Daina Reid and The Defiant Ones

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thank you to day Pete. Hell are you're here? Welcome

(00:02):
to you. Ain't seen nothing yet The movie podcast where
I chat to a movie lover about a classic or
beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now.
Today's guest director Dana Reid.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
All below.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
I want to stay here with you.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
He's the jobber.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
Why snakes shucked?

Speaker 5 (00:41):
Hi hail.

Speaker 6 (00:43):
Could happening right suck You ain't seen nothing new.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
This is a very special episode to have Dana read
on today. I first you have Dana. Before I met
Dana and got to know her, she was on the
fantastic comedy sketch comedy show Full Frontal, back in the
day when we used to do a bit more sketch
comedy than we do these days. She was fantastic on

(01:16):
Full Frontal. But I really got to know Dana when
she directed. Was one of the directors on the sketch
comedy show that I did called ski House, with the
likes of Tom Leese and the Tripod Boys, Damian Callanan,
Fiona Harris, the Great Cal Wilson, among others. And she
was fantastic to work with, so much so that years later,

(01:38):
when I was able to write and have a movie made.
Dana was the person we went to, and she directed
the movie I Love You Too. She did a fantastic
job and the first feature film, and I'll say this,
she made the film better, even not just what she

(01:59):
did with a camera, but what she did when I
was still writing it and making those little adjustments in
the in the year or two leading into shooting. Dana
made I Love You To a better film than what
it was going to be, and I'm forever grateful for
her doing that. She was so encouraging and supportive of
me because I was the first feature film and you know,

(02:20):
decent role that I had done, and you know there
was some nerves on my behalf too, but she was
so encouraging and supportive and she remains that to this day,
not hover my acting, but with writing as well. Dana
has gone on since then to become one of our
great directors, both on the small screen and the big screen.
She made a various mini series called Secret River, Never Turvis,

(02:44):
a Party in Access Story, Paper, Giants, at Birth of Cleo,
The Magazine, of Course, How's that Kerry Packer's War starting
a great Mate, Lucky Hume, Miss Fisher's Murder, Mysteries Offspring,
and then she kind of got well. Hollywood came calling
Young Rock, Handmaid's Tales. She was reunited with devonstra Howsky
from I Love You Too. She was nominally for an

(03:04):
Emmy Award in twenty nineteen. She won a twenty seventeen
Craft Award the Trained Director's Girl. She did Space Camp
Steve Carell and John Malkovich and Lisa Goodrow Upload with
Greg Daniels, and Space Camp is Greg Daniels as well.
So Greg Daniels is obviously a massive fan, and so
he should be. Dana is a bloody delight to know
she loves her movies. Sounds obvious, because director, you love movies,

(03:30):
you'd be surprised. Some people don't love talking about movies
as much most most do. Most do. But Dana's somebody
who whenever we get to see each other, which is
rarer than you know, I old hope. But she he's
very busy, but she loves all that movies. She loves
sci fi, loves a bit of horror as well. She
directed Run Rabbit Run with Sarah Snook in Great Mate

(03:51):
Damon Herriman, which he's on Netflix, but Dana is, and
that's delight. She's so knowledgeable and so cross her crown.
I can't wait hang out with her to.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
Hi.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
My name is Dana Reed and my three favorite films
Galaxy Quest, Never give Up, Never surrender, point break.

Speaker 5 (04:16):
You want the ultimate, you gotta be willing to pay
the ultimate price.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
It's not tragic today doing what you love and die
hard and you're too stone.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
It's read always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Help it because you.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
And I had not seen the defiant ones until this weekend.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Come on, let's go go where tier. Let's hey for Papa.

Speaker 6 (04:49):
I am the South.

Speaker 7 (04:50):
I don't go side a little girl and Papa if
she's still there, we get this brook.

Speaker 6 (04:53):
I'll come on and then what I'm a strange colored
man in white south town? How long you think before
they pick me up?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Get off my back? I am married, and you know
what a why I care?

Speaker 4 (05:02):
Come on?

Speaker 1 (05:02):
You married to me?

Speaker 3 (05:03):
All right?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Joker? And here's the ring.

Speaker 6 (05:05):
But I ain't going south on no honeymoon.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Now we going no through the swamp.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
We go round.

Speaker 6 (05:12):
It used to work at Turbmententie mail bout sixty miles
and north of here, there's a train come to pick
up the turbent time every day. Come out of the
west end of the swamp head and cross the line
to the paint makers up north in Ohio.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Now we try for that train.

Speaker 5 (05:27):
How long you been in jail eight?

Speaker 7 (05:29):
He is, Then, how do you know the train's still running?

Speaker 1 (05:32):
I don't know. You don't know.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
You asked me to go sixty miles with you and
you don't even know. What do you invite me on
a long walk off a short peer and I'm gonna
come up with a wehead nothing doing?

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Now come on, come on, damn you come on. Yes,
it's a nineteen fifties America and two men chained together
on a road gain escape after their carriage flips. Now,
the interesting thing about these two chaps is one is
what John Joker Jackson Tony Curtis in his only Oscar
nominated role, and the other Noah Cullen Sidney Poitier, becoming

(06:07):
the first African American male nominated for any Oscar of
any kind for Best Male Actor, is of course black.
With the prison warden predicting they won't make it five
miles without killing each other, Joker and Noah must learn
to put their differences aside and work together to navigate
river rapids, clay pits, swamps, lynch mobs, and their own prejudices,

(06:28):
all the well being hunted down by the police and
their dogs. Directed by Stanley Kramer, the genius behind It's
a Mad, Mad World. Guess Who's coming to dinner on
the beach judgment at Nuremberg Inherit the Wind from a
script from black listed writer Nadrick Young, who receives the
best screenplay Oscar under his pseudonym Nathany Douglas, only to
be officially recognized in nineteen ninety three at the request

(06:50):
of his widow. The Defiant Ones is one of the
all time great prison break movies, and just like an Antagonists,
it refuses to take the easy way out. Dane to read,
have you ever caught a frog in the wild?

Speaker 3 (07:02):
I have not.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah. That surprises me.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
I don't know why, because I'm so nimble.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
You nimble. You know you're made secret River that was
out in the wild. I thought maybe making secret River
you may.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
Have didn't any frogs.

Speaker 5 (07:14):
Frogs?

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Interesting? Interesting, welcome this. I feel like there's a special
edition of you. Ain't seeing nothing yet. I have a
unique history with you as opposed to any of the
other guests we've had on in that. As I mentioned
in the intro, you directed the one film that I've
been had the honor of making I Love You Too,
which did an incredible job at so I'm very much

(07:36):
looking forward to chatting about the definant ones with you.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
I just love how much of a movie buff you are,
So this is going to be fun. Because we were
so busy on I Love You Too, you don't get
much time to chin wag no.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Maybe like leading into it, we kind of spoke a
lot about movies that once you're kind of in the mix.
I think, especially you, because directing like I've directed, you know,
episodes of television before, which is you know, it's its
own thing. But a movie, there's so many questions. You
need to be a cross that's right. I have all
the answers.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
But have you seen that film nine that Nicole's in
with Daniel day Lewis and Judy Densch's going you're a director?
It's like yes, no, yes, no, yes no, that's all
you need to do. He just answer the questions. So
there is that aspect of it. There's a lot of questions,
but you just have to know the answers and you
but do.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
You think because I've heard people say this as well
when I was on my doing the TV series that
I directed. It's also there's a power in like saying
that you don't know sometimes absolutely because you do have.
And I didn't realize maybe probably until I saw it
on you with Allary Ryan, I love you too out
our dop. But how much of the DOP has to

(08:43):
say absolutely? And the support that they can.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Give you, Oh yeah, that's a really great team, you know,
and having a strong team because Eller is amazing. I mean,
what the beautiful pictures that we had.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
In that movie and we shut that on film, so
and Allery was it was a delight to watch. I
mean sometimes because I was also a producer. Sometimes you
looking at the clock, what's going you know, like we
probably need to move now, and Allorie is like, you know,
like waiting for light sometimes. You know, my image of
him is like with a cup of coffee maybe in
this and just looking and this, but he is looking

(09:13):
at the light and he's waiting. And because we were
shooting on film, so we don't you know, and grating
has become a different thing now in post production.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
So yeah, and You've got so much more leeway with
what we shoot on now, and you can shoot much
later with much less light. So it's it's it's a
really different kind of world that you're in. But that
team is so important. And I hear stories about dfs
and directors not getting on anything. How can that even be?
I work with Bonnie Elliott a lot on the last

(09:42):
few projects I've done, and we're very different people, but
the vision is so similar, and that's that is such
a support to me. Kind of knowing and going forward,
always having just knowing what you're doing and knowing what
you're going to make it look like is really special.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah. Absolutely, we'll talk about all that stuff very soon.
But let's talk about your Well, let's talk about the
The Finight Ones is briefly without knowing we'll get to
whether you liked it or not. What did you know
of the Defined Ones? Because I sent you the list
like I do all of our guests, and some you know,
I have in their heads already the film that they
haven't seen, but I gave you the list, and the

(10:17):
defint Ones was one that popped out.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Well, it's interesting because it's not like I don't go
looking for older films. I mean, you know, when we
talk about our favorite films, I've got so many of them,
and I haven't listed this particular one. Some like it
hot on that list, but I do love it, and
so I'm kind of and Tony Curtis's performance in that
is astonishing, and so I was surprised that I didn't

(10:41):
I hadn't heard of it, and having seen it, it's
really groundbreaking and really interesting. So I just thought, where
have I been to miss that? Because I love another film.
I think it's a nine to fifty six film called
Last Weekend with Raymondland. I love that movie. So yeah,
I was kind of like, oh, where has this one been?
Why has this not come up? So I was really
kind of grateful to you for suggesting it, well, because the.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
First time i'd seen it, i'd heard I'd heard of it,
and I think when I was doing a little bit
of a Sidney Poitier kind of you know, I watched
in the heat of the night for this podcast, and
then I followed that up just in my own time,
watching Guess He's coming for Dinner? And I was like,
what else has he done? And this kind of came up,
and I remember hearing about it at times, and I think,
out of all the films we have covered for you

(11:24):
see nothing yet, this is the film that I think
a lot of our audience, even the film nerds that
may may not have heard of it themselves. So I
think it's an exciting film to bring to people's attention.
I can't wait to talk to you about it. Let's
talk about your three favorite films A Galaxy Quests. So
this comes out like the ninth I'm thinking like mid
to late nineties.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Tim Allen, it's Tim Allen, It's Sigourney Weaver, it's Alan Rickman,
is it. It's not you, Gene Levy, it's Tony Shaloub.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Shaloop because it is but any mystery men, I think.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
But it's a very clever comedy. And I'm also big
sci fi.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
I say, you're a big sci fi fan, and this
is like a it's a spoof.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
Yeah, so it's like you know, the tired people off
Star Trek and all that sort of stuff. So it
really floats my boat. And it's absolutely beautifully structured. And
I'm kind of the ones I've chosen today because you
get to a certain age and you've seen so many.
It's very hard to pick three, and I've gone by Rewatch.
So if I'm sitting at home and you're flicking through

(12:25):
and you can't find anything, or you've had a bad day,
the movies that I'll go and Rewatch And that's what
I've picked today. And that's one will. I would watch
Galaxy Quest like tonight if someone is into me, Oh,
there's nothing I do. Want to watch Galaxy Quest A
get okay. It's just delightful. And it's also a really
good female role, like Soe Gone Weaver is so great
in it and kind of acknowledging that women's roles are

(12:48):
a bit rubbish and that's kind of the comedy of it.
And yeah, look, it really really floats my boat because.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
It's still probably would have been if women in comedy
often doing the romance romantic comedies, you know, and sometimes
even they were told potentially from a male perspective, probably
not until Bridesmaids really kind of you know, smashes it.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Really, that's so true. I mean, as a woman in comedy,
it's very very difficult. I mean I got told to
my face by kind of friendly people men who will go, oh,
chicks aren't funny. That's like, and you know, and that's
that's I'm not alone in that experience. It's it there's
something coming up that you always had to fight, even

(13:31):
though you know, right next to us were Magda and
Gina and Jane and that sort of stuff. And so
to see that be acknowledged, you know, in that movie,
like not the fact that she was funny. And also
the sci fi stuff is often very very exclusionary as well.
I can't read kind of older science fiction because even

(13:53):
though these men, these science fiction writers had great minds,
they couldn't see a future that there was gender and quality,
like they were still women, were still serving tea and
being secretary can.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Get their heads across all these sci fi ideas, you know,
planetary stuff, and then and then they can't get their
idea and a leading female character.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
Does not come into their brains at all. So a
lot of the sci fi read is quite modern. So
I think that was a really good nod to all
that stuff. So I kind of loved all of that.
And it's still you know, there's a Tim Allen is amazing,
their relationship is amazing, and just also the British theater
actor hating that he's in this science fiction show. I'm

(14:35):
sure that that Patrick Stewart actually loves being Jean Luc Picard.
But you just wonder because Alec Guinness was famous for.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
The Bond all of that.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
They're kind of like I'm with the interactor, there is.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Something about That's why I love Mark Hamill so much.
And I got the interview him for The Last Jedi
came out really, oh my god, the podcast recently, because
he just understands and has become like a caretaker for
you know, Star Wars, particularly the original trilogy, and has
no shame or regret or embarrassment about playing Luke Skywalker

(15:16):
and nor should he the greatest film of all time.
But he really he loves being involved in it and
respects the fans and it's happy to talk about it,
and there's no shame at all. Where Harrison Ford. Obviously
we don't have Carry Fisher anymore, but Harrison Ford is,
you know, he's a different beast, you know, and he's

(15:37):
got Blade Runner to talk about, and he's got, you know,
all these other things to talk about. But Mark Hamill's
extraordinary in that regard. I told him to his face,
I said, you're the look Skywalker. We needed.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Oh you're so lucky of what to speak to him.
I mean, he really is an extraordinary human. And I
remember when, you know, the Star Wars films had kind
of lulled a bit before all the reboots, and it
was a bit of a where are they now kind
of thing, and he wasn't doing much and he had
like a collectible shop, but he was so happy and
positive and thrilled to have been in it. And now

(16:08):
he's had this amazing resurgence with the you know, the
last ones and the fact that the whole being in
the cinema and the whole cinema is like those crazy
when he turns around, I just yeah, he's just got
that real beautiful heart. I mean, one of my favorites.
I would it again and many I could have gone forever,
but was always Star Wars to start with. I mean,

(16:29):
that's why I got into the business. I saw Star
Wars when I was ten, and that's why I wanted
to be a director, I keep saying.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Adam Christie, Canadian comedian, was on my podcast and he
said he said Star Wars was his favorite film, you know,
in his top three, And he said, anyone who says
Star Wars isn't in your top three, you are lying.
And it's like there's a truth to it, because even
if it's not in your top three and it's not
in mine, but it's like, I don't know why it's
not in mine, because it is the film that started

(16:54):
everything my cinematic journey as a fan and then being
able to make a film and write, and it's it
started everything.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, it did it really, it really really did. And yeah,
the only reason I didn't say it today is because
I'm kind of bored with saying it.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, no, I think, yeah, I think. I'm always fascinated
by how people choose their top three. And some people
it's strategic. They'll do something that's you know that their
comfort films something, Yeah, but they want to do also
something will be artistics, so they put that one in there,
the show that there's a deeper side to them, that's.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
Right, the intellectual side.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
You see that on those letterbox interviews all the time, like,
oh bullshit, I know.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
I love it when people just come out and go
when Harry Matt Sally, you know, Toy Story or whatever
it might be, Star Wars. Yeah, that's that's what I
love so just just going you said, you know, women
in comedy and you you know, people were saying those
things to you. That did that influence your your reasons
for stepping away from performing or because you're you're so

(17:53):
great for front all? And then I don't think we've
ever spoken about why you kind of went from almost
performing to not performing in then All.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Look, I was because I'd gone to I've done film
and television at university. So the plan was because the
star wars to be a director. That was my plan,
always the plan. And then you know, people at university said, oh,
you need to do a few acting classes if you
want to be a director. So I went off and
did acting classes. And then my you know, my class

(18:22):
or audition for the acting schools, and so I did
and I got in. So I kind of did a
little detour, but it didn't help, you know that sort
of you kind of go, well, maybe I know, maybe
I should get back on track with the other thing.
So and also I've got to say, in the nineties,
there's so much pressure on girls to be so so
so skinny, and I just didn't want to spend my

(18:43):
whole life on a diet, so so I kind of
went on this is when Full Frontal finished, I went,
that's it. I'm going to get back on track, and
I did you know, I kind of went straight back
into it and kind of and that's again that's where
I was headed. But yeah, that kind of stuff doesn't
make it go oh, I'll change my career here and
be a comedian.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
Yeah, but I'm so glad I got to do it though.
Like I think about that, I caught up with Sean
mcrloff and Bob Franklin last week and it's just a
real thrill for me to have been in that world
and have those memories.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Is a real time. I mentioned in the intro that
we don't really make a lot of sketch comedy anymore.
There's lot of stuff online and sketch comedy groups online,
I should point out, absolutely, but likely some cumor we're
making How to Stay Married? Can I say to me,
we need a sketch comedy show. We need a sketch
comedy show, and we have, you know, fast forward into
Full Frontal Comedy Company. It was a really rich time

(19:35):
and it was, you know, the big gig, and it
seemed to be everywhere and a way to.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Comment on the world around you and process it. Yeah,
and you know, because I see things even now and
I go, oh, we do the sketch of that, you know,
in the world that is now, it really feels like
there's so many opportunities to go, oh, I would do this,
or we would do that, we could write that sketch.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, I feel now it's just all hot takes on Twitter,
you know, and little memes that have become our sketches,
which is not They can be fun, but they're not
the same.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
And it was it was so rigorous and physical to
have to come up with an hour's worth of comedy
every week. It's quite brutal. I mean, in a sense,
the internet is a perfect kind of place for if
you've got small snippets and you haven't got that pressure too,
you know, because it's not you're not going to have
every single joke is not going to hit in an
hour show, whereas you can kind of distill it down

(20:24):
on the Internet. I think my kids that's all they watch.
I always hit. They're always chuckling away and they're watching
their favorite comics do their thing on the internet.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
My bridges, you know, should be giggling the way and
she's just flicking through reels. It's a thing. And so
it was Ted Amory. So you learned from oh yes,
under the wing.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
Yeah, I mean you and what not to do?

Speaker 1 (20:48):
The best part of it isn't it?

Speaker 4 (20:49):
And I say that with absolute love. And I've done things,
oh my god, where I've actually had because Ted would
come and grab you and physically move you where he
wants you in a vans like Ted, I can just
tell me where you want me to. I did that
myself and the other day because I was just like,
we haven't enough time quick and I went, oh my god,
I'm channeling Ted Hemory. I'm moving and acted.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Across the set. There's warm props.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
You know, come this way, come this way, come with me.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
So I learned a lot from being on the set,
you know, with him every day, watching that happen. It's
what years were they like, it's the nineties. I'm kind
of losing track. But I started doing Jimoen's show probably
in ninety four. Yeah, and then I think full frontal
goes to oh, I don't even know ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Because I did work experience a Channel seven and I
the first day that had me filing, and somebody kind
of almost Human Rights Commission came in and said, you
can't be filing all day. You need to actually have
him learned something. So I got to hang out for
two days with Drew morphittt. They like Drew Morphitt with
sport and that was great. I love that obviously, And

(21:53):
then the last day was just sitting in at full
frontal all fast forward. But that would have been ninety
he ninety.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
I think, yes, so that would be fuss forward, yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
I remember mag there and Jane being there and Michael Veitch,
who I loved, and all those guys. But I remember
ted Emory being on set and I just sat in
the in the in the bleachers just kind of watching rehearsals.
And I could tell then that ted Amory was somebody
who he had an awa about him, and that he
probably didn't suffer fools, Oh god no.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
And he also had a lot of creativity himself. So
if a GAG's not working and he can't find the
joke in it, he'll go go upstairs with us as
actors and then we come back down and he would
have had the gag. He will have worked something visual
out that supported supported it, so he was adding creatively

(22:44):
to it as well all the time.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Because how important is it to have that space. I
know Natalie Bailey, who directed some set up How to
Stay Married and has recently made a film called Audrey.
I'm not sure he sawdry, but I loved it really,
really great. I think I'm available to rent on fire
some now. And she was the one who said, have
the time with the actors, like you allowed to clear
the set and this have so basically that means everyone

(23:08):
else is out. Basically it's usually the actors and maybe
the cinematographer or thep And once you have that, it's
it's a different headspace because you have this low private moment.
You're not you're not looking at people looking at their watches,
or you're not feeling people. It's like your dad looking
over your shoulder when you're doing your homework and they're impatient.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
They want to do their job. Yes, yeah, So you
have to exactly get rid of that, have your private
private blocking as they call it, and spend the time.
And I always rehearse anyway, I mean we probably rehearsed
on I Love You Too. And I'm always very focused
on the actors because really, at the end of the day,
that is all that matters. There's words and the performances

(23:44):
and getting that right. So you want to have that
just on your own, no one looking, no one rushing.
They will try and hang around like I'm important. I'll stay. No, no,
if you go off, you go. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Let's talk about two films that I've certainly seen many times.
Let's start with die Hard tell Me Little Watches for
the first time for this podcast, and when I was
watching it, I hadn't seen it for a while, and
it's just it's still it's stunning. It's so good.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
Yeah, and it's funny.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
I mean that one again as a rewatch. I watched
it every Christmas Eve and have been for like twenty years,
twenty five years. And I won't watch it in betweens
like band. So really, so we're not allowed to have
a look at it. It's only on Christmas Eve. But
it is so well structured, it's so amazing. And I
have to say, Bonnie Badelia, there is no Bonnie Badelia now,

(24:37):
so you know that's missus McLean right. If that film
was made now, she would be hot. I'm not saying
that Bonnie Badelia's not Hoteah. She's a normal person and
she's really a great actor. So she brings so much
more to that role. She just wouldn't get cast now
and that's really changed. So I enjoy watching her the

(24:58):
whole way through it. Clever, stoic, controlled, calm. So I'm
watching it for her as much as I'm watching it
for Bruce and for Alan Rickman. But Alan Rickman is
off the chart. He's I mean, he really is pivotal
in that film. But so and I don't know this
actor's name, and I should because he's in the Breakfast

(25:19):
Club as well. But he's the cop that comes in.
I've forgotten his name, but he plays this the principal.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yes, yes, Domestaball you get the horns, Yes, that's that guy.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Such a great character actor and brings such humor to
it as well. And of course there's the two Agent
Johnson's and it's so funny. It's Agent John's here, no
the other one. Like it's just there's so many gags
in it in the middle of all this really great. Yeah,
it doesn't take away from the grave situation.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
I think it's a balancing act, isn't it a film
that doesn't take itself too seriously, but also it makes
you feel everything you're supposed to be feeling in the
tension of them of the story.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
That's right, and it looks a million bucks. It's at
yonder BoNT Is the GOP. So it's so much about
those lenses, those flares in the lenses that you just
recognize when you kind of think about that film, even
if you're not into knowing about that stuff, it's having
an effect on you. And of course he goes on
to direct Speed with Count so yeah, he was a

(26:23):
huge part of the success of that film as well.
But of course John Tourney is quite controversial, so the director,
he ended up in prison, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, So look,
I think it was cocaine related, but I might be wrong,
and I don't want to spread rumors, but he ends
up in prison, so Hollywood, I mean, and a.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Lot of things you're being in prison for. Yeah, cocaine whatever,
that's fine, we can deal with that. We can deal
with that. But also around that time, you had these
kind of you know, obviously mostly leading men Otto Sigourney
Weaver kind of again stands out, and then that time
with a alien, but men who lead characters and protagonists

(27:05):
who could get hurt, you know, and Mel Gibson and
Left the Weapon you know, stands out well. Gibson, you know,
plays a wounded guy as much, you know, as well
as anyone, and that's what I love about him and
Late the Weapon. But that John McLean's Bruce Willis' is
like that. I mean that the fact that losing your
shoes is such a simple little device, but you're going
to go, Yeah, that makes it this a whole lot

(27:25):
harder because he's got to walk up a broken literally
broken the broken glass.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
I mean, it's it's so brilliant that giving those the
little details to make him so vulnerable, I mean, and
also so iconic. You can wear it as a Halloween outfit,
fair feet and.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Single simple att but he kind of owns it, does Yeah,
he really.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Really owns it. But it is there a real team,
he and his wife, you know that sort of Yeah,
he's a family man, so it makes it much more so.
I was never into you know, all the death Whishure,
all those bloky kind of films because they're quite exclusionary,
but that one, it's he's a team with his wife
and she's even though it's kind of psychological, but she's

(28:05):
rooting for him the whole time.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
But it kind of makes it a Christmas movie, doesn't it.
It's like, it's not Christmas. Movies aren't just about having
decorations around. It's about, you know, often somebody trying to
get home for Christmas. And that's exactly what McLean's trying
to do.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah, he's over there, he's trying to mend his marriage
and it's Christmas time. And I mean that's the brilliance
about that score. It's all the all the bells and
all the you know, and and the bad guys are
there and it's kind of winter Wonderland is kind of
playing in the score in a sinister way. It's just unreal.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, there's also a feeling when I watched My Heart,
it's like the Christs is great because it feels like
that's when everybody has knocked off. Everyone's kind of gone,
Everyone's going home to their family, and this shouldn't be
happening on Christmas. Evil Christ is not which one of this,
but yeah it should be. You should be with your family,
so that it does add that other emotional layer. And

(28:58):
like you said, it's is physically trying to get back obviously,
but he's emotionally trying to get back. That that double
team tandem thing of emotional and physical is what makes
it brilliant.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
And the husband and wife realizing how much they need
each other, yeah, and that they are still a team.
It's so wish I should know who wrote it, Oh
my god, because it's so clever about how they know
what they've put up. And even with Officer Powell, you know,
and he's comeback, he's got his own journey within it
as well, which is, you know, he grows and grows

(29:29):
and grows through through the film. So you've got an
extra character doing that.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
And that's you'd like to see movies that, you know.
And I think I said this with even because I
Love you too, that that Yeah, if you swung a
camera on one of the extras, you know, or not
maybe one of the extra but you know somebody, you know,
you know, a minor character, you would still find an
interesting story to tell about them. So the diehardess I

(29:55):
did look it up, and it's not coming off the
top of my head. Based on the novel Bi Roderick Thought.
Screenplay by Jeb Stuart and Steven E. D. Sauser.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
So there you go, because it really is a great
feat of amazing structure and writing.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, imagine novel. Johnson is Yeah, family matters, Ghostbusters, he's
a good man, all right, Painte Break, Keanu Reeves, Patrick Swayze.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Well, of course it's Catherine Bigelow. He's one of my heroes.
Hurt Locker and when when's the Academy Award which hardly
ever happens, and happens so much more.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
The first the first female director of win.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
It may have been there, may have been one in
the past, but it should be loads more. Yeah, it's
kind of a little bit embarrassing, but yeah, so directed
by her, and it's really boldly directed, like she's really
gone for something. But the result is so includes you
like it's it's really strong choices, but you feel like

(30:52):
you're at home so much. I mean, there's that particular
shot where Johnny Hughtah walks into the party.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
By the way, that's all you need to know, Johnny,
I know what movie this is, I think you.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
Know, walks in with Lori Petty, I can't remember what
her name is, Tyler and Tyler and it's full point
of view on the steady cam and all the all
the surfers are kind of looking down the barrel of
the camera and interacting any kind of like that's a
really bold choice, but I'm here for it. And the
performances are so incredible. I mean, you know, we miss

(31:28):
Patrick's waiting all the time. There's a big hole in
that in Hollywood without him in it. Yeah, because what
he brings to that character. It's again really strong males
who aren't alienating in any way. And the fact that
Lori Petty is not again your long blonde head. She's
an unusual choice. She's an unusual woman for Keanu to

(31:53):
team up with. So it's much more. It includes you
as a female viewer, so much more because she's so
relatable and yeah, you're or her, you're with her. She's
on her own as a surfer chick. That's such a
masculine kind of world and she's holding her own in it,
and she looks like she wants to look and acts
like she wants to act. And that hot guy Kian
who likes her. So it's for a woman, it's brilliant, right.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
I probably didn't clock that when I was watching. I
saw this in the cinema when it came out and
it was just it was fun. What's going to that point?

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Break?

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Everyone's in the same films. Everyone knows, you know, And
I imagine making a film like that, maybe it's easy
for ebody to know they're in the same film, but
I imagine that's something you you have to make sure
when you're directing that everyone is giving even performances.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
The tone is even across the board, and that's what
she's achieved Catherine Biglow. It's a punchy tone and she
just goes for it and that everyone's on board. And
again that marvelous character actor who plays the head cop
who yells at him and he's so great. I should
know his name too, but you know, he's just he

(32:59):
doesn't like it's not And Gary.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Busey, who's Gary Busey as well.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
He's so great in that.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
I holiday at Tolky every year and I was so
when I saw it, and then I was realizing, I
think they shot this at talk That was probably back
in the day when I when I thought, you know,
wherever they were they that's where they shot. John c
McGinley is in there, who's later seen in Scrubs. He's
really good yeah, really good and everything he does. All right,

(33:27):
let's get on to it. Let's talk about the film
you are here to talk about.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
You got to learn the role with ten punches. Yeah,
what are you getting so mad about?

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I ain't getting mad, joker, I've been mad all my
natural life.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
I'm just telling you the fact life.

Speaker 7 (33:45):
I don't want to hear it. I've been listening to
that stuff all my life. For my wife, be nice.
They thought me in solitary confinement that she said, be nice.
Man short with me when I turn in my crap,
She said, be nice, or you in trouble. She teached
my kid that seemed damn thing.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Never could get that woman to understand how I was
feeling insane. All of a sudden, there was nothing left
to see.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Dana read from nineteen fifty eight, directed by Stanley Kramer,
Oscar winning screenwriter Nathan E. Douglas gets The screenwriter won
the Best Cinematography for a black and white film. They
used to do black and white and color categories back then.
Did you enjoy the Fine Ones?

Speaker 4 (34:44):
Yeah, it was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
How good is it?

Speaker 4 (34:46):
Oh? It was just great. I really really enjoyed it
a lot. I got vibes of The Fugitive. Of course,
when it first started, I went on, this is what
the original Fugitive was that first? Did it come later?
It was very It was just so very interesting, and
the fact that it's a little bit depressing that we
haven't really forged forward with race relations much like we're

(35:10):
kind of still talking about the same stuff but really
showing it so fantastically well in that movie. And Sidney
Potier is astonishing.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Oh I love this a lot, and and I think, yeah,
you know, we haven't come far in racial relations, but
in other ways, I guess I guess we have. I
think they make this film now it's probably a comedy,
you know, I started Martin Lawrence and you know that's
true black you know. But I think it's worth pointing

(35:40):
out when they made this film, like this was a
tough film to make, and it was it was controversial.
The actors who were in line to play Joker had
to really consider, you know, whether they wanted to do this,
and that agents had Elvis Presley wanted to play the
role with Sammy Davis Jr. And oh wow, yeah, he's
manager talked him out of it. Brando was linked to it.

(36:04):
He was making mutiny on the Bounty, which had its
own problems and basically ran over time. So the casting
changes made, but Kirk Douglas Lancaster kind of dodged it.
But Tony Curtis really really, he was the one who
really wanted to play it, and I think he was
like more of a you know, pretty boy kind of actor,
and he wanted to shake his image, I guess in

(36:25):
a Matthew McConaughey Dallas Buyers Club kind of way, and
raised a million dollars with his then wife Janet Lee
to help fund the movie. And also one of the
really interesting things about this movie is that he initially
was going to be top billing with Sidney Poitier the
bottom of the title, and he said, no, like literally,

(36:48):
we are chained together. We have equal screen time. Literally
probably no other movie in history you could probably almost
down to the second that I have equals screen time.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
He's so right, because you can't make that movie and
pitch it out there and not have it like that. Yeah, yeah,
you can't. You can't be part of the problem as
the marketing if you're going to think it's no. That's
very clever on his part.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
And Sydney Poitier said it was the kindest thing anyone's
ever done for him as an actor.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Well, I mean it's for Tony Curtis. It's a no brainer.
It's you can't make that back then then I think.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
You probably could know who would have maybe blinked it back.
But I love it. When did you feel like you
were in safe hands?

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Was it from the get go? Yeah, I mean so
you've recommended it to me, so I'm kind of like, oh, okay,
this must be interesting, and.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, I mean it is.

Speaker 5 (37:34):
It is.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
It is a classic, and it wasn't nine Academy Awards,
so you know, you watch it with a bit of confidence.
It's not like every movie I've watched for this podcast
I kind of absolutely love, but this was this is
one where I like more people should know about this film.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yeah, it surprised me because you know, all those other
ones like talked about the last weekend and some like
it hot. You know, they've kind of got, you know,
to Kill a Mockingbird. There's all the Maram Monroe movies,
all that sort of stuff. It just surprises me with
someone like Sidney Poitier, who's so famous and his films

(38:07):
are remembered that we're not wrecking and Tony Curtis, we're
not looking at that as as part of the zeitgeist,
as part of the ether of old films to look for.
It's just surprised me.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Because the conversations they have in this movie are still
happening today. Like you know, I speak often of or
more recently on this podcast, that movie still feeling alive,
and they you know, they a good movie will stay
alive and it will even changing time. They're fluid based
on you know, watching Citizen Kane in the you know,

(38:42):
the way the media has gone recently, you know, he's
a different experience as it was was maybe watching it
one hundred years ago. And even Eyes White Shut, I
did that. We've had Cavali recently, watching Eyes White Shut
in the Shadow of Epstein and P Diddy is again
a completely different experience. So that movie for me has
changed over time. And I think watching The Fight mones
And was the first. I'm not saying that, but there
are conversations that having that you still feel, well, let's

(39:04):
have a listen to the conversation about words and the
meaning of words and what words UH can do and
what the white uh they can carry.

Speaker 5 (39:13):
Even when they didn't give me a tip, I still
had to say thank you. That word got a lot
two stick of needles in me every time I said it.
That can happen with a word, You know what I mean? Boy?

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, and I got a needle sticking in me right now.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Look at joke and don't call me boy.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Well, you're just too sensitive.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
Man.

Speaker 6 (39:39):
I'm too nothing.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
That's right. You're too nothing, that's right. But I got
a little advice for you, man, because I like you. Man,
you gotta take things as they are. You can't keep
fighting them unless you want to be unhappy. I see
you got a lot to learn. Boy.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Like you living in that fancy hotel.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, like me living in that family said hotel.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
You think they're gonna let me in that fancy hotel too?

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Sure, they're gonna let you in that hotel through the
back door. If you got a pail and a mop.

Speaker 7 (40:07):
And you through the front door just long enough to
collect your tip.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
What's eating you? That's because I called you in n Yeah,
Well that's what you are in it. It's not calling
a spade a spade. I'm a honky. I don't try
to argue out of it. You can call me a
bowl hunker.

Speaker 5 (40:25):
I don't mind.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
You're here, Tell of a bowhunk in a wood pige
your gud.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
You over here, tell her catch.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
A bowhunk by the tone.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Depends on how you mean.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
How you mean it like I said it.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
And I don't cry me because I didn't make.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Up no names.

Speaker 7 (40:41):
No, you breathe it in when you're born, and you
spit it out from then on.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
We then sure.

Speaker 5 (40:47):
Bugs you done it.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Well, that's the way it is. And you're stuck with
it cause I didn't make any rules.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Ah, that's you shall live by him.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Everybody lives by him. Everybody stuck with what it is,
even m.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Swamp animal, even that weasel.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
You're calling me a weasel.

Speaker 7 (41:05):
No, I'm calling you a white man.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
To hear these arguments, he's still here people saying, well,
I didn't make up these words. This is what. This
is the way it is. And the refusal to take
on the message that words have weight and history that
may not mean anything to you or that you've had
to live with, but you know other people.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
Have exactly, And the entitlement of the white person not
being affected as badly yea by those words because they're
in a different position. Even though and it's still not
enough for him. He still doesn't like the fact that
he has to say thank you. That's that he's not
getting as much as the other white guys. And I
think that's still a humongous problem that we're all facing
right now, and we're looking at the white men in

(41:51):
America trying to take all that entitlement back because I
don't want to give it up. But yeah, there's a
lot of like he just doesn't feel of those words.
They're not putting him down.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Well, he's triggered by the word thanks, likes something that
triggered him as a white man. You know, maybe as
a white man, maybe I wouldn't see maybe one of
the kind of words that exists. And he's triggered by
that because it means something different to him. Sure, But
but then yeah, when when put to Sidney Potier's Noah's history,
it fades in comparison, It really does. And the word

(42:23):
boy has its history as well with with African Americans.
And I don't even realize man kind of the way
we use man now was almost as it came out
of that like a w almost using it. I think think.
I think African Americans often used it as a way
of almost changing the conversation around and becoming man as

(42:45):
opposed to boys. But that and this this I think
movie wasn't responsible for that, but I think plays into
that a little bit.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Yeah, And I think the African American culture affects the
wider culture very very much on lots of levels. They
take things, change things, and becomes part of our vernacular.
But they're the ones that are doing it because they're
affected so much and they're taking the power back. But
it's so well written. It's just amazing to hear those

(43:12):
two men have that conversation and to the entitlement of one,
you know, and the true position of the other.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, and the challenges of having these you know, it's
a great premise having these two people time together, but
it comes with challenges as far as directing and how
do you make it interesting? How does it not feel repetitive?
And that comes not only with dialogue, but the situations
they find themselves in. It's almost like it's got a
road movie feel to it, you know, it feels a
little bit episodic as far as they get to, you know,

(43:42):
one town or place and have the confront at Lynch
Marb or you know a woman who's trying to produce
Tony Curtis. So yeah, it does have that feel. So
we start off and they escape and the cops are
kind of called in pretty quickly. Obviously, I wouldn't say
there are a crack squad of cops, No, and I

(44:03):
think they're only there. Really this thing remind us that
they are on the run. There was a part of
it I actually thought I wanted they're going to go
back to the cops. They're almost not needed. The fact
that they're chained together and on the run. We know
that the cops will be looking for them up only
they if we really need them. With that said, I
thought Sheriff Max, played by Theodore Bakel, who got nominal

(44:25):
for an Oscar, was a really nice performance.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
It also, which I don't quite get, there's that difference
between the police and the sheriffs in America and what
those roles are and how they're delineated. And we see
that even now with all the Black Lives Matter stuff
and where the police come from and what their headspace
is compared to the community minded sheriff perhaps and the

(44:51):
sheriff is much more kind of backfoot about it and
rye and in a different headspace, which, again, as an
Australian viewer, go, know this means something, but I'm not
quite sure what it is. There's subtleties in the nuance
of that culture within those cutting back to those those
men and the attitudes of those men toward our too leads.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
They're talking about shooting them like they were rabbits. Yeah,
and it's a sheriff who has to remind them, no,
they're not. They're not rabbits there, they're men. And he's
calling off the killer dogs, say the killer dogs when
they made me giggle when they cutlet of the killer dogs.
When they finally let them off, they look like friendly
dogs who they're this wax and mask on added some
rowling up in post production.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
Yes, yes, dogs can be time consuming. I had to
deal with a wolf once and oh my god, that
took some time.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Wolf.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Yeah, and a wolf in an episode of Handmaid's Tale,
and that was pretty tricky because that wolf was a
pup and very happy to be there, and I was
supposed to look really threatening. And they don't want to
They really don't want to I'm sure those guys were
the same. Those are dogs like.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Great, Yeah, it's extraordinary. So Sidney Potier, Tony Curtis on
the the rapids, there's some there's some really physical scenes
going on here. The I've heard Tony Curtis say that
the that the hardest was the clay pit scene because
they that was all then. They had no stunt doubles
and they had to climb their way up some you

(46:18):
know symbolism going on with the white man on the
on the shoulders of the of the black man. And
but the rapid scene as well, like Tony Curtis said
that he had a stunt double in one take and
Poitier had a dummy in a in a shot or
but I can't spot that.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
I could see it in the rapids. Yeah, but again
it might be the Sony Bravir TV. But I'm sure
you have one too, But you kind of because you know,
there's that shot in Face Off where the boat blows
and the two stunt men come straight for you on
them big white shot that's not that's not junto, and
it was a bit like that, but it was still

(46:56):
pretty close. So when I went why we touched the
front and it's the other guys, but only momentarily. But
what I'd loved about all that stuff what made the
film quite different, even though it is that has quite
a bit of dialogue, but it's really important dialogue. And
then you have those sections of just having to do

(47:16):
the job, the rapids the claypit, where they're not speaking
and they're kind of communicating and moving further in their
relationship without speaking by just having to work together to
get over these very physically challenging aspects, and that brings
the characters closer together that they they're trusting each other

(47:36):
and working together too, because they don't abandon each other.
They get through it, and I've found that really intriguing
in the storytelling.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Well, when they get the claypit, Jokers is bleeding or
he's risc a bit cut up from the trying to
pull nher up, and it's the first time there's a
little bit of I guess nursing going on on. He
puts a bit of mud on on his wrists. I'm
not sure exactly what that does, but he said, I

(48:05):
feels cooler, and then he kind of struggled. He says, thanks,
but you can see it's still loaded with his own
history with that word. I'm sure like when you know,
I don't want jump ahead to it at the end,
but I know, obviously he gets poisoned or something. I'm
not exactly sure that. Do you think that came from
just that, like the not necessarily the act of putting
the mud onto the wound, but like, is it just through?

(48:27):
When he got to the end, he was like, you know,
he's dying. I was like, where's that come from? Exactly?
I felt a tiny little bit shoehorned. He's shot at
the end, isn't he? So? Is that ben before before
he gets shot from Billy Billy the kid he's struggling,
and there's a reference with me maybe he's been poisoned.

(48:48):
And I wasn't quite sure where.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
Yeah, whether it's yeah, maybe it is from the suspicion
of that, but I've got to say I did not
take that might be something that's a historical thing.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
I wrote a story when I was in in year seven,
maybe even grade six, a war story because I was
obsessed with, you know, war, and and my cousin also died.
It's a bit sad. A few years earlier from leukemia,
and uh, he was always on my mind, and I
wrote a story and then and somebody got shot and

(49:21):
contracted leakemia from the bullet. From the bullet, my teacher
gave me a lovely right having. I said to say,
you know, I don't think you can get lakemia through
a bullet. It reminded me of that. It reminded me
of Stanley Kramer, or Stanley Kramer didn't write. But no,
Nathany Douglas going, He's just he's poisoned somewhere.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
He's poisoned somehow it is. Does it cast a light
on them? I don't think so. I mean to me,
I never took them. I took the mud as only
being a healing thing.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
So did I.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
Yeah, and it doesn't. And it wasn't a mistake.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Talking the frog.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Quite possibly it was the frogs they ate.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Yeah, yeah, world frogs.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
Yeah, could have been got to be careful. The world
frogs could have been a cane toad.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I think that's a whole kind of worms. Stay read,
but yeah they do. Yeah. The muppit is a is
a great scen There's also in the train scene which
we get to the maybe train scene at the end,
because that, yeah, that's getting a little bit too close
to the end. At this stage, they get to the
general store and they have to work out and that

(50:26):
you know, they're they're they're starving, they they need supplies,
and there's a there's a moment where they black Joker
up and it's I was watching it, and my first
thought was, is it a gag? Is it a you know,
like literally, you know, putting mud on his face, because
there's a reference earlier that Noh or Joker makes it

(50:49):
nowhere that you know, like certain certain light, you're you're
hard to see, and and there's all this stuff about,
you know, are you afraid of catching my color? Which
apparently was a real thing like people were in America
concerned about, you know, if you've got too closer. There's
a you know, little moments where people are afraid to
touch him. Billy's mother who doesn't get credited with the

(51:10):
name Man mind you Billy's mother. They give them both
a cup of coffee, and if you watch, just suddenly
she gives a Joker a cup of coffee, and then
she gives Noah cup of coffee, and then his hand
briefly touches her, and then she kind of gives her
hand a little wipe. So there's all this stuff. But
so at first I thought, are they just doing this
for a bit of fun. I think Sidney Poitier looks

(51:30):
like he was actually enjoying it. I think that might
have been some mad living going oh I missed a bit,
you know, all of that. But then I thought it's
probably them saying this is a moment in time when
for their adventure where the color of noah skin is
advantageous to them, perhaps for the first time. I'm not

(51:52):
sure if it completely holds up. By covering three quarters
covering Joker's face with mar Is making him, you know, incognito,
I don't know. I don't know, but but I think
I think that's the point they're trying to make outside
of just being a bit of fun.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Yeah, yeah, Look, it's interesting because I'm going, oh, yeah,
this is this, Like, is this they're getting away with
this because historically you could so now it's very controversial
to even do that.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, but I wonder if if it's because it's it's
nowhere applying it to Joker's face, I think that's very
different as opposed to is Joker applying.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
To his own face and the other thing of going
because Stanley Kramer would be a white man the director
and everyone's white, and whether or not it would a
black director or a black writer even do the scene.
I mean, we can kind of get really metter with
it is that thing of going. What you know, Sidney
Potier is going to be the only black representation on
that set. Yes, so yeah, I mean he's passed away now,

(52:55):
but we really I want to kind of go back
and research all that stuff now kind of I'd love
to hear what Sidney Potier had to say about that
whole process.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Well, Stanley Kramer is Jewish, and he did want to
He was really interested in the idea of racism and
the way people treated based on his own experiences. So
I'm not exactly sure how he gets to the the
fiant ones, but that was certainly his way in for him. Yeah,
from what I've seen, Sidney Potier and Tony Curtes only
have beautiful things to say about the process. They said

(53:25):
it was a tough shoot, but everyone was got along.

Speaker 4 (53:29):
And also very very groundbreaking of the time.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
It's like I said earlier, some actors they really had
to consider whether they wanted to play this civil rights
in America on TV, like that whole movement was really
only represented like in the sixties. This is like in
the fifty eight and probably mid to later sixties, I think,
you know, so this was really a groundbreaking for yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
Yeah, risk taking and really interesting. It is interesting that
this is the only Oscar nomination that Tony Curtis gets. Fine,
because again we'll jump back to someone like is a
year later, and you know, Jack Lemon gets a nomination
because Tony Curtis is bloody excellent, equally as good, yeah,

(54:11):
extremely funny, and you kind of go, I just wonder
why that didn't continue for.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Him because now you often you you have to be
nominated a couple of times, you know, and maybe if
he was that pretty boy actor and he got but
once he got nominated for this, he kind of surely
there's a bit of like, oh, we're paying attention now,
and he follows it up with some like at hot, okay,
you deserve another one.

Speaker 5 (54:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
It just that's the snub of it, and you kind
of thing, because it really is. It's a snub because
Jack Lemon and I think Marilyn Monroe get nominated and
not Tony Curtis, and he's there's nothing in that that's
boring about his performance. He's very very good.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
He's fantastic. It's fantastic. I mean, I do love Jack Lemon,
by the way, nothing against Jack Lemon, but Curtis should
be no one oated as well. That's right, Watsch A
little bit of this is a little side tracked Glenn
Garrick Glen Ross, which so it was way too late
for me to watch stuff. It was like literally maybe
like one third in the morning and I was just
finished watching something else and then that was on. I thought, Barger,

(55:07):
I'm gonna watch it, and what a film. So as
a director, speaking of nominations and all that stuff, when
you see a film, the most recent example is in
a Villain Nerve for done, like doing getting all these
nominations and then the director misses out, Like how does

(55:28):
that happen?

Speaker 4 (55:29):
I know, how does that happen? It's stupid.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Well they are they're making everything.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
Happen I know, and choosing all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
A film can't be nominated for like ten Oscars and
not be not be masterfully directed.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
It is strange. It's very strange that he didn't get
nominated and everything else does it is. It's weird, and
it happens a lot.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Remember happening with Bruce bris for with Driving the Staisy,
you know, and Jessica Tandy and Morgan from I think
We're nominated nominated for Best Film, I think one Best Film,
and the director isn't nominated. And because I remember whoever
was he might have been Billy Crystal hosting at the time,
he said, and Driving Mistake Daisy. He is nominated for
six awards and it apparently directed itself. And there's a

(56:12):
nausea back home. Yeah, Bridge Merris should have been nominated.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
Yeah, you wondered because it's so political. All that stuff's
very political, and you know, it's it's strange. I mean
the ones that get me is the Editing Award, because
I just kind of go, how are you judging that?
Because you're you're not sitting in the edit with us.
You don't know what that editor, the footage, the editor
had to deal with, the performances, the problems. You don't
know any of that. But you're kind of going on
and going, oh, the rhythm and this and that, and

(56:38):
you what, Yeah, it's very bizarre.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
It's such a good point, isn't it. With editing. Sometimes
it's what you leave out, Yes, that is.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
I mean, you watch miracles happen, and I always think
about the editor Jeff Lamb, who edited Sunshine for the
SBS show I did. And we were working with all
non actors South Sudanese community. There were no actors at
the time, and they were on basketballers and so we
were doing line by line performance stuff, line by line,

(57:08):
and then we're doing all that basketball and all those games.
And he slept under the desk and he was working
so hard, line by line by line, finding treasure, bringing
it all together. No nomination anything. Luckily, he was nominated
for a movie that year, so he was fine, but
kind of go. I do think he was. Definitely he's
right up there as far as the degree of difficulty

(57:28):
of pulling that together was just a feat. It was amazing.
So yeah, I don't know how that gets judged.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Chapter to an actor who we both know actually and
I know you've worked with him, and they nominated you
for some stuff recently able to pass us, say a
couple of years, and they were a bit, you know,
like just a bit bewildered and bemused that they got
nominated for some one of their projects but not the other.
And it's just like clearly that performance is better than
that one, and like and yeah, it's just it's completely ran.

(57:59):
Sometimes do go, I've photoed it sometimes, you know, for
for those things, and you do kind of you sometimes
do it within you know, in two minutes.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
That's right, I've got time.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, like that person.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Yeah, so it's interesting because yeah, the fact that that
movie yeah obviously educated itself.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Yeah. The lynch mub scene is a big, a big
scene where they so that they break into the general store,
goes awry. They try to escape, great jump, almost a
Simpson like jump out of the window. They land, They
land perfectly. I'm not sure you know that windows just yeah,

(58:37):
because it wasn't it wasn't like floor to ceiling window,
but it was low enough at them to jump through
land and keep running. But they do get caught and
a lynch mub gathers. The women and children are cent
away and then Sam set forward who fans of universal
horror movies will know that was long Cheney Jr. Okay, yeah, yes,

(59:04):
he it's a great scene. To get any thoughts on
that scene.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Look, I mean again, it's probably one of the most
tense scenes in it, and you kind of feel as
though you feel for Sidney Poitier because he's the one
that's going to be gone and that Tony Curtis will
probably survive it.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Well, he says, you know, he can't hang. He tries
a few things. He says, you know, we're we're convicted falons,
so they're going to come looking for us, and they
make the point, well, it's dead or alive. He goes, yeah,
but you know, there's a bounty and all that. All
that's up, and eventually he says, you can't you can't
kill me. I'm a white man. And Sidney Potier plays
it really well. Tony Curtis plays it really well as well.

(59:42):
He knows it's an uncomfortable thing. Do you think he
was that he had a plan or do you think
he was trying to save the sat Savy's own skin?

Speaker 4 (59:48):
It felt like he had a plan at that stage.
It really did a kind of you know, because they're
you know, are they still together at this point? And yeah,
they are still because I know there was a lot
of attempts to smack that thing, but I felt like
he was saving Sydney Potier well he does, so it
felt like I'm a white man like it kind of

(01:00:10):
subverted the heat of the moment by him being there
and saying that stuff. Because lynch mobs do it tends
to be a frenzy. Yeah, it tends to be the
whipping up and then it's you know, and all the
emotion takes it to the place, and his presence there
and him pointing out that stuff subverts. That's what it
felt like to me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Yeah, I agree, And we find out later when Sam
releases them in the cover of night that he is
a former chain gang, so yeah, they're representing. But I
love the speech he gives with it's you know, if
you want to lynch these men, you know you you
kill them? Do you want to? Do you want to?
You know, it's got the axe, you know, do you

(01:00:52):
want to chop them up? Do you want to? He
takes you know, the flame and the stick and do
you want to poke their eyes out? You want to
burn them?

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
You do it?

Speaker 6 (01:01:00):
You do it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
But that what surprised me. There's a willing participant who goes, yeah,
I'll do it, and he runs towards them. It gets
knocked out by Sam. But I thought that was an
interesting choice, and I thought, I mean, the scene is
still great and it works completely, but I did think
I wonder as a choice, you know, the scene works
without somebody going.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Yeah, but it is that interesting thing of what the
world is really like, and it's averting the whole Hollywood
thing of going of Sam's speech not working on everybody,
and and the fact he has to go thump to
a certain person. So again, even though Tony Curtis subverts
probably just pauses everybody for a second to not get

(01:01:39):
that frenzy, it's Sam who steps in and kind of
takes it to the next level. So it is the
world arguing with itself, and it's that thing of emotional
responsibility as opposed to emotional fire and just getting your
basis instincts taking over stopping a certain psychology. And he
thumps someone.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
He lands a good one, there's no doubt about that.
Let's have a listen to. They get to the house, well,
they have a fight and then there all of a
sudden there's a rifle pointing at them, and it's a
from a young boy named Billy, and good on them
for you know, resisting and and fighting back. And they
basically throw Billy Billy locked himself out, and I thought,

(01:02:23):
well done, well done. Yeah, but I was really happy
to see Billy Billy coppet. I think I was obviously
on their team at this stage. And it's beautifully handled
again because Billy wakes up and he's frightened, despite the
fact that these two are chained together. He's frightened only
by Noah, and he's he hides behind Joker. Yeah, he's afraid,

(01:02:46):
and he assumes that Joker is taking Noah to jail
to put it back to prison, which is again another
lovely touch. Takes him back to the house, where we
then meet the lady of the house, Billy's mother again
early and not credited as a character name, just Billy's mother.
But yes, this is where it all comes to a head.

(01:03:08):
There's some seduction going on. Did you like the I
think it's Ninett fifty eight symbolism for what's about to happen.

Speaker 4 (01:03:15):
But the hair coming down, hair comes down? You know
what that means?

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
You know what that means.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Look, it's again. My frustration with a lot of stuff
is the really shit representation of what women are and
what they want and the desperation and all that sort
of stuff. So in a sense, as a female viewer
for a lot of movies, you kind of go, oh yeah,
and you wait for it to happen. So and again
the fact that she doesn't even have a character name,

(01:03:42):
you just go, come on, folks, you're making a film
about breaking those barriers.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Billy got a name and it's just.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
Because he's a boy. And again that thing of going
reduced to just that and being more basically making Tony
Curtis attractive, because it happens so often for male characters
that there has to be someone there to be attracted
to them to make them attractive, and it kind of
was serving that purpose. So I kind of shut off
a little bit at that point. I kind of go, okay,

(01:04:12):
because it's like we were talking about with the science
fiction writers, that could be such an interesting, nuanced character
because it's that film they're doing that. I mean not
so it was her poverty and her desperation was a
real thing, but yeah, I kind of went it's an
endurance exercise for me a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's interesting when Samley Kramer can make
a film like this, it is so saying so much,
and it's it's a dangerous film and it's progressive, and
I think it's aged really well. Like even one of
the things we heard earlier and the end word is use.
When Tony K goes to say it, he gets cut off.

(01:04:56):
He gets cut off, you know, And I think that's yeah.
You watch you know, Blazing Saddles now and it's it's hard,
it's hard to hear so many times. So I think
it's it's age really well. But it's interesting that he
can serve have a blind spot to giving you know,
maybe the only female actress who gets nominated for an
Oscar give her her name, like you know, on the

(01:05:18):
on the in the Oscars campaign, it would have been
what was like playing Billy's mother's right not to have
a name to kind of speak about.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
It's just stuff for her. I don't know the name
of the actor, but of what she brought to it,
Williams to get that nomination because really it's again I go,
she's there playing the usual kind of stick for what
women were know, what you got to do, and there's
so much there's as much subtlety as everyone else is

(01:05:47):
playing that can be played by her at that point.
So she's terrific. But I mean that happens a lot,
that there's really terrific female actors out there turning those
roles into something. I mean, I know I mentioned close
encounters when we were off air, because that's the other
thing about Spielberg is not great with women either, But

(01:06:08):
Terry Garr turns that role with Richard Drevius's wife into
absolutely something in the hands of a different person would
be maybe forgotten, just wallpaper. But she's memorable in that
because she drags it into a world. So we see
that a lot. So I was kind of like, yeah, okay, right, yeah, okay,

(01:06:29):
this is my that's me. That's who I identify with
as a viewer. That's that's who I get.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
You get yeah, yeah. And her husband's away apparently for
three weeks. Because she has been there for three weeks,
I assume I see if she has usually get to
drive the car. I'm just joining some dots here, So
he's been away for three weeks, and she's not just
going to run away with this fugitive but drop the

(01:06:54):
kid off the relatives.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
It's it's interesting often it's just as of the female
just does plot things to move it forward for the men.
I mean, I'm going to keep talking about close encounters.
But Melinda Dylon goes on that trip for Barry her
abducted child, goes all the way there, does all that
stuff with Richard Draviers and with gas masks and bloody up.

(01:07:19):
The thing is almost there, looking down at that place
where the alien ship's going to come to, and she goes, no, no,
I'm going to stay here. You go, you go, No,
I'm fine, you go, And she doesn't go with him
down there to get her kid back. It's utter bullshit.
She ends up there later, but it's only so Richard

(01:07:40):
Dravis can kiss the girl because there has to be
the goodbye kiss and then he'll go. It just does
my head in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Yeah, he's so run about this. Female characters have to
being there for plot.

Speaker 4 (01:07:50):
That's right, She's doing all this stuff and you're can
go what she because if you are going to take
off with the fugitive, leave your husband, drop your kid off,
what is going on for you? And I think, yeah again,
you kind of go that's I know, it's only sure,
but you can be super charged. But people just not
thinking like that at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Well, I mean, I blame Catholicism, to be honest, I've
raised a Catholic, and I always wondered about this growing up.
In fact, I was writing kind of, you know, a
routine about it recently. Is the Holy Trinity? The Holy
Trinity is the Father's son and the Holy Ghost? It
should be Why isn't Mary in the Holy Trinity? She
did all she did, all the work. And the Holy Ghost,

(01:08:32):
which is you never throun through in the Bible. Oh,
it's a holy ghost. Nobody talks about the Holy Ghost
and the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 5 (01:08:37):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
It's a made up thing. They've made up a character
and bump Mary out. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
It's like Billy's mother.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Billy's mother. Mary got a name, that's Jesus mother.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
That's right, Mary got a name Mary because it could
have been worse. It could have been just Jesus' mother
the whole time, all this time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
So they they do their thing, they wake up next morning.
I'm not sure have you ever slept at a table
sitting down. That's a very hard thing to do, particularly
if somebody is two people having sex a meter away.
But well, I don't for Noah for being able to
sleep through that. Pretty tired, I guess, yeah, you could
argue that that he's pretty, he's pretty shattered, and there's

(01:09:19):
the cars, a great shot of them. They get the
car started, Billy's mother is convincing Joker to let's go,
you and me. I'm going to drop the kid off.
You know, it's just you and me versus the world.
You leave, you know, noahere behind, And there's a shot
of him in the mirror of the of the car.

(01:09:41):
It's a great job, it's beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
That's awesome, and again saying it without saying it and
just going, this is what's happened. This is where our
man is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
I could actually like I can understand, like the point
of me is like, oh, you bastard Joker, you know,
but it's also a part of me that when I
actually aught about it in okay, what would I do?
You're kind to go, well, how long are they are
they supposed to stay together? That's right, Like you can
actually understand Joker's point of view where it's like, yeah,
we've gotten this far, we are no longer chained together,

(01:10:14):
we may be more may be more of a danger
situation if we're together, which it proves to be. Yeah,
the argument I would make is if that if he
had have gone. He's free. But this is what makes
it a great roll of dilemma. But Noah's been told
to walk through a swamp where he will not survive.
So he chooses to save the life of Noah over

(01:10:35):
his own freedom.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Yeah, I mean, and to me, he was never ever
going to not make that choice because that's his journeys,
that is to go from you know what that speech
where he almost says the end word to that, that's
his that's that hero's journey is to choose Noah. So
he kind of had to, I mean, and that's the

(01:10:56):
reason why you'd take that role.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Yeah. Yeah. It's funny when you would see older films
and you kind of this comes up along this podcast
whe people will go, oh, now I understand all these
Simpsons jokes, and you know, like and I think so
Warner Brothers did a version of this movie with Sylvester
the Cat and somebody else with They'll handcuff together. I've
never seen it, but I saw something online referencing it.
But like you go, it is like Midnight Cowboy. This

(01:11:21):
is the end of the Midnight Cowboy, you know. So
you see all these influences and maybe there's something before
the Defiant Ones that this is. That's right, so it's
had to know exactly where they all come from with
that being across it, or maybe David Stratton knows, but
that's above my pay grade. So all up. You loved it?

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
Oh god, I will definitely watch it again. Yeah, yeah,
I kind of felt because again, with the way the
time goes, I would have loved to watch it more
time so we could talk about it in more detail.
But yeah, it's definitely it'll be a rewatch for me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Fantastic. I watched it twice this week. I loved it
both times, and I wanted good as many people to
watch it as you can the Defiant Ones. I watched
it on Prime Amazon. I think it's about to leave,
so see Just Watch is a great app by the way,
if you're looking for where to watch stuff. Just a
few fun facts before we wrap things up. Dana, the
tech advisor on this was uncredited because he was actually

(01:12:13):
a real life chain gang is KP and still a
wanted man.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
Oh my god, fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
I love that Tony Curtis received top billing. We've covered
that Brando one of the being this with Kirk Douglas,
but Lancaster, Gregory Peck, Anthony Quinn, Quinn and Frank Sinatra
or all people who were in line to play the
role of Joker. A couple of most of the fun
facts throughout the thing. The black and white cinematography was
done by Sam Levitt, and only three other films have

(01:12:41):
been nominated in the since They've gone to just a
one category of cinematography that have been shot in black
and white, and that is Shindler's list, and two more
recent ones, Roma and mank All shot in black and
white and received USCAR nominations for that. Dana Reed, this
podcast comes with homework you've done that. I appreciate that

(01:13:02):
you did mention to me one of the other films
you hadn't seen, which shocked me, and I was tying
with the idea which one do I go with? I
was grappling with a choice. But you hadn't seen Anchorman.
That's right, And as somebody as well Verse and who
makes comedy, who is so into the comedy world, it
shocks me. So I'm going to ask, would you come

(01:13:23):
back one day and do Anchorman with me? That would
be my pleasure of peak Oh, because you're a wil
Ferrel fanly, surely.

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
Yes, but it's kind of grown over the years. My
respect for Will Ferrell has grown and grown and grown
and grown and grown. And I think succession has fed
into all of that, and his relationship with Adam McKay
and what he has to say about the world. Yeah,
now I'm a massive, massive fan.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
I cannot wait to have that discussion. We'll get that
going soon, Dan Aerie, thank you so much. I've been
hoping we will have this conversation for a long time.
One thing I wanted to say actually about doing The
Define Ones with you was as I was watching it,
because when we made I Love You Too, and I
mentioned this Indusurry, you were such a great help, not
just with the directing and my acting, which was a

(01:14:11):
big thing because I had done anything like that before,
but the writing as well, because obviously, you know, directors
don't just come on board the week before we shoot
is pre production. But even then, I'm I forget how
long you were attached before we started filming, but it
felt like maybe a year or so lately, so you
were certainly part of it, you know, the scripting process
when I was doing drafts and tinkering with it, and
you not just with your direction, but with your help

(01:14:33):
with the script. I think you made a better film
than it was what it was going to be. And
one thing you and idea was all you. You made
the point that you need to keep these characters. So
for those who haven't seen it, what are you doing?
Come on. Peter Dinklish's character Charlie and Brendan CAW's character
Jimmy thrown together through a circumstance and we need to

(01:14:56):
keep these characters together for the story to work. And
I think the point where you looked at it, they
were just they had just chosen to be together, and
you said, no, we're not ready for these two to
become friends and choose to be together. You need to
have a reason why they are together. So we can't
with the idea of Brendan breaks into Charlie's car and

(01:15:17):
then he needs to be He owes him that debt
of fixing his car, and he's got his own postal
bike that he can he can provide some transport. So
that was that was significant and important for I love
you too, and it reminded me that this, I mean,
this film has that in Spain literally stuck together chained together. Yeah, yeah,
so I wanted to you know, acknowledge that, and I

(01:15:39):
thought of that as I as I was watching it.
Thank you once again, it's my pleasure. Yes, I love
the way that movie ends to by the way, Dana Reed,

(01:16:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, the fantastic Dana Reed. We'll be returning
to Yasney very soon to cover Anchorman and we may
chat a lot about her. The stuff she's done in
the stage. She's worked with the great Steve Corrall on
Space Camp upload The Handmaid's Tail, has done so many
great things. But I couldn't let it go that she

(01:16:20):
hadn't seen in command. So we need to remedy that
and we will coming up on you and See Nothing
Yet in the near future. Thank you for listening Yasney
Podcast at gmail dot com. If you have any questions
or thoughts, you can get on our speak pipe. Just
followed the links and ask any questions or have any
little bits and pieces you want to say or add

(01:16:41):
to any of the conversations you hear on you Ain
See Nothing Yet next week on the show we have
this is a big one. In fact, our guest today,
Dana Reed, helped facilitate this. One of our absolute great actors,
David Wenham, is joining us next week in the Yasney Studio.
David obviously has made so many great films from the
Boy's Mullan Rouge is in Elvis recently Lord of the Rings.

(01:17:04):
He made a movie many years ago called about twenty
years ago called Getting Square, and I love the film
and I think it's a film that not enough Assies
have seen. It's a crime comedy. You know too, Hansish,
you know if you like a setup in the Gold Coast,
and he was his character Johnny Spatiri is one of
the great comedy creations I think in Australian cinema. And

(01:17:26):
he told me a couple of years ago when he's
on the project that they're doing a sequel, which I
was not expecting, but it was welcome news. And that
sequel is about to be released. It's called Spit and
I've seen it and it is great. I really really
enjoyed it, and I cannot wait to chat to David
when I'm about that. He's three of her films and
a film that again I have not seen, and I'm

(01:17:47):
very excited. This is a film that has maybe as
much legacy, as as more legacy than most films. It
is from Robert Oltman. We are going back to the original.
We are watching Mash next week with David when and
movie that spawned the longest running sitcom of all time,
Robert Oltman Smash with David Wenham next week, and you
won't see nothing yet until then. By Finn out and

(01:18:19):
so we leave all Pete save Fan Soult, and to
our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant,
good day

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