REPETE: Todd Sampson and The Shawshank Redemption

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good day, Peter Helly here, welcome to you.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Ain't seen nothing yet the movie Podcast, where I chat
to a movie lover about a classic or beloved the
movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now.
And today's guests broadcaster filmmaker Todd Sampson.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Do you any think you have a chance against us?
Mister cowboy?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Open the pod bay doors.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
Help, I'll have what she's having happening right now?

Speaker 5 (00:49):
Don't see nothing new.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Todd's amsen is truly a unique voice and presence on
the Australian and that global TV landscape. Born in Ontario, Canada,
Todd made his way to Australia by our South Africa
and became the CEO of advertising giant Leo Burnett Australia.

(01:20):
It's this that lands Todd on this weird little show
called The Gruin Transfer with that good mate Will Anderson
and Russell Howkraft, a show that takes a deep yet
entertaining look into the world of advertising. Todd becomes the
breakout star of the show.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
And before you.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Email me, Will Anderson was already a star before Ruin,
So that's what I'm saying. Todd was the breakout star. Okay,
they want any fights, and Russell is awesome too. Todd
is intelligent, fun, his observation always nuanced. Todd co created
earth Hour, which I did not know. I've been majoring

(01:57):
for years. I did not know my mate cokoreer. Earth
Hour one of the biggest environmental initiatives ever, reaching five
and a half billion people around the world.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Todd has climbed.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Everest's Bloody Well climbed Everest. He's even scored a role
an acting role in the hit movie Lion Incredible. In
more recent years, Todd has been scoring big as a
filmmaker with his doco series where he puts himself in
insane situations like there are times I had to say

(02:31):
to him, mate, take care of you?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
So please?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Do you make me nervous just to come home safe?
He is like the bear Grills, but with a more
kind of sciencey approach. From readers on My Brain to
Todd Samson's Body Hack, they often extremely confronting the watch
and his.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
News series Merror Mirror.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Loved to Hate maybe his most terrifying one yet, because
it looks at how screens are impacting our lives, our homes,
and our brains. It is must watch started on Monday.
Please watch it, not just because my friends aren't doing
my show, but it's actually important television. I got to

(03:09):
know Todd because for a few years he was a
regular on the Project, and I love hanging out with him.
I love every time he was on. Todd someone who
he never takes himself too seriously. He's abundantly curious and
I'm bloody stoked to be hanging with him today.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
Hi there, My name is Todd Sampson. My three favorite
movies are Apocalypse Now.

Speaker 6 (03:40):
Charging a man with murder in this place was like
handing out speeding tickets to the Indie five hundred.

Speaker 5 (03:44):
Out of Africa, Ruislip Maidens, light Footland and Garden State.

Speaker 7 (03:52):
You gotta go bury this hamster before the dogs.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
E don't my help.

Speaker 5 (03:58):
And up until well up until last week, I hadn't
seen the Shawshank redemption.

Speaker 6 (04:04):
Rule number one, no blasphemy. I'll not have the lord's
name taken in vain in my prison. The other rules
you'll figure out as you go along. Any questions, when
do we eat.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
You.

Speaker 6 (04:27):
Eat when we say you eat, you shit when we
say you shit.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
And you piss when we say you pissed, You got
that you make it.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Take motherfucker on your feet.

Speaker 6 (04:38):
I believe in two things, discipline and the Bible. Here
you'll receive both. Put your trust in the Lord. Your
ass belongs to me.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Welcome to Shawshank, Welcome the show Shank. In the it's
time to get busy living or get busy dying. In
Frank Darabun's adaptation of Stephen King's novel Rita Hayworth and
The Shawshank Redemption, It's nineteen forty seven and main banker
Andy Dufrain has been found guilty of a double murder
his wife and the golf pro she was well, let's

(05:15):
just say they were playing around in the rough a
mild and measured. Andy gets sent the Shawshank Prison, housing
some of the most violent criminals in the state, as
well as old Golden Thomsons himself Morgan Freeman, who plays Red,
the only guilty man in shaw Shank. From there they
form a bond that for many movie lovers, especially for
some reason footballers, it is the backbone of one of

(05:36):
the greatest movies in movie history. It's rated number one
in IMDb's Greatest Ever list, ahead of Godfather Part two
and The Dark Knight. A genuine flop upon release, it
made seventy million off a twenty five million budget, but then,
amazingly it was nominated for seven Academy Awards, Tim Robbins
missing Outline and No. Surprisingly, the movie, however, does not

(05:57):
win a single one. Redemption is a classic movie about hope,
how it could be both dangerous and life saving. Todd Samson,
have you crawled through a tunnel of shit to be
with me today?

Speaker 5 (06:11):
You haven't listening to listen to explain it. It's an
indictment on me that I hadn't seen it until six
days ago.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well, i'd be really well, this is one of the
movies that gets requested a lot, and the reason we
haven't done it up until now, when it's one hundred
episodes in now everyone kind of has seen it.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
It rarely comes up your first.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I think that, and that's why I jumped on, And
you know, I think it's a perfect film, and I
kind of thought you would like it. We'll get to
that soon. But it's it's so revered, it's it's so lovely.
It is in the conversation of the greatest film ever.
Now again, we'll get we'll get to your your thoughts
on that, but it's much loved and why having you

(06:59):
seen it like as it did?

Speaker 1 (07:00):
It just not.

Speaker 5 (07:05):
Excuse. I guess my excuse at the time when I
try to think back to, you know, nineteen four.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
And then it kind of explodes in ninety five on videos.

Speaker 5 (07:16):
So I think I was probably and maybe I still
have now sort of swept up in many populous movies
and this wasn't so. All I remember reading were the
crip reviews when it came out, saying it's not that good,
it's boring. And I guess for me, cinema has it's

(07:37):
been a huge part of my license since I was
a child, but it's escaped for me, and I thought, okay, well,
I'm not going to waste that precious time that I
use in the cinema for a movie that people are
saying it's not good. Wow, what a mistake that was.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Morgan Freeman.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
It believes that one of the reasons it wasn't a
hit on release was a nine that people couldn't couldn't
get their heads around a name, which I think you know,
and you're a perfect person to ask about this with
your with your background, that.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
It is really important isn't it like when you see.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
And you love the Shawshank Redemption, it makes complete and
there's a great title after the fact, But when you're
when you know nothing about a film and you're looking at.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
It and kind of going, what what's shaw Shank? What's
what does that mean?

Speaker 2 (08:24):
And Morgan Freeman with how people say I saw this
movie Scrimshaw Resolution and they just.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Couldn't get it in their heads. It didn't float. Is
that how big a factory is that?

Speaker 5 (08:36):
Well that would have been a major part of it
for me as well. So you really only have three
things when it first starts. You have the name. You
have that the actors who are the brands themselves, and
then you have the reviews if you glance upon and
look at a review. And so for me, I wasn't
a massive Jim Robley's fan, so it's not like I was,

(08:56):
you know, wanting to see comps he was in. So
it failed on all three for me. Yeah, I was like, Okay,
well the name, I don't I sort of get another
prison Break film. You know, I've seen him before, you know.
And then and the main character, I was like, I
mean I loved Morgan Freeman, but I thought he was
a sub character in it, I assumed, And and then

(09:18):
of course the reviews were like, oh, you know, you
might be wasting your time, you might fall asleep in
the cinema.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:24):
Yeah, And you know what's interesting about that, about about
the pacing? Right, So, so now watching it now in
this kind of crazy tech, you know, low attention span
world that we live in, it was interesting challenge to
watch this film because it has this sort of languid pacing.
It's not there to pump it at you, you know,

(09:45):
the when some directors use this every three minute thing,
So every three minute there's some kind of change or
action to keep you on and on and on and
reversals and reversals. This has a lot of reversals, but
it's slow, and it really he is. I could see
why now has become popular, but I could also see
why there would be a generation to people that would

(10:06):
struggle to actually get through it when they can only
look at stuff on TikTok for thirty seconds.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, yeah, it's that's why Morgan Freeman's voiceover is so
important in this it's it's and lots of people have
different opinions on where the voiceover is lazy. I think
this is one of the really good examples of it working.
But set it does set a tone like you really
do need to settle in and watch your shape, particularly
for the first you know time, and maybe the second

(10:30):
or third time, and then you know, it becomes one
of those movies if you do love and if you
do respond to it, that if it's on TV, you
just need to watch it. If if Andy Dufrain's you
Know plan is about to be you know, announced to
the viewers, you need to you need a scene. No
matter how many times you've seen the film. We're going
to get to it very soon because I really want

(10:50):
to know all your thoughts on it. But let's talk
about your three favorite films. Let'say over Apocalypse now deal.
Joy Singer did this on our podcast. I watched it
for that episode without having seen it for a while,
and I watched I think we watched the kind of
recent the redo on it. I mean, the ambition is
there for everybody to see in that film. He's you know,

(11:12):
famously a troubled shoot. Nothing with nothing was easy, but
what a glorious looking picture and still like it's still
just looks like it could have been made last week.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
As inside I was when I was thinking about the
three films that I enjoy or films that my favorite
that have impacted me in childhood. For that time period,
it was between that and Debbie Does Dallas. But I
thought us cutting WI Does Dallas as a promo, are
working on it together, and this wouldn't work well. But
that had a massive impact on me as a child.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
But if you want to put deb Does Dallas in,
nobody has put W Does Dallas to be the first one.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
I remember shoving shoving the VHS in the recorder and
sitting back and with all my friends in the basement
of my friend's house and going, this is going to
be great. And then I also remember, like sort of
halfway through the film, feeling slightly uncomfortable that I was

(12:15):
sitting around with a whole bunch of blogs with baseball
caps and beer watching Debbie dost downs. Anyway, let's move
on to.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Now before you do.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Before you do, because I had a very weirdly similar experience,
not necessarily Debbie Does Dallas.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
But I remember somebody in our street.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I've got my brother Mark, he's four years older, and
it wasn't him, but somebody in the street got a porno,
you know, VHS porno, probably from the local milk bar,
you know, yes, under the counter, you know, he could
supply with one, and and so they brought it to
our house because both our parents were working, they wouldn't
be home for you know, a few hours, and all

(12:52):
of a sudden, like you're supposed to be. I only
found out because I was like, what's going on? And
because there's a few my brother had a few mates,
I know what's going on here, and he had to
tell me obviously, because you know, he had to explain
it to me, so so and then all all I
remember was like, then it's not word got out, and
then like people, people I'd never seen before started coming

(13:15):
over to watch this porn. I must have been like
maybe fourteen maybe, And I remember we had a table
tennis set up and people are lying on the table
tennis table watching in bean bags.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
It's watching this.

Speaker 5 (13:29):
Most influential movies of all time.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, I've never seen Debbie does Dallas, but it did
become certainly the the kind of reference point for pawn
and like a big, a big kind of comedic reference
point as well, like if you met somebody called Debbie
like your mind or often went, oh, you've been to Dallas,
you know, Like, I.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
Mean, there's no Oscars being awarded to Debbie does Dallas.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
No, No, sadly, sadly.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
It rarely gets reviewed on podcasts rarely.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
This could be the first time, this could be the
first time. But you want to talk about apocalypse now,
so let's go back to that.

Speaker 5 (14:03):
Yeah, there was something when I was young about the
that I enjoyed about the journey of darkness, Like I'll
never forget them going in that dark, like it's it's
night time and they're on the ship and they're going
And I also really love the inner dialogues, like I
love movies that play out the thoughts and and and

(14:25):
are written cleverly and smartly, and you know, and you
get to kind of go, oh, he's going through and
then when he arrives and you know, and Brando is
there and it's just I don't know, it doesn't get
better when the helicopter when they're doing the concert and
the helicopter company, and I mean, it's it's a phenomenal film.
And and uh, if you're a film lover and you

(14:48):
haven't seen that, well you're like me not having seen
I recommend jumping out Apocalypse now. But as you said,
stands at testa time, like you could run that film
now in a cinema and you would get a huge
I mean, there are obviously diehards, but if you hadn't
seen it before, like it would be a film that
you'd go, Wow, that's brilliantly made, it's brilliantly paced. It's

(15:08):
the music is sensational, the characters are well developed.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, And it's what's going about rewatching Apocalypse now is
there are so many things that are happening in the
background or some of those shots, so something like that,
there's helicopter crashes and this shit going on in these villages,
you know, in Vietnam, and you're like, what is it like?
And it's and with the first time you watch it,
you might be focusing on the foreground. But if you
go back and watch it and you're concentrate a little

(15:35):
bit on the on the background, like he's using the
entire frame every single time, that's.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
Right, And you know, then of course you can watch
out the darkness, you can watch the making of you
can see when you see that, then you realize that
the making is its own movie. You know, it's it's
like a phenomenal the things that happened. And yeah, so
that that that will go down as one of my
favorite films of all time.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
And also astonishing Todd that he's doing this with that
not only does he not have playback in the moment
they're sitting on film obviously in the seventies, so he
doesn't have playback, but he's not even seen the rushes
until he gets back to America, like and so to
have that and to deliver such a beautiful looking film

(16:24):
with the performances as great as they are is an
astonishing feat.

Speaker 5 (16:29):
And no real reliance on visual effects. Now everything is done.
I mean they're they're shooting up the land, they're blowing
up this there. He only got one shot at that.
Then nothing's gone, like and then you got to rebuild
and do it all again. It's yeah, it's and and
you know, he is such the director is such a character.
I mean he's like, you know, the stories of what
happened on the set and Brando getting pissed off and

(16:52):
walking off and not one again to film Dennis hof
I mean, you just couldn't have put a more eclectic
cast together, like basically putting them on an island and
saying good luck making this film, and they're all at
each other and.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, what was already going to be a very difficult
film to make and the tricky film to make, and
with the challenges that they had. Yeah, the fact that
there was so much misbehavior and drug use and health
crisis on that set was amazing. Usually that film ends
up being like The Island of Doctor Monroe or something
like that. The fact that it's a film that comes

(17:27):
up constantly in people's top three films is incredible. It's incredible.
Out of Africa. I don't like it when this happens,
but I haven't seen it, and you have seen it.
I've not seen Out of Africa, And well, I don't
remember seeing it. I may have walked through the rumpus
room while my mum was watching it one night. I

(17:49):
kind of have like the aesthetic, you know, and I
can kind of see it in a way, but I
don't remember watching it.

Speaker 5 (17:56):
No. Yeah, So I grew up in a small town
in Sydney, Cape Brighton Island on the east coast of Canada,
and I spent my whole time wanting to be somewhere else,
you know, wanting to explore the world. My parents never
went to school, so their horizons were very, very narrow short,
you know. And when this movie came out, so park

(18:20):
the obvious issues with colonialism. You know that this movie
talks about and demonstrates in many ways. I had not
really thought about Africa as a place for me to
visit and want to go to. But when I watched
that film, there is nothing I wanted more than to
go to Africa. And I ended up living there for

(18:40):
six years and traveling throughout and climbing throughout, and I've
now brought my kids back three times. It is such
a major, major, major part of my life, and I
can pinpoint the seed to that film. So Africa itself
is a character in that film. Is extraordinary music, which

(19:01):
I now play myself, and piano and things. I love
the soundtrack of that. And maybe it's my own issues
with intimacy, but I'm a sucker for love stories. I
always had been. My wife's like, she refuses to go
cinema to a love story. She's dystopian love stories, right,
And Robert Redford and Meryl Street. Yeah, it doesn't get

(19:23):
better than that.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, that is. That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's amazing that And we've had lots of people who
have come on the show and spoken about why their
favorite films.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
And sometimes it is just because it's it's awesome.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
You know, but there has been a handful of times
where people have been able to pinpoint the influence a
movie has had. So for you to nominate Out of
Africa as a life changing thing in a way where
it opened the door to a part of the world
that you'd never considered going to and you ended up
living there for half a decade.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
Yeah, then I went to Karen Blixen's house. I ended
up going to her house, the person who wrote it,
you know, the book and because it is it's an
autobiography really, and I went to her house. Yeah, it
was a It was a moment in my life where
I watched that movie and it bumped me into a
different direction. Now you could argue for me the same

(20:20):
thing when Greece came out. I didn't put it because
I'm embarrassed to put it down on the list, but
on this on the exact same note, Greece, on some
kind of subconscious level, dramatically changed my life. I remember
I watched that and knew very little. I wasn't the Hogan,
you know in Canada. I wasn't like Paul Hogan watching Crocodilder.

(20:42):
I saw Greece, and I saw Living in John and
I remember thinking Australia like it was the first time
the flag was placed in my head. And you know,
all the cliches and stereotypes that came with her character,
but it was the first time that the flag was
placed in my head. That alien might be an interesting
place for me to visit on my journey as a

(21:03):
kid who's hiding away in the cinema, you know, trying
to escape my volatile home life in the dark room,
trying to be alone with other people. I watched that
seven times. That and Empire Striped Back. I watched Greece
seven times. My grandma used to clean the floors, and
it was seventy five cents to get into the cinema,
and my grandma used to clean the floors. So whenever

(21:25):
she worked the weekend she worked, she would wedge the
bottom door of the exit and I would sneak around,
go in through the wedge door and just sit basically
in the front row and just crouch and I would
watch whatever it would come up. And I remember I
was targeting Greece like an empire strikes back, but I
was targeting Greece. I was like, Okay, I want to

(21:47):
see this, Grandma, can you wedge it for these showings?
And she would try her best.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh, I love that story. Can you wedge it, Grandma?
I mean that's a chatter in your memo ass some way.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
That is? That is amazing.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Where I thought you were going with Greece was, I
mean Greece kind of and I love Greece. Greece would
be in my top ten as far as like and
it's maybe one of the films I've seen, you know,
that Star Wars and the Sanda music as far as
maybe the films I've seen the most. Funnily enough, I
don't put three those three films in my top three,
but they're they're definitely my top ten. And I thought

(22:24):
where you were going with Greece was it opened this
idea of American high schools, because that's what it did
for me. I was like, American high schools seem kind
of fun, even though you know, you actually think about
there's a whole lot of shit going on. That's not
fun in that film, and most American high schools, but
there's this we did have this in Australia. I'm not
sure how different Canadian schools were, but the way the

(22:44):
cafeterias worked. Became a little bit obsessed with the way
American high schools function, and and the clicks and the
and the cafeterias and the you know, the cheerleaders and
you know that, the the football teams and I don't know,
it was something even like the letthermon jackets and stuff.
It was there's something about the red caps that they

(23:04):
alway seemed to drink out of at parties. You know,
there's something that that seemed really cool, even though as
an adult you kind of a lot of those things
aren't cool. There's I think, you know, clicks aren't cool.
You know, like eating ship food off a tray is
not cool. But yeah, it was one of those things.
And I think I think Greece was probably the first
one I saw which I thought American high schools yeah.

Speaker 5 (23:26):
Yeah, Well that is the difference, right, so that in
Australia you would look to that and look to that
with interest. In Canada you look to that with disdain,
not because it's bad, but just because it's American. Yeah,
So no, I gravitated towards Oliving John and that and
that I'd never seen crocodile dundee. So I had no

(23:47):
idea what everyone else was talking about in Canada because
that's the only thing they knew of when it came
to Australia, and that nothing else zero. And I lived
in Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada the Arc of life, right,
and I've lived twenty twenty six years in Sydney, Australia,
but all on my flag was her.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, did you obviously sadly passed away this year? Did
you ever meet her?

Speaker 3 (24:11):
No?

Speaker 1 (24:13):
It would have been a pretty amazing thing.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
To Yeah, too shy, you know, you know who I am,
right too, in like I would never go out of
my way to track her down. Yeah, but I followed her,
you know what I mean, Like I kind of tracked
what she did and you know, not that she would
care that she had an influence in my life, but
definitely bumped me, you know, she definitely bumped me on
a track, just like Meryl Streep bumped me on the

(24:36):
track for Africa. She bought me on that track for Australia.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
She I got made her a few times and she
was so lovely, as lovely as you would possibly want.
And if you had told her that story, she would
have would have touched her.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
I'm absolutely sure of it.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Gardenstite is a wonderful film, an indie film Zach Braff
and Natalie Portman.

Speaker 5 (24:59):
Yep, I did not so I okay. So the plot
is a very is a parallel plot to my life.
You know, boy with not much, you know, goes off
to the world and then ends up having to come
home to In my case, it was kind of reversed

(25:21):
because my mother was an addict, so I was. My
father was depressed, so I was kind of living. I
was coming home to that world. And I'll never forget seen.
And this is the reason. And it's a total emotional thing.
It's nothing to do with what it was actually about,
because I can't quite remember the details of it. When
he's standing on the van in the hole and he

(25:42):
screams and he just screams and screams and screams and
is crying. I was. Every time I see that, I cry,
And so that puts it in my top three and
I know it's a recent film, it's an indie film,
but and Zach Braf is not everyone's cup of tea.
But for some reason this it's beautifully shocked as well.

(26:05):
And for some reason this that it moved me.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
So is that is that? Is that like that moment
is at the moment that moment puts it in your
top three? Or like is it just obviously enjoyed the
entire film, And I, for god, I remember seeing when
it came out and I really enjoyed it, and I
remember buying on DVD, but I think I've only watched

(26:30):
it maybe once since then, and and I would even
kind of, you know, forget exactly what it was about,
Like you described it briefly about you know, him having
to come back and things having worked out. I remember
Nalie Portman wearing headphones in a waiting room. I remember
that scene you're talking about, and I remember really enjoying it,
and then I'm talking about it. I really would like
to go back there and watch it soon. But is

(26:53):
it one of those things where that scene that you
speaker with the yelling on the van elevates it to
a point where it's like, yeah, this is this is
my top three.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Yeah, I think for me, I'm drawn to three kind
of types of movies. One is escapist as best I can,
like Star Wars is the ultimate example for me. Yeah,
just leaving the Planet. I'm drawn to As I mentioned,
love stories. I think it's to deal with my own
issues with intimacy. So I like to watch other people

(27:21):
play it out and wish I was then. So I've
drawn to that that as well. But I'm also drawn
to stories that in some way parallel my own life
and experience. And that was one of the first ones
that I watched that was a kind of more contemporary
film that I went something, I went, that's me. That

(27:43):
sounds incredibly narcissistic, but I watched it and went, that's
kind of my life in a way, not exactly kind of,
but it was. And so I related to that. And
then when we hit that moment came screaming on the
top in the rain and crying and she's holding him.
I don't know, it just it just moved me. And
so when you said what are your top three films,

(28:04):
I didn't overly think it. I just went, what are
the films that have really moved me? And for some
reason that one did.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
And that's what you're trying to do as a writer
and the director then and the actors are trying to
create something where the audience can see themselves somewhere in
that film. And I think that's that's a very powerful thing.
And that's what I think everyone's trying to achieve when
they said that to make a film.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
So I love I love all those three films.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
About discussing all those three films with you, excellent choices. Absolutely,
let's get into it. This is a massive film. This
is right up there. It is a much loved film,
Like I said, number one on IMDb's all time.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
It was the most highest.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Rented video of nineteen ninety five, which which kind of
helped after The Flopper kind of more people saw it
on video and DV they and now streaming, I guess,
and they sort of cinema oppon its initial release. It's
the most replayed film on American TV still to this day.
Todd Samson, did you enjoy Frank Darabou's show Shack Redemption,

(29:17):
based in a book by Stephen King?

Speaker 5 (29:19):
It was wonderful and mesmerizing, Yes, And it was it
the fact that it was so good made me feel
so self conscious that I hadn't seen it, and as
someone who makes films right now for a living, I

(29:40):
tend to I struggled to stop looking at the how.
You know, how things are done in the pacing and
the music and the shots and where they're wide or
they're clothes where they you know. But with this film
you you get all of that. But the genius of
the director in my mind, is that he sets this
pacing in a on a closed space, so he lets

(30:03):
the characters lure you into their lives. He does a
few reversals, so you don't quite know where you're going,
but it feels like you're in a box with them,
and I love that intimacy. And you think it's two
and a half hours or whatever it was, so when
the time's over, you're like, wow, I just did twenty

(30:25):
years in two and a half hours, because it's a
twenty year span of their lives, you know, it's and
everything from the the fact that the main character, Tim
Robins is not the main character, the way he did
that by using Morgan Freeman to narrate. The reason we
associate and like Tim or Andy it's because of Morgan

(30:51):
and his interpretation of that world, which I thought, you
got two outstanding actors, but the way they used more
good Freeman, I thought, and and again the sparsness of it.
So they mute all the colors. It's all gray, and
then music wise they kind of strip. They use some
great musical moments, but the majority of the music is

(31:12):
that sort of soothing, melodic voice of Morgan Freeman, which
holds you for two hours easily. Yeah, sensational film.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, And you're right about feeling like you're in there,
and the clustrophobia of it and the colors, the grayness
of shaw Shank because every times have you noticed this
is probably something you know theyone notice in their second
or third viewing. But when you whenever you see out
outside of shaw Shanks, sometimes you're shooting from chaw Shank,

(31:44):
like when a good example is when Andy's being held
over the ledge when they're before they start drinking beers.
And we'll get through that scene soon. But it's always
green grass on the other side. It's always great. The
grass is always greener, and it's just such a beautiful
little time and there's lots of those little touches or
all the way through well it's talk about like when

(32:05):
we when we first meet Andy obviously, and I think
also it's it's it's clever that they're going to get
into it in a pretty kind of juicy kind of way.
There's this guy who's you know, uh, basically basically being
charged with double murder. He's you know that his wife's
having sex with the golf pro. It's you know, it
grabs your attention, even though it's not necessarily you know,

(32:27):
cut like really fast, and it's not like over the top,
and it's it's you are drawn in. You are drawn in.
You can go, Okay, this is is this our protagonist?
Is this somebody who's do you think Andy was was guilted?
You think possibly is? You know, because in a way,
when I mean when I first watched it, in the
first few times I watched it, I was always like, oh, wow,
maybe he is guilty, Like and then I the more

(32:50):
I watched it, and in the odder I get I
kind of see the reasons why he wouldn't be guilty,
not just from a story point of view, but also
there's things like you know, like yes that they say
they're his fingerprints on the on the on the the
bottle of bourbon that was left behind, and then and
the bullet casings.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
But there was no book.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
There's no fingerprints on the actual crime, like were in
the you know, in the cabin where they were killed.
There were no fingerprints on door handles or anything like that.
You know, that'surely that would have come out. There's no
footprints leading from the car to the you know, to
the cabin. There's things like that. You're going to go, well,
come on, Lauries, do your jobs.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
Yes, I mean it's deceptive, isn't it. So the judge
sets them up. So the judge so again unfortunately think
thinking about the what As someone who makes films, I
knew there would be an arc for him, But what
I thought was deceptive was redemption. So you immediately think, Okay,
he did it, and he's going to reneem himself in

(33:45):
the film. But it's completely not what's about to happen.
And I kind of had a hint to that obviously
when he just went the Like the first lines that
come onto the film are the judge, you know, condemning
it and saying, you seem like a cold hearted, you know,
kill it. Basically, that's what the judge says, to him,
and what the restraint of Tim Robbins in the film

(34:08):
is incredible, and what you don't know at that moment,
just that sort of introverted, thoughtful, shy, restrained character would
be the tone of the whole film. You don't know
that then, and then you realize that he himself is
a kind of in his own way, a kind of
metaphor for the filmmakers the whole film, you know, because
it all existed like that in the gray world, in

(34:30):
a subtle world, and you know, every once in a
while there'll be some sharp moments like the sisters and
rape or abuse, but the majority of the time you're
sort of just following this character who is not really
coming out. He's staying in and so you normally think
in an arc he's going to come out and be
something else. He doesn't really, He still stays within his confines. Yeah,

(34:52):
so I had a feeling he was going to be
innocent because I thought, Okay, there's going to be an arc.
They started so hard that clearly you know that can't
be it.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, you know, you still there is still an element of, well,
this is the little guy who was planning on killing
his wife, you know, what I mean.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
So it's still pretty murky.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Like you know, we spoke a lot about seventies films
and how they're more comfortable in making their protagonists a
bit grayer, you know, and playing in those gray areas
of their own moral codes. With films these days, you
tend to have even though the rise of the anti hero,
you know, has certainly been refreshing, but they tend to

(35:35):
keep the protagonists in pretty clear spaces, even if they
if they make him murky early on, they always make
sure it's it's clear that that was we were mistaken earlier,
where where the fact is Andy was in a car
loading a gun, preparing to kill his wife and her lover,
and that is irrefutable.

Speaker 5 (35:54):
Yes, so and then and that that seat of doubt
has placed early, you know, and that's how it opened.
And so you are thinking, and when he shows up
at the prison and he's stunk hold, you start to
think stone Kong killer. You know, you don't think that
there's anything positive in his nature. You think that, okay, wait,
now you feel for him when he comes through. But

(36:17):
I mean, the whole thing with they're taking bets on
who's going to crack first is just incredible.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Like it's as soon as I saw a character called
feed Ass or something, I thought it's gonna be hum.
He's gonna of course, the fat guy's going to break first.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
What always happens.

Speaker 5 (36:30):
Yeah, his arrival as a hero. I think. I just
love the switcher room, Like I love that he is
the protagonist. But Red, you could argue, is this big
or bigger a character? In fact? In fact, Andy's character
is told through him, you know, so it's his interpretation
of it. I do think, you know, Morgan Freeman got

(36:50):
nominated for Best Sporting Actor and Tim Brumms didn't. And
I do think there's a bit of a crime in
that because it was the culmination of the two of
them that made that film. But I sort of get,
I sort of get how Morgan Freeman would get disproportionate
amount of accolades and recognition for that film because of
the way the director twisted the storytelling.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
You and what did you? Yeah, let's away the friendship
because this is what I think.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
It's.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
White people love this film, you know, And I was
kind of thinking about going something we talk a lot
about is you know, comedy and drama, and is it
a comedy or is. I'm not saying that anybody says
Shaw Shanks a comedy at all, but in fact it's
it doesn't have many laughs in it at all. But
what it does to have, I think is an ability

(37:38):
to make you smile. Well, I think I find myself
I smile a lot when I'm watching Shawshank. I'm not
sure if I have a laugh, but I smile a lot.
And that's we don't really talk about that. Yeah, it's
either make them laugh or make them cry, you know.
And I think that a film that is content in
making you smile is it's a very powerful thing.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
Yeah. I mean there's a want in friendship in general
that we all want, you know, and the fact that
that developed over hardship. And but there's a weird distance
that Morgan had from him because of the way he
was narrating it. At times I felt that he wasn't
being kind of a true friend to him, for example

(38:22):
with the sisters, and you know, Morgan doesn't offer any
protection at all. And Morgan Freeman or Red is the
fixer of the prison, so he can't can and make
things happen and can do things with cigarettes for people.
He can do, but he doesn't do this. It is
almost as though he lets the you know, the inevitable

(38:43):
rape or you know, abuse, He narrates it and then
it kind of happens, so that there is an interesting
dynamic from the director's point of view where his best
friend is the narrator of the film, which creates a
little bit of a distance, where in most films that's
not the case. Most buddy films, there together completely, one's
not commenting necessarily on the other. They're in that journey together. Yeah,

(39:05):
this had that weird distance that that I liked.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I enjoyed the one thing I say about the voice over,
which I hadn't I hadn't really clocked. And this is
the wonderful thing about doing this podcast is you watch
a film knowing that you're going to talk about it.
So I tend to watch it a little differently as
and I've seen this movie many many times, I'm not
completely sure the voiceover, the way he talks, and the

(39:32):
almost the poetry, the way he talks matches up completely
with the character that we've met at Shawshanky. He almost
is awesome wells you know or when Oscar wild yes
you know, which you don't really hear red talk like
that is more plain speaking than that, and it's never

(39:54):
bothered me. It doesn't even bother me now. But I
did notice it this time around.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
Yes, because as you know, someone who makes films, you know,
there's the narration of the film that would have been written,
and then there's the character lines of the film. Ye,
and he smashed both into one and you can clearly
see them as they're separating. But with that said, Morgan
Freeman did play convincingly a kind of father figure role

(40:22):
for everyone. Like if you notice the framing, he was
almost inevitably framed in the middle. He almost inevitably framed
people around him, I mean part of the framing. As
you know, the major issue that that film had was
Tim Robins height. Yes, fine, you know it's like it's
the reverse of Tom Cruise movies, you know, where they're
recruiting small people from around the world. They couldn't get

(40:44):
tall people to matter.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
But I was gonna make that exact point is why
you've never seen Tim Robins and Tom Cruise act in
the same movie, Like it will never happen. And if
you go back and watch it, and I encourage you
check it out. Tim Robbins is almost always either crouching
down or leaning over, you know, coming out from behind
Morgan Freeman. They're watching Rita Hayworth, you know, and it's

(41:08):
it's it's very cleverly done because he is he is
when they line up, when they all line up with
the scene that we played before, that's one time where
you can see how tall Tim Robbers he's compared to
the other prisoners.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
So so on that point that you make about the
disconnects between the sort of sophistication or poetic nature or
the writing of the narration of the film versus the
actual character. Where I think Morgan Freeman gets away with
it is the melodic, soothing tone of his voice. He
could say anything and it will have that sort of
poetic sound. And he does speak like that in his

(41:39):
character as well, you know, not just a narration like
it's just not as sophisticated, but it's the same feel,
that sort of that sort of moving voice that he has.
You know that it's I mean, it's an exceptional tool.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Oh it is a tool, so Frank dearbon he he
this is one of his first films. I think I
think he made a horror film called Buried Alive. He
done some work on I Think the Fly Too and
some other and he was keen to get out of
horror films. He made a short film called The Woman
in the Room, which is based on the Stephen King

(42:15):
short story, and so that's how he gets in it
with Stephen King.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
So he was keen to get away from horror.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
And and the character of Red in the book is
he's white. He's an Irish, old, Irish white guy like
Clint Eastwood is up for this role Paul Newman Redford.
And that's why there's that great, uh, great line in
the movie why do they call you Red? And he goes,

(42:44):
because I'm Irish, And it's it's it's played as a joke.
It's it's lovely because it works even if you don't
know that something well I only knew that stuff that yesterday,
but it's it is brilliant. But Frank Darabine he would watch.
He was he was nervous about it. So he would
watch Goodfellas every Sunday just to kind of not only

(43:04):
from it an aesthetic point of view, but more so
with the voiceover, because that is also one of the
great voiceover films of all time Good Fellas, and so
he would watch that just to make sure that he
was doing the right things and on the right track.
And you could argue that those two films, you know,
maybe even Apocalypse now that now that you mentioned it earlier,
three of the great narrated films, you just.

Speaker 5 (43:27):
Raise something now that I never thought. I did not
think about, but now sort of My fourth reason for
having never seen this film is my mom used to
watch horrific horror movies like every night as her form
of escapers, you know. And so I would be in
my bedroom and I will be listening to Chainsaw Massacre

(43:50):
and I'm into the horror and UNI any any butcher
chop slice. So I have a real version of horror
movies I don't get the idea of because from the
brains perspect what you see, your brain experiences. So if
you're seeing death, violence, and you know, on horror, your
brain is in its sympathetic response. It's responding to it.
That's why people love it. Right you're you are really

(44:11):
feeling it. So I've had a block on horror, and
I now that you say that. When I think back,
Stephen King probably was like a red flag to me,
like as soon as I read it was a Stephen
King film, it comes with all the you know, all
the negativity and all that stuff, the horror. I just
blocked it and said, I'm not watching that.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
That's so interesting because Castle Rock, the distributor, they they
made sure Stephen King was not on the poster that
they did. They made no effort to kind of tie
it to Stephen King. Obviously when it comes out, you know,
reviews and and and you know articles mentioned that because
it's not their job to hide that fact. But yeah,
I think at the time the actors were almost told

(44:54):
don't don't tie to Stephen King.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
They didn't have Stephen King to do any publicity for it.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Like I said, not on the poster.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Usually, you know, somebody who's huge Stephen King would have
based on a novel by Stephen King.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
None of that, none of that.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
And it was it was because they did not want
for that exact reason for people to think that this
is a horror film.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:14):
Yeah, and when you sh shank Redemption could have like
shanks cutting people open and slicing and dicing people, it
could be a Stephen King film. Anyway, that was my
mistake for not watching it, damn you, Stephen King.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Well, now we have this glorious moment and this conversation.
Now to thank Steven King.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Four.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
The what's also great about Red and Andy. They're very
it's very clever, and it's very subtle. But they are
quite opposite men, you know, not not necessarily in every way,
but they are you know. One, you know, it's ready seen,
you know, admits that he's the only the only guilty
man in shaw Shank because everyone's family innocent. And then
we find out that Andy actually is probably the only

(45:55):
innocent man in shaw Shank, you know. And and the big,
the biggest thing is that they the Hope thing, which
is what this movie is about one.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
And which is what I loved about it.

Speaker 8 (46:06):
Yes, there's something inside that they can't get to it,
they can't touch.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
It's yours. I'm talking about.

Speaker 9 (46:21):
Hope.

Speaker 5 (46:23):
Hope.

Speaker 10 (46:26):
I'm gonna tell you some of my friend. Hope is
a dangerous thing. Hope and grab a man in the scene.
It's got more use on the other side. I'm better
get used to that idea, like Brooks did.

Speaker 5 (46:49):
So beyond them making the technical aspect of the film,
which I love watching, you know, the pacing and the
music and the grade and the you know, the characters,
the theme of hope, and the fact that you have
a buddy film where people are coming out of two
different viewpoints. You know, on the one side, you've got
Morgan Freeman who sees hope is something to be scared of,

(47:11):
that that hope can, as he says, drive you insane
when you're in prison. You know that it's a bad thing.
And then you got Andy or Tim Robbins coming in
saying hope is everything you know and without it you're gone.
And then possibly my favorite part of the film had
nothing to do with any of those characters.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
It Brooks, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:33):
James, whatmyer like like because he then encapsulates both ends
of the hope spectrum because on the one hand, he
gets released and so he has all of it in
front of him, and on the other hand, he has
none of it.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
And it's it's so important because this movie is also
about what institutionalizing men will do. When you put men
in the cage and you strip them of hope. What
happens and Brooks serves the right wait you think for
the movie because it's a it's a it's an example
that we say what happens when somebody loses hope and

(48:08):
has no hope. Let's have it to listen at them
talking about Brooks being institutionalized.

Speaker 11 (48:13):
But I'm telling you, these walls are funny, rath to
hate them.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
And you get used to.

Speaker 11 (48:22):
Them enough time passes, you get so you'll depend on.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
As institutionalized shit you can never get like that.

Speaker 9 (48:36):
Yeah, So that when they've been here as long as
book says.

Speaker 11 (48:41):
God damn right, they send you here for life. That's
exactly what they take part of counts anyway.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
So that's the same like this is when they worried
about Andy, but it's in the shadow of Brooks's That's
why it's important that that happens, because they do a
really good job and we've got to touch on it
the flour of like, you know, the you know, they're
not having enough doubt that maybe Andy is guilty and
and and then maybe he will later on, maybe he
will not make it through, maybe he will take his

(49:18):
own life, you know. And they do a really good
job of going even though there's a part of our
brain that probably knows it doesn't but it's probably not
gonna happen because this is a movie and they're really
going to have Andy kill himself, but they do a
good job of going like taking you to the edge
of thinking, yeah, maybe maybe.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
But what jumped out at me in that scene, and
it was the same thing that jumped out at me
when Morgan Freeman or Read was released, was the other
sub theme that's going on in this is fear and
the line both lines jumped out at me hugely in
Brooks a scene, Brooks says I'm just tired of being afraid,

(49:59):
and then exact same thing happens to Morgan Freeman. He says,
I'm just tired. I'm sick of being afraid, and the
whole notion that they're afraid on the outside but not
on the inside, where for most people, including me, have
this sort of deep innate fear of prison. You know,
all this sort of containment and this, all the negative

(50:22):
things you've seen, everything that would been conditioned to believe,
but their greatest fear was just existing on the outside.
I mean, that just blew my mind. I was like,
as soon as I heard them both say the same line,
I thought, Wow, there's another sub theme about because we
get it the obvious fear with the sisters and the rape,
and you know, and bad things are going to happen.

(50:42):
But that level of fear, this sort of existential fear
of existence in the real world once your humanity has
been stripped from you, is a really big concept. You
know that you're just going whoa, and and and then
you know, and then of course the suicide, and then
and then the misdirection of Morgan Freeman's potential suicide as well.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's it's so and watching
it again and I haven't so many times, but knowing
that I was going to talk about it, and there's
things that you just you know, and this is how
you're supposed to watch films. You're supposed to in a
way just let things wash over you and that they'll
they'll work away in the way that you don't maybe
would never have to articulate, but the way they play

(51:24):
with hope and that you know, I can see now
why and even with the sisters, you know why that's
important because yeah, that's like a visceral kind of fear
that they have.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
But then there's this's all this other underlying fear that has.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
To play out more slowly, you know, And and it's it's
it's so beautiful and they have to you know, they
have to break Andy, you know, both physically and mentally.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
And it's not just for the story, but it's also.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
For the theme, you know, the impact of being institutionalized,
and that any an he needs to keep hopeless, you know,
because what does It's the one thing he has that
Brooks never had. And then so if we consider that
Andy has hope and Brooks lost hope, it puts Red
right in the middle of that. Well, isn't it the

(52:13):
fork in the road. He's either gonna you don't give
up on hope and we know how that ends with Brooks,
or he's going to choose choose hope and we don't.

Speaker 5 (52:23):
Know what was Yeah, but you think he leans more
towards Brooks, which was the reason that they introduced Brooks, right,
because you're going, okay, well, he's also institutionalized. In that
conversation where they're sitting there, Red and Andy speaking, and
that's when they have the whole conversation, that's when you
really realize that these people are on the opposite sides
of that fence. But what the sort of mind blowing

(52:46):
thing for me with that was that Brooks was happy
on the inside. Yeah, Like, so his loss of hope
happened on the outside.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yeah yeah, yeah, like because.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
His whole character was positive. He had a friend, he
had the birds, he was like smiling, he was delivering books,
he had purpose, he had he was happy.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (53:10):
No, you could say, oh, you know, his life was
stripped away from him, but you can also say that
he was given a life in there that he was
happy with. It was his release where he lost hope.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
And of course you are now foreshadowing to what happens
to Andy, you know when when in his.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Release, Yeah, did you think, oh, we'll come back to that.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Actually, I spoke about they every film you need to
take you know, your your hero, even though like he said,
I think I think you're right in the in the
this is really red story in a way, but they
do need to take Andy. They need to try to
break him, you know, mentally, emotionally that you need to

(53:53):
put your character at rock bottom. And and and they
did this in such a fucking great clever way. And
I want to walk through a few seconds as of
how this happens. When we when Tommy arrives at Shortshank
and is a young hot shot and he teaches him
how to read and then it.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
Was originally going to be Brad Pitt by the way, Yes, yes,
which is remarkable.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yes, I mean it's an amazing casting will come back
to that. This is Tommy joining some dots here. And
then we go into the confession made by a former inmate.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
One time bust and tables at a country club. So
he says, I got me this job one time busting
tables at a country club so I could case all
these big rich pricks that come in. So I pick
up this game going one night in do his place.

(54:52):
He wakes up gives me shipped. So I killed it
him in this tasty pitch he was with. It's the
best part. She's fucking this pricksy golf property there. It's
some other.

Speaker 11 (55:12):
Guys, some hotshot banker, and he's the one they'd been.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yeah, it's it's I'll tell you what. I forget the
actor's name, but he makes the most of that for
it is like you completely believe that he is telling
the truth in that moment. So so this happens. It
gives Andy hope, It gives us all hope. Ah, this

(55:51):
is this is going to this is what he needed.
He's the only as a man who's jaw shank. And
then so they take it to the Warden, who we
have sparking about him. We'll speak more about him, Warden
Norton played by Bob Gunton. Both him and Red Guard
to him and with the good news.

Speaker 6 (56:07):
It's obvious this fellow Williams is impressed with you. He
hears your tailor woe and quite naturally wants to cheer
you up. He's young, not terribly bright, not surprising. He
wouldn't know what a state he puts you in.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Sir. He's telling the truth.

Speaker 6 (56:24):
But let's say for the moment this blatch does exist.
You think he just fall to his knees and cried, yes,
I did it.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
I confess.

Speaker 6 (56:33):
Oh, by the way, had a life term to my sentence.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
You know that wouldn't matter.

Speaker 12 (56:37):
With Tommy's testimony, I can get a new trial.

Speaker 9 (56:39):
And that's assuming latches.

Speaker 6 (56:40):
Even still, there chances are excellent he'd be released by now.

Speaker 8 (56:43):
Well, they'd have his last known address, names of relatives.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
Is it a chance, isn't it?

Speaker 7 (56:50):
Can't you be some tooth?

Speaker 9 (56:55):
What did you call me a tooth?

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Is it deliberate?

Speaker 9 (56:59):
Son? You're forgetting yourself.

Speaker 8 (57:00):
The country club will have his old time cards records
W two's with his name of Rye.

Speaker 6 (57:06):
If you want to indulge this fantasy, that's your business,
don't make it mine. This meeting is over, sir.

Speaker 12 (57:12):
If I were to ever get out, I would never
mention what goes on in here.

Speaker 8 (57:15):
I'd be just as indictable as you for lundering that money.

Speaker 6 (57:19):
Don't you ever mention money to me again? You sorry
son of a bitch. Not in this office, not anywhere.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Get in here.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Now.

Speaker 12 (57:26):
Let's just try to set your mind at his that's all, sir.

Speaker 6 (57:29):
Solitary a month, Yes, sir, what's the matter with you?
Get him out of here?

Speaker 13 (57:34):
Someboke says to get out. But you see that's.

Speaker 11 (57:37):
Understand get.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
I mean it's it's so brilliant, the rollercoaster you're going
on as an audience man. But when you think when
Tommy comes and says, oh no, he's he's innocent, and
you believe I said, we believe that he's in that
that that prison night, and then for this to happen,
which once it happens, you're gonna go off.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Course.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yeah, this ward needs him. It's a hell of a rollercoaster.

Speaker 5 (58:04):
Yeah, and there's only two stories, I think, two stories
that are complete stories within the main story. One is Brooke,
you know, and you need him because he shows what
happens when you really lose hope and it all said
and done, So you need that to have that juxtaposition
between which choice are those two main characters going to make.

(58:25):
And then Tommy and Tommy's role as the beginning, middle,
and the end, and Tommy's role is to introduce the
innocence of it, but also to just amplify the the
evil of the warden and the evil of the whole system,
you know. And and Tommy does that in I mean,
Tommy just enters kind of out of nowhere, doesn't He

(58:46):
just comes in, His whole story is played out, and
he's dead.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah. Absolutely, And and it really is evil.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
I mean, we got to know, we know they're bad,
but I think it's it's what happens now that we'll
have a listen to that that that puts it into.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
The evil, pure evil category. So this is.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
And he's in the hole. Warden Norton calls for a
meeting with Tommy, and again, what a rollercoaster. We think Okay,
maybe the ward is going to help out, and let's
have listen what happens.

Speaker 6 (59:25):
I'll tell you something. This thing really came along and
knock my wind out. It's got me up nights. That's
the truth, the right thing to do. Sometimes it's hard
to know what that is.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Do you understand?

Speaker 9 (59:48):
I need your help, son. If I'm going to move
on this, there can't be the least little shredded out.
I have to know of what you told to Frank.
What's the truth?

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Yes, sir, absolutely?

Speaker 9 (01:00:04):
Would you be willing to swear before a judge and
jury having placed your hand on the good Book and
taken an oath before Almighty got himself? Just give me
that chance.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
That's what I thought.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I mean, I've seen these film many times. How did
you feel watching it? Yeah, in the last six six
days when you first with that happened.

Speaker 5 (01:00:43):
Ah, by that stage, I already hated this guy. They'd
already done their job. Yeah, you know, establishing him the
hypocrisy of him up front talking about dolbino blasphemy and
you know, the Bible and his belief system, and then
to just unpick that throughout where he's swearing and money
laundering and assaulting and all. So at that stage I

(01:01:04):
was really hating that. And and it was one of those,
you know, good storytelling things where his death was inevitable
but unexpected. You kind of know this is not going
to play out, but how are they going to get
rid of them? It was dark. I mean, it was
so the director, I think when public saying that this

(01:01:25):
was not meant to be some kind of subtle exposition
of prison systems, but on many levels it was the
cruelty and the freedom that they have and the lawlessness
that exists ironically within a prison system. Yeah, I thought

(01:01:46):
it was horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
And what it does it challenges even the audience to
keep hope because it basically it drains when Andy's got
the most hope that he's ever had since being short
of getting out, and it challenges the audience now to
keep can you keep your's our hope going to die
with with with Tommy? Because because this was this was

(01:02:09):
and he's taken out and and and and we were
on board with that, and now it's been snuffed out.
And so not only does it tests and he's resolve
and and and and hope, I think it also tests
the audiences, which is. I think is is really really clever,
but I mean, I think we are discussed.

Speaker 5 (01:02:29):
I also loved the symbolism of of the kind of
like like the Bible and rock camera, and like like
the fact that that it was hidden in the Bible,
of which the warden was all four but yet all

(01:02:51):
against it. It's just so brilliant. And now they swing
back at the end.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Did you notice what page? What chapter in the Bible?
The page was?

Speaker 5 (01:02:59):
Yeah. I paused because I was watching it. I watched
her twice, right the first time I watched on television
and because I just want to see that's what. And
the second time I watched it by computer. And when
I got there, I paused because I was like, First
of all, I just paused because filmically, I was wondering,
is it the rough shape of the thing, you know,

(01:03:19):
I was just wondering if they took the time to
do it properly, which they did. But while I was
looking at it, I was like, oh, fuck, it's on excident. Okay,
all right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
And we did an episode recently with Glenn Robbins with
one flew over the Cookie's Nest and we spoke about
Nurse Ratchet a bit who's sadly. Weirdly, the week after
that episode came out, Louise Fletcher sadly passed away.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
And I think such a great performance in that movie.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
And you could argue about the kind of how evil
was she was She just a woman trying to do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Her job at like a tough job, you know, And.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
I think she's whether she's evil, but I think she
abuses her position in that in that movie where there
is no doubt about the Ward and and and Hadley
they are they are evil. There's even references the book burning.
It's so clever that and he's trying to introduce art
and color to Shawshank through the beautiful record playing scene. Yeah,

(01:04:21):
that scene at the moment you know they're knocking on
the door and you know he's gonna get He knows
he's going to get beaten. Certainly if he doesn't open
the door, he's going to get beaten.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
And he leans in. You think he's going to turn
it off, but he turns it up.

Speaker 5 (01:04:33):
Is and what a brilliant line from Morgan Freeman or
from Red and he says for a moment, we were
all free, you know. Yeah, Yeah, that's one of my
favorite moments in the film.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, and the fact that he is introducing the opening
the library and he's getting books in. I mean, you
can look at Shaw Shank as a you know, a
riff on on arts funding, you know, in a way.
I mean you've got the conservatives who who you know,
are only using it because it kind of it helps

(01:05:03):
and you know, it helps them make more money. But
you know, whenever it's just about enlightening people and inspiring people,
then they're not for that at all.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
But it's funny because it's another theme, isn't it.

Speaker 14 (01:05:15):
So you've got you've got you've got hope, you've got
love and camaraderie, you've got fear and loneliness, and you
got this persistence and resilience.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
I mean, the whole idea when he pulls out the
rock erm and he says, oh, to escape, you'd need
six hundred years with that thing, and and the fact
that it's all being chipped away at. And when he
does the the library, you know, he writes two letters
a week and he continues to do that for six
years or something. I mean, it's just it just shows
the the you know, kind of well known cliche. Now

(01:05:49):
if you don't. Half of it is getting up, you know,
half of it is showing up, and half it is
just keep going, keep chipping away, pardon the pun in
his case. Yeah, you know, and like perseverance and you know,
not letting go completely is a major theme in this
that there's playot so literally in that he you know,

(01:06:09):
chips his way out.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
One of one of the great scenes, which which I
probably should have mentioned earlier because we're probably past this point,
but it'll be it'd be wrong not to mention it
because I feel like it's this. It's a scene where
Andy finds his feet in share shank, which is the
the beers and the roof, and it is it's a
beautiful scene. It's a great scene. We have them doing

(01:06:36):
the they're tarring something doesn't see these days, thankfully, the
tarring of the roof Red because he has he's the
fixer and you know, he gets all these friends, and
you know, I think Andy's probably reads me lucky to
get in on that detail. Red does say you could

(01:06:56):
say that I liked Andy the very first time I
saw him, or something like that, but if you actually
watch it's not completely true. You know, he actually has
money on him to be the first who kind of right.
So that's a little little nudge or a little kind
of rippled that doesn't quite ring true for me. But
I got no doubt of the friendship that does occur.
But this is where he he everyone kind of accepts Andy.

(01:07:21):
And I will say this though, when he's when he's
overhearing Hadley's tax problem with the money that he's inherited
and that his wife, you know, and the way Andy
raises the topic of tax exemption is a very dangerous
way to do it. He really could have gone, listen,
I'm an accountant, I'm a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
I could help you with your tax issue.

Speaker 5 (01:07:45):
But he goes straight from the building.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Yeah, he goes straight forward. Do you trust your wife?

Speaker 5 (01:07:50):
Yeah? Exactly, Probably not the opening normal accountains would use.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
Yeah, but but it is, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
I love the fact that you know, and and the
whole light and changes they had the CPS. It's not
the most golden moment of Shawshank as far as the light.
You know, they yeah, and and Red says we drank
SuDS with the with the sun on our backs. And
he and he's not drinking, you know, he just did this.

(01:08:18):
Hed given up and he which you know, almost a
redentive thing to do.

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
Perhaps, Yeah, I mean it's a fantastic line that that
Read says on behalf of Andy that you know, the
reason he did it was not because he was interested
in having a drink, but you know, the reason he
did it was just to feel normal for a moment. Yeah,
you know, to do something good and real. You know that.
That's and the fact that he's sitting there aloof and

(01:08:45):
watching them, and you know, and the characters are now
warming to him. And it really was his turning point
with yes, because that's when he started to get protected,
That's when he started to get spect treatments. That's when
started unraveling. Oh sure, in the right direction for him,
until it all went wrong again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, So we'll move towards the end now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
And did you did you did you get to the
place where you thought Andy had given up?

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Hope he does. Obviously he comes out of the hole.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
And and he has that chat with.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Read again.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
They're sitting up against the wall again. They're not standing up,
they're sitting down. This guy's Tim Robinson's height, and this
way he gives him the directions, but they kind of
speak about hope as well. That again, it's really important
to have these discussions that hope is dangerous.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Andy, you have you have to give up on this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
And this is you know, Andy's in this kind of
he's speaking that low broken he said. He said, he
sounds broken, and Andy gives him some directions.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
I don't think you ought to be doing this to yourself.
And this is a shitty paved dreams.

Speaker 10 (01:09:57):
I mean, Mexico was way to held down there and
you're in here, and that's the way it is.

Speaker 15 (01:10:02):
Yeah, right, that's the way it is. It's down there
and I'm in here. I guess it comes down to
a simple choice. Really good busy living.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
You're good busy die, Andy.

Speaker 13 (01:10:30):
Bred if you ever get.

Speaker 12 (01:10:35):
Out of here, do me a favor, sure anything. There's
a big hay field up near Buxton. You know where
Buxton is. There's a lot of hayfields up there. One
in particular. It's got a long rock wall with a
big oak tree at the north end. It's like something
out of a Robert frostbow. That's where I asked my

(01:10:58):
wife to marry me. I went there for a picnic
and mad love into that oak and I asked and
she said, yes, promise me, Red, if you ever get out,
find that spot. They said, that wall, you'll find a

(01:11:22):
rock that has no earthly business.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
In a main en ave field.

Speaker 13 (01:11:26):
There's a black volcanic glass. Okay, there's something buried under.
An ology to have what end?

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
What's buried under? You left the bride up?

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
You see, I mean the making love was probably too
much information.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
Yeah, exactly. I started to visualize that. I thinking, Okay,
under the tree the rocks, W does W does tell?

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
What was her name, Debbie does VHS That's what it was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
So it's I mean, it's quite brilliant in that Andy
is selling hope back to Red in this moment, like
he's giving him something to strive for in a way,
and the wonder about and to imagine and and I
think that's that's hope, and it's interesting to think about. Okay,

(01:12:31):
So he must have known because this all happens obviously,
yet this money in this letter's not there yet. He's
got this plan, so he's gonna you know, he's got
a rocking mind.

Speaker 5 (01:12:41):
So he is really pedaling false olt. But let's not
go there. You know, Like he's like he is being
overly hopeful. Yes, he's doing it in its own right,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
But I think he's confident that his plan is gonna,
you know, yeah, work out.

Speaker 5 (01:12:58):
Yeah. I mean this is you're now getting to. I
don't want to turn anyone off the film because it's brilliant.
This is the part I like least about the.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Film specifically, which like this this scene, or where it goes.

Speaker 5 (01:13:09):
From here or where it goes from here?

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Where it goes Is this the escape or is his
post the escape?

Speaker 5 (01:13:14):
So so I wanted the redemption to be Andy gets
buried by red.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:13:27):
I wanted him to die in the prison that I
didn't want. I didn't want the redemption in its literal form.
I want read to carry the hope, right. I want
it read to convert to be hopeful. And then I
don't know Andy letter, you know, I don't know Andy
leaves in a letter and he goes off and lives

(01:13:49):
a great I don't know. I struggled with the literal redemption,
like when he's driving down the road in the convertible.

Speaker 16 (01:13:57):
I went, no, no, no, no, I don't want to
confrontable driving in the winding road. I don't want like
and I know the symbolism of the green and the ocean,
the blue and the Pacific Ocean.

Speaker 5 (01:14:08):
But I don't know it's I didn't need it. Yeah, yeah,
I kind of. I didn't want the literal redemption.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Yeah right, yeah, I mean I I mean I saw this,
you know, over twenty years ago. You know, I don't
think like most people didn't see it the cinema, I
don't think. But I thought, you know, not long after that,
and I probably wasn't in that mind space where I was, like,
like you now, where I was thinking about, Yeah, I

(01:14:38):
probably wanted the happy, happier ending.

Speaker 5 (01:14:40):
Yeah. They don't kill off characters twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah, yeah they Yeah, so I was I've never thought
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
I never thought about like that that I've always I
got to see, this is one of the perfect kind
of act third acts, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
I always back to the future being a perfect third act.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
And I feel that this is because this is this
is a kind of thing where if you're watching if
you're watching Shaw shank and it comes on around this time,
you're canceling your plans and you watch it because, I mean,
because the because the way it all unfolds is brilliant,
and the little moments you get along the way, and

(01:15:18):
the come uppance of the ward and when he realizes
when he sees that the rock camera in love that
in print the shoes, you know, and you can't because
we don't know, you know. And I said, they do
a really good job of thinking what what happened?

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Red is upset the longest night of his life. You know,
the cells open in the morning, he doesn't appear. We
see him the night before with rope in his hands.
It's basically a noose and you kind of do think,
but did you ever think that could happen?

Speaker 9 (01:15:50):
Well?

Speaker 5 (01:15:50):
I was kind of so. I loved the twist of
the rock camera in the Bible. Yeah, and I love
the fact that he took twenty years, not six times
to tunnel out. I kind of loved it. I just
wanted him to die doing it, Like I just wanted him,
Like I would have been happy for him to escape
or to to die trying to get that note out

(01:16:15):
to read or whatever like that the rope strangles him
on his escape through the tunnel or what. I don't know,
Like I didn't want I didn't I didn't want him
Tim Robbins or Andy to literally have redemption like that.
I kind of I wanted it to be Red, you know.
I wanted it to be Red that comes right and
gets hope and comes you know. And you could say

(01:16:38):
he did in the end, but I wanted him to
be I wanted us to feel the loss of Andy
and then to feel the the the rejuvenated, somehow rejuvenated
hope of Red because he had met someone he loved
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Well, and you make a bell a point in that
it probably is Red that needs the redemption more than Andy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Andy.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Yes, and he's an innocent man, and yes, he had
a dark moment where he was loading a gun and
and and that. But I'm not sure I've done that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
We've all done that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
But so you don't do you need twenty years for
you know, for him the kind of you know, for
that moment to be redeemed.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
I don't think so. But it's Red.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
It's Red who has who is guilty of his crime,
who has lost hope, that has a bigger journey as
far as redemption goes.

Speaker 5 (01:17:30):
You're you're right, yeah, And and and when he's walking
on the beach at the end, and with the sandaler's
shoes on on his shoulder. I I don't know, I
just I wanted to feel more from him, you know.
And I know it's a buddy film, so in the
end s there together, But that was my only with

(01:17:51):
that said, like I loved it. I loved the end. Yeah,
it's I didn't hate it. It was the part I
liked least, you know what I mean? Like I and
again now picking apart the film and you know, and
you kind of see it differently than washing over you.
It would have washed over me, you know, twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
But yeah, yeah, the escape, you know, I mean, it's
one of those fun things to watch in in movie history,
like in movies in general, a good.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
Escape or a heist or escape.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
When you kind of don't know how he's done it,
and when you see it or play out, there are
a couple of things that you know are convenient, you know,
like the weather that he know.

Speaker 5 (01:18:33):
It was going to be done right wait wait wait
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
I'm so surprised in a way, to be honest, when
he when they see him walking with and he's wearing
the warden shoes and it's revealed later that they didn't
maybe lay in at least some rain, you know, or
you know, or this this is something about whether there
was some inclement weather coming, you know, and you know

(01:19:01):
a hackeyway could have been a warden saying there's going
to be storms tonight or something, you know, like somebody
saying that so, which would mean nothing to us in
the moment. But then when Andy does that, it'd be like, ah, okay,
so he knew there's this something about that. It is
just too convenient that to happen now. And then I'm
not sure if that's how surage works.

Speaker 5 (01:19:23):
If that I wasn't either.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
It may be if anyone works in the a sewage experts.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Yes, if there are yasny at gmail dot com, I'll
get us on the speak pipe.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
Let us know. Is that how it works exactly?

Speaker 5 (01:19:35):
Call Shane Jacobson and see what he knows. But but
but I guess for me, I love the idea of
the escape because it was the one up of it's
the long game, you know, it's the perseverance, it's the
hope beyond you know, despair, it's it's it's all about.
And I did enjoy, uh, I enjoyed it all the

(01:19:59):
way up when he it's when the rain's coming down
and he stands up and he's covered and you know,
it's not really covered, and shit, it's kind of out
now off. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. And I loved
all that. It's it's kind of a bat point onwards
and and even pacing wise from that point onwards. I
thought that sort of languid, that that sort of slow

(01:20:22):
pace worked well in the prison thing, in the prison environment.
But when he brought a noted too the real world,
it's suddenly felt a little different, like it was a
bit like it's this a slow ending, like it felt
like a number of stops and starts towards the end,
where I didn't feel any of that within I mean,
we're picking now, but I didn't feel any of that
within the prison.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Yeah. Yeah, he kept.

Speaker 5 (01:20:44):
The same pacing, this kind of slow, melodic pacing in
the real world. Uh. And I jarred a bit for
me as well.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Yeah, And I did love when Red gets out and
you know again it it took me to a place
it's like, Okay, he's read going to get through this.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
We've seen Brooks.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
He goes to the same hotel, he gets up and
he writes, yeah, read was he too, And.

Speaker 5 (01:21:08):
I love the line where he says, h he turns
to his boss and that when he's packing the groceries
and says, can I go to the toilet? And the
guy says, you don't have to ask me? And he did.
The bole comes on and says, I can't piss a
drop without permission or whatever, and it's just see, I
love that stuff because to me, it's you. You're you're
sort of feeling the impact of the dehumanization inside and

(01:21:32):
it's just so amplified on the outside. And then it
makes you question a whole bunch of things, you know,
it makes you question the difference between rehabilitation and incarceration.
And you know, he's he should be redeemed at this
stage because he's deserved his time. He seems like a
good person. Yet he's still institutionalized even on the outside.
And like, I don't know, as soon as we get

(01:21:52):
to writing in the convertible and where do you get
that convertible?

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Yeah, well, I think he's got the same three one
hundred and seventy five thousand dollars or something love that
which which to today's three and seventy thousand dollars, today's
money is two point nine million that he would have
walked away.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
Okay, so you've got a convertible. Ok, you got the comvertible. OK.

Speaker 5 (01:22:13):
Well, he really should have given Morgan Freeman more money
than the bus.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
He should it should have been a convertible weight he's.

Speaker 5 (01:22:21):
Got two million, he should have a convertible wait for
Morgan Freeman or even a small plane take him down there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
I did love that it was the He's only the
second crime he's ever committed was breaking parole.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
I thought that was a nice touch.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
He finds, he finds the oak tree where they made love,
you know, unncessary detail, and.

Speaker 5 (01:22:40):
He SIPs through the dirt that had been.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
There that's related.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Say how many times you got his?

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
Oh my god? So and then and then there is
a letter. Let's have listened to the letter. MH.

Speaker 8 (01:23:07):
Dear Red. If you're reading this, you've gotten out. And
if you've come this far, maybe you're willing to come
a little further. You remember the name of the town,
don't you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
Say? Waked in the Hill?

Speaker 8 (01:23:23):
I could use a good man to help me get
my project on wheels. I'll keep an eye out for
you and the chessboard. Ready, Remember Red, hope is a
good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good
thing ever dies. I will be hoping that this letter
finds you and finds you well, your friend Andy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
The lovely little touch that Morgan Fraeman does when he
gets the letter and then when he gets the money,
is he he looks around.

Speaker 5 (01:23:55):
Like, yeah, exactly. He's been in praising of his line
someone getting me.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
In an open field, and he's still looking around for
prison wardens.

Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
Yes, it's I mean, it's It's a gorgeous moment, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
You wonder you wonder if if Andy dies in this film.
I like the idea if we're you know, to reach
into your thoughts, if I think you want to see
Andy get out of share shame, and like you said,
maybe he does die on the way out where he dies.

Speaker 5 (01:24:28):
Try hope is last for Andy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
Yes, But but Red Red does get it, and Red
finds the redemption and and and and and signs up
for hope.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Yes, I feel like that's that that does work.

Speaker 5 (01:24:44):
For us of the greatest films, much love films on
the planet. But since we are like cutting it up
a bit, That's how I felt towards the end, and
I'm probably not alone in people that thought the ending
was a bit not pollyannish, but it was a little
bit not even that it would be expected. It was

(01:25:07):
just a little bit American.

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
Well, there's no doubt this film does to a line
where it could have so easily have have tippled over
into mawkish kind of land. You know, it's it's it's
a fine balance.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
I think they get it right.

Speaker 5 (01:25:28):
And it's not markets though. I mean that is a
good but you know that is a good point. I
don't think it goes there, but it starts to towards
the end. It is certainly nowhere there throughout until the
very end of my.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Mind, because it because it has balanced effect, you know,
with with some pretty violence beatings and you assaults, So
there is there is that which I think does really
help it. Before we go, I got I got some
fun facts, like you said, Tom, Tom Cruise almost played Andy,
and that was because Rob Ryiner was going to almost

(01:25:59):
direct what he wanted to. So I mentioned before Darrabant
had directed a short film called Woman in the Room.
He was keen to get out of horror. Rob Rainer
loved the book as well, which this is a comes
from it's a short story of Stephen King could read
Hayworth and the short Redemption, and it's in a book
called Different Seasons. It's got four different short stories in it.

(01:26:21):
Three of the short stories have been made in the films.
One is a one called app to People, which Brian
Singer did in the in the nineties. The other one
is another classic stand by Me is from that book.
So I'm not sure what the fourth story is there,
but it has not It is not.

Speaker 5 (01:26:37):
One of the clowns.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
It's not clo.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
That's a full on that is a full on book itself,
so it's not that One'm not sure what.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
I'm not sure what that one is.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
But next time you okay, you're gonna come back and
we'll do those Devils.

Speaker 7 (01:26:56):
Watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Some other casting options, certainly Tim Robbins was not the
first choice, Tom Cruise if rober Owner was going to
do it, and then Jeff Bridges was considered, Kevin Costner,
Matthew Broderick, Nick Cage, and the other big one who
it was literally offered to and he chose to do
another film that year was Tom Hanks, and he chose

(01:27:23):
to do a little film called Forrest Gump, which he
wins the Oscar for Yeah, of course Red was going
to be played potentially well. Some of the ideas were
Clint Eastwood, Harrison Ford, Paul Newman, Robert Redford, and Sydney Pointier,
who actually knocked it back because he thought playing a

(01:27:43):
black man in prison wasn't necessarily helping stereotype stereotypes. So
he said, no, it's funny actually because he's such a Red.
I think he's seen it's such a dignified kind of
character that in that film. That like far b for
me to disagree with his to Poitier, but I think
he would have been amazing in that role.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
The young, the young.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
The photo of young Red is actually the photo we
see when he with his parole meetings. He's actually young
Alfonso Freeman, which is Morgan's son.

Speaker 5 (01:28:16):
It did it jarred with me every time because I
was like, that's not him. Even back then, like I
kept thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
That's not him.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
He kept showing you want to as an actor, you know, surely,
but maybe not. Maybe I was thinking Morgan probably would
have had some head shots they could have used, but
maybe he was smiling or maybe had his his hands
on his hand on his chin or something which doesn't
work as for a mog shot.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
He's also in the prison yard.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
When he comes in there, they're talking about they're going fishing,
and he's doing a mock kind of reeling somebody in here,
so he's in it twice. It's a Roger Deakins, who
I'm sure you know. He's one of the great cinematographers.
This his first Academy Award nomination. He's been nominated for
many many times. He basically does all the current Brothers films.

(01:29:05):
He did nineteen seventeen with Sam Mendez, recently later on
a twenty forty nine So Carrio Prisoners. Like I said,
all the the Coen Brothers film sky Fall, The Assassination
of Jesse James, and the cow Robert Ford. I think
he finally wins his first one. He got he famously
kept on missing out, and then I'm pretty sure he
got his first one for No Country, for Old Man Redemption.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
He was the Deacons Redemption.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
He also does a podcast if you're interested, with his wife,
who's like in I think it's got Team Deacons. His
wife works closer with him to help put the crew
together and they do a really interesting podcast together for
those for those interested, and just I talked a lot
about the year nineteen ninety nine been one of the

(01:29:49):
greatest movie years ever. Had films like Being John Malkovic,
Three Kings, Magnolia, The Matrix, a whole bunch of eight
films were released in ninety ninety nine, but there's something
to be said about nineteen ninety four, where this film
is released for like pure like crab pleasing movies. The

(01:30:12):
five nominations for Best Picture that year were Forrest Gump,
Four Weddings and a Funeral, a rare comedy nomination, quiz
Show Robert Redford and saying it refines really good show.
But maybe that hasn't lived in the public's memory as
much as the other ones, Shawshack, Redemption.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
And Pulp Fiction. Yeah amazing, that's a strong field.

Speaker 5 (01:30:36):
That's a strong field.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
So and Tom Hanks Wings for Forrest Gump and Yeah
and also other other movies that year with Lion King
Hans Zimmer wins the score for that Bullet over Broadway.
The Three Colors trilogy, or at least the Blue One,
came out that year. True Lies, Speed is a pretty
a pretty good year, A pretty good year.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
Mate.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
You are You're as busy as as they come. You
have just wrapped on your latest doc Oat series, which
is which you do some terrifying things.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
I'm often privately concerned about.

Speaker 5 (01:31:11):
You ask God, this is fine, this is all about
the internet. Well yeah, but now it's changing, This could
be changing our brain.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
This could be the most terrifying one you've done. Maybe
to watch.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
I think it'll be a shocker for a lot of parents,
but hopefully it's.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Useful all It's much needed.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
It is the battle, you know, the amount of conversations
I have with friends who are parents, and the amount
of conversations we have on the project.

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
Very rarely do we.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
Have answers and and so I can't wait to watch it.
But how did you how did you find making it?

Speaker 3 (01:31:44):
Is? It? Is it?

Speaker 5 (01:31:46):
It is confronting as our father and as someone who
is swimming in the digital world and struggling with my
own digital habits. It was a bit shocking. Yeah, it's
The opening of the film is pretty hardcore, like, it's
pretty full on. There will be a lot of conversation
off the opening. I think people will just be wanting
to talk with their kids about it, and there'll be
a lot of sheepish kids looking to the floor, pretending

(01:32:07):
they know nothing about what they're seeing, but knowing everything
about what they're seeing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
So do you suggest watching it with you? It's open.

Speaker 5 (01:32:15):
Yeah, there's some sections that are a little bit hard
to watch. But this is the thing, right, this is
their world. Yeah, the parents will be shocked even say it.
I have a line in there where I say before
I said, what you're about to see is concerning and
in some cases graphic. So for the parents in the room,
this is a warning. For the kids in the room,
you know what's coming.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
Well, yeah, that's great and.

Speaker 5 (01:32:37):
So yeah, and that's the point, is the sort of
duality of lives we live. You know, we're kids on
average these days are spending forty to fifty hours a
week on TikTok, you know, or on social media. And
they live in that world and we don't. Because we
lived in a world where we had an option, you know,
we lived in a world. I lived in the world
where the phone at one stage was attached to the wall,
so in the wood there was no internet.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
So unique, Oh I am I am now often be mused,
and I'm guilty of it as well. Like we we
do see screens as as a kid's problem, you know,
or a problem facing our kids.

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
But but it's not, it's not it's it's it's all
of us.

Speaker 5 (01:33:14):
And and and the film is my film is not
directed directly at kids, for everything is about us. As
you know, there's four point six billion people trapped in
this experiment controlled by a handful of white men. Yeah,
that's just the reality we live in right now, a
handful of primarily white American men. Four point six billion people.
It's not a small amount, you know, that's not that's

(01:33:35):
not just kids. No, And it's not just Australia or America.

Speaker 1 (01:33:39):
And it's a yeah, and it is a it's a
strategic beast.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
You know, when you as soon as you know, you know,
it was probably recently ago we started learning about algorithms
and how how how we're targeted, and it's this is
this is, like I said, a strategic and we.

Speaker 5 (01:33:54):
Live in an algorithmic world now that is beyond a
humans apprehension. You know. Jeff Siebert's in the film and
he was in the Social Dilemma and he was the
former head of product at Twitter, and we're in the
valley and he was explaining he said, oh, there is
a human alife that understands these algorithms. There's self learning machines.
They're off. And here's the crazy part. We're just at

(01:34:15):
the foothills. If we don't get regulation and if we
don't wake up to what's going on, we're just at
the beginning. We're just right at the beginning. You know.
The where this could go is you know, people say, oh,
are you being alarmist? Yes, there's an alarm involved, but
I think we just need to be realistic where we are.
It's like smoking. We went all those years thinking smoking
was good for us. Doctor is on air telling us

(01:34:37):
smoking's fine, don't worry, I smoke. And now we look
back at that and go and legislation pass to protect smoking.
And now we look back at that and go, oh god,
we should have protected our generation of children from this.
The reason we regulate advertising from kids. I mean, it's
the same thing we need to regulate.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
It's the thing I think about most as a parent.
It really is like, am I going to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
Those conversations are almost oh my, yeah, one of my
kids coming to me, And you know, I've got a
twenty year old on the seveneen year old, and I
feel like they've navigated that pretty well. I've got a
fourteen year old who are more concerned about well.

Speaker 5 (01:35:11):
I highly recommend it. It's out next week. I think
next week, week after the tenth. If you're on a Monday,
I think, if you can get your kids around the screen,
do it, man. It'll be a really good conversation. Yeah,
I think, and lots of practical tips on things we
can do as parents or as individuals to help kind
of mitigate some of the damage that's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
Are you saying, Todd, that you're giving us some hope?

Speaker 5 (01:35:37):
Yeah, there's hope, definitely. The second half of the film's Oh.
The first half is very shosh. It's all going downhill.
Second a half. Act Act one, oh boy, Act two
start to come up. Act three we're off.

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):
So it's early on it's hope is a dangerous thing.
And then then it's like, no, you need hope, you
need hope, ran, Yes, you need help red thanks mate.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Well there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:36:16):
That is Todd Sam's in the Shaw Shank Redemption. We
finally found somebody and who hadn't seen it, And I'm
so glad it was Todd because he's such he's a
filmmaker himself, and he loves film, and he always is
so insightful and fascinating with what he has to say

(01:36:38):
in his observation. So that was that was really fun.
You know, I'm relieved that he loved it because I
know a lot of you love it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:44):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
Not many people I know have what Shawshank redemption come away,
you're not enjoying it, So great news for Shawshank fans. Yeah, really, really,
really a whole bunch of fun. Derek myyes is my
copolot here. He runs Castway Studios. If you're looking for
a somewhere to do a podcast, whether it's in here,

(01:37:06):
in the studios or even remotely, get onto Derek my
Castways Studios dot com dot au.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
Derek, you're a show Shank fan? Shortly, yeah, everyone is.
Everybody is, Yeah.

Speaker 17 (01:37:18):
But I Reckon a prison movie fan. I probably didn't
realize it till till I started to them. I just
looked up a bit of a list before I found
a website called prisonmovies dot net right right, and it's
it is phenomenal, like it has like the top five
hundred prison move.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
What what are the other ones that you like that
you speak to you with the Birdman of Alcatraz.

Speaker 1 (01:37:46):
I really enjoyed.

Speaker 7 (01:37:47):
Yeah, so a lot of them as a kid affect.

Speaker 17 (01:37:50):
You know, you're talking about the high school thing, and
I agree with you there that fascination with American high school.

Speaker 7 (01:37:55):
That's another world and it's good. I think that.

Speaker 17 (01:37:59):
You know, the underside of that, if you like of that,
is like, oh my god, don't get caught. You grow
up with watching prisoner going don't look too bad really,
and then you see Papillon, you know, or that.

Speaker 7 (01:38:16):
Okay, that's a bad example.

Speaker 17 (01:38:17):
It's not. It's not American, but you see this Alcatraz
stuff and all all this stuff with proper not just
how bad prison is, but real horrendous corruption and stuff
like that. I was a huge fan of brew Baker, right,
Robert Redford, Okay, put that on the list.

Speaker 7 (01:38:35):
Love love brew Baker and as a cool hand Luke fan.

Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
Cool hand, Luke, I love im, like I'm looking forward
to doing that.

Speaker 7 (01:38:42):
Brew Baker is. It's about a.

Speaker 17 (01:38:46):
Guy who's a criminologist and he gets the job as
a governor obviously as they would say, liberal or lefty
kind of new governor, and he goes in undercover as
a prisoners. It's pretty tense, probably thirty years since I've
seen it, but absolutely love that Baker Brew Baker.

Speaker 7 (01:39:07):
Put it on.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
Get onto that Now you can get onto us through
our speak pipe, Yes, a speak pipe. If you follow
the links on our pages, you'll find it and you
can leave us a message where we can hear your
your dollsic tones.

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
And I believe we have one today, Derek.

Speaker 7 (01:39:26):
Yes, we've got Jason Carter sent one through jas by guys.

Speaker 18 (01:39:30):
Jason here. Just want to let you both know that
loving the podcast. Although I'm struggling through fear and loathing
in Las Vegas at the moment, it's one that.

Speaker 3 (01:39:42):
I've got to catch up on.

Speaker 18 (01:39:43):
There's been a few lately that I haven't actually seen
and one of the cool things about the podcast is
it's got me to pull my finger out and go
and watch a few movies that I haven't made the
effort to do on the path. So going pretty good,
although I struggling with fear and loathing, so I'll get
through it and then I can listen to that.

Speaker 5 (01:40:06):
Remember a while.

Speaker 18 (01:40:07):
Ago you mentioned that you had a few guests that
you wanted to have on, but you were struggling to
find a movie that hadn't seen and I just wanted
to throw out there. Maybe you could try some of
the original movies that won the Best Picture awards at
the Academy Awards, things like Grand Hotel and Cimarron, which
they're interesting movies. I don't know where the hell you'd

(01:40:28):
find them. I think Cimarron I hide it on VHS
from a library about ten years ago, so it'll be
out there somewhere. But something different and give you a
chance to get I think Lucky hum was someone that
you mentioned. Give you a chance to get some of
those guys on the pod. So but I keep it up,
really enjoying it.

Speaker 7 (01:40:48):
Catch it later.

Speaker 1 (01:40:49):
Thanks Jace. What a great suggestion.

Speaker 2 (01:40:52):
We have struggled to get one that Lucky Hume definitely,
even though he had some legal London. I try to
pitch that, but he not that knock that on its head.
But Grand Hotel and Cimmaron are great suggestions I know
we have and we're trying to lock down a time.
But Hamish Blake will be coming on the show, and

(01:41:14):
he'll be he'll be doing a film that, to be
absolutely honest, I hadn't heard of and I won't mention
it just yet. I'll mention it as soon as we
confirm it that he'll be appearing and it's recorded. I
don't want to get into the Judith Flucy situation of
saying she'd be doing sound of music for years and

(01:41:35):
years and years until we finally do it. So but
that's in that. I think it's in that genre of
really films that a lot of people maybe wouldn't have
even heard of. So I'm happy to put Grand Hotel
and Cimmarron on the list that they are great suggestions.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
Good luck.

Speaker 2 (01:41:54):
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, I kind of felt
like I wanted to yell at the Jason there because,
of course, the Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas episode
was a bit controversial because our guest Dan Connell was
supposed to watch Lost in Translation but accidentally watched Fear
and Loathing in Las Vegas. I hadn't, well, I have
seen it, but I was operating a lot on recall

(01:42:17):
as opposed to my extensive deep diving that I like
to do on these films. So yes, Jase, if you
listening to this, I hope you got through it, okay, mate,
And I hope you enjoyed that episode, so we had
a great time with Dan despite the.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Mix up coming up and you ain't say nothing yet.

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
Next week, well, I thought we've had some big guess
we Darren Hayes a couple of weeks ago. We had
obviously Todd Sampson today. It's some of a giant to
be Australian television scene. We've already had Cat Stewart early
in the year, Sushi Mango, Glenn Robbins, Bloody Hell. Next
week we have a Gold Logi nomine a woman who's always, always,

(01:42:59):
always funny, Julia Morris, the host co host of I'm
a Celebrity to Get Me out of Here. She's one
of the funniest people in this country. I adore her.
She's so entertaining and she will be watching for the
very first time, believe it or not, the Adam Sandler
classic Happy Gilmore. Yes, after Shaw Shank, we are lightning

(01:43:25):
things up again with a comedy that really launched Adam
Sandler to the world. We've discussed Adam Sandler a bit
on this podcast. People have different reactions to him, so
it'd be interesting to see Julia's take. Obviously she knows
who Adam Sandler is, but this is a film that
I think endeared him to the world. That's next week,
Julia Morris, Happy Gilmore sharring Adam Sandler. Make sure you're

(01:43:47):
tune in for that, and before we go, a little
different outro this week. This is dedicated to my good
mate Todd Samson. Thanks for joining us, Todd. This is
the score from Debbie.

Speaker 1 (01:43:56):
Does tell us

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
Enjoy even be leading me in

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