Christopher Luxon: Prime Minister on the review into banks, maths achievement levels, energy costs

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said he is prepared to see schools deferring arts and music curriculum to raise achievement in maths and reading.

Speaking to Newstalk ZB’s Mike Hosking Breakfast, Luxon said unions could complain about the Government all they wanted, but the Government was worried about parents and children.

”We are focused on outcomes: achievement in maths and reading and getting kids to school.

“That may well mean we’re going to defer our arts and music curriculum for now. But we’re going to do everything to get those jobs done.

“How on earth do you get a four-lane highway from Auckland to Whangarei with future generations that can’t do maths.

“How do you become the world leading in agriscience if we don’t have our kids knowing how to do maths and read properly.”

Yesterday, the Government announced an “overhaul” of the Education Review Office’s reporting on schools as part of an effort to lift school standards in maths.

Schools that need extra help will face intervention from the Ministry of Education “earlier and more often” than currently according to Education Minister Erica Stanford.

Stanford announced the change today as part of a blitz of policy announcements, begun at the weekend, aimed at lifting maths achievement.

“The Ministry of Education will intervene earlier and more often in schools which need extra support. The ministry will sharpen its approach to intervening in schools when student achievement is at risk, redirecting and targeting resources to schools with inadequate student achievement,” Stanford said.

“There will be an overhaul of the Education Review Office’s reporting, so it is focused on progress, achievement and assessment. There will also be clearer reporting to parents on what schools are getting right and what they aren’t,” she said.

Over the weekend, Stanford announced a suite of curriculum and workforce changes to lift maths performance. These include introducing a new Years 0-8 maths curriculum a year early, from Term 1 2025, with resources available to support teachers. She said the Teaching Council had agreed to lift maths entry requirements for new teachers and that $20 million had been set aside for professional development in structured maths for teachers.

Stanford said data on performance had previously been hidden from parents. She promised clearer reporting for parents.

Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said he agreed with many of the changes, some of which were in train under Labour, including the curriculum change.

He said data on school performance was “still hidden” because the Government has not “published the data they are referring to”.

“Overall in this area, including in the literacy space, there are only a few things they [the Government] are doing things slightly differently... broadly, the direction of travel is the same,” Hipkins said.

“Overall, the issues around numeracy are quite complex and longstanding. We’re not talking 10 years, we’re talking 20 or 30 years in the making,” he said.

New reporting from the Curriculum Insights and Progress Study published on Monday showed that in maths, just 22% of students at Year 8 were meeting curriculum expectations.

This figure was 28% at Year 6, and 20% at Year 3. Curriculum Insights is an update on the National Monitoring Study of Student Achievement (NMSSA). It assessed a nationally representative sample of students at Years 3, 6 and 8 from English-medium state and state-integrated schools in reading and maths.

While these figures are concerning the organisation that collates the study said that the Curriculum Insights and Progress Study as well as NMSSA “indicates that at Year 8, there has been no statistically significant change in mathematics achievement scores since at least 2013. On average, students scored about the same in 2013, 2018, 2022, and 2023″.

One of the study leads

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tuesday morning, Prime Minister Crystal Blackson's with us. Very good
morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Good morning Mike.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Now let me up. Are you aware of the Winston
pulp and paper mills thing in Awakuni.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, I'm a where mills under huge pressure with rising
energy costs across the country.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Actually, right, how can we run a country and an
economy far less a couple of mills if we can't
afford the power bill?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, well, that's exactly the reason why we're reversing the
oil and gas band because the problem that we've got
is that band was announced in the second and third
order implications we're considered and we're feeling that right now
because we don't have enough gas in the country and
as a result, we need it for a number of
a boilers, we need it for the mills, we need
it for a number of places, and we can't get
enough of it. And so that's why we've got a

(00:43):
gas a play group working together. But frankly, this is
a consequence of a decision taken by the our journe
government without thinking through the consequences. We need gas for
a number of decades as a transitionary source of energy
before you get to Nirvana with full renewable but as
a result, without it in the system and with a
shortage of it in the system, electricity and energy prices

(01:03):
are going up, and for people like pulp and paper
walls in particular and others, that cause a huge pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
When Shane Jones says last week we were paying the
most for electricity in the developed world, is he right?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Look? I think. I mean, I haven't checked every single country,
so I wouldn't want to say that, but he is
right in a sense of we've had massive escalation and
energy prices and that is impacting some of our industrial base.
Now if you think about Fronterra and others that use boilers,
if you think about the malls as you have identified,
you think about schools and hospitals, and we still have
huge reliance upon gas. We need it, frankly, because if

(01:41):
we're going to be one hundred percent reliable on renewables,
we make levels are low. When it doesn't you know,
it's not funny and one doesn't blow, we're going to
need gas to make sure that we can keep the
lights on.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Right. Have you followed at all Northport's desire to expand
their business and the rejection from the council. His story.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I read that report yesterday and I just say,
you know, that is a classic case where you need
fast track one stuff. And I know people want to
pose us on that, but I'm sorry it is happening
because that is exactly the situation when you have a
regional project of significance like that that drives economic activity,
high paying jobs, or a national project. That's why we
want people to be able to use that mechanism to

(02:19):
get those projects delivered and done. So you know, I
won't go into specifics in the merits whether you know
they've got a case of fast track or not, but
you'd look at it and go, when we've got projects
generating economic activity and jobs, the whole point is that
shouldn't get blocked up. It should be getting done so
they can get that benefit into the country quicker.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yes, exactly. So the councils accepted that the expansion plan
would result in more than a billion dollars worth of
wider economic activity annually, supporting up for sixteen thousand jobs,
and yet they still turned it down.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yep. And I thought it was on cold eversation, environmental benefits.
I can't that is insane because essentially we need economic
activity in this country. We cannot turn off growth and
we cannot turn off economic development. And that's why we
want to do this fast track one stop because it
has got nuts. Obviously, the resource CONSENTI process is doubled,

(03:16):
the cost has gone through the roof. It takes an
ordinant amount of time to do things in this country
relative to other countries. And modern reliable infrastructure is one
of the five ways in which we actually left our
economic productivity and make me Zeel a more wealthy and
prosperous place. And so you know the reason we're building
a flay highway, form a quantupunga day and then to
be able to create economic opportunity. Those things unlock. Infrastructure

(03:39):
unlocks all of that exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Speaking of Northland, do Transpower oh that region a significant
amount of money.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, I'll let Simmy and Brown work his way through that.
But I mean, there wasn't their finest moment.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
What is the government's role in that? If Transpower turned
out to be a bunch of bastards.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
I'm going to leave that to Simian. I know he's
all over it and incredibly frustrated by it. He went
up and actually saw the situation himself in the first
day or two, and he'll work it through with them,
and nor font.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Have they handled themselves well so far? Transpower and MIXIM well.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
You'd like them to. I would personally, I think you
know when you screw up and when you when you
make a mistake, I should come out and say so,
and you should communicate to such quickly and early. There
probably wasn't as lucid communication at the very beginning, was
my observation of that.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Effect all are you selling Keywi Bank?

Speaker 2 (04:34):
No, no, no, We're doing a review into banks in general,
and we want to make sure that it's competitive and
understand what else we can do to make it more competitive.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I think we have one of the things to make
it more competitive be to sell Keywi Bank.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
That's not that's not the topic of discussion. We haven't
had that discussion. What we've talked about is actually opening
up a banking review both through the Finance Expensi Committee
and the Primary Production. We are concerned about rural banking practices.
We're concerned about the level of competition and profitability and
margin with the New Zealand banks.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
So Nicola Willis didn't raise the subject broadly. You'll get
together in that cold haul over the weekend in any way,
shape or form.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
She referenced it in her speech, as you well know.
But again, we're up for anything and everything that includes
getting more competition to the market. But in fairness, we
need to start at that review with the banks first
and foremost, and then will work out the best way
to what we'll do after that.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
So in being up for anything and everything that presumably
means selling key we bank, then doesn't it potential?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, the first order of effect is actually to bring
in the cheers and CEOs of the banks and worked
out what the hell's going on. I am concerned in
rural banking in particular that they also have been charged
higher interest rates under some pressure at different times by
their banks. I'm concerned, you know that I want to
look at bank profitability and margins relative to other parts
of the world, and I make sure we've got a

(05:56):
competitive market and we've also got a fair market.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay, As regards education generally, the eighty four percent opposition
that ECE regulation changes, which is I think I'm right
in saying they're sort of act driven. But Erica Stanford
was on the program yesterday, obviously on this maths business,
and all I heard from our newsroom were a bunch
of unionists whining about how it's not you know, we're
doing fine, et cetera, et cetera. She said, don't we're
not doing fine? Well, no, exactly, I know we're all

(06:21):
we I mean, you can't argue with the fact we're
not doing fine. She said, you don't listen to the unions.
We've got to stop listening to the unions. Does she
have a fear point?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, I mean they can criticize us as much as
they want. I mean, we're coming out to we're worried
about parents, and we're worried about kids, and so no disrespect.
But when four out of five of our kids are
not READI coded to do math high school, that is
a major, major problem. When three out of five of
them are actually more than a year behind where they
should be, major major problems. So we are moving heaven
and earth to make sure we pull that curriculum ford

(06:50):
a year. We've now got the Teaching Council good on them.
They've responded to that same data and said, you know,
we've got to actually put an entry level requirement that
teachers coming into the system can have a lot called
form sex or level two maths, which would be good
because they're not being they ever felt confident to teach
maths to our kids. We're putting more money into professional
dealings for the existing teachers. We're doing two years the assessments.

(07:11):
We've got error in our focus on achievement and earlier
interventions around schools not achieving academically. So you know, look,
there's only two things we've got to do with our
kids at the moment in education, and we might you know,
we're sacrificing it and we want to push back the
nice to do stuff. We must do stuff is actually
teach our kids to read and teach them to do maths,
because how on earth do you get a four lane
highway from Aukland Finerray with the future generations they can't

(07:33):
do maths. How do you become the world leading country
and egre science if we don't have our kids knowing
how to do maths and to read properly.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
So where I am on my point is that the
humans are arguing with you. They're saying you're wrong, and
it's only that you've had my money find it's just
the same old, same old.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Look, we are focused on outcomes, and there is no
way you can say anyone in New Zealand irrespect of
your politics. And there's not a political issue anymore to
New Zealand issue. Four out of five kids not ready
to go for maths into high school. And if you're
a thirteen year old and you sharp at high school
and you do mass like a ten or eleven year old,
no wonder you don't want to be at school anymore.
So then it links very quickly into attendance. So you know,

(08:12):
we're focused on two things achievement maths and reading and
attendance get kids to school. And if we can just
do those basics, well, and that may well mean that, yes,
we're going to defer our arts and music curriculum for now,
but we're going to focus on doing everything to get
those jobs done.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Right. Can you explain how it was you ever expected
a teacher who couldn't even get NCEEA Level two maths
to teach maths was going to work? How's that possible?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, well, that's been a challenge because you know, I
remember looking at the days of a year and a
half ago, forty percent that our teachers teaching year four kids,
which are nine year olds, don't feel enough, don't have
confidence to teach maths properly.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
So has the never passed the starting I mean, what
do you expect?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
It hasn't been a requirement, hasn't been a requirement, and
now it will be going forward?

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, I know you're fixing it. I mean this goes
back to this conversation we keep having every week, which
is like, I just can't understand the idiocy that's driven
this country. How do you expect a teacher who can't
do maths then go along and teach maths. It doesn't work,
It was never going to It doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
It doesn't work. But the point is, I can't wallow
in the past, Bok. I have to focus on the future.
So I have to deal with the set of facts
and cards that I've been dealt and I'm trying to
fix things. And so one of the things we've got
to fix is clearly mathsive reading and education in general.
So we're being ruthlessly focused on saying we want everybody
coming to the Ministry of Education, everyone going to school today,

(09:35):
every parent to be getting their kids to school, to
focus on reading and mathematics and attendance because those are
the things that are going to set New Zealand up
for success, and so have kids up for success. And
you know, as I keep saying, I'm passionate about education
because I'm a kid who you know, parents have scoro
at fifteen sixteen, I did well because they had a
good education. And I want that for every key WEEKID,
irrespective where they come from, or what background they come

(09:57):
from or home life. So we've got to do this
and we've got to be you know, and we're going
to do it at speed, and we're going to do
it with ruthless focus and frankly, commentators pundits can say
what Union can say whatever the hell they want, but
we're to getting this job done.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Appreciate your time. Chris Well luxem Prime Minister. Tuesday Morning's
on The Mic Asking Breakfast. For more from The Mic
Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be from
six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio