The Tertiary Education Minister says AUT has good rationale behind its policy to give Māori and Pasifika staff extra points in choosing staff to attend overseas conferences.
AUT says there's a critical shortage of those academic staff in the sector, and the policy helps address that.
The Government's directed the public service to allocate services on need, not race.
Minister Penny Simmonds told Mike Hosking the university has a high proportion of Māori and Pasifika students, and their proportionality of staff isn't as high.
She says they're also trying to build up the research capability of Māori and Pasifika staff.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Where are we at with the aut racist policy of
handing out a better travel deal for employees who happen
to be Mario Pacifica in requesting travel costs. What happens,
as I've told you throughout the week, you fill in
a form, if you happen to be the right race,
you get extra points. This of course goes against the
government that issued this time last week that explicitly states
race should not be a part of decision making. Tertiary
(00:20):
Minister Penny Simmons is with us on this morning to
you good morning right now. They defend it, don't they?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes, they do, And look they have an absolute right
to defend it. And the Education and Training at twenty
twenty gives them that independence and that autonomy to make
those decisions, So that is very clear. I can't direct
them to take notice of the Cabinet circular or the
intent in it. I can only draw it to their attention. Look,
(00:50):
I think, and I've spoken with the Vice Chance for
their damon and I think that aut have got some
good rationale behind this decision. And they are a very
new university. They have a very high proportion of Mariyan
Pacifica students. Their proportionality of staff is not near as
(01:12):
high as their student ratio. And also they are trying
to build up the research capability of their Mariya and
PACIFICA staff. So you know, I've had a good discussion there.
I think, though, Mike, what I'm more worried about is
this wider issue across all universities around the robustness of
(01:37):
their decision making. So universities have got various layers in
their decision making processes, committees and boards and senates, and
I'm seeing numerous surveys and reports and feedback about the
constraints on the ability of academic staff to give their
opinion freely in this decision making.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, well that's all part of it, isn't it, And
that's the problem. An more, by the way it was
on the program yesterday, he did point out that the
circular that came out from Cabinet last week did exclude
university So I fully understand that. Did you express in
a way that they would understand at the very least
the government's view on these matters generally, therefore putting your
side of the case across or were you a bit
weak willed? Penny?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Now I'm going to write to all the universities drawing
their attention to the circular and the intent behind the circular.
So I'll acknowledge, of course, their autonomy, but I want
to draw the attention to that. But more than that,
like I'm going to draw their attention to their decision
making process and ask them to reflect on how robust
(02:39):
it is, because this is where I think the issue is.
It's staff not having that ability to speak freely.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And so that's what a university is, isn't it? Or
supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yes, it should be. And so there are decisions being made.
The recent run about Auckland University having the compulsory horse
on chal Mardi and the treaty you speak.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Of, why Papa tol Marta rowe I do?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I do? And so I think it is really important
to go back that step and look at their decision
making process because while we used to grumble about how
slow and cumbersome that made, the decision making process, that
should be where the winnowing out of ideas takes place.
(03:30):
And so that's where I think there is an issue.
I'm also going to Sir Peter Gluckman in his review
and his panel to have a look at these processes
and dig into more whether we are getting the robustness
that we need and the freedom of speech within those processes.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, we discovered the other day in our family this
why Papa tol Marta Ry. We didn't have any idea
that this was compulsory. We didn't think that compulsory anything
at university was the way universities worked. We were shocked
at what we discovered at that. They claim it gets
you ready for life? Do you think it gets you
ready for life?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Pens Look, I haven't seen the paper, but it's a
pretty big call to make a paper compulsory like that,
and so that's why I am wanting to look at
the decision making process to make sure that there was
freedom of expression in the opinions of academic staff getting
to that decision. And look in the finish, people will
(04:30):
make their decisions about which universities they attend overseas, students
will make their decisions about whether they want to attend
universities where there are compulsory papers like this.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Exactly. Good to see you have a good week. I
appreciate it very much. Penny Simmons, Tish re Education Minister. Yeah,
well look it up, why Papa Tomatrau. It gets you
ready for university, and it gets you ready for life.
Once upon a time. You go to university and explore
and just do whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I thought the point of going to university was to
put off real life.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
While there was that and drinking and stuff like that.
But you know so, and this is the story I
told you the other day. When we went along, they
couldn't explain it. And that was the problem because you
know what Katie's like. She started asking questions and they
just could not explain what it really was. For more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks
(05:20):
it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
Where are we at with the aut racist policy of
handing out a better travel deal for employees who happen
to be Mario Pacifica in requesting travel costs. What happens,
as I've told you throughout the week, you fill in
a form, if you happen to be the right race,
you get extra points. This of course goes against the
government that issued this time last week that explicitly states
race should not be a part of decision making. Tertiary
(00:20):
Minister Penny Simmons is with us on this morning to
you good morning right now. They defend it, don't they?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes, they do, And look they have an absolute right
to defend it. And the Education and Training at twenty
twenty gives them that independence and that autonomy to make
those decisions, So that is very clear. I can't direct
them to take notice of the Cabinet circular or the
intent in it. I can only draw it to their attention. Look,
(00:50):
I think, and I've spoken with the Vice Chance for
their damon and I think that aut have got some
good rationale behind this decision. And they are a very
new university. They have a very high proportion of Mariyan
Pacifica students. Their proportionality of staff is not near as
(01:12):
high as their student ratio. And also they are trying
to build up the research capability of their Mariya and
PACIFICA staff. So you know, I've had a good discussion there.
I think, though, Mike, what I'm more worried about is
this wider issue across all universities around the robustness of
(01:37):
their decision making. So universities have got various layers in
their decision making processes, committees and boards and senates, and
I'm seeing numerous surveys and reports and feedback about the
constraints on the ability of academic staff to give their
opinion freely in this decision making.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, well that's all part of it, isn't it, And
that's the problem. An more, by the way it was
on the program yesterday, he did point out that the
circular that came out from Cabinet last week did exclude
university So I fully understand that. Did you express in
a way that they would understand at the very least
the government's view on these matters generally, therefore putting your
side of the case across or were you a bit
weak willed? Penny?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Now I'm going to write to all the universities drawing
their attention to the circular and the intent behind the circular.
So I'll acknowledge, of course, their autonomy, but I want
to draw the attention to that. But more than that,
like I'm going to draw their attention to their decision
making process and ask them to reflect on how robust
(02:39):
it is, because this is where I think the issue is.
It's staff not having that ability to speak freely.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And so that's what a university is, isn't it? Or
supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yes, it should be. And so there are decisions being made.
The recent run about Auckland University having the compulsory horse
on chal Mardi and the treaty you speak.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Of, why Papa tol Marta rowe I do?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I do? And so I think it is really important
to go back that step and look at their decision
making process because while we used to grumble about how
slow and cumbersome that made, the decision making process, that
should be where the winnowing out of ideas takes place.
(03:30):
And so that's where I think there is an issue.
I'm also going to Sir Peter Gluckman in his review
and his panel to have a look at these processes
and dig into more whether we are getting the robustness
that we need and the freedom of speech within those processes.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, we discovered the other day in our family this
why Papa tol Marta Ry. We didn't have any idea
that this was compulsory. We didn't think that compulsory anything
at university was the way universities worked. We were shocked
at what we discovered at that. They claim it gets
you ready for life? Do you think it gets you
ready for life?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Pens Look, I haven't seen the paper, but it's a
pretty big call to make a paper compulsory like that,
and so that's why I am wanting to look at
the decision making process to make sure that there was
freedom of expression in the opinions of academic staff getting
to that decision. And look in the finish, people will
(04:30):
make their decisions about which universities they attend overseas, students
will make their decisions about whether they want to attend
universities where there are compulsory papers like this.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Exactly. Good to see you have a good week. I
appreciate it very much. Penny Simmons, Tish re Education Minister. Yeah,
well look it up, why Papa Tomatrau. It gets you
ready for university, and it gets you ready for life.
Once upon a time. You go to university and explore
and just do whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I thought the point of going to university was to
put off real life.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
While there was that and drinking and stuff like that.
But you know so, and this is the story I
told you the other day. When we went along, they
couldn't explain it. And that was the problem because you
know what Katie's like. She started asking questions and they
just could not explain what it really was. For more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks
(05:20):
it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com