November 29, 2024 • 40 mins
Bernie explains why tanking in NFL never works out for teams that think they need to tank their season away to rebuild for the following season. Bernie then dives into Black Friday Do’s and Don’ts!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, thanks for listening to the Ben Maler Show podcast.
It's me Ben. Be sure to catch us live every
weeknight from two to six Eastern eleven pm to three
am Pacific right here on Fox Sports Radio. You can
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's get this, you're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
That's right. You heard the man Ben malorshow keeps rolling
right along. My name is Bernie Frattle. I'm in for
Benmallard tonight. We are comedy line from the trek dot
com studios here in Las Vegas Fox Sports Radio. Tyreck
dot com will help you get there an unmatched selection,
fast free shipping for your own acer protection, and over
(00:49):
ten thousand recommend an installers tyret dot com the way
tire buying should be. I'm gonna dive into a subject
matter here that I you start to hear about typically
around this time of the NFL season, but you also
hear about the NBA tanking. By the way, if you
wish to pine jump in tonight and argue with me,
(01:12):
because I'm about to make a case why I believe
tanking is the dumbest thing you could ever do. I
don't know when it works. Prove me wrong. When the
hell has it ever worked? Is a fan? Do you
like it? Does it make sense? I know you think
you're playing chess when everybody else is playing checkers, but
I'm not buying it, Okay eight seven seven nine nine
six sixty three six nine eight seven seven nine to
(01:32):
nine one fox If you think tanking is a good
idea or or you agree with me, because every time
I hear the term tanking in the NFL, my teeth ititch.
I don't think it works. And frankly, the mere notion
of it begs the image of a fish bet or
in a poker game trying to get a single card
to complete an inside straight. Really, what are the odds
(01:53):
talked about that earlier? Do you really want to be
that guy needle in a haystack bet banking on it?
You really want to be that guy shooting babies at
the moon? See, because no matter how you look at it,
the losing teams in the National Football League are always
staring at some sort of rebuild. In the face of
a rebuild, and they're stirring it in the face. But
(02:15):
tanking is not what you think it is. I say
that because it does not work in the NFL. Yeah,
I get it. You're smarter than me, So lose now
so that you can win later. That's the thought behind tanky.
Now that would seem reasonable, maybe that if a team
can't go any higher, why not position yourself for future success.
(02:36):
Because many refuse to admit they're committing the handisack. But
wouldn't you rather lose now to acquire draft capital tomorrow.
I'm being a little facetious. This is all well and good,
but that assumes that the first round of any draft
offers any degree of certainty or surety. Wasn't that long ago?
(02:57):
Remember tank for Trevor, suck for Luck, even Marcus Mariota
sucked for the duck. Remember that how that work out?
These teams earn the right to pick those guys, and
they're all starting different quarterbacks. Now none are with the team.
You know, they're not even a league, So Mariota might
(03:18):
be as a backup. But if you go back to
nineteen ninety nine, only one of the twenty eight quarterbacks
selected in the top five he has ever let his
team do a Super Bowl victory, and that would be
Eli Manning. Fourteen to the twenty eight have a losing
record and only two have an MVP. That's not a
lot of success for quote, I can't miss prospect now
(03:38):
I get it. A first round pick. By all measure,
he's a very good football player. But scotting in the
NFL is about as much luck as it is science.
It's an inexact art, and it's an inexact science because
there's a perpetual swirl of uncertainty that completely surrounds every
NFL draft, And according to a study back in twenty eighteen,
there's only a fifty three percent chainants that a first
(04:01):
round draft pick even works out. Really like those odds.
But if the doctor said, hey, your physical was good,
you got a fifty three percent chance of live in
next year, Yeah, how's that going to go over? There's
absolutely no guarantee those players will actually work out. So
why blow up everything for the chance to get somebody
who's got a fifty three percent chance of working out.
(04:23):
What is guaranteed is there's always going to be plenty
of star power throughout the draft and throughout the first round.
Guys like Patrick Mahomes, JJ Watt way back when even
to Shaun Watson he was very coveted, right Aaron Donald,
Lamar Jackson. All of them were picked outside the top ten.
(04:44):
What teams really need to worry about is getting a
general manager that can find those diamonds in the rough
and pair of them with a coach that can turn
those selections and do professionals that can win NFL games.
Now that decision is not up to the players, So
why not just play your best football every week? Attrack
top management, track top coaching. The guys are paid to
(05:06):
win football games. And that gets me into my next point,
which I just said when late November rules around every year,
teams approach a disappointing stage of the season where doesn't
look look they have much to play further than pride
in their paycheck because in terms of a playoff aspiration,
it's out the window. But these are still professional athletes.
(05:29):
They're paid to play football at the highest level every
single week, and trust me, they're always looking to take
your place if you don't show up. They're paid to
play football at the highest level every single week. To
ask them not to play their best is insulting, not
to mention the odds of injury. Well, that increases exponentially
(05:50):
when a player doesn't play hard. Okay, you don't want
your offensive lineman taking plays off and now not implying
any of these guys do that. I just am railing
against this theory that tanking is some great strategy that
if you don't do it, you must be stupid, like
the analytics nerds. Nothing against analytics. I understand they have
(06:10):
a partner in the game, but for me, analytics are
always a guideline. They're not an inflexible anchor. He can't
just do it every time blindly. Okay, by the way,
in the NFL, it's not the major leagues where you
can pitch your minor league arm and have the other
team run up to score, right then your eer goes up.
But people don't get hurt. Football is a high collision sport.
(06:32):
It's a violent sport that requires everybody go full go
at all times. And these guys want their job security.
They're playing for jobs every week, and the only good
thing Rod Marinelli ever said. He was the head coach
of the Lions in two thousand and eight when they
went oh to sixteen. He said one hundred percent of
what you do is observed one hundre percent of the
time by somebody. It's usually on tape. Everything you do
(06:53):
is going to be on tape. So even if the
team you're playing for now may have designs on moving
you on, someone else else might see you on taping.
Like you, no one ultimately knows who's going to be
on the active roster next week, much less next year,
much less next season. You get the picture. With that
being the case, these guys are always playing for their
next contract. That's their job. They're going to have to
(07:15):
compete at the highest level. The competitive edge is how
you survive in this league. You can't tank. It's stupid
and I don't get how someone can cheer for teams
to admit defeat. Just toss it up. Tanking just does
not work in the NFL. If it did, why have
the same concoction of teams that fail to make something
out of it. Because it doesn't seem to work. It
becomes a culture. I hate to say it. There's a
(07:37):
good reason teams like the Jets and the Browns and
the Raiders and the Jaguars, they can't seem to get
out of their rut. These are teams that have lost
for so long they just seem to be incapable of
getting out of their rut. And how many fans would
want that for their home team? Think about it. I'm
gonna say it again. Tanking in the NFL simply does
not work. It doesn't it in the NBA, even though
(08:01):
I'm dubious there too, But it does not succeed the
way it does in the NBA. And here's why. Very simple.
The season's too short. Okay, if you take a high
school stats class, you know probabilities hold true over large
sample sizes. You flip a coin. If you flip at
one hundred and fifty times or two hundred, you have
a fifty percent chance of getting heads tails. And you
(08:24):
know that because there's only two options, right. But that
doesn't mean if you flip a coin ten times you
get five heads and five tails. You could get seven
or zero or eight or row or whatever. So where's
my point? Seventeen games in the NFL used to be
sixteen games is not a big sample size. There's room
for a massive error that affects the NFL draft order.
Consider the NBA. You got eighty two regular season games.
(08:46):
There's so many more opportunities for bad teams to be
bad and good teams to be good. The bad teams
lose games, the good teams win games. The draft order
shakes out sort of an accurate model of which teams
are supposed to be better than others than get you know,
draft lower versus higher, et cet. But in the NFL
there aren't many games to correct that error. As such,
there's a lot of randomness in determining an NFL draft
(09:07):
and determining an NFL draft order. All right, you might
getting the number three pick instead of the number one pick. Look,
the Bear's got Caleb Williams. There's already questions. So tanking
stupid plus losing. It's hard because the players are damn good.
(09:27):
You got thirty two rosters, fifty three players. You've got
only seventeen hundred players in the world. You know, three
hundred lineman, one hundred and sixty cornerbacks. Are all of
them good? You're damn right, all of them are great.
You cannot be on an NFL roster without being a beast. Now,
just to be fair philosophically, I do understand there are
(09:50):
perceived advantages of tanking in the NFL. There's no lottery
in the NFL. No teams are tanking the NBA and
the NHL. You know, we see a top pick as
returned for the effort. Look, we talked about the Sixers
earlier with Mark Medina. They've spent many years tank you
but only earned one first overall pick throughout the lottery
Ben Simmons, and he missed his entire rookie season with
(10:11):
a foot injury. And there've been other teams that have
tried this in hockey, the Buffalo Sabers, the Arizona Coyotes,
the Edmonton Oilers. Okay, the Sabers got Jack Eichel, did
nothing with him, ends up with the Las Vegas or
the Vegas Golden Knights. He wins to Stanley Cup. I
think Buffalo feels about that good. The one good thing
about the NFL, if you find yourself a superstar, likely
(10:33):
you're on their team for life. It's not it's not
a guarantee, but it's one of those things that the
NFL players don't move nearly as much. If they're superstars.
They have a tendency to stay with one team. Right. Also,
high draft picks have made more trade value in the
NFL than they do in the NBA. So the bottom
line is tanking doesn't work all right. Last thing I'll
(10:57):
say on this, it's hard to turn NFL team around
with one player, right, even committed NBA teams don't want
to talk about that for multiple reasons. Don't want to
tank for multiple reasons. The ideal tank chap would be
like San Antonio Spurs. They were great for a decade,
then they lose David Robinson for most of one season,
(11:17):
and then they win twenty and sixty two and end
up with a first overall pack pick, and they get
Tim Duncan. The rest is history. That's an outlier. By
the way, It's far more difficult to scout and develop
loan NFL players that can help turn a team around
worth tanking for like you might for an NBA player.
So it raises the ultimate question, should teams tank in
(11:39):
the NFL? Not know? Hell? No, Tanking is a philosophy
that exists because the upside in theory might be obvious.
Teams need superstars to compete. The best way for teams
like that. You know, the seventy six ers and the
Astros and Cubs did at one point to get those
stars in the draft. But it's not a fool proof philosophy.
(12:01):
It fails most of the time. I think, if you are,
you know, all for tanking, you're first aligned for a
front of the body. It just doesn't work. I'm talking
about the NFL. Now, disagree with me, Give me a call.
Eight seven, seven ninety nine on Fox coming up. It's
it's Black Friday. You know what it is. I bet you.
(12:21):
Right now as we speak, there are people lined up
at stores. You know, it's four thirteen am Eastern time.
You get the drift, maybe even here. I don't know.
They do it. I don't I would never do it,
but they do it. What's interesting is I believe it's
good housekeeping. They identified the most annoying Black Friday shoppers
(12:42):
and the habits. I can't speak to this because I'm
not a Black Friday shopper. But I'll go through these
and we'll have Lorano and Brianna check in and see
if these make sense. I don't know, I'm out on
an island here, or maybe they got a couple of
their own.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Be sure to live editions of The Ben Maller Show
weekdays at two am Eastern eleven PM Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
You know, the great actress Lily Tomlin once said, I
always wanted to be somebody. I just wish I'd been
more specific. You want to be somebody. Listen to The
Ben Mahler Show featuring Bill Miller and Ben Maller in
a cast of thousands. Ben is off tonight. I'm Bernie
(13:31):
Fraddle cit again for Ben Maller, coming to you live
from thee trek dot Com studios here in Las Vegas.
Lots of stuff to get to before I get into
my little Black Friday extravaganzel, which I know nothing about.
Let's welcome in Manuel from Guardina Manuel. How you doing, buddy,
Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Black Friday and everything that goes along
(13:52):
with it.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Section game, Shane reaction, lazy mud. It takes so much
to me, so far happy Thanks Bernie.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Right back at you today.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Well, I got to tell you, man, you always bring
it and uh you know you come on, we get
six hundred affiliates. I heard, uh serious sex and you
you have no no shaming game. I love that, dude.
Let's just let's just call like it is. Man. Well,
you got balls. I don't want to see him. I
(14:33):
don't want to see him, but I know you got balls,
so you got the floor. Man, Well take us.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Away, Hey, Bernie, that is like the utmost respect, you know,
I'll take it, manholeness from chi wah wah. Hey. So
what I was gonna tell you, man, you hit a
couple of golden, golden subjects today that I want to
touch on the NFL Chainky, you are so right about that.
(14:59):
I mean, I'm a Raider fan since the early eighties,
so I've seen this tanking firsthand and it doesn't work.
I wish that we would get I mean, we've had
our little glimpses. You know, Big Regie was a good,
good drafter. Even Mike Mayowk had some good draft picks.
(15:21):
But for the most part, man, it has been a
barren desert when he comes to Raider drafts. So I
think you're right man, that NFL tanking, that just ain't
the way.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Man, you got to build.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And I don't get it, man, I know the pumpkin
haircut freak.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Mark Davis had dumb and dumber there.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah, you know Lloyd Christmas, man, the guy has got
the desire, he's got the money, but kind of like Pops, Man.
I mean, Pops was just the speeding and the he
he wanted too much speed and just didn't ever just
you know, you know what I mean, Like he never
put He always has a desire for the players, but
he just didn't know how to put the blueprint together.
(16:05):
And it seems like that's what's going on with Mark too, man.
And it's just it's tough to see, man, because you
know as well as I do. Greater Nations, Dan spans
from Hawaii, Miami, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Amazing when the team left Oakland, went to La came
back to Oakland, left Oakland twice another here in Vegas.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
They're loyal, never misses a beat because you know, when
it comes to the autumn wind, Man, we love our
silver and black, So your spot on them. That and
then the other thing that man, has been really really funny,
you know, because you and I are old enough to
remember when the Yankees were doing this, and the Red
(16:45):
Sox have gone period where they've done it. Hell, San
Diego has spent damn near a billion dollars two in
the last five years, but nobody ever brings none of
that up. It's just the Dodger hatred how the Dodgers
are ruining every thing. But the thing that I loved
is that what you touched on, Man, Freedman has been
(17:06):
putting this formula together, I mean, and it hasn't always
been perfect. He hasn't always had the gold come at
the end of the tunnel. But he's been putting the
formula together and it seems like he's finally cracking the code.
And what people don't realize. All the haters of Dave Roberts,
they say that he's just a turnkey manager or whatnot.
(17:29):
Dave Roberts has been the ultimate fit for this regime.
You know as well as I do. This ain't the
days of early Brian Cashman, of Bob Watson. This is
a totally different philosophy in baseball and the base and
the Dodgers were smart enough to find the exact two
people that were the right people to put this blueprint
(17:52):
into play. And I think, Man, there's gonna be a
lot more hatred because the Dodgers are staring at a dynasty.
If the healthy can stay healthy, we're looking at a
good run. Hey, Bernie, you know I love you, man.
I appreciate all of the compliments you always give me man.
But at the end of the day, Man, you are
the star. We appreciate you here on the blow Torch
(18:15):
and on all the Fox Sports Radio because nobody does
it like Bernie Frattle and it's the Frattle Fraternity. Love you,
my man, shouts out to Breezy, shouts out to Lorena
and all the FSR. Three.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Wow, all right, thanks man, Well appreciate you. Man. If
we can just get man will to get over the shyness,
say he's going to be just fine. Hey, James in
La checking in tonight. All the stars are coming out.
What do you got for us tonight?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
James Guardian at the beginning of the year. So shout
out to my guy Manny you know, uh, hey, we
can do that. One till makes you larger, the other
one makes you small, my brother, so we can sing
that song.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Hey, yeah, that little Jefferson airplane. Look, man, you guys,
I'm just gonnap beside uml man. Well, we got we
got Domin Dahmer, we got Joe Walsh, we got Jefferson airplane.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Hey, go ask Alice burning.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Tall.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
She's ten feet tall. All hits her right by the way.
Hang on, hang on, is your stature for good times
in great oldies. All right, coming up the huge corporation?
Do forgive me? Go ahead, James.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Yeah, I was gonna say, you're absolutely right. You guys
are absolutely right about the tanking. I can't tell you
that the hurt that Marcus Russell has put us through
that draft pick man, even though even though we have
a just win mentality, you know, Uh, it shows you
that even if he tried to tank, he gave him
(19:43):
it didn't work out. You know. You look at the
U and I'm not saying they tanked, but the undefeated
New England Patriots, they went seventeen and one or eighteen
and one. Look at the Minnesota Vikings when they had
Randall Cunningham, you know, and they went almost undefeated and
they kick a field goal at the end.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
So just because you get all these he tanked for
these uh superstar people, doesn't mean you're gonna get it.
The only team in history, and I've been watching, like Manuel,
I've been watching since when Jack Tatum hit Tammy White
in the Super Bowl so hard as grandkids can feel it.
I've been a Red fan ever since.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
The only team I remember ever in NFL history is
when the ninety four nine Ers put together a hit
squad and they had to beat Dallas and they got
every mercenary they could ever get on defense at on
offense they d in that year, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
They'd be And they went and smoked the Chargers in
the Super Bowl. It's twenty point favorites.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Yeah, exactly, and they covered it.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I believe they covered it. Yeah, forty nine twenty six.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
I think to me that that is the greatest NFL
team in history. We can argue that another day. But
the way that they went out and just hired everybody,
and then you know, Dion, to his credit, went to
Dallas the next year and shifted.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
The level of power in the nfstrict.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Yeah to the Cowboys. So but that ninety fourteen I
think was the greatest ever. And tanking doesn't work, man.
You got to go build your team. People have formulas.
They start off with the defense. They start off and
then they get you get to quarterback and you get
your defense and whatever things do you like?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Do you like?
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Belichick did it over twenty years and you see what
happened to him. He had a dynasty. You know, Kansas
City's doing it.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Now.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
They got the quarterback and everything, so there's a way
to do it, but taking is not the way. I'm
agreeing one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
With you guys. All right, good stuff, James Man will
up that next, buddy. Yep. Yeah, it's like Henry Winkler
and the water boy. What's the matter? Boy, are just stupid?
You're taking all right? Stupid Listen. I don't know anything
about this, but annoying Black Friday shoppers. This is what
they've listed. Won the dressing room hog. You say it's
(21:59):
okay to pick our clo those boots, sweaters, whatever the
hell you're looking for deals. That doesn't mean you can
claim the dressing room for the entire morning. They say,
you know, try on the things you need and the
others do the same. Okay, I'm so away from my
pay grade here, but I'm running this down. Okay, so
you got the dressing room hog. The octomom. They say,
it's probably not a good idea to take all the
(22:19):
kids with you. Hopefully there's a bag of snacks and
toys if you have the little ones. Blah blah blah.
They say, crying toddlers put a damper on shopping. Should
these people be excoriated for that. I don't know about that, man.
How about the pusher. Everybody in the store is out
to get something they have their eye on. Pushing and
shoving not acceptable, even though you are after an item
(22:41):
that seems to have a limited supply. Patients and good
manners kind of even on Black Friday. How about the
rude attitude. We can all get a little crabby and crowds.
Please don't bark at the people you're shopping. Don't snap
it together. Shoppers are on you. If you are in
the store, you set out for this experience or try
to make the best of it. So, so those are
the first four. The rude attitude, the pusher, the octomom,
(23:03):
the dressing room hog. Lurana did any of these makes sense.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
For one who goes into a dressing room on Black Friday?
You do not have time to try things on. I
took my daughter to the stores that I'm interested in
tomorrow early, and I said, try everything on now and
then we'll go. I'll go on Friday and just get
it because we're not going to waste our time and
lose out on other deals. That just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
To me, all right, So that one, Brianna, these first four.
Speaker 7 (23:33):
I definitely agree with the rude toward like being rude.
I also do like, don't be rude to the people
working there, like they're already working on Black Friday, Like,
don't be rude towards them.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
I hate thought. Look, everyone needs a job in this
economy right now. Okay, I'm kidding. My dad used to
work at Walmart, though, and he said that Black Fridays
were always so entertaining because people are crazy and just
nuts out there. And I thought, when I was younger,
Black Friday was actually fun. Right, you didn't have online shopping.
You would look in the magazines and be like, Okay,
(24:02):
we're getting this, we're getting this, we're getting this. You'd
go with your grandma and you would take the grandkids
because you would send them to different parts of Walmart
to get the different things. Right, It's part of the fun.
The madness is part of the crazy. I've seen people
take stuff out of carts and I'm like, yeah, get them,
get them. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
People get violent though, that's when it's.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Like people throw them down.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I mean, as they should should be.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
People fighting over the new video game. All right, let's
move on there's a few more here, all right. This
one's called the Starbucks a haulic. Apparently, you know, if
you're gonna get up early, you're gonna be injected to caffeine. Right.
They say the key to surviving Black Friday is to
get some. But some of these coming in a little
more jinnier than they need to be, and they kind
of stand out. Then there's the slow pope. See, there's
(24:48):
no dilly dally on Black Friday. Most people have more
than one stop to make. Some people have a specific
game plan they won't appreciate. They don't want to wait
behind you in line. If you can't make up your mind.
Then there's the bad parker. Most of the parking lots
on Black Friday overflowing. Some stores might even need additional parking.
Be courteous when parking and there'll be room for everyone.
So we got the bad parker, the slow poke, and
(25:10):
the Starbucks a Hali Brianna, And.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Of these makes sense, oh one hundred percent. The bad
parker is probably the worst, especially when the parking spaces
are so small that's even that's super annoying. And also
I just don't like dilly dowling and people in general.
That's not a Black Friday thing, that's just an everyday
thing when people are just super slow. It's like that's
the day where you really need to like pump up
the pace. Like we're all on a time restraint here,
(25:33):
you know.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Pacing intensity, people pacing intensity.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Pace in intensity. Where's to live by? All right? How
about this one? The extreme coupon, the extreme couponer. You
see the check our lines are the worst all day
of the year. They're the worst check out lines all year.
You try to limit your time so everyone else can
get in and get out. No one wants to get
behind the person who needs to use millions of coupon
(26:00):
or splits their payments into several cards. That's one. Then
there's the fighter their quote. This is again from the study.
There really isn't any need to push and shove by
while some people are lining up for the hot toy
this season or that new vacuum cleaner, you know, they
get a little you know what, there's no sense in
shoving or arguing. Also, who is in line first? If
(26:24):
you don't get what you came for, that's part of
the sport, which leads to the next one. This one,
I think the line cutter. Someone would do that, they'd
cut line. Everyone's here for the same purpose. Don't take
cuts and ruin someone else's shopping experience. Chances are they
have as much to accomplish as you. This is okay,
So Lorraine, we get the line cutter, the Fighter, and
the extreme coupon.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
He well, I don't think they allow coupons on Black
Fridays because it's usually that double like you're already getting
a discount. You don't get a discount on the discount.
But that would be ridiculous. Who goes regular shopping on
Black Friday? Like people are afraid of the stores on
those days. Stay home. I could not.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
The Fighter, Yes, like I said, I like that energy
the one day. It's the one day of the year
that you can be like, no, it's mine at a
store and it's completely acceptable. Embrace the culture. This is America.
We are greed.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Hello, Brianna.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
Yeah again, the extreme cuponing, I think is like a
little annoying. I think that's yeah, there's just no point.
It's you're you're already getting a deal. Everything's supposed to
be like half off or seventy five percent off or whatever. Like, really,
you're gonna save what another like twenty five cents to
like thirty five cents just because it's ten percent off.
Like that's the most annoying thing ever.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Now VJ. Husky was saying, the whole thing is a scam.
They're not You're not really saving money. Can you guys
speak to that?
Speaker 7 (27:46):
I think I think it just depends on what, like
I think, like when it comes to like technology, like
certain TVs and like video games. I mean, I guess
there might be like a little bit of discount, but
like close, I don't think now. I think now everyone's
just kind of like screwed.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
No, I've been going to the same store for about
a month and a half now every other day, and
I have seen the discounts that they've had and their
Black Friday deal they literally just had two and a
half weeks ago forty percent off the entire store.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
So yeah, yeah, they want to get the retail season
started started early, all right. So that that's basically the
list is anything but left out? Can you guys come
up with anything I above and beyond? Go ahead?
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Yeah, I have one. So I hate when people are
like kind of like behind it, behind you or near
you or just like all up in your personal space.
Like if I'm looking at something in an aisle and
somebody comes right behind me and they're just kind of
like breathing down my neck, that's just like annoying. As Yeah,
I hate that, Like what right is doing? Like I
just don't. I don't like that. Like everyone needs to
(28:46):
be like respectable of like your space and like what
you're doing. So that's like probably the most frustrating thing
for me. And it's already packed. Like I get that,
but like, at least try like personal space. It's just
too much.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Fair Lorana, and it's not my list. I don't even
know what the hell I'm talking about.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
I know, No, I.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Don't know.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
I think the whole thing of it's really fun. And
even the parking situation when you said that, it reminded
me one of the years we did it. It was
one of those late nights. I came in my pajamas,
I had my slippers on. Please brush your teeth, people,
and take showers and make sure you smell good, because
once again, we're all really close to each other in
those same baking spaces. And if you are breathing over
(29:30):
someone's shoulder, please please have brushed your teeth. No one
needs you all morning breath in their face.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
But no.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
I parked really far away one time from the Walmart
and we walked in and that parking lot was insane, insane.
Make sure you're using your blinkers and your blinders and
have your lights on and use your mirrors so that
you don't hit anyone because people are not paying attention.
Speaker 7 (29:53):
No, and they're extra aggressive. So it's like you're already
aggressive trying to get there, and then you're in the
parking and then you're inside. It's just like it's just
a high stressful situation. So try to be like mindful,
like kind full. Yeah, that's just how I feel.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
So this is basically a public service message so people
can get their act together. How much a word of it?
Speaker 6 (30:12):
How much do I think people spend on Black Friday
on average?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Well, I don't know if I don't know if there's
an average, is there? Could there? I mean, someone my
what I've always observed on Black Friday is based on
what I see in the news is the new shiny toy,
and there's only a limited amount of a number of them. Okay,
So I've seen people lined up, you know, game Stop
or some of these for a new video game or
something at three in the morning and they're lining up
(30:38):
fifty two deep and they got five in stock. Now,
I've heard people pay pay for people to cut in line,
or pay people to sit there or whatever. So I
don't know how much people spend on average, because I
always thought Black Friday was for those people looking for
that one shiny new toy it's opposed to just a
bunch of deals. But again, I don't know what I'm
talking about.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
I just I looked up an article is like people
spend between seven hundred dollars and nine hundred dollars per
person in the holiday season, is specifically Black Friday, which
is insane.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Well, the stores get a lot of that.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Do you guys have a list of people you're shopping
for this year?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I mean I don't.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
I mean so far, it's just me. I'm just buying
stuff for myself.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Well, okay, so Black Friday is upon us. Last question,
are you you participating in Black Friday which is upon us,
which is later today?
Speaker 6 (31:26):
Yeah, I'm probably I've already done. I've done previous shopping.
I did some on Wednesday this week.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
I personally am not. I did order like three things
on Amazon that would have the little Black Friday little
thing next to it, So I guess.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yes, I did so.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I guess I contributed just my way in regards to
like online shopping. But I will not be stepping foot
into like a store today, Absolutely not.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
Nope.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Well, then of course you've got the Cyber Monday right
right around the corner.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
I think they have better deals.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
Okay, I did forget about that. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
And also, the after Christmas specials are usually really good.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Two.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, well that's very true. I think, yeah, after Christmas.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
Because the stores overload on everything. They order too much,
and then they got to clear out their shelves. So
what do they do seventy five percent off? It's like
with cars, too, right, yep.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yep, all right, I'm surely well exhausted. Coming up, coming up,
you might not want to hear this, but Major League
Baseball is about to do something that really also is
not It kind of make my teeth hitch. Coming up
top of the hour, we're going to be joined by
Larry Sorenson, good friend of mine, pitch ten years in
the major leagues, including the All Star Game, so I'm
(32:37):
gonna certainly get his thoughts on this, but I'm going
to tell you what they have in mind, and I
don't like it. I don't like it, but hear me out.
I'm Bernie Fraddlewick comedy line from the Las Vegas Fox
Sports Radio Diirec dot Com Studios. Send it for Ben Maller,
keep it locked, Ben Malor Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller
Show weekdays at two am Eastern p em Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
We're gonna have to let this run. And homage to
the great Grace Slick letter rip for just a minute,
and of course credit to James in La for his reference.
And that's what you get when you listen to the
Ben Malor Show, a little bit of everything and don't
act like you don't like it. Bernie Frattle in for
(33:28):
Ben Mallard. Tonight, Ben Maller, of course, enjoying a very
nice Thanksgiving weekend. Maybe he's out at Black Friday. Maybe
he's bringing coupons and pushing people around and filling the
room with uppercuts and drinking too much Starbucks and all that.
Maybe Ben will give you a report on Sunday night
(33:49):
when he is back on Bernie Fraddle sitting in for
Ben Maller. Comingy live from the Las Vegas Fox Sports
Radio Tyraq dot com studios. Okay, coming up top of
the hour, going to be joined by Larry Sorenson, ten
year Major league pitcher. He holds a record that I
guarantee you'll never be broken. He retired nine men in
a row in the All Star Game, including several Hall
(34:11):
of Famers and one of the topics. I'm going to
get his thought on this because he pitched in the
big leagues and why am I bringing this up? Okay,
let me get to the daannpoint. You might not want
to hear this, but Major League Baseball will continue experimenting
with wait for it, robot umpires during spring training in
(34:32):
twenty twenty five, and they planned to use this challenge
system at thirteen ballparks, which will host nineteen teams now.
If successful, the challenge system involving robots could make its
way to regular season baseball games by twenty twenty six.
That's what Commissioner Rob Manfred recently said at an owners
(34:54):
meeting a couple of weeks ago. So for the system
to be implemented in Major League Baseball now, team would
need to be reached with the Major League Baseball's Umpires
Association after the collective Bargaining Agreement expires on December first. Now,
the automated umpiring system has been tested in the minor
(35:14):
leagues for five years now. There's work to be done
though in terms of determining a proper strike zone. See
the system. It's going to continue to be evaluated by
Major League Baseball this upcoming spring training, and that will
determine the appropriate next steps as to whether or not
they're going to implement this thing. Now, there's two sides
to the test eight. It's what the clubs think about
(35:35):
it and what the players think about it, and they're
going to have to sort through both of those will
get Larry's a perspective, among other things on that. I
think it's weird. It's not Look, it's not going to
be an actual robot standing there like Casey the robot
in the Twilight Zone. You'll actually have a live umpire
behind the plate. But the robot, the electronic Challenge system
(35:58):
will be calling the ballskes and then they'll signal to
the umpire and he'll, uh, you know, he'll call hell,
he'll make the official call so that the fans you
can see what was called ball strike whatever. I really,
I mean, I'm really not one hundred percent sure why
(36:19):
they're doing this. I know they want everything to be accurate.
They wanted to be perfect. But look, I played baseball
at a high enough level. It's a thinking man's game.
There were some umpires that would use a chess protector
and they didn't necessarily see the low pitch. Some umpires
didn't use a chess protector and they had maybe a
little bit different visibility. Some guys would set up inside
(36:42):
the catcher, some guys would set up outside, some directly
over the catcher. Some guys are fat, some guys it's different.
And so sometimes if you know an umpire's tendencies, I know,
betters know this in terms of ball strikes, walks, et cetera.
Pitcher zumps, hitter zumps, and they bet accordingly, you know,
(37:03):
under over bets, total bets. So I think it takes
away and elements of the game that to me is
very prevalent, and that is over the long haul, one
hundred and sixty two games, the marathon six months. You
can't finesse it. You got to you got to run
the full marathon. It rewards intelligent teams, you know, and
(37:24):
I think the Dodgers were an intelligent team that they
deserved to win the World Series last year. So look,
we'll talk about that. There's a couple subject I want
to talk about, by the way, just a couple of quickies.
There was a triple header. I didn't really get a
chance to get to this. On Thanksgiving. The Bears lost
to the Lions twenty three to twenty. The Cowboys beat
(37:46):
the Giants New York Giants twenty seven to twenty, and
Green Bay hammered Miami thirty to seventeen. There were some
takeaways you need to start to pay attention to. Because
of the six teams, only two are playoff teams. Okay,
I just don't think Miami's going to be able to
do it. And obviously the Giants are playing out the string.
The Cowboys can talk all they want, you know, they
(38:08):
think they're going to the Super Bowl where they're gonna
have to buy a ticket to get in. And so
you get the Lions and you got you know, the Packers.
You got to give it up to Jordan Love. This
was a takeaway phenomenal chemistry with his wide receivers. He
made a throw to Reid in the game. I mean,
you talk about spreading the wealth, Jordan Luff is turning
(38:30):
into one of the best quarterbacks actually kind of diversifying
his passes and his pass portfolio because he talked he
targets multiple receivers and he finds multiple receivers. He was
at it again Thursday night. He distributed the wealth. He
threw balls to Tucker Craft he had almost eighty yards,
Josh Jacobs almost eighty yards, Christian Watson almost seventy yards,
(38:51):
then Tavian Wicks. They were so good and so effective.
And Jaden Reid he found just had twenty four yards receiving,
but he had two touchdowns. And oh, by the way,
it's not just Green Bay's passing game, you know. I
think it was Manuel who said the Raiders had actually
drafted a cup. I believe Mike Mayock drafted Josh Jacobs
(39:12):
with the Raiders. Well, they let him go and they
could sure use him because watching Josh Jacobs fake out
a defender on a play in the open field as
the kind of finesse that makes him a complete full
load to deal with out of the backfield. If he
wants to be, He's a rolling ball of butcher knives.
He can juke, he can dance whether he's rushing or receiving.
(39:32):
He can also be a bruising back whenever he needs
to be. He can get you the hard yard, he
can move the chains on third down, he can punch
it in over the goal line. And that's another big
takeaway that the Packers have themselves a real weapon and
the Lions have to watch out for the Packers. The
Packers could catch the Lions in the playoffs. It could happen,
and not predicting it, but it could happen, Okay, just
(39:57):
saying coming up. Larry's Orange and Major League pitcher joined
us keep it locked you listen to the Ben Mallor
Show Bernie Fraddle sitting in for Ben Maller and Fox
and Sports Radio
Hey, thanks for listening to the Ben Maler Show podcast.
It's me Ben. Be sure to catch us live every
weeknight from two to six Eastern eleven pm to three
am Pacific right here on Fox Sports Radio. You can
find your local station for the Benmler Show over at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every night
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's get this, you're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
That's right. You heard the man Ben malorshow keeps rolling
right along. My name is Bernie Frattle. I'm in for
Benmallard tonight. We are comedy line from the trek dot
com studios here in Las Vegas Fox Sports Radio. Tyreck
dot com will help you get there an unmatched selection,
fast free shipping for your own acer protection, and over
(00:49):
ten thousand recommend an installers tyret dot com the way
tire buying should be. I'm gonna dive into a subject
matter here that I you start to hear about typically
around this time of the NFL season, but you also
hear about the NBA tanking. By the way, if you
wish to pine jump in tonight and argue with me,
(01:12):
because I'm about to make a case why I believe
tanking is the dumbest thing you could ever do. I
don't know when it works. Prove me wrong. When the
hell has it ever worked? Is a fan? Do you
like it? Does it make sense? I know you think
you're playing chess when everybody else is playing checkers, but
I'm not buying it, Okay eight seven seven nine nine
six sixty three six nine eight seven seven nine to
(01:32):
nine one fox If you think tanking is a good
idea or or you agree with me, because every time
I hear the term tanking in the NFL, my teeth ititch.
I don't think it works. And frankly, the mere notion
of it begs the image of a fish bet or
in a poker game trying to get a single card
to complete an inside straight. Really, what are the odds
(01:53):
talked about that earlier? Do you really want to be
that guy needle in a haystack bet banking on it?
You really want to be that guy shooting babies at
the moon? See, because no matter how you look at it,
the losing teams in the National Football League are always
staring at some sort of rebuild. In the face of
a rebuild, and they're stirring it in the face. But
(02:15):
tanking is not what you think it is. I say
that because it does not work in the NFL. Yeah,
I get it. You're smarter than me, So lose now
so that you can win later. That's the thought behind tanky.
Now that would seem reasonable, maybe that if a team
can't go any higher, why not position yourself for future success.
(02:36):
Because many refuse to admit they're committing the handisack. But
wouldn't you rather lose now to acquire draft capital tomorrow.
I'm being a little facetious. This is all well and good,
but that assumes that the first round of any draft
offers any degree of certainty or surety. Wasn't that long ago?
(02:57):
Remember tank for Trevor, suck for Luck, even Marcus Mariota
sucked for the duck. Remember that how that work out?
These teams earn the right to pick those guys, and
they're all starting different quarterbacks. Now none are with the team.
You know, they're not even a league, So Mariota might
(03:18):
be as a backup. But if you go back to
nineteen ninety nine, only one of the twenty eight quarterbacks
selected in the top five he has ever let his
team do a Super Bowl victory, and that would be
Eli Manning. Fourteen to the twenty eight have a losing
record and only two have an MVP. That's not a
lot of success for quote, I can't miss prospect now
(03:38):
I get it. A first round pick. By all measure,
he's a very good football player. But scotting in the
NFL is about as much luck as it is science.
It's an inexact art, and it's an inexact science because
there's a perpetual swirl of uncertainty that completely surrounds every
NFL draft, And according to a study back in twenty eighteen,
there's only a fifty three percent chainants that a first
(04:01):
round draft pick even works out. Really like those odds.
But if the doctor said, hey, your physical was good,
you got a fifty three percent chance of live in
next year, Yeah, how's that going to go over? There's
absolutely no guarantee those players will actually work out. So
why blow up everything for the chance to get somebody
who's got a fifty three percent chance of working out.
(04:23):
What is guaranteed is there's always going to be plenty
of star power throughout the draft and throughout the first round.
Guys like Patrick Mahomes, JJ Watt way back when even
to Shaun Watson he was very coveted, right Aaron Donald,
Lamar Jackson. All of them were picked outside the top ten.
(04:44):
What teams really need to worry about is getting a
general manager that can find those diamonds in the rough
and pair of them with a coach that can turn
those selections and do professionals that can win NFL games.
Now that decision is not up to the players, So
why not just play your best football every week? Attrack
top management, track top coaching. The guys are paid to
(05:06):
win football games. And that gets me into my next point,
which I just said when late November rules around every year,
teams approach a disappointing stage of the season where doesn't
look look they have much to play further than pride
in their paycheck because in terms of a playoff aspiration,
it's out the window. But these are still professional athletes.
(05:29):
They're paid to play football at the highest level every
single week, and trust me, they're always looking to take
your place if you don't show up. They're paid to
play football at the highest level every single week. To
ask them not to play their best is insulting, not
to mention the odds of injury. Well, that increases exponentially
(05:50):
when a player doesn't play hard. Okay, you don't want
your offensive lineman taking plays off and now not implying
any of these guys do that. I just am railing
against this theory that tanking is some great strategy that
if you don't do it, you must be stupid, like
the analytics nerds. Nothing against analytics. I understand they have
(06:10):
a partner in the game, but for me, analytics are
always a guideline. They're not an inflexible anchor. He can't
just do it every time blindly. Okay, by the way,
in the NFL, it's not the major leagues where you
can pitch your minor league arm and have the other
team run up to score, right then your eer goes up.
But people don't get hurt. Football is a high collision sport.
(06:32):
It's a violent sport that requires everybody go full go
at all times. And these guys want their job security.
They're playing for jobs every week, and the only good
thing Rod Marinelli ever said. He was the head coach
of the Lions in two thousand and eight when they
went oh to sixteen. He said one hundred percent of
what you do is observed one hundre percent of the
time by somebody. It's usually on tape. Everything you do
(06:53):
is going to be on tape. So even if the
team you're playing for now may have designs on moving
you on, someone else else might see you on taping.
Like you, no one ultimately knows who's going to be
on the active roster next week, much less next year,
much less next season. You get the picture. With that
being the case, these guys are always playing for their
next contract. That's their job. They're going to have to
(07:15):
compete at the highest level. The competitive edge is how
you survive in this league. You can't tank. It's stupid
and I don't get how someone can cheer for teams
to admit defeat. Just toss it up. Tanking just does
not work in the NFL. If it did, why have
the same concoction of teams that fail to make something
out of it. Because it doesn't seem to work. It
becomes a culture. I hate to say it. There's a
(07:37):
good reason teams like the Jets and the Browns and
the Raiders and the Jaguars, they can't seem to get
out of their rut. These are teams that have lost
for so long they just seem to be incapable of
getting out of their rut. And how many fans would
want that for their home team? Think about it. I'm
gonna say it again. Tanking in the NFL simply does
not work. It doesn't it in the NBA, even though
(08:01):
I'm dubious there too, But it does not succeed the
way it does in the NBA. And here's why. Very simple.
The season's too short. Okay, if you take a high
school stats class, you know probabilities hold true over large
sample sizes. You flip a coin. If you flip at
one hundred and fifty times or two hundred, you have
a fifty percent chance of getting heads tails. And you
(08:24):
know that because there's only two options, right. But that
doesn't mean if you flip a coin ten times you
get five heads and five tails. You could get seven
or zero or eight or row or whatever. So where's
my point? Seventeen games in the NFL used to be
sixteen games is not a big sample size. There's room
for a massive error that affects the NFL draft order.
Consider the NBA. You got eighty two regular season games.
(08:46):
There's so many more opportunities for bad teams to be
bad and good teams to be good. The bad teams
lose games, the good teams win games. The draft order
shakes out sort of an accurate model of which teams
are supposed to be better than others than get you know,
draft lower versus higher, et cet. But in the NFL
there aren't many games to correct that error. As such,
there's a lot of randomness in determining an NFL draft
(09:07):
and determining an NFL draft order. All right, you might
getting the number three pick instead of the number one pick. Look,
the Bear's got Caleb Williams. There's already questions. So tanking
stupid plus losing. It's hard because the players are damn good.
(09:27):
You got thirty two rosters, fifty three players. You've got
only seventeen hundred players in the world. You know, three
hundred lineman, one hundred and sixty cornerbacks. Are all of
them good? You're damn right, all of them are great.
You cannot be on an NFL roster without being a beast. Now,
just to be fair philosophically, I do understand there are
(09:50):
perceived advantages of tanking in the NFL. There's no lottery
in the NFL. No teams are tanking the NBA and
the NHL. You know, we see a top pick as
returned for the effort. Look, we talked about the Sixers
earlier with Mark Medina. They've spent many years tank you
but only earned one first overall pick throughout the lottery
Ben Simmons, and he missed his entire rookie season with
(10:11):
a foot injury. And there've been other teams that have
tried this in hockey, the Buffalo Sabers, the Arizona Coyotes,
the Edmonton Oilers. Okay, the Sabers got Jack Eichel, did
nothing with him, ends up with the Las Vegas or
the Vegas Golden Knights. He wins to Stanley Cup. I
think Buffalo feels about that good. The one good thing
about the NFL, if you find yourself a superstar, likely
(10:33):
you're on their team for life. It's not it's not
a guarantee, but it's one of those things that the
NFL players don't move nearly as much. If they're superstars.
They have a tendency to stay with one team. Right. Also,
high draft picks have made more trade value in the
NFL than they do in the NBA. So the bottom
line is tanking doesn't work all right. Last thing I'll
(10:57):
say on this, it's hard to turn NFL team around
with one player, right, even committed NBA teams don't want
to talk about that for multiple reasons. Don't want to
tank for multiple reasons. The ideal tank chap would be
like San Antonio Spurs. They were great for a decade,
then they lose David Robinson for most of one season,
(11:17):
and then they win twenty and sixty two and end
up with a first overall pack pick, and they get
Tim Duncan. The rest is history. That's an outlier. By
the way, It's far more difficult to scout and develop
loan NFL players that can help turn a team around
worth tanking for like you might for an NBA player.
So it raises the ultimate question, should teams tank in
(11:39):
the NFL? Not know? Hell? No, Tanking is a philosophy
that exists because the upside in theory might be obvious.
Teams need superstars to compete. The best way for teams
like that. You know, the seventy six ers and the
Astros and Cubs did at one point to get those
stars in the draft. But it's not a fool proof philosophy.
(12:01):
It fails most of the time. I think, if you are,
you know, all for tanking, you're first aligned for a
front of the body. It just doesn't work. I'm talking
about the NFL. Now, disagree with me, Give me a call.
Eight seven, seven ninety nine on Fox coming up. It's
it's Black Friday. You know what it is. I bet you.
(12:21):
Right now as we speak, there are people lined up
at stores. You know, it's four thirteen am Eastern time.
You get the drift, maybe even here. I don't know.
They do it. I don't I would never do it,
but they do it. What's interesting is I believe it's
good housekeeping. They identified the most annoying Black Friday shoppers
(12:42):
and the habits. I can't speak to this because I'm
not a Black Friday shopper. But I'll go through these
and we'll have Lorano and Brianna check in and see
if these make sense. I don't know, I'm out on
an island here, or maybe they got a couple of
their own.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Be sure to live editions of The Ben Maller Show
weekdays at two am Eastern eleven PM Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
You know, the great actress Lily Tomlin once said, I
always wanted to be somebody. I just wish I'd been
more specific. You want to be somebody. Listen to The
Ben Mahler Show featuring Bill Miller and Ben Maller in
a cast of thousands. Ben is off tonight. I'm Bernie
(13:31):
Fraddle cit again for Ben Maller, coming to you live
from thee trek dot Com studios here in Las Vegas.
Lots of stuff to get to before I get into
my little Black Friday extravaganzel, which I know nothing about.
Let's welcome in Manuel from Guardina Manuel. How you doing, buddy,
Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Black Friday and everything that goes along
(13:52):
with it.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Section game, Shane reaction, lazy mud. It takes so much
to me, so far happy Thanks Bernie.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Right back at you today.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Well, I got to tell you, man, you always bring
it and uh you know you come on, we get
six hundred affiliates. I heard, uh serious sex and you
you have no no shaming game. I love that, dude.
Let's just let's just call like it is. Man. Well,
you got balls. I don't want to see him. I
(14:33):
don't want to see him, but I know you got balls,
so you got the floor. Man, Well take us.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Away, Hey, Bernie, that is like the utmost respect, you know,
I'll take it, manholeness from chi wah wah. Hey. So
what I was gonna tell you, man, you hit a
couple of golden, golden subjects today that I want to
touch on the NFL Chainky, you are so right about that.
(14:59):
I mean, I'm a Raider fan since the early eighties,
so I've seen this tanking firsthand and it doesn't work.
I wish that we would get I mean, we've had
our little glimpses. You know, Big Regie was a good,
good drafter. Even Mike Mayowk had some good draft picks.
(15:21):
But for the most part, man, it has been a
barren desert when he comes to Raider drafts. So I
think you're right man, that NFL tanking, that just ain't
the way.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Man, you got to build.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And I don't get it, man, I know the pumpkin
haircut freak.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Mark Davis had dumb and dumber there.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah, you know Lloyd Christmas, man, the guy has got
the desire, he's got the money, but kind of like Pops, Man.
I mean, Pops was just the speeding and the he
he wanted too much speed and just didn't ever just
you know, you know what I mean, Like he never
put He always has a desire for the players, but
he just didn't know how to put the blueprint together.
(16:05):
And it seems like that's what's going on with Mark too, man.
And it's just it's tough to see, man, because you
know as well as I do. Greater Nations, Dan spans
from Hawaii, Miami, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Amazing when the team left Oakland, went to La came
back to Oakland, left Oakland twice another here in Vegas.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
They're loyal, never misses a beat because you know, when
it comes to the autumn wind, Man, we love our
silver and black, So your spot on them. That and
then the other thing that man, has been really really funny,
you know, because you and I are old enough to
remember when the Yankees were doing this, and the Red
(16:45):
Sox have gone period where they've done it. Hell, San
Diego has spent damn near a billion dollars two in
the last five years, but nobody ever brings none of
that up. It's just the Dodger hatred how the Dodgers
are ruining every thing. But the thing that I loved
is that what you touched on, Man, Freedman has been
(17:06):
putting this formula together, I mean, and it hasn't always
been perfect. He hasn't always had the gold come at
the end of the tunnel. But he's been putting the
formula together and it seems like he's finally cracking the code.
And what people don't realize. All the haters of Dave Roberts,
they say that he's just a turnkey manager or whatnot.
(17:29):
Dave Roberts has been the ultimate fit for this regime.
You know as well as I do. This ain't the
days of early Brian Cashman, of Bob Watson. This is
a totally different philosophy in baseball and the base and
the Dodgers were smart enough to find the exact two
people that were the right people to put this blueprint
(17:52):
into play. And I think, Man, there's gonna be a
lot more hatred because the Dodgers are staring at a dynasty.
If the healthy can stay healthy, we're looking at a
good run. Hey, Bernie, you know I love you, man.
I appreciate all of the compliments you always give me man.
But at the end of the day, Man, you are
the star. We appreciate you here on the blow Torch
(18:15):
and on all the Fox Sports Radio because nobody does
it like Bernie Frattle and it's the Frattle Fraternity. Love you,
my man, shouts out to Breezy, shouts out to Lorena
and all the FSR. Three.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Wow, all right, thanks man, Well appreciate you. Man. If
we can just get man will to get over the shyness,
say he's going to be just fine. Hey, James in
La checking in tonight. All the stars are coming out.
What do you got for us tonight?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
James Guardian at the beginning of the year. So shout
out to my guy Manny you know, uh, hey, we
can do that. One till makes you larger, the other
one makes you small, my brother, so we can sing
that song.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Hey, yeah, that little Jefferson airplane. Look, man, you guys,
I'm just gonnap beside uml man. Well, we got we
got Domin Dahmer, we got Joe Walsh, we got Jefferson airplane.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Hey, go ask Alice burning.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Tall.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
She's ten feet tall. All hits her right by the way.
Hang on, hang on, is your stature for good times
in great oldies. All right, coming up the huge corporation?
Do forgive me? Go ahead, James.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Yeah, I was gonna say, you're absolutely right. You guys
are absolutely right about the tanking. I can't tell you
that the hurt that Marcus Russell has put us through
that draft pick man, even though even though we have
a just win mentality, you know, Uh, it shows you
that even if he tried to tank, he gave him
(19:43):
it didn't work out. You know. You look at the
U and I'm not saying they tanked, but the undefeated
New England Patriots, they went seventeen and one or eighteen
and one. Look at the Minnesota Vikings when they had
Randall Cunningham, you know, and they went almost undefeated and
they kick a field goal at the end.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
So just because you get all these he tanked for
these uh superstar people, doesn't mean you're gonna get it.
The only team in history, and I've been watching, like Manuel,
I've been watching since when Jack Tatum hit Tammy White
in the Super Bowl so hard as grandkids can feel it.
I've been a Red fan ever since.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
The only team I remember ever in NFL history is
when the ninety four nine Ers put together a hit
squad and they had to beat Dallas and they got
every mercenary they could ever get on defense at on
offense they d in that year, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
They'd be And they went and smoked the Chargers in
the Super Bowl. It's twenty point favorites.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Yeah, exactly, and they covered it.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I believe they covered it. Yeah, forty nine twenty six.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
I think to me that that is the greatest NFL
team in history. We can argue that another day. But
the way that they went out and just hired everybody,
and then you know, Dion, to his credit, went to
Dallas the next year and shifted.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
The level of power in the nfstrict.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Yeah to the Cowboys. So but that ninety fourteen I
think was the greatest ever. And tanking doesn't work, man.
You got to go build your team. People have formulas.
They start off with the defense. They start off and
then they get you get to quarterback and you get
your defense and whatever things do you like?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Do you like?
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Belichick did it over twenty years and you see what
happened to him. He had a dynasty. You know, Kansas
City's doing it.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Now.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
They got the quarterback and everything, so there's a way
to do it, but taking is not the way. I'm
agreeing one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
With you guys. All right, good stuff, James Man will
up that next, buddy. Yep. Yeah, it's like Henry Winkler
and the water boy. What's the matter? Boy, are just stupid?
You're taking all right? Stupid Listen. I don't know anything
about this, but annoying Black Friday shoppers. This is what
they've listed. Won the dressing room hog. You say it's
(21:59):
okay to pick our clo those boots, sweaters, whatever the
hell you're looking for deals. That doesn't mean you can
claim the dressing room for the entire morning. They say,
you know, try on the things you need and the
others do the same. Okay, I'm so away from my
pay grade here, but I'm running this down. Okay, so
you got the dressing room hog. The octomom. They say,
it's probably not a good idea to take all the
(22:19):
kids with you. Hopefully there's a bag of snacks and
toys if you have the little ones. Blah blah blah.
They say, crying toddlers put a damper on shopping. Should
these people be excoriated for that. I don't know about that, man.
How about the pusher. Everybody in the store is out
to get something they have their eye on. Pushing and
shoving not acceptable, even though you are after an item
(22:41):
that seems to have a limited supply. Patients and good
manners kind of even on Black Friday. How about the
rude attitude. We can all get a little crabby and crowds.
Please don't bark at the people you're shopping. Don't snap
it together. Shoppers are on you. If you are in
the store, you set out for this experience or try
to make the best of it. So, so those are
the first four. The rude attitude, the pusher, the octomom,
(23:03):
the dressing room hog. Lurana did any of these makes sense.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
For one who goes into a dressing room on Black Friday?
You do not have time to try things on. I
took my daughter to the stores that I'm interested in
tomorrow early, and I said, try everything on now and
then we'll go. I'll go on Friday and just get
it because we're not going to waste our time and
lose out on other deals. That just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
To me, all right, So that one, Brianna, these first four.
Speaker 7 (23:33):
I definitely agree with the rude toward like being rude.
I also do like, don't be rude to the people
working there, like they're already working on Black Friday, Like,
don't be rude towards them.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
I hate thought. Look, everyone needs a job in this
economy right now. Okay, I'm kidding. My dad used to
work at Walmart, though, and he said that Black Fridays
were always so entertaining because people are crazy and just
nuts out there. And I thought, when I was younger,
Black Friday was actually fun. Right, you didn't have online shopping.
You would look in the magazines and be like, Okay,
(24:02):
we're getting this, we're getting this, we're getting this. You'd
go with your grandma and you would take the grandkids
because you would send them to different parts of Walmart
to get the different things. Right, It's part of the fun.
The madness is part of the crazy. I've seen people
take stuff out of carts and I'm like, yeah, get them,
get them. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
People get violent though, that's when it's.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Like people throw them down.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I mean, as they should should be.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
People fighting over the new video game. All right, let's
move on there's a few more here, all right. This
one's called the Starbucks a haulic. Apparently, you know, if
you're gonna get up early, you're gonna be injected to caffeine. Right.
They say the key to surviving Black Friday is to
get some. But some of these coming in a little
more jinnier than they need to be, and they kind
of stand out. Then there's the slow pope. See, there's
(24:48):
no dilly dally on Black Friday. Most people have more
than one stop to make. Some people have a specific
game plan they won't appreciate. They don't want to wait
behind you in line. If you can't make up your mind.
Then there's the bad parker. Most of the parking lots
on Black Friday overflowing. Some stores might even need additional parking.
Be courteous when parking and there'll be room for everyone.
So we got the bad parker, the slow poke, and
(25:10):
the Starbucks a Hali Brianna, And.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Of these makes sense, oh one hundred percent. The bad
parker is probably the worst, especially when the parking spaces
are so small that's even that's super annoying. And also
I just don't like dilly dowling and people in general.
That's not a Black Friday thing, that's just an everyday
thing when people are just super slow. It's like that's
the day where you really need to like pump up
the pace. Like we're all on a time restraint here,
(25:33):
you know.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Pacing intensity, people pacing intensity.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Pace in intensity. Where's to live by? All right? How
about this one? The extreme coupon, the extreme couponer. You
see the check our lines are the worst all day
of the year. They're the worst check out lines all year.
You try to limit your time so everyone else can
get in and get out. No one wants to get
behind the person who needs to use millions of coupon
(26:00):
or splits their payments into several cards. That's one. Then
there's the fighter their quote. This is again from the study.
There really isn't any need to push and shove by
while some people are lining up for the hot toy
this season or that new vacuum cleaner, you know, they
get a little you know what, there's no sense in
shoving or arguing. Also, who is in line first? If
(26:24):
you don't get what you came for, that's part of
the sport, which leads to the next one. This one,
I think the line cutter. Someone would do that, they'd
cut line. Everyone's here for the same purpose. Don't take
cuts and ruin someone else's shopping experience. Chances are they
have as much to accomplish as you. This is okay,
So Lorraine, we get the line cutter, the Fighter, and
the extreme coupon.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
He well, I don't think they allow coupons on Black
Fridays because it's usually that double like you're already getting
a discount. You don't get a discount on the discount.
But that would be ridiculous. Who goes regular shopping on
Black Friday? Like people are afraid of the stores on
those days. Stay home. I could not.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
The Fighter, Yes, like I said, I like that energy
the one day. It's the one day of the year
that you can be like, no, it's mine at a
store and it's completely acceptable. Embrace the culture. This is America.
We are greed.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Hello, Brianna.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
Yeah again, the extreme cuponing, I think is like a
little annoying. I think that's yeah, there's just no point.
It's you're you're already getting a deal. Everything's supposed to
be like half off or seventy five percent off or whatever. Like, really,
you're gonna save what another like twenty five cents to
like thirty five cents just because it's ten percent off.
Like that's the most annoying thing ever.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Now VJ. Husky was saying, the whole thing is a scam.
They're not You're not really saving money. Can you guys
speak to that?
Speaker 7 (27:46):
I think I think it just depends on what, like
I think, like when it comes to like technology, like
certain TVs and like video games. I mean, I guess
there might be like a little bit of discount, but
like close, I don't think now. I think now everyone's
just kind of like screwed.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
No, I've been going to the same store for about
a month and a half now every other day, and
I have seen the discounts that they've had and their
Black Friday deal they literally just had two and a
half weeks ago forty percent off the entire store.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
So yeah, yeah, they want to get the retail season
started started early, all right. So that that's basically the
list is anything but left out? Can you guys come
up with anything I above and beyond? Go ahead?
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Yeah, I have one. So I hate when people are
like kind of like behind it, behind you or near
you or just like all up in your personal space.
Like if I'm looking at something in an aisle and
somebody comes right behind me and they're just kind of
like breathing down my neck, that's just like annoying. As Yeah,
I hate that, Like what right is doing? Like I
just don't. I don't like that. Like everyone needs to
(28:46):
be like respectable of like your space and like what
you're doing. So that's like probably the most frustrating thing
for me. And it's already packed. Like I get that,
but like, at least try like personal space. It's just
too much.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Fair Lorana, and it's not my list. I don't even
know what the hell I'm talking about.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
I know, No, I.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Don't know.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
I think the whole thing of it's really fun. And
even the parking situation when you said that, it reminded
me one of the years we did it. It was
one of those late nights. I came in my pajamas,
I had my slippers on. Please brush your teeth, people,
and take showers and make sure you smell good, because
once again, we're all really close to each other in
those same baking spaces. And if you are breathing over
(29:30):
someone's shoulder, please please have brushed your teeth. No one
needs you all morning breath in their face.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
But no.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
I parked really far away one time from the Walmart
and we walked in and that parking lot was insane, insane.
Make sure you're using your blinkers and your blinders and
have your lights on and use your mirrors so that
you don't hit anyone because people are not paying attention.
Speaker 7 (29:53):
No, and they're extra aggressive. So it's like you're already
aggressive trying to get there, and then you're in the
parking and then you're inside. It's just like it's just
a high stressful situation. So try to be like mindful,
like kind full. Yeah, that's just how I feel.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
So this is basically a public service message so people
can get their act together. How much a word of it?
Speaker 6 (30:12):
How much do I think people spend on Black Friday
on average?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Well, I don't know if I don't know if there's
an average, is there? Could there? I mean, someone my
what I've always observed on Black Friday is based on
what I see in the news is the new shiny toy,
and there's only a limited amount of a number of them. Okay,
So I've seen people lined up, you know, game Stop
or some of these for a new video game or
something at three in the morning and they're lining up
(30:38):
fifty two deep and they got five in stock. Now,
I've heard people pay pay for people to cut in line,
or pay people to sit there or whatever. So I
don't know how much people spend on average, because I
always thought Black Friday was for those people looking for
that one shiny new toy it's opposed to just a
bunch of deals. But again, I don't know what I'm
talking about.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
I just I looked up an article is like people
spend between seven hundred dollars and nine hundred dollars per
person in the holiday season, is specifically Black Friday, which
is insane.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Well, the stores get a lot of that.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Do you guys have a list of people you're shopping
for this year?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I mean I don't.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
I mean so far, it's just me. I'm just buying
stuff for myself.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Well, okay, so Black Friday is upon us. Last question,
are you you participating in Black Friday which is upon us,
which is later today?
Speaker 6 (31:26):
Yeah, I'm probably I've already done. I've done previous shopping.
I did some on Wednesday this week.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
I personally am not. I did order like three things
on Amazon that would have the little Black Friday little
thing next to it, So I guess.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yes, I did so.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I guess I contributed just my way in regards to
like online shopping. But I will not be stepping foot
into like a store today, Absolutely not.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
Nope.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Well, then of course you've got the Cyber Monday right
right around the corner.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
I think they have better deals.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
Okay, I did forget about that. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
And also, the after Christmas specials are usually really good.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Two.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, well that's very true. I think, yeah, after Christmas.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
Because the stores overload on everything. They order too much,
and then they got to clear out their shelves. So
what do they do seventy five percent off? It's like
with cars, too, right, yep.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yep, all right, I'm surely well exhausted. Coming up, coming up,
you might not want to hear this, but Major League
Baseball is about to do something that really also is
not It kind of make my teeth hitch. Coming up
top of the hour, we're going to be joined by
Larry Sorenson, good friend of mine, pitch ten years in
the major leagues, including the All Star Game, so I'm
(32:37):
gonna certainly get his thoughts on this, but I'm going
to tell you what they have in mind, and I
don't like it. I don't like it, but hear me out.
I'm Bernie Fraddlewick comedy line from the Las Vegas Fox
Sports Radio Diirec dot Com Studios. Send it for Ben Maller,
keep it locked, Ben Malor Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller
Show weekdays at two am Eastern p em Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
We're gonna have to let this run. And homage to
the great Grace Slick letter rip for just a minute,
and of course credit to James in La for his reference.
And that's what you get when you listen to the
Ben Malor Show, a little bit of everything and don't
act like you don't like it. Bernie Frattle in for
(33:28):
Ben Mallard. Tonight, Ben Maller, of course, enjoying a very
nice Thanksgiving weekend. Maybe he's out at Black Friday. Maybe
he's bringing coupons and pushing people around and filling the
room with uppercuts and drinking too much Starbucks and all that.
Maybe Ben will give you a report on Sunday night
(33:49):
when he is back on Bernie Fraddle sitting in for
Ben Maller. Comingy live from the Las Vegas Fox Sports
Radio Tyraq dot com studios. Okay, coming up top of
the hour, going to be joined by Larry Sorenson, ten
year Major league pitcher. He holds a record that I
guarantee you'll never be broken. He retired nine men in
a row in the All Star Game, including several Hall
(34:11):
of Famers and one of the topics. I'm going to
get his thought on this because he pitched in the
big leagues and why am I bringing this up? Okay,
let me get to the daannpoint. You might not want
to hear this, but Major League Baseball will continue experimenting
with wait for it, robot umpires during spring training in
(34:32):
twenty twenty five, and they planned to use this challenge
system at thirteen ballparks, which will host nineteen teams now.
If successful, the challenge system involving robots could make its
way to regular season baseball games by twenty twenty six.
That's what Commissioner Rob Manfred recently said at an owners
(34:54):
meeting a couple of weeks ago. So for the system
to be implemented in Major League Baseball now, team would
need to be reached with the Major League Baseball's Umpires
Association after the collective Bargaining Agreement expires on December first. Now,
the automated umpiring system has been tested in the minor
(35:14):
leagues for five years now. There's work to be done
though in terms of determining a proper strike zone. See
the system. It's going to continue to be evaluated by
Major League Baseball this upcoming spring training, and that will
determine the appropriate next steps as to whether or not
they're going to implement this thing. Now, there's two sides
to the test eight. It's what the clubs think about
(35:35):
it and what the players think about it, and they're
going to have to sort through both of those will
get Larry's a perspective, among other things on that. I
think it's weird. It's not Look, it's not going to
be an actual robot standing there like Casey the robot
in the Twilight Zone. You'll actually have a live umpire
behind the plate. But the robot, the electronic Challenge system
(35:58):
will be calling the ballskes and then they'll signal to
the umpire and he'll, uh, you know, he'll call hell,
he'll make the official call so that the fans you
can see what was called ball strike whatever. I really,
I mean, I'm really not one hundred percent sure why
(36:19):
they're doing this. I know they want everything to be accurate.
They wanted to be perfect. But look, I played baseball
at a high enough level. It's a thinking man's game.
There were some umpires that would use a chess protector
and they didn't necessarily see the low pitch. Some umpires
didn't use a chess protector and they had maybe a
little bit different visibility. Some guys would set up inside
(36:42):
the catcher, some guys would set up outside, some directly
over the catcher. Some guys are fat, some guys it's different.
And so sometimes if you know an umpire's tendencies, I know,
betters know this in terms of ball strikes, walks, et cetera.
Pitcher zumps, hitter zumps, and they bet accordingly, you know,
(37:03):
under over bets, total bets. So I think it takes
away and elements of the game that to me is
very prevalent, and that is over the long haul, one
hundred and sixty two games, the marathon six months. You
can't finesse it. You got to you got to run
the full marathon. It rewards intelligent teams, you know, and
(37:24):
I think the Dodgers were an intelligent team that they
deserved to win the World Series last year. So look,
we'll talk about that. There's a couple subject I want
to talk about, by the way, just a couple of quickies.
There was a triple header. I didn't really get a
chance to get to this. On Thanksgiving. The Bears lost
to the Lions twenty three to twenty. The Cowboys beat
(37:46):
the Giants New York Giants twenty seven to twenty, and
Green Bay hammered Miami thirty to seventeen. There were some
takeaways you need to start to pay attention to. Because
of the six teams, only two are playoff teams. Okay,
I just don't think Miami's going to be able to
do it. And obviously the Giants are playing out the string.
The Cowboys can talk all they want, you know, they
(38:08):
think they're going to the Super Bowl where they're gonna
have to buy a ticket to get in. And so
you get the Lions and you got you know, the Packers.
You got to give it up to Jordan Love. This
was a takeaway phenomenal chemistry with his wide receivers. He
made a throw to Reid in the game. I mean,
you talk about spreading the wealth, Jordan Luff is turning
(38:30):
into one of the best quarterbacks actually kind of diversifying
his passes and his pass portfolio because he talked he
targets multiple receivers and he finds multiple receivers. He was
at it again Thursday night. He distributed the wealth. He
threw balls to Tucker Craft he had almost eighty yards,
Josh Jacobs almost eighty yards, Christian Watson almost seventy yards,
(38:51):
then Tavian Wicks. They were so good and so effective.
And Jaden Reid he found just had twenty four yards receiving,
but he had two touchdowns. And oh, by the way,
it's not just Green Bay's passing game, you know. I
think it was Manuel who said the Raiders had actually
drafted a cup. I believe Mike Mayock drafted Josh Jacobs
(39:12):
with the Raiders. Well, they let him go and they
could sure use him because watching Josh Jacobs fake out
a defender on a play in the open field as
the kind of finesse that makes him a complete full
load to deal with out of the backfield. If he
wants to be, He's a rolling ball of butcher knives.
He can juke, he can dance whether he's rushing or receiving.
(39:32):
He can also be a bruising back whenever he needs
to be. He can get you the hard yard, he
can move the chains on third down, he can punch
it in over the goal line. And that's another big
takeaway that the Packers have themselves a real weapon and
the Lions have to watch out for the Packers. The
Packers could catch the Lions in the playoffs. It could happen,
and not predicting it, but it could happen, Okay, just
(39:57):
saying coming up. Larry's Orange and Major League pitcher joined
us keep it locked you listen to the Ben Mallor
Show Bernie Fraddle sitting in for Ben Maller and Fox
and Sports Radio
Host
Ben Maller
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