March 28, 2023 • 17 mins
*Content warning - Parental discretion advised*
Topics included in this episode -
- Detective Superintendent Jayne Crossling shares about a new book created by the AFP & ACCCE - Jack Changes The Game
- Keeping children safe from online grooming
- Is there an age that's too young to discuss online grooming?
- Find the book in your school's library
- A family online safety contract
- 7 Day Family Online Safety Challenge
Find us on Facebook at Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families
Email us your questions and comments at podcasts@happyfamilies.com.au
Find out more and register for the Raising Resilient Kids Summit.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy
Families dot com dot you. Every month or so, I've
been having a conversation with the Australian Federal Police Detective
Superintendent Jane Crossling from the Australian Center to Counter Child Exploitation,
or ACE, as will refer to them throughout the rest
of the podcast, is going to join me to talk
about one of those topics we've talked about all the
(00:31):
hard ones, really, the topics that are so challenging. A
lot of parents sort of shrug their shoulder and say, oh, yeah,
it will never happen to me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
A lot of parents will say I just don't even
know where to start.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We're talking about the genuinely hard topics that revolve around
kids and screens. Jane, thank you for joining me for
this conversation about whether or not kids being groomed.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Tricky topics dive into today.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thanks Justin.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I had a conversation just the other day with somebody
who said, I think that we're like the genie is
out of the bottle when it comes to kids and screens.
They're all over it. We just need to embrace it.
We need to stop going on about all the scare tactics.
And yet I picked up a book that the Australian
Federal Police have written with some very very careful consultants.
The book is called Jack Changes the Game and it's
(01:17):
a book about kids being approached by strangers for grooming
purposes online. I want to talk to you about the
book and I want to talk to you about grooming,
how often it happens, what we need to be looking
out for, and how we can keep our kids safe.
So many different ways for us to go here. Let's
just start with a really hard hitting question before we
get to the book. Do you think that parents grasp
(01:39):
the reality of grooming and the dangers that it poses
to their children.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I think the short answer is no, they don't grasp
the serious nature of it and how frequently it can occur.
So we have data just for those reports that we
actually receive. There could be any number of other instances
that are happening where we don't receive those reports.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And unfortunately, we are.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Receiving reports that involve very young children who have actually
been approached online with somebody that intends to groom them.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
How young is very young.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
We've seen children, you know, five, six, seven years of
age and predominantly through online gaming platforms and sites.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, so five year olds need to know about grooming,
which is kind of tricky because we're barely talking to
them about their own private parts. I mean, a lot
of parents don't even consider having conversations about procreation intimacy,
those kinds of physical intimate moments until kids are somewhere
(02:49):
between eight and twelve, depending on the family, depending what
the kids are exposed to. So you're really saying that
at the age of five, we need to have this conversation,
which I guess leads into my question for you about
a book, a book written by the Australian Federal Police
about grooming.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
The book's called Jack Changes the Game. You sent it
through to me. I've read it.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I think that it does a really great job of
bringing the topic up. But maybe outside of my endorsement
of the book, you could describe what's going on in
the book, where you got the ideas from, and how
it's come to be.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
So the whole idea was that there was a gap
essentially that we knew that young people were vulnerable to
this type of dreaming, and one of the amazing teams
that works at ACE, called the Online Child Safety Team,
actually had the idea of a children's picture book being
part of the solution to fill that gap. They were
(03:43):
able to secure some money from an innovation fund that
the AFP set up, and they were very successful in
getting that bid up. So they took the concept and
found an author. We were given access to the notable
author tes Rowley and also the illustrator Shannon Haw's Fall,
(04:05):
and then they said about building a reference group because
at the end of the day, we're law enforcement and
we don't purport to be children education experts, and we
wanted to make sure that our message was appropriate, particularly
age appropriate.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
But that it was not fear based, and that.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It was age appropriate and evidence based most importantly, so
we had some notable academics, also.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
A victim survivor, as well as academics.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
From psychology, early childhood.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
And inclusive education areas in academia.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So that reference group was able to provide oversight and
amazing guidance to the team as the book developed, and
it was hopefully with the whole idea in mind of
being a conversation star and allowing parents the opportunity to
start a conversation about something that they might otherwise feel
(05:13):
very uncomfortable about, but something that needed to take place
given that young people are online, and we can't shay
away from the fact that young people from very very
early ages are doing things that are entirely age appropriate.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
But perhaps there are opportunities there for groomers.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
That the parents perhaps didn't fully understand.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So step me through the story. We've got a character
called Jack who is obviously online and gets approached. What
happens next in the story.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
So Jack, when he is approached, he initially feels that
he's created a really lovely bond with another person. And
this is just so common when young people think that
they've found someone online that's very like minded, that they
have some sort of connection, and they feel really validated
by that. But the messaging there, specifically for the child,
(06:08):
is that not everybody online is who they say they are.
So helping young people develop a sense to differentiate between
online and real world friendships is really critical and we
want to keep reinforcing that message that went online they
should ideally avoid talking to people that they don't actually
(06:28):
know in person. And then also Jack, as part of
the journey, actually starts to feel uncomfortable when the conversation
goes in a slightly different way. And we think it's
so critical that young people understand when something is actually
making them feel unsure or unsafe and then what to
do about it. They need to actually then reach out.
(06:50):
So we see that process where Jack actually reaches out
and he is able to see that by having a
close relationship with siblings and friends, that they're all part
of the ecosystem that can provide that support to a
young person when they do reach out, and that it's
a positive outcome when contact is made, when a problem
(07:13):
is shared, and that it all is a positive outcome
for the entire household.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I'm speaking with Detective Superintendent Jane Crossling from ACE, the
Australian senator counter Child Exploitation. The police are authors, the
police have written a book, Jack Changes the Game. It
sounds so sinister, Jane, as you talk about this setup,
I'm guessing it's based on real life. This is not
something that you fictionally created. I presume you have stories
(07:43):
like this coming through your front door every day.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We're troubled by the amount of reports that we see.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So the ACE serves as a front door for reporting
for online child sexual exploitation for Australia now, and that
includes the type of grooming behavior that we see play
out in this book. And we are not only concerned
about the volume, but the fact that it impacts on
children of every age.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Is there an age that's too young to start talking
about this? I mean, this is a book that is
it's literally a children's book. I mean you could read
it to your four year old, your five year old,
for sure. Is there an age that's too young to
talk about grooming from a police.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Standpoint, we don't think there is.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
We think that it's actually an entirely appropriate thing for
a parent or a care to do as soon as
that young person is going to be acting interacting with devices,
and particularly devices that are connected to the Internet. So
this resource is all about having early conversations which could
lead to earlier intervention should something wrong go online. And
(08:45):
because we've been very gentle in the telling of the story,
we feel that that's where the age appropriate.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Key feature of the book comes into play.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So it's really targeted for an audience of five to
eight year olds. It's designed to be led by a
parent or a care or indeed a teacher, and we
have a whole range of resources to support the book
on the website as well that includes additional material that
would help a parent, a care or a teacher in
(09:15):
how they actually speak to other aspects that might fall
out of having read through the book.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
So we in recognizing that this is.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Really really challenging for parents and cares and teachers, this
is designed to be a tool and it is just
considered an alternative way of delivering what is a really
important safety message in a way that's non confrontational. As
I said, it's a very gentle message. There's a particular
passage that's repeated that can become a little bit of
(09:48):
a catch cry, and I think you know, the authors
have done such an outstandingly good job to make the
message really accessible.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Now, Jane, the AFP are not trying to make money
off this. In fact, you have sent this book to
every school in the country. It's available on every school
library in every school around every state and every town
and every city in the country, so parents can easily
get access to it, they can get the kids to
pick it up the library, the parents can call the school.
The book is called Jack Changes the Game, and I
(10:15):
love how you mentioned before this is a conversation starter.
Now I have two more questions as we sort of
continue this conversation. My first one is how how does
a parent talk about something they know so little about already?
Where does a parent even start outside of picking up
this book from the library and having a look through
(10:36):
it and reading it to their child.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
We've been tackling that subject quite some time now.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
The Online Tide Safty team here adays have been responsible
for the think you Know initiative for some years now,
and that has been about how to start those conversations
and making it, you know, age appropriate in how they
might embark on that. The other, the other tool that
we often talk about is the notion of a family
(11:04):
online safety contract. So we've developed this contract. There's a
shared agreement between a young person of any age I
should stress and the parents to put down some expectation
around usage, but also it serves as an excellent conversation
started to talk about how that technology might be used,
(11:25):
and then also to demonstrate a commitment to talking up
if something isn't going well online. And some of the
feedback that we've received over the years about these contracts
has been so positive that it's been such a powerful agreement,
particularly where there's something to win or lose from both
(11:46):
sides of the equation, where the parents themselves also have
to make certain commitments that there's ramifications for them as well,
So that's available on the Think you Know website, but
there's also a lot of information that is age appropriate
for parents as well if they just don't know where
to start. We sometimes speak to parents and they can
get a little bit bogged down in saying that they
(12:08):
don't understand the technology, but we don't necessarily think that
that's the most critical aspect. We think it's far more
important for a parent to say that they at least
know what games, app sites, platforms that young person's on,
what they like, and what they tend to use, what
they gravitate towards, and that the parent will make it really,
(12:31):
really clear that the door is always open for communication.
We think that's much more important than parents having a
really technical understanding of whatever it is that the young
person's involved in, So we don't want parents to feel overwhelmed.
There are just some really basic things that a parent
can do, and in the context of the grooming scenario
(12:51):
that we used as the basis of the story, a
parent can actually just check whether or not the game
or the app that the young child is using does
it even have direct message function. This is one of
the most basic things that a parent can do to
feel more comfortable about the game that that person is playing.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Because if they're talking.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
To people that they don't know in the real world,
that that is cause for concern, particularly if they're the
younger children, and are they talking about the game, if
they are talking about anything, So these are sorts of
things that parents can talk about. They can consider disabling
the chat if it's not actually essential to the play
of the game. But again, if a parent isn't even
(13:33):
understanding what their young child is into and what they
typically gravitate towards, they don't know about those sorts of
really basic security measures that they can take. Privacy settings
as well allow you to control who can actually talk
to your child. These are again really simple, and there's
(13:53):
usually lots of help menus available to explain how those
sorts of settings are turned on, and even talking to
young people about critical thinking skills as they grow and mature.
These are things that are going to serve a young
person well through life, and not just in their online.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
World, but.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Just reinforcing the notion that not everybody online is who
they say they are, and working out whether or not
it's appropriate to share images personal information with people.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
When they are online.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
One of the really big red flags for us that
we see is that when young people are interacting on
an entirely age appropriate game or app or site, that
they're being asked to move to a different platform. So
again that's a really big red flag for us that
a young child should be very wary about. And it's
not necessary that the parents have to go into great
(14:47):
detail as to why that's something to be wary of,
but just that it's not appropriate and that if that
were to happen, maybe talk to mom and dad. So
there are some really basic things that a parent or
care can do in a household setting that don't mean
they have to be overwhelmed, and it doesn't mean that
they have to know the ins and outs of every
(15:07):
game that the young person's playing.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I love that advice.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You actually answered both of the questions that I was
going to ask in that one. But when I hear
you describe everything that you've shared there.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
My summary of it is just start.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Just even if you don't know what to say, just say, hey, kid,
I need to talk to you about this.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I don't even know where to start, but here's what
I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Here's what I heard on the podcast today, and I
just know that I need to keep you safe. So
let's have a chat about it. Like that's that's all
it takes to get going right.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Absolutely, And some of the feedback that we've heard from
the young people themselves is that the young people actually
feel a little bit validated if their interests are something
that the parents want to even talk about.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
So, you know, you may really your eyes make.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Glaze over if the kid's going to give you in
depth explanation of what they just did in minecraft or
roadblocks or whatever it is that they're into.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
But for a parent to show that level of interest, I.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Think from what we see, it just sort of reinforces
that a young person is okay to talk about it
and that the parents at least have a level of interest.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
In it so appreciate this conversation.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So many parents aren't aware of just how much this
can strike at the heart of it's such a terrifying thing,
quite frankly, and so many parents just aren't aware that
it is as big a deal as it is and
that their kids can be and are being approached. Detective
Superintendent Jane Crossling from the Australian Senator Counter Child Exploitation
or ACE find out more at a triple ce dot
(16:38):
gov dot a U and Jane will link to the
resource that you've mentioned in our show notes so that
parents can get hold of everything that they need to
get this going and also if they want to get
hold of the book, Jack Changes, the game should be
available in your school library. Thanks for chatting with me
about this really super important topic.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Thanks Justin, and can I just say that the book
is also available as a downloadable from the website, so
we've had already over ten thousand downloads of the book,
so yeah, that might be worth referencing as well.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
That's one hundred percent worth referencing, and we will also
find that link and share that in our show notes
as well, so that parents don't even have to go
to the school library to get ahold of it. They
can just download it and read it on their phone
with their kids. Jane, look forward to our next conversation.
A delight to be with you.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland for
Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and For
more information about making your family happier and keeping your
kids safe from grooming, check out the show notes to
this podcast episode and visit a triple ce dot gov
dot a you, orhappy families dot com dot au
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just wants answers Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy
Families dot com dot you. Every month or so, I've
been having a conversation with the Australian Federal Police Detective
Superintendent Jane Crossling from the Australian Center to Counter Child Exploitation,
or ACE, as will refer to them throughout the rest
of the podcast, is going to join me to talk
about one of those topics we've talked about all the
(00:31):
hard ones, really, the topics that are so challenging. A
lot of parents sort of shrug their shoulder and say, oh, yeah,
it will never happen to me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
A lot of parents will say I just don't even
know where to start.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We're talking about the genuinely hard topics that revolve around
kids and screens. Jane, thank you for joining me for
this conversation about whether or not kids being groomed.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Tricky topics dive into today.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thanks Justin.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I had a conversation just the other day with somebody
who said, I think that we're like the genie is
out of the bottle when it comes to kids and screens.
They're all over it. We just need to embrace it.
We need to stop going on about all the scare tactics.
And yet I picked up a book that the Australian
Federal Police have written with some very very careful consultants.
The book is called Jack Changes the Game and it's
(01:17):
a book about kids being approached by strangers for grooming
purposes online. I want to talk to you about the
book and I want to talk to you about grooming,
how often it happens, what we need to be looking
out for, and how we can keep our kids safe.
So many different ways for us to go here. Let's
just start with a really hard hitting question before we
get to the book. Do you think that parents grasp
(01:39):
the reality of grooming and the dangers that it poses
to their children.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I think the short answer is no, they don't grasp
the serious nature of it and how frequently it can occur.
So we have data just for those reports that we
actually receive. There could be any number of other instances
that are happening where we don't receive those reports.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And unfortunately, we are.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Receiving reports that involve very young children who have actually
been approached online with somebody that intends to groom them.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
How young is very young.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
We've seen children, you know, five, six, seven years of
age and predominantly through online gaming platforms and sites.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, so five year olds need to know about grooming,
which is kind of tricky because we're barely talking to
them about their own private parts. I mean, a lot
of parents don't even consider having conversations about procreation intimacy,
those kinds of physical intimate moments until kids are somewhere
(02:49):
between eight and twelve, depending on the family, depending what
the kids are exposed to. So you're really saying that
at the age of five, we need to have this conversation,
which I guess leads into my question for you about
a book, a book written by the Australian Federal Police
about grooming.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
The book's called Jack Changes the Game. You sent it
through to me. I've read it.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I think that it does a really great job of
bringing the topic up. But maybe outside of my endorsement
of the book, you could describe what's going on in
the book, where you got the ideas from, and how
it's come to be.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
So the whole idea was that there was a gap
essentially that we knew that young people were vulnerable to
this type of dreaming, and one of the amazing teams
that works at ACE, called the Online Child Safety Team,
actually had the idea of a children's picture book being
part of the solution to fill that gap. They were
(03:43):
able to secure some money from an innovation fund that
the AFP set up, and they were very successful in
getting that bid up. So they took the concept and
found an author. We were given access to the notable
author tes Rowley and also the illustrator Shannon Haw's Fall,
(04:05):
and then they said about building a reference group because
at the end of the day, we're law enforcement and
we don't purport to be children education experts, and we
wanted to make sure that our message was appropriate, particularly
age appropriate.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
But that it was not fear based, and that.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It was age appropriate and evidence based most importantly, so
we had some notable academics, also.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
A victim survivor, as well as academics.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
From psychology, early childhood.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
And inclusive education areas in academia.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So that reference group was able to provide oversight and
amazing guidance to the team as the book developed, and
it was hopefully with the whole idea in mind of
being a conversation star and allowing parents the opportunity to
start a conversation about something that they might otherwise feel
(05:13):
very uncomfortable about, but something that needed to take place
given that young people are online, and we can't shay
away from the fact that young people from very very
early ages are doing things that are entirely age appropriate.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
But perhaps there are opportunities there for groomers.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
That the parents perhaps didn't fully understand.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So step me through the story. We've got a character
called Jack who is obviously online and gets approached. What
happens next in the story.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
So Jack, when he is approached, he initially feels that
he's created a really lovely bond with another person. And
this is just so common when young people think that
they've found someone online that's very like minded, that they
have some sort of connection, and they feel really validated
by that. But the messaging there, specifically for the child,
(06:08):
is that not everybody online is who they say they are.
So helping young people develop a sense to differentiate between
online and real world friendships is really critical and we
want to keep reinforcing that message that went online they
should ideally avoid talking to people that they don't actually
(06:28):
know in person. And then also Jack, as part of
the journey, actually starts to feel uncomfortable when the conversation
goes in a slightly different way. And we think it's
so critical that young people understand when something is actually
making them feel unsure or unsafe and then what to
do about it. They need to actually then reach out.
(06:50):
So we see that process where Jack actually reaches out
and he is able to see that by having a
close relationship with siblings and friends, that they're all part
of the ecosystem that can provide that support to a
young person when they do reach out, and that it's
a positive outcome when contact is made, when a problem
(07:13):
is shared, and that it all is a positive outcome
for the entire household.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I'm speaking with Detective Superintendent Jane Crossling from ACE, the
Australian senator counter Child Exploitation. The police are authors, the
police have written a book, Jack Changes the Game. It
sounds so sinister, Jane, as you talk about this setup,
I'm guessing it's based on real life. This is not
something that you fictionally created. I presume you have stories
(07:43):
like this coming through your front door every day.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We're troubled by the amount of reports that we see.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So the ACE serves as a front door for reporting
for online child sexual exploitation for Australia now, and that
includes the type of grooming behavior that we see play
out in this book. And we are not only concerned
about the volume, but the fact that it impacts on
children of every age.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Is there an age that's too young to start talking
about this? I mean, this is a book that is
it's literally a children's book. I mean you could read
it to your four year old, your five year old,
for sure. Is there an age that's too young to
talk about grooming from a police.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Standpoint, we don't think there is.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
We think that it's actually an entirely appropriate thing for
a parent or a care to do as soon as
that young person is going to be acting interacting with devices,
and particularly devices that are connected to the Internet. So
this resource is all about having early conversations which could
lead to earlier intervention should something wrong go online. And
(08:45):
because we've been very gentle in the telling of the story,
we feel that that's where the age appropriate.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Key feature of the book comes into play.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So it's really targeted for an audience of five to
eight year olds. It's designed to be led by a
parent or a care or indeed a teacher, and we
have a whole range of resources to support the book
on the website as well that includes additional material that
would help a parent, a care or a teacher in
(09:15):
how they actually speak to other aspects that might fall
out of having read through the book.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
So we in recognizing that this is.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Really really challenging for parents and cares and teachers, this
is designed to be a tool and it is just
considered an alternative way of delivering what is a really
important safety message in a way that's non confrontational. As
I said, it's a very gentle message. There's a particular
passage that's repeated that can become a little bit of
(09:48):
a catch cry, and I think you know, the authors
have done such an outstandingly good job to make the
message really accessible.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Now, Jane, the AFP are not trying to make money
off this. In fact, you have sent this book to
every school in the country. It's available on every school
library in every school around every state and every town
and every city in the country, so parents can easily
get access to it, they can get the kids to
pick it up the library, the parents can call the school.
The book is called Jack Changes the Game, and I
(10:15):
love how you mentioned before this is a conversation starter.
Now I have two more questions as we sort of
continue this conversation. My first one is how how does
a parent talk about something they know so little about already?
Where does a parent even start outside of picking up
this book from the library and having a look through
(10:36):
it and reading it to their child.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
We've been tackling that subject quite some time now.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
The Online Tide Safty team here adays have been responsible
for the think you Know initiative for some years now,
and that has been about how to start those conversations
and making it, you know, age appropriate in how they
might embark on that. The other, the other tool that
we often talk about is the notion of a family
(11:04):
online safety contract. So we've developed this contract. There's a
shared agreement between a young person of any age I
should stress and the parents to put down some expectation
around usage, but also it serves as an excellent conversation
started to talk about how that technology might be used,
(11:25):
and then also to demonstrate a commitment to talking up
if something isn't going well online. And some of the
feedback that we've received over the years about these contracts
has been so positive that it's been such a powerful agreement,
particularly where there's something to win or lose from both
(11:46):
sides of the equation, where the parents themselves also have
to make certain commitments that there's ramifications for them as well,
So that's available on the Think you Know website, but
there's also a lot of information that is age appropriate
for parents as well if they just don't know where
to start. We sometimes speak to parents and they can
get a little bit bogged down in saying that they
(12:08):
don't understand the technology, but we don't necessarily think that
that's the most critical aspect. We think it's far more
important for a parent to say that they at least
know what games, app sites, platforms that young person's on,
what they like, and what they tend to use, what
they gravitate towards, and that the parent will make it really,
(12:31):
really clear that the door is always open for communication.
We think that's much more important than parents having a
really technical understanding of whatever it is that the young
person's involved in, So we don't want parents to feel overwhelmed.
There are just some really basic things that a parent
can do, and in the context of the grooming scenario
(12:51):
that we used as the basis of the story, a
parent can actually just check whether or not the game
or the app that the young child is using does
it even have direct message function. This is one of
the most basic things that a parent can do to
feel more comfortable about the game that that person is playing.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Because if they're talking.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
To people that they don't know in the real world,
that that is cause for concern, particularly if they're the
younger children, and are they talking about the game, if
they are talking about anything, So these are sorts of
things that parents can talk about. They can consider disabling
the chat if it's not actually essential to the play
of the game. But again, if a parent isn't even
(13:33):
understanding what their young child is into and what they
typically gravitate towards, they don't know about those sorts of
really basic security measures that they can take. Privacy settings
as well allow you to control who can actually talk
to your child. These are again really simple, and there's
(13:53):
usually lots of help menus available to explain how those
sorts of settings are turned on, and even talking to
young people about critical thinking skills as they grow and mature.
These are things that are going to serve a young
person well through life, and not just in their online.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
World, but.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Just reinforcing the notion that not everybody online is who
they say they are, and working out whether or not
it's appropriate to share images personal information with people.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
When they are online.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
One of the really big red flags for us that
we see is that when young people are interacting on
an entirely age appropriate game or app or site, that
they're being asked to move to a different platform. So
again that's a really big red flag for us that
a young child should be very wary about. And it's
not necessary that the parents have to go into great
(14:47):
detail as to why that's something to be wary of,
but just that it's not appropriate and that if that
were to happen, maybe talk to mom and dad. So
there are some really basic things that a parent or
care can do in a household setting that don't mean
they have to be overwhelmed, and it doesn't mean that
they have to know the ins and outs of every
(15:07):
game that the young person's playing.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I love that advice.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You actually answered both of the questions that I was
going to ask in that one. But when I hear
you describe everything that you've shared there.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
My summary of it is just start.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Just even if you don't know what to say, just say, hey, kid,
I need to talk to you about this.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I don't even know where to start, but here's what
I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Here's what I heard on the podcast today, and I
just know that I need to keep you safe. So
let's have a chat about it. Like that's that's all
it takes to get going right.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Absolutely, And some of the feedback that we've heard from
the young people themselves is that the young people actually
feel a little bit validated if their interests are something
that the parents want to even talk about.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
So, you know, you may really your eyes make.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Glaze over if the kid's going to give you in
depth explanation of what they just did in minecraft or
roadblocks or whatever it is that they're into.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
But for a parent to show that level of interest, I.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Think from what we see, it just sort of reinforces
that a young person is okay to talk about it
and that the parents at least have a level of interest.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
In it so appreciate this conversation.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So many parents aren't aware of just how much this
can strike at the heart of it's such a terrifying thing,
quite frankly, and so many parents just aren't aware that
it is as big a deal as it is and
that their kids can be and are being approached. Detective
Superintendent Jane Crossling from the Australian Senator Counter Child Exploitation
or ACE find out more at a triple ce dot
(16:38):
gov dot a U and Jane will link to the
resource that you've mentioned in our show notes so that
parents can get hold of everything that they need to
get this going and also if they want to get
hold of the book, Jack Changes, the game should be
available in your school library. Thanks for chatting with me
about this really super important topic.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Thanks Justin, and can I just say that the book
is also available as a downloadable from the website, so
we've had already over ten thousand downloads of the book,
so yeah, that might be worth referencing as well.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
That's one hundred percent worth referencing, and we will also
find that link and share that in our show notes
as well, so that parents don't even have to go
to the school library to get ahold of it. They
can just download it and read it on their phone
with their kids. Jane, look forward to our next conversation.
A delight to be with you.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland for
Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and For
more information about making your family happier and keeping your
kids safe from grooming, check out the show notes to
this podcast episode and visit a triple ce dot gov
dot a you, orhappy families dot com dot au
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