Christopher Luxon is defending the time it's taken to step in and remove Health New Zealand's board.
Health Minister Shane Reti yesterday appointed the board’s chair, Professor Lester Levy, as commissioner for a 12-month term. Only one board member was remaining after two others resigned and the rest chose not to serve another term.
Replacing the board with a commissioner comes after the organisation over-spent at the rate of about $130 million a month.
The Government had previously put a Crown Observer in before Christmas to monitor the organisation.
The Prime Minister told Mike Hosking he rejects any suggestion the Government has taken too long to intervene.
He says the Government has been acting quickly and needed sufficient information before making the decision to replace the board with a commissioner.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Prime Minister Tuesday. Krystph Luxe's well, that's very good
morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Good morning Mike Cayk you very well.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Indeed, how was your holiday and where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I had a good five days. I ended up in
Hawaii and that was absolutely fantastic. Actually I got a
bit of reading in and a bit of relaxing and
it's been sort of the first big break up there
for a while, so it was great, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Rob Campbell was on the program earlier, Deborah Powell on
another program earlier than that, and this is feedback to
what you did yesterday with health in New Zealand. A
couple of points he made that I thought irrelevant that
you didn't quite explain yesterday. Where are the Ministry of
Health in this? You can't go from you know, we
might make a bit of a surplus to we're losing
one hundred and thirty million dollars a month without somebody somewhere,
I e. The Ministry going alarm Bell's red flag, let's
(00:42):
go whop warp pull up? Where were they?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, we expect them will. Actually to be honest, we
got advice from the Crown Observer that we had in
place we put in place. In the first few weeks,
we've had to ordered a general report and there was
the annual report from the previous government which highlighted deficits.
So I think everybody's knowing that there hasn't been enough
controls around this organization. You know, that is our responsibility
to make sure that Health Newsum is set up for
(01:06):
the success that it needs to. With respect to the Ministry,
we also expect them to play their part and delivering
that those five big health goals with Crawdysel.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Were they well, I mean, are they awake?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well? The people that are responsible is ultimately the Minister
and us making sure that we've got good governance of
the major delivery organization, which is health in New Zealand.
We spend thirty billion dollars on health in New Zealand.
We've put a record amount sixteen point seven and there's
plenty of money and funding. What we need is a
high performing organization and they says it and it's not
it because the organization's out of shape. This two and
(01:40):
a half thousand more managers and there were six years
ago despite having a midge twenty d HB. There's forcing
layers of management from CEO to patient. The financial performance
you've talked about, and you know, frankly, you know, we
put more money in, more people, and then we've got
worse results on wait times.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Can't I guess get all that? But when were you
alluded to the fact they were losing one hundred and
thirty a month?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, it was actually in October last year, October previous government,
there was a what's called an annual report and that
identified a billion dollar deficit at that point in time.
Within a couple of weeks in December eighteenth or somewhere
around before Christmas, Chaney put in place a crowd of
deerver on the board, and then we've had the Order
of General report in March. We've put more money and
(02:21):
obviously in this budget, but what we want to make
sure is we're getting the organization straight.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Why don't you need the front mind, Chris? Why when
you knew something was awry in October, are we sitting
here in July only acting on it.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, we got into power, we've got gone into office.
Obviously at the end of November, we put.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, January five, Why didn't you do it January five?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, we had we've been we've had a serious escalections
and now we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
A series of esculations at one hundred and thirty million
dollars a month January, February, March, April, May, June, one
thirty times. You do the numbers. Why are you acting now?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Ob acting? Because we're getting it done and we're putting
place a commissioner who's going to have great year.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Why were you doing it in January February?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well we have, we've been have but late just before Christmas,
in our first few weeks.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
To put in a Crown observer, we've had to do
what you already knew it was buggered, then it's bugged it.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, but you've got to have a bit more detail
before you make a big change that we're doing a
putting a commissioner that hasn't happened, that doesn't happen often when
you do that, you want to make sure you're doing
it right.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You've got the if we arrived to run the country
in October and somebody told me that one hundred and
thirty million dollars a month being lost, they'd be sacked
on the spot.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Right we started in early December. You know that we've
worked our way.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I'll give you this year. They've had seven this year
to do something you've not done. You're you're supposed to
be fixing this place up. You're too slow.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh, come on, come on, give me a break. We're
moving at great speed here, and we're putting in place
a commissioner who's going to have powers over twelve months
and get things sorted. I've put more money into this thing.
We're hired more nurses and we've ever had In the
last six months, we've got two nine hundred more nurses
and we had a year ago record numbers there. We've
put record fund there in and we've put clear targets
in place. Now I'm just making sure the organization is
(04:10):
ruthlessly going to deliver against that.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Why a commissioner in the specific set of circumstances as
opposed to say, Simon Mutat Kaying or a pull a
benet at farming.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Because of more urgency, more intensity is what we want.
You know, everyone you talk to in the system will
just say, look, I'm on the front line of the system.
I want a yes or no from my management whether
I can do something or not. And I get a
non decision and mush. And that is because there is
this layers and layers of management. And I'll tell you
why it happens, and it's happened across the board with
all the other tpoo kinger and the disability services as
(04:41):
they took the twenty DHBs and they whacked in massive
layers of management over the top, and that just has
calcified and slowed everything down. We need to move decision
making back to the front line as quickly as we
can reduce that span between the decision makers and the
front line. And you know, it's just been classic botched
restructure and so you know that's why the Commissioner has
to go in with real strong powers to actually be
(05:03):
sort of very very directive to get a different set
of results and outcomes very quickly. We need that organizational
model to be really sorted. You can't have layers of
management like that and bureaucracy. We need the finances to
be delivered because we've put record amounts of money in
and I'm not putting good money into a bad organization.
I'm expecting a great organization to deliver the results we
want to see with that cash.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Meridian yesterday for the second time in a couple of
weeks ask to you why to tone down their power usage?
Why don't we have enough electricity in New Zealand in
twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, one of the challenges we've got is we've got
some challenges around gas in particular, which is causing but
that is a really gas short ball is actually a
reality and is causing energy and security. That's a major
problem for us, in a major concern. We've started to
talk about it in the last few months. But that's
why we've got to repeal the oil and gas ban
as a starting point. And the second thing is we
(05:54):
need we need to bubble amount of electricity we've got
in this country to enjoyables. Investment will come, but there
are moments in time when obviously it's challenging and you
have to choke back to you that has always happened
in New Zealand. Electricity does make it right, doesn't make
it right. But I just say to you that when
I look around the world and I see massive failures
of energy sectors around the world, ours is fairly tidy,
(06:16):
not perfect, but fairly tidy. We need a lot more investment.
That's why we're doing fast track to get stuff actually else,
particularly the energy space and a renewable space. That's why
we're repealing the oil and gas ban because we need gas.
We're going to need it for a period of time.
It's going to be ten to fifteen percent of our
energy mix. And you know, when you're doing an oil
and gas ban and all of a sudden, no one's
(06:37):
getting gas out and we need it for a number
of places, it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It just it sends all the wrong signals for a
government that's trying to do And this isn't your fault.
I'm just saying for a government that's trying to rebuild
this country and has a productivity issue, when you're constantly
asking people to do less, that's not a business model.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No, no, I agree, I agree. But the historical model
is with the big load that t Y puts on
than you doing electricity system, you know, there has always
been choking at key peak times.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Nobody's to make more power. Nobody saw, I know, we'll
build another dam or what you put some windmills year old?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You know, yep and yep, none, And that's what that's
what we're really hard to do. But how do you
get stuff done? Like I mean, you can't take eight
years to consent a wind farm, in two years to
build it and ten years before you've got the benefit
of it. You've got to say that's a one year
challenge and two years to build it. We get it
in three years. So we haven't helped ourselves by being
very strategic about things.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
What we need are half a dozen commissioners in this
country to kick some mass and get this place going.
And enough of the democracy. I mean, look at Tower
on or over the weekend. You see that thirty one
percent turnover. People don't want democracy, do they? When given
the opportunity, they can't be bothered?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, look, I'll always send up for little democracy. I
agree with you like it can be a hell of
a lot better. And my mative folkmus is I think
you know, particularly central government which I'm responsible for, needs
to deliver a hell of a lot better than it
has been. And that's because you need to focus on
the new zeon people and need to focus on outcomes
and results. And I can tell you our culture change
is happening here in Wellncoln. We need to get our
CEO's understanding and our cheers and our boards understanding. You
(08:11):
have a massive responsibility to deliver results from these islanders.
That's why you see us make interventions and KO, that's
why you've seen us make interventions in healthy New Zealand
MZTA are other places as well. So make sure that
we actually are getting organization and leaders that are driving
and saying why they're here. They're not here to manage bureaucracy.
They're here to get things done.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Hey, do you know what I liked about David Seymore's
acting Prime minister last week?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
No? Tell me.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
He told it like it was. Someone asked him a
question about the Reserve Bank and he told it like
it was. He said, we need relief. As Prime minister
this morning, do we need relief from the Reserve Bank
or not?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, we do. But we've got a job to do,
which is outside, which is get.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You've done your jobs saving money like the slow tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We're pretty damn close. I mean, we've got to get
inflation below three percent and then I would expect interest
rates to be dropped, and then I would expect the
economy to grow and I expect employment to grow.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Expected interest rates to be dropped this year, Uh, well,
we're on track.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
We had a inflation came down to three point three
and just sour food crest as the falling lily quickly,
interest rates to soften at the margins. But we finally
doing everything I can to get inflation below three and
then I'm expecting interest rates to drop, and then I'm
expecting that to make people want to dist and grow
our economy. Right. That keeps people on the work.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And Jared curses when they go. Corns of this, right,
Jared curses when they go they're going to go eight times?
Eight times indicates to me that Adrian cocked it up?
Did he cock it up?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, we've we've had long conversations about I think they
kept the printing money for way too long. On the
on the other part of the cycle, I'm expecting a
rapid response once we've done our job, which is to
get in flashed on different drop.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
All Right, as we go into the boot camp, which
has been launched as of this weekend, when will you
be able to come on this program? And to all
the naysayers and the whiners and the handwringers, say it worked.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Well. I mean we've got a there's three month residential program,
there's a nine month home component, to it. It's kicked off.
As you know, we've been very transparent about it. We
had the media and there on for the weekend having
a look at it all. You know, we should be
able to get feedback back in that first three months,
I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Good to talk to you appreciate it very much at
Christoph luxon Prime Minister. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,
listen live to News Talks at B from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
It's Prime Minister Tuesday. Krystph Luxe's well, that's very good
morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Good morning Mike Cayk you very well.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Indeed, how was your holiday and where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I had a good five days. I ended up in
Hawaii and that was absolutely fantastic. Actually I got a
bit of reading in and a bit of relaxing and
it's been sort of the first big break up there
for a while, so it was great, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Rob Campbell was on the program earlier, Deborah Powell on
another program earlier than that, and this is feedback to
what you did yesterday with health in New Zealand. A
couple of points he made that I thought irrelevant that
you didn't quite explain yesterday. Where are the Ministry of
Health in this? You can't go from you know, we
might make a bit of a surplus to we're losing
one hundred and thirty million dollars a month without somebody somewhere,
I e. The Ministry going alarm Bell's red flag, let's
(00:42):
go whop warp pull up? Where were they?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, we expect them will. Actually to be honest, we
got advice from the Crown Observer that we had in
place we put in place. In the first few weeks,
we've had to ordered a general report and there was
the annual report from the previous government which highlighted deficits.
So I think everybody's knowing that there hasn't been enough
controls around this organization. You know, that is our responsibility
to make sure that Health Newsum is set up for
(01:06):
the success that it needs to. With respect to the Ministry,
we also expect them to play their part and delivering
that those five big health goals with Crawdysel.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Were they well, I mean, are they awake?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well? The people that are responsible is ultimately the Minister
and us making sure that we've got good governance of
the major delivery organization, which is health in New Zealand.
We spend thirty billion dollars on health in New Zealand.
We've put a record amount sixteen point seven and there's
plenty of money and funding. What we need is a
high performing organization and they says it and it's not
it because the organization's out of shape. This two and
(01:40):
a half thousand more managers and there were six years
ago despite having a midge twenty d HB. There's forcing
layers of management from CEO to patient. The financial performance
you've talked about, and you know, frankly, you know, we
put more money in, more people, and then we've got
worse results on wait times.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Can't I guess get all that? But when were you
alluded to the fact they were losing one hundred and
thirty a month?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, it was actually in October last year, October previous government,
there was a what's called an annual report and that
identified a billion dollar deficit at that point in time.
Within a couple of weeks in December eighteenth or somewhere
around before Christmas, Chaney put in place a crowd of
deerver on the board, and then we've had the Order
of General report in March. We've put more money and
(02:21):
obviously in this budget, but what we want to make
sure is we're getting the organization straight.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Why don't you need the front mind, Chris? Why when
you knew something was awry in October, are we sitting
here in July only acting on it.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, we got into power, we've got gone into office.
Obviously at the end of November, we put.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, January five, Why didn't you do it January five?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, we had we've been we've had a serious escalections
and now we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
A series of esculations at one hundred and thirty million
dollars a month January, February, March, April, May, June, one
thirty times. You do the numbers. Why are you acting now?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Ob acting? Because we're getting it done and we're putting
place a commissioner who's going to have great year.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Why were you doing it in January February?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well we have, we've been have but late just before Christmas,
in our first few weeks.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
To put in a Crown observer, we've had to do
what you already knew it was buggered, then it's bugged it.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, but you've got to have a bit more detail
before you make a big change that we're doing a
putting a commissioner that hasn't happened, that doesn't happen often when
you do that, you want to make sure you're doing
it right.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You've got the if we arrived to run the country
in October and somebody told me that one hundred and
thirty million dollars a month being lost, they'd be sacked
on the spot.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Right we started in early December. You know that we've
worked our way.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I'll give you this year. They've had seven this year
to do something you've not done. You're you're supposed to
be fixing this place up. You're too slow.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh, come on, come on, give me a break. We're
moving at great speed here, and we're putting in place
a commissioner who's going to have powers over twelve months
and get things sorted. I've put more money into this thing.
We're hired more nurses and we've ever had In the
last six months, we've got two nine hundred more nurses
and we had a year ago record numbers there. We've
put record fund there in and we've put clear targets
in place. Now I'm just making sure the organization is
(04:10):
ruthlessly going to deliver against that.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Why a commissioner in the specific set of circumstances as
opposed to say, Simon Mutat Kaying or a pull a
benet at farming.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Because of more urgency, more intensity is what we want.
You know, everyone you talk to in the system will
just say, look, I'm on the front line of the system.
I want a yes or no from my management whether
I can do something or not. And I get a
non decision and mush. And that is because there is
this layers and layers of management. And I'll tell you
why it happens, and it's happened across the board with
all the other tpoo kinger and the disability services as
(04:41):
they took the twenty DHBs and they whacked in massive
layers of management over the top, and that just has
calcified and slowed everything down. We need to move decision
making back to the front line as quickly as we
can reduce that span between the decision makers and the
front line. And you know, it's just been classic botched
restructure and so you know that's why the Commissioner has
to go in with real strong powers to actually be
(05:03):
sort of very very directive to get a different set
of results and outcomes very quickly. We need that organizational
model to be really sorted. You can't have layers of
management like that and bureaucracy. We need the finances to
be delivered because we've put record amounts of money in
and I'm not putting good money into a bad organization.
I'm expecting a great organization to deliver the results we
want to see with that cash.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Meridian yesterday for the second time in a couple of
weeks ask to you why to tone down their power usage?
Why don't we have enough electricity in New Zealand in
twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, one of the challenges we've got is we've got
some challenges around gas in particular, which is causing but
that is a really gas short ball is actually a
reality and is causing energy and security. That's a major
problem for us, in a major concern. We've started to
talk about it in the last few months. But that's
why we've got to repeal the oil and gas ban
as a starting point. And the second thing is we
(05:54):
need we need to bubble amount of electricity we've got
in this country to enjoyables. Investment will come, but there
are moments in time when obviously it's challenging and you
have to choke back to you that has always happened
in New Zealand. Electricity does make it right, doesn't make
it right. But I just say to you that when
I look around the world and I see massive failures
of energy sectors around the world, ours is fairly tidy,
(06:16):
not perfect, but fairly tidy. We need a lot more investment.
That's why we're doing fast track to get stuff actually else,
particularly the energy space and a renewable space. That's why
we're repealing the oil and gas ban because we need gas.
We're going to need it for a period of time.
It's going to be ten to fifteen percent of our
energy mix. And you know, when you're doing an oil
and gas ban and all of a sudden, no one's
(06:37):
getting gas out and we need it for a number
of places, it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It just it sends all the wrong signals for a
government that's trying to do And this isn't your fault.
I'm just saying for a government that's trying to rebuild
this country and has a productivity issue, when you're constantly
asking people to do less, that's not a business model.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No, no, I agree, I agree. But the historical model
is with the big load that t Y puts on
than you doing electricity system, you know, there has always
been choking at key peak times.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Nobody's to make more power. Nobody saw, I know, we'll
build another dam or what you put some windmills year old?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You know, yep and yep, none, And that's what that's
what we're really hard to do. But how do you
get stuff done? Like I mean, you can't take eight
years to consent a wind farm, in two years to
build it and ten years before you've got the benefit
of it. You've got to say that's a one year
challenge and two years to build it. We get it
in three years. So we haven't helped ourselves by being
very strategic about things.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
What we need are half a dozen commissioners in this
country to kick some mass and get this place going.
And enough of the democracy. I mean, look at Tower
on or over the weekend. You see that thirty one
percent turnover. People don't want democracy, do they? When given
the opportunity, they can't be bothered?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, look, I'll always send up for little democracy. I
agree with you like it can be a hell of
a lot better. And my mative folkmus is I think
you know, particularly central government which I'm responsible for, needs
to deliver a hell of a lot better than it
has been. And that's because you need to focus on
the new zeon people and need to focus on outcomes
and results. And I can tell you our culture change
is happening here in Wellncoln. We need to get our
CEO's understanding and our cheers and our boards understanding. You
(08:11):
have a massive responsibility to deliver results from these islanders.
That's why you see us make interventions and KO, that's
why you've seen us make interventions in healthy New Zealand
MZTA are other places as well. So make sure that
we actually are getting organization and leaders that are driving
and saying why they're here. They're not here to manage bureaucracy.
They're here to get things done.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Hey, do you know what I liked about David Seymore's
acting Prime minister last week?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
No? Tell me.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
He told it like it was. Someone asked him a
question about the Reserve Bank and he told it like
it was. He said, we need relief. As Prime minister
this morning, do we need relief from the Reserve Bank
or not?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, we do. But we've got a job to do,
which is outside, which is get.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You've done your jobs saving money like the slow tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We're pretty damn close. I mean, we've got to get
inflation below three percent and then I would expect interest
rates to be dropped, and then I would expect the
economy to grow and I expect employment to grow.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Expected interest rates to be dropped this year, Uh, well,
we're on track.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
We had a inflation came down to three point three
and just sour food crest as the falling lily quickly,
interest rates to soften at the margins. But we finally
doing everything I can to get inflation below three and
then I'm expecting interest rates to drop, and then I'm
expecting that to make people want to dist and grow
our economy. Right. That keeps people on the work.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And Jared curses when they go. Corns of this, right,
Jared curses when they go they're going to go eight times?
Eight times indicates to me that Adrian cocked it up?
Did he cock it up?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, we've we've had long conversations about I think they
kept the printing money for way too long. On the
on the other part of the cycle, I'm expecting a
rapid response once we've done our job, which is to
get in flashed on different drop.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
All Right, as we go into the boot camp, which
has been launched as of this weekend, when will you
be able to come on this program? And to all
the naysayers and the whiners and the handwringers, say it worked.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Well. I mean we've got a there's three month residential program,
there's a nine month home component, to it. It's kicked off.
As you know, we've been very transparent about it. We
had the media and there on for the weekend having
a look at it all. You know, we should be
able to get feedback back in that first three months,
I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Good to talk to you appreciate it very much at
Christoph luxon Prime Minister. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,
listen live to News Talks at B from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!