December 9, 2024 • 9 mins
The Prime Minister says the argument for stopping bootcamps is ridiculous.
Police found two bootcamp teens who'd absconded when they responded to an alleged carjacking in Hamilton over the weekend.
One evaded Oranga Tamariki staff at the tangi of another participant who'd died in a crash and fled.
Christopher Luxon told Heather du Plessis-Allan it's a defeatist and negative mindset to throw the towel in now.
He says they're trying to change the life of even one of the 10 teens, one where they don't go down a path of gang life, violence, jail time, and welfare dependency.
Luxon’s given his assurance new Cook Strait ferries will be cheaper than previous plans.
The Government's expected to announce the future of Interislander’s fleet this week, a year after cancelling the previous government's project, citing cost blowouts.
Luxon told du Plessis-Allan that despite confirming it wouldn't be $3 billion, he can't give any detail on the looming announcement.
He says like a number of initiatives under the last Government, the previous ferry project started at one billion but ballooned to $3.2 billion.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Chris Lux and Prime Minister Chris Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hello, Lo, how are you going you survive in the
Morning's okay?
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Mage, we've talked about what time do you get up
in the morning, About four thirty, About four thirty fifty
seven days week.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, there's a lot to do. There's a lot there's
a country to sort out and get turned around and
heading in the right direction. So there's a hell of
a lot of work to do. So that's what the
good people in New ze Little elected me to do,
is to go to work. So that's what I've got
to do.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, correctly, first thing in the morning. I don't think
people realize that hosting gets up at two thirty, which
is quite a thing.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
But anyway, and if you do the same thing, you
haven't get.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Up there can't you can't be you can't be filling
in for the big guy and then dropping the ball.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So absolutely, yeah, you're under some pressure.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Anyway, alarm for full thirty tomorrow and I'll think, oh, look,
I've been enough for two hours longer than the Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It's unusual.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Listen, what can you tell us about the fairy's announcement tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Can't tell you anything Unfortunately, you just have to wait
until the announcement comes. We said we'll do it before
the end of the year, but we need to get
a really good solution on the straight and we've worked
hard to make sure that we can. But spending three
point two billion dollars with further risk of overruns wasn't
the way forward, and so we need a proper solution
and that's what the team's been working on through the
most of the year.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Can you tell us it's tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I can't even tell you when it will be hither.
All I can say is I'm delivering on our commitment,
which is will make an announcement before the end of
the year, and unfortunately you just have to wait till then.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
How annoyed do you yesterday in the post cabinet press conference,
where all the details were already out and a reporter
was quoting them back to.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You, Well, I don't talk about what happens in cabinet,
And I know there's a lot of questions that were
coming my way on that, but the answer is pretty straightforward.
You know, we don't talk about what's happening in cabinet.
We make sure that when we do.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Somebody is talking about what's happening in cabinet though, aren't
they because you know it's two medium sized fairies, not
rail enabled and might cost about nine hundred million bucks.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, I just I just wait until the announcement comes.
So not long ago, are we?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Can? You just tell me this though? The total package, right,
the three billion dollars, whatever you guys do now is
not going to exceed that, is it correct? Okay, well,
at least there's something there.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I mean, the problem the problem here there was the
last lot was that you know, you had a project
that I think started off at under a billion, ended
up blowing out like we've seen with Dunedin Hospital, like
we've seen with everything else, up to three point two billion.
And actually one fifth of it was around the boats,
and then the four fists of it was actually the
infrastructure at the ports required to support those boats. And
so you know that's where it was getting out of hand.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
But you know what I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And there was no there was no sign that actually
it wouldn't even get worse from there. I'm worried called
to make the decision.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
I'm worrying about. What you're going to do, is you're
going to save a whole bunch of money on the
port side infrastructure, but then you're going to end up
blowing huge amounts of money on the fairies. And we
could have had these two massive fairies for five hundred
million or thereabouts, and now we're going to end up
buying smaller fairies for more, do you know what I mean?
Like the fairies.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But that was the problem, right, I mean, the fairies
that were selected at that time required huge amounts of
different port infrastructure in both Wellington and Picton and that's
where the blowout and costs started to happen. So so
you've got to get the whole system right. And frankly, yeah,
I mean, as we talked about at the time, you know,
you just can't have a blowout like that. It's just
(03:08):
just not acceptable and no and no end in sight
as to where it was going next. So look, we've
done the right thing, I mean, And and you'll give
me a hard time and say a lot. You've got
to be tough on managing the economy, and we are.
And so yep, we're not going to spend three billion
dollars building indeed in hospital spend two. Yes, we're going
to get a right sized option for the cockstraight. But
we need to because every money that we just let
overspend there is money that we can't spend doing more schools, hospitals, roads,
(03:30):
somewhere else in.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
We'll chat about it again next week once once we
get the announcement tomorrow. Probably Listener, you guys, despite all
the pressure you're getting on this boot camp trial, you
guys going to push your head with this. You're going
to make the boot camps happen.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Look, I think the arguments ridiculous that I've heard in
the last twenty four hours, which is that, look, we've
got ten of our toughest, serious, most persistent young offenders.
They are really complex kids, come from challenge backgrounds, but
they are the hardest and the toughest of the toughest
that we've got. So what we've said is lot, we're
going to have these military style academies. I've been in them,
I've seen them. I've seen huge amounts. I was really impressed.
(04:03):
I spent four hours there with the ten kids. It
was incredible. They've got mentors, they got support, they've got
people having to get driver's licenses, they've got everything, you know,
every opportunity to make a choice to live a better life,
and that's what we're presenting with them while we're also
keeping the public safe. And so you know, we've got
two things. One get the public safe. Two make an intervention,
because you know where those lives are going. You know,
(04:24):
they're just going to go into tougher, harder serious crime,
causing more pain and suffering across the community. So we'll
give them a shot. It's up to them to make
to do something with it. But you know, you know
a number of those kids have actually gone on to
actually find jobs or taken on education, and that's a major,
major thing. So I appreciate there will still be there
will be still those that will reoffend, and that's a
choice that they make. But you know, everyone gets to
(04:46):
live a life of free will and choice. And at
the end of the day, all we've done is give
them an intervention that actually they haven't had from my
mum and dad, or from their family, or from their community.
And so the alternative of not doing it is sorry, do.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You need to tweak the intervention? Do you need to
make the stay in the boot camp a little bit longer?
Or increase the security that they have when they're back
in the community or something to avoid them doing what
they've just done.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, well we'll look into that. I mean, yeah, because
I think you're right. What we've set up as a
pilot right, so there was a three month residential piece,
a nine month community based piece. They actually do have
dedicated people with them through the community phase as well.
But there may well be as we now bring in
this young serious offender legislation and ability to work with
those younger people for longer in residences if we didn't
(05:31):
feel they were ready to return to the community. But
in the pilot construct, that wasn't something that we could do.
Under the new legislation, we possibly could play with that
if we feel it's appropriate. But all I just say
to you is, look, I just think it's a pretty
defeatist and negative mindset to say, look, we should try
to do something different, shouldn't we to keep the public
safe and to change the way these lives could go.
(05:51):
Because even if one of those ten actually ends up
changing their life and they don't go down a pathway
of gang life and violence and jail time time and
welfare dependency and all of that stuff and all the
cost associated with that, let alone all the harm. Isn't
that what we're trying to do. It's called social investment
and it's hard and it's hard stuff, but you have
to stick with it. But the answer not to do
(06:11):
it isn't the right up.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Have you seen the Curier polling out today on the
support for the Treaty Principles bill.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I haven't to be honest, as you know, I don't
too focused on poles because you.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Need to get across this cross. You need to get
across this because of the position that you're taking on it.
So National Party voters do not want to leave things
as though way they are the fifty nine percent, there's
a vast majority of your own voters want Parliament, all
the people to decide what happens with the Treaty Principles.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, what I'd say to you is when I took
to National Party voters and the numbers that I see,
what matters much more than the treaty issues, frankly, is
actually fixing the economy infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm not arguing about that, and I would agree with you.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
On saliency of issue. Saliency of issue for National Party
voters and people and supporters, those things matter much more
than the treaty, there'll be arranging views within the party
on it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
This is one of these issues. If you ask me
what's important to me, I can tell you all the
things that are important to me. My child's education, health
care for myself, blah blah blah, all of those things
in the economy. But you put the treaty principles issue
in front of people, they have an opinion. They expect
you to have an opinion, and you're sticking with the status.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well I do. Don't you ask me what my opinion is.
My opinion is very simply that treaty issues are really complex.
We've grappled with them for one hundred and eighty four years.
We believe in equal rights. We also have obligations under
the treaty. We've worked that through. It's been difficult, but
it has actually been positive for New Zeland. I believe
over one hundred and eighty four years. I think you've
got to sheet a lot of what we're saying around
(07:35):
division and frustration back and hipkins who didn't take people
with them health authority. Enough with my argument, but you're.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Not doing anything and you vote able to do No.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
No, we are doing something. So what we're saying is look,
there's immense frustration. But the answer isn't simply with the
stroke of a pen to do a very simplistic principle spell.
The answer is to do what we are doing, which
is take a case by case, issue by issue. We've
unwound co governance on three Waters, disbanded the Maori Health Authority.
We have been clear about public services delivered on the
basi of need. We've put Maori wards back to local
(08:06):
communities as we said we would. We've gone through the
Maca Parliament to get back to the intention of what
was intended in twenty eleven. We're looking at treaty principal
references to make sure that's specific and relevant in legislation.
So we've got clarity uncertainty. So that's the practical stuff
that you need to do, and you do that on
a case by case, issue by issue basis. But to
think that you can just through the stroke of a
pen to a pretty simplistic treaty principle spell and override
(08:28):
one hundred and eighty four years of treaty discussion and debate.
The treaty has made us better as a country. As difficult,
we haven't always agreed, but everybody stays committed. And I
just say to you, go look at the history of
First Nations people all around the world, and I'm really
proud of actually what's happened over that period. As difficult
as it may be, but we have a different way
of looking at it, which is issue by issue, case
(08:49):
by case, doing the practical and realistic things.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
It's got to ask you something or I'm getting get
in trouble about talking about you behind your back. Do
you think your baldness is a superpower?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Absolutely? I think bald is beautiful and I think you
know that deep down because you married a beautiful bald
man as well. And I am doing this job in
part to advocate for the baldmen of New Zealand. You
talk about positive affirmative action. That's what it is. It's
like the baldman. I want all the bald Meant News
to know they are deeply loved, you know, by their
prime minister.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You know you can you can. That is it. That
is it. That is a section of the voters you
can go for hard. Hey, Chris, thank you very much
to to you next week.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Look after yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Chris Luxen, Prime Minister for more from the Mic Asking Breakfast.
Listen live to news talks it'd be from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Chris Lux and Prime Minister Chris Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hello, Lo, how are you going you survive in the
Morning's okay?
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Mage, we've talked about what time do you get up
in the morning, About four thirty, About four thirty fifty
seven days week.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, there's a lot to do. There's a lot there's
a country to sort out and get turned around and
heading in the right direction. So there's a hell of
a lot of work to do. So that's what the
good people in New ze Little elected me to do,
is to go to work. So that's what I've got
to do.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, correctly, first thing in the morning. I don't think
people realize that hosting gets up at two thirty, which
is quite a thing.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
But anyway, and if you do the same thing, you
haven't get.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Up there can't you can't be you can't be filling
in for the big guy and then dropping the ball.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So absolutely, yeah, you're under some pressure.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Anyway, alarm for full thirty tomorrow and I'll think, oh, look,
I've been enough for two hours longer than the Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It's unusual.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Listen, what can you tell us about the fairy's announcement tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Can't tell you anything Unfortunately, you just have to wait
until the announcement comes. We said we'll do it before
the end of the year, but we need to get
a really good solution on the straight and we've worked
hard to make sure that we can. But spending three
point two billion dollars with further risk of overruns wasn't
the way forward, and so we need a proper solution
and that's what the team's been working on through the
most of the year.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Can you tell us it's tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I can't even tell you when it will be hither.
All I can say is I'm delivering on our commitment,
which is will make an announcement before the end of
the year, and unfortunately you just have to wait till then.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
How annoyed do you yesterday in the post cabinet press conference,
where all the details were already out and a reporter
was quoting them back to.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You, Well, I don't talk about what happens in cabinet,
And I know there's a lot of questions that were
coming my way on that, but the answer is pretty straightforward.
You know, we don't talk about what's happening in cabinet.
We make sure that when we do.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Somebody is talking about what's happening in cabinet though, aren't
they because you know it's two medium sized fairies, not
rail enabled and might cost about nine hundred million bucks.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, I just I just wait until the announcement comes.
So not long ago, are we?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Can? You just tell me this though? The total package, right,
the three billion dollars, whatever you guys do now is
not going to exceed that, is it correct? Okay, well,
at least there's something there.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I mean, the problem the problem here there was the
last lot was that you know, you had a project
that I think started off at under a billion, ended
up blowing out like we've seen with Dunedin Hospital, like
we've seen with everything else, up to three point two billion.
And actually one fifth of it was around the boats,
and then the four fists of it was actually the
infrastructure at the ports required to support those boats. And
so you know that's where it was getting out of hand.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
But you know what I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And there was no there was no sign that actually
it wouldn't even get worse from there. I'm worried called
to make the decision.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
I'm worrying about. What you're going to do, is you're
going to save a whole bunch of money on the
port side infrastructure, but then you're going to end up
blowing huge amounts of money on the fairies. And we
could have had these two massive fairies for five hundred
million or thereabouts, and now we're going to end up
buying smaller fairies for more, do you know what I mean?
Like the fairies.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But that was the problem, right, I mean, the fairies
that were selected at that time required huge amounts of
different port infrastructure in both Wellington and Picton and that's
where the blowout and costs started to happen. So so
you've got to get the whole system right. And frankly, yeah,
I mean, as we talked about at the time, you know,
you just can't have a blowout like that. It's just
(03:08):
just not acceptable and no and no end in sight
as to where it was going next. So look, we've
done the right thing, I mean, And and you'll give
me a hard time and say a lot. You've got
to be tough on managing the economy, and we are.
And so yep, we're not going to spend three billion
dollars building indeed in hospital spend two. Yes, we're going
to get a right sized option for the cockstraight. But
we need to because every money that we just let
overspend there is money that we can't spend doing more schools, hospitals, roads,
(03:30):
somewhere else in.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
We'll chat about it again next week once once we
get the announcement tomorrow. Probably Listener, you guys, despite all
the pressure you're getting on this boot camp trial, you
guys going to push your head with this. You're going
to make the boot camps happen.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Look, I think the arguments ridiculous that I've heard in
the last twenty four hours, which is that, look, we've
got ten of our toughest, serious, most persistent young offenders.
They are really complex kids, come from challenge backgrounds, but
they are the hardest and the toughest of the toughest
that we've got. So what we've said is lot, we're
going to have these military style academies. I've been in them,
I've seen them. I've seen huge amounts. I was really impressed.
(04:03):
I spent four hours there with the ten kids. It
was incredible. They've got mentors, they got support, they've got
people having to get driver's licenses, they've got everything, you know,
every opportunity to make a choice to live a better life,
and that's what we're presenting with them while we're also
keeping the public safe. And so you know, we've got
two things. One get the public safe. Two make an intervention,
because you know where those lives are going. You know,
(04:24):
they're just going to go into tougher, harder serious crime,
causing more pain and suffering across the community. So we'll
give them a shot. It's up to them to make
to do something with it. But you know, you know
a number of those kids have actually gone on to
actually find jobs or taken on education, and that's a major,
major thing. So I appreciate there will still be there
will be still those that will reoffend, and that's a
choice that they make. But you know, everyone gets to
(04:46):
live a life of free will and choice. And at
the end of the day, all we've done is give
them an intervention that actually they haven't had from my
mum and dad, or from their family, or from their community.
And so the alternative of not doing it is sorry, do.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You need to tweak the intervention? Do you need to
make the stay in the boot camp a little bit longer?
Or increase the security that they have when they're back
in the community or something to avoid them doing what
they've just done.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, well we'll look into that. I mean, yeah, because
I think you're right. What we've set up as a
pilot right, so there was a three month residential piece,
a nine month community based piece. They actually do have
dedicated people with them through the community phase as well.
But there may well be as we now bring in
this young serious offender legislation and ability to work with
those younger people for longer in residences if we didn't
(05:31):
feel they were ready to return to the community. But
in the pilot construct, that wasn't something that we could do.
Under the new legislation, we possibly could play with that
if we feel it's appropriate. But all I just say
to you is, look, I just think it's a pretty
defeatist and negative mindset to say, look, we should try
to do something different, shouldn't we to keep the public
safe and to change the way these lives could go.
(05:51):
Because even if one of those ten actually ends up
changing their life and they don't go down a pathway
of gang life and violence and jail time time and
welfare dependency and all of that stuff and all the
cost associated with that, let alone all the harm. Isn't
that what we're trying to do. It's called social investment
and it's hard and it's hard stuff, but you have
to stick with it. But the answer not to do
(06:11):
it isn't the right up.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Have you seen the Curier polling out today on the
support for the Treaty Principles bill.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I haven't to be honest, as you know, I don't
too focused on poles because you.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Need to get across this cross. You need to get
across this because of the position that you're taking on it.
So National Party voters do not want to leave things
as though way they are the fifty nine percent, there's
a vast majority of your own voters want Parliament, all
the people to decide what happens with the Treaty Principles.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, what I'd say to you is when I took
to National Party voters and the numbers that I see,
what matters much more than the treaty issues, frankly, is
actually fixing the economy infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm not arguing about that, and I would agree with you.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
On saliency of issue. Saliency of issue for National Party
voters and people and supporters, those things matter much more
than the treaty, there'll be arranging views within the party
on it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
This is one of these issues. If you ask me
what's important to me, I can tell you all the
things that are important to me. My child's education, health
care for myself, blah blah blah, all of those things
in the economy. But you put the treaty principles issue
in front of people, they have an opinion. They expect
you to have an opinion, and you're sticking with the status.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well I do. Don't you ask me what my opinion is.
My opinion is very simply that treaty issues are really complex.
We've grappled with them for one hundred and eighty four years.
We believe in equal rights. We also have obligations under
the treaty. We've worked that through. It's been difficult, but
it has actually been positive for New Zeland. I believe
over one hundred and eighty four years. I think you've
got to sheet a lot of what we're saying around
(07:35):
division and frustration back and hipkins who didn't take people
with them health authority. Enough with my argument, but you're.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Not doing anything and you vote able to do No.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
No, we are doing something. So what we're saying is look,
there's immense frustration. But the answer isn't simply with the
stroke of a pen to do a very simplistic principle spell.
The answer is to do what we are doing, which
is take a case by case, issue by issue. We've
unwound co governance on three Waters, disbanded the Maori Health Authority.
We have been clear about public services delivered on the
basi of need. We've put Maori wards back to local
(08:06):
communities as we said we would. We've gone through the
Maca Parliament to get back to the intention of what
was intended in twenty eleven. We're looking at treaty principal
references to make sure that's specific and relevant in legislation.
So we've got clarity uncertainty. So that's the practical stuff
that you need to do, and you do that on
a case by case, issue by issue basis. But to
think that you can just through the stroke of a
pen to a pretty simplistic treaty principle spell and override
(08:28):
one hundred and eighty four years of treaty discussion and debate.
The treaty has made us better as a country. As difficult,
we haven't always agreed, but everybody stays committed. And I
just say to you, go look at the history of
First Nations people all around the world, and I'm really
proud of actually what's happened over that period. As difficult
as it may be, but we have a different way
of looking at it, which is issue by issue, case
(08:49):
by case, doing the practical and realistic things.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
It's got to ask you something or I'm getting get
in trouble about talking about you behind your back. Do
you think your baldness is a superpower?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Absolutely? I think bald is beautiful and I think you
know that deep down because you married a beautiful bald
man as well. And I am doing this job in
part to advocate for the baldmen of New Zealand. You
talk about positive affirmative action. That's what it is. It's
like the baldman. I want all the bald Meant News
to know they are deeply loved, you know, by their
prime minister.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You know you can you can. That is it. That
is it. That is a section of the voters you
can go for hard. Hey, Chris, thank you very much
to to you next week.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Look after yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Chris Luxen, Prime Minister for more from the Mic Asking Breakfast.
Listen live to news talks it'd be from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!