Lester Levy: Health NZ Commissioner on the internal presentation suggesting frontline staff cuts

Health New Zealand is adamant frontline roles are safe from cuts. 

The health agency has been tasked with reining in the sector's budget and a commissioner replaced the board last month after concerns of serious overspending. 

Staff have been told to dismiss a presentation suggesting job cuts could come from hundreds of doctors and more than a thousand nurses. 

Commissioner Lester Levy told Mike Hosking Health NZ Chief Executive Margie Apa should've shut this down. 

He says this behaviour's unacceptable at all levels, and says she needs to sort the consequences. 

Levy says it's deeply concerning someone even thought about this. 

He says its either resistance, reluctance, or sabotage. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's something fundamentally wrong at New Zealand Health or Health
New Zealand. We seem to have a standoff, if not
a scrap, between the new commissioner and the management over
staff numbers in frontline hiring. So during internal briefing this week,
senior leadership, we're telling staff of a proposal to cut
four hundred and seventy specialists nearly fifteen hundred nurses. So
how is that possible when the promises there's no frontline cuts.

(00:20):
Lester Leviy is with us on this one.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Very good morning to you, Good morning way.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
So in one of your texts quote there will be consequences.
No explanation can satisfy me. How could somebody even make
a slide like that. We're trying to do the opposite.
We're trying to strengthen the front line. I can't even
explain it to you. I mean, this is just so bizarre. So,
apart from that, thing's going well.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well. As you know, Mike, Health New Zealand is in
crisis and there's a number of difficulties and one of
the issues is we need to get back to budget
and in doing so, we need to be more disciplined
than our spending, But I was very clear from the
upset that the clinical front line is immune will not
be reduced or cut. In fact, as we get our

(01:06):
finances and better shape on his strengthen our frontline. So yeah,
I found this totally unacceptable.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
How does it happen given you know, I know anyone
who listens to this program knows the politicians know there
is no cutting to the front line, and yet they
busy themselves putting frontline at risk. Why do they do it?

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, I mean, the front line wouldn't be at risklessyst
never happened because everything would have to come through mis commissioner.
But what really worries is that somebody would even think
about this, would actually develop a slide, would actually show
it in a meeting, and that people wouldn't shut that
down immediately. As soon as I heard about it, because

(01:48):
I've got a text from a senior doctor, I immediately
contacted the death executive and uptily shut it down. She
delegated that to a senior manager. We sent out a
message to the people who were in that meeting that
I regard it as not definitive enough for myself and
my fellow deputy commissions and all staff email out clarifying

(02:13):
a position very definitively. This is unacceptable. It's never going
to happen. But the fact that it did happen is
a deep councern. The fact that somebody even thought about
it and when it was raised, it wasn't shut down.
It's a deep concerned.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
To me, why is Magiapa still in work?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, I'll get asked this question a lot. Look, we're
in a crisis at the moment, and we got all
hands to the pump. Now, change has already been made
in the executive leadership team, and at the moment she
is doing what you're asking her to do. She could
have and should have shut this down her Now I
have a very transparent working relationships. Unacceptable, it can't happen again,

(02:56):
But we do need to move forward. I guess, like
the realist things, if everybody who made a mistake was fired,
there'd be nobody left.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Well, especially it helps you.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's a serious situation and it cannot happen again.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
I just you haven't explained. I'm I'm not attacking you
because I'm defending you, because you've got a hell of
a job in front of you. But is this deliberate.
I mean, you can't not know that the front line
is safe. It's as clear as day, and you're presenting
an option to cut the front line. Is it deliberate?
Is it treasonous?

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, I think to be fair to her, she was
also taken by surprise. But the reality is yes, it
is either resistance, reluctance, or sabotage. And it's a big
organization and people behave in different ways. We are looking
to get alignment, but moving forward, this behavior is just
totally unacceptable at all levels. I've had a very straight

(03:49):
conversation with her. She needs to sort out the consequences
because she is the employer and she will need to
do that.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Good on you, appreciate your time and don't envy your word.
Let's deleviy the Health New Zealand Commissioner. For more from
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