David Seymour: Associate Education Minister on concerns around charter school application process

An education provider has “significant concerns” about the charter school application process. 

Operator Education 710+ is asking for a formal review of the process, believing the system is worse now than it was before. 

Associate Education Minister David Seymour tells Mike Hosking there were always going to be people who were disappointed, due to 78 applications for new charter schools where there is only budget for 15. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Some concerns around the process of charter schools. One of
the applicants, a company called Education seventeen plus, made four submissions,
but the agency set up to process them told them
to pick one. The suggestion is that it appears a
spread of schools across the country as being prioritized over
the best applicants. The Associate Education Ministry is, of course
David Symour, who is with us good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good morning mate.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
So the concern appears to come from Olwen Pool, who
of course is a seasoned campaigner in the wonderful world
of charter schools. Does he have a point?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
No, he doesn't. The only point that is valid is
that there were seventy eight applications and in the budget
we only have money for fifteen. So there were always
going to be people who were disappointed, particularly people who
had some very good applications. I'm not saying whether Elwyn
Pool's was one of those, but it's certainly true that

(00:51):
some people with good applications are going to be missed
out this time and maybe have to apply next time
to get the kind of charters.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Saw the number of charter schools we'd all like, did
he misunderstand the rules? Of engagement. In other words, he
applied four times, presumably because he knows what he's doing.
He might well have had four good applications. The money's
simply not there the supply. The demand outstripped the supply.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
That's as simple as that. I mean, for all the
people that say that we don't need charter schools, there's
seventy eight different applications to have them. They are pretty
very in quality. I look at old and Paul. He
certainly run charter schools in the past, he's run an
independent school. He did all of those as a husband
and wife team with his former wife. When he was

(01:38):
doing it with her. I thought the applications and the
schools were very, very impressive.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay, So is there a possibility that the demand will
meet the supply eventually if things go well?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah. I think as people see these charter schools work,
and as they become a more normal part of New Zealand,
I think you'll see more existing state schools convert and
see a lot more of them. But you know, we're
in a situation where the government's budget's not great. Opening
new ones, at least initially, does cost a little bit
more money, and so we've rationed that at fifteen new

(02:12):
ones and thirty five conversions. Most of the applications we've
had have been for new ones. So it's simply a
matter off. Not everyone can be a winner. Some people
are going to be disappointed.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Indeed, cannot talk to you without the obvious this coming week.
Where are you at with meeting these people?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, I was pretty open minded and said, look, I'll
meet these guys. I mean, why wouldn't I talk to them?
I said that we should have a conversation about the treaty.
Two points becomes increasingly clear that with this guy, Erew
cutter Kini, he's actually the son of a Maori Party MP,
stood for the Marii Party as a candidate and at
least until recently and possibly now was a staffer on

(02:54):
the Maori Party's parliamentary role. It's quite possible that he
still is and has been doing this whole thing on
the taxpayer. So this is a Maori Party initiative. It's
not as much of a spontaneous uprising as people would
like them to think. This equally, and second of all,
after the behavior of Te Party mari in Parliament, I'm

(03:17):
having second thoughts about whether there's a lot to be
gained around a conversation here, so I stay open minded,
but I'm less keen than I was a week ago.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Is this one of these problems though, because never the
Twain shall meet having watched what happened to it, it
doesn't matter what you say, and from their point of view,
it doesn't matter what they say either. I mean, you're
never going to meet in the middle or anywhere close
to it. Hence the division. Is there more trouble than
it's worth.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
I think it's really important to differentiate tear Party Maori
from Marii spokespeople, Maori representatives mightly people. Frankly, you know
there's seven of us in the cabinets of the current government.
On the other hand, to Party Marii, I would say
representing and bringing up the worst in martyrdom. And what

(04:04):
worries me is that there'll be a lot of people
in New Zealand who believe that the Party Mary speak
for all Mary. They certainly don't. They don't speak for me.
There's a lot of people saying that what they did
in Parliament last week it's not just a national but
international embarrassment, And frankly, I think we've got to start
recognizing that this is a minority, not a minority as

(04:27):
in Mari, a minority within Marydom that is giving everybody
a bad name. And it's their behavior that's I don't
want to meet with, happy to meet with anyone else.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Right. So when Chris fin Layson says it's on you,
and when Jenny Shipley, I thought it was extraordinary, but
she said, you're inviting civil war? What do you say?

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, I think Jenny Shipley, it sounds like she took
about as much care on those comments as she took
on reviewing the accounts. When two director at Mainziel, quite frankly,
I just don't know why she would say that. It
is grossly irresponsible, especially for a former prime minister. And
as Chris finlasson, he's showing the kind of haughtiness and

(05:15):
bitterness that is unbecoming of someone who's had their time
as a politician and should really be proud of their
achievements and ready to move on. But the real truth
of both those two is that great relations today are
very much a product of the influence that they've had
in the last twenty years. If people believe there's division,

(05:36):
it hasn't been created by my bill. It's been revealed
by my bill because my bill calls for equal rights
for all New Zealanders. And what we've seen is that
there are a lot of people who don't want equal rights.
They want a society where some people are tongue to
Fenowa or land people, and others are tongue to Tadti.

(05:57):
Jenny Shipley and Chris Finlason has fostered that belief that
New Zealand is actually a partnership between two collectives, which
in turn are defined by ancestry. It's never worked anywhere
in the world. It's not working here. I'm challenging that
in saying New Zealand should be a society with a

(06:18):
treaty that based on a treaty that gave us natkangakatota
taki or the same rights and duties. If they don't
like that, then that's fine that they have to take
some responsibility for their role in creating today's reality.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Appreciate your time, David Seymour, Associate Education Minister, and of
course for your principles, Bill Minister, I suppose you call
them for more from the mic asking Breakfast listen Live
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