November 23, 2022 • 29 mins
On today's episode, Indianapolis Colts Owner Kalen Jackson sits down with Jay and shares her struggles with anxiety as she makes a push to prioritize mental health in the NFL. Jackson, the daughter of Jim Irsay, is the force of will behind the Kicking the Stigma initiative, which raises awareness about mental health disorders and works to remove the shame and stigma often associated with those illnesses.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental health
podcast with Jay Glazer and with teammates coming all sorts
of you know, different ways for me, and you just
(00:23):
never know. As I started talking more about my mental
health issues and depression anxiety, I started finding teammates I
didn't know, we're out there for me. You just never know.
And that's why it's so important to be vulnerable. It's
why it's so important to open up because you never know.
You could have a hidden teammate on your right or
your left, or you may have a teammate that just
needs help that you don't know they need help. Because
(00:44):
so many of us are still hesitant to talk about this.
Somebody who's not hesitant to talk about it. And again
one of my new teammates i'd like to refer to
people as my teammates as Kalon Jackson, who is vice
chair and part owner or owner or the Indianapolis called
the youngest of Jim marcais three daughters. But also she's
doing such an incredible thing with the kicking the stigma mission,
(01:06):
and of every team in the NFL out there, nobody's
doing more for mental health than the cults. And the
reason why is because it's being spearheaded by my team
out over here. Kaitlin Jackson, how are you good? I
love this my teammate thing. I'm gonna deal that. You know.
When I go in and I talked to these teams
about mental health, I tell them all, guys, look, mental
health is so reactive nowadays, it's got to be more proactive.
(01:29):
So you guys, don't just like the players on your team.
They don't just catch passes when they get drops, and
they don't just you know, run forties or sprint when
they feel like they're getting slow. Right, You're doing it constantly,
So why aren't we putting the same in the mental
health And the reason why a lot of it is
just not enough therapist yet. So you're gonna start leaning
into each other, your teammates. You've got all these teammates
(01:50):
on your right and your left in that that locker room.
Lean into them. The more you can lean into them,
the more they could be there for you. So that's
where for me, Kaylin, I've needed teammates for I've always fought,
so a fight team. I have my foxing a Sunday team.
I have God as a teammate, my rescue pits a teammate.
I need teams because depression anxiety makes you feel so
(02:10):
damn alone, so lonely. So that's where the teammate thing
comes from. And that's what I'm saying, You're my teammate.
Well that's why I love it, because as you were
saying it, I was thinking, like who am I? You know?
Who am I? And who you know? Who makes up
my and I kind of I call like my mental toolkits,
So like those teammates are all part of my toolkit
in a way, you know, whether it be exercise or
(02:33):
journaling or even puzzling for me or music and then
my family and my girls and all of that. So
I was starting to, you know, as you were saying,
and I was starting to do it myself, like who
are mine? And thankful to say I have a big team.
So they do you do? Okay, So tell me why
you started? Well, this is so important why you started
(02:53):
this whole initiative with the cults, and then now the
league is really diving in as well. Yeah, so for everyone,
I think because the timing was in but really we
had decided that mental health was gonna be a big
initiative for us right before the pandemic hit. So that's
towards the end of twenty nineteen, we had, you know,
(03:14):
kind of had a conversation. My older sister kind of
challenged me with you know, we do so much in
the community, but we've never picked something that was really
our families. You know, if we were to pick something
that was initiative of ours, what would that be UM,
And of course there were more than just mental health.
It was important to us. But because of our you know,
personal experiences and lived experiences with mental health, not just
(03:37):
within our own immediate family UM, but also you know,
extended family friends, it felt like such a no brainer.
And then when we looked into the statistics, that's really
what sealed the deal because I think, you know, the
Colts since we have come here in the eighties, you know,
the big part of who we are is community and
community involvement and showing up where we're needed. But for
(03:59):
the first time, I felt almost ashamed that I didn't
know that the numbers were that bad. When it's something
that one I live here. I you know, I live
and breathe this community I have since I was born here.
And then on top of it, it's a topic that
we know so well and has touched us so personally,
and I felt awful that we hadn't done anything, you know,
(04:21):
outwardly about this. We of course had done some things
kind of behind the scenes, but I think part of
it too was, you know, the stigma that we talked about,
you know, our story about you know, my dad's substance
use disorder has been very public and I always I
like to say, our story was written about us, and
for the first time, we're telling our own story. Um,
and it's just a different it's just a different viewpoint,
(04:44):
you know, because no one can know your story about
you and and so it's been almost healing for us
to kind of go through this process as well. I
like to say, like at and my great my depression, anxiety,
me surviving it, and me finding through it. That's what
made me who I am. For a long time, I
felt cursed, what made me who I am? What you
(05:06):
growing up like you just said just kind of struck
a nerve with me. You read your story instead of
you know so much I don't know, you lived your story.
What about you growing up with your dad who had
substance abuse issues? What about this do you look at
and say, Okay, this really molded me to who I
am and what was the hardest thing for you to
get through? Yeah? So, I mean I think, like I said,
(05:27):
that's a big one. And obviously it was written about
um and thankfully as in recovery and doing really well.
But I sent suns. As long as I can remember,
I've struggled with anxiety, and of course I'm sure some
of that was attributed to that, but there are a
lot of things that attributed to it. And I think
as a kid, I didn't even know, you know, what
was going on or why I felt this way, And
there was no thing that I remember happening to me
(05:50):
or you know, anything that all of a sudden I
was just anxious one day. I just kind of was
like that. You know, I'm a very empathetic person from
a young age, and I think I feel really deeply
and I easily feel for others, and but from a
really young age, I've I've struggled with anxiety myself, and
as I say, I still do you know, it's all
it goes away, um, and some days really hard still.
(06:11):
You know. I talked a lot about how becoming a
mom was really challenging for me with someone with anxiety
and control issues, that having to let I mean, with kids,
you have no control, so you have to kind of
let go of that. But I was thinking about our talk,
and you know, parts of of my life where I've
struggled more or struggled less, and I it's ironically, I
(06:33):
always thought when I was pregnant, I would be the
most anxious because I'm caring for somebody else and I
but ironically, it was the least anxious I've been my
whole life. And I don't know if it was because
it took away. I had no control, like there was
no option, Like whatever it was gonna happen was gonna happen,
and I could do what I could to take care
of it inside me. But it was an interesting experience
for me. It was probably the least you were being
(06:57):
of service. Is something greater than you? Yeah, And I
do feel that, like in this initiative a lot um
where I feel, you know, I think anyone who struggles
with mental health really does feel the power and sharing
your story with somebody else and enabling it to affect
someone else's life in a positive way really gives your
story and your struggle and your trauma a purpose in
(07:19):
this life. UM and I really feel that and everything
that we do with this initiative. And but if we
go back to you know why we did it and
kind of how it came about. We after reading the
statistics in Indiana, I'm realizing how bad it was. Our
plan was to do a spring fundraiser event to really
kick it off, but as we all know, COVID hit
(07:40):
and that didn't happen. So we decided to use them
Cosmic Cleats campaign that players used to share the cause
it's close to their heart as a way for us
to kind of kick this off. UM and my dad
gave three million dollars one million to one hospital, another
and a recovery UM center to kind of kick off
our giving. And then it was really just an awareness piece.
(08:02):
And my dad got so passionate about talking about it
for our content piece for my Cosmic Leads that he
was like, this needs to be bigger than just us.
This needs to be a national campaign. People need to
be talking about this. And so that's how our p
s as were made and landed on you know, he
wanted it everywhere every anyone was looking, so Fox News, CNN,
(08:25):
you know, big sporting events. It was an inauguration, it
was all over. And we've run I guess there's probably
five p s a s now over the last three years,
and we we had one running this September and we'll
probably do some more during the season. But it's so
hard to keep your foot on the pedal, you know,
and to keep the momentum going and to really not
(08:47):
let this discussion stop. And we've been able to do that,
and we don't plan the top anytime soon, you know what.
I love what you guys are doing. Also, I go
I have a whole chapter on the book about it.
But be proud of your scores. I'm proud of my scores.
I don't have, and that for you guys are doing right.
Your dad's doing it, you're all doing it. It's not like, hey,
we're just gonna go throw a bunch of money like
you're doing this because you've been through certain things. You're
(09:08):
using your scores to help others. Yeah, and I think
that that's part of maybe why this is hidden such
a nerve and a positive way is because it is
coming from a place that such genuine understanding and genuine,
genuine experience because I think, you know, we talked about
that a lot too with COVID. Is one of the
silver linings in a way is that for the first
(09:28):
time in you know, maybe ever, some people were experiencing
mental health struggles and for them, I think anything in life,
people fear the unknown. It's only natural, you know, for
us to fear what we don't understand and we don't know.
And yeah, people in jail get threatened with social isolation, right,
(09:48):
they're horrified of it. So you're right to your point,
it's exactly, but we're all going through something now, yes,
And so I think it was for the first time
people were able to connect with this topic and actually
have a little bit of understand ending maybe whether they
didn't understand it before. And so as much as I
hate that more people have to struggle, I think it's
enabled this conversation to come out of the dark and
(10:09):
into the light. What's been and you don't use the
player's name, but what's been the coolest thing? As far
as a player? Maybe because you guys have been so
open and vocal about it, who's coming and ask for
help or said something that has affected them. Well it's
not a specific player, but it's to see them connect
with fans and and parts of them that maybe they
(10:30):
didn't think was that big of a deal to say like, yeah,
I struggled too, but to see the reaction that they
get from fans or you know, I can use Shakill
Leonard as a big example. He's obviously very vocal about
his struggles, but he continues to be and when he
meets people on the street, you know, he's having people
come up to him or at events saying there was
I think it was a police officer actually was sharing
with him. Another day at an event. I was about
(10:52):
to end it. I couldn't take it anymore. Just life
was too heavy and I it was like one of
those nights you know where it was is it? And
he saw him his p s A and he saw
him talking about it and to him that pulled him out.
And so I think for our players to be able
to see their effect on people in that way, you know,
(11:14):
I think there are players feel that a lot in
terms of you know, being a hero to kids and
to other people. But to really truly have someone come
up to you and tell you that they were going
to end in their life. But you telling your story
and sharing how you feel that way or you felt
that way at some point and you pulled yourself out
made them feel like they could do it. You know.
That's there's no words for that, you know. I think
(11:36):
they're speechless and feel so glad that they could do
that for somebody. I think, you know, in certain ways,
we're in a worth place than we've ever been mental
health wise because of social media. But in another way,
we're in a better place. What I mean by that
is like when you were saying you you were growing
up with anxiety, you know what it was? I suffer
from from panic attacks. I was getting my heart checked
(11:59):
out for twelve years for a heart attack. I have
no idea what it was. Now, because we have people
like you and people like myself, and people like Shack
and people like Garris and your dad and all of
us talking about it, people don't have to wonder anymore,
what is this? What is this anxiety? What am I
going through right here? Like? Okay, this is anxiety, Oh
this is depression. Oh this is a great So I
(12:20):
think in that way, we have to lean into it
even more. Yeah, and I think for us to, like, so,
we have a video series that we started, you know,
we have anyone from Snoop Dogg to our players Zarablow
sharing you know, what this topic means to them. Maybe
some are more you know, in depth than others. But
the reason we keep doing those and introducing new people
it's not necessarily they're talking about something different, but there's
(12:42):
stories different and it'll connect with someone differently. And I
think that anyone like you and I have struggled. I
can think of someone I've seen talking about it and
something clicks when they say something that you literally thought
in your head and you're like, oh my god. It
almost feels like did someone tell them that? I at
that because that's literally, by like word forward, how I felt.
(13:04):
And so I think that's why we continue to do those,
because we know that that's happening, you know, Like we
know people are going and watching these videos and feeling
that and not feeling alone and and realizing that there's
so many different ways that you can connect with someone.
And I think, you know, with you, it's so funny
because I think of growing up, you know, knowing who
you are in terms of in the media and all
(13:25):
of that, and then connecting with you and getting to
talk to you personally and and sharing with each other
about how we have felt, and like you said, it's
so fun to meet all these new people that connect
on this level. Yeah. So it's been for me like
really healing meeting all these people and connecting with people
that really share this passion and life purpose to change
(13:47):
the world in this way in terms of mental health awareness.
It when I went out the Cults campus year, You're
the first person I went and saw that we sit
there in the sidelines. Well, I'm supposed to be watching
football doing my job, which set up is so excited
to talk about mental health with somebody else who gets it.
That's the thing too, And I think part of Ambition
together is to show people were in the majority, were
(14:09):
not the minority. And that's why too many people hide
as they think that, oh, we're just the minority. I
don't think we're the minority. Whether it's because you just
went through COVID, we went through isolation, or social media
makes you think your life stakes or you're seeing so
much hate, or you just were born with it, or
went through childhood trauma or something. I believe we're in
the majority, really do, when I think, I totally agree.
(14:29):
And I also think a lot of people we talked
about this a lot too, like the spectrum of mental health,
but you don't have to be having a mental health
crisis to be experiencing a need for help. In fact,
it's kind of like you work on your body, you don't,
you know, you work on your physical health. You should
continue to work on your mental health even when you're
in a good spot. Um. And I think that that's
something that's not talked about enough. I think a lot
(14:50):
of people to hear mental health and they immediately go
to the extreme disorders of you know, severe depression or
bipolar or whatever, and those are you know, real and
extremely difficult. Like I think people feel guilty, like, you know,
I'm not you know, I'm like, I'm not as bad
as them. So I just want to figure this out myself.
And I don't need to bother anybody with this, Like
(15:11):
it's not like this huge thing. I don't know, Yeah,
it's like someone you know, I'm bothering somebody because you know,
and a lot of times they can't name it. You know,
like a lot of times, until you go to therapy
you realize like what's actually causing Yeah, and that's so
easy to do. I mean I have Yeah. I mean
(15:32):
I did that all the time, you know. I still
do that sometimes where I'm like, oh, God, like I
have everything I need. I have all the you know.
And we talked about a lot too, because like mental
health does not it doesn't matter how much money you have.
We had everything we needed and more, and it was
still hard. And so I can't imagine having to figure out,
you know, a bus route to get to a therapy appointment,
(15:54):
let alone. You know, there's so many barriers that come
into play when some one really needs help. And so
that's a big part of what we're trying to do
to in terms of equital access to resources and really
you know, putting the resources in the places that are
that are needed where they're almost like deserts of areas
where I think that's another thing. We really try to
(16:15):
highlight the good work that is being done, because there
is good work being done, it's just they need more
funding and they need more you know, behavioral health workforce
and the you know, the list goes on and on
so we're really just trying to highlight the areas that
that need help and that are really doing amazing work.
They just need more people to pay attention, talk more
(16:36):
about your mission, help you fill people in about what
you guys have done. And also you have a big
event coming up, talk about that a little bit. Yes,
So our first fundraising event was still during COVID times,
so it was a digital fundraising event, um, and that
raised a little bit close to like two point five million,
and then my dad matched that, so it became a
(16:57):
little bit over four point five million. Then in the
little bit don't say a little bit, that's a little bit.
And then um, this past one that we just had
in September, um, we raised it a little bit over
six hundred thousand, and then my dad also added a
million to that as well to continue our work and that. So,
(17:17):
but overall, in terms of you know, fundraising, awareness pieces,
other donations of our family, we've committed close to eighteen
million dollars over the last three years to this cause
and various different areas we really have tried. I think
that's been part of the most difficult part of this
is an also exciting part because I really enjoy learning
(17:40):
about you know, trying to I'm not I always say
I'm by no means an expert at all. That I
definitely have found many experts themselves who we have been
able to lean on and really use as a resource
to talk to about, you know, like I want to
make an impact today, Like where do I where do
our funds need to go? And it's not that any
(18:00):
dollar that we gave give to any organization who needs it,
and mental health is wasting it. But I really want,
we really want to get down to the bottom level
of this problem. You know, we know that the system
is broken, but we can fix it. So how do
we you know, how where do we start so that
we can impact the change that we want as we
move through the next five and fifteen years. It can
(18:22):
be difficult because you know, we take it. I take
this very seriously. Every dollar it's donated to us, and
we are people are trusting us to, you know, really
make good choices about where this funding goes. And I
feel like we've done a really good job about really
being strategic. And I think that the biggest compliment is
talking to some of our experts and them saying that
(18:43):
it's hard to do that, you know, as an organization,
and and we really are already starting to see some
impact where we've donated, so it's really exciting. So we
will be So I was gonna say one thing that
we did that was the first ever NFL game that
was dead a cage to mental health awareness was last season.
It was in September last season. So this season it's
(19:05):
going to be our Monday night game against the Steelers
um on November. So at our last last year's game,
players wore kids and stigma shirts with different phrases on them,
encouraging you know, you are not alone. Vulnerability is a strength,
It's okay to not be Okay, Um, you're enough, And
so it'll be similar to that where players will be
(19:27):
wearing shirts promoting the cause. And then of course we're
always fundraising, but a lot of this is really more
awareness piece and really stamping our horse shoes name on
this and trying to shine a light because I think
what we've noticed and what a lot of our mental
health experts have said is to have an NFL team
putting their logo on these things or getting articles written
(19:48):
about this is priceless to them because they just can't
get people to listen, and so we're really trying to
use our platform um as much as we can to
help this cause. Really want our listeners to understand that
if you have an entire football team wearing the kicking
the stigma sture and having all these phrases, this is
an entire team, there's nothing to be afraid to talk
(20:09):
up about. Like you got the baddest dude in the
planet wearing this across their chest or on their back,
which means they accept it, right, they're accepting. Hey, they're
all going through something, we're all struggling. So I just
want people to understand the power of that so they
don't feel so afraid to speak up. This is an
entire team saying we got your backs. Yeah, we hope.
(20:31):
We hope to inspire you know, other teams like that
was part of our mission in the beginning as well,
and it still is as that we hope to kind
of act as the best practices for NFL teams or
even just other sports team or even day organizations that
can have an impact like ours with their logo or
their platform and kind of look at what we're doing
in this space and a good time when you have
people call you acting. You know, who have you donated to?
(20:54):
How did you start? You know, where do I begin?
You know, how how do I help my organization or
my community or whatever it might be. And it's an
honor you know that they're calling us and and that
we can help them in that way. And so that's
also a good sign. It shows a shift I think too.
And if you go to the cults website k dot
(21:18):
com slash yes UM and you can find all information there.
You can also when our grant cycle is open again
next summer, that's where you can apply for grants through
our our Kicking Stigma Funds. So all of our funds
raised go into our Kicking the Stigma grant UM. We've
distributed it about four point one million dollars just through
the grant program. To date, UM we've had about thirty
(21:41):
eight recipients and most of them are Indiana local base,
but we do have a few national ones. UM like
Project Healthy Minds is a really interesting one that I
know I've talked to you about that is basically creating
a digital marketplace for mental health services. So that affects
you know, every state. UM. But they're doing amazing work.
But there's so many people, and you can find all
(22:01):
of our recipients and all of that information on our website.
Before I let you go, I got two more questions.
Number one, with your own experience with mental health and
what you've learned. Now, what's one of the more valuable
things that you've learned that you could teach our listeners,
some some sort of wisdom you can impart or something
that you may do it helps you get through your
great well. For me, I have you know, I used
(22:25):
to I said it already, but exercise has genuinely become
medicine for me. I've never actually taken regular anxiety meds,
but I you know, I have, you know, for peanic,
not like regularly. Um I found a lot of three
over here, and I'll keep trying until I find one
(22:46):
that works. I saw well, and like I said, I
have some for like panic attacks and things like that.
Um So I do have that, but I have found
a lot of success in therapy and how to manage
my anxiety that way, So obviously I recommend that. But
I have found over honestly towards more. This is a
newer one for me because I always I liked working out,
(23:07):
but it was always more to like stay in shape,
and um, now it's genuinely become to manage my anxiety
every day. I didn't use to do it every day.
And and that does not mean like an hour of
like you know, grinding it out. It's like it could
be a mile for ten minutes. Once it hits like afternoon,
(23:30):
like tuwish, I started getting like a raised heart rate
and if I don't do it, And I started to
really try to pay attention to myself, like and I
noticed it was on the days I wasn't working out
or even doing something physical. And so now I genuinely
do it religiously because it helps me that much. Now,
(23:50):
the last question after you and I should have told
you this before because I usually do, and I just forgot.
That's the A D D part. Give me your unbreakable moment.
Something that should have broken you, could have broken you,
but you came through the other shot. Yeah, well, i'd say,
like I remember my peak anxiety. I mean I have
a feel because as you get older, when it starts
(24:10):
so young, I feel like I had many peaks and valleys.
But when I was in fifth grade, that was probably
my most difficult year in the school. Again, I couldn't
really name exactly, you know, I was in therapy at
that point, but I would genuinely go to school every
day and my mom would have to leave me crying
(24:31):
at the top of the stairs because in the school
even ended up giving us a private room to try
to collect myself, and she might leave me there to
try to pluck myself before I could go to the
class like every single day, and I honestly I don't
know why. But after I got through that year, I
was started to get a little bit better. And that
(24:51):
could be a variety of things, you know, therapy, helping
and all that stuff. But my mom, I really was
talking about this other day. I really credit my mom.
I never felt alone or like God, just stop and
get over you know, like just this isn't you know,
this is embarrassing, or like, you know, hundreds so many
days of school and I'm still can't get over it
(25:11):
and can't name as to why. And she just never
wavered and making me feel that it was okay and
I was gonna be okay, because that was my biggest
fear and it makes me tear up thinking about it
every time I talked about it, because I always tell her.
I used to ask her over and over and over,
am I gonna be okay? Because it's like it didn't
(25:34):
ever feel that way, and I didn't know why, and
I was like, how am I going to grow up
and be like you and do normal things if I
can't even so I would feel like that, and she
just never wavered and that just trust me, like I
will always be here and you will have the support
you need and we will figure this out. And I
(25:54):
don't know if it was just the constant repetition or
they're probably combined of lots of things. You know, I
got through that year, and I feel like it was
a big turning point for me. I still struggled, and
I you know, it struggled even after college, you know,
like repicked up therapy more intense after college and all that.
But that for me is probably my biggest memory of
feeling like I'm not gonna be okay and her just
(26:18):
being able to have someone like that with such a
strong confidence that I would be okay was why I
feel like I got through it. Well, I tell you what,
I hope you could see it also and say, man,
that's something that could have broken me and didn't, and
you got through the other side of that tunnel, So
you could use that in every step of the rest
of your life. Yeah, I know that what doesn't break
(26:40):
us makes us stronger. Hence why I'm calling some breakable
things that could have broken me, it didn't and I
came through the other side of the tunnel. Nobody could
take that from you. Yeah, well, I think you know,
there's I could probably come up with like ten unbreakable
moments from like my experiences, my dad's you know how
mine related to his and all that. But I think
in the whatever it is, you always have. I mean,
(27:02):
I leaned on my family and my sisters so much
and all of those dark, hard moments, and honestly, laughter
really helped a lot. Like we're a pretty comedic family.
We really like to laugh. We you know, movies and
music are basically you know, quoting movie lines and all
(27:22):
that stuff are a huge part of our family. And
so laughing at yourself and laughing at moments that are
sad sometimes actually got us through a lot of things,
like just being like, I don't don't even believe us
if if we told them the story like it seems steak,
and so things like that, Like I, you know, I'm
so thankful for my family because definitely that they were
(27:44):
my crutch a lot. So it's a chapter in my
book of how to get through the gray in order
for me. So, like I always say, the great Hites laughter.
So when I'm having a panic or anxiety tech on TV,
I push a joke out. I say, if you ever
see me push a pad joke out, I'm just I'm struggle.
But I never really have bad jokes. But but that's
(28:05):
my only defense while I'm on national TV is to
have some sort of after syah, I love that you
said that. I really appreciate you. Tell everybody again one
more time where they could donate, where they could get UM. Well,
you can actually purchase um a kicking the stigma like
cup on our Cults pro shop UM and actually in
(28:25):
our appro jop for anyone who's local Indiana. There's bracelets
and pins and things that all go to kicking the stigma.
But our website cults dot com slash kts is where
everything lives, where you can donate, where you can get
all the information of where we've donated, what we're doing
with the funds, what's coming up next, um and all
of that, and I just want to say because I
don't want this to end without me thinking you for
(28:47):
all the work that you're doing, um, alongside us and
on your own. And I know how many people I've
read your book and that you've had people say the
same thing that I was talking about earlier is that
they were alone, they were having one of those nights
and then they either gifted your book or came across
your book and it's what made them choose to not
And so thank you for all your doing. And it's
(29:10):
it's on my desk, it's right look at that. How
about that it's always near me in case I need
it too. So thank you for all you do well,
thank you for being my teammate, and thank you for
walking this walk together. Thank you. I'm so happy to
be here today
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental health
podcast with Jay Glazer and with teammates coming all sorts
of you know, different ways for me, and you just
(00:23):
never know. As I started talking more about my mental
health issues and depression anxiety, I started finding teammates I
didn't know, we're out there for me. You just never know.
And that's why it's so important to be vulnerable. It's
why it's so important to open up because you never know.
You could have a hidden teammate on your right or
your left, or you may have a teammate that just
needs help that you don't know they need help. Because
(00:44):
so many of us are still hesitant to talk about this.
Somebody who's not hesitant to talk about it. And again
one of my new teammates i'd like to refer to
people as my teammates as Kalon Jackson, who is vice
chair and part owner or owner or the Indianapolis called
the youngest of Jim marcais three daughters. But also she's
doing such an incredible thing with the kicking the stigma mission,
(01:06):
and of every team in the NFL out there, nobody's
doing more for mental health than the cults. And the
reason why is because it's being spearheaded by my team
out over here. Kaitlin Jackson, how are you good? I
love this my teammate thing. I'm gonna deal that. You know.
When I go in and I talked to these teams
about mental health, I tell them all, guys, look, mental
health is so reactive nowadays, it's got to be more proactive.
(01:29):
So you guys, don't just like the players on your team.
They don't just catch passes when they get drops, and
they don't just you know, run forties or sprint when
they feel like they're getting slow. Right, You're doing it constantly,
So why aren't we putting the same in the mental
health And the reason why a lot of it is
just not enough therapist yet. So you're gonna start leaning
into each other, your teammates. You've got all these teammates
(01:50):
on your right and your left in that that locker room.
Lean into them. The more you can lean into them,
the more they could be there for you. So that's
where for me, Kaylin, I've needed teammates for I've always fought,
so a fight team. I have my foxing a Sunday team.
I have God as a teammate, my rescue pits a teammate.
I need teams because depression anxiety makes you feel so
(02:10):
damn alone, so lonely. So that's where the teammate thing
comes from. And that's what I'm saying, You're my teammate.
Well that's why I love it, because as you were
saying it, I was thinking, like who am I? You know?
Who am I? And who you know? Who makes up
my and I kind of I call like my mental toolkits,
So like those teammates are all part of my toolkit
in a way, you know, whether it be exercise or
(02:33):
journaling or even puzzling for me or music and then
my family and my girls and all of that. So
I was starting to, you know, as you were saying,
and I was starting to do it myself, like who
are mine? And thankful to say I have a big team.
So they do you do? Okay, So tell me why
you started? Well, this is so important why you started
(02:53):
this whole initiative with the cults, and then now the
league is really diving in as well. Yeah, so for everyone,
I think because the timing was in but really we
had decided that mental health was gonna be a big
initiative for us right before the pandemic hit. So that's
towards the end of twenty nineteen, we had, you know,
(03:14):
kind of had a conversation. My older sister kind of
challenged me with you know, we do so much in
the community, but we've never picked something that was really
our families. You know, if we were to pick something
that was initiative of ours, what would that be UM,
And of course there were more than just mental health.
It was important to us. But because of our you know,
personal experiences and lived experiences with mental health, not just
(03:37):
within our own immediate family UM, but also you know,
extended family friends, it felt like such a no brainer.
And then when we looked into the statistics, that's really
what sealed the deal because I think, you know, the
Colts since we have come here in the eighties, you know,
the big part of who we are is community and
community involvement and showing up where we're needed. But for
(03:59):
the first time, I felt almost ashamed that I didn't
know that the numbers were that bad. When it's something
that one I live here. I you know, I live
and breathe this community I have since I was born here.
And then on top of it, it's a topic that
we know so well and has touched us so personally,
and I felt awful that we hadn't done anything, you know,
(04:21):
outwardly about this. We of course had done some things
kind of behind the scenes, but I think part of
it too was, you know, the stigma that we talked about,
you know, our story about you know, my dad's substance
use disorder has been very public and I always I
like to say, our story was written about us, and
for the first time, we're telling our own story. Um,
and it's just a different it's just a different viewpoint,
(04:44):
you know, because no one can know your story about
you and and so it's been almost healing for us
to kind of go through this process as well. I
like to say, like at and my great my depression, anxiety,
me surviving it, and me finding through it. That's what
made me who I am. For a long time, I
felt cursed, what made me who I am? What you
(05:06):
growing up like you just said just kind of struck
a nerve with me. You read your story instead of
you know so much I don't know, you lived your story.
What about you growing up with your dad who had
substance abuse issues? What about this do you look at
and say, Okay, this really molded me to who I
am and what was the hardest thing for you to
get through? Yeah? So, I mean I think, like I said,
(05:27):
that's a big one. And obviously it was written about
um and thankfully as in recovery and doing really well.
But I sent suns. As long as I can remember,
I've struggled with anxiety, and of course I'm sure some
of that was attributed to that, but there are a
lot of things that attributed to it. And I think
as a kid, I didn't even know, you know, what
was going on or why I felt this way, And
there was no thing that I remember happening to me
(05:50):
or you know, anything that all of a sudden I
was just anxious one day. I just kind of was
like that. You know, I'm a very empathetic person from
a young age, and I think I feel really deeply
and I easily feel for others, and but from a
really young age, I've I've struggled with anxiety myself, and
as I say, I still do you know, it's all
it goes away, um, and some days really hard still.
(06:11):
You know. I talked a lot about how becoming a
mom was really challenging for me with someone with anxiety
and control issues, that having to let I mean, with kids,
you have no control, so you have to kind of
let go of that. But I was thinking about our talk,
and you know, parts of of my life where I've
struggled more or struggled less, and I it's ironically, I
(06:33):
always thought when I was pregnant, I would be the
most anxious because I'm caring for somebody else and I
but ironically, it was the least anxious I've been my
whole life. And I don't know if it was because
it took away. I had no control, like there was
no option, Like whatever it was gonna happen was gonna happen,
and I could do what I could to take care
of it inside me. But it was an interesting experience
for me. It was probably the least you were being
(06:57):
of service. Is something greater than you? Yeah, And I
do feel that, like in this initiative a lot um
where I feel, you know, I think anyone who struggles
with mental health really does feel the power and sharing
your story with somebody else and enabling it to affect
someone else's life in a positive way really gives your
story and your struggle and your trauma a purpose in
(07:19):
this life. UM and I really feel that and everything
that we do with this initiative. And but if we
go back to you know why we did it and
kind of how it came about. We after reading the
statistics in Indiana, I'm realizing how bad it was. Our
plan was to do a spring fundraiser event to really
kick it off, but as we all know, COVID hit
(07:40):
and that didn't happen. So we decided to use them
Cosmic Cleats campaign that players used to share the cause
it's close to their heart as a way for us
to kind of kick this off. UM and my dad
gave three million dollars one million to one hospital, another
and a recovery UM center to kind of kick off
our giving. And then it was really just an awareness piece.
(08:02):
And my dad got so passionate about talking about it
for our content piece for my Cosmic Leads that he
was like, this needs to be bigger than just us.
This needs to be a national campaign. People need to
be talking about this. And so that's how our p
s as were made and landed on you know, he
wanted it everywhere every anyone was looking, so Fox News, CNN,
(08:25):
you know, big sporting events. It was an inauguration, it
was all over. And we've run I guess there's probably
five p s a s now over the last three years,
and we we had one running this September and we'll
probably do some more during the season. But it's so
hard to keep your foot on the pedal, you know,
and to keep the momentum going and to really not
(08:47):
let this discussion stop. And we've been able to do that,
and we don't plan the top anytime soon, you know what.
I love what you guys are doing. Also, I go
I have a whole chapter on the book about it.
But be proud of your scores. I'm proud of my scores.
I don't have, and that for you guys are doing right.
Your dad's doing it, you're all doing it. It's not like, hey,
we're just gonna go throw a bunch of money like
you're doing this because you've been through certain things. You're
(09:08):
using your scores to help others. Yeah, and I think
that that's part of maybe why this is hidden such
a nerve and a positive way is because it is
coming from a place that such genuine understanding and genuine,
genuine experience because I think, you know, we talked about
that a lot too with COVID. Is one of the
silver linings in a way is that for the first
(09:28):
time in you know, maybe ever, some people were experiencing
mental health struggles and for them, I think anything in life,
people fear the unknown. It's only natural, you know, for
us to fear what we don't understand and we don't know.
And yeah, people in jail get threatened with social isolation, right,
(09:48):
they're horrified of it. So you're right to your point,
it's exactly, but we're all going through something now, yes,
And so I think it was for the first time
people were able to connect with this topic and actually
have a little bit of understand ending maybe whether they
didn't understand it before. And so as much as I
hate that more people have to struggle, I think it's
enabled this conversation to come out of the dark and
(10:09):
into the light. What's been and you don't use the
player's name, but what's been the coolest thing? As far
as a player? Maybe because you guys have been so
open and vocal about it, who's coming and ask for
help or said something that has affected them. Well it's
not a specific player, but it's to see them connect
with fans and and parts of them that maybe they
(10:30):
didn't think was that big of a deal to say like, yeah,
I struggled too, but to see the reaction that they
get from fans or you know, I can use Shakill
Leonard as a big example. He's obviously very vocal about
his struggles, but he continues to be and when he
meets people on the street, you know, he's having people
come up to him or at events saying there was
I think it was a police officer actually was sharing
with him. Another day at an event. I was about
(10:52):
to end it. I couldn't take it anymore. Just life
was too heavy and I it was like one of
those nights you know where it was is it? And
he saw him his p s A and he saw
him talking about it and to him that pulled him out.
And so I think for our players to be able
to see their effect on people in that way, you know,
(11:14):
I think there are players feel that a lot in
terms of you know, being a hero to kids and
to other people. But to really truly have someone come
up to you and tell you that they were going
to end in their life. But you telling your story
and sharing how you feel that way or you felt
that way at some point and you pulled yourself out
made them feel like they could do it. You know.
That's there's no words for that, you know. I think
(11:36):
they're speechless and feel so glad that they could do
that for somebody. I think, you know, in certain ways,
we're in a worth place than we've ever been mental
health wise because of social media. But in another way,
we're in a better place. What I mean by that
is like when you were saying you you were growing
up with anxiety, you know what it was? I suffer
from from panic attacks. I was getting my heart checked
(11:59):
out for twelve years for a heart attack. I have
no idea what it was. Now, because we have people
like you and people like myself, and people like Shack
and people like Garris and your dad and all of
us talking about it, people don't have to wonder anymore,
what is this? What is this anxiety? What am I
going through right here? Like? Okay, this is anxiety, Oh
this is depression. Oh this is a great So I
(12:20):
think in that way, we have to lean into it
even more. Yeah, and I think for us to, like, so,
we have a video series that we started, you know,
we have anyone from Snoop Dogg to our players Zarablow
sharing you know, what this topic means to them. Maybe
some are more you know, in depth than others. But
the reason we keep doing those and introducing new people
it's not necessarily they're talking about something different, but there's
(12:42):
stories different and it'll connect with someone differently. And I
think that anyone like you and I have struggled. I
can think of someone I've seen talking about it and
something clicks when they say something that you literally thought
in your head and you're like, oh my god. It
almost feels like did someone tell them that? I at
that because that's literally, by like word forward, how I felt.
(13:04):
And so I think that's why we continue to do those,
because we know that that's happening, you know, Like we
know people are going and watching these videos and feeling
that and not feeling alone and and realizing that there's
so many different ways that you can connect with someone.
And I think, you know, with you, it's so funny
because I think of growing up, you know, knowing who
you are in terms of in the media and all
(13:25):
of that, and then connecting with you and getting to
talk to you personally and and sharing with each other
about how we have felt, and like you said, it's
so fun to meet all these new people that connect
on this level. Yeah. So it's been for me like
really healing meeting all these people and connecting with people
that really share this passion and life purpose to change
(13:47):
the world in this way in terms of mental health awareness.
It when I went out the Cults campus year, You're
the first person I went and saw that we sit
there in the sidelines. Well, I'm supposed to be watching
football doing my job, which set up is so excited
to talk about mental health with somebody else who gets it.
That's the thing too, And I think part of Ambition
together is to show people were in the majority, were
(14:09):
not the minority. And that's why too many people hide
as they think that, oh, we're just the minority. I
don't think we're the minority. Whether it's because you just
went through COVID, we went through isolation, or social media
makes you think your life stakes or you're seeing so
much hate, or you just were born with it, or
went through childhood trauma or something. I believe we're in
the majority, really do, when I think, I totally agree.
(14:29):
And I also think a lot of people we talked
about this a lot too, like the spectrum of mental health,
but you don't have to be having a mental health
crisis to be experiencing a need for help. In fact,
it's kind of like you work on your body, you don't,
you know, you work on your physical health. You should
continue to work on your mental health even when you're
in a good spot. Um. And I think that that's
something that's not talked about enough. I think a lot
(14:50):
of people to hear mental health and they immediately go
to the extreme disorders of you know, severe depression or
bipolar or whatever, and those are you know, real and
extremely difficult. Like I think people feel guilty, like, you know,
I'm not you know, I'm like, I'm not as bad
as them. So I just want to figure this out myself.
And I don't need to bother anybody with this, Like
(15:11):
it's not like this huge thing. I don't know, Yeah,
it's like someone you know, I'm bothering somebody because you know,
and a lot of times they can't name it. You know,
like a lot of times, until you go to therapy
you realize like what's actually causing Yeah, and that's so
easy to do. I mean I have Yeah. I mean
(15:32):
I did that all the time, you know. I still
do that sometimes where I'm like, oh, God, like I
have everything I need. I have all the you know.
And we talked about a lot too, because like mental
health does not it doesn't matter how much money you have.
We had everything we needed and more, and it was
still hard. And so I can't imagine having to figure out,
you know, a bus route to get to a therapy appointment,
(15:54):
let alone. You know, there's so many barriers that come
into play when some one really needs help. And so
that's a big part of what we're trying to do
to in terms of equital access to resources and really
you know, putting the resources in the places that are
that are needed where they're almost like deserts of areas
where I think that's another thing. We really try to
(16:15):
highlight the good work that is being done, because there
is good work being done, it's just they need more
funding and they need more you know, behavioral health workforce
and the you know, the list goes on and on
so we're really just trying to highlight the areas that
that need help and that are really doing amazing work.
They just need more people to pay attention, talk more
(16:36):
about your mission, help you fill people in about what
you guys have done. And also you have a big
event coming up, talk about that a little bit. Yes,
So our first fundraising event was still during COVID times,
so it was a digital fundraising event, um, and that
raised a little bit close to like two point five million,
and then my dad matched that, so it became a
(16:57):
little bit over four point five million. Then in the
little bit don't say a little bit, that's a little bit.
And then um, this past one that we just had
in September, um, we raised it a little bit over
six hundred thousand, and then my dad also added a
million to that as well to continue our work and that. So,
(17:17):
but overall, in terms of you know, fundraising, awareness pieces,
other donations of our family, we've committed close to eighteen
million dollars over the last three years to this cause
and various different areas we really have tried. I think
that's been part of the most difficult part of this
is an also exciting part because I really enjoy learning
(17:40):
about you know, trying to I'm not I always say
I'm by no means an expert at all. That I
definitely have found many experts themselves who we have been
able to lean on and really use as a resource
to talk to about, you know, like I want to
make an impact today, Like where do I where do
our funds need to go? And it's not that any
(18:00):
dollar that we gave give to any organization who needs it,
and mental health is wasting it. But I really want,
we really want to get down to the bottom level
of this problem. You know, we know that the system
is broken, but we can fix it. So how do
we you know, how where do we start so that
we can impact the change that we want as we
move through the next five and fifteen years. It can
(18:22):
be difficult because you know, we take it. I take
this very seriously. Every dollar it's donated to us, and
we are people are trusting us to, you know, really
make good choices about where this funding goes. And I
feel like we've done a really good job about really
being strategic. And I think that the biggest compliment is
talking to some of our experts and them saying that
(18:43):
it's hard to do that, you know, as an organization,
and and we really are already starting to see some
impact where we've donated, so it's really exciting. So we
will be So I was gonna say one thing that
we did that was the first ever NFL game that
was dead a cage to mental health awareness was last season.
It was in September last season. So this season it's
(19:05):
going to be our Monday night game against the Steelers
um on November. So at our last last year's game,
players wore kids and stigma shirts with different phrases on them,
encouraging you know, you are not alone. Vulnerability is a strength,
It's okay to not be Okay, Um, you're enough, And
so it'll be similar to that where players will be
(19:27):
wearing shirts promoting the cause. And then of course we're
always fundraising, but a lot of this is really more
awareness piece and really stamping our horse shoes name on
this and trying to shine a light because I think
what we've noticed and what a lot of our mental
health experts have said is to have an NFL team
putting their logo on these things or getting articles written
(19:48):
about this is priceless to them because they just can't
get people to listen, and so we're really trying to
use our platform um as much as we can to
help this cause. Really want our listeners to understand that
if you have an entire football team wearing the kicking
the stigma sture and having all these phrases, this is
an entire team, there's nothing to be afraid to talk
(20:09):
up about. Like you got the baddest dude in the
planet wearing this across their chest or on their back,
which means they accept it, right, they're accepting. Hey, they're
all going through something, we're all struggling. So I just
want people to understand the power of that so they
don't feel so afraid to speak up. This is an
entire team saying we got your backs. Yeah, we hope.
(20:31):
We hope to inspire you know, other teams like that
was part of our mission in the beginning as well,
and it still is as that we hope to kind
of act as the best practices for NFL teams or
even just other sports team or even day organizations that
can have an impact like ours with their logo or
their platform and kind of look at what we're doing
in this space and a good time when you have
people call you acting. You know, who have you donated to?
(20:54):
How did you start? You know, where do I begin?
You know, how how do I help my organization or
my community or whatever it might be. And it's an
honor you know that they're calling us and and that
we can help them in that way. And so that's
also a good sign. It shows a shift I think too.
And if you go to the cults website k dot
(21:18):
com slash yes UM and you can find all information there.
You can also when our grant cycle is open again
next summer, that's where you can apply for grants through
our our Kicking Stigma Funds. So all of our funds
raised go into our Kicking the Stigma grant UM. We've
distributed it about four point one million dollars just through
the grant program. To date, UM we've had about thirty
(21:41):
eight recipients and most of them are Indiana local base,
but we do have a few national ones. UM like
Project Healthy Minds is a really interesting one that I
know I've talked to you about that is basically creating
a digital marketplace for mental health services. So that affects
you know, every state. UM. But they're doing amazing work.
But there's so many people, and you can find all
(22:01):
of our recipients and all of that information on our website.
Before I let you go, I got two more questions.
Number one, with your own experience with mental health and
what you've learned. Now, what's one of the more valuable
things that you've learned that you could teach our listeners,
some some sort of wisdom you can impart or something
that you may do it helps you get through your
great well. For me, I have you know, I used
(22:25):
to I said it already, but exercise has genuinely become
medicine for me. I've never actually taken regular anxiety meds,
but I you know, I have, you know, for peanic,
not like regularly. Um I found a lot of three
over here, and I'll keep trying until I find one
(22:46):
that works. I saw well, and like I said, I
have some for like panic attacks and things like that.
Um So I do have that, but I have found
a lot of success in therapy and how to manage
my anxiety that way, So obviously I recommend that. But
I have found over honestly towards more. This is a
newer one for me because I always I liked working out,
(23:07):
but it was always more to like stay in shape,
and um, now it's genuinely become to manage my anxiety
every day. I didn't use to do it every day.
And and that does not mean like an hour of
like you know, grinding it out. It's like it could
be a mile for ten minutes. Once it hits like afternoon,
(23:30):
like tuwish, I started getting like a raised heart rate
and if I don't do it, And I started to
really try to pay attention to myself, like and I
noticed it was on the days I wasn't working out
or even doing something physical. And so now I genuinely
do it religiously because it helps me that much. Now,
(23:50):
the last question after you and I should have told
you this before because I usually do, and I just forgot.
That's the A D D part. Give me your unbreakable moment.
Something that should have broken you, could have broken you,
but you came through the other shot. Yeah, well, i'd say,
like I remember my peak anxiety. I mean I have
a feel because as you get older, when it starts
(24:10):
so young, I feel like I had many peaks and valleys.
But when I was in fifth grade, that was probably
my most difficult year in the school. Again, I couldn't
really name exactly, you know, I was in therapy at
that point, but I would genuinely go to school every
day and my mom would have to leave me crying
(24:31):
at the top of the stairs because in the school
even ended up giving us a private room to try
to collect myself, and she might leave me there to
try to pluck myself before I could go to the
class like every single day, and I honestly I don't
know why. But after I got through that year, I
was started to get a little bit better. And that
(24:51):
could be a variety of things, you know, therapy, helping
and all that stuff. But my mom, I really was
talking about this other day. I really credit my mom.
I never felt alone or like God, just stop and
get over you know, like just this isn't you know,
this is embarrassing, or like, you know, hundreds so many
days of school and I'm still can't get over it
(25:11):
and can't name as to why. And she just never
wavered and making me feel that it was okay and
I was gonna be okay, because that was my biggest
fear and it makes me tear up thinking about it
every time I talked about it, because I always tell her.
I used to ask her over and over and over,
am I gonna be okay? Because it's like it didn't
(25:34):
ever feel that way, and I didn't know why, and
I was like, how am I going to grow up
and be like you and do normal things if I
can't even so I would feel like that, and she
just never wavered and that just trust me, like I
will always be here and you will have the support
you need and we will figure this out. And I
(25:54):
don't know if it was just the constant repetition or
they're probably combined of lots of things. You know, I
got through that year, and I feel like it was
a big turning point for me. I still struggled, and
I you know, it struggled even after college, you know,
like repicked up therapy more intense after college and all that.
But that for me is probably my biggest memory of
feeling like I'm not gonna be okay and her just
(26:18):
being able to have someone like that with such a
strong confidence that I would be okay was why I
feel like I got through it. Well, I tell you what,
I hope you could see it also and say, man,
that's something that could have broken me and didn't, and
you got through the other side of that tunnel, So
you could use that in every step of the rest
of your life. Yeah, I know that what doesn't break
(26:40):
us makes us stronger. Hence why I'm calling some breakable
things that could have broken me, it didn't and I
came through the other side of the tunnel. Nobody could
take that from you. Yeah, well, I think you know,
there's I could probably come up with like ten unbreakable
moments from like my experiences, my dad's you know how
mine related to his and all that. But I think
in the whatever it is, you always have. I mean,
(27:02):
I leaned on my family and my sisters so much
and all of those dark, hard moments, and honestly, laughter
really helped a lot. Like we're a pretty comedic family.
We really like to laugh. We you know, movies and
music are basically you know, quoting movie lines and all
(27:22):
that stuff are a huge part of our family. And
so laughing at yourself and laughing at moments that are
sad sometimes actually got us through a lot of things,
like just being like, I don't don't even believe us
if if we told them the story like it seems steak,
and so things like that, Like I, you know, I'm
so thankful for my family because definitely that they were
(27:44):
my crutch a lot. So it's a chapter in my
book of how to get through the gray in order
for me. So, like I always say, the great Hites laughter.
So when I'm having a panic or anxiety tech on TV,
I push a joke out. I say, if you ever
see me push a pad joke out, I'm just I'm struggle.
But I never really have bad jokes. But but that's
(28:05):
my only defense while I'm on national TV is to
have some sort of after syah, I love that you
said that. I really appreciate you. Tell everybody again one
more time where they could donate, where they could get UM. Well,
you can actually purchase um a kicking the stigma like
cup on our Cults pro shop UM and actually in
(28:25):
our appro jop for anyone who's local Indiana. There's bracelets
and pins and things that all go to kicking the stigma.
But our website cults dot com slash kts is where
everything lives, where you can donate, where you can get
all the information of where we've donated, what we're doing
with the funds, what's coming up next, um and all
of that, and I just want to say because I
don't want this to end without me thinking you for
(28:47):
all the work that you're doing, um, alongside us and
on your own. And I know how many people I've
read your book and that you've had people say the
same thing that I was talking about earlier is that
they were alone, they were having one of those nights
and then they either gifted your book or came across
your book and it's what made them choose to not
And so thank you for all your doing. And it's
(29:10):
it's on my desk, it's right look at that. How
about that it's always near me in case I need
it too. So thank you for all you do well,
thank you for being my teammate, and thank you for
walking this walk together. Thank you. I'm so happy to
be here today
Hosts And Creators
Jason Smith
Mike Harmon
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