Geoff Cooper: Infrastructure Commission GM on the legislation that would allow the introduction of congestion charging

The Infrastructure Commission says at the end of the day, congestion charging is all about efficiency. 

Legislation is coming to clear the way for councils to propose making motorists pay for using busy routes at rush hour. 

The aim is to encourage public transport, car-pooling, and off-peak travel. 

Infrastructure Commission General Manager Geoff Cooper told Mike Hosking it allows councils to make the most of the transport network they already have. 

He says the focus is now on efficiency across the network, which is a positive step for future investment. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've got a congestion tax on its way. Basically, the
government allows councils will to introduce charges on local roads.
The theory is that shifts traffic flow and raises money
and solves congestion. New Zealand Infrastructure Commissions General Manager Jeff
Cooper is with us on this. Jeff, very good morning
to you.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, thanks Mike, good to be here. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Rick, largely confined. Do you think to Auckland or you
see it in a place like Wellington christ Us as well?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Look, I mean I hope not. This is the sort
of thing that all of our cities need to be
thinking about at one point or another. Right, they should
be planning for this in the decades to come. Auckland
and I probably throw Todoer and Pepswell he did are
the ones that you'd be thinking about.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
First, Okay, and do what. I don't believe Simon Brown
for a moment, as much as I make back the idea,
and I do, but I don't believe it's not about
revenue raising. It's exactly about revenue raising, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, I think what they've said out here and this
is not dissimilar to the previous government as well, they've
tried to focus city councils on the utilization of the esset.
They want to smooth the peaks because we've spent so
long trying to build the peak and we know that
doesn't work. So I think as a sort of guardrail
for how we're going to do this, that's a positive step.
Of Course, they do raise revenue, right, and you've got

(01:08):
to figure out what to do with that revenue. And
the direction here is a little different to what we
saw previously.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Right, so you would use it for roads presumably.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, what they've said here is that they'll ring fence
it for the region, so that's not different to what
we've heard before. But what they've said is that they'll
bring in more weight for ends TA right, they've called
them a majority partner, and that they'll be shared revenues.
So what this really means is that, you know, we're
going to see a bit more partnership between government and
local government as to how these are spent within the region.

(01:38):
And of course that brings risks all of its own.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Is it inflationary? I mean, a career has to go
from A to B at the time that the Korean
needs to go from A to B and they're suddenly
going to pay for that, and that's money into the economy,
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, you know, we already spend far more on our
transportation than we actually collect and transportation revenues right the
NLTF is bursting at the seams. Public transport fair do
not cover themselves, and so ultimately I would think more
about this being a change in how we're paying rather
than how much we're paying.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Do you need to control councils because once you give
them the right to start charging, where does it stop?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Do you need to control check? I think there's probably
horses for causes approach here. I mean, I think for
this one, you need councils getting some upside from congestion.
Charging like this is one of the most difficult policies
to get in. You know, worldwide, there's only a few
cities where this has worked. Where it has worked, it's
had significant reductions and severe congestion. Right, so we know

(02:35):
that this is the right thing to be focusing on.
But of course you need local governments to get something
out of it, and that has to be has to
be the revenue and the ability to manage the asset base.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
The reason I ask is you look at u Las
and Young London's just goes wider and wider and wider.
There's no stopping them.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
What a breach, starting to breach the city limits and whatnot?

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Well, exactly the way up in Edinburgh before you know it.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, question charging is always something you want to think
about as a pricing mechanism if there's congestion around right,
So ultimately it continues to move wherever the congestion is
and spreads. It spreads it from that location and ultimately
that the point of it is that you spend less
on trans foot infrastructure, not more. So you know this
is about benefiting urban residents, not collecting more in taxes.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Good on you, Jef, nice to talk, You appreciate it.
Jeff Cooper's the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission General Manager. Of course,
it's going to be a while before they get the
legislation through parliament. And part of the reason I will
raise this in an hour with Christopher Luxen is the
reason it's going taking so long to get through Parliament's
Parliament's never open. You notice that they've like three or
four weeks off for the school holidays. Then they came
back for the last two weeks, and they're off again.
Luxeon's in the studio? Is he in the studio this morning?

(03:41):
He's in the studio this morning. Is no Parliament? Why
is Parliament closed this week? For God's sake? What's the
matter with them? For more from the mic Asking Breakfast,
listen live to news talks there'd be from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.