Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Gooday, Pete, Hell are you here? Welcome to you Ain't
Seen Nothing Yet? The Movie Podcast. We're our chat to
a movie lover about a classic or beloved movie they
haven't quite got around to watching until now. And today's
guest author extraordinary Aaron Blaby.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
All below.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I want to stay here with you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Got little Jobber? Why hate Snake sucked my hails?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
The county haven't.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Any right, So you ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Aaron joined us last week for part one of this conversation.
He shared his favorite films, which were TUTSI, Reservoir Dogs,
and of course Jaws. We also spoke about the brand
new film Bad Guys Too, based on his massively successful
kids series The Bad Guys, and this is an extraordinary
(01:15):
follow up. It is such a fun film. I employ
you to ord to go see it. Sam Rockwell, Aquafina,
Mark Maron. It's got a great cast and it's just
it's like watching a Steven Soderberg or Tarantino film. It's
it's a for kids, but it's really cool. So check
out Bad Guys Too. But now we're going to get
into the movie. We are here to talk about you.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Like football, Mason, Not really?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, I know you don't.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
That's why I've just assigned you to shoot the football
game tonight. Okay, starts at seven thirty. I want you
to get there early. I want you to shoot a
full card, three hundred images. I want him downloaded, I
want him sorted, and I want to see him very
first thing Monday.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Okay. I want to know why I'm doing this. It
does Who do you want to be, Mason? What do
you want to do?
Speaker 4 (02:04):
I want to take pictures. Mc laurens.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Any dipshit can take pictures, Mace, all right, that's special.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
What can you bring to it that nobody else can?
Speaker 6 (02:18):
That's what I'm trying to find out.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Try harder.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Hey, maybe in twenty years you can call old mister
Turlington and you can say thank you, sir for that
terrific dark room chat we had that day.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Get back a class and do your work.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Richard Ncleta twenty four nin starring Ela cool Train Pictures,
Rock cats Ethan Hook, laurlay Linkleta as well Aaron Blaby.
Did you enjoy Boyhood?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I enjoy is it was? This is the trouble It's
it says on the Wikipedia page. It is one of
the greatest movies ever made is how it's described, right, Yep,
I don't agree. I didn't disc it's not.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
A heavy criticism saying it's not the best film of
all time.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I didn't. I didn't dislike it. I massively applaud the
scope of what link later did. I think that's amazing
to shoot these people every couple of years, over twelve years,
to tell a very simple story about a kid's, you know,
formative years. I thought that was great. Like the actors
(03:31):
are lovely, Patricia's always great. Was it an Oscar performance?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I mean, I know a lot of people really love it,
but I love Patricia Arquette. But this performances of hers
that I've probably been more amazed by when I watched them.
I did like when watching Ethan Hawk because I sort
of feel I felt like you watched him kind of
come into his sort of own as an actor as
(04:00):
the film was progressing, actually, which I thought was kind
of interesting because he got that the sort of grounded
more and more. I get the story is so like
a simple coming of age kind of thing, And I
think perhaps part of the problem for me is I
(04:22):
enjoy that to a degree, but I I'm not adverse
to a plot in a film a little bit, like
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
And it really doesn't have one arc to the story.
I saw it in the cinema when it came out.
I'm a link Lader fan, even though I saw this
before The Sunrise, you know, films before films, and this
is almost like a twelve year version of that, because
that's basically twenty four hour kind of ad libbing, kind
of going on in the loose kind of style, and
(04:52):
this is always done over the twelve years.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I do.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I do love this film, but it is a very
much if I was told there was the greatest film ever,
you know, you may bee and I know some people
the gimmick kind of looms a little bit too large
for them that you kind of know. I did. I
did love the subtle changes into you know, into each year,
just true you know the fact that there's an election
(05:19):
going on, or there's you know, Harry Harry Potter, Harry
Potter coming out, and a part of you know, I
thought it was really good back on Ethan Hawk. I
did love because my expectation when I first sort of
film was like, oh, this is the deadbeat dad. He's
often he's you know, it hasn't worked out between them.
I love the fact that we don't find out why
because it's all done through the boy's perspective, and sometimes
(05:42):
kids don't.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Know why their parents get divorce.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
So the fact that he wasn't the big dad I
thought was I gave big props through it was like, no,
good on you for you engage whatever reason. It hasn't
worked out with Patricia Quette Olivia, but you are still
an engage father.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah. I look, I thought all of that was great.
I think and I think he was. They got so
lucky with that kid. The kid's performance.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Can you imagine you're producer? You're an EP now? Like,
like the the logistics of that. Obviously Ethan Hawks are
one of his best mates, so he's like locked dem
hand got his daughter in because like, okay, she wanted
out after a couple of years. Apparently yeah, he said, no,
you are doing it, and but the logistics of it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah. Oh, and and the fact that if someone is
a natural on camera as a little boy doesn't necessarily
mean that it's going to sustain all the way to eighteen,
and it did. He was beautiful in it. I thought,
there's something about and it's and in a lot of
like Dazed and Confused by Link Ladder is a good
(06:53):
example that kind of im prod vibe can be really
effective in this There's in this one, there were you know,
there's a few moments where I kind of kind of
feel like I'm watching a student film just a little bit,
but that's you know, it's and it was. I don't know.
(07:13):
I think maybe it was partly the hype. I'm not
sure what my reservation was before seeing it. I'm glad
I've seen it, but no, I I didn't. I didn't.
I didn't love it. I wasn't bored exactly, but I
was a little disengaged. I just thought there was it
(07:33):
was a little too the storytelling was a little too
naturalistic for me, just the way that it flowed through
a regular life. Yeah, yeah, I think, but that's probably
says more about me than about them.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Making Nostalgica good make you feel about your own because
I kind of I had a very different childhood to
to Mason Jr. But there's a lot of touched onto
it still there, and it did maybe kind of think
about how growing up I thought about my own kids
and how they go from year to year to year
and the subtle shit. Actually watched it with my seventeen
(08:09):
year old, right, and he really he loved it. I'm
not sure he's just telling you that he's told around.
I looked. I was like looking over during the film,
kind of got it, getting bored. The phone's not out.
The phone hasn't come out once. That's a good sign.
But yeah, he kind of made me nostalgic about my
own childhood and then like watching my kids grow up
(08:29):
as well.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, not really, it didn't I And it's interesting. My
eldest son, who's now nineteen, we we used to we
used to call it inappropriate movie night, but we used
to watch that kid has seen everything, and he's a
complete cinephile, and we have we've never seen that together,
(08:54):
and he still hasn't seen it. I suspect his response
would be not dissimilar to mine have. But we from
the age of six all the way through to now,
really we you know, we would sort of see everything,
and I would sneak him in sometimes to see things
that you know, probably shouldn't have seen. But he was
always bulletproof for that kind of stuff and just has
(09:18):
a brilliant sense of all those things. So my point
is it's kind of the film that I should feel
sort of nostalgia about that, But yeah, I was outside
of it. I sat outside of it for the whole time.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Would you have liked something bigger to happen? Because in
a way like nothing really happens, you can argue that
a lot happens a lot like life. Absolutely absolutely, I'm
sure it must have been a choice not to have
a death of a parent or a death of a friend.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's microcosmic, and I get why people find that really beautiful.
I think there's just something about the execution, something about
the way that Link later makes films that I just
it leaves I sort of feel almost like I'm watching
it through glass a little bit like that. It didn't
affect me the way that it's evidently affected lots of people,
(10:09):
because the response has been so gigantic and beautiful. But
for them, But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
The moments where there seemed to be the story was
with the husbands that she found the two.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Husbands recurring drinking situation, which.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Was interesting, wasn't it That she found two men who
were very nice to begin with, and then falling to drinking,
and the marriages dissolved as soon as that second husband
opened that can of beer.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I actually forgotten what happened in that. It's been well,
I've seen that. But what did you think of the
That was at least a bit of drama, wasn't it.
Let's have at listen to that the scene at the
at the time, I'm having a.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Drink with my dinner. Anybody else have a problem with that?
Speaker 6 (11:10):
Mm hmm, Samanthaka, Maybe no, I didn't think so.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
H h oh, you don't like me much to you, Mason,
That's okay. I don't like me either. I think that's funny. Huh,
(11:49):
I think that's funny. What's the matter? You're feeling left out?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I hate squash.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I hate squashes. It's a grimly funny line. I've only
read that the actor is a particularly lovely guy. Everyone's red.
He's a nice guy, this guy, but he's very convincing
in that role. But I remember thinking that felt like
that was needed at that part of the film, just
to give it something some energy.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, and and there's there's obviously lots of lovely moments,
like just the framing of her laying on the ground
under the half down roller door where he obviously hit her.
I mean the framing of that was great, that felt
very real and like at that moment would occur when
the kids are coming home. And then suddenly there's something
kind of weird about the feel of that, that feels
(12:50):
like when something terrible does happen. Yeah, it's just it's
it's it's three hours long, and and and I think
that's hard to pull off. I don't think. I don't
think there are many directors who can like justifiably pull
off three hours. I think Tarantino is one of them.
I think Scorsese has done it a few times. I
(13:10):
think Paul Thomas Anderson can. Like Boogie Night's one of
my favorite films. If I hesitated about Mince like flipping
one of those out for incredible and this, I just
I wasn't sustained enough by it. But again, I wonder
(13:31):
if that says more about me than about the movie.
But I don't know, I don't know. It just it
it's a bit ordinary life painted, you know, sensitively and thoughtfully,
but just not maybe just not dramatic enough for my taste.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Which I think. I think if you had a criticism
of the movie that that's it. But that's what that's
what makes it an ambitious film, isn't it. Like it's
not everyone. You can't go out and make an ambitious
film and everyone loves.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Oh absolutely absolutely, now he should and again a like
nothing but the wildest of admiration for the decision to
make the film the way that he made the film.
That's that's incredible. Did I particularly enjoy it, No, but
I think that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It's interesting. A little footnote that Ethan Hawke and Patricarque
both went through divorces, remarriages and had a kid during
the time of making the film, so you could, like
you said, you saw him kind of develop his acting
style within that that twelve years, but they were also
going through a lot of changes. I think petrihar Quet
was shooting the TV show Medium during the time. So
like again, the logistics freak me out. There was one
(14:42):
moment which I really loved, which kind of I often
think about it as a parent. Lets you did the
same about you try to You think you're in control
of what your kids remember, Like you might try to
chat to them about something and they'll remember this lesson
because I'm looking him in the eye and I'm like,
you know, I'm telling them, or you know, we're driving
the car and this is a special moment. But you
(15:02):
have no control about what the kids remember, but they'll
remember stuff that you had given no thought. And there's
a lovely scene where Ethan Hawk's character sold the car.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I did like that scene. I have to say that
scene was great. And what I also liked about it
is that he's so clearly upset in the car and
then by the next scene he'd let it go, and
I thought that was like, it's sort of the film
in a nutshell in many ways. It just it's almost
like watching watching the Tide or something. There's you have
(15:34):
these flares and then well the life realigns again and
that so that was all really beautiful. But the car
scene was great. His reaction to hearing that the what
was it a charger or I can't remember, but he's
he's a gto hearing that the gto had been sold.
(15:55):
I thought that was that was that was pretty cool
and the fact that he and that felt very true.
You're right, it felt true to the things, the selective
things that your kids will hold on tight to despite you,
and and the way that Ethan didn't really understand what
his problem was to begin with, because he didn't think
(16:17):
they took that seriously. I couldn't even remember saying it
to him. Yeah so I like that, Yeah, yeah, you're right.
That's really good.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And there was a moment where it was played before
we will let you go? But which.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Which is right?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Okay? Probably wins the oscar For this scene, this is
the parting Mason's going off to college. She's now an
Indianesta and she has to She wrestles with this loving.
What is loving?
Speaker 4 (16:52):
This is the worst day of my life?
Speaker 6 (16:55):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I knew this day was coming. I just I didn't
know you were going to be so fucking happy to
be leaving.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I mean, it's not that I'm that happy.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
What do you expect? You know what?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I'm realizing My life is just gonna go like that.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
This series of milestones, getting married, having kids, getting divorced,
the time that we thought you were dyslexic when I
taught you how to ride a bike, getting divorced again,
getting my master's degree, finally getting the job I wanted,
sending Samantha off to college, sending you off to college.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
You know what's next. Huh, it's my fucking funeral. Just
go and leave my picture.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Aren't you jumping ahead by like forty years or something.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I just thought there would be more I can. I
can get her point is that Mason doesn't really know
how to respond, and I think that's in a movie
we is getting towards it. Back end of the movie.
He tended to write like a little speech you know
that he calms her down or you know, like you know,
(18:07):
but the kids don't know what to say when they
see them. Mum, you know, he is an upset and
I think that's again really true. I mean again, maybe
more drama could have been injected to get Aaron Blaby
across the line, but I like that these did not
know what to say to that.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, I hear you, And that scene stuck out to
me in a way that I I felt weirdly because again,
everything she's saying, especially when you're I'm fifty one. I
don't know how old you are, but yeah, so these
are things that we've heard people we know and love
say around our age about. So when that speech happened,
(18:50):
the content of it was relatable and familiar and all
of those things. Did it in the context of the movie.
Did it affect me? Not real, I have to say.
And I love Patricia Racket. I think she's amazing, but
I don't know this this one. I know that it
was Hassanna like gigantically when it happened, but it's not
(19:12):
that left me cold exactly. But I again, I just
sort of felt like I was watching it almost academically somehow.
And but yes, I think you're right. The choice of
having him not know what to do with that feels true.
You know, that feels absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But yeah, and this podcast, by the way, there have
been many people coming in here and sat in your
chair and gone, I didn't quite connect, you know, because
you're like processing a film that you have just watched.
You were watching it in a time where it's for
this podcast and you're doing a promo tour, and you know,
I think it has to get you at the right time.
I mean, I film may never get you. I get
(19:53):
a feeling you probably won't watch it again. But but
you know, it either gets you or it doesn't. And
that's and that's the role of the dice rigit later
taken I think with this film.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yes, yeah, absolutely, and look and again all you know,
love and respect to any artist to make something that
is you know, original in approach and true and all
of those things, and and you know, in many ways
sort of aggressively non commercial in terms of how he's
(20:24):
gone about mate. I think that's beautiful, but it's it's
just some people will connect with the story he's telling
and others were't. Like there's Gus Van Sant has made
a bunch of films over the years. There was one
called Elephant, which is a school shooting film, which is
sort of like a in a parallel universe too days
(20:46):
to confused a little bit. They're both high school movies
but have totally different tones. And I remember finding Elephant
really weirdly hypnotic. There was something very because obviously it's
all heading somewhere, but you don't know unless you If
you went into that film cold, you would be sitting
there wondering why we're following these random high school kids
(21:07):
around just having banal conversations with each other. But there
was something about the way that that belt when all
hell breaks loose in a really cold and matter of
fact kind of way. It really engaged me. And there
are there's parallels between them a little bit, I think
as filmmakers, but I veered more towards Gusses. I suppose.
(21:29):
I don't know why I've made that connection just in
the moment, but they feel connected somehow. But there's something
I don't know. It's a performance thing too, like I said,
the improy kind of quality of link. Later stuff leaves
me a little bit cold sometimes, Like I said, there's
a there's a slightly student film was hush, but you
(21:49):
know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
People who woke up in the middle of the nightgown
coach wellte thank you so congratulated on bad guys too,
And did I read I watch an interview with you
saying are you retiring from kids books?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I finished that I did forty eight books in ten years,
so astonishing. I was done and very, very tired, and
I've had two years off and then I got an
offer I couldn't refuse, for I had another idea that
I've always really loved for a new series, and I thought,
(22:31):
I'm not sure I'm going to have the energy to
do that. And then a series of things happened and
I signed a new deal this year to create another
series but for older kids, so sort of the novels
like illustrated novels. And I've written the first one and
I had more fun doing that than I've ever had
doing anything. I loved it, So yeah, I excited. And
(22:54):
it's only one a year because I've been doing like
edits I was doing. I did five books one year
during the During that period, I did two Bad Guys
every year, often one or two pig books. You know,
there was just it was just too much. It was
really exciting at the time, but it meant that I
(23:14):
was routinely doing ninety to one hundred hours a week
in my studio, which after ten years nearly killed me.
So two years off and then a nice single book
a year situation, and I'm really excited to be doing
it again, which is like it's actually really fun again.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Can you tell us the name of the book.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
The series is called Game of Pets.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Game of Pets. Okay, all right, Well, hopefully you can
come back when Game of Pets comes out and we
can chat about another movie if we can find another
movie that but yeah, a real joy. You've been part
of our house, you know, my family's house for it.
You know, my kids growing up and with the bad
Guy's been in particular and pick the parkat So yeah,
(23:56):
it's a real pleasure to meet you and to hang
out with you.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Thank you, Pet.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
So what's the point.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Or what?
Speaker 6 (24:03):
I don't know any of that?
Speaker 7 (24:05):
Everything everything? What's the point of sure?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Shit, don't know.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
Neither does anybody else. Okay, we're all just winging it,
you know. I mean the goodness is your feeling stuff,
you know, and you got a hold onto that, you do.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, Aaron Blaby Bad guys too in cinemas now check
it out. It was such a thrill meeting him. He
has been part of our house for a long time,
like I mentioned to him, so it was great to
have him in the studio for you ain't see nothing
yet obviously on a promo to it. Part of me,
he's on a promo to it. So I didn't have
(24:45):
quite as long as we would usually have for a
guess by about ten or fifteen minutes. So there's a
couple of things that we just didn't quite get to,
which are a fun facts which I love getting out there.
Ethan Hawk had an agreement with Richard Link later if
Richard died during production, that Ethan Hawk would actually finish
directing the film or bases were covered for the production.
(25:09):
Laurel Link later was cast and asked to be killed
off during the movie. After about the third or fourth year,
she was getting a bit tired of it, but and
she wanted to be killed off. Her dad explained that
that might be a bit violent for this film, and
Laurel then recommitted and found her enthusiasm for the project.
(25:32):
The Beatles Black album that Ethan Hawk gives his Mason
Senior gives Mason Jr. He's actually the exact same album
that Ethan Hawk gave his daughter Mayor Hawk, you might
know from stranger Things to navigate the divorce between him
and his then wife Irma Thurman. So nice little personal touch.
(25:54):
Richard Link later asked Pati not to have any plastic
surgery over the twelve years because that wouldn't be in
line with Olivia's character, which is quite a demand. I
want to be asked the same question to Ethan Hawk.
No actors were contractually obliged to return year in, year
out due to California's labor rules. You can't contract anyone
(26:16):
for longer than seven years in California. Yeah, contracting somebody
for twelve years unless you're Buddy Franklin, just doesn't cut it.
So it was important that he did actually ask his
daughter and a friend in Ethan Hawke, to make sure
that they were up for the job. It was originally
titled twelve Years, but they changed it The Boyhood to
(26:38):
avoid any confusion with Twelve Years a Slave, which won
the Oscar the year before, two very different films. Originally
Later and Ethan Hawke both grew up as divorce fathers
who worked in insurance assessing risk, which is where Ethan
Hawk's character ends up. Which I did love that journey
(26:59):
that the year shifts and Mason Jr. So Mason Senior.
Now he has his new partner, and you can see
the change in him. He's less he's kind of less cool,
and he's becoming more of a dad. And he's in
the short white slave shirt and he's got the mo
and the you know, the kind of sensible haircut. I
thought that I enjoyed that little shift. I really enjoyed
(27:20):
the moment where he had that conversation with Olivia saying,
you know, thank you, you did a great job. As
you know, the parent, you know, he was able to
the swan in and be the fun dad, but she
was doing the heavy work and I thought that was
a lovely scene as well. Al Col Jrane's dad has
a cameo in the He is playing the guitar in
(27:43):
the street. There massive project during this over twelve years,
Las von Trier tried a film called Demension, which is
set to be set over thirty three years, I think
it was, and they bailed after six years. So not
for the fainthearted taking on these kind of projects, and
(28:03):
I just wanted to play this fine little thing. This
is this, this this actually kind of maybe giggle. You
think they ever will make another Star Wars. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
I mean I think if they were to make another one,
that the period where this Gama set is where it
would have to be because there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
After really yeah, there's nothing.
Speaker 7 (28:21):
Yeah, there's nothing else to do there, you know, he
can turn a handful.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
To assith Lord.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
We have some news for you guys. Star Wars will
continue post a return of the Jedi. But I really,
I really love this film. Some people might be listening disappointed.
Aaron Blaby didn't enjoy Boilhood as much as you.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
We do.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Get a little bit of that when our guests does
not enjoy the movie and we obviously we're watching classic
and blood movies. But I find absolutely fine. Like I said,
they're processing a film for the first time, they just
watched it. Maybe this doesn't get them in the in
the same way as it does it does you. We
had the Hamis McDonald and puns strong Love, you know,
Matt pre and didn't like Get Out, Adam Christy didn't
(29:02):
like Wall Street. It happens, and it's absolutely fine. I
love having that conversation with my guests about the film, whether.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
They liked it or not.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So yeah, really thoughtful, you know. Observations from Aaron Blake
next week on the show. Very excited to have Troy
Kinney Ossie comedian. Troy is like a one man empire.
He was for me for my Eyes, one of the
first comedians in Australia to this go. I'm not going
(29:33):
to wait for a network to call me. I'm not
going to wait for a radio station to call me.
I'm just going to create my own work. And A's
pumped his time and talent and efforts and money into
coarating his own sketch shows and sketch series online. Eventually
TV came knocking. But I just think he's incredible. I
(29:53):
think what he's done is incredible. He's a great guy.
I actually cast him in a scene in the first
episode of How To Stay Married, and so I've known
him for years. He is a great guy and I
cannot wait to have a chat with him. And it's
a big movie. It's a big movie. I can't think
of a movie that's had a bigger pop cultural impact. Well,
when I say a movie, it's a phenomenon. I'm speaking,
(30:17):
of course, of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
We are going Harry Potter with Troy Kinney next week
right here. And you ain't seen nothing. And so we
leave old Pete save Vansel, and to our friends of
(30:41):
the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good name.