Rob Coneybeer: Shasta co-founder says New Zealand's tax laws are out of step and discouraging expat Kiwis and migrants from moving here

An NZIER report finds New Zealand's inadvertently discouraging talented people from moving here. 

Our current tax laws make expat Kiwis and migrants pay for the investments they made before coming here. 

The rules impose tax on the paper value of those investments, even if they are still in start-up phase and not making any income.  

Founder of US-based capital firm Shasta Rob Coneybeer told Mike Hosking the rules are out of step compared to other OECD countries. 

“Among the returning Kiwi expat community, the talented people that can help build technology startups, this is something that people are very aware of and has had an impact over time.”

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You study this morning claims we've got an outdated tax
system that could be scaring off xpaxwanti to come home.
It's too difficult for highly skilled workers to enter New Zealand.
Reports called the place where talent doesn't want to live.
Managing director of Viewers based venture capital firm Shaster, Rob
Connyebear's with us, Rob morning, Good morning mate, car Are

(00:20):
you very well? So the Insidie has done it, supported
by the Auckland Chamber of Commerce, the American Chamber of Commerce,
the inzed US Council, the edmun Hillary Fellowship. So this
is something that's widely known and accepted in the business community.
Is that fair Well, I would.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Say among the returning Kiwi xpac community, the talented people
that can help build technology startups. This is something that
people are very aware of and has had an impact
over time.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
What you read, is it inadvertent or is it deliberate
by way of tax policy?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, I think this is something that is inadvertent because
one of the authors of this study, Peter Wilson, was
in Treasury when it was originally implemented, and it was
implemented for a completely different purpose than today, and that's
what's outlined and talked about in the report. So I
think it's something that is very fixable with awareness.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Right now, are we an outlile?

Speaker 2 (01:12):
It turns out that New Zealand is an outlier with
this specific tax. Are you familiar with the tax?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah? Actually, do it? Do explain it. It's investment and stuff.
It's in pipe, it's stuff that might not be making
any money. It's stuff that you envistment in obaseas they
text to you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I mean the basic issue is if you have if
you're a tax fair in New Zealand and you have
assets overseas, your tax on an annual basis, and it
doesn't matter whether those are liquid or illiquid assets. So
if you're trying to bring back entrepreneurs returning Kiwi's first
time migrants, often they have had a successful startup and

(01:48):
they have paper games, they have some sort of valuation
in that company and they can't you know, if it's
a paper game, you can't eat it, you can't use it,
But it doesn't matter. You still owe tax every year
ye're on it in New Zealand, and that can be
quite significant for the most i'd say successful entrepreneurs and
the most important part about this is these paper gains

(02:10):
maybe in companies that are ultimately worthless, but you would
never get that tax that's paid back.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
No, exactly. So here's the good news. Potentially, this is
a government that would argue they want people, they need
the money, we are open for business. Is this the
government who can fix it?

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, what I would say is it's a government where
you have people in the different organizations i'd say, different ministries,
different portfolios, talking to each other is important. That's a
big part of the reason the study was put together
is because this is at the intersection of immigration policy
and tax policy. So I think a government where you

(02:47):
have people that are talking to each other is very
capable of fixing this, and I do think the current
government is well placed to do that.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Good stuff. We'll appreciate it very much. Rob Connybey, who's
managing director of the US by a spentire capital firm Shasta.
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