May 22, 2023 • 19 mins
Justin & Kylie answer a listener's question about friendship difficulties
Topics included in this episode -
- The difference between boy & girl play
- Justin shares a recent study
- Boys use their bodies, girls use their words
- Friendship issue solutions
- Optionality equals resilience
- Control
- Give them the opportunity come up with their own ideas
- Contact the school
- Get to know other families
- Avoidance reinforces anxiety
Find us on Facebook at Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families
Email us your questions and comments at podcasts@happyfamilies.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just on answers Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So one of the things that I've always talked to
our kids when they're really really struggling with friends. I
can promise you that you are not the only person
who feels like this.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Oh yeah, I'm trust to be the parenting expert. You're
blowing me away today.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
and dad.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Every Tuesday on the Happy Families podcast, we dive into
our inbox podcasts at happyfamilies dot com dot au and
we carefully read your questions to see who we can
help and how when it comes to the art and
science of raising children. Hi, my name's doctor Justin Course
and I'm here with Kylie, my wife and mum to
(00:48):
our six daughters and Kylie. Today we have a question
that's come through from Karen, who says, my ten year
old daughter is having ongoing issues with her friends at school.
Does this sound like a ten year old girl thing?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I was just thinking, I don't think we've ever actually
not had one of our children dealing with this. It's
such a challenge.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It really is. So this is what she says, and
what I might do, because normally I read the whole
email and then we talk about it all at once.
What I'm thinking it might be easier to do with
this one is to actually sort of pull it apart
as we go, line by line and discuss different solutions
and different realities as we go. So she says she
(01:32):
feels her friends of being mean to her. They don't
include her in the play, they single her out, or
they say she doesn't have cool stuff. And when I
read that, I thought of all the scientific research that
shows the way that boys and girls play differently. We
know that natal males and natal females just they interact
(01:55):
in ways that are not the same. There's a fascinating
study that I came across just recently where some researchers
got a whole bunch of boys. There were eighty kids
in total, and a whole bunch of girls born boy
born girl, forty of each preschoolers aged four to five,
(02:15):
and divide them into either a boys group or a
girl's group. And then they asked them to watch a
cartoon through a viewfinder. So you remember those old fashioned
viewfinders where you put your eyes to it, then you
click the click click button, and it would take you
to the next scene and the next scene, and it
was kind of like watching a slow motion animated cartoon.
Just yeah, one of those kinds of things, Except the
way the researchers rigged this up really clever. They got
(02:39):
kids into groups of four. They said, only one person
can look through the viewfinder at a time, and they
need your help. So this has turned into a cooperative process.
One person had to turn the crank to make the
viewfinder work, and the other person had to press the
switch for the light and hold that down so that
it would work. Okay, So it was this really technologically
(03:01):
complicated thing that needed a whole lot of manipulation. You've
got one kid watching, one kid cranking the thing, and
one kid pushing the switch for the light, all at
opposite ends of the room of it. Hang on, there's
four kids in the group. You know what. The fourth
kid had to do nothing. They had to hang and
wait for their turn to do something. And each of
the four kids was going to get a chance at
doing everything. But their preschoolers, they're four and five years old,
(03:25):
and they've got to figure out how they're going to
do it together. How they're going to cooperate so that
everyone gets to turn. And what the research has found
was that overall, the boys enjoyed it more than the girls.
Just measuring how the kids were enjoying the process, boys
had a lot more fun. They laughed more, they smiled more,
and get this, they hit each other more. So they're
(03:48):
having more fun. They're laughing and they're smiling, and they're
hitting each other more because they want to be the
one that gets to watch it now or the one
who gets to watch it next. In other words, they
use their bodies a whole lot more than the girls.
In fact, researchers found that the boys pushed, pulled, or
hit their partners about six times more than the girls did. Right, Like,
this is a really physical interaction, but they had more fun.
(04:10):
The girls were no less competitive, they were just a
lot less direct. The girls made many more unfriendly commands,
and they were also much more likely to be collaborative
and share, whereas the boys weren't collaborative and sharing. It
was kind of just a competition, like who' I got
to destroy to get to do this thing? So well,
(04:31):
the boys used their bodies, the girls used their words,
and there's all this research that's been around for so
long that shows this relational versus physical, male versus felt
sorry female versus male thing. And that's what I get
when I read this email, this first line. Her friends
mean to it. They don't include her in the play,
they single her out, they say she doesn't have cool stuff.
I mean, this is all status and hierarchy and relationships
(04:52):
and consider.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Start breaking me think that, oh ten, well, I mean
we're already dealing with this.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Research shows that starts at four and five. Yet by ten,
this is where the comparison and the competition really starts
to ramp up as we lead into puberty. So Karen says,
my daughter has a sensitive soul, so everything seems to
hurt her. And I've noticed she gives her friends too
much value. Now I don't know about you, but I
read that line and I thought, oh, my goodness. Friends
(05:20):
are oxygen to all of our kids, but especially to
our girls, and this idea of giving them value. I
just how hard is it for even for us as
adults to feel like we're enough. How hard is it
for a ten year old who's just discovering competition in comparison,
how they're supposed to know themselves and know their value
on their own, they just give all their value away.
(05:40):
They empower everyone else to allow them to feel things
like that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So and that's when I think the village is so important,
you know, surrounding our kids with people who just love them,
absolutely love them, and help them to see the contrast
as they go throughout their day. You know, how do
you feel like when you're in this space with these people,
how do they make you feel comparatively to how these
(06:06):
people are making you feel. It was interesting. We had
a group of girls in our home at one point,
and I was blown away at the amount of manipulation
I was witnessing by one girl in particular. My daughter
was oblivious. Our daughter was oblivious, speaking just she was
(06:27):
completely oblivious to it. I had never seen it in
such like, just absolute vivid contrast to everyday conversations. And
we talked about it the next day and I asked
her if she noticed anything, because it was a really
emotionally challenging activity to have them all there, and she said, no, no,
(06:51):
it's not like that anyway. Over the next few months
she started to kind of open her eyes and see
things in a slightly different way and she recognized over
time that these people actually didn't make her feel good.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, Yeah, Do I get to be myself when I'm
around these people or do I have to keep on
trying to prove that I'm one of them.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Implicate somebody else's feelings to be able to be a
part of it and feel like you're a part of
the whole. So I think that one of the things
that I have found just so empowering for our kids
is just really working on the village outside of school
(07:34):
and surrounding them with people who just can love on them.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Whether it's the local surf club or the sporting groupol neighbor, Yeah,
the neighbors.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, our nine year old has fallen in love with
our neighbors. They're in their seventies, but to her, they're
like her best friends. And when she disappears, I said,
where have you been? I was just going to visit
Diane and Chris, And she goes and plays with the
cat and the dog and gets a little tree to
She just thinks it's the best.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So let's move on with bo Karen also had to say,
she said, we've just moved location six months ago, and
the excitement of the new school has now died and
the issues are building up. She doesn't want to go
to school now. She had similar issues in the old school.
So now I know the problem lies with my daughter.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, that's tricky, Well I read that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I think that we need to challenge that assumption.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I agree because we think that because we've been in
one place for six months, that the effects of the
move have well and truly passed now. And yet, just
like she's acknowledged the you know, the glitter and the
sparkle of the new school and everything has started to
wear off, and you're no longer the novelty in the
(08:44):
room because you're no longer than new kids. Somebody else
has taken your place.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
If the relationships haven't cemented, they're not even close. It
takes years sometimes, Yeah, sometimes things really do just click,
but quite often it takes a really long time for
these relationships too. When I heard that, I just thought,
when we say something like so, I now know the
problem was with my daughter, what we're unintentionally doing is
(09:09):
inferring that our child is the problem, and the child
is not the problem. The child is never the problem. Rather,
there is a problem to be solved, and our child
needs to be part of the problem solving process.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But nor are the other children?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Right, Oh, of course, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
We can acknowledge that our child's the problem or they're
the problem, but the reality is neither are. Yeah, we've
got a situation where we've got two kids trying to
navigate or more kids trying to navigate a really tricky
situation and space and time. They don't have the maturity,
they don't have the understanding half the time, and so
(09:45):
neither one of them the problem.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So as we've worked through this email from Karen, we've
already provided a handful of ideas and solutions, But what
we need to talk about is the last thing that
she's mentioned, because this is where we really dive into
the solution frame. Karen says, how do I support her?
I follow you tips, I provide a loving home so
she feels she belongs. I listen. I don't try to fix,
although sometimes I still try to. By telling you to
(10:09):
find new friends, how do I help her to build
her resilience and to learn that friends are not everything,
especially if they don't bring joy. Let's talk about how
we can help our kids if they're struggling with friendships.
When I talk to teachers in schools and I say,
what are some of the most common challenges that you're
dealing with? Friendships are at the top of the list
all the time, and particularly when it comes to girls.
(10:31):
I've got a couple of things jotted down that I
think can be useful solutions to help Karen and her
ten year old daughter and any parent whose children are
struggling with friendship issues. We've dealt with this endlessly, ongoingly
with all of our six daughters at one point or
another as they've struggled with friendships.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Our kids need to know they have options. They need
to know that they actually have a level of autonomy
and control over what's going on.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I love this. I've been in so many conversations where
I've gone to that very word optionality equals resilience. Like
when you feel like you have no options, that's where
helplessness comes in. That's where hopelessness comes in. But if
you're in a situation that feels helpless and hopeless and
then you discover, hang on, I do have an option
all of a sudden, that's where you see. That's what
(11:19):
resilience is. It's about saying I have no pathways, I'll
hang on. I can create one. I can knock down
these trees over here and smash through. I know that's
not environmentally friendly, but I can knock down these trees
and blaze my own trail. That's resilience, it's having I
just I love that you said that, and I love
how clear you were on it. Optionality is key, and
this is what happens with the ten year old who
(11:39):
feels like they have no friends, or too often they
feel like they have no options.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
What's amazing is that they're surrounded by people, but all
they can see is the one or two or three
or four people in their friend group that they want
to be friends with at all costs.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
You know, I've just had an insight and you've this.
It was not pre planned. It's literally just crashed into
my head right now. I've never pretended that high school
was a good experience for me. It was awful. And
one of the main reasons that it was awful was
I felt like I didn't have any friends. As I've
reflected on this, and I've had this thought a few times,
but never so clearly, is in the context that you've
just provided it. My biggest problem when I was in
(12:19):
high school was I wanted to be one of the
cool kids, and I desperately sought the cool kids' approval,
and I never ever got it because they knew that
I so badly wanted to be one of them, and
they knew that therefore they could treat me however they wanted,
and I was never going to be one of them.
But there were other people who I'm sure I could
(12:39):
have been friends with, but I never wanted to be
their friend. I just wanted to be a cool kid.
Now I'm not saying that's what's happening with this ten
year old, but we have blinded. I was not open
to the option of being friends with anyone else I
had to be friends with. I'm not going to mention
their names, but because who knows, maybe they listened to
Happy Family podcast today. But I just had to be
friends with them, and they didn't want to be friends
(13:01):
with me, and I couldn't see any other option. I mean,
it was just tragic.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So one of the things that I've always talked to
our kids when they're really really struggling with friends, I
can promise you that you are not the only person
who feels like this.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Oh yeah, so Mike, I'm sposed to be the parenting expert.
You're blowing me away today.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
This is a challenge to them is to go and
find somebody who's sitting on their own. Yeah, someone who
doesn't have friends. And there will be plenty of kids
in your school playground who are sitting on their own,
who don't have anyone to hang out with. The challenge
we have is that they again have the blinders and
they just want to be I.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Want to be friends with them, yeah yeah, yeah. And
just on that optionality as well, something else that we've
got pretty good science around. You were talking before about
wanting to be in control. Kids don't want to hear
our options. So if I've got a child who's really struggling,
I'm going to sit down and I'm going to have
a conversation with them that says, I know you're struggling.
(14:00):
What options do you see?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, that was the next thing on my list. So
when we talk to our kids in this situation, I
think the most important thing for them to know is
that every option is on the table. We'll talk about
it all. You want to move schools, let's talk about it.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
We've done that with our children. In a number of
times we've said to them, are you where you need
to be? Is this the right school? Now? We didn't
want to move them, but we decided that we were
going to let them make the call. And pretty much
every time they've said no, no, no, I need to stay
here because if I go somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
They've acknowledged that it's not necessarily going to be any better. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and that this is a situation that they just need
to work through. But because we've given them that option,
they feel heard, they feel validated, and they're able to
actually open up to other possibilities.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, because they sort of go, yeah, a moving school
isn't going to work. I need to stay here. It's
a really really powerful thing. So giving them, giving them
the opportunity to develop their own options, and also when
I don't have any saying okay, well that's fine, I
can think of a couple would you like to play
around with those ideas and be okay with them saying
I don't like that idea when you share it with them.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Like, they don't have to take any of your ideas. No,
But it's about recognizing that there are options. Now, let's
talk through through them.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
They're much more likely to hear your options though, once
you've given them a chance to share all of their
options with you, Like once they've said I've got this option,
this option, and this option. Now I'm out of options,
they're much more likely to listen to your options and say, hmm,
there's an idea, or they might say no because they
feel helpless and hopeless. But there are all kinds of
other things that are available.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yes, so most schools will have lunchtime clubs, activities in
the library, you know, different things that your children can
get involved in that don't necessarily fit the mold, and
very often our kids don't see them as options because
their friends aren't going there all.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The people that they want to be friends with. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Karen's wish for her child is that she will find joy.
And if as parents, we can help our children recognize
joy in their relationships, they'll be better able to find that.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, okay. A couple of other ideas. We have contacted
teachers in the past with our children's permission and ask
the teacher to send an email around of parents just
saying we have somebody who moved into the school. A
couple of months ago, they've got a child who's still
having a few struggles. Ten year old girl, ten year
old boy, whatever it is. If you have a child
who you think would be willing to have a playdate
(16:33):
on the weekend or go down to the park or
with ask the kids.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Who do you want to be friends with? You're not
obviously friends with them at the moment, who would you
like to be friends with? Why don't we have them
over for an afternoon?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, and it's a lot easier with younger kids than
older kids, But as parents, we can get to know
the other families in our kids' classrooms and that can
really help the kids to develop relationships there as well.
I think the main thing that I would also emphasize
is that avoidance reinforces anxiety. So if you've got a
child who is struggling with friendships and starting to say,
I don't want to go to school, I hate being
at school, I don't feel comfortable at school, it's really
(17:03):
important that we encourage them to go to school, because otherwise,
when we let them have the day off and then
the next day off and then the week off, it
feels so affirming, it feels so safe, it feels so
nice to not have to go to school that the
next time they have to go, it builds even more,
it gets even stronger. It's like that Amigdala goes into
massive override and the only way it can be released
(17:23):
is to be told I don't have to go, which
reinforces the cycle for the next time around. So it's
really important. While it's okay for kids to have a
mental health day now and then, it's really important that
our kids are working through these hard things and finding
solutions with a problem, solving in and finding options.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think the last thing I'd say is, if this
is a real struggle, including your child's teacher in this
process is really important. There have been times where it
has been acknowledged that this is an ongoing issue for
a lot of kids in the class, and so as
a cohort they have actually dealt with friendship challenges in
(18:02):
a really proactive way without singling out specific children. But also,
your teacher is going to see your child in a
totally different light and be able to sometimes.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Well, hopefully they'll have a whole lot more empathy and
love and gentleness for that kid and give them some
more support.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, but sometimes they can also kind of add to
the picture as well and share things that you are
not aware of that would be helpful.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Podcasts at happy families dot com. You that's podcasts with
an ess at happy families dot com dot you if
you would like us to help you with one of
those parenting problems that are perplexing you, Karen, We really
hope that this has been a helpful response to your
email and that it helps you with your ten year old.
The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for
(18:51):
more about making your family happy, you can visit us
at happy families dot com dot you
It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
time poor parent who just on answers Now.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So one of the things that I've always talked to
our kids when they're really really struggling with friends. I
can promise you that you are not the only person
who feels like this.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Oh yeah, I'm trust to be the parenting expert. You're
blowing me away today.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
and dad.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Every Tuesday on the Happy Families podcast, we dive into
our inbox podcasts at happyfamilies dot com dot au and
we carefully read your questions to see who we can
help and how when it comes to the art and
science of raising children. Hi, my name's doctor Justin Course
and I'm here with Kylie, my wife and mum to
(00:48):
our six daughters and Kylie. Today we have a question
that's come through from Karen, who says, my ten year
old daughter is having ongoing issues with her friends at school.
Does this sound like a ten year old girl thing?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I was just thinking, I don't think we've ever actually
not had one of our children dealing with this. It's
such a challenge.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It really is. So this is what she says, and
what I might do, because normally I read the whole
email and then we talk about it all at once.
What I'm thinking it might be easier to do with
this one is to actually sort of pull it apart
as we go, line by line and discuss different solutions
and different realities as we go. So she says she
(01:32):
feels her friends of being mean to her. They don't
include her in the play, they single her out, or
they say she doesn't have cool stuff. And when I
read that, I thought of all the scientific research that
shows the way that boys and girls play differently. We
know that natal males and natal females just they interact
(01:55):
in ways that are not the same. There's a fascinating
study that I came across just recently where some researchers
got a whole bunch of boys. There were eighty kids
in total, and a whole bunch of girls born boy
born girl, forty of each preschoolers aged four to five,
(02:15):
and divide them into either a boys group or a
girl's group. And then they asked them to watch a
cartoon through a viewfinder. So you remember those old fashioned
viewfinders where you put your eyes to it, then you
click the click click button, and it would take you
to the next scene and the next scene, and it
was kind of like watching a slow motion animated cartoon.
Just yeah, one of those kinds of things, Except the
way the researchers rigged this up really clever. They got
(02:39):
kids into groups of four. They said, only one person
can look through the viewfinder at a time, and they
need your help. So this has turned into a cooperative process.
One person had to turn the crank to make the
viewfinder work, and the other person had to press the
switch for the light and hold that down so that
it would work. Okay, So it was this really technologically
(03:01):
complicated thing that needed a whole lot of manipulation. You've
got one kid watching, one kid cranking the thing, and
one kid pushing the switch for the light, all at
opposite ends of the room of it. Hang on, there's
four kids in the group. You know what. The fourth
kid had to do nothing. They had to hang and
wait for their turn to do something. And each of
the four kids was going to get a chance at
doing everything. But their preschoolers, they're four and five years old,
(03:25):
and they've got to figure out how they're going to
do it together. How they're going to cooperate so that
everyone gets to turn. And what the research has found
was that overall, the boys enjoyed it more than the girls.
Just measuring how the kids were enjoying the process, boys
had a lot more fun. They laughed more, they smiled more,
and get this, they hit each other more. So they're
(03:48):
having more fun. They're laughing and they're smiling, and they're
hitting each other more because they want to be the
one that gets to watch it now or the one
who gets to watch it next. In other words, they
use their bodies a whole lot more than the girls.
In fact, researchers found that the boys pushed, pulled, or
hit their partners about six times more than the girls did. Right, Like,
this is a really physical interaction, but they had more fun.
(04:10):
The girls were no less competitive, they were just a
lot less direct. The girls made many more unfriendly commands,
and they were also much more likely to be collaborative
and share, whereas the boys weren't collaborative and sharing. It
was kind of just a competition, like who' I got
to destroy to get to do this thing? So well,
(04:31):
the boys used their bodies, the girls used their words,
and there's all this research that's been around for so
long that shows this relational versus physical, male versus felt
sorry female versus male thing. And that's what I get
when I read this email, this first line. Her friends
mean to it. They don't include her in the play,
they single her out, they say she doesn't have cool stuff.
I mean, this is all status and hierarchy and relationships
(04:52):
and consider.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Start breaking me think that, oh ten, well, I mean
we're already dealing with this.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Research shows that starts at four and five. Yet by ten,
this is where the comparison and the competition really starts
to ramp up as we lead into puberty. So Karen says,
my daughter has a sensitive soul, so everything seems to
hurt her. And I've noticed she gives her friends too
much value. Now I don't know about you, but I
read that line and I thought, oh, my goodness. Friends
(05:20):
are oxygen to all of our kids, but especially to
our girls, and this idea of giving them value. I
just how hard is it for even for us as
adults to feel like we're enough. How hard is it
for a ten year old who's just discovering competition in comparison,
how they're supposed to know themselves and know their value
on their own, they just give all their value away.
(05:40):
They empower everyone else to allow them to feel things
like that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So and that's when I think the village is so important,
you know, surrounding our kids with people who just love them,
absolutely love them, and help them to see the contrast
as they go throughout their day. You know, how do
you feel like when you're in this space with these people,
how do they make you feel comparatively to how these
(06:06):
people are making you feel. It was interesting. We had
a group of girls in our home at one point,
and I was blown away at the amount of manipulation
I was witnessing by one girl in particular. My daughter
was oblivious. Our daughter was oblivious, speaking just she was
(06:27):
completely oblivious to it. I had never seen it in
such like, just absolute vivid contrast to everyday conversations. And
we talked about it the next day and I asked
her if she noticed anything, because it was a really
emotionally challenging activity to have them all there, and she said, no, no,
(06:51):
it's not like that anyway. Over the next few months
she started to kind of open her eyes and see
things in a slightly different way and she recognized over
time that these people actually didn't make her feel good.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, Yeah, Do I get to be myself when I'm
around these people or do I have to keep on
trying to prove that I'm one of them.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Implicate somebody else's feelings to be able to be a
part of it and feel like you're a part of
the whole. So I think that one of the things
that I have found just so empowering for our kids
is just really working on the village outside of school
(07:34):
and surrounding them with people who just can love on them.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Whether it's the local surf club or the sporting groupol neighbor, Yeah,
the neighbors.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, our nine year old has fallen in love with
our neighbors. They're in their seventies, but to her, they're
like her best friends. And when she disappears, I said,
where have you been? I was just going to visit
Diane and Chris, And she goes and plays with the
cat and the dog and gets a little tree to
She just thinks it's the best.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So let's move on with bo Karen also had to say,
she said, we've just moved location six months ago, and
the excitement of the new school has now died and
the issues are building up. She doesn't want to go
to school now. She had similar issues in the old school.
So now I know the problem lies with my daughter.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, that's tricky, Well I read that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I think that we need to challenge that assumption.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I agree because we think that because we've been in
one place for six months, that the effects of the
move have well and truly passed now. And yet, just
like she's acknowledged the you know, the glitter and the
sparkle of the new school and everything has started to
wear off, and you're no longer the novelty in the
(08:44):
room because you're no longer than new kids. Somebody else
has taken your place.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
If the relationships haven't cemented, they're not even close. It
takes years sometimes, Yeah, sometimes things really do just click,
but quite often it takes a really long time for
these relationships too. When I heard that, I just thought,
when we say something like so, I now know the
problem was with my daughter, what we're unintentionally doing is
(09:09):
inferring that our child is the problem, and the child
is not the problem. The child is never the problem. Rather,
there is a problem to be solved, and our child
needs to be part of the problem solving process.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But nor are the other children?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Right, Oh, of course, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
We can acknowledge that our child's the problem or they're
the problem, but the reality is neither are. Yeah, we've
got a situation where we've got two kids trying to
navigate or more kids trying to navigate a really tricky
situation and space and time. They don't have the maturity,
they don't have the understanding half the time, and so
(09:45):
neither one of them the problem.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So as we've worked through this email from Karen, we've
already provided a handful of ideas and solutions, But what
we need to talk about is the last thing that
she's mentioned, because this is where we really dive into
the solution frame. Karen says, how do I support her?
I follow you tips, I provide a loving home so
she feels she belongs. I listen. I don't try to fix,
although sometimes I still try to. By telling you to
(10:09):
find new friends, how do I help her to build
her resilience and to learn that friends are not everything,
especially if they don't bring joy. Let's talk about how
we can help our kids if they're struggling with friendships.
When I talk to teachers in schools and I say,
what are some of the most common challenges that you're
dealing with? Friendships are at the top of the list
all the time, and particularly when it comes to girls.
(10:31):
I've got a couple of things jotted down that I
think can be useful solutions to help Karen and her
ten year old daughter and any parent whose children are
struggling with friendship issues. We've dealt with this endlessly, ongoingly
with all of our six daughters at one point or
another as they've struggled with friendships.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Our kids need to know they have options. They need
to know that they actually have a level of autonomy
and control over what's going on.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I love this. I've been in so many conversations where
I've gone to that very word optionality equals resilience. Like
when you feel like you have no options, that's where
helplessness comes in. That's where hopelessness comes in. But if
you're in a situation that feels helpless and hopeless and
then you discover, hang on, I do have an option
all of a sudden, that's where you see. That's what
(11:19):
resilience is. It's about saying I have no pathways, I'll
hang on. I can create one. I can knock down
these trees over here and smash through. I know that's
not environmentally friendly, but I can knock down these trees
and blaze my own trail. That's resilience, it's having I
just I love that you said that, and I love
how clear you were on it. Optionality is key, and
this is what happens with the ten year old who
(11:39):
feels like they have no friends, or too often they
feel like they have no options.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
What's amazing is that they're surrounded by people, but all
they can see is the one or two or three
or four people in their friend group that they want
to be friends with at all costs.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
You know, I've just had an insight and you've this.
It was not pre planned. It's literally just crashed into
my head right now. I've never pretended that high school
was a good experience for me. It was awful. And
one of the main reasons that it was awful was
I felt like I didn't have any friends. As I've
reflected on this, and I've had this thought a few times,
but never so clearly, is in the context that you've
just provided it. My biggest problem when I was in
(12:19):
high school was I wanted to be one of the
cool kids, and I desperately sought the cool kids' approval,
and I never ever got it because they knew that
I so badly wanted to be one of them, and
they knew that therefore they could treat me however they wanted,
and I was never going to be one of them.
But there were other people who I'm sure I could
(12:39):
have been friends with, but I never wanted to be
their friend. I just wanted to be a cool kid.
Now I'm not saying that's what's happening with this ten
year old, but we have blinded. I was not open
to the option of being friends with anyone else I
had to be friends with. I'm not going to mention
their names, but because who knows, maybe they listened to
Happy Family podcast today. But I just had to be
friends with them, and they didn't want to be friends
(13:01):
with me, and I couldn't see any other option. I mean,
it was just tragic.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So one of the things that I've always talked to
our kids when they're really really struggling with friends, I
can promise you that you are not the only person
who feels like this.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Oh yeah, so Mike, I'm sposed to be the parenting expert.
You're blowing me away today.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
This is a challenge to them is to go and
find somebody who's sitting on their own. Yeah, someone who
doesn't have friends. And there will be plenty of kids
in your school playground who are sitting on their own,
who don't have anyone to hang out with. The challenge
we have is that they again have the blinders and
they just want to be I.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Want to be friends with them, yeah yeah, yeah. And
just on that optionality as well, something else that we've
got pretty good science around. You were talking before about
wanting to be in control. Kids don't want to hear
our options. So if I've got a child who's really struggling,
I'm going to sit down and I'm going to have
a conversation with them that says, I know you're struggling.
(14:00):
What options do you see?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, that was the next thing on my list. So
when we talk to our kids in this situation, I
think the most important thing for them to know is
that every option is on the table. We'll talk about
it all. You want to move schools, let's talk about it.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
We've done that with our children. In a number of
times we've said to them, are you where you need
to be? Is this the right school? Now? We didn't
want to move them, but we decided that we were
going to let them make the call. And pretty much
every time they've said no, no, no, I need to stay
here because if I go somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
They've acknowledged that it's not necessarily going to be any better. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and that this is a situation that they just need
to work through. But because we've given them that option,
they feel heard, they feel validated, and they're able to
actually open up to other possibilities.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, because they sort of go, yeah, a moving school
isn't going to work. I need to stay here. It's
a really really powerful thing. So giving them, giving them
the opportunity to develop their own options, and also when
I don't have any saying okay, well that's fine, I
can think of a couple would you like to play
around with those ideas and be okay with them saying
I don't like that idea when you share it with them.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Like, they don't have to take any of your ideas. No,
But it's about recognizing that there are options. Now, let's
talk through through them.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
They're much more likely to hear your options though, once
you've given them a chance to share all of their
options with you, Like once they've said I've got this option,
this option, and this option. Now I'm out of options,
they're much more likely to listen to your options and say, hmm,
there's an idea, or they might say no because they
feel helpless and hopeless. But there are all kinds of
other things that are available.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yes, so most schools will have lunchtime clubs, activities in
the library, you know, different things that your children can
get involved in that don't necessarily fit the mold, and
very often our kids don't see them as options because
their friends aren't going there all.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The people that they want to be friends with. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Karen's wish for her child is that she will find joy.
And if as parents, we can help our children recognize
joy in their relationships, they'll be better able to find that.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, okay. A couple of other ideas. We have contacted
teachers in the past with our children's permission and ask
the teacher to send an email around of parents just
saying we have somebody who moved into the school. A
couple of months ago, they've got a child who's still
having a few struggles. Ten year old girl, ten year
old boy, whatever it is. If you have a child
who you think would be willing to have a playdate
(16:33):
on the weekend or go down to the park or
with ask the kids.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Who do you want to be friends with? You're not
obviously friends with them at the moment, who would you
like to be friends with? Why don't we have them
over for an afternoon?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, and it's a lot easier with younger kids than
older kids, But as parents, we can get to know
the other families in our kids' classrooms and that can
really help the kids to develop relationships there as well.
I think the main thing that I would also emphasize
is that avoidance reinforces anxiety. So if you've got a
child who is struggling with friendships and starting to say,
I don't want to go to school, I hate being
at school, I don't feel comfortable at school, it's really
(17:03):
important that we encourage them to go to school, because otherwise,
when we let them have the day off and then
the next day off and then the week off, it
feels so affirming, it feels so safe, it feels so
nice to not have to go to school that the
next time they have to go, it builds even more,
it gets even stronger. It's like that Amigdala goes into
massive override and the only way it can be released
(17:23):
is to be told I don't have to go, which
reinforces the cycle for the next time around. So it's
really important. While it's okay for kids to have a
mental health day now and then, it's really important that
our kids are working through these hard things and finding
solutions with a problem, solving in and finding options.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think the last thing I'd say is, if this
is a real struggle, including your child's teacher in this
process is really important. There have been times where it
has been acknowledged that this is an ongoing issue for
a lot of kids in the class, and so as
a cohort they have actually dealt with friendship challenges in
(18:02):
a really proactive way without singling out specific children. But also,
your teacher is going to see your child in a
totally different light and be able to sometimes.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Well, hopefully they'll have a whole lot more empathy and
love and gentleness for that kid and give them some
more support.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, but sometimes they can also kind of add to
the picture as well and share things that you are
not aware of that would be helpful.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Podcasts at happy families dot com. You that's podcasts with
an ess at happy families dot com dot you if
you would like us to help you with one of
those parenting problems that are perplexing you, Karen, We really
hope that this has been a helpful response to your
email and that it helps you with your ten year old.
The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for
(18:51):
more about making your family happy, you can visit us
at happy families dot com dot you
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