In this episode of Yarning Up, we welcome renowned sexologist and sex educator Lauren French, a Karajarri woman who grew up on Larrakia Country in Darwin.
Lauren is a trailblazer in supporting couples and individuals to free their anxiety around sex to experience deeper connection and pleasure.
Together they explored the impact of colonial narratives on body autonomy and the importance of pleasure as a form of resistance and healing for First Nations people. Lauren shares insights from her own journey, her dedication to decolonising sex education, and the unique strengths and challenges she sees mob face in practice.
This powerful dialogue invites listeners to reconsider ideas of intimacy, joy, and self-acceptance while embracing a culturally rich, holistic view of body sovereignty.
To connect with Lauren and learn more about her work, all relevant links are below:
Follow her on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/lauren.french.sexologist/
Visit her website here: https://lauren-french.com/
Visit Body Safety Australia here: https://www.bodysafetyaustralia.com.au/
Follow Caroline on Instagram:
@blak_wattle_coaching and learn more about working with Caroline here.
We would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation where this podcast was taped, and pay our respects to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders, past, present, and emerging across Australia.
This podcast is brought to you by On Track Studio.
www.ontrackstudio.com.au
@on.track.studio
For advertising opportunities, please email: hello@ontrackstudio.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Podcast Unite our Voices. This podcast is brought to you
by on Track Studio. Welcome to Yannier, the podcast that
showcases First Nations stories and conversations to help us learn
(00:25):
and unlearn Australia's history to work towards a better future.
I'm your host, proud barber woman and founder of Black
Wattel Coaching and Consulting, Caroline cow. We acknowledge the rundery
people and elders where this podcast is taped, but we
(00:47):
also acknowledge the lands that you are listening in from today.
It always was and always will be unseated aboriginal and
tourist Red Islander Land well as someone who has been
on a huge healing journey and particularly I guess connecting
or finding ways to connect back to my own body.
(01:10):
I'm really excited about today's conversation with a really special
sister who is leading the way in how we think
about sex education, especially for young people and for our
moms and for queer folks. And I'm just so excited
to have you here today. Lauren French, sex educator and sexologist.
Welcome to Yarning Up.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh, thanks thanks for having me. It's so like deadly
to be here and having a chat, and I I
always love a good yarn.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, thank you, Sis. I'm so grateful you here. I
just I'm a huge fan of the work you're doing,
because no one is really out here talking about what
it means for our mob to feel, you know, sex confident,
understand things like consent and just how we feel our
most deadly self in our bodies. So I'm just so
(02:00):
grateful for you to be here, Sis, So thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Of course I would not want to be anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, let's dive right in. I mean, you have a
huge repertoire of things that you have done and passions
and things you've sort of poured into this world around
sex education and around supporting Aboriginal families and children to
understand safety and empowerment and their rights. But I want
(02:28):
to ask you just off the top, you know, how
would you firstly describe yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, I always love a good intro. So I am.
I am a proud codairy woman. I am a proud
bisexual woman. I'm a proud sexologist, an educator, and change maker.
My pronouns are she Her. I live in beautiful numb
(02:54):
but I'm from Larakia country up in Darwin, that's where
most of my mob live currently. And I am just
someone who has always been comfortable talking about things that
made other people uncomfortable. Like I was that kid in
puberty class that was so excited to talk about like
periods and bodies and sex, and I was like, Oh,
(03:16):
this is so fascinating, and I never you know, it
took me a really long time to understand why other
people found it so difficult to talk about. So I'm
just someone who's always been comfortable having these conversations, have
in these yarns. And I really believe that, you know,
everyone has a right to pleasure, has a right to
(03:38):
you know, sexual pleasure, whether it's solo sexual pleasure, whether
it's safe sexual pleasure with partners. I think we have
a right to educate ourselves around our body and the
kind of sexual experience we want. And I think it's like,
in a way, deadly activism to actually embrace pleasure, because
I think so many colonial structures and Western institutions see
(04:00):
pleasure as you know, hedonistic or selfish or you know,
it's put in all a real deficit shame. Oh, they
love to put shame on us. And so I think
there's something really, you know it is it is a stand.
It is a you know, it's it's us taking a
stand we say no. Pleasure is part of being human,
(04:22):
let alone just being something that is a strength we
can have.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh my gosh, seriously, I could just I'm just taking
all of that in because You've articulated some things that
I have been deeply trying to navigate in my own
life around thinking about where do I carry joy in
my body as a black fella, and what does it
look and feel like? It becomes this sort of spiritual
(04:47):
and political act intertwined. So, oh my god, you've already
got me really feeling all the feelsis But I want
to rewind the track. So you're you were born and
raised in Larachee Country, currently living at NAM and you
you mentioned I guess that you've always felt comfortable around
this notion of yet exploration of your body. I'm wondering
(05:08):
if you could tell me a little bit more about that.
What led to that comfortability? I mean, I'm sure you
would have, no doubt done some soul searching to think
about how that's come to be. But yeah, what's led
to you to sort of this path as well about sexology,
which it sounds why or that in twenty twenty four,
it still does feel taboo. I don't know if that's
(05:29):
the way that I have been raised where we didn't
have that comfortability, but yeah, curious to know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think most people, unfortunately, still have so much shame,
you know, linked into sex and pleasure and bodies and
sexuality and relationships that I think most people still find
this really hard to talk about. I think as a
young person, I was my curiosity just was way bigger
than my shame. And I think I had you know,
(05:56):
I have incredible family and everyone was really open. But
also it's not like my family we talked about sex,
relationships all that stuff all the time or anything like that.
I knew my family was accepting, and you know, I
had no fear of like having a coming out moment
or anything like that. But I definitely, you know, it
(06:18):
wasn't saying that it was discussed all the time, But
I was just curious. I just thought it was interesting.
I thought it was interesting how you know, some parts
of relationships were okay to talk about and others weren't.
And like, particularly as when you're a young person, you know,
adults always like to, you know, project things on young people, like,
(06:39):
you know, they ask or is that your boyfriend? Or
is that you're you know, and they'll they'll kind of
put on this idea of relationships it's always you know,
super heteronormative and kind of falls into all of that.
But I found it really fascinating that like that was
totally fine to talk about, but like masturbation you couldn't
really talk about. Or when I would talk to my
friends about them, it would be this thing of like, oh,
(07:01):
that's something that you know always do, but girls don't.
There was all this gendered stuff around it, and so
I think I was just really curious. I think I
just thought it was interesting and fascinating. And then it
wasn't Like it wasn't until I went to UNI and
I studied psychology in my undergrad And it wasn't really
until I was there meeting lots of other people, particularly
(07:24):
people who would grow like who had grown up in
rural regional spaces and who had really like no sex ed,
no information, and I kind of became a little bit
of the like sex advice person at my like UNI
res accommodation.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
The dolly doctor, the live well.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, exactly, kind of like the live version, but it
was just because I would talk about it, and I
had so many I had so many female friends at
the time who would come up to me, and not
even friends just like friends are friends who would be
like Lauren, you know, like you know, I'm not liking sex,
or I can't my partner can't give me an orgasm,
like what am I meant to do? And my first
(08:04):
question was always like, oh, well, how do you give
yourself an organism? Like what does pleasure look like? Solo?
And I would just be met with these blank faces
and this just like, oh, what are you talking about?
I don't explore my own pleasure? And I started to
really realize that, oh, for so many people, your pleasure
is linked to someone else's and it's all about that
(08:26):
other person, the audience or who you're trying to, you know,
like play to versus. Actually pleasure is something you have
a right in your own body.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah. Wow, oh my god, it's so fascinating. I'm so
grateful to hear that your curiosity in your household was
met with, you know, expansive ways to explore that and provide,
you know, some service to your schoolmates. But also just yeah,
that you were able to grow up in an environment
(08:56):
that fostered that acceptance of self and body and relationships
in that way. You're right, it's fascinating. I think we
do have this such socialization attached to our bodies, and
especially for black women particularly. You know, you think about
our bodies have been for the taking for so long,
(09:16):
they've been enslaved, they've been you know, subjected to abuse.
Think about how we view pornography and just other things
about a black women's body. It's like the biggest act
of reclamation is truly coming into your body. And it's
a process, isn't it to really come back to yourself
(09:39):
and to feel at home and safe and well in
our bodies. I think it would be an interesting conversation.
And I mean with that in mind, sis you know,
like when you think about the work that you do,
there's such a spectrum right from research and education to
conversations around you know, consent, pornography. Then there's this sort
(10:01):
of notion around intimacy, desirability connecting to our bodies relationships.
I wonder for the lay people out there who aren't
maybe familiar, I'm wondering if you could talk to me
about what is a sexologist and what are some of
the things that you do in your work in this
space to help us sort of understand this further.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, of course, now twenty twenty four, there are a
lot more sexologists out there, but you know, it's still
something most people have never heard of. My favorite way
to have this conversation is with like an uber driver,
because they'll, you know, when I'm working on conference or something,
and then they're like, oh, what do you do? And
I have to have that moment where like, do I
want to say what I do? Because inevitably, when you
say sexologist, someone here is sex worker and I kind
(10:47):
of get that commenttion so like you're a sex worker,
like you have like sex with people. I'm like, no,
that's not what I do. And there is no shame
towards any sex workers. We love sex workers. But this
is a space where I go, no, so this is
like therapy, This is like sex therapy. And then someone
inevitably goes, oh, so you're like the mum from sex education,
and I go yeah, but like, hopefully with a few
(11:07):
more boundaries, I'd like to think, yeah, but I've worked
really so I've worked in private practice as a sexologist,
and so I kind of specialized of helping people who
were dealing with sexual dysfunction and pain, particularly so things
like vaginismus and volverdinia. I worked with a lot of
(11:28):
couples that had issues around you know, sexual satisfaction desire.
But sexologists can also work with people who have things
like sexual trauma, issues with sexual confidence or sexual self esteem, pleasure,
you know, even things like fertility. Sexologies are really broad
(11:48):
space and so we can work clinically with people like
one and Moe, like in a therapeutic practice like a therapist,
or you can kind of have sexologists that do education.
And so a big part of the work I do
is I work with a nonprofit called Body Safety Australia
and we do education, so in schools, in communities where
we do things that are around you know, you know,
(12:11):
comprehensive sex positive sexuality education as well as relationships education
can sen you know, digital media literacy stuff particularly on
relationships and sex, and so there's an element of education
and even in a therapeutic space there's an element of education.
But I really love to get you know, like my
(12:32):
satisfaction I get with my work is being able to
see change in like a one on one space, like
with one person, and that's kind of where it happens
in therapy. But I also, you know, I'm a big
believer that education is how we make social change, and
so you know, I'm hoping that, you know, with every generation,
our sex ed gets better and our shame reduces. And
(12:54):
to do that, I kind of need to go and
talk to lots of people. So that's where that kind
of bigger education comes in.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Well, so fascinating to and that you know, it's such
a broad conversation and I hear you about that sort
of desire to be working on a one to one basis.
You really see that transformative change. But the power of
educating young people about this. You know, I'm going to
reveal something. I'm a nineties kid, So I grew up
(13:22):
in my teen years, was in the naughties, and I
think back to the sex education that we got and
as I mentioned before, with my family, we mum was
removed and a missionary, so grew up quite Christian, and
I think just also very just very timid and shy
and certainly not empowered and you know, in their bodies
(13:46):
or you know, or probably felt some sense of desire.
I think that they were. You know, Mum was a
single mom five kids. You know, your bodies is just
for everyone, you know in that way, And so I
think back to how undersophisticated our learnings were, and even
at home, I remember we never got the sex talk.
(14:07):
The only thing that Mum did was just gave us
a box of tampons and sort of made us work
it all out. So with that in mind, you know,
what sort of stuff in your line of work and
this notion of debunking the shame and the taboo, what
sort of things are you sort of seeing in working
with young people about this really important conversation, especially around
(14:29):
the intersectionality between consent pornography and male violence as well,
you know, which is a big conversation we're having as
a nation right now. What sort of stuff are you
seeing in your line of work?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
It's a huge conversation. And I think what I am
seeing more and more is how much young people actually
are so ahead of us, you know, the you know, twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen year olds I'm working with us have so much
more understanding of nuance around this stuff than I did
when I was also growing up in that lovely nineties
(15:02):
and naughties moment, and so young people are really good
at articulating what they want. And you know, a huge
thing I hear from them all the time is they
don't just want to be told what's wrong and bad.
And I think when we, you know, go into this,
it's really easy for adults to focus on deficit and
we do. And like this happens with MOB all the time,
(15:25):
which is we want to focus on deficits. So when
I I'm working with like, you know, a first nation's
community around this work, someone will go, oh, you're making
sure you're talking about you know, contraception and STIs and
you know, making sure we're not all team parents. And
I'm like, okay, well that's one way to think. That's
a real deficit way. That's you thinking that our mob
(15:47):
always has a problem, versus going in and actually saying, yeah,
let's talk about what kind of relationships we do want.
Where are the examples of really healthy, positive relationships that
we get to see versus media that you know, maybe
isn't showing us that representation. You know, what does it
look like to have you know, a consensual sexual experience
(16:10):
young people always tell me they understand consent because you know,
they get it really drilled into them a lot now,
which is great. But what they'll tell me is, but Lauren, like,
how do I have fun sexual experience or like a
pleasurable sexual ascience. How he's enjoying themselves, not just trying
to focus on what we don't want to harm someone?
And I think when with young people and always focus
(16:32):
on is harm, we're not creating any opportunities for them
to actually have a yarn about what's good and it means,
like sex relationships, it's all done through a harm deficit
lens versus actually, let's talk about strength.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Wow, God, it's so fascinating. So I guess what I'm
hearing is that, yeah, young people are sort of thirsty
for this more sophisticated understanding and having the courage to
have these conversations and wanting to learn about it. But
it's fascinating to hear that, Yeah, for our mob, it's
still being put as a deficit, and it's really important
(17:13):
and deadly to hear that you are sort of having
this conversation about viewing our bodies as strength considering all
of what our bodies have endured and that our bodies
should be celebrated as well. So wow, it's so fascinating,
so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And I think for us as adults, like I think
as well, like we have to do so much unlearning,
you know, and unlearning those kind of narratives or stories
that have been given to us about our bodies. You know,
I think for so many of us, we talk, you know,
we talk so much about walking between two worlds. But
I you know, I think when we talk about pleasure
(17:53):
and bodies, it goes beyond that to this idea that
our bodies have been labeled by others and as things.
You know, our body is a signal of a problem,
or our body is showing either how well colonization was
or how you know, or if it didn't work out
very well. You know, our skin is commented on color,
(18:13):
you know, you know, all of these sort of things
versus even you know again, and it's all very deficit
versus you know, when I look at my body and
my you know, skin on my face, and you know,
I see my family, I see my mob, I see
my Aunie's I see you know, I get to see
that in myself, and that's a strength but for a
(18:35):
very long time when I was growing up, you know,
and even still, I think identity is something we all
have to you know, be on our own journey with.
And you know, while you know my representation of my mob,
you know, when you're young, I think you I think
we're really hard on it. We're really hard on our
body and ourself and our image and what it represents.
(18:57):
And you know, there's always a thing.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
We want it to be. And I think this sort
of really underscores the importance of having these conversations with
young people so early, because you know, we've all experienced
or will continue to experience, that feeling of not feeling
desirable enough, loved enough, wanted enough, safe enough. You know,
(19:20):
sometimes when we work with clients from a burnout and
trauma perspective about even coming back to our bodies and
how that is as a process, like I guess in
and of itself. And so you know, we can see
why this conversation is just so important and just so needed,
(19:40):
and you know, working with both young people but also
just all people around, like you say, debunking this shamee.
You mentioned something before, and I want to pick it
up around you know, a lot of this is it
is around how you've grown up, which is, you know,
through your family and being open and that except and
(20:05):
you know that you've always had this curiosity and ability
to maybe experience pleasure. I wonder if thinking about your
experience and thinking about say, my experience, you know, does
the way that you talk about sex change when it
comes to dealing with mob or is that a really
is that also a very deficit way to look at it?
(20:26):
You know, I guess what I'm saying is, do you
approach this topic from a really holistic perspective for mob,
because yeah, we've also got a different sort of experience
in the colonies.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, I think, yeah, it's I completely understand what you're
asking because in a way to go, oh, I have
a completely different way of working with mob than I
do with white fellas. It's like inherently othering. It's very
othering because actually I work with people. But in saying that,
I also don't just work with people. I work with
people who have had you know, racism placed on them,
(21:00):
or who again have lived through colonization and continue to
live through colonization. And I work with people who've experienced
violent and I think, how you approach any of those
individuals looks really different. And to me, how how I
work with MOB is about creating a safe space, like
that's the most important thing. And for MOB, there is
(21:22):
you know, there are particular ways we do that, and
you know, it is about how you create a culturally
safe space. And sometimes that is as simple as me,
you know, even just acknowledging that I'm not going to
judge someone when they tell me about their family and
their family story, when they tell me about, you know,
the trauma that their family has experienced, I can go, yeah,
(21:43):
my family's experienced like, you know, the same trauma. And
just even that knowing of I know what they're talking about,
I'm not going to judge them or ask them to
try and you know, carry the burden of explaining to
me colonial violence, like even just me being to go, yeah, yeah,
I know what that is, I know what that feels like.
That's a lived experience and knowledge I have, and so
(22:05):
that can help me create a bit of a safe
space to have that, you know, this kind of a yarn.
And then I think, as well, you know, making sure
I'm not jumping into seeing things as a problem, because
like I've grown up in the colony, like I've grown
up with this idea. You know, teen pregnancy is bad
and having all these kids is bad. And you know,
(22:28):
we get taught really sex negative ideas and a lot
of those are actually quite counted what can be completely
culturally appropriate at times as well, And so you know,
me reminding myself that, hey, like I, you know, I
have biased because I've grown up in a colony that
has bias and calling it out so that the person
I'm yearning with goes, oh yeah, okay, Like like this
(22:51):
person will get it. They'll understand or at least they're
not going to judge me on how I talk or
how I word something or maybe what my needs are.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, gosh, it's like that. It's just that power of
lived experience and validation and that knowing, isn't it Sometimes
that that's why black therapists and counselors and psychologists and
sexologists are just so important for us as part of
this reclamation, to have that space where we feel that
(23:24):
they know what we're experiencing. Yeah, will be back you
mob right after this short break. I want to also
(23:48):
just sort of circle back from something you mentioned before
around you know, experiencing pleasure. And I recognize that this
is not to give anyone any advice outside of their
general mental health care plan or any other treatment that
they're seeing. But you know, for anyone, is there any
tips or suggestions or ways that we can cultivate more
(24:13):
awareness of when we're experiencing joy and pleasure in our bodies?
I know that, as I mentioned at the top of
the show, a big part of my healing journey over
the last fifteen twenty years has been to really learn
ways to come back to my body. It was sort
of the last step. I was such an able to
(24:34):
intellectualize how I was feeling and to think about it,
but not to experience it. And as somebody who's gone
on this journey myself, I know that it's been such
a practice to really accept my body for what it
is the fact that it's this sacred beating reminder of
my ancestors. As someone who lives with chronic illness, it's
(24:57):
been this process of reacquainting back to my body. But yeah,
I'm curious, you know, are there any ways that we
can cultivate more Yeah, more appreciation for our bodies?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Oh, definitely, I think I you know, I've been told
before this might sound radical, but I don't think in
this environment anyone's going to think it is. But like pleasure, sex, pleasure,
you know, our bodies, there's a Western mentality that's very
goal orientated. It's like there is success and failures, and
there are goals, and like with pleasure, the goal is
(25:33):
like an orgasm, for example, like to get super simple
and so people go, oh, okay, then if I'm doing
something with pleasure, it should end with an orgasm, and
an orgasm is an end. And it's very linear. It's
like point A to B and pleasure can become transactional.
Now to me, that's a real Western lens. And for
(25:54):
most us we are relational people. We are about building relationships,
and I think people you know, for us, we need
to think about what's the relationship you have withsure and
your body, and where is the space to explore that relationship.
You know, it's not just about hey, I need to
meet this goal, I need to hit this mark, I
need to tick this box. Because my word, that sounds
(26:17):
like some corporate jug and that has no no, no
space to be anywhere near anyone's body. So like, how
do we actually go well, how to explore myself, what
gives me pleasure, what gives me insane, toe curling, incredible
sexual pleasure, and then what gives me like joyful pleasure,
what gives my body comfort in pleasure? Like you know,
(26:39):
it can be about exploring something erotic or sensual, or
like take a minute when you change your sheets next
time to explore how much pleasure it gives your body
to like lie in them for the first time, and
something as little as bad giving yourself permission to create,
you know, to have a yarn about pleasure with yourself.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, well I love that. What is the relationship you
have with pleasure and where do you find space to
cultivate it? And I love it. This is why I
love having black butlers on this show Yarning Up to God,
because it's like this notion of we've had to go
to university learn a Western way and then completely decolonize
it and re unravel and unthink it. Because this notion
(27:25):
that pleasure there is no endpoint and it's nonlinear is
of course it makes so much sense. But you're right,
everything in a Western paradigm is about you know, quick
efficient end binaries, and so yeah, it's really it's really
it's a really fascinating conversation. You know, I guess with
(27:48):
that in mind. You know, for me personally, it's been
a journey to sort of differentiate certain feelings when it
comes to this, you so sort of lump and when
we talk about things like pleasure and intimacy, but also
joy well like black joy. And as I mentioned, I've
really been thinking about this question about when do I
(28:09):
notice when I feel joy and pleasure in my body?
And because I think over the last eleven months, with
what's been happening over the world, you know, we have
to be in a space where our joy and our
fear and our sadness can all coexist. Because when we
have these pleasurable moments or joyful moments, they give us
(28:30):
they expand our capacity to be able to you know,
get through things. So it's such an important part of
our toolkit. You know, I wonder with that, you know,
how do you get into your body? What person or
practice or things sort of light you up? And you know,
do you find yourself moving and dancing or just being
aware of your body and taking up that space? You know,
(28:52):
what are the things that yeah light you up?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah? No, I love this and I completely. Like before
I talk about what lights me up. You know, I
think the last eleven months as show us how much
we need joy and pleasure because I think we are
in such a globally connected time in the world, which
is amazing because it means we are more educated, we
are more involved, we are more intense with our advocacy
(29:17):
and more of our incredible advocates. But I also think
it means, because we're so connected, we feel guilt if
we take a minute for pleasure or joy, Like there
is such like we have such shame, you know, like
we put shame on ourselves for going. Oh, I should
be you know, if someone is suffering, I should be,
you know, spending twenty four to seven trying to fix
(29:38):
it when actually all that's going to do is burn
you out and then you are not actually going to
be helpful for anyone. And so I think people need
to also reframe it as pleasure is part of being
an advocate and part of having advocism, because you know,
if you don't have that, then your time, you know,
being able to show up is going to be really short.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, gosh, oh my god, that's such an important yard.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And also I'm not a mystic or like, you know,
like I'm not you know, amazing at it as well,
because I fall into traps of burning myself out with
work or with activism or you know, with all these
sort of things, and I have to remind myself to
find joy and to me pleasure and joy is also
about being playful, and so that's kind of where I
(30:28):
found at the moment.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
So I I am my big issue is when I
find something I like and that gives me joy and pleasure,
I'm such a like, oh do I need to like
make a new career out of this thing, or do
I need to like do it to like a professional level.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
And I was a professional dancer for many years, and
so dance gives me such joy. But I really struggle
not to be like, oh, well, if I do it,
I need to do it one hundred and ten percent,
and you know, throw my whole entire being into something,
which like, come on, we don't know what has time
for all of the things I had to find like
(31:05):
the other ways of giving myself joy and pleasure, And
a big one for me at the moment actually is
I've got my partner has gotten me kind of into
swimming and I've never been like a swimmer. I grew
up in Darwin. Water is danger not, it's not, it's
not how that worked. But like going to the pool
(31:26):
and I was, like, I thought doing laps and that
sort of thing was going to be the most boring
thing in the world. But I'm actually enjoying it. But
what I love is that we do our like you know,
we're adults, and you know, we're trying to take care
of our body and our health and our well being,
and so we do our swimming. But then we will
play mermaids, and we will do handstands, and we will
do like slip, I will do like silly ballet dancing
(31:51):
in the pool, and we'll use the diving board. And
like I think, as adults, there are so few opportunities
for us to be playful that I'm really feeling the
joy of that at the moment. And there's something so
pleasurable about Actually, you know, I'm almost thirty and I'm
doing handstands and being a mermaid and like a turtle
(32:11):
in the water. Yeah, giving myself to freedom and permission
to just like do whatever feels great.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yes, yes, slay to that. Oh my god, The freedom
to be so liberated in your own body that you can, yeah,
do some somersaults and cartwheels and just to be so free,
you know, and even like you know, just watching someone
like combust in a belly laughter and let loose and
(32:41):
has had that moment of just abyss into like complete
freedom and letting go. I think it's what it is.
It's like that letting go of something. And you know,
there's a few things you said. Their first thing is,
you know, thank you for sharing ways that you experience
joy in your body and you know, through dancing and swimming,
and I think also just sharing your honesty about that
whole thing which many of us experience, which is we
(33:04):
all have a proximity to, you know, the colonial mindset.
We're all unlearning. So thank you for reminding us of that,
because this idea that we have to be good at
things is another you know, very colonial white supremacy trait,
but just to do things for pure enjoyment and awe
and wonder. I think the other thing you mentioned before,
(33:27):
which I think is such a big important conversation, is
around this notion of black fellows having guilt when we
experience joy and pleasure. And I fully I think there's
a whole like research slash, you know, resources that should
be provided in thinking about this, because you're right, you know,
we live in it in such sometimes dysfunction of such
(33:49):
sadness and sorrow and sorry business and activism and fight
or flight, that when we do experience joy, we do
feel that that pang of guilts and should I be
sharing it or you know, I'd be celebrating this. It's
so interesting because it's so counter to how we view
a lot of things, where such circle holistic people, but
(34:10):
we all fall into these binary colonial traps in our
own minds to say that we have to be this
or that and we can't have a space in our
lives where these things coexist. You know, even in the
most darkest moments of my grief and loss, I've had
these moments where I've like wanted to be laughing and silly,
and I've felt such a guilty even to feel another emotion.
(34:32):
And so I think it's just a really important conversation
to have around our emotions can coexist and where all
of these things can sit in the same bucket at
the same day, and that we the ultimate act and
the biggest fuck you to the colony is a happy
black fellow, you know, and you're yeah, you're just smiling
up walking down the street. Everyone's going to be very
(34:54):
unsettled about your legitimacy as a black fellow, and you've
been happy as so. You know, I think it's so
important yard to have.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I think, yeah, and I yeah, exactly. I think there's
such power in us, you know, carving out space for
ourselves to because we talk about being you know, like
loud and proud a lot. We talk about, you know,
moving away from that like angry black woman narrative, but
I think we are being you know, angry as black women.
It's like, yeah, I can be just as loud when
I'm angry as when I am joyful. And you know,
(35:26):
our body is really good at, you know, allowing space
for emotions to come in and out.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, that's such an important point.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
We judge ourselves really harshly on how our body experiences
things like whether that's sexual pleasure, whether it's arousal, whether
it's desire, as well as when we are sad or happy,
or frustrated or angry or you know, in grief.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, just such a reminder that all of our emotions
are so contrived of how they should look and feel,
and that's why, you know, just to feel them in
your authentic way. And I notice this sort of brings
an important question to mine around I guess the connection
between sexual intimacy and connected being connected to our body
(36:14):
and our overall emotional health and wellbeing. You know, how
important do you think it is for us to feel
intimate and desired and wanted and all of those things?
I know, for me personally, my love language is touch
and words of affirmation a bit. With my partner for
thirteen years. He's a gifts and acts guy, so we've
(36:34):
had to learn to communicate. But I need affection to survive.
It's like I'm like a catteror dog or something. I
just need to feel connected on this really spiritual, cosmic level.
I'm just yeah, And so I wonder, you know, how
important is this conversation around intimacy and desirability for our
(36:54):
overall wellbeing?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Really great point, and I think I want to like
go open up and come specific because I think overall
this can be hugely important for so many people. I
acknowledge that there are so many people who are you know,
asexual or a romantic and who you know, sex and
that kind of physical intancy is not an important part
(37:19):
of their lives. And like that that's also completely valid.
And I think, you know, I don't want anyone to
feel like we need to that someone needs to be
hyper sexual or like you know, like performative in their
erotic self in a way that doesn't feel authentic from
a general perspective. But I think a lot of people,
you know, we've created or not even we have been
(37:41):
given a narrative that sex is you know, we either
have to be like shameful about it or we should
be the best lovers in the world, and like we
should know exactly what we're doing, but we should never
have to talk about it or ask questions and it
should come natural and if it doesn't come natural, then
something's wrong. And there's like so many layers to it.
(38:03):
And so I think, you know, how we create that
like space for ourselves is really important because you know,
it is vital just as much as I you know,
I'm a big believer when we talk if you look
into like you know, World Health Organization or these sort
of spaces when they talk about sexual health. We have
moved so far past the idea that sexual health is
(38:25):
just the absence of disease or the absence problem, like
we should be striving for so much more. We should
be striving for sex that is, you know, intimate and
satisfying and gives us what we need because some people,
you know, and everyone will have different needs around that.
But I don't think a lot of people ever ask
(38:46):
themselves what that need is, or give themselves the time
to actually ask themselves, you know, what does my body
want do? What does my mind erotically want? What do
I want with my partner? Or what do I want
in my casual relationships? What do I want? You know,
when I'm exploring my own body? And have I ever
actually asked myself that? Because that's a really vulnerable thing
(39:08):
to ask yourself, because you might open yourself up to
realizing that what you have currently is not enough or
it's not meeting your need, or you might actually just
have a blank canvas and your body is telling you
I don't know what I need. Yeah, And I think
that's really scary when we ask ourselves what do we
need and our body has no answer. But to me,
(39:30):
all that means is, oh, okay, we haven't experienced it yet.
So we need to explore, We need to create space
to try things, and you know, in safe ways, try
things so that our body can work out what it wants.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Gosh, oh, sis, I could seriously listen to you all day.
But you know what a beautiful reminder that, yeah, there
is no one size fits all about what it means
to feel connected to ourselves. And I think this is
why this is important. This is such a conversation around
relationality and the relationships we have with ourselves and others.
(40:07):
But again, what a strong, beautiful reminder and circling back
to earlier question around you know, if you are you know,
not feeling as connected or at home, maybe those questions
you might like to ask yourself, you know, what is
my relationship with pleasure? When do I experience it? And
you know, where do I create some more space to
tune in for what pleasure looks and feels like for
(40:28):
me because it is so unique and look so different
for everyone. And yeah, like you know, giving yourself permission
to like go on some self discovery as well, and
to have the courage to do so, I think as well,
because like you say, we're all learning about what it
means to feel strong and confident and safe and empowered
(40:51):
in our bodies.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And I just want to call out for people because
I think we, particularly women like you know, women across
the board, you know, Black women, particularly because we are
such like we often find ourselves in posions where we
are caring for others, where we are looking after others.
And you know, we're getting so much better at talking
about you know, quote unquote self care, which I do
(41:12):
find self care a very like Western idea anyway, but
like we are getting much better at talking about you know,
filling our own cups and you know, being aware of
what burnout looks like and doing that. But when things
get busy, when we get stressed, when you know, when
things are hectic, often pleasure is the first thing that
gets thrown out because we assume we don't have time
(41:36):
for it or space for it, or you know, what's
the point if I'm not ticking it off the box
kind of thing, and in doing that as pleasure being
the first thing that gets removed, Pleasure is the thing
that's going to keep us going.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, one hundred percent. It is the thing that keeps
us so expansive and open to new new ideas and newness.
I think. I think that's a really really great point.
And you know, with that in mind, I don't know
what your thoughts are on this, but you know, for
anyone who might be feeling that pleasure feels too strong
of a word, or we might not be there. You know,
(42:14):
maybe it's about thinking about when do I experience that
sense of fun and that lightness or like we were
talking about before, that sort of sense of going back
to our childlike states and just that fun. You know,
I've been thinking about this a lot. When I'm in
my joy, I just feel lighter, I feel more at ease,
(42:34):
I feel a warmth in my body. I feel I'm
more present, I feel I'm more curious. I feel I'm
more engaged. You know. It sort of can run parallel
to so many other ways that I show up within
myself and with my people and with my relationships, and
so yeah, I've really had to prioritize it, like and
(42:57):
also practice it, practice joy in fun because it does
feel you do feel a bit shame or a bit like,
I don't know, like you've got to be good at
it or that, you know, what's the point I need
to be doing things? But you know, just sort of
finding ways to practice just fun is important.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
So we have such a fear of failure, and like
this failure word is so intense and it is such
an idea of the colony when it's like it's not
about pass or fail succeed and this like it's not binary,
Like you're doing something, you're connecting with something, whether it's yourself,
(43:34):
whether it's country, whether it's mob, whether it's you know,
just a fun feeling. And I think that that fear
of failure is what leads us to that need to
be perfect. And it's like I had this the other
day when I was at my gathering space and having
a yarn and you know, when of my uncles started
painting and I hadn't painted in I don't even know
(43:57):
how long, and I was like, you know what, I'm
just I'm just gonna I'm just gonna do some and
I'm not I'm going to really try. And it was hard,
I want to call out. It was really hard to
not go, Okay, well, I'm painting something for a purpose
or it needs to mean a certain thing, or I
need to go in with an intention. I literally just
picked up a you know, astick and started painting and
(44:17):
just kind of let it be whatever it was. And
then what you know, since then, I've also tried to
not let my brain spiral into that. Well, now, if
you're going to do painting, you know, you've got to
do it this way and this is the right way,
and you've got to make a habit and you've got
to create a practice. And it's like, actually, what I
wanted in that moment paint because it was making me
feel connected to mob and like that feeling was what
(44:40):
was giving me joy. And of course I can paint again,
but like, I don't need to feel like I need
to make it look the way. You know, we feel
like we sometimes need to show up in white spaces.
I don't need to prove to anyone that I'm doing
something to better myself or to better something. I'm doing
it because I want to do it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
And you're so right. Not everything has to be performance
or for the gays. Some things are sacred just for ourselves,
And you know, I think that's it's a sacred act,
you know, just to to choose the things that you
that you want to do without having to Yeah, like
you say, over complicated or being seven layers deep, yeah,
I think it's just for me. Taking away from this
(45:23):
is just a reminder to give ourselves permission to, yeah,
check in with what our needs and wants and desires are,
and that our that we're worthy of the time and
attention to ask ourselves what do we want? You know,
when do we feel connected? And just that we all
have permission to, yeah, experience all of all of life
(45:45):
and all of the emotions including joy and pleasure and desire.
So yeah, certainly given me a lot to think about sis.
I mean, where can people I know that you're you,
I know that you're heading up education a Body Safety Victoria,
and I know you've just done or you are doing
your churchhill, But yeah, where can people come and connect
(46:06):
to some of the work you're doing. Are you able
to share some of the things that you've got in
the pipeline for anyone who, like me, is just so
interested in learning more from you?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, yeah, of course. Well look I'm always up for
a yana a chat, so everyone please feel free to
reach out. Yet, so for education, I'm the head of
education with Body Safety Australia. You can reach me on
like Instagram is probably one of the easiest ways to
reach out to me. So I'm Lauren French sexologist on Instagram.
(46:38):
I'm not seeing clients in private practice at the moment
because yes, as you said, I've just returned from completing
the travel portion of my Churchill fellowship. My fellowship was
specifically looking at indigenous elder guided practice around community healing
and repair, specifically after youth sexual violence. So I've been
(47:01):
like deep diving on like indigenous ways of learning and
like doing research that is actually for mob and not
just you know, for an academic lens in a western way.
And so I have a report on my fellowship coming
out soon. Don't ask me the actual date. I do
not know yet, but like once that is out there,
(47:23):
we'll be able to read that. And so yeah, so
if people want to have a yarm with me about
the work, the education work, go to Body Safety Australia.
If you want to have a yarm with me about
being a sexologist or that work that I do, Instagram
probably the best place. And basically just everyone look out
for my report because I'd really love it if someone
other than me and my mum read it, so like
(47:45):
that would be really great.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
At Wow Wow, we will be sure to put all
of your details in our show notes about where to
connect to Body Safety Australia and over Instagram. But I
just want to say thank you so so much. You've
really given me a lot to think about. You know,
it's been really fascinating to learn about. Yeah, where you
started with your family as a curious young person black
(48:09):
fellow in Northern Territory and where you've gone on around
the world to have these conversations across you know, the globe.
So you know, just want to say thank you for
this hard yaka that you're doing, and thanks for giving
me a lot to think about as well on my
journey into coming back and reclaiming my body and thinking
about pleasure and pleasure activism.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Love that for you know, thank you so much for
having me and I hope this will be helpful for
everyone listening, and like for anyone listening, you know, don't
feel like you need to take a huge step around
this space either, like little things, find a little thing
that brings you pleasure and joy and yeah, like you know,
just I think if we can all give ourselves permission
to prioritize pleasure for it to actually be a thing,
(48:52):
we're allowed to prioritize in our day, or our week,
or our month or our year. Then I think that's
a hugely, you know, powerful piece of activism.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I'm just gonna leave it on that note because that
is such an important, beautiful thing to sort of remind
us as we as we close out the show. Thank
you again, my cis. I really appreciate your time today.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Thanks Everyoneesday Deadly, Thank you so much for listening you mob.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
If you are vibing this season of yearning up, then
please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts from to show us love, rate, and review. Alternatively,
you can get in contact and give us some feedback
by visiting www. Dot carolinecow dot com dot ahu
Podcast Unite our Voices. This podcast is brought to you
by on Track Studio. Welcome to Yannier, the podcast that
showcases First Nations stories and conversations to help us learn
(00:25):
and unlearn Australia's history to work towards a better future.
I'm your host, proud barber woman and founder of Black
Wattel Coaching and Consulting, Caroline cow. We acknowledge the rundery
people and elders where this podcast is taped, but we
(00:47):
also acknowledge the lands that you are listening in from today.
It always was and always will be unseated aboriginal and
tourist Red Islander Land well as someone who has been
on a huge healing journey and particularly I guess connecting
or finding ways to connect back to my own body.
(01:10):
I'm really excited about today's conversation with a really special
sister who is leading the way in how we think
about sex education, especially for young people and for our
moms and for queer folks. And I'm just so excited
to have you here today. Lauren French, sex educator and sexologist.
Welcome to Yarning Up.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh, thanks thanks for having me. It's so like deadly
to be here and having a chat, and I I
always love a good yarn.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, thank you, Sis. I'm so grateful you here. I
just I'm a huge fan of the work you're doing,
because no one is really out here talking about what
it means for our mob to feel, you know, sex confident,
understand things like consent and just how we feel our
most deadly self in our bodies. So I'm just so
(02:00):
grateful for you to be here, Sis, So thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Of course I would not want to be anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, let's dive right in. I mean, you have a
huge repertoire of things that you have done and passions
and things you've sort of poured into this world around
sex education and around supporting Aboriginal families and children to
understand safety and empowerment and their rights. But I want
(02:28):
to ask you just off the top, you know, how
would you firstly describe yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, I always love a good intro. So I am.
I am a proud codairy woman. I am a proud
bisexual woman. I'm a proud sexologist, an educator, and change maker.
My pronouns are she Her. I live in beautiful numb
(02:54):
but I'm from Larakia country up in Darwin, that's where
most of my mob live currently. And I am just
someone who has always been comfortable talking about things that
made other people uncomfortable. Like I was that kid in
puberty class that was so excited to talk about like
periods and bodies and sex, and I was like, Oh,
(03:16):
this is so fascinating, and I never you know, it
took me a really long time to understand why other
people found it so difficult to talk about. So I'm
just someone who's always been comfortable having these conversations, have
in these yarns. And I really believe that, you know,
everyone has a right to pleasure, has a right to
(03:38):
you know, sexual pleasure, whether it's solo sexual pleasure, whether
it's safe sexual pleasure with partners. I think we have
a right to educate ourselves around our body and the
kind of sexual experience we want. And I think it's like,
in a way, deadly activism to actually embrace pleasure, because
I think so many colonial structures and Western institutions see
(04:00):
pleasure as you know, hedonistic or selfish or you know,
it's put in all a real deficit shame. Oh, they
love to put shame on us. And so I think
there's something really, you know it is it is a stand.
It is a you know, it's it's us taking a
stand we say no. Pleasure is part of being human,
(04:22):
let alone just being something that is a strength we
can have.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh my gosh, seriously, I could just I'm just taking
all of that in because You've articulated some things that
I have been deeply trying to navigate in my own
life around thinking about where do I carry joy in
my body as a black fella, and what does it
look and feel like? It becomes this sort of spiritual
(04:47):
and political act intertwined. So, oh my god, you've already
got me really feeling all the feelsis But I want
to rewind the track. So you're you were born and
raised in Larachee Country, currently living at NAM and you
you mentioned I guess that you've always felt comfortable around
this notion of yet exploration of your body. I'm wondering
(05:08):
if you could tell me a little bit more about that.
What led to that comfortability? I mean, I'm sure you
would have, no doubt done some soul searching to think
about how that's come to be. But yeah, what's led
to you to sort of this path as well about sexology,
which it sounds why or that in twenty twenty four,
it still does feel taboo. I don't know if that's
(05:29):
the way that I have been raised where we didn't
have that comfortability, but yeah, curious to know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think most people, unfortunately, still have so much shame,
you know, linked into sex and pleasure and bodies and
sexuality and relationships that I think most people still find
this really hard to talk about. I think as a
young person, I was my curiosity just was way bigger
than my shame. And I think I had you know,
(05:56):
I have incredible family and everyone was really open. But
also it's not like my family we talked about sex,
relationships all that stuff all the time or anything like that.
I knew my family was accepting, and you know, I
had no fear of like having a coming out moment
or anything like that. But I definitely, you know, it
(06:18):
wasn't saying that it was discussed all the time, But
I was just curious. I just thought it was interesting.
I thought it was interesting how you know, some parts
of relationships were okay to talk about and others weren't.
And like, particularly as when you're a young person, you know,
adults always like to, you know, project things on young people, like,
(06:39):
you know, they ask or is that your boyfriend? Or
is that you're you know, and they'll they'll kind of
put on this idea of relationships it's always you know,
super heteronormative and kind of falls into all of that.
But I found it really fascinating that like that was
totally fine to talk about, but like masturbation you couldn't
really talk about. Or when I would talk to my
friends about them, it would be this thing of like, oh,
(07:01):
that's something that you know always do, but girls don't.
There was all this gendered stuff around it, and so
I think I was just really curious. I think I
just thought it was interesting and fascinating. And then it
wasn't Like it wasn't until I went to UNI and
I studied psychology in my undergrad And it wasn't really
until I was there meeting lots of other people, particularly
(07:24):
people who would grow like who had grown up in
rural regional spaces and who had really like no sex ed,
no information, and I kind of became a little bit
of the like sex advice person at my like UNI
res accommodation.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
The dolly doctor, the live well.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, exactly, kind of like the live version, but it
was just because I would talk about it, and I
had so many I had so many female friends at
the time who would come up to me, and not
even friends just like friends are friends who would be
like Lauren, you know, like you know, I'm not liking sex,
or I can't my partner can't give me an orgasm,
like what am I meant to do? And my first
(08:04):
question was always like, oh, well, how do you give
yourself an organism? Like what does pleasure look like? Solo?
And I would just be met with these blank faces
and this just like, oh, what are you talking about?
I don't explore my own pleasure? And I started to
really realize that, oh, for so many people, your pleasure
is linked to someone else's and it's all about that
(08:26):
other person, the audience or who you're trying to, you know,
like play to versus. Actually pleasure is something you have
a right in your own body.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah. Wow, oh my god, it's so fascinating. I'm so
grateful to hear that your curiosity in your household was
met with, you know, expansive ways to explore that and provide,
you know, some service to your schoolmates. But also just yeah,
that you were able to grow up in an environment
(08:56):
that fostered that acceptance of self and body and relationships
in that way. You're right, it's fascinating. I think we
do have this such socialization attached to our bodies, and
especially for black women particularly. You know, you think about
our bodies have been for the taking for so long,
(09:16):
they've been enslaved, they've been you know, subjected to abuse.
Think about how we view pornography and just other things
about a black women's body. It's like the biggest act
of reclamation is truly coming into your body. And it's
a process, isn't it to really come back to yourself
(09:39):
and to feel at home and safe and well in
our bodies. I think it would be an interesting conversation.
And I mean with that in mind, sis you know,
like when you think about the work that you do,
there's such a spectrum right from research and education to
conversations around you know, consent, pornography. Then there's this sort
(10:01):
of notion around intimacy, desirability connecting to our bodies relationships.
I wonder for the lay people out there who aren't
maybe familiar, I'm wondering if you could talk to me
about what is a sexologist and what are some of
the things that you do in your work in this
space to help us sort of understand this further.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, of course, now twenty twenty four, there are a
lot more sexologists out there, but you know, it's still
something most people have never heard of. My favorite way
to have this conversation is with like an uber driver,
because they'll, you know, when I'm working on conference or something,
and then they're like, oh, what do you do? And
I have to have that moment where like, do I
want to say what I do? Because inevitably, when you
say sexologist, someone here is sex worker and I kind
(10:47):
of get that commenttion so like you're a sex worker,
like you have like sex with people. I'm like, no,
that's not what I do. And there is no shame
towards any sex workers. We love sex workers. But this
is a space where I go, no, so this is
like therapy, This is like sex therapy. And then someone
inevitably goes, oh, so you're like the mum from sex education,
and I go yeah, but like, hopefully with a few
(11:07):
more boundaries, I'd like to think, yeah, but I've worked
really so I've worked in private practice as a sexologist,
and so I kind of specialized of helping people who
were dealing with sexual dysfunction and pain, particularly so things
like vaginismus and volverdinia. I worked with a lot of
(11:28):
couples that had issues around you know, sexual satisfaction desire.
But sexologists can also work with people who have things
like sexual trauma, issues with sexual confidence or sexual self esteem, pleasure,
you know, even things like fertility. Sexologies are really broad
(11:48):
space and so we can work clinically with people like
one and Moe, like in a therapeutic practice like a therapist,
or you can kind of have sexologists that do education.
And so a big part of the work I do
is I work with a nonprofit called Body Safety Australia
and we do education, so in schools, in communities where
we do things that are around you know, you know,
(12:11):
comprehensive sex positive sexuality education as well as relationships education
can sen you know, digital media literacy stuff particularly on
relationships and sex, and so there's an element of education
and even in a therapeutic space there's an element of education.
But I really love to get you know, like my
(12:32):
satisfaction I get with my work is being able to
see change in like a one on one space, like
with one person, and that's kind of where it happens
in therapy. But I also, you know, I'm a big
believer that education is how we make social change, and
so you know, I'm hoping that, you know, with every generation,
our sex ed gets better and our shame reduces. And
(12:54):
to do that, I kind of need to go and
talk to lots of people. So that's where that kind
of bigger education comes in.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Well, so fascinating to and that you know, it's such
a broad conversation and I hear you about that sort
of desire to be working on a one to one basis.
You really see that transformative change. But the power of
educating young people about this. You know, I'm going to
reveal something. I'm a nineties kid, So I grew up
(13:22):
in my teen years, was in the naughties, and I
think back to the sex education that we got and
as I mentioned before, with my family, we mum was
removed and a missionary, so grew up quite Christian, and
I think just also very just very timid and shy
and certainly not empowered and you know, in their bodies
(13:46):
or you know, or probably felt some sense of desire.
I think that they were. You know, Mum was a
single mom five kids. You know, your bodies is just
for everyone, you know in that way, And so I
think back to how undersophisticated our learnings were, and even
at home, I remember we never got the sex talk.
(14:07):
The only thing that Mum did was just gave us
a box of tampons and sort of made us work
it all out. So with that in mind, you know,
what sort of stuff in your line of work and
this notion of debunking the shame and the taboo, what
sort of things are you sort of seeing in working
with young people about this really important conversation, especially around
(14:29):
the intersectionality between consent pornography and male violence as well,
you know, which is a big conversation we're having as
a nation right now. What sort of stuff are you
seeing in your line of work?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
It's a huge conversation. And I think what I am
seeing more and more is how much young people actually
are so ahead of us, you know, the you know, twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen year olds I'm working with us have so much
more understanding of nuance around this stuff than I did
when I was also growing up in that lovely nineties
(15:02):
and naughties moment, and so young people are really good
at articulating what they want. And you know, a huge
thing I hear from them all the time is they
don't just want to be told what's wrong and bad.
And I think when we, you know, go into this,
it's really easy for adults to focus on deficit and
we do. And like this happens with MOB all the time,
(15:25):
which is we want to focus on deficits. So when
I I'm working with like, you know, a first nation's
community around this work, someone will go, oh, you're making
sure you're talking about you know, contraception and STIs and
you know, making sure we're not all team parents. And
I'm like, okay, well that's one way to think. That's
a real deficit way. That's you thinking that our mob
(15:47):
always has a problem, versus going in and actually saying, yeah,
let's talk about what kind of relationships we do want.
Where are the examples of really healthy, positive relationships that
we get to see versus media that you know, maybe
isn't showing us that representation. You know, what does it
look like to have you know, a consensual sexual experience
(16:10):
young people always tell me they understand consent because you know,
they get it really drilled into them a lot now,
which is great. But what they'll tell me is, but Lauren, like,
how do I have fun sexual experience or like a
pleasurable sexual ascience. How he's enjoying themselves, not just trying
to focus on what we don't want to harm someone?
And I think when with young people and always focus
(16:32):
on is harm, we're not creating any opportunities for them
to actually have a yarn about what's good and it means,
like sex relationships, it's all done through a harm deficit
lens versus actually, let's talk about strength.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Wow, God, it's so fascinating. So I guess what I'm
hearing is that, yeah, young people are sort of thirsty
for this more sophisticated understanding and having the courage to
have these conversations and wanting to learn about it. But
it's fascinating to hear that, Yeah, for our mob, it's
still being put as a deficit, and it's really important
(17:13):
and deadly to hear that you are sort of having
this conversation about viewing our bodies as strength considering all
of what our bodies have endured and that our bodies
should be celebrated as well. So wow, it's so fascinating,
so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And I think for us as adults, like I think
as well, like we have to do so much unlearning,
you know, and unlearning those kind of narratives or stories
that have been given to us about our bodies. You know,
I think for so many of us, we talk, you know,
we talk so much about walking between two worlds. But
I you know, I think when we talk about pleasure
(17:53):
and bodies, it goes beyond that to this idea that
our bodies have been labeled by others and as things.
You know, our body is a signal of a problem,
or our body is showing either how well colonization was
or how you know, or if it didn't work out
very well. You know, our skin is commented on color,
(18:13):
you know, you know, all of these sort of things
versus even you know again, and it's all very deficit
versus you know, when I look at my body and
my you know, skin on my face, and you know,
I see my family, I see my mob, I see
my Aunie's I see you know, I get to see
that in myself, and that's a strength but for a
(18:35):
very long time when I was growing up, you know,
and even still, I think identity is something we all
have to you know, be on our own journey with.
And you know, while you know my representation of my mob,
you know, when you're young, I think you I think
we're really hard on it. We're really hard on our
body and ourself and our image and what it represents.
(18:57):
And you know, there's always a thing.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
We want it to be. And I think this sort
of really underscores the importance of having these conversations with
young people so early, because you know, we've all experienced
or will continue to experience, that feeling of not feeling
desirable enough, loved enough, wanted enough, safe enough. You know,
(19:20):
sometimes when we work with clients from a burnout and
trauma perspective about even coming back to our bodies and
how that is as a process, like I guess in
and of itself. And so you know, we can see
why this conversation is just so important and just so needed,
(19:40):
and you know, working with both young people but also
just all people around, like you say, debunking this shamee.
You mentioned something before, and I want to pick it
up around you know, a lot of this is it
is around how you've grown up, which is, you know,
through your family and being open and that except and
(20:05):
you know that you've always had this curiosity and ability
to maybe experience pleasure. I wonder if thinking about your
experience and thinking about say, my experience, you know, does
the way that you talk about sex change when it
comes to dealing with mob or is that a really
is that also a very deficit way to look at it?
(20:26):
You know, I guess what I'm saying is, do you
approach this topic from a really holistic perspective for mob,
because yeah, we've also got a different sort of experience
in the colonies.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, I think, yeah, it's I completely understand what you're
asking because in a way to go, oh, I have
a completely different way of working with mob than I
do with white fellas. It's like inherently othering. It's very
othering because actually I work with people. But in saying that,
I also don't just work with people. I work with
people who have had you know, racism placed on them,
(21:00):
or who again have lived through colonization and continue to
live through colonization. And I work with people who've experienced
violent and I think, how you approach any of those
individuals looks really different. And to me, how how I
work with MOB is about creating a safe space, like
that's the most important thing. And for MOB, there is
(21:22):
you know, there are particular ways we do that, and
you know, it is about how you create a culturally
safe space. And sometimes that is as simple as me,
you know, even just acknowledging that I'm not going to
judge someone when they tell me about their family and
their family story, when they tell me about, you know,
the trauma that their family has experienced, I can go, yeah,
(21:43):
my family's experienced like, you know, the same trauma. And
just even that knowing of I know what they're talking about,
I'm not going to judge them or ask them to
try and you know, carry the burden of explaining to
me colonial violence, like even just me being to go, yeah, yeah,
I know what that is, I know what that feels like.
That's a lived experience and knowledge I have, and so
(22:05):
that can help me create a bit of a safe
space to have that, you know, this kind of a yarn.
And then I think, as well, you know, making sure
I'm not jumping into seeing things as a problem, because
like I've grown up in the colony, like I've grown
up with this idea. You know, teen pregnancy is bad
and having all these kids is bad. And you know,
(22:28):
we get taught really sex negative ideas and a lot
of those are actually quite counted what can be completely
culturally appropriate at times as well, And so you know,
me reminding myself that, hey, like I, you know, I
have biased because I've grown up in a colony that
has bias and calling it out so that the person
I'm yearning with goes, oh yeah, okay, Like like this
(22:51):
person will get it. They'll understand or at least they're
not going to judge me on how I talk or
how I word something or maybe what my needs are.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, gosh, it's like that. It's just that power of
lived experience and validation and that knowing, isn't it Sometimes
that that's why black therapists and counselors and psychologists and
sexologists are just so important for us as part of
this reclamation, to have that space where we feel that
(23:24):
they know what we're experiencing. Yeah, will be back you
mob right after this short break. I want to also
(23:48):
just sort of circle back from something you mentioned before
around you know, experiencing pleasure. And I recognize that this
is not to give anyone any advice outside of their
general mental health care plan or any other treatment that
they're seeing. But you know, for anyone, is there any
tips or suggestions or ways that we can cultivate more
(24:13):
awareness of when we're experiencing joy and pleasure in our bodies?
I know that, as I mentioned at the top of
the show, a big part of my healing journey over
the last fifteen twenty years has been to really learn
ways to come back to my body. It was sort
of the last step. I was such an able to
(24:34):
intellectualize how I was feeling and to think about it,
but not to experience it. And as somebody who's gone
on this journey myself, I know that it's been such
a practice to really accept my body for what it
is the fact that it's this sacred beating reminder of
my ancestors. As someone who lives with chronic illness, it's
(24:57):
been this process of reacquainting back to my body. But yeah,
I'm curious, you know, are there any ways that we
can cultivate more Yeah, more appreciation for our bodies?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Oh, definitely, I think I you know, I've been told
before this might sound radical, but I don't think in
this environment anyone's going to think it is. But like pleasure, sex, pleasure,
you know, our bodies, there's a Western mentality that's very
goal orientated. It's like there is success and failures, and
there are goals, and like with pleasure, the goal is
(25:33):
like an orgasm, for example, like to get super simple
and so people go, oh, okay, then if I'm doing
something with pleasure, it should end with an orgasm, and
an orgasm is an end. And it's very linear. It's
like point A to B and pleasure can become transactional.
Now to me, that's a real Western lens. And for
(25:54):
most us we are relational people. We are about building relationships,
and I think people you know, for us, we need
to think about what's the relationship you have withsure and
your body, and where is the space to explore that relationship.
You know, it's not just about hey, I need to
meet this goal, I need to hit this mark, I
need to tick this box. Because my word, that sounds
(26:17):
like some corporate jug and that has no no, no
space to be anywhere near anyone's body. So like, how
do we actually go well, how to explore myself, what
gives me pleasure, what gives me insane, toe curling, incredible
sexual pleasure, and then what gives me like joyful pleasure,
what gives my body comfort in pleasure? Like you know,
(26:39):
it can be about exploring something erotic or sensual, or
like take a minute when you change your sheets next
time to explore how much pleasure it gives your body
to like lie in them for the first time, and
something as little as bad giving yourself permission to create,
you know, to have a yarn about pleasure with yourself.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, well I love that. What is the relationship you
have with pleasure and where do you find space to
cultivate it? And I love it. This is why I
love having black butlers on this show Yarning Up to God,
because it's like this notion of we've had to go
to university learn a Western way and then completely decolonize
it and re unravel and unthink it. Because this notion
(27:25):
that pleasure there is no endpoint and it's nonlinear is
of course it makes so much sense. But you're right,
everything in a Western paradigm is about you know, quick
efficient end binaries, and so yeah, it's really it's really
it's a really fascinating conversation. You know, I guess with
(27:48):
that in mind. You know, for me personally, it's been
a journey to sort of differentiate certain feelings when it
comes to this, you so sort of lump and when
we talk about things like pleasure and intimacy, but also
joy well like black joy. And as I mentioned, I've
really been thinking about this question about when do I
(28:09):
notice when I feel joy and pleasure in my body?
And because I think over the last eleven months, with
what's been happening over the world, you know, we have
to be in a space where our joy and our
fear and our sadness can all coexist. Because when we
have these pleasurable moments or joyful moments, they give us
(28:30):
they expand our capacity to be able to you know,
get through things. So it's such an important part of
our toolkit. You know, I wonder with that, you know,
how do you get into your body? What person or
practice or things sort of light you up? And you know,
do you find yourself moving and dancing or just being
aware of your body and taking up that space? You know,
(28:52):
what are the things that yeah light you up?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah? No, I love this and I completely. Like before
I talk about what lights me up. You know, I
think the last eleven months as show us how much
we need joy and pleasure because I think we are
in such a globally connected time in the world, which
is amazing because it means we are more educated, we
are more involved, we are more intense with our advocacy
(29:17):
and more of our incredible advocates. But I also think
it means, because we're so connected, we feel guilt if
we take a minute for pleasure or joy, Like there
is such like we have such shame, you know, like
we put shame on ourselves for going. Oh, I should
be you know, if someone is suffering, I should be,
you know, spending twenty four to seven trying to fix
(29:38):
it when actually all that's going to do is burn
you out and then you are not actually going to
be helpful for anyone. And so I think people need
to also reframe it as pleasure is part of being
an advocate and part of having advocism, because you know,
if you don't have that, then your time, you know,
being able to show up is going to be really short.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, gosh, oh my god, that's such an important yard.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And also I'm not a mystic or like, you know,
like I'm not you know, amazing at it as well,
because I fall into traps of burning myself out with
work or with activism or you know, with all these
sort of things, and I have to remind myself to
find joy and to me pleasure and joy is also
about being playful, and so that's kind of where I
(30:28):
found at the moment.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
So I I am my big issue is when I
find something I like and that gives me joy and pleasure,
I'm such a like, oh do I need to like
make a new career out of this thing, or do
I need to like do it to like a professional level.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
And I was a professional dancer for many years, and
so dance gives me such joy. But I really struggle
not to be like, oh, well, if I do it,
I need to do it one hundred and ten percent,
and you know, throw my whole entire being into something,
which like, come on, we don't know what has time
for all of the things I had to find like
(31:05):
the other ways of giving myself joy and pleasure, And
a big one for me at the moment actually is
I've got my partner has gotten me kind of into
swimming and I've never been like a swimmer. I grew
up in Darwin. Water is danger not, it's not, it's
not how that worked. But like going to the pool
(31:26):
and I was, like, I thought doing laps and that
sort of thing was going to be the most boring
thing in the world. But I'm actually enjoying it. But
what I love is that we do our like you know,
we're adults, and you know, we're trying to take care
of our body and our health and our well being,
and so we do our swimming. But then we will
play mermaids, and we will do handstands, and we will
do like slip, I will do like silly ballet dancing
(31:51):
in the pool, and we'll use the diving board. And
like I think, as adults, there are so few opportunities
for us to be playful that I'm really feeling the
joy of that at the moment. And there's something so
pleasurable about Actually, you know, I'm almost thirty and I'm
doing handstands and being a mermaid and like a turtle
(32:11):
in the water. Yeah, giving myself to freedom and permission
to just like do whatever feels great.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yes, yes, slay to that. Oh my god, The freedom
to be so liberated in your own body that you can, yeah,
do some somersaults and cartwheels and just to be so free,
you know, and even like you know, just watching someone
like combust in a belly laughter and let loose and
(32:41):
has had that moment of just abyss into like complete
freedom and letting go. I think it's what it is.
It's like that letting go of something. And you know,
there's a few things you said. Their first thing is,
you know, thank you for sharing ways that you experience
joy in your body and you know, through dancing and swimming,
and I think also just sharing your honesty about that
whole thing which many of us experience, which is we
(33:04):
all have a proximity to, you know, the colonial mindset.
We're all unlearning. So thank you for reminding us of that,
because this idea that we have to be good at
things is another you know, very colonial white supremacy trait,
but just to do things for pure enjoyment and awe
and wonder. I think the other thing you mentioned before,
(33:27):
which I think is such a big important conversation, is
around this notion of black fellows having guilt when we
experience joy and pleasure. And I fully I think there's
a whole like research slash, you know, resources that should
be provided in thinking about this, because you're right, you know,
we live in it in such sometimes dysfunction of such
(33:49):
sadness and sorrow and sorry business and activism and fight
or flight, that when we do experience joy, we do
feel that that pang of guilts and should I be
sharing it or you know, I'd be celebrating this. It's
so interesting because it's so counter to how we view
a lot of things, where such circle holistic people, but
(34:10):
we all fall into these binary colonial traps in our
own minds to say that we have to be this
or that and we can't have a space in our
lives where these things coexist. You know, even in the
most darkest moments of my grief and loss, I've had
these moments where I've like wanted to be laughing and silly,
and I've felt such a guilty even to feel another emotion.
(34:32):
And so I think it's just a really important conversation
to have around our emotions can coexist and where all
of these things can sit in the same bucket at
the same day, and that we the ultimate act and
the biggest fuck you to the colony is a happy
black fellow, you know, and you're yeah, you're just smiling
up walking down the street. Everyone's going to be very
(34:54):
unsettled about your legitimacy as a black fellow, and you've
been happy as so. You know, I think it's so
important yard to have.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I think, yeah, and I yeah, exactly. I think there's
such power in us, you know, carving out space for
ourselves to because we talk about being you know, like
loud and proud a lot. We talk about, you know,
moving away from that like angry black woman narrative, but
I think we are being you know, angry as black women.
It's like, yeah, I can be just as loud when
I'm angry as when I am joyful. And you know,
(35:26):
our body is really good at, you know, allowing space
for emotions to come in and out.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, that's such an important point.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
We judge ourselves really harshly on how our body experiences
things like whether that's sexual pleasure, whether it's arousal, whether
it's desire, as well as when we are sad or happy,
or frustrated or angry or you know, in grief.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, just such a reminder that all of our emotions
are so contrived of how they should look and feel,
and that's why, you know, just to feel them in
your authentic way. And I notice this sort of brings
an important question to mine around I guess the connection
between sexual intimacy and connected being connected to our body
(36:14):
and our overall emotional health and wellbeing. You know, how
important do you think it is for us to feel
intimate and desired and wanted and all of those things?
I know, for me personally, my love language is touch
and words of affirmation a bit. With my partner for
thirteen years. He's a gifts and acts guy, so we've
(36:34):
had to learn to communicate. But I need affection to survive.
It's like I'm like a catteror dog or something. I
just need to feel connected on this really spiritual, cosmic level.
I'm just yeah, And so I wonder, you know, how
important is this conversation around intimacy and desirability for our
(36:54):
overall wellbeing?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Really great point, and I think I want to like
go open up and come specific because I think overall
this can be hugely important for so many people. I
acknowledge that there are so many people who are you know,
asexual or a romantic and who you know, sex and
that kind of physical intancy is not an important part
(37:19):
of their lives. And like that that's also completely valid.
And I think, you know, I don't want anyone to
feel like we need to that someone needs to be
hyper sexual or like you know, like performative in their
erotic self in a way that doesn't feel authentic from
a general perspective. But I think a lot of people,
you know, we've created or not even we have been
(37:41):
given a narrative that sex is you know, we either
have to be like shameful about it or we should
be the best lovers in the world, and like we
should know exactly what we're doing, but we should never
have to talk about it or ask questions and it
should come natural and if it doesn't come natural, then
something's wrong. And there's like so many layers to it.
(38:03):
And so I think, you know, how we create that
like space for ourselves is really important because you know,
it is vital just as much as I you know,
I'm a big believer when we talk if you look
into like you know, World Health Organization or these sort
of spaces when they talk about sexual health. We have
moved so far past the idea that sexual health is
(38:25):
just the absence of disease or the absence problem, like
we should be striving for so much more. We should
be striving for sex that is, you know, intimate and
satisfying and gives us what we need because some people,
you know, and everyone will have different needs around that.
But I don't think a lot of people ever ask
(38:46):
themselves what that need is, or give themselves the time
to actually ask themselves, you know, what does my body
want do? What does my mind erotically want? What do
I want with my partner? Or what do I want
in my casual relationships? What do I want? You know,
when I'm exploring my own body? And have I ever
actually asked myself that? Because that's a really vulnerable thing
(39:08):
to ask yourself, because you might open yourself up to
realizing that what you have currently is not enough or
it's not meeting your need, or you might actually just
have a blank canvas and your body is telling you
I don't know what I need. Yeah, And I think
that's really scary when we ask ourselves what do we
need and our body has no answer. But to me,
(39:30):
all that means is, oh, okay, we haven't experienced it yet.
So we need to explore, We need to create space
to try things, and you know, in safe ways, try
things so that our body can work out what it wants.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Gosh, oh, sis, I could seriously listen to you all day.
But you know what a beautiful reminder that, yeah, there
is no one size fits all about what it means
to feel connected to ourselves. And I think this is
why this is important. This is such a conversation around
relationality and the relationships we have with ourselves and others.
(40:07):
But again, what a strong, beautiful reminder and circling back
to earlier question around you know, if you are you know,
not feeling as connected or at home, maybe those questions
you might like to ask yourself, you know, what is
my relationship with pleasure? When do I experience it? And
you know, where do I create some more space to
tune in for what pleasure looks and feels like for
(40:28):
me because it is so unique and look so different
for everyone. And yeah, like you know, giving yourself permission
to like go on some self discovery as well, and
to have the courage to do so, I think as well,
because like you say, we're all learning about what it
means to feel strong and confident and safe and empowered
(40:51):
in our bodies.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And I just want to call out for people because
I think we, particularly women like you know, women across
the board, you know, Black women, particularly because we are
such like we often find ourselves in posions where we
are caring for others, where we are looking after others.
And you know, we're getting so much better at talking
about you know, quote unquote self care, which I do
(41:12):
find self care a very like Western idea anyway, but
like we are getting much better at talking about you know,
filling our own cups and you know, being aware of
what burnout looks like and doing that. But when things
get busy, when we get stressed, when you know, when
things are hectic, often pleasure is the first thing that
gets thrown out because we assume we don't have time
(41:36):
for it or space for it, or you know, what's
the point if I'm not ticking it off the box
kind of thing, and in doing that as pleasure being
the first thing that gets removed, Pleasure is the thing
that's going to keep us going.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, one hundred percent. It is the thing that keeps
us so expansive and open to new new ideas and newness.
I think. I think that's a really really great point.
And you know, with that in mind, I don't know
what your thoughts are on this, but you know, for
anyone who might be feeling that pleasure feels too strong
of a word, or we might not be there. You know,
(42:14):
maybe it's about thinking about when do I experience that
sense of fun and that lightness or like we were
talking about before, that sort of sense of going back
to our childlike states and just that fun. You know,
I've been thinking about this a lot. When I'm in
my joy, I just feel lighter, I feel more at ease,
(42:34):
I feel a warmth in my body. I feel I'm
more present, I feel I'm more curious. I feel I'm
more engaged. You know. It sort of can run parallel
to so many other ways that I show up within
myself and with my people and with my relationships, and
so yeah, I've really had to prioritize it, like and
(42:57):
also practice it, practice joy in fun because it does
feel you do feel a bit shame or a bit like,
I don't know, like you've got to be good at
it or that, you know, what's the point I need
to be doing things? But you know, just sort of
finding ways to practice just fun is important.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
So we have such a fear of failure, and like
this failure word is so intense and it is such
an idea of the colony when it's like it's not
about pass or fail succeed and this like it's not binary,
Like you're doing something, you're connecting with something, whether it's yourself,
(43:34):
whether it's country, whether it's mob, whether it's you know,
just a fun feeling. And I think that that fear
of failure is what leads us to that need to
be perfect. And it's like I had this the other
day when I was at my gathering space and having
a yarn and you know, when of my uncles started
painting and I hadn't painted in I don't even know
(43:57):
how long, and I was like, you know what, I'm
just I'm just gonna I'm just gonna do some and
I'm not I'm going to really try. And it was hard,
I want to call out. It was really hard to
not go, Okay, well, I'm painting something for a purpose
or it needs to mean a certain thing, or I
need to go in with an intention. I literally just
picked up a you know, astick and started painting and
(44:17):
just kind of let it be whatever it was. And
then what you know, since then, I've also tried to
not let my brain spiral into that. Well, now, if
you're going to do painting, you know, you've got to
do it this way and this is the right way,
and you've got to make a habit and you've got
to create a practice. And it's like, actually, what I
wanted in that moment paint because it was making me
feel connected to mob and like that feeling was what
(44:40):
was giving me joy. And of course I can paint again,
but like, I don't need to feel like I need
to make it look the way. You know, we feel
like we sometimes need to show up in white spaces.
I don't need to prove to anyone that I'm doing
something to better myself or to better something. I'm doing
it because I want to do it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
And you're so right. Not everything has to be performance
or for the gays. Some things are sacred just for ourselves,
And you know, I think that's it's a sacred act,
you know, just to to choose the things that you
that you want to do without having to Yeah, like
you say, over complicated or being seven layers deep, yeah,
I think it's just for me. Taking away from this
(45:23):
is just a reminder to give ourselves permission to, yeah,
check in with what our needs and wants and desires are,
and that our that we're worthy of the time and
attention to ask ourselves what do we want? You know,
when do we feel connected? And just that we all
have permission to, yeah, experience all of all of life
(45:45):
and all of the emotions including joy and pleasure and desire.
So yeah, certainly given me a lot to think about sis.
I mean, where can people I know that you're you,
I know that you're heading up education a Body Safety Victoria,
and I know you've just done or you are doing
your churchhill, But yeah, where can people come and connect
(46:06):
to some of the work you're doing. Are you able
to share some of the things that you've got in
the pipeline for anyone who, like me, is just so
interested in learning more from you?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, yeah, of course. Well look I'm always up for
a yana a chat, so everyone please feel free to
reach out. Yet, so for education, I'm the head of
education with Body Safety Australia. You can reach me on
like Instagram is probably one of the easiest ways to
reach out to me. So I'm Lauren French sexologist on Instagram.
(46:38):
I'm not seeing clients in private practice at the moment
because yes, as you said, I've just returned from completing
the travel portion of my Churchill fellowship. My fellowship was
specifically looking at indigenous elder guided practice around community healing
and repair, specifically after youth sexual violence. So I've been
(47:01):
like deep diving on like indigenous ways of learning and
like doing research that is actually for mob and not
just you know, for an academic lens in a western way.
And so I have a report on my fellowship coming
out soon. Don't ask me the actual date. I do
not know yet, but like once that is out there,
(47:23):
we'll be able to read that. And so yeah, so
if people want to have a yarm with me about
the work, the education work, go to Body Safety Australia.
If you want to have a yarm with me about
being a sexologist or that work that I do, Instagram
probably the best place. And basically just everyone look out
for my report because I'd really love it if someone
other than me and my mum read it, so like
(47:45):
that would be really great.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
At Wow Wow, we will be sure to put all
of your details in our show notes about where to
connect to Body Safety Australia and over Instagram. But I
just want to say thank you so so much. You've
really given me a lot to think about. You know,
it's been really fascinating to learn about. Yeah, where you
started with your family as a curious young person black
(48:09):
fellow in Northern Territory and where you've gone on around
the world to have these conversations across you know, the globe.
So you know, just want to say thank you for
this hard yaka that you're doing, and thanks for giving
me a lot to think about as well on my
journey into coming back and reclaiming my body and thinking
about pleasure and pleasure activism.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Love that for you know, thank you so much for
having me and I hope this will be helpful for
everyone listening, and like for anyone listening, you know, don't
feel like you need to take a huge step around
this space either, like little things, find a little thing
that brings you pleasure and joy and yeah, like you know,
just I think if we can all give ourselves permission
to prioritize pleasure for it to actually be a thing,
(48:52):
we're allowed to prioritize in our day, or our week,
or our month or our year. Then I think that's
a hugely, you know, powerful piece of activism.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I'm just gonna leave it on that note because that
is such an important, beautiful thing to sort of remind
us as we as we close out the show. Thank
you again, my cis. I really appreciate your time today.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Thanks Everyoneesday Deadly, Thank you so much for listening you mob.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
If you are vibing this season of yearning up, then
please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts from to show us love, rate, and review. Alternatively,
you can get in contact and give us some feedback
by visiting www. Dot carolinecow dot com dot ahu
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