Louise Upston: Social Development Minister on the 'dire' beneficiary numbers

The Social Development Minister says beneficiary figures are dire.  

Jobseeker Support beneficiaries who are 'work-ready' spend an average 13 or more years on a benefit over their lives.  

People under 25 on Jobseeker spend an average of 18 more years on a benefit – 49% longer than in 2017.  

Those under 20 who were receiving a youth benefit spend an average 23 more years receiving one.  

Social Development Minister Louise Upston told Mike Hosking 23 years out of work is half one's working age. 

Their income and opportunities are far less than someone who’s been in employment, she says, which is something she’s not willing to tolerate. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So new insight into the damaged social welfare is doing
lives around the country. The Ministry of Social Development has
got these new numbers this morning. Those under twenty five
on a main benefit, we'll spend an average of twenty
more years on a benefit over their lifetime. Under twenty
fives on job seeker will spend an average of eighteen years.
Those under twenty who are receiving a youth benefit will
spend an average of about twenty three years on a benefit.

(00:21):
Now the Minister of Social Development and Employment louis upstince
and chargeable of this since she's with us. Very good
morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Good morning mine.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
I remember talking to you about this. I can't remember
whether you were justin government or in opposition and we
had these numbers. Had those numbers changed up or down
in any material way since we last.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Talked, They haven't really changed. And this data is based
on a report using data from September twenty three that
is pretty dire and it actually shows why we have
to do far more to the welfare certem to make
it more active and not tolerate this sort of forecast.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I feel I'm in a parallel universe. The these numbers
can't be real. Are they real?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
They are real, and they are based on what has
actually happened with people who've been in the job seeker system.
So the model is very accurate. It is a forecast.
And so now it's our job in government to take
more steps to ensure this doesn't happen. And that's what
our job is ahead of.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Us, do we? So I read the numbers to mean
that if you're young, if you're twenty in this twenty
three years, you'll go in and out off of benefit,
on and off of benefit over that twenty three year period.
You might get a job, then you'll lose a job,
get a job, lose a job. Is that right? Or
are these people just on a benefit forever?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
No, it is on and off, as you quite rightly say.
But the reality is if you think about twenty three
years out of your working age, that's fifty percent, so
your income, earnings, your opportunities are far less than someone
who's been an employment and that's just something I'm not
willing to tolerate. That's why we've put so much work

(01:59):
into welfare that works, supporting young people with phone case management,
making that it clear to them. With the traffic light system,
what their obligations are. We're just not willing to sit
back and watch that happen because those are young Kiwis
who deserve the same opportunities that every other key we does.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
It's a gargantuan task then of what I say is correct,
because what you're doing is seeing people on the fringes
of the economy, aren't you. So when things are good,
they'll pick up a job for a year whatever, then
they're back unemployed again. They're probably in the wrong part
of the country. They've got those skills. Those are big
things you've got to turn around.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, and absolutely, when the labor market is tight, young
people are disproportionately affected. But the good news is when
the economy burns, they also pick up employment more quickly.
That we need to ensure they spend less time on welfare,
that they don't get stuck there, and that we get
them on track with some training, with some education, and

(02:55):
definitely with some work opportunities. That's why we've set the
target to reduce the number on jobs see benefit by
fifty thousand in six years, because we know work makes
such a difference to people's lives.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
That's the truth. Do you still as a government see
unemployment still rising. We're going to get out of this
year and into next year and it's going to be
the last lag figure before things turn.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, Unfortunately that is the reality when you come out
of a recession. Unemployment is the last to kind of
feel the effects. Treasury Head forecast that the peak would
be January, so that's likely still to be the case,
but it might lag a bit further than that. Look
at the end of the day, we're not waiting. We're
not waiting for it to get as bad as it

(03:39):
might get. We're taking active steps now to support more
kebs into work or to get them as ready as possible.
So when the economy does turn, businesses have got more confident.
We've got people on our books and MSD is working
incredibly hard so that employers can pick those kiwis up,
those killies live can go forward.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Well, it's hopes. So I appreciate time. Louis Upston, Minister
of Social Development and Employment, I means soberingism. For more
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