The Police Minister says the wheel of justice is turning too slowly following a major seizure of gang assets.
After a 10 year investigation and court process, the Head Hunters gang is being ordered to forfeit $15 million in properties and assets.
It's being marked as a major win for Police, but some are criticizing the length of time it's taken to happen.
Mark Mitchell told Mike Hosking the court's ruling sends a clear message to gangs, but could have happened quicker.
Labour’s Ginny Andersen said that the recent legislative change that flips the onus onto the gang members to prove their acquisitions were legal makes it easier for Police to seize assets.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Politics Time Politics Wednesday. Ginny Anderson with us along with
Mark Mitchell. Morning to both of you, journey Mark, I'll
ask both of you, but given you on the role
currently Mark, this this headhunter's thing yesterday, fifteen million dollars
worth of assets are having to be seized, et cetera,
et cetera. Is there something wrong with the law in
this country that needs amending that you can surely see
(00:21):
an operation of that size and ask yourself the obvious question,
which is I wonder if they went to work to
earn all that money, and then having answered it with
the word no, why isn't that stuff enacted faster?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, I mean it is. So the law has changed
back in two thousand and nine around that round proceeds
of crime. So the outcome that the judges ruling is
very very good. Sends a very clear message to gains
that if they want to appropriate property through ill gotten
games in the state, and the police are going to
take ettion on that. But of course we're constantly sort
of scanning the horizon and looking at legislation and seeing
(00:56):
whether or not it needs improvement, especially in justice and
public So.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
To Ginny, do you argue the laws of find the
way they are.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We changed them after most recently in the last couple
of years, so that we flipped the owner. So the
criminal their cues has to prove what they got was
got legally. Was previously you needed forensic accountants to try
improve that they'd got it illegally. So it is much
easier now for those processes for restraining and forfeiting illegal
(01:26):
button gains.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So is it mark just the wheels of justice turned
too slowly, because I mean, I'm that building that's been
seized now that that's been there for years.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yes, ten, Yeah, So the short answer is, yes, the
wheels of justice are turning too slowly, and obviously there's
there's a big folks we're doing as the incoming government
to make that more efficient.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Because it just it's almost struck me as a sort
of ironic Jenny that I know where these guys get
their Harley Davidson's from, and it's not from good, legitimate work,
So why are they driving them?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
We're pleased to a good dog, and I think flipping
that owner so the crominal now has to prove they've
got it legally makes it a lot easier for police.
I've been to the warehouse where they have all the
stuff that have had and they hold it there until
the court case is completed. So while they'll take it
put it in the warehouse, they still have to go
through that process of proving it before they can sell it,
(02:22):
and the problem often is it depreciates over that time.
But just interestingly in that warehouse is actually a tank
the police have are confiscated a tank of someone and
it's sitting in there, so waiting for that one to.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Make that fuld trade.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah you could.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You never know what you get for a tank, mark,
are you sorry? Carry on?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Just the other thing that we are doing is that
when that legislation went through, a part of the legislation
that Jilly was talking about went through the government's the
threshold of thirty thousand dollars above the advice against the
advice of the place, the police said we won't. So
we're looking at changing that because you know it'll be
it'll mean that it's far more effective. Okay in terms
of being able to see zis ginny.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
This oil and gas debate. Hipkins comes out yesterday say
if you get back into power, you're going to ban
it once again. What do you tell the people who
are losing their jobs, you know right now, literally losing
their jobs because their employer can't afford to pay power.
We don't have the gas, we don't have the supply,
and what you were advocating for maybe one day works,
that's fantastic. Right now it doesn't. What do you say
(03:26):
to them.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
The problem we have is that there hasn't been any
new discovery of guests for over twenty years. And it's
not for lack of trying. But even if we did
find a natural guess, it'll be another five to ten
years before it came online. So just pointing to LNG
as a solution is not it's not going to affect that.
The problem we've got is those large generator retailers who
(03:49):
are focused on mex To my Hair profits and when
we have a cold dry wind tilot we've got, they
rub their hands because they make a good profit on
that debt. That's the market that's broken.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, it's okay, So why didn't you fix the market
when you had succeeds.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
This has been an ongoing This has been an ongoing
issue of generations, and part of the issue is that
we need a variety of different ways of addressing it.
So you need solar, you need wins, you need GFRM
or and so there are a number of projects that
have been consented that are a new ways of generating electricity.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But Genny, this is all the theory. This is what
I've been hearing from you for the last six years.
And I get, I mean, I disagree with you that
the market's broken, but be that as it may. The
fact is right here, right now, we cannot produce power
in this country that companies can afford, and people are
losing their jobs to those people.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You say, what, it's a significant problem for New Zealand,
and we need to invest in more solar, more people
being able to generate schools, hospitals. That's that's the way
forward is to have other forms of generation that's not
relying on hydro and to utify that. And we will
have we need to have more cross partty agreement on
(05:05):
how we get here.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Okay, Mark, you say what new oil and guess.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
A look, energy shortages are driving electricity prices higher, so
you know we have to take it. Should secure abundant,
affordable energy that families and businesses can rely on and
actually have certainty around and luckily most families have been
insulated by the recent price sites, but the impact on
businesses has been significant. And at the end of the day,
(05:31):
our plan is to unleash the energy we need, myke,
whether it's renewable soul or wind and hydro or the natural.
Guess we need to keep the light on instead of
dirty Indonesian coal.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Problem you've got now is in trying and Shane Jones
has talked about this a lot in the house is
the problem is you've got to go out into the
world and you go, right, we're open for business, come
on and there as a license start exploring why would
they when Hipkins yesterday said the moment we get back,
it's off.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So Ginny Anderson just said this should be a bi
partisan approach to this. Totally agree. So let's see them
step forward so that we'll agree to give us some certainly,
so that we can get the investment that we need
our energy sector, so that we're not placed in a
position like we're a banana a public and we can't
deliver the energy that we need in our country.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And that's the problem, though, Jenny, isn't it with with
bipartisan approaches. You've got to be sort of in the
same room on this. You're not you do you do?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And part of the issue we have is the fact
that they haven't found any LNG for twenty years, and
even for you to get it, it's not going to
suck the current problem. So you need a mixture. And
I think that we're investing in bigger solar projects and
wind is important to New Zealand given our geography and
the benefits we have to generate energy. But I think
(06:44):
it's it's unacceptable. It's completely unacceptable that we have big
scale businesses in New Zealand that's limiting our productivity because
we're there and able to get the power. They need
to keep it.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Exactly, but do we accept it all your energy policies.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
It's mark You know that because you know that twenty
years we haven't found LNG. So you can cross fingers
and hope they're going to find some ling and great,
you know if you do that, but the chances are
pretty limited. That's not the solution to the problem we're facing.
And if you think it's the we're never gonna move.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
But here's just let me step in the middle. You
guys seem to be an agreement. We're all actually, we
all seem to be an agreement. Renewables are a good idea,
and if we all had solar, and we all had wind,
and we all had some hydro and stuff, all of
that's fantastic. But the problem is we don't, and we've
been caught badly short in the transitionary period. And part
of the ANSWER's lerg and part of the answers something
(07:37):
you see what I'm saying. See what I'm saying. So
what you're still arguing ideology, Jenny, but people are losing
their jobs while you argue it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
That's right, and you need a transition fuel, and we
do have natural guess and that's what we should be
using instead of the coal. And that's it's just it's ironic.
It's ridiculous that you've got, specially a labor governments supported
by the Greens, that we're having to portant news coal
and we've got natural guess. So there is natural guess
available and it's our transition energy and we should have
(08:05):
been using it instead of having I don't know it
canceled and you and you canceled any exploration or any
harvesting of a of a fuel that we actually need.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
In No, we didn't. We stopped. We got new license,
so that I was looking at you.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Jilly once again, that's ideology. All the people with licenses
gave them back. They're packed up and went home. They
saw there's no we're gone.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
What would you so? What?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
What isn't your government invested in solar power? Why don't
we have schools?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Hospital?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
We're first, but there are large process but they're a
large process problem.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
The problem is the problem is this. If there's no
sun and there's no rain and there's no wind, then
what do you need a transition energy that is able
to fill the gap? And these energy policies have put
us in an awful position.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Quick question before we end, Mark Carmel Seppaloni double dipping
on Treasure Island scandal or not?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
No comment?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Why is it so if she if she wants to
as a politician, If you want to go and do
some television and get paid for that while you're being
paid as an MP, that's okay according to.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You, that's something for the Labor Party and for the
lead of the Labor Party to sort out and figure out.
You know, we're paid to do a job, and it's
a serious job and you should take it seriously.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well, she donates to that time to charity.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, but that's once everyone said, hey, how come you
double dipping? She and she suddenly discovered a charity she
was going to get to.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Said was her appearance and too cellary at the time, Right,
do you have.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Time to appear on television reality television?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
But I would definitely watch it if you were on it, Mike,
because if you're in Treland, I think everyone would watch.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That would be really you'd take it out question.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
There was no question. That's no question I want, of course,
And I don't know you guys, you're so off track.
Ginny Anderson Mark Mitchell.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Politics Time Politics Wednesday. Ginny Anderson with us along with
Mark Mitchell. Morning to both of you, journey Mark, I'll
ask both of you, but given you on the role
currently Mark, this this headhunter's thing yesterday, fifteen million dollars
worth of assets are having to be seized, et cetera,
et cetera. Is there something wrong with the law in
this country that needs amending that you can surely see
(00:21):
an operation of that size and ask yourself the obvious question,
which is I wonder if they went to work to
earn all that money, and then having answered it with
the word no, why isn't that stuff enacted faster?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, I mean it is. So the law has changed
back in two thousand and nine around that round proceeds
of crime. So the outcome that the judges ruling is
very very good. Sends a very clear message to gains
that if they want to appropriate property through ill gotten
games in the state, and the police are going to
take ettion on that. But of course we're constantly sort
of scanning the horizon and looking at legislation and seeing
(00:56):
whether or not it needs improvement, especially in justice and
public So.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
To Ginny, do you argue the laws of find the
way they are.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We changed them after most recently in the last couple
of years, so that we flipped the owner. So the
criminal their cues has to prove what they got was
got legally. Was previously you needed forensic accountants to try
improve that they'd got it illegally. So it is much
easier now for those processes for restraining and forfeiting illegal
(01:26):
button gains.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So is it mark just the wheels of justice turned
too slowly, because I mean, I'm that building that's been
seized now that that's been there for years.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yes, ten, Yeah, So the short answer is, yes, the
wheels of justice are turning too slowly, and obviously there's
there's a big folks we're doing as the incoming government
to make that more efficient.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Because it just it's almost struck me as a sort
of ironic Jenny that I know where these guys get
their Harley Davidson's from, and it's not from good, legitimate work,
So why are they driving them?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
We're pleased to a good dog, and I think flipping
that owner so the crominal now has to prove they've
got it legally makes it a lot easier for police.
I've been to the warehouse where they have all the
stuff that have had and they hold it there until
the court case is completed. So while they'll take it
put it in the warehouse, they still have to go
through that process of proving it before they can sell it,
(02:22):
and the problem often is it depreciates over that time.
But just interestingly in that warehouse is actually a tank
the police have are confiscated a tank of someone and
it's sitting in there, so waiting for that one to.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Make that fuld trade.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah you could.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You never know what you get for a tank, mark,
are you sorry? Carry on?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Just the other thing that we are doing is that
when that legislation went through, a part of the legislation
that Jilly was talking about went through the government's the
threshold of thirty thousand dollars above the advice against the
advice of the place, the police said we won't. So
we're looking at changing that because you know it'll be
it'll mean that it's far more effective. Okay in terms
of being able to see zis ginny.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
This oil and gas debate. Hipkins comes out yesterday say
if you get back into power, you're going to ban
it once again. What do you tell the people who
are losing their jobs, you know right now, literally losing
their jobs because their employer can't afford to pay power.
We don't have the gas, we don't have the supply,
and what you were advocating for maybe one day works,
that's fantastic. Right now it doesn't. What do you say
(03:26):
to them.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
The problem we have is that there hasn't been any
new discovery of guests for over twenty years. And it's
not for lack of trying. But even if we did
find a natural guess, it'll be another five to ten
years before it came online. So just pointing to LNG
as a solution is not it's not going to affect that.
The problem we've got is those large generator retailers who
(03:49):
are focused on mex To my Hair profits and when
we have a cold dry wind tilot we've got, they
rub their hands because they make a good profit on
that debt. That's the market that's broken.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, it's okay, So why didn't you fix the market
when you had succeeds.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
This has been an ongoing This has been an ongoing
issue of generations, and part of the issue is that
we need a variety of different ways of addressing it.
So you need solar, you need wins, you need GFRM
or and so there are a number of projects that
have been consented that are a new ways of generating electricity.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But Genny, this is all the theory. This is what
I've been hearing from you for the last six years.
And I get, I mean, I disagree with you that
the market's broken, but be that as it may. The
fact is right here, right now, we cannot produce power
in this country that companies can afford, and people are
losing their jobs to those people.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You say, what, it's a significant problem for New Zealand,
and we need to invest in more solar, more people
being able to generate schools, hospitals. That's that's the way
forward is to have other forms of generation that's not
relying on hydro and to utify that. And we will
have we need to have more cross partty agreement on
(05:05):
how we get here.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Okay, Mark, you say what new oil and guess.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
A look, energy shortages are driving electricity prices higher, so
you know we have to take it. Should secure abundant,
affordable energy that families and businesses can rely on and
actually have certainty around and luckily most families have been
insulated by the recent price sites, but the impact on
businesses has been significant. And at the end of the day,
(05:31):
our plan is to unleash the energy we need, myke,
whether it's renewable soul or wind and hydro or the natural.
Guess we need to keep the light on instead of
dirty Indonesian coal.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Problem you've got now is in trying and Shane Jones
has talked about this a lot in the house is
the problem is you've got to go out into the
world and you go, right, we're open for business, come
on and there as a license start exploring why would
they when Hipkins yesterday said the moment we get back,
it's off.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So Ginny Anderson just said this should be a bi
partisan approach to this. Totally agree. So let's see them
step forward so that we'll agree to give us some certainly,
so that we can get the investment that we need
our energy sector, so that we're not placed in a
position like we're a banana a public and we can't
deliver the energy that we need in our country.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And that's the problem, though, Jenny, isn't it with with
bipartisan approaches. You've got to be sort of in the
same room on this. You're not you do you do?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And part of the issue we have is the fact
that they haven't found any LNG for twenty years, and
even for you to get it, it's not going to
suck the current problem. So you need a mixture. And
I think that we're investing in bigger solar projects and
wind is important to New Zealand given our geography and
the benefits we have to generate energy. But I think
(06:44):
it's it's unacceptable. It's completely unacceptable that we have big
scale businesses in New Zealand that's limiting our productivity because
we're there and able to get the power. They need
to keep it.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Exactly, but do we accept it all your energy policies.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
It's mark You know that because you know that twenty
years we haven't found LNG. So you can cross fingers
and hope they're going to find some ling and great,
you know if you do that, but the chances are
pretty limited. That's not the solution to the problem we're facing.
And if you think it's the we're never gonna move.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
But here's just let me step in the middle. You
guys seem to be an agreement. We're all actually, we
all seem to be an agreement. Renewables are a good idea,
and if we all had solar, and we all had wind,
and we all had some hydro and stuff, all of
that's fantastic. But the problem is we don't, and we've
been caught badly short in the transitionary period. And part
of the ANSWER's lerg and part of the answers something
(07:37):
you see what I'm saying. See what I'm saying. So
what you're still arguing ideology, Jenny, but people are losing
their jobs while you argue it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
That's right, and you need a transition fuel, and we
do have natural guess and that's what we should be
using instead of the coal. And that's it's just it's ironic.
It's ridiculous that you've got, specially a labor governments supported
by the Greens, that we're having to portant news coal
and we've got natural guess. So there is natural guess
available and it's our transition energy and we should have
(08:05):
been using it instead of having I don't know it
canceled and you and you canceled any exploration or any
harvesting of a of a fuel that we actually need.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
In No, we didn't. We stopped. We got new license,
so that I was looking at you.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Jilly once again, that's ideology. All the people with licenses
gave them back. They're packed up and went home. They
saw there's no we're gone.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
What would you so? What?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
What isn't your government invested in solar power? Why don't
we have schools?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Hospital?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
We're first, but there are large process but they're a
large process problem.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
The problem is the problem is this. If there's no
sun and there's no rain and there's no wind, then
what do you need a transition energy that is able
to fill the gap? And these energy policies have put
us in an awful position.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Quick question before we end, Mark Carmel Seppaloni double dipping
on Treasure Island scandal or not?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
No comment?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Why is it so if she if she wants to
as a politician, If you want to go and do
some television and get paid for that while you're being
paid as an MP, that's okay according to.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You, that's something for the Labor Party and for the
lead of the Labor Party to sort out and figure out.
You know, we're paid to do a job, and it's
a serious job and you should take it seriously.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well, she donates to that time to charity.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, but that's once everyone said, hey, how come you
double dipping? She and she suddenly discovered a charity she
was going to get to.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Said was her appearance and too cellary at the time, Right,
do you have.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Time to appear on television reality television?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
But I would definitely watch it if you were on it, Mike,
because if you're in Treland, I think everyone would watch.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That would be really you'd take it out question.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
There was no question. That's no question I want, of course,
And I don't know you guys, you're so off track.
Ginny Anderson Mark Mitchell.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!