the self care.
You know, you work hard, so you deserve to reap
(31:52):
the rewards as well, you know, and you've got to
be consistent.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I feel like that following through when you're saying that
you're going to do something is a very big struggle
for a lot of people. And then of course you
know that flexibility you must adjust when necessary. You know,
of course there's things like unfortunately sorry, business that comes up,
and then you've got to you know, help family, you've
got to cook for everyone and all of those things
(32:17):
as well. But yeah, I think just honoring your boundaries.
As I mentioned before, you know, when you're embodying that
abundant version of yourself. And when you're respecting yourself, you
have that energy that radiates in so many ways and
without you even knowing, people pick up on that. People
will eventually, you know, pick up those behaviors as well,
(32:39):
and it really motivates them to get their shit together
as well. And you know, it's it's going to be
hard saying no the first time. Of course, you know,
someone will be pissed off that you're not giving them
alone when they know that you're cashed up or you
just got paid. But it's all about just you know,
changing the mindset and just keeping people accountable and yourself
accountable as well.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Hundred Oh my goodness, I feel you on that and
the research we know so anie knowledge And in turn
I did some work around Aboriginal women and how many
or Aboriginal people rather predominantly women, who we have in
our lives and on average we have up to one
hundred people who we are emotionally and financially responsible for.
(33:24):
That's a bit of gunnah, yeah, right, And then I
had a look and you know, like I'm one of
six mums, one of eleven. You know, it doesn't take
long before you look at your cousins and this and
that niece's nephews.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Even the ones you haven't met yet.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Oh, true, God, True God.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
And so you know, there are so many people in
our lives who we feel a strong sense to say
yes too. It isn't easy saying no and expressing your capacity,
but I can assure you once you start to do
it, it does feel easier, and you do, you do get
better at it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And I think, like you've said, see what is important.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I run, you know, burnout work with women and we
do a whole module on how to say no when
we do role plays and scenarios and we yann about it.
And you know, it's one of those things that I
think acknowledging that it's difficult, but acknowledging as you've said,
that there's context. That it's not like an electric fence
like this is yes and no. It's within the context
(34:24):
of each situation, which requires you to have the space
mentally to be able to kind of sit with each request,
if that makes sense. And know that sometimes things might
pop up like sorry business or you know, things that
are added control court. You know, you might need to
get your family to court, you might need to do this,
you might need to do that, but you know, recognizing
(34:46):
what requests you will take on and sitting with those
and just knowing that it does get easier and you
are allowed to say no. It doesn't make you a
bad person a bad family member. It means that you,
I guess, flexing your capacity as an individual as well.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And you know.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
People do treat you how you allow them to be treated.
And if you're just constantly saying yes and dishing out everything,
you're only creating this inner angst within yourself and then
that has ripple effects as well. So yeah, it's learning
how we can say yes and how we can say
no and what emotion that brings up. The other thing
(35:27):
which you touch on which I just want to reinforce
is and again this kind of idea of it not
being a monetary benefit but a emotional benefit, and you
know how you can be really clear, Yeah, this notion
of it doesn't have to always be money. It could
be a time, it could be dropping off a meal
and kind of yes, saving up front what you want
(35:49):
to get out of the interaction. That's a really interesting proposition.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, exactly. And it's like I remember one of my
oh so when We went to sit On Land a
couple of months back. We did some training with all
of the youth workers out there and from all the
different homelands, so they came in, we did some of
my money dream training with them, and some of them
were saying, you know, everyone's money goals are completely different,
and for one of them, they were saying that when
(36:18):
you get paid so that everyone knows you payday, people
will literally wait outside of all works waiting for you,
humbugging you for your money straight away before you've even
done your own thing with it. And then the emotional
ties to that, making you feel bad if you don't
get give them alone or anything like that they were
(36:39):
talking about sometimes it's really really intense where they're you know,
threatening you know, self harm or you know, all of
those sorts of things because you're not giving them money.
Like that's how intense it can be within some communities.
And I think that, you know, Nonindigenous people will never
understand the cultureation that we have to our mob. And
(37:03):
it's like, you know, a couple of weeks ago, I
got asks for a loan and for food or something,
and I just knew that it wasn't going to be
for food. But I was just like, you know what, CEUs,
I will, you know, tell me what groceries you want.
I will order it and I'll come drop it off,
or I'll cook something up. It's about those sorts of
things as well. And it's not like getting away from
(37:25):
the conversation. It's about you know, having yourself in control.
If the energy isn't reciprocated, if you know that you're
not going to get your money back. I feel like
instead of just you know, being out of money all
the time and just constantly giving, giving and giving and
not getting anything back, it's about you know, standing in
your power as well, and also you know, offering alternatives.
(37:48):
You know, oh yeah you want to loan my brother,
If he asks for a loan, I'll be like, yeah,
come mow the lawns and then you can. You know.
It's just about that reciprocated energy. And I think it's
just so important that we're constantly talking about this because
we can't save everyone unless we save ourselves first.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yeah, been there, done that in my twenties, and I
can tell you right now you ain't save it no one.
You're running yourself into the ground and you end up
really and your relationships ultimately suffer from that. You know,
there's a resentment, you know, next time everyone's around, everyone's
on a charge, everyone's having a bus start, there's Yeah,
it's not a sustainable way. So putting your needs up front,
(38:29):
and it doesn't have to be confrontational, like yeah, cool,
no worries, I'll help.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
You if you're able to do this or this.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
This is what maybe paying me back might look like
for me, you know, just having a really open, honest conversation.
It feels a bit uncomfortable at first, but it really
does help in the long run. Yeah, definitely, I'm curious
to understand, Sis, what's maybe one thing that people who
are listening can do to become more consciously aware of
(38:58):
their spending habit?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I guess, and I think habits is the keyword.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You know. Is there any advice you would give or
one key piece of advice to somebody who's listening about, Yeah,
how they can become more aware of where their money,
which is energy as well, is going. You know.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, I love how you just said that, because that's
exactly what it is. So if you don't like the
energy of the word money, then think of it as
sacred wealth or sovereign prosperity or whatever makes you admit
that you want to build and cultivate that generational wealth.
That is what I always say and what I lead
(39:36):
back into. So, as you mentioned, you know, money is
energy and money is a resource, and you know that
energy is the ability to do work. And I always
say this. Everyone always asks why did you call it
rich black women? You know, being rich is just a
mindset or a state of mind. This energy, like anything else,
(39:57):
is impacted by the thoughts, words, and that we fuel
it with. So it's just so important that you know,
we understand you know, the saying energy flows where attention goes.
So a lot of our mob we have those subconscious
money blocks and negative money beliefs, which is you know,
it's completely understandable, you know when we think about the
(40:19):
stolen wages and not being in full control of our
own money. But you know, money is the same energy
of trust. Hence the term trust fund and the saying
in God we trust. This all has to do with money.
So I think once we understand that and we understand
around the psychology of money, all of these things, it's about,
(40:41):
as I mentioned, being accountable. You know, actually taking that
first step into where are you at as a person
within your money journey? You know, are you in debt,
are you doing anything to improve that? Or are you
just essentially, you know, sitting in that mindset of that
victim mentality and you're just like getting getting by, but
(41:01):
you're you know, you want to cultivate that, you know,
that rich mindset those things as well. So it's about
doing that, and it's also about you know, making sure
that you have that financial literacy education because a lot
of our mob, unfortunately, are really the first ones that
you know, those pay loans which are very very dangerous,
(41:25):
and a lot of our yeah like after pay, yeah,
after pay, cash converters, all of those different things. It's
like those quick money things for our mob to get
involved with, which in the long run, because a lot
of people aren't educated in their own you know, rights
and responsibilities, and because they also take advantage of a
(41:49):
lot of our mob. So it's just about you know,
being empowered, being educated. Knowing what your responsibilities and your
rights are as a consumer is so important. And I
also think you know, just as much as you're educated,
there are so many ways to get out of debt.
There are so many people to help you. There is
(42:09):
no shame in getting help whatsoever. That's one of the
biggest things that you know, people will come to a
webinar and you know, it's really heavy the first couple
of modules because we're talking about, you know, how to
obtain your credit file report and especially working in the
Financial Abuse Prevention Unit. So when somebody would come to
me from you know, a relationship breakdown or things like that,
(42:33):
we would then obtain a credit file report. Now, if
you have not kept up to date with your credit
file report, Unfortunately, in a lot of cases for our
First Nations women, there have been multiple you know, debts
that were taken out in somebody's name that they were
unaware of. So when they would come to the Financial
(42:54):
Abuse Prevention Unit, we would find that out. Then in
there and firstly you go through the trauma of you know,
domestic and family violence and then now you've got this
other thing where you're completely unaware of it. So it's
about keeping up to date, making sure your financial administration
is under control. And it's so important for us as
(43:18):
women to be independent, be financially independent. Do not rely
on somebody else to come save you. Do not rely
on anybody else to be in control of your money.
It's so important that we really cultivate those healthy relationships
around money as well.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Gosh, I love this.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I just admire the fact that the work is really
delving into this kind of the belief, the shame, but
then also the practicalities of this. And you're right, like
you know, once a family breaks down or there's deep
domestic violence, they're not usually the things that are at
the forefront of your mind around clearing your debts and
(43:59):
having both companies and debt companies chasing after you and
going on payment plans and doing all of those things,
because you were just in survival mode, right, and so
these things become afterthoughts, but they can become real barriers
for people later. And so I just think it's so
great that you provide that sort of holistic level of support.
And I think what's really interesting about some of these beliefs,
(44:22):
especially with money, is if you ask people about we
do this at Blackwater with some of the businesses around.
You've got money as a currency and energy source. You know,
it comes in, it goes just you know, just like
most things, but underneath, money is a whole constellation of
(44:43):
feelings and emotions and ideas and socialization around security and
agency and choice and how you're perceived in society. So
money represents all these like really complicated, interrelated sort of
underlying feelings and emotions, and they it's like, how do
(45:05):
we just yeah, get better at sitting with what does
that mean? I just want to share a quick yarn
before I hear about your podcast, which I'm very excited to.
I'll be honest, I definitely in my twenties carried forward
the lessons I had learned, which you know, coming from
single mom, we definitely didn't go without. We had a
(45:25):
lot of love and abundance, but it was never in
the financial sense. You know, we weren't all dressed up
in all the brands and all of that stuff, but
we all looked after each other. But there was no
sense of longevity, savings, even having enough money to go
on a holiday. You know, it was just so out
of the question. And so I definitely kind of carry
(45:45):
that into my twenties a lot and just live paycheck
to paycheck, charge to charge, worked hard, played hard, you know,
just went through that cycle. And I met my partner Michael.
We've been together for eleven years. His Greek heritage, and
his family grew up with nothing, but they worked their
holes off and they put all of their money into
(46:07):
property and they were able to use property as a
way to get ahead in life. Really, and I remember
his seven years six years older than me. We bought
a house and the process of buying this house, which
I'm so grateful for, but the emotional trauma that it
(46:28):
put me through. I had this huge existential crisis one
because I'd never even been anchored somewhere long enough in
my life to be settled.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
We moved around, Mum was.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Married three times, of all three times in a big black,
blended family comings and goings and things. So to have
something so rooted in life and then just this emotional
turmol that I went through, I was so resistant and
I was like, oh my god, I have this deep
seated belief about money and having a house, and you know,
(47:01):
even kind of shaming myself because I was the lucky
one in my family to have this thing that's come
my way. And oh, it was probably a few months
of just this turmoil and.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Should I should fail you, I feel you so much
on this and it's just, you know, it brings you
back to you know, for our mob before invasion, there
was no need for money Onceoever, you know, trading and
bartering occurred within our communities. You know, everyone has their
own roles and responsibilities, you know, from caring for children,
(47:34):
hunting and preparing food, and you know those resources are
shared with family and kin and the wider community. A
Western capitalist economy is different. You know, you work, you
get paid, you own your own money and assets. People
sell and you buy, and it's really you know that
individual you own your own land and those material possessions,
(47:56):
and there is less obligation to share that individually cumulating
wealth with the collective. So I think you know, over time,
this economic mindset, that's what's really built that intergenerational wealth
for White Australians. And you know, for a lot of
First Nations people, we have trust issues, especially in systems
(48:17):
that weren't built to support our people. You know, trusting
in ourselves and our abilities is allowing ourselves to really
step into our power. You know, White Australians, you know,
they have a better ability of faking and masking their
trust issues. And you know that could be a controversial topic,
but you know through their own histories. They understand, you know,
(48:39):
the power of connections and accumulating wealth and you know,
and white Australians generally feel that more security, that more safety,
you know, the feeling of being safe and understanding the
idea of manifestation and embodying that has really built in
over generations. And you know, whether you're religious or not,
(49:00):
the saying trust in God or your ancestors, the divine.
You know, as I mentioned before, money is the same
energy of trust. Hence the saying in God we trust
and you know, we really focus on, you know, with money,
the root chakra that's feeling safe and secure to be
able to receive that money and live that luxurious lifestyle.
(49:23):
And that's really the practice of you know, embodying that
safety and security. Many of us grew up in the
environment where there was a lack of trust. Many of
us didn't feel protected, and you know, you must feel
safe and have a strong knowing that you're protected. And
I think us as aboritional women are always protected by
our ancestors and we need to remember this all the time.
(49:46):
And of course, you know, the heart chakra, it's green,
the color of money, so it's meant to be shared,
to reduce, to grow, and to build. You know, giving
and receiving is one of our cultural strengths. You know,
we give and we share with that communit it is.
And you know, by increasing how money energy and aligning
it and aligning ourselves with this energy, you know, we
(50:07):
could attract all the abundance that we want. And that's
not only just you know, attracting that for ourselves, but
that's you know, as you mentioned earlier, we've got a
network of already one hundred women we're also cultivated around
as well.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, wow, there is so much to unpack with you.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
I don't know what your what your what your client
schedule looks like, but I feel like I feel personally
really drawn to this work and I would I'm.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Like, have you got any time to take any more clients?
Because I.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Just can't through it all real.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Though, Like I just I think it's such a holistic.
It needs to be a holistic conversation. It's not just transactional.
It's the who whole feels around this And that is
so interesting to hear about the heart sakra being green
and just these you know, really weird seeings and it
all comes down to that safety and security and so
(51:04):
of course, yeah, of course it's going to present us
with some with some blockers and barriers and biases and
our thought processes, so or so much to unpack so much.
I'm loving this conversation. I guess I'm curious. I mean,
you continue these conversations with your guest on your podcast
(51:26):
Rich Black Women, which I love the title. I think
unless we start putting that out into the universe, then
you know, we're not going to see it. So I'm
wondering if you could share a bit about what people
can expect if they were to come over and have
a listen to that show.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Well, firstly, being rich, as I mentioned, as I always mentioned,
is just a mindset or a state of mind. You know,
we are already so rich in culture, values, community, and
integrity as First Nations women. So ultimately, for me, you know,
my aim is to readdress the economic injustice that First
Nations women face and to really you know, honor our
(52:07):
women and empower our women to stand fully in their power.
So I'm currently also studying my Bachelor of Laws, wanting
to focus on you know, economic and commercial law, and
you know, within my lifetime, the conversations of money have
not been had within my family unit, and only recently,
you know, it's been opened up in my friendship circles.
(52:29):
So it's just, you know, it's really important that you know,
we really amplify the voices of our women to deepen
the awareness about the unique economic inequities that you know,
First Nations women face. You know, we talk about success,
we talk about connection to culture, and you know, us
as Black women, we are Black women before we or
(52:50):
anything else. So we really explore you know, our perspectives
or money, identity, business and community because you know, essentially
we are all coexisting in a capitalist society and despite
experienced genocide, dispossession, and colonization, we are still the matriarchs
within our families and communities and we still are here
(53:13):
and always will be. So I think it's just, you know,
it's really inspiring listening, learning and connecting with other First
Nations women, and you know that in itself is an
active financial self care. And I think, you know, we
often think of you know, podcast a modern day yarning circle,
and I think it's just so amazing that now you know,
(53:35):
something that we've cultivated for centuries, for years and years
and years it's now in a modernized version where it's
accessible to build that community and allieship between Indigenous people
and non indigenous people. So it's just, you know, really
about amplifying our voices, explaining you know, our stories and
(53:56):
things like that, because when we hear stories from us,
the women, like even today, I'm already feeling inspired. You know,
you feel that spiritual connection when you're yarning with people.
It's just a different thing. It's about, you know, creating
those conscious, intentional conversations. And I feel like that's what
the biggest inspiration is around that podcast.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
I love it consciously kind of culturally grounded conversations about
what it means to be an intersectional black woman who's
got desires and has, you know, choices that haven't always
been afforded to us, and how do we kind of
center all of these things. I love that. I absolutely
(54:39):
love that, you know, really encouraging people to you know,
I'm plugging that, I'm going to be a bit there.
I am adoring everything that you do, and I just
think it is just so important, you know, just as
I was saying before about us having up to one
hundred people in our lives who we have to say
yes to also when we support and you might know this,
(55:00):
but I was reading something the other day. We just said,
when you support one black women in business, the tree
cool down effect that it has to families and communities
because we operate from that circle regenerative state. You know,
when you support black businesses and black women, you're supporting
families and communities. And so I just love that you've
(55:22):
got a space for women to come and learn about that.
So thank you for your service. I'm just sitting in this.
I'm going to go and just kind of like sit
in these today. But I guess what I might say
is to maybe kind of pull it together for these
listeners today, is do you have any sort of affirmation
or anything that we can start to really reinforce to
(55:45):
tell ourselves about this notion of the rich mindset that
belongs to us as black women. Is there any sort
of yeah, practical affirmation that you use to tell remind
yourself that we can maybe in part on the listeners today.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
Well, I'm a huge affirmation manifestation girl. I every morning
I wake up, I literally in my office I have
all of my affirmations there which I'm constantly telling myself
every single day. So I think it's just so important
that you know, pay attention to the way that you
(56:21):
talk about money, change the way that you speak, and
retrain your subconscious money blocks. So you know, if you're
saying I'm so broke, I'm bad with money, i have
so much debt, it's all low vibrational affirmations that you're
saying to yourself. So the powerful shift in language, this
really allows you to open your mind and your belief
(56:43):
system to really align yourself with the energy of abundance
that you want to receive. So, you know, affirm good things,
affirm positive things. You know, when you first do it,
you'll sound crazy, but it's just about you know, saying
things out loud. You know, words are so valuable, words
carry so much weight, you know, just thinking about other
(57:05):
affirmation that you say. We also have an online resource
hub and I've actually got a whole list of affirmations
that you can print out, so I'll share that with
you afterwards. But you know, affirm that you are deserving
a financial freedom. That's the first thing, you know, know
that you're deserving of everything that you want to achieve
in life. Release your self limiting beliefs, you know, say
(57:29):
affirmations that really focus on your self concept and how
you view yourself, your self love and you know, allow
allow that to come in, allow abundance and prosperity to
flow into your life. At first, you be like, oh
my gosh, you know why. You know, as you mentioned before,
you thought when you bought a house, you were like, oh,
(57:50):
should feel good. But you know you've still got that
bit of oh my gosh, am I really deserving? You
know what about my other family and all of that stuff,
Like we're all deserving of that. So I think, you know,
just a firm release and allow my informations that I
really focus on every single day every day, a.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Firm release and allow What a beautiful way to sort
of yeah, put that into perspective for people. I'm so,
I'm so impressed with everything that you are putting out
into this world that you're probably receiving back. It's just, yeah,
I'm feeling it. I guess where can people come and
follow along and continue to feel these vibrations from your sister?
Speaker 3 (58:36):
So I'm currently having a social media detox, so I'm
off of Facebook, but you can find out what I'm
up to on the Rich Black Women Podcast. So the
instagram is at Rich Black Women. We currently do have
a giveaway going on at the moment, so make sure
you have a sas and enter, and of course join
(58:57):
our Facebook group. So that's the Indigenous Women's Financial Wellness Group.
It's a private group, you know, it's a really sacred
safe space where women can share all of their stories,
all of their learnings, and we also post all of
the tools and resources and all of our upcoming webinars
and events. So definitely come on and yeah, just be
(59:19):
surrounded by other amazing women.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
Thank you so much, Sis for all of these practical
wisdom that you're in partying. It's been so lovely to
connect with you. And yeah, everybody head over to the
Rich Black Women Podcast and follow sister girl in all
of her amazing work. Thank you so so much.
Speaker 3 (59:40):
Thank you so much for having me Sis. I hope
everyone you know enjoyed listening. Really take care of yourself,
your soul, and your spirits. I think that's just so
important for us to be able to do so. But
thank you for sharing the space with me.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
Sis, Thank you, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
You mam. If you're vibing this season of yarning up.
Then please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcasts from to show us some love, rate,
and review. Alternatively, you can get in contact and give
us some feedback by visiting www. Dot Carolinekow dot com
(01:00:21):
dot au
This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Welcome to Yarning Up, a podcast that showcases stories of
First Nations excellence to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
(00:24):
Proud Barbara woman and founder of Black Wattle Coaching and Consulting,
Caroline col This podcast was taped on the sacred, stolen,
and unseeded Aboriginal lands of the Runjuri people of the
Coolin Nation. I pay my deepest respects to them, my elders,
(00:48):
your elders, and all owners of country, of this beautiful
place that we call home. Yama, Yama, beautiful people.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome back to Yarning Up.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I am clearly so excited that you are once again
joining us for the show. I've woken up with an
abundance of energy, and if I'm being really honest, I
suspect it's because I spent all of yesterday on the couch,
eating chips and gravy food for the soul, watching ridiculous
(01:25):
TV on the couch and I've just woken up today
with an extra pep in my step, So all in
the name of healing. Highly recommend if you're having a
moment to take a moment. No, In all honesty, though
I permitted myself of a day of nothing yesterday, no meetings,
no calls, no social media.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It was the most productive thing that I could have done.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Because I, like many of the listeners and.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
The people who I work with, the people.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
In my community, have had such a differ be called
twelve months. Someone said to me the other day, it's
like when we were in COVID time, we were kind
of just like sleeping, and now we're just we're woken
up and we're startled and we're just running. And I
just thought that that was just such a great way
to think about where we're all at right now. And
(02:19):
I guess the duplicitedness of life. For myself personally, it
has been some of the most incredibly amazing times, euphoric,
achieving milestones, ticking off bucket list items like ted talks,
and you know, just things that I have never thought
(02:39):
would be available to me in my life has become
available through work and preparation and tenacity. But then equally so,
these beautiful times have been shadowed or bookended by a
deep sadness of loss. As you all know, parents and
(03:02):
community members and elders and uncles and aunties and just
this feeling of eternal grief right now. And so what
I'm saying is, if you need that day, do you
need to shut down and just be with yourself today
or you've been thinking about it, this is the reminder,
(03:22):
This is the PSA to do it, which is a
lovely segue into today's guest, the ever inspiring Lursia Jerome.
She's a proud jerry Ware Whackawaka and Wally Wally woman.
And today we spoke about self care and boundaries, but
(03:45):
we spoke about it in the context of money and finances,
which you know, this notion of economic prosperity and choice
and just two ideals and co steps that were certainly
not available to sister and I growing up. So it
was just a really kind of full circle moment to
(04:08):
be talking about these ideas. But we explored indigenous perspectives
of money, identity, business, community, and honestly, so so much
more about what makes a rich Black mindset. And I
(04:28):
personally took so much away from this conversation, as I
hope you do too.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Well.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I am so excited about my next guest sister girl,
Larisa Derome, who I've been following for quite some time
and really admiring the work that you're doing my sister
around financial self care, which I can't wait to kind
of delve into. But before we get into it, I
just want to say, ye, yeah, thank you so much
(05:01):
for joining me today. I'm so excited to connect with you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me today'sys.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
There's no denying there's been like a huge heaviness in
the world that we live in, and things have been
filled of light and darkness and joy and sadness, and
so yeah, I guess I get really really excited about
these conversations.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
These are the things that really fill me up.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And I'm so grateful that you're here and to connect
with you and especially just being another fellow sis who's
kicking goals. So so excited to learn more about you today.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
But as we do on this.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Show, before we hear about the amazing work that you're
doing around financial literacy financial self care, which is just
so important for our mob, so so important, I'd love
to just hear, yeah, a bit more about you personally, sister,
Like where did you grow up? Can you tell me
more about your mob, your fan Emily, your story.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah absolutely, well, yeah, as you mentioned, my name is
Larisia Jerome and I'm a proud Jena Wocka Woka and
Willie Willy woman, you know, with those strong ties to
Bonia Mountains in southern Queensland. I grew up on a
dairy country in western Sydney and Penrith and out in
Mount Jeort area. And you know, in this role that
(06:22):
I have now, I currently lead the Indigenous Women's Financial
Wellness Initiative here at First Nations Foundation. And you know,
for me personally, financial literacy, financial wellness was not existent
throughout my family. I grew up in a single mother household.
You know, my earliest childhood memories we lived in a
women's refuge and then you know, moving on to housing
(06:45):
commission and that continuous cycle of just living paycheck to paycheck.
And I just knew that, you know, growing up, I
was going to be that one to really break that
generational curse within my family. And you know, going from
living in a residential home when I was I think
I was seventeen and eighteen, and then I moved out
to my first apartment and then ended up eventually buying
(07:08):
my first home at the page of twenty one. And
so just working in these roles that I have had
the privilege to work in, it's really just allowed me
to you know, use my lived experiences and also build
my own financial capability to be able to share with others.
And I've had the privilege to do so within this role.
For sure.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Wow, you're a sister of my own heart, because yeah,
very just want to honor that story firstly, because it
blows my mind how much evolution has occurred within just
a generation. It really does. And yeah, my story quite similar.
I'm one of six, grew up with five kids in
the home. Mum was mostly a single mum. We lived
(07:52):
in Commission housing, paycheck to paycheck, not even our paycheck
to paycheck, other people in the streets paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
We would know who's.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Got money one week and who would be able to
cook up a feed, and we'd run it down to
Arnie Donners for a feed. And you know, we'd have
times where there was nothing in our house and we'd
go up the street and we know that someone would
be able to support us. But yeah, the idea of
like accruing any sense of wealth or having any of
(08:24):
those choices that were not available to us. So yeah,
I see that, and I would just want to recognize
that story of yours and yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So much to unpack, Yeah for sure. Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
You know, I'd love to just sort of open up
a little bit if I could, which is I understand
that you have a background in banking and you've worked
at the Commonwealth Bank, Indigenous Business Australia and also Women's
Legal Service Queensland. But I'd love to unpack a little
(08:58):
bit more about what you currently do at the Foundation
and this idea of the work that you're doing in
financial literacy for our community.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Can you help us understand that?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, of course. Well, just to you know, the first
yn is always about just a few statistics from research
that we did back in twenty nineteen here at the Foundation.
One in ten mob are financially secure, but nearly half
are classified as experiencing severe and high levels of financial stress.
So just to you know, that statistic in itself is alarming,
(09:33):
especially given the impacts of COVID nineteen natural disasters. Not
even unpacking you know, the other inequities that we face
as Indigenous people within this country. We are now in
that generation of people who are breaking those intergenerational patterns
of generations of systemic oppression. And you know, we often
talk about our intergenerational trauma, but what about our intergenerational
(09:58):
strengths as well. So within this program to support our women,
we've really created those trauma informed practices to achieve you know,
that overall economic empowerment. And you know a couple of
other things that came from that report that we did,
Through those studies that we did, you know, more than
fifty percent of Indigenous people recognized that the barriers to
(10:20):
accessing financial products and services were one they didn't know
enough about financial products and services too. They had money
shame and we're too proud to access these services. And
luckily with this one, this can be fixed, and which
is exactly why First Nations Foundation exists to really you know, educate,
(10:40):
empower and provide that financial literacy education to fill that gap,
to create you know, the ultimate financial prosperity and achieving
that intergenerational wealth. And you know that doesn't even cover
you know, the other economic disadvantages that we face as well,
which includes unemployment, financial problems, poverty, and that economic exclusion
(11:04):
so within the work that we do. We're a non
for profit organization and we have our My Money Dream program,
which is an online financial literacy training program which has
really been created by mob and for mobs. So it
helps us you know, really unpacked and learn the skills
to you know, create that financial security and prosperity. So
(11:27):
we really focus on you know, cultural the economy, determining
your own money dream, what good money habits are, and
creating a money plan and budget. So yeah, I've been really,
really really lucky and honored to be able to lead
the women's program for the last two years. We have
a private Facebook group with the Network of First Nations Women.
(11:48):
I write monthly online webinars, a money masterclass, and of
course I do some face to face training within communities
and really providing those self care sessions. We've got our
Tomorrow Money Women's website, which is an online resource education
hub for all things relating money matters, you know, career
and business, financial hardship, financial abuse, prevention, tax super literally
(12:13):
everything is in that one spot. So I'm just really
grateful that, you know, from the variety of different roles
that I've had, you know, working with CBA, working at
IBA within the Business Solutions team and housing solutions in
financial hardship and debt collection, and then most recently from
this job working at Women's Legal Service in the financial
(12:35):
abuse Prevention unit. So I can just bring all of
that information, all of those resources into the one program
and just making it really accessible and culturally relevant and
culturally safe for our women across the country. Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It's like the culmination of all of those things that
you've done with you like packaging up and giving it
back to mob in a way, which is which is
beautiful to see, but it sounds so comprehensive, you know,
talking about educating, yarning up budgets aspirations.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
You know, even just I see this a lot in the.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Coaching world as well, particularly the non Aboriginal coaching world,
which is really hyper individualized, like you know, and some
of it is not as culturally sensitive or is it
sort of even rooted in a feminist theory. It's very
like you know, this American dream and Australian dream, and
they do a lot of work around our beliefs around money.
(13:38):
You know, if you if you come from you know, poverty,
or you come from living near the poverty line. You know,
we do carry this notion as you've just described, that
shame and this inability to know what to do with money,
and this sense of not feeling worthy of acquiring money
(13:58):
or wealth. You know, I was speaking to a cousin
once and he was working in a high paying job.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I won't say what the job is, but high paying job, and.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You know, he was like, I didn't even know what
to do once I had all of this money, so
I would just drink it up and eat it and
bind it but fancy clothes because he thought that everything
he had just had to be disposed of, you know,
really quickly, and so there was no longevity in anything
that he did. So just having these really honest conversations
about it and our beliefs around money, especially if the
(14:27):
mob is so important, So that's awesome. I do just
want to touch on what you said about the notion
of I guess the other the more systemic issues around money,
which we know the cost of living right now is exorbitant.
You know, at the moment, people are struggling with the
data to day necessities, you know, fruit and veggies and
(14:47):
medications and fuel and all of those things. And we
do know that there are the social determinants of health
and poverty and how that can impact our mob, And
so I think it's it's so important that we often
I guess, straddle the two which, like you say, celebrate
the strengths of our mob in breaking these intergenerational curses,
(15:09):
if you will, but also acknowledge there is a long
way to go for us to all have access to
you know, wealth and choice and that kind of notion
of prosperity. Are you seeing changes? I mean, you're in
it every day. Are you seeing through the work that
you're doing, communities really take more ownership of their spending habits?
(15:32):
And are you seeing a change in how we as
people sort of think about money and equity and choice.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I guess yeah, well absolutely I have, And especially within
the Indigenous Women's Financial Wellness Program, you know, we focus
on financial wellness as your overall holistic financial health. You know,
whether that be mentally you want to achieve that financial wellness,
you want the mindset that euro abundant, that you're capable
(16:00):
and educated to achieve that financial wellness. You know, spiritually
you want that financial contentment. You want to be at ease,
comfortable and not worrying about, you know, the money shame,
or that sick feeling in your stomach, whether or not
your bills are going to be paid, or if your
family is okay, and then physically, you know, we all
want financial freedom, to be able to provide, to share
(16:22):
and have enough to support ourselves and of course our communities.
So I think even just opening up this space for
people to talk about it, to acknowledge it as well,
and just opening up the conversation because you know, even
now with you know, my girls, I'll have like a
little accountability check in and being like, oh, what are
(16:44):
your goals? What are you doing to reach those goals?
And you know, what are your self limiting beliefs around that?
And I feel like now we're in such a different
time where, you know, our ancestors have really paved the
way for us to have all of these opportunity unities,
and it's all about you know, it's it's hard enough
as it is to acknowledge what your financial position is
(17:06):
in the first instance, and I understand that, and we
all should understand that, but we also need to remember that,
you know, we have survived every single day that we
didn't think that we would so it's about how you
take accountability, what you're putting in place to actually take
control of your future. And you know, within those modules
(17:27):
that we do within our training, the first one is
all about you know, the Western economic system where it
considers it good to accumulate wealth beyond what's necessary. You know,
that acquisition of land and natural resources that really became
the basis of wealth building here in Australia. And you know,
the Western concept of land ownership has become a strong
(17:49):
cultural value, which you know is the Australian dream. And
you know, understanding for our mob, we perceive in value
money way differently. You know, there is more of a
folk on the collective as a family and as a community.
And you know Europeans have a history of expansion and
lend acquisition. You know, the British Empire wanted to expand,
(18:12):
just changing things all over the world. But First Nations people,
you know, we lived off the land. We preserve the
land and we have no desire to really you know,
grow out tribal footprint and you know, we just want
to live off the land. We also have the generational
impacts of stolen wages that have stopped us from being
(18:33):
in control of our own money, living on rations and
basic cards. But now you know, we've got so much
opportunity and so many things that I think a lot
of people are finding more. You know, we've got financial
capability workers and financial counselors, and we've actually got an
aboriginal network of people that work on the ground, that
(18:55):
are working with grassroots communities and really you know, being
the champions within their communities to making sure that all
of this is accessible. And you know, all of our
mob have that, you know, that sense of safety and
security I guess in just having access to financial literacy
education is just so powerful women having that empowerment too,
(19:18):
because you know, outside of work as well, I'm also
in the life coaching space. You know, I really focus
on self concept and that self directed healing because my
biggest belief is that healing ourselves is generational wealth, not
just in a money sense, but you know, from health
is wealth, and that generational wealth increases when generational curses
(19:41):
are broken. And you know, passing that healing, having the
conversations is how we inspire others. And you know, healing,
of course is linear. We will always be healing, but
when we heal ourselves, we heal others. We heal our
mothers and our grandmothers. So I think, just to answer
your question, yeah, it's just a complete different world right now,
(20:04):
and I think it's just amazing to see and it's
just inspiring because you know, I was doing some training
a couple of months ago with girls that were in
high school and they were asking me questions about tax
super building businesses and all of these things, and I'm like,
I was not thinking about, you know, building a business
when I was that age. So it's just like, how
(20:26):
amazing is it that, you know, our future leaders are
now coming up, They're coming in their power. You know,
they're educated, they're abundant, they're feeling the vibes, they've got
that energy. And yeah, it's just so amazing to see
the difference that the impact on you know, women just
(20:46):
standing in their power has been, especially within this financial space.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Wow, I love this.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I'm so here for this conversation. I think, oh, there's
so much to unpack there. But I think the main
thing I would take away that yes, we have had
a complicated relationship with money in this country and labor
in this country, but it doesn't have to be that way,
and we are seeing people really yeah, as you say,
(21:13):
standing in their power and not allowing those kind of
old intergenerational sort of wounds really carry forward and really
grabbing all of this this knowledge. I think it's really
great to hear that not only is the work that
you're doing about helping mob be informed and empowered and
accountable to this and learn, but also reframing what is
(21:37):
wealth for our community? You know. I think that is
something that is so important when we think about what
exists and where we're headed. We're at this point in
our lives after we've just come out of COVID, I
believe anyway, where we are really as modern societies re
establishing our values and this kind of capitalist economy where
(21:59):
you just a crew and a crew and a crew
and you have these pockets and vacuums of power. I
don't think that that's going to be where we all
want to sit. I think we're looking more at this
notion of a regenerative economy where we have what we need,
we have time in our lives for families and communities,
(22:20):
and we give back what we need to build the
solid foundations of communities. I mean, maybe that's utopia and
I'm describing, but I do feel that I do think
that people are really rethinking their relationship with work and
then their relationship with their wage. And you know, even
(22:41):
for instance, within Blackwater, we've just brought in some stuff
and I remember when I put out the ad, I thought, well,
who's going to want to work, you know, twenty hours
a week. And when we put out the advert, I
put in there that look, we've got twenty hours of
work a week. It's not a full time wage. But
we've also got to be putting in a lot of
emphasis on wellness. So we do wellness sessions. I pay
(23:03):
for wellness coaching and other things outside of work, and
we do a really big lot of work around professional
development because I really want to work myself out of
this job, you know, eventually. And I was so surprised
I had so many people put in for the job
because people want flexibility. People want to do things that
(23:24):
give them meaning, but don't keep them tied to a desk,
to a man, to a system, all that jazz.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So I think our.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Relationship with work is changing, and so too will our
habits with money and power.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Eventually, I'm going to take some time going to take
some time.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
But I love that you guys are already talking about
reframing around the indigenous black fellow economy, looking at it
being more circular instead of you know, power vacuums, like.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Oh okay, I'm already so GTA she's ready ready for this?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Well.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I mean, it's just such an interesting place that you know,
you and I two sister girls talking about money and finances,
and it just it really does just hit me thinking
about you know, so many of our old ones have
you know, lived and died with nothing to their names
and being a part of this sort of new wave
(24:21):
of people who have access to things, and it's like, okay,
now what do we do with this? Like what do
we do with this little bit of extra that we've got?
How do we consciously move through this world with intention
and purpose for all but still you know, get yours
of course, But how do we do that? And it's
something that I really oscillate and have like internal dialogue
(24:43):
with all the time because it's my money story. My
money is shame, you know, thinking I've got to give
everything I've got off my back to everyone and all
of that. So it's something I'm really grappling with as
a business owner and trying to give what I can
back but also sustain the business. So I'd love to
(25:03):
actually unpack this notion. You wrote a beautiful opinion piece
in R two nine Refinery two nine. A big shout
out to them. I love those mobs you spoke about
in the article, this notion of financial self care. Can
you break it down for all the brothers and sisters
at home? What is financial self care?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Well? In short, well, you know, financial self care is
just so important because it's all about you know, what
you do as an individual. Now, if you're embodying this capable, abundant,
high vibrational energy, you know, and that self respect that
you have for yourself, you know that really everyone will
(25:49):
pick up on your energy straight up. You know they
will eventually really mirror the attitude that you have towards
money through self development and self help. Education. Education is
the number one thing. Of course, Knowledge is power, and
it's just so important that you know, we've got all
of these resources and tools that are available now, So
it's just about you know, you taking that first step,
(26:11):
taking that accountability for yourself and you know, just gaining
all of that information so you can you know, look online,
do the training like the My Money Dream training that
I've mentioned, you know, research on our Tomorrow Money women's website,
we've also got just the normal Tomorrow Money as well,
so that's accessible to men, women, everybody of course. And
(26:33):
then in the women's website we really focus on you know,
career and business and that financial abuse prevention stuff and
healthy relationships and money as well. You know, read books
like The Barefoot Investor Rich Dad, Poor Dad was one
of my favorite books. And also journaling. I think that
is one of the biggest things that has helped me
(26:54):
a lot on my healing journey. You know, even outside
of that financial self care apart, I think just overall
self care because I'm not very good with, you know,
explaining my emotions or anything. And then just years and
years of therapy, it's just like, you know, if you're journaling,
you're really uplifting yourself and then just you know, taking
(27:16):
away all of that baggage as well, so you know,
find out and do the inner self reflection, you know,
write down what has impacted your money believes as a person,
and then also what are you doing to change this pattern?
For yourself and for your family. You can listen to podcasts.
There's so many amazing women out there, men out there
(27:37):
that have these really amazing podcasts, especially yours, How Rich
Black Women One. You know, meditation is so important as well.
I feel for myself, it's just around that grounding aspect
and it's about leading that intentional, conscious living, being grateful
for everything that you have and for everything that will
(28:00):
come to you. Another important thing, you know, that community empowerment.
Join networks where you're connecting with women that you want
to achieve your goals, you know, who believe in you
and you want to keep accountable, and also just celebrating
those small wins. I think that we just need to
(28:20):
really realize that, you know, we are so deserving of
a beautiful, abundant, fruitful life. And the more people that
you have surrounded around you that believe the same thing,
it's just going to be amazing. Like, honestly, I feel
like the networks that we have, and especially as Black women,
(28:40):
it's all love, it's all you know, we all want
to achieve, you know, financial prosperity. We all want our
sister girls to be the best versions of themselves. So
just yeah, financial self care is all of those things,
and it's also about honoring your boundaries as well.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, I love this. I mean, if I could
try my best to summarize all the beautiful things that
you have outlined and some of the practices that I
also adopt. Is this notion that self care, if we
are living in a conscious, intentional state in our lives,
(29:21):
that is going to transcend in how we show up
with our money.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You know, like how we I say this a lot
to my clients as well.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You know, how we show up in our relationships is
how we show up in our business. How we show
up in our business is how we show up with
our money. If we are avoiding our emotions impulsive, living
in reactionary mode, then of course that's going to transcend
in maybe going out and spending all your money on
booze or spending all your money on that overpriced dressed
(29:52):
to fill that void of how you're feeling. So there's
a relationship between our emotions, our intentions, and our FI answers, right.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, exactly, It's all intertwined. And I feel like, you know,
humbugging is huge within our communities. You know, we've always
got that sense of that cultural obligation to take care
of everybody around us, and as women, as the matriarchs
within our families, we always feel like we need to
(30:21):
save everyone, but then we're abandoning our own self care.
You know, to honor your boundaries, it's okay to say no, yeah,
you know, you have to create a realistic budget that
works for you. First. If you have enough in your
budget and for others, you know, then that's okay to
lend money out, but you also need to make sure
that you know it's that reciprocated energy as well. You know,
(30:44):
one week you may cook some food for you know,
your Annie and your cousins one week, and then the
next they'll come and mow your lawns or something. So
it's not like you're just constantly giving out and getting
nothing in return. It's about having those strong boundaries and
actually honoring them. You know, you've got to be honest,
and you've got to have goals as well. You must
(31:05):
set those goals. So having financial goals also allows you
to see the bigger picture and save towards something that
will benefit you in the long run. You have to
have discipline, hould yourself accountable, along with others as well.
Sometimes we may even be the ones who humbug. I
know when I was younger, I used to humbug a month,
hours a hard time, and now it's the complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
True.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
God, Yeah, it's just like it's crazy. And then you know,
of course you have to be patient. You know, you're
not going to completely change your life overnight. It's just
about you know, giving yourself that grace and just that
level of understanding that it's okay. You know, you just
need to be patient. You've got to incorporate the self care.
You know, you work hard, so you deserve to reap
(31:52):
the rewards as well, you know, and you've got to
be consistent.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I feel like that following through when you're saying that
you're going to do something is a very big struggle
for a lot of people. And then of course you
know that flexibility you must adjust when necessary. You know,
of course there's things like unfortunately sorry, business that comes up,
and then you've got to you know, help family, you've
got to cook for everyone and all of those things
(32:17):
as well. But yeah, I think just honoring your boundaries.
As I mentioned before, you know, when you're embodying that
abundant version of yourself. And when you're respecting yourself, you
have that energy that radiates in so many ways and
without you even knowing, people pick up on that. People
will eventually, you know, pick up those behaviors as well,
(32:39):
and it really motivates them to get their shit together
as well. And you know, it's it's going to be
hard saying no the first time. Of course, you know,
someone will be pissed off that you're not giving them
alone when they know that you're cashed up or you
just got paid. But it's all about just you know,
changing the mindset and just keeping people accountable and yourself
accountable as well.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Hundred Oh my goodness, I feel you on that and
the research we know so anie knowledge And in turn
I did some work around Aboriginal women and how many
or Aboriginal people rather predominantly women, who we have in
our lives and on average we have up to one
hundred people who we are emotionally and financially responsible for.
(33:24):
That's a bit of gunnah, yeah, right, And then I
had a look and you know, like I'm one of
six mums, one of eleven. You know, it doesn't take
long before you look at your cousins and this and
that niece's nephews.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Even the ones you haven't met yet.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Oh, true, God, True God.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
And so you know, there are so many people in
our lives who we feel a strong sense to say
yes too. It isn't easy saying no and expressing your capacity,
but I can assure you once you start to do
it, it does feel easier, and you do, you do get
better at it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And I think, like you've said, see what is important.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I run, you know, burnout work with women and we
do a whole module on how to say no when
we do role plays and scenarios and we yann about it.
And you know, it's one of those things that I
think acknowledging that it's difficult, but acknowledging as you've said,
that there's context. That it's not like an electric fence
like this is yes and no. It's within the context
(34:24):
of each situation, which requires you to have the space
mentally to be able to kind of sit with each request,
if that makes sense. And know that sometimes things might
pop up like sorry business or you know, things that
are added control court. You know, you might need to
get your family to court, you might need to do this,
you might need to do that, but you know, recognizing
(34:46):
what requests you will take on and sitting with those
and just knowing that it does get easier and you
are allowed to say no. It doesn't make you a
bad person a bad family member. It means that you,
I guess, flexing your capacity as an individual as well.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And you know.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
People do treat you how you allow them to be treated.
And if you're just constantly saying yes and dishing out everything,
you're only creating this inner angst within yourself and then
that has ripple effects as well. So yeah, it's learning
how we can say yes and how we can say
no and what emotion that brings up. The other thing
(35:27):
which you touch on which I just want to reinforce
is and again this kind of idea of it not
being a monetary benefit but a emotional benefit, and you
know how you can be really clear, Yeah, this notion
of it doesn't have to always be money. It could
be a time, it could be dropping off a meal
and kind of yes, saving up front what you want
(35:49):
to get out of the interaction. That's a really interesting proposition.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, exactly. And it's like I remember one of my
oh so when We went to sit On Land a
couple of months back. We did some training with all
of the youth workers out there and from all the
different homelands, so they came in, we did some of
my money dream training with them, and some of them
were saying, you know, everyone's money goals are completely different,
and for one of them, they were saying that when
(36:18):
you get paid so that everyone knows you payday, people
will literally wait outside of all works waiting for you,
humbugging you for your money straight away before you've even
done your own thing with it. And then the emotional
ties to that, making you feel bad if you don't
get give them alone or anything like that they were
(36:39):
talking about sometimes it's really really intense where they're you know,
threatening you know, self harm or you know, all of
those sorts of things because you're not giving them money.
Like that's how intense it can be within some communities.
And I think that, you know, Nonindigenous people will never
understand the cultureation that we have to our mob. And
(37:03):
it's like, you know, a couple of weeks ago, I
got asks for a loan and for food or something,
and I just knew that it wasn't going to be
for food. But I was just like, you know what, CEUs,
I will, you know, tell me what groceries you want.
I will order it and I'll come drop it off,
or I'll cook something up. It's about those sorts of
things as well. And it's not like getting away from
(37:25):
the conversation. It's about you know, having yourself in control.
If the energy isn't reciprocated, if you know that you're
not going to get your money back. I feel like
instead of just you know, being out of money all
the time and just constantly giving, giving and giving and
not getting anything back, it's about you know, standing in
your power as well, and also you know, offering alternatives.
(37:48):
You know, oh yeah you want to loan my brother,
If he asks for a loan, I'll be like, yeah,
come mow the lawns and then you can. You know.
It's just about that reciprocated energy. And I think it's
just so important that we're constantly talking about this because
we can't save everyone unless we save ourselves first.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yeah, been there, done that in my twenties, and I
can tell you right now you ain't save it no one.
You're running yourself into the ground and you end up
really and your relationships ultimately suffer from that. You know,
there's a resentment, you know, next time everyone's around, everyone's
on a charge, everyone's having a bus start, there's Yeah,
it's not a sustainable way. So putting your needs up front,
(38:29):
and it doesn't have to be confrontational, like yeah, cool,
no worries, I'll help.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
You if you're able to do this or this.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
This is what maybe paying me back might look like
for me, you know, just having a really open, honest conversation.
It feels a bit uncomfortable at first, but it really
does help in the long run. Yeah, definitely, I'm curious
to understand, Sis, what's maybe one thing that people who
are listening can do to become more consciously aware of
(38:58):
their spending habit?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I guess, and I think habits is the keyword.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You know. Is there any advice you would give or
one key piece of advice to somebody who's listening about, Yeah,
how they can become more aware of where their money,
which is energy as well, is going. You know.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, I love how you just said that, because that's
exactly what it is. So if you don't like the
energy of the word money, then think of it as
sacred wealth or sovereign prosperity or whatever makes you admit
that you want to build and cultivate that generational wealth.
That is what I always say and what I lead
(39:36):
back into. So, as you mentioned, you know, money is
energy and money is a resource, and you know that
energy is the ability to do work. And I always
say this. Everyone always asks why did you call it
rich black women? You know, being rich is just a
mindset or a state of mind. This energy, like anything else,
(39:57):
is impacted by the thoughts, words, and that we fuel
it with. So it's just so important that you know,
we understand you know, the saying energy flows where attention goes.
So a lot of our mob we have those subconscious
money blocks and negative money beliefs, which is you know,
it's completely understandable, you know when we think about the
(40:19):
stolen wages and not being in full control of our
own money. But you know, money is the same energy
of trust. Hence the term trust fund and the saying
in God we trust. This all has to do with money.
So I think once we understand that and we understand
around the psychology of money, all of these things, it's about,
(40:41):
as I mentioned, being accountable. You know, actually taking that
first step into where are you at as a person
within your money journey? You know, are you in debt,
are you doing anything to improve that? Or are you
just essentially, you know, sitting in that mindset of that
victim mentality and you're just like getting getting by, but
(41:01):
you're you know, you want to cultivate that, you know,
that rich mindset those things as well. So it's about
doing that, and it's also about you know, making sure
that you have that financial literacy education because a lot
of our mob, unfortunately, are really the first ones that
you know, those pay loans which are very very dangerous,
(41:25):
and a lot of our yeah like after pay, yeah,
after pay, cash converters, all of those different things. It's
like those quick money things for our mob to get
involved with, which in the long run, because a lot
of people aren't educated in their own you know, rights
and responsibilities, and because they also take advantage of a
(41:49):
lot of our mob. So it's just about you know,
being empowered, being educated. Knowing what your responsibilities and your
rights are as a consumer is so important. And I
also think you know, just as much as you're educated,
there are so many ways to get out of debt.
There are so many people to help you. There is
(42:09):
no shame in getting help whatsoever. That's one of the
biggest things that you know, people will come to a
webinar and you know, it's really heavy the first couple
of modules because we're talking about, you know, how to
obtain your credit file report and especially working in the
Financial Abuse Prevention Unit. So when somebody would come to
me from you know, a relationship breakdown or things like that,
(42:33):
we would then obtain a credit file report. Now, if
you have not kept up to date with your credit
file report, Unfortunately, in a lot of cases for our
First Nations women, there have been multiple you know, debts
that were taken out in somebody's name that they were
unaware of. So when they would come to the Financial
(42:54):
Abuse Prevention Unit, we would find that out. Then in
there and firstly you go through the trauma of you know,
domestic and family violence and then now you've got this
other thing where you're completely unaware of it. So it's
about keeping up to date, making sure your financial administration
is under control. And it's so important for us as
(43:18):
women to be independent, be financially independent. Do not rely
on somebody else to come save you. Do not rely
on anybody else to be in control of your money.
It's so important that we really cultivate those healthy relationships
around money as well.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Gosh, I love this.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I just admire the fact that the work is really
delving into this kind of the belief, the shame, but
then also the practicalities of this. And you're right, like
you know, once a family breaks down or there's deep
domestic violence, they're not usually the things that are at
the forefront of your mind around clearing your debts and
(43:59):
having both companies and debt companies chasing after you and
going on payment plans and doing all of those things,
because you were just in survival mode, right, and so
these things become afterthoughts, but they can become real barriers
for people later. And so I just think it's so
great that you provide that sort of holistic level of support.
And I think what's really interesting about some of these beliefs,
(44:22):
especially with money, is if you ask people about we
do this at Blackwater with some of the businesses around.
You've got money as a currency and energy source. You know,
it comes in, it goes just you know, just like
most things, but underneath, money is a whole constellation of
(44:43):
feelings and emotions and ideas and socialization around security and
agency and choice and how you're perceived in society. So
money represents all these like really complicated, interrelated sort of
underlying feelings and emotions, and they it's like, how do
(45:05):
we just yeah, get better at sitting with what does
that mean? I just want to share a quick yarn
before I hear about your podcast, which I'm very excited to.
I'll be honest, I definitely in my twenties carried forward
the lessons I had learned, which you know, coming from
single mom, we definitely didn't go without. We had a
(45:25):
lot of love and abundance, but it was never in
the financial sense. You know, we weren't all dressed up
in all the brands and all of that stuff, but
we all looked after each other. But there was no
sense of longevity, savings, even having enough money to go
on a holiday. You know, it was just so out
of the question. And so I definitely kind of carry
(45:45):
that into my twenties a lot and just live paycheck
to paycheck, charge to charge, worked hard, played hard, you know,
just went through that cycle. And I met my partner Michael.
We've been together for eleven years. His Greek heritage, and
his family grew up with nothing, but they worked their
holes off and they put all of their money into
(46:07):
property and they were able to use property as a
way to get ahead in life. Really, and I remember
his seven years six years older than me. We bought
a house and the process of buying this house, which
I'm so grateful for, but the emotional trauma that it
(46:28):
put me through. I had this huge existential crisis one
because I'd never even been anchored somewhere long enough in
my life to be settled.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
We moved around, Mum was.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Married three times, of all three times in a big black,
blended family comings and goings and things. So to have
something so rooted in life and then just this emotional
turmol that I went through, I was so resistant and
I was like, oh my god, I have this deep
seated belief about money and having a house, and you know,
(47:01):
even kind of shaming myself because I was the lucky
one in my family to have this thing that's come
my way. And oh, it was probably a few months
of just this turmoil and.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Should I should fail you, I feel you so much
on this and it's just, you know, it brings you
back to you know, for our mob before invasion, there
was no need for money Onceoever, you know, trading and
bartering occurred within our communities. You know, everyone has their
own roles and responsibilities, you know, from caring for children,
(47:34):
hunting and preparing food, and you know those resources are
shared with family and kin and the wider community. A
Western capitalist economy is different. You know, you work, you
get paid, you own your own money and assets. People
sell and you buy, and it's really you know that
individual you own your own land and those material possessions,
(47:56):
and there is less obligation to share that individually cumulating
wealth with the collective. So I think you know, over time,
this economic mindset, that's what's really built that intergenerational wealth
for White Australians. And you know, for a lot of
First Nations people, we have trust issues, especially in systems
(48:17):
that weren't built to support our people. You know, trusting
in ourselves and our abilities is allowing ourselves to really
step into our power. You know, White Australians, you know,
they have a better ability of faking and masking their
trust issues. And you know that could be a controversial topic,
but you know through their own histories. They understand, you know,
(48:39):
the power of connections and accumulating wealth and you know,
and white Australians generally feel that more security, that more safety,
you know, the feeling of being safe and understanding the
idea of manifestation and embodying that has really built in
over generations. And you know, whether you're religious or not,
(49:00):
the saying trust in God or your ancestors, the divine.
You know, as I mentioned before, money is the same
energy of trust. Hence the saying in God we trust
and you know, we really focus on, you know, with money,
the root chakra that's feeling safe and secure to be
able to receive that money and live that luxurious lifestyle.
(49:23):
And that's really the practice of you know, embodying that
safety and security. Many of us grew up in the
environment where there was a lack of trust. Many of
us didn't feel protected, and you know, you must feel
safe and have a strong knowing that you're protected. And
I think us as aboritional women are always protected by
our ancestors and we need to remember this all the time.
(49:46):
And of course, you know, the heart chakra, it's green,
the color of money, so it's meant to be shared,
to reduce, to grow, and to build. You know, giving
and receiving is one of our cultural strengths. You know,
we give and we share with that communit it is.
And you know, by increasing how money energy and aligning
it and aligning ourselves with this energy, you know, we
(50:07):
could attract all the abundance that we want. And that's
not only just you know, attracting that for ourselves, but
that's you know, as you mentioned earlier, we've got a
network of already one hundred women we're also cultivated around
as well.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, wow, there is so much to unpack with you.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
I don't know what your what your what your client
schedule looks like, but I feel like I feel personally
really drawn to this work and I would I'm.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Like, have you got any time to take any more clients?
Because I.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Just can't through it all real.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Though, Like I just I think it's such a holistic.
It needs to be a holistic conversation. It's not just transactional.
It's the who whole feels around this And that is
so interesting to hear about the heart sakra being green
and just these you know, really weird seeings and it
all comes down to that safety and security and so
(51:04):
of course, yeah, of course it's going to present us
with some with some blockers and barriers and biases and
our thought processes, so or so much to unpack so much.
I'm loving this conversation. I guess I'm curious. I mean,
you continue these conversations with your guest on your podcast
(51:26):
Rich Black Women, which I love the title. I think
unless we start putting that out into the universe, then
you know, we're not going to see it. So I'm
wondering if you could share a bit about what people
can expect if they were to come over and have
a listen to that show.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Well, firstly, being rich, as I mentioned, as I always mentioned,
is just a mindset or a state of mind. You know,
we are already so rich in culture, values, community, and
integrity as First Nations women. So ultimately, for me, you know,
my aim is to readdress the economic injustice that First
Nations women face and to really you know, honor our
(52:07):
women and empower our women to stand fully in their power.
So I'm currently also studying my Bachelor of Laws, wanting
to focus on you know, economic and commercial law, and
you know, within my lifetime, the conversations of money have
not been had within my family unit, and only recently,
you know, it's been opened up in my friendship circles.
(52:29):
So it's just, you know, it's really important that you know,
we really amplify the voices of our women to deepen
the awareness about the unique economic inequities that you know,
First Nations women face. You know, we talk about success,
we talk about connection to culture, and you know, us
as Black women, we are Black women before we or
(52:50):
anything else. So we really explore you know, our perspectives
or money, identity, business and community because you know, essentially
we are all coexisting in a capitalist society and despite
experienced genocide, dispossession, and colonization, we are still the matriarchs
within our families and communities and we still are here
(53:13):
and always will be. So I think it's just, you know,
it's really inspiring listening, learning and connecting with other First
Nations women, and you know that in itself is an
active financial self care. And I think, you know, we
often think of you know, podcast a modern day yarning circle,
and I think it's just so amazing that now you know,
(53:35):
something that we've cultivated for centuries, for years and years
and years it's now in a modernized version where it's
accessible to build that community and allieship between Indigenous people
and non indigenous people. So it's just, you know, really
about amplifying our voices, explaining you know, our stories and
(53:56):
things like that, because when we hear stories from us,
the women, like even today, I'm already feeling inspired. You know,
you feel that spiritual connection when you're yarning with people.
It's just a different thing. It's about, you know, creating
those conscious, intentional conversations. And I feel like that's what
the biggest inspiration is around that podcast.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
I love it consciously kind of culturally grounded conversations about
what it means to be an intersectional black woman who's
got desires and has, you know, choices that haven't always
been afforded to us, and how do we kind of
center all of these things. I love that. I absolutely
(54:39):
love that, you know, really encouraging people to you know,
I'm plugging that, I'm going to be a bit there.
I am adoring everything that you do, and I just
think it is just so important, you know, just as
I was saying before about us having up to one
hundred people in our lives who we have to say
yes to also when we support and you might know this,
(55:00):
but I was reading something the other day. We just said,
when you support one black women in business, the tree
cool down effect that it has to families and communities
because we operate from that circle regenerative state. You know,
when you support black businesses and black women, you're supporting
families and communities. And so I just love that you've
(55:22):
got a space for women to come and learn about that.
So thank you for your service. I'm just sitting in this.
I'm going to go and just kind of like sit
in these today. But I guess what I might say
is to maybe kind of pull it together for these
listeners today, is do you have any sort of affirmation
or anything that we can start to really reinforce to
(55:45):
tell ourselves about this notion of the rich mindset that
belongs to us as black women. Is there any sort
of yeah, practical affirmation that you use to tell remind
yourself that we can maybe in part on the listeners today.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
Well, I'm a huge affirmation manifestation girl. I every morning
I wake up, I literally in my office I have
all of my affirmations there which I'm constantly telling myself
every single day. So I think it's just so important
that you know, pay attention to the way that you
(56:21):
talk about money, change the way that you speak, and
retrain your subconscious money blocks. So you know, if you're
saying I'm so broke, I'm bad with money, i have
so much debt, it's all low vibrational affirmations that you're
saying to yourself. So the powerful shift in language, this
really allows you to open your mind and your belief
(56:43):
system to really align yourself with the energy of abundance
that you want to receive. So, you know, affirm good things,
affirm positive things. You know, when you first do it,
you'll sound crazy, but it's just about you know, saying
things out loud. You know, words are so valuable, words
carry so much weight, you know, just thinking about other
(57:05):
affirmation that you say. We also have an online resource
hub and I've actually got a whole list of affirmations
that you can print out, so I'll share that with
you afterwards. But you know, affirm that you are deserving
a financial freedom. That's the first thing, you know, know
that you're deserving of everything that you want to achieve
in life. Release your self limiting beliefs, you know, say
(57:29):
affirmations that really focus on your self concept and how
you view yourself, your self love and you know, allow
allow that to come in, allow abundance and prosperity to
flow into your life. At first, you be like, oh
my gosh, you know why. You know, as you mentioned before,
you thought when you bought a house, you were like, oh,
(57:50):
should feel good. But you know you've still got that
bit of oh my gosh, am I really deserving? You
know what about my other family and all of that stuff,
Like we're all deserving of that. So I think, you know,
just a firm release and allow my informations that I
really focus on every single day every day, a.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Firm release and allow What a beautiful way to sort
of yeah, put that into perspective for people. I'm so,
I'm so impressed with everything that you are putting out
into this world that you're probably receiving back. It's just, yeah,
I'm feeling it. I guess where can people come and
follow along and continue to feel these vibrations from your sister?
Speaker 3 (58:36):
So I'm currently having a social media detox, so I'm
off of Facebook, but you can find out what I'm
up to on the Rich Black Women Podcast. So the
instagram is at Rich Black Women. We currently do have
a giveaway going on at the moment, so make sure
you have a sas and enter, and of course join
(58:57):
our Facebook group. So that's the Indigenous Women's Financial Wellness Group.
It's a private group, you know, it's a really sacred
safe space where women can share all of their stories,
all of their learnings, and we also post all of
the tools and resources and all of our upcoming webinars
and events. So definitely come on and yeah, just be
(59:19):
surrounded by other amazing women.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
Thank you so much, Sis for all of these practical
wisdom that you're in partying. It's been so lovely to
connect with you. And yeah, everybody head over to the
Rich Black Women Podcast and follow sister girl in all
of her amazing work. Thank you so so much.
Speaker 3 (59:40):
Thank you so much for having me Sis. I hope
everyone you know enjoyed listening. Really take care of yourself,
your soul, and your spirits. I think that's just so
important for us to be able to do so. But
thank you for sharing the space with me.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
Sis, Thank you, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
You mam. If you're vibing this season of yarning up.
Then please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcasts from to show us some love, rate,
and review. Alternatively, you can get in contact and give
us some feedback by visiting www. Dot Carolinekow dot com
(01:00:21):
dot au
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!