Family members of the missing Marokopa man and his children are hoping Police's increased efforts make a difference.
For two weeks Police are offering an $80 thousand reward for information and will consider giving immunity to people assisting him.
The now eight, nine, and ten year olds, along with Tom Phillips, have been missing since 2021 and are believed to be in western Waikato.
Police Minister Mark Mitchell told Mike Hosking that they’ve increased the reward because they want to generate more support and information from the community.
He said that they want to get the kids back, as the situation can't be good at all.
Labour’s Ginny Andersen agreed, saying that while the offer of potential immunity is concerning, the main concern is for the children.
She said that in her opinion its warranted, given there’s three kids out there and they want to ensure they’re alright.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesday morning. It's time for the politics Wednesday and Ginny Anderson,
along with Mark Mitchell are both with us. Good morning
you two, Good morning Jenny. A little overarching, I don't
want you to wademark into police operations, but just just
an oversight here on this Maracopa case eighty thousand dollars reward.
First question is how is it possible that this guy can,
(00:20):
with three kids, vanish from police and us all for
such a sustained period of time.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, I free with you entirely. I think that, and
you're right. I don't want to get in too much
into operations, but I just find it incredible that he's
been able to elude police for this log. There's probably
a feeling that maybe he's been assisted in help and
getting some help. But obviously the police are ramping things up.
They put a reward out there now, you know, primarily
(00:48):
around the children.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
In your experience, do they put rewards out when they're stuck.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, they've increased the reward because they want to try
and generate more support and more information that comes out
of the community to help police locate her and of
course get the kids speak out. And this can't be
good for them at all. So that's why they've done it.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
No, I can't Jinny, what do your view as former
police minister, when you offer somebody eighty thousand dollars and
it may well be a person who's been assisting this
particular criminal, and you offer potential immunity, do you sit
comfortably with that or does that sit comfortably with you?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
It is concerning. Offering potential immunity to prosecution is quite
significant and it's not done often, but when concerns are
really with children, that's a significant amount of time to
be away from other family and it's really concerning regarding
the welfare of those kids. So in my view as
warranted given the fact that these three kids out there,
(01:45):
we don't know where they are and we want to
make sure that they're hite okay.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And then the second question for you Mark, once again
not operationally speaking, but when we hear yesterday this dead
baby in Tikowiti, and the dead baby was known previously
to police for having a non accidental injury and yet
while still with the parents, how does.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That work look Again, again, that is very operational and
and so that's an ongoing investigation. So it would be
I just cannot speak to that. I'll be breaking a
whole lot of rules as the Minister of Police. But
in a broader sense, I think that there's still work
to be done for us as a government in terms
of making sure that we've got the legislation and settings
(02:27):
right to protect our kids because you know, unfortunately we
sort of we're not. We don't in terms of infant
fatalities and injuries. It's still completely unacceptable in terms of
us as a country and what we're doing with.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Correct but Ginny broadened it out then more. I mean,
can do you? Can you explain why a child would
a baby would be injured deliberately and then put back
with the parents who did the injury and not taking
off their pain. How does that work?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
It's just heartbreaking every time I read one mind, I
just can't, you know, I can't see them what it was?
Would they like that?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Is?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That is the role of tomareki to intervene to a
cease risk and make a decision. And it seems like
those teatings still aren't right.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So you're telling me, sorry, Mark, carry.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
On, Well, I just say that in relation to I
rang a Tamaki with Karen Chules, come under enormous criticism
in the last month because she is putting kids back
at the heart of the decisions, not adults, not family, family,
the children. They're making sure the children are put somewhere
where there safe, and I think that that hasn't been
happening for a while and she is very focused on
(03:36):
that outstanding. Well, well, I'm sorry, Jenny, she is making
the changes, and you guys have been attacking and criticizing her,
very personal attacks, and I think I beck her one
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You doing the right Okay, So that's it's slightly political.
Just just come back to this particular case. So you're
telling me, Jenny, so I rang a Tamriki go in,
they know a baby's been and jured buy the two people,
and then they give that baby back to those parents
and that's their call and their call alone.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Well, that they will have access to information that I
don't know. There will be a file on that that child,
and there'll be a whole assessment on what the risk
is and how to mitigate that risk, and then a
decision is made whether to leave the child with the
parents or not. And it's a big decision to up
from their parents. That's a huge decision to make and
so this is at the heart of all of these,
(04:26):
you know, very big debates that we have without knowing
all the particular details of the case, but making that
choice for the state to uplift a child is a
big one. Well versus the fatalities relate the rate of
fatalities and deaths homicides of babies that we are saying
is still just completely unacceptable. And what worries me even
more is what about the ones that lives that have
(04:48):
gone through years and years of physical abuse that then
grow up to be young people. That there's hundreds and
hundreds of those young people in New Zealand that we
don't think about those.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Okay, Mark, just briefly before the BREAKO matters Mary Party investigation.
Do you welcome that and does something smell not quite
right to you?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah? I mean I think the Prime Minister's announced that
the Public Service Commission is going to do a much
broader investigation across all the agencies where because you know,
it is very serious, extremely serious in terms of data
breaches and whether or not it's impacted the outcome of
an elections. So yes, I do support what he's done.
I think it's very important that we do that. It's
important that the country has got confidence in our processes
(05:28):
and systems.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
You bag it, Ginny, it's important they do it. I
think you are a lot of different agencies being involved,
so I think it's good the government has initiated a
single independent review.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Once again an operational question mark. You don't have to
delve into the specifics of it, but broadly speaking, the
bus case in Dunedin where the charges have been laid
and it was announced yesterday the case will go to
court in twenty twenty six. What's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Just we've got a messive backlog in our court. We've
got the whole criminal justice system needs a complete reset
in alignment, and that's that's a big part of the
work that we're doing. I agree, it's you know, justice
delayed is justice denied, and we've got to get the
courts fixed. That's time.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But it's June twenty four, it's a year and a half,
you know, And this is a serious crime. It's not like,
you know, it's some sort of scrap between a couple
of millionaires who are bored. This is like, this is
a crime.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I agree with you, but sadly Unfortunately, this is what's
been happening. And you know, I've got, as the Corrections Minister,
I've got fifty percent of the population of corrections at
the moment are on remand you know, it's a disgrace.
We've got to get that fixed. That's why we just
change legislation that we get to deliver programs to them
while they're on remand because they haven't been getting any
programs up until now. But look, we've got to fix
(06:47):
the system, without a doubt. We've got to get it
fub better aligned with news technology. There's a lot of
things that we can do that can actually help with that.
And there's a lot of going on around that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Is that a mess you left behind, Ginny not as
Police Minister in general Justice Minister, Well, we had a.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Really good program in place called Reframe, and it's been
not funded.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
No no, no, no, no. Six. When you're charged with something serious,
it doesn't go to court.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
That's exact. The point I'm making is that reframe would
produce better quality evidence at the scene of the crime,
so that cases don't fall over when they get to court.
This is still a problem, So the ability to gather
good quality evidence and submit it means a guilty, please
the whole case. If it's If.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's they got no idea what it leans?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, well, so to do Mark, And that's why you didn't, Jenny,
hold on a simple question. So I get charged with
something yesterday and I'm not going to court until twenty
twenty six? What's that got to do with reframe?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
So what Woods would do and speed up the court.
It's really sad that Mark doesn't understand this, and this
is probably why.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It doesn't speed it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
But it would up the ability for cases to proceed quickly.
Sometimes police officers and victims are appearing in court fifteen
or sixteen times before a case is heard. They're delayed
and delayed and delayed, and having given earlier on good
quality speeds up the process. And it's a real shame
that the Minister of Police and Corrections.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I can assure you, Mike that we're doing real work
around making sure that the courts of world. Yeah, things
like or Jenny, things like using a v L, so
instead of police officers on a Saturday all coming off
the street the court, can you a VL to do that?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
What court rooms? Can you listen to the room to
have the capability.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And it puts and it puts police officers back on street.
We're looking real, sensible and pragmatic solutions that will speed
up our criminal justice quick, not this airy theory reframed stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Karen McAnulty Joy fund it, Karen macinaalty and this is
for costly as well. On your side of the equation,
Mark Kieren macinalty claiming his wife's flat. Can we ever
get to the bottom of expenses or a people who
want to bitch about it just going to bitch about it?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, I mean, kid just needs to be absolutely transparent
around you know, the pieces within the rules and accommodation
allow It's I don't know. I haven't seen to be
honest with you, I haven't been following on tracking. But
it's important that in piece we save the public. We've
got to be transparent. It's text bus money.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
So what do you claim? See Ginny, you don't claim anything,
do you? Because you're local? Okay? So what do you?
What do you claim?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Do you six hundred whatever are dollars a week for
a Do you? You must own an apartment in Wellington,
mustn't you?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yes? Yes, So I have an apartment in Wellington the
first three years that I was in Wellington in Parliament,
I stayed at the Bolton Hotel, and then I decided
to buy my own plus here so that I podentually
leave a suit at least stuff down yet and.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You claim against that, you claim against the place you own, Yes,
and you can. You're comfortable with that, and they're good rules,
and that's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah. Well, I mean if I wasn't doing that, I'd
be spending the same.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
The hotel room in see. I mean, Ginny, there's no
way around this, isn't I mean, I think Macinaalty's being
straight up and down its houses and his wife's is
in his wife's name, not his name. He would stay,
you know, I mean, what do we want from MPs?
You either travel or you don't travel, You stay or
you don't say it seems sort of stupid.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well it has had, because you know, you do finish
eleven o'clock plus at night, and if if you're driving
in our forty minutes to get home and you do
back on site at eight am the next morning, and
it's pretty pretty dangerous just to be honest, in terms
of you know, if you're going to drive home over
them attackers at midnight and you beck on DKT eight am,
I just don't think that's a realistic expectation.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Now fair enough to Bolton any good, Marke.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The Bolton's at standing. It's a lovely hotel.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Very good. Next time in Wellington, Bolton that is, Mike Mitchell,
Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Wednesday morning. It's time for the politics Wednesday and Ginny Anderson,
along with Mark Mitchell are both with us. Good morning
you two, Good morning Jenny. A little overarching, I don't
want you to wademark into police operations, but just just
an oversight here on this Maracopa case eighty thousand dollars reward.
First question is how is it possible that this guy can,
(00:20):
with three kids, vanish from police and us all for
such a sustained period of time.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, I free with you entirely. I think that, and
you're right. I don't want to get in too much
into operations, but I just find it incredible that he's
been able to elude police for this log. There's probably
a feeling that maybe he's been assisted in help and
getting some help. But obviously the police are ramping things up.
They put a reward out there now, you know, primarily
(00:48):
around the children.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
In your experience, do they put rewards out when they're stuck.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, they've increased the reward because they want to try
and generate more support and more information that comes out
of the community to help police locate her and of
course get the kids speak out. And this can't be
good for them at all. So that's why they've done it.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
No, I can't Jinny, what do your view as former
police minister, when you offer somebody eighty thousand dollars and
it may well be a person who's been assisting this
particular criminal, and you offer potential immunity, do you sit
comfortably with that or does that sit comfortably with you?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
It is concerning. Offering potential immunity to prosecution is quite
significant and it's not done often, but when concerns are
really with children, that's a significant amount of time to
be away from other family and it's really concerning regarding
the welfare of those kids. So in my view as
warranted given the fact that these three kids out there,
(01:45):
we don't know where they are and we want to
make sure that they're hite okay.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And then the second question for you Mark, once again
not operationally speaking, but when we hear yesterday this dead
baby in Tikowiti, and the dead baby was known previously
to police for having a non accidental injury and yet
while still with the parents, how does.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That work look Again, again, that is very operational and
and so that's an ongoing investigation. So it would be
I just cannot speak to that. I'll be breaking a
whole lot of rules as the Minister of Police. But
in a broader sense, I think that there's still work
to be done for us as a government in terms
of making sure that we've got the legislation and settings
(02:27):
right to protect our kids because you know, unfortunately we
sort of we're not. We don't in terms of infant
fatalities and injuries. It's still completely unacceptable in terms of
us as a country and what we're doing with.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Correct but Ginny broadened it out then more. I mean,
can do you? Can you explain why a child would
a baby would be injured deliberately and then put back
with the parents who did the injury and not taking
off their pain. How does that work?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
It's just heartbreaking every time I read one mind, I
just can't, you know, I can't see them what it was?
Would they like that?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Is?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That is the role of tomareki to intervene to a
cease risk and make a decision. And it seems like
those teatings still aren't right.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So you're telling me, sorry, Mark, carry.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
On, Well, I just say that in relation to I
rang a Tamaki with Karen Chules, come under enormous criticism
in the last month because she is putting kids back
at the heart of the decisions, not adults, not family, family,
the children. They're making sure the children are put somewhere
where there safe, and I think that that hasn't been
happening for a while and she is very focused on
(03:36):
that outstanding. Well, well, I'm sorry, Jenny, she is making
the changes, and you guys have been attacking and criticizing her,
very personal attacks, and I think I beck her one
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You doing the right Okay, So that's it's slightly political.
Just just come back to this particular case. So you're
telling me, Jenny, so I rang a Tamriki go in,
they know a baby's been and jured buy the two people,
and then they give that baby back to those parents
and that's their call and their call alone.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Well, that they will have access to information that I
don't know. There will be a file on that that child,
and there'll be a whole assessment on what the risk
is and how to mitigate that risk, and then a
decision is made whether to leave the child with the
parents or not. And it's a big decision to up
from their parents. That's a huge decision to make and
so this is at the heart of all of these,
(04:26):
you know, very big debates that we have without knowing
all the particular details of the case, but making that
choice for the state to uplift a child is a
big one. Well versus the fatalities relate the rate of
fatalities and deaths homicides of babies that we are saying
is still just completely unacceptable. And what worries me even
more is what about the ones that lives that have
(04:48):
gone through years and years of physical abuse that then
grow up to be young people. That there's hundreds and
hundreds of those young people in New Zealand that we
don't think about those.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Okay, Mark, just briefly before the BREAKO matters Mary Party investigation.
Do you welcome that and does something smell not quite
right to you?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah? I mean I think the Prime Minister's announced that
the Public Service Commission is going to do a much
broader investigation across all the agencies where because you know,
it is very serious, extremely serious in terms of data
breaches and whether or not it's impacted the outcome of
an elections. So yes, I do support what he's done.
I think it's very important that we do that. It's
important that the country has got confidence in our processes
(05:28):
and systems.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
You bag it, Ginny, it's important they do it. I
think you are a lot of different agencies being involved,
so I think it's good the government has initiated a
single independent review.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Once again an operational question mark. You don't have to
delve into the specifics of it, but broadly speaking, the
bus case in Dunedin where the charges have been laid
and it was announced yesterday the case will go to
court in twenty twenty six. What's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Just we've got a messive backlog in our court. We've
got the whole criminal justice system needs a complete reset
in alignment, and that's that's a big part of the
work that we're doing. I agree, it's you know, justice
delayed is justice denied, and we've got to get the
courts fixed. That's time.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But it's June twenty four, it's a year and a half,
you know, And this is a serious crime. It's not like,
you know, it's some sort of scrap between a couple
of millionaires who are bored. This is like, this is
a crime.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I agree with you, but sadly Unfortunately, this is what's
been happening. And you know, I've got, as the Corrections Minister,
I've got fifty percent of the population of corrections at
the moment are on remand you know, it's a disgrace.
We've got to get that fixed. That's why we just
change legislation that we get to deliver programs to them
while they're on remand because they haven't been getting any
programs up until now. But look, we've got to fix
(06:47):
the system, without a doubt. We've got to get it
fub better aligned with news technology. There's a lot of
things that we can do that can actually help with that.
And there's a lot of going on around that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Is that a mess you left behind, Ginny not as
Police Minister in general Justice Minister, Well, we had a.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Really good program in place called Reframe, and it's been
not funded.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
No no, no, no, no. Six. When you're charged with something serious,
it doesn't go to court.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
That's exact. The point I'm making is that reframe would
produce better quality evidence at the scene of the crime,
so that cases don't fall over when they get to court.
This is still a problem, So the ability to gather
good quality evidence and submit it means a guilty, please
the whole case. If it's If.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's they got no idea what it leans?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, well, so to do Mark, And that's why you didn't, Jenny,
hold on a simple question. So I get charged with
something yesterday and I'm not going to court until twenty
twenty six? What's that got to do with reframe?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
So what Woods would do and speed up the court.
It's really sad that Mark doesn't understand this, and this
is probably why.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It doesn't speed it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
But it would up the ability for cases to proceed quickly.
Sometimes police officers and victims are appearing in court fifteen
or sixteen times before a case is heard. They're delayed
and delayed and delayed, and having given earlier on good
quality speeds up the process. And it's a real shame
that the Minister of Police and Corrections.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I can assure you, Mike that we're doing real work
around making sure that the courts of world. Yeah, things
like or Jenny, things like using a v L, so
instead of police officers on a Saturday all coming off
the street the court, can you a VL to do that?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
What court rooms? Can you listen to the room to
have the capability.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And it puts and it puts police officers back on street.
We're looking real, sensible and pragmatic solutions that will speed
up our criminal justice quick, not this airy theory reframed stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Karen McAnulty Joy fund it, Karen macinaalty and this is
for costly as well. On your side of the equation,
Mark Kieren macinalty claiming his wife's flat. Can we ever
get to the bottom of expenses or a people who
want to bitch about it just going to bitch about it?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, I mean, kid just needs to be absolutely transparent
around you know, the pieces within the rules and accommodation
allow It's I don't know. I haven't seen to be
honest with you, I haven't been following on tracking. But
it's important that in piece we save the public. We've
got to be transparent. It's text bus money.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
So what do you claim? See Ginny, you don't claim anything,
do you? Because you're local? Okay? So what do you?
What do you claim?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Do you six hundred whatever are dollars a week for
a Do you? You must own an apartment in Wellington,
mustn't you?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yes? Yes, So I have an apartment in Wellington the
first three years that I was in Wellington in Parliament,
I stayed at the Bolton Hotel, and then I decided
to buy my own plus here so that I podentually
leave a suit at least stuff down yet and.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You claim against that, you claim against the place you own, Yes,
and you can. You're comfortable with that, and they're good rules,
and that's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah. Well, I mean if I wasn't doing that, I'd
be spending the same.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
The hotel room in see. I mean, Ginny, there's no
way around this, isn't I mean, I think Macinaalty's being
straight up and down its houses and his wife's is
in his wife's name, not his name. He would stay,
you know, I mean, what do we want from MPs?
You either travel or you don't travel, You stay or
you don't say it seems sort of stupid.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well it has had, because you know, you do finish
eleven o'clock plus at night, and if if you're driving
in our forty minutes to get home and you do
back on site at eight am the next morning, and
it's pretty pretty dangerous just to be honest, in terms
of you know, if you're going to drive home over
them attackers at midnight and you beck on DKT eight am,
I just don't think that's a realistic expectation.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Now fair enough to Bolton any good, Marke.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The Bolton's at standing. It's a lovely hotel.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Very good. Next time in Wellington, Bolton that is, Mike Mitchell,
Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!