Deputy Labour leader Carmel Sepuloni thinks Darleen Tana should resign.
The Greens have asked Tana to resign from parliament after receiving the report on alleged migrant exploitation at her husband's business.
She was suspended on full pay for the 115 days it took.
Tana's now left the party, but not parliament.
Sepuloni told Andrew Dickens Tana needs to do the right thing and walk away.
She says there's a lot of public pressure, and the public sentiment is that she needs to step away.
National's Mark Mitchell says Kiwis inherently have a strong sense of what's wrong and right, and the public are speaking clearly.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to welcome our politicians to the stage. Mark
(00:02):
Mitchell and Carmel Siper learning for Politics were to say hello.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Guys, morning morning, Camel morning.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh come on, that was that was.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
My normal early morning deep voice.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
That's her resting morning face. Camel. Come, I'll let you
warm up. What do you think about Darlene Tanna and
everything that happened over the last couple of days.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I think the general public would be pretty concerned. I
am of Green Patty. They've been through a lot recently.
They've made the right calls. I think Darlene should resign.
Uh and I can see why they can't allow her
back in the caucus.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Very good.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Mark, We're just this is a meta for the Green
Party and they are dealing with it and we're just
going to live at that.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, that's not what the that's not what the acting
Prime Minister said yesterday. I mean we had we had
Wednesday night and he went bam, this is a disgrace,
this is despicable, this is an outrage towards democracy. The
woman's got to go, and you're going to odds for
the Greens.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I mean, you know, at the end of the day,
of course, the Deputy Prime Minister bought legislation around the
Walker jumping, so you know he's got a stake in
the ground on that. But no, it's quite Some of
the opposition is that it doesn't matter for the Greens
and they are they are sorting it out.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay, but mate, you know she's taking the pay and
that continues. We're cutting government spending, but we're giving money
to Darlene Tarnat.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Look and if you if you are presentative, if you
are serving the people, and you are taking the pay,
then you front up and you do the job.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay. So I'll go back to Carme. I'll comel. I
think she's lost a mandate. Her mandate was granted to
her by the Green Party because she was a list
of MP. Without a mandate, she's got nobody to represent.
I believe under electoral low she should just go. It
should just be a trigger. And I believe that there
needs to be electoral law reform. How do you feel
about a stability of changing the rules so this doesn't
become dependent on Darlene saying I will resign after all, I.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Think she's just got to do the right thing. There
are rules in place. However, obviously that would be a
matter for the Greens to decide whether they wanted to
instigate the leaders that are there. And so you know,
she's just going to do the right thing and walk away.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
But she was not going to do the right thing.
She could have done the right thing one hundred and
fourteen days ago. She's not going to do that. She
believes in herself totally.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, let's her see how things go. I think there's
a lot of public pressure on here at the moment,
and I think we know where the public sentiment is at,
and that certainly is you need to step away.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think Carmel's right. I think that Keywi's inherently have
a very strong radar around a sense of what's right
and wrong in the public. I think speaking very clearly.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
All right, then, okay, this is good to Matt Doocy
here has not read the abuse report? Why not? Mark?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, from what I understand, it was a meeting that
he had in his electric with his constituents as the
local pe not in his minister a role, and that
he was quite simply asked to go that meeting to
listen and hear some of the stories, some of the
background of people that are obviously been really heavily impacted
around their experience in state care.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
For those who's not up with this, he revealed at
that meeting that he hadn't read the report from the
Royal Commission into Abuse in State Care, and he's had
it since November. So considering his job though, you would
have thought he should read it. Don't you think gha
or should have read it.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Should I do think he should have read it. You know,
his portfolios are completely related to much of what has
happened in this inquiry, and he should have read it,
particularly given he's had it for so long. You know,
it's a hard slog when you're a minister. There are
a lot of reports put in front of you, but
you have to take them seriously, particularly a report like this.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
He is I think, I think without a doubt he's
taken it very seriously. I mean, that's why he's deeply passionate.
He's been involved in mental health delivery services for decades.
He's our mental health minister and he does take this
stuff very very seriously. He's been getting regular updates from officials.
They'll be going over the report. The report will be
(04:19):
released I think the first week that we're back in
Parliament the twenty fourth of July. But you know, but
the meeting that he attended, Andrew it was one for
just as local constituents that just wanted to get in
front of them and just share their stories, which.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Is well, come on and mark. Every time a microphone
is in front of you, basically consider it a public
megaphone to the entire country. So it doesn't matter if
he said it just to his locals.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It's been reported, yeah, but it was a private meeting.
It wasn't in front of me or anything like that.
It was just a private constituent meeting. Normally, all of
those meetings that people never talked publicly about those, well.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The localists came out and said that they were disappointed,
so we can easily report them they were in fact disappointed.
And the other thing is, of course Matt dous is
one of the nine ministers who has to make the
recommendations based on the report. It came out in November.
He's got the report. He's a Minister of the Crown.
It's sitting there. I know it's massive, I know it's
a hard read, but you would think.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Of not full confidence has made. It's completely across what
needs to be done, what his role is as part
of those nine minutesters and making sure that we've got
the right response in place.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So, Carmel, we are now determined that two hundred and
twenty nine million dollars was spent over six years on
the failed Auckland light rail project. Of course, the popular
line is no tracks laid for two hundred and twenty
nine million dollars. Can you defend that expenditure?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Oh? Look, these big infrastructure projects take a lot of
planning in The cost to planning them is huge. I
remember someone telling me about the Waterview Tunnel. It took
seventeen years to plan I think four years to actually
build in the amount of money that went in in
the planning stage was significant. And this was a matter of,
you know, planning for a project that unfortunately didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Why didn't it happen? Carmel, Oh, look.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
You know, like there is disagreement, a lot of disagreement
around what infrastructure should be in place. There's no disagreement
about Seck that we have an infrastructure deficit in this
country and that we do need to be focused on
that build and making sure that we've got the right
mechanisms in place so that people can get around, particularly
in places like Auckland. But this was a project that
(06:28):
didn't pan out.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Well, I did it fail because you had a plan
but Michael Wood thought he was a better planner and
decided to stick a light rail underground. Is that how
it failed.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I'm certainly not going to past dis versions on my
former colleague at all, but it certainly is something that
didn't work out. And these projects, even in the planning stage,
do take a lot of money. When you're trying to
suss out a way forward and you have to pay
contractors and people to actually draw up those plans and
put their suggestions forward. There's a lot of money that
(06:58):
goes into that phase and this is one that day.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Okay, Mark, was this two hundred and twenty nine million
dollars wasted? I mean that some people from labor have
claimed that you canceled it and you've wasted the money.
Did you waste that money?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
There's nothing to show for it, there's nothing that's been built,
there's no asset for the people of New Zealand. So yes,
I'd say it's a big waste to money. But look,
we're focus we've you know, Simeon Brown has released our
government policy statement around land transport that includes seventeen roads
of National significance. I know, for effect in my own electerate,
the delivery of the two Hooy to Wartworth has made
(07:31):
a mess of difference in people's lives, especially those living
in Northland and north of the city. So you know,
we know that these roads improve the quality of people's lives.
We know that makes it safer, and we we've got
a big program and we're going to make a significant investment.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Who's got where the Aucklanders agree that, you know, the
roads of National significance are going to make a huge
difference in their lives. And very cognizant of the fact
that there are very little happening to act they ease
the congestion and do the work that needs to be
done in Auckland. I'm not sure this government does have
a plan.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Okay, well, there's a lot of way.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
If we're talking about roads, let's talk about the tolling
of the roads. I had Sybb and Brown on before
and I got into trouble with some National supporters because
I said, you're against the roading and I didn't what
I was saying to Simeon is why is it taking
so long getting these roads and national significance. Why can't
you confirm that they're going to be tolls. Why are
you not fast tracking them? Why are you saying there
will be no road laid for at least three years?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Mark, Well, I think that as a general principle around
tolling of roads, we accept that that is a good
way to go. I support that although my own litter
trip is a road toll, they are told. I just
think that in terms of feness, we should look at
the broader network and people are how are the same
thing paying the toll? I think user pays as we
(08:52):
support that, we need to deliver world class a world
class running network. And yes, getting Auckland sorted came up
was really important, but it's not just Talkland. The people
in Northland deserve to have a world class highway heading
up there. It'll be a game changer for them. Were
committed to doing that and that's obviously our policy.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But when you campaign last year everywhere, well they're going
for new roads, but you're not going to get a
new road done or even started within this electoral cycle.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
No, definitely the aim is to get road started this
electoral cycle. And you know there's a whole lot of
measures that both Sydney and Prow and Chris Bishop, the
infrastructure ministers, are working on to make sure that we
speed up, we get out.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
You'll you'll, you'll be drawing out, you'll be right drawing
up some plans and some geotech and buying some property,
just like the labour lot did with the light rail.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, we're trying to One of the things that this
gump is about is getting to speeding a delivery and
people just need to see that. And I think Armel
is right, is that when you're waiting seventeen years to
deliver projects, that's not acceptable. And I know that even
in my electron is visiting a development up on Golf Harbor.
They used to have four experts that they can saddle with.
Now there's a list of about twenty. We've become experts
(10:00):
getting their own way with red typing compliance and obviously
David Seymo's doing a lot of work around that. But
we need to speak things up.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Somebody's got their email line, turn it off immediately. It's
quite a funny. Carmo. Last question, are you guys seriously
considering an inheritance tax. Do you want to get back
in or not.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We have not come up with any tax policy, Andrews,
So I'm certainly not going to speak to different types
of taxes, and I think it's important that the public
knows no decisions have been made around our tax policy.
We're certainly consulting with people out there the general public,
with experts about what any tax reforms could look like,
(10:43):
but we haven't landed on anything yet.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Okay, Mark, apparently, well the reason I'm talking about it
is that people are leaking about it. What do you
think about inheritance tax and capital gains tax? Apparently it
will be considered seriously at the next Labor conference at
the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I mean, obviously our text policies are geared to
to put in more money back and the bit pockets
of key we especially when we're going through tough economic
times at the moment. But you know, all labor talk
to the text policies. They've obviously going to have some
prettyfficult decisions to I'm sure they'll be transparent with the
country as we sort of love towards any suits.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, he's he's just avoiding actually taking a hard stand.
He's did at the beginning of this interview and he's
doing it again at the end. Mark, good stuff, mate,
Mark Mitchell, Calmel Sipoloni and that is Politics Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
News Talks it'd be from six a m. Weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
It's time to welcome our politicians to the stage. Mark
(00:02):
Mitchell and Carmel Siper learning for Politics were to say hello.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Guys, morning morning, Camel morning.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh come on, that was that was.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
My normal early morning deep voice.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
That's her resting morning face. Camel. Come, I'll let you
warm up. What do you think about Darlene Tanna and
everything that happened over the last couple of days.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I think the general public would be pretty concerned. I
am of Green Patty. They've been through a lot recently.
They've made the right calls. I think Darlene should resign.
Uh and I can see why they can't allow her
back in the caucus.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Very good.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Mark, We're just this is a meta for the Green
Party and they are dealing with it and we're just
going to live at that.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, that's not what the that's not what the acting
Prime Minister said yesterday. I mean we had we had
Wednesday night and he went bam, this is a disgrace,
this is despicable, this is an outrage towards democracy. The
woman's got to go, and you're going to odds for
the Greens.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I mean, you know, at the end of the day,
of course, the Deputy Prime Minister bought legislation around the
Walker jumping, so you know he's got a stake in
the ground on that. But no, it's quite Some of
the opposition is that it doesn't matter for the Greens
and they are they are sorting it out.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay, but mate, you know she's taking the pay and
that continues. We're cutting government spending, but we're giving money
to Darlene Tarnat.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Look and if you if you are presentative, if you
are serving the people, and you are taking the pay,
then you front up and you do the job.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay. So I'll go back to Carme. I'll comel. I
think she's lost a mandate. Her mandate was granted to
her by the Green Party because she was a list
of MP. Without a mandate, she's got nobody to represent.
I believe under electoral low she should just go. It
should just be a trigger. And I believe that there
needs to be electoral law reform. How do you feel
about a stability of changing the rules so this doesn't
become dependent on Darlene saying I will resign after all, I.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Think she's just got to do the right thing. There
are rules in place. However, obviously that would be a
matter for the Greens to decide whether they wanted to
instigate the leaders that are there. And so you know,
she's just going to do the right thing and walk away.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
But she was not going to do the right thing.
She could have done the right thing one hundred and
fourteen days ago. She's not going to do that. She
believes in herself totally.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, let's her see how things go. I think there's
a lot of public pressure on here at the moment,
and I think we know where the public sentiment is at,
and that certainly is you need to step away.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think Carmel's right. I think that Keywi's inherently have
a very strong radar around a sense of what's right
and wrong in the public. I think speaking very clearly.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
All right, then, okay, this is good to Matt Doocy
here has not read the abuse report? Why not? Mark?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, from what I understand, it was a meeting that
he had in his electric with his constituents as the
local pe not in his minister a role, and that
he was quite simply asked to go that meeting to
listen and hear some of the stories, some of the
background of people that are obviously been really heavily impacted
around their experience in state care.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
For those who's not up with this, he revealed at
that meeting that he hadn't read the report from the
Royal Commission into Abuse in State Care, and he's had
it since November. So considering his job though, you would
have thought he should read it. Don't you think gha
or should have read it.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Should I do think he should have read it. You know,
his portfolios are completely related to much of what has
happened in this inquiry, and he should have read it,
particularly given he's had it for so long. You know,
it's a hard slog when you're a minister. There are
a lot of reports put in front of you, but
you have to take them seriously, particularly a report like this.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
He is I think, I think without a doubt he's
taken it very seriously. I mean, that's why he's deeply passionate.
He's been involved in mental health delivery services for decades.
He's our mental health minister and he does take this
stuff very very seriously. He's been getting regular updates from officials.
They'll be going over the report. The report will be
(04:19):
released I think the first week that we're back in
Parliament the twenty fourth of July. But you know, but
the meeting that he attended, Andrew it was one for
just as local constituents that just wanted to get in
front of them and just share their stories, which.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Is well, come on and mark. Every time a microphone
is in front of you, basically consider it a public
megaphone to the entire country. So it doesn't matter if
he said it just to his locals.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It's been reported, yeah, but it was a private meeting.
It wasn't in front of me or anything like that.
It was just a private constituent meeting. Normally, all of
those meetings that people never talked publicly about those, well.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The localists came out and said that they were disappointed,
so we can easily report them they were in fact disappointed.
And the other thing is, of course Matt dous is
one of the nine ministers who has to make the
recommendations based on the report. It came out in November.
He's got the report. He's a Minister of the Crown.
It's sitting there. I know it's massive, I know it's
a hard read, but you would think.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Of not full confidence has made. It's completely across what
needs to be done, what his role is as part
of those nine minutesters and making sure that we've got
the right response in place.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So, Carmel, we are now determined that two hundred and
twenty nine million dollars was spent over six years on
the failed Auckland light rail project. Of course, the popular
line is no tracks laid for two hundred and twenty
nine million dollars. Can you defend that expenditure?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Oh? Look, these big infrastructure projects take a lot of
planning in The cost to planning them is huge. I
remember someone telling me about the Waterview Tunnel. It took
seventeen years to plan I think four years to actually
build in the amount of money that went in in
the planning stage was significant. And this was a matter of,
you know, planning for a project that unfortunately didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Why didn't it happen? Carmel, Oh, look.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
You know, like there is disagreement, a lot of disagreement
around what infrastructure should be in place. There's no disagreement
about Seck that we have an infrastructure deficit in this
country and that we do need to be focused on
that build and making sure that we've got the right
mechanisms in place so that people can get around, particularly
in places like Auckland. But this was a project that
(06:28):
didn't pan out.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Well, I did it fail because you had a plan
but Michael Wood thought he was a better planner and
decided to stick a light rail underground. Is that how
it failed.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I'm certainly not going to past dis versions on my
former colleague at all, but it certainly is something that
didn't work out. And these projects, even in the planning stage,
do take a lot of money. When you're trying to
suss out a way forward and you have to pay
contractors and people to actually draw up those plans and
put their suggestions forward. There's a lot of money that
(06:58):
goes into that phase and this is one that day.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Okay, Mark, was this two hundred and twenty nine million
dollars wasted? I mean that some people from labor have
claimed that you canceled it and you've wasted the money.
Did you waste that money?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
There's nothing to show for it, there's nothing that's been built,
there's no asset for the people of New Zealand. So yes,
I'd say it's a big waste to money. But look,
we're focus we've you know, Simeon Brown has released our
government policy statement around land transport that includes seventeen roads
of National significance. I know, for effect in my own electerate,
the delivery of the two Hooy to Wartworth has made
(07:31):
a mess of difference in people's lives, especially those living
in Northland and north of the city. So you know,
we know that these roads improve the quality of people's lives.
We know that makes it safer, and we we've got
a big program and we're going to make a significant investment.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Who's got where the Aucklanders agree that, you know, the
roads of National significance are going to make a huge
difference in their lives. And very cognizant of the fact
that there are very little happening to act they ease
the congestion and do the work that needs to be
done in Auckland. I'm not sure this government does have
a plan.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Okay, well, there's a lot of way.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
If we're talking about roads, let's talk about the tolling
of the roads. I had Sybb and Brown on before
and I got into trouble with some National supporters because
I said, you're against the roading and I didn't what
I was saying to Simeon is why is it taking
so long getting these roads and national significance. Why can't
you confirm that they're going to be tolls. Why are
you not fast tracking them? Why are you saying there
will be no road laid for at least three years?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Mark, Well, I think that as a general principle around
tolling of roads, we accept that that is a good
way to go. I support that although my own litter
trip is a road toll, they are told. I just
think that in terms of feness, we should look at
the broader network and people are how are the same
thing paying the toll? I think user pays as we
(08:52):
support that, we need to deliver world class a world
class running network. And yes, getting Auckland sorted came up
was really important, but it's not just Talkland. The people
in Northland deserve to have a world class highway heading
up there. It'll be a game changer for them. Were
committed to doing that and that's obviously our policy.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But when you campaign last year everywhere, well they're going
for new roads, but you're not going to get a
new road done or even started within this electoral cycle.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
No, definitely the aim is to get road started this
electoral cycle. And you know there's a whole lot of
measures that both Sydney and Prow and Chris Bishop, the
infrastructure ministers, are working on to make sure that we
speed up, we get out.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
You'll you'll, you'll be drawing out, you'll be right drawing
up some plans and some geotech and buying some property,
just like the labour lot did with the light rail.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, we're trying to One of the things that this
gump is about is getting to speeding a delivery and
people just need to see that. And I think Armel
is right, is that when you're waiting seventeen years to
deliver projects, that's not acceptable. And I know that even
in my electron is visiting a development up on Golf Harbor.
They used to have four experts that they can saddle with.
Now there's a list of about twenty. We've become experts
(10:00):
getting their own way with red typing compliance and obviously
David Seymo's doing a lot of work around that. But
we need to speak things up.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Somebody's got their email line, turn it off immediately. It's
quite a funny. Carmo. Last question, are you guys seriously
considering an inheritance tax. Do you want to get back
in or not.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We have not come up with any tax policy, Andrews,
So I'm certainly not going to speak to different types
of taxes, and I think it's important that the public
knows no decisions have been made around our tax policy.
We're certainly consulting with people out there the general public,
with experts about what any tax reforms could look like,
(10:43):
but we haven't landed on anything yet.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Okay, Mark, apparently, well the reason I'm talking about it
is that people are leaking about it. What do you
think about inheritance tax and capital gains tax? Apparently it
will be considered seriously at the next Labor conference at
the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I mean, obviously our text policies are geared to
to put in more money back and the bit pockets
of key we especially when we're going through tough economic
times at the moment. But you know, all labor talk
to the text policies. They've obviously going to have some
prettyfficult decisions to I'm sure they'll be transparent with the
country as we sort of love towards any suits.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, he's he's just avoiding actually taking a hard stand.
He's did at the beginning of this interview and he's
doing it again at the end. Mark, good stuff, mate,
Mark Mitchell, Calmel Sipoloni and that is Politics Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
News Talks it'd be from six a m. Weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.