January 20, 2025 • 10 mins
The Prime Minister says he wants Nicola Willis to drive economic growth across all ministries in her new role.
The Finance Minister has been given the Economic Growth portfolio, formerly known as Economic Development.
Willis will look over education, infrastructure, science and research, less regulation and stronger international connections within the role.
Christopher Luxon told Ryan Bridge she'll continue to manage the country's finances, and ensure the budget is working.
Meanwhile, incoming Health Minister Simeon Brown has been meeting with Health Commissioner Lester Levy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Prime Minister, Christopher Luxin is with us back for
twenty twenty five and has regular slot here on the
mic hosting breakfast Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good morning Ryan.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
How are you very well? Thank you, Happy new Year
and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's same to you.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
How are you surviving with the big big job at
the moment?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, I'm making away.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I make I make do man Hey, speaking of big jobs,
Nichola Willis has one What parameters have you set in
order for her to grow growth? Is everything on the
table for her?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Look, actually through the course of the back end of
last year and even even a bit earlier that there's
five things that we've got to do in our economic
growth plan. Obviously world class education. You know, we've got
to get quality infrastructure in place. We've got to get
have much more science, technology and innovation and R and D,
add value to products and services, get rid of red tape,
more competition, stronger international connections. So we've got the guts
(00:48):
of what we want to do and build out in
that economic plan. And what I really want is as
a minister to lead and to drive that agenda through
across all the ministries. And so Nikola will have two
parts the job. Continue to sort out our finances, make
sure that the budget is working, but then really get
into the exciting work of actually, how do we lay
down the big foundations that we ultimately know will lead
(01:11):
to New Zealand becoming a much richer place.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And when that happens, that's.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
How people get a better quality of life, that's how
we get better public services. So you know, the real
focus is to on this year is it's about Job
Number one is growth, growth, growth, and that's important.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
That's the visions, that's the vision, right, that's the goals.
So the question is how do we get there. We've
got billions tied up and underperforming crown assets in New
Zealand on the balance sheet. Why do we have them?
And will you sell them down? Can she start selling
them down?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Where we've committed not to progress any asset sales or
what's called asset recycling this term, But what I would
say is there a bigger you know, what we've really
got to do is attract investment to New Zealand. A
big part of that is what I've been doing when
we've been offshore overseas for examples in the UAE just
last week.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, but why won't we recycle assets? Why won't we
recycle assets? The crown has five hundred and seventy billion
dollars worth. I mean, why do we own stuff that's
underperforming that we could have the private sector doing well.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
As I said to you, we've made a commitment of
this term. That's not something that we're looking at next time.
A lot of things that we well, again made the
commitment for this term. But what we are looking at
is that when you go around the world and you
look at other advanced five million people countries on Earth,
and you ask the question, why are they fundamentally wealthier
than New Zealand why for thirty years have we not
been able, despite how hard everyone is working, not be
(02:29):
able to get ahead and to create a much.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Wealthier, richer place.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It gets back to some pretty basic things, and that's
what we've got to drive those microeconomic policies that actually,
you know, like for example, science, technology innovation. We spend
quite a bit of money on it, you know, enough
money on it. But the question is we come up
with great innovations, but we're not actually commercializing them and
then building out the big.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, we saw that employment for people, we saw that
this week with Abco. This is the e buying manufacturer
in total. Now have you read about that? So we're
on the hook for four hundred dollars and dollars the
taxpayers through the Callahan Innovation Fund. Company goes into receivership
and we left heindre. I mean we are we making
solid investments there.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well again, you know that'll be a question for the
Science and Technology Minister to have a review of. But
the bigger point is there will be moments when we
make an investment to facilitate or to catalyze an idea
to become a reality and the hope that it creates
a moightness that creates employment and opportunity. Some of that
will go right, some of that won't go right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Just to square this off, the asset sales thing, you're
not doing it this year this term, but next term
you will be open I mean, I mean selling off
Land Corp for example, that all of that stuff would
be on the table for next term.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, our commitment is that we're not going to do
asset sales with two years ago for the rest of
the term expires. But you know, the bigger issue is
about how do we get pools of capital, both domestic
pools of capital in New Zealand and international pools into
this country for investments so that we can grow the joint.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
We had them on yesterday and they said they want
accelerated One of the biggest things you could do right
now to increase investment, to increase productivity, to increase wages.
All things we will want is do the accelerated depreciation
on their buying their manufacturing technology.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Look, I understand the principle, which is to incentivize particularly
small medium enterprises to brace and invest in more technology
automation to make their business more efficient so they can
actually be more productive.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is actually all good stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Will you help them?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Again?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
We'll have more to say about what our plans are
as we go through the course of the year. Obviously
we've got a budget. That's the point where we'd be
looking at. You'll see very clearly those ideas come to life.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But so are you looking at are you looking at
that as part of the budget process.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Look, I'm not going to get into what we are
are not looking into f waight to the budget. But
the point is we are very open and we'll do
any everything to make sure we get the country growing
and we have it, you know, Ryan, if you just
zoom out, I mean for thirty years we've actually under
successive governments, we actually haven't been able to sold that
productivity problem. People work hard in New Zealand relative to
peers around the world. We suck at it, but we're
(05:06):
not adding enough value to the products and services that
we're created.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So hopefully getting come budgetaches and come come budget time
when you do the accelerated depreciation, and then businesses is
about to just zoom forward with that. Hey on, Just generally,
this is a point about the budget in relation to
the budget. The AMA said on the show yesterday that
you are prioritizing the surplus overgrowth. You know, you could
do stuff like this depreciation, but it would hurt your
bottom line and would push the surplus forecast out further.
(05:33):
You know, you look at Spain, They've got public dead
over one hundred percent, their GDP three and a half percent.
They're leading the world at the moment, leaving the EU
at the moment. Are you looking, I mean, are you
prioritizing one over the other unnecessarily?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
No, we've got the balance right, you know, we are not.
We haven't you know, we're not driving the country into
hard or sterea. That's just not the way forward. Equally,
carrying on the way that the previous administration was around
tax spin, borrow or that doesn't work either. And I
think you've seen US at S be very measured and
very balanced through the course of this first year, which
was let's get people tax relief, Let's get more efficiency
(06:06):
and stop the wasteful spending. Let's actually make sure we
lay down the conditions for growth, and we think about
if you think about infrastructure investment that we've got to do,
if we want to get that done, we're going to
have to pull that forward. That means that we're going
to have to have access to public private partnerships, use
of foreign capital, domestic capital to invest in getting our
roads built Quaker at our schools, belt, Quaker area, hospitals
(06:27):
built Quaker. There's a whole bunch of things we're going
to have to do differently in order to get that
infrastructure in place. When we get the infrastructure in place,
that's got massive economic, social, and arguably environmental benefits. So
you know, those are the sorts of there's a lot
in that agenda of we have to be so much
more focused on driving growth into New Zealand totally. We've
(06:47):
got to get out of recession, which we've been in
for the last three years, and actually get ourselves on
a pathway to steady growth. And we have to improve
what's called economic productivity. That's the core fundamental challenge and
has been for long.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So Sale, I want to get to Trump in just
a second. So this is a quick one for your
sale GP. Any appetite from the government from taxpayers to
fund any future events.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Again, we'll look into that again. You've got to get
a return for that. And frankly, with the state of
our books, the question is is that's a high bar
doing something.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It's a high bar, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And Wayne Brunt he wants a visitor levy a bed
tax to try and pay for it himself. Will you
let him do that?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Again?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I think what New Zealanders want is they want us
focused on making sure that we can they can get ahead.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And I just I'm sure that adding new taxes at
this point is the right way. Not a priority. We
will not a priority, all right?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Cool Trump and trade. Seymour wants an FTA with Trump.
I mean he's dreaming isn't he.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, well, I spoke to President Trump. He actually called me.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
We had had a good fifteen to twenty minute conversation
pretty soon after he was elected. And I think, you know,
we're going to make that relationship work really well. It's
really important for New Zealand. We haven't had an.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
FTA with US. With the US, Australia does.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
But what's been interested Ryan is our trade and both
in goods and services, has been growing tremendously. I think
I think I looked at our services data last year
and I think we're up sort of thirty percent growth
with the US. Our primary goods exports, you know, are
finding good ways to get into a very large market
and finding the profitable niches, you know, in a big
market of three hundred and sixteen million people. So and
(08:19):
when I was in DC and back in July, I
went and spent a lot of time with both Democrats
and Republicans on both sides of the House around foreign
relations and trade, and it was interesting to me. They're very,
very supportive and very very open to doing business with
New Zealand. And so I think it's about relationships. I
think we need a lot bigger, deeper broader relationships across
(08:40):
the US political system, and a lot of it's about awareness.
You've got to understand, you America's a big country. When
I lived there for eight years, you know, I have
to think I used to spend a billion US dollars
a year just advertising Dove soap to Americans.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, that's what it takes in a big.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Market like that to get a brand to cut through
with consumers. And so our new and exporters have been
doing a very very good job of targeting the consumers,
targeting the.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Ways and those products, and those exporters. Those exporters will
be sitting on tender hooks at the moment worried about
tariffs from Trump. What is the latest from our our
ambassador to the US, Rosemary Bank, What is the latest
advice you've had on one whether we'll get tariffs and
two whether we might get some exemption.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
We really need to just let that administration get its
feet under the desk and actually see what happens, because
there's nothing more than what we've seen around the campaign
talk that everyone's seen around the world. But irrespective, it's
a relative game, right, so we still have to find
a way to win and actually do business in America.
So what we do in the UAE, as we do
(09:43):
in India, as we need to in China and as
Outheast Data.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Would if it's a negotiating tactic, would you ever throw
up and negotiate something like us joining Orcust Pillar two
if it gave us a concession on trade.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
No, we will have a conversation about trade, around trade,
and then we'll talk about our own security and what
we think is right for the region and for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
From minutes to thank you very much for your time.
Christopher luxing with us here on the Mic Casting Breakfast.
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
The Prime Minister, Christopher Luxin is with us back for
twenty twenty five and has regular slot here on the
mic hosting breakfast Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good morning Ryan.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
How are you very well? Thank you, Happy new Year
and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's same to you.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
How are you surviving with the big big job at
the moment?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, I'm making away.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I make I make do man Hey, speaking of big jobs,
Nichola Willis has one What parameters have you set in
order for her to grow growth? Is everything on the
table for her?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Look, actually through the course of the back end of
last year and even even a bit earlier that there's
five things that we've got to do in our economic
growth plan. Obviously world class education. You know, we've got
to get quality infrastructure in place. We've got to get
have much more science, technology and innovation and R and D,
add value to products and services, get rid of red tape,
more competition, stronger international connections. So we've got the guts
(00:48):
of what we want to do and build out in
that economic plan. And what I really want is as
a minister to lead and to drive that agenda through
across all the ministries. And so Nikola will have two
parts the job. Continue to sort out our finances, make
sure that the budget is working, but then really get
into the exciting work of actually, how do we lay
down the big foundations that we ultimately know will lead
(01:11):
to New Zealand becoming a much richer place.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And when that happens, that's.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
How people get a better quality of life, that's how
we get better public services. So you know, the real
focus is to on this year is it's about Job
Number one is growth, growth, growth, and that's important.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
That's the visions, that's the vision, right, that's the goals.
So the question is how do we get there. We've
got billions tied up and underperforming crown assets in New
Zealand on the balance sheet. Why do we have them?
And will you sell them down? Can she start selling
them down?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Where we've committed not to progress any asset sales or
what's called asset recycling this term, But what I would
say is there a bigger you know, what we've really
got to do is attract investment to New Zealand. A
big part of that is what I've been doing when
we've been offshore overseas for examples in the UAE just
last week.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, but why won't we recycle assets? Why won't we
recycle assets? The crown has five hundred and seventy billion
dollars worth. I mean, why do we own stuff that's
underperforming that we could have the private sector doing well.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
As I said to you, we've made a commitment of
this term. That's not something that we're looking at next time.
A lot of things that we well, again made the
commitment for this term. But what we are looking at
is that when you go around the world and you
look at other advanced five million people countries on Earth,
and you ask the question, why are they fundamentally wealthier
than New Zealand why for thirty years have we not
been able, despite how hard everyone is working, not be
(02:29):
able to get ahead and to create a much.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Wealthier, richer place.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It gets back to some pretty basic things, and that's
what we've got to drive those microeconomic policies that actually,
you know, like for example, science, technology innovation. We spend
quite a bit of money on it, you know, enough
money on it. But the question is we come up
with great innovations, but we're not actually commercializing them and
then building out the big.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, we saw that employment for people, we saw that
this week with Abco. This is the e buying manufacturer
in total. Now have you read about that? So we're
on the hook for four hundred dollars and dollars the
taxpayers through the Callahan Innovation Fund. Company goes into receivership
and we left heindre. I mean we are we making
solid investments there.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well again, you know that'll be a question for the
Science and Technology Minister to have a review of. But
the bigger point is there will be moments when we
make an investment to facilitate or to catalyze an idea
to become a reality and the hope that it creates
a moightness that creates employment and opportunity. Some of that
will go right, some of that won't go right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Just to square this off, the asset sales thing, you're
not doing it this year this term, but next term
you will be open I mean, I mean selling off
Land Corp for example, that all of that stuff would
be on the table for next term.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, our commitment is that we're not going to do
asset sales with two years ago for the rest of
the term expires. But you know, the bigger issue is
about how do we get pools of capital, both domestic
pools of capital in New Zealand and international pools into
this country for investments so that we can grow the joint.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
We had them on yesterday and they said they want
accelerated One of the biggest things you could do right
now to increase investment, to increase productivity, to increase wages.
All things we will want is do the accelerated depreciation
on their buying their manufacturing technology.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Look, I understand the principle, which is to incentivize particularly
small medium enterprises to brace and invest in more technology
automation to make their business more efficient so they can
actually be more productive.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is actually all good stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Will you help them?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Again?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
We'll have more to say about what our plans are
as we go through the course of the year. Obviously
we've got a budget. That's the point where we'd be
looking at. You'll see very clearly those ideas come to life.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But so are you looking at are you looking at
that as part of the budget process.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Look, I'm not going to get into what we are
are not looking into f waight to the budget. But
the point is we are very open and we'll do
any everything to make sure we get the country growing
and we have it, you know, Ryan, if you just
zoom out, I mean for thirty years we've actually under
successive governments, we actually haven't been able to sold that
productivity problem. People work hard in New Zealand relative to
peers around the world. We suck at it, but we're
(05:06):
not adding enough value to the products and services that
we're created.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So hopefully getting come budgetaches and come come budget time
when you do the accelerated depreciation, and then businesses is
about to just zoom forward with that. Hey on, Just generally,
this is a point about the budget in relation to
the budget. The AMA said on the show yesterday that
you are prioritizing the surplus overgrowth. You know, you could
do stuff like this depreciation, but it would hurt your
bottom line and would push the surplus forecast out further.
(05:33):
You know, you look at Spain, They've got public dead
over one hundred percent, their GDP three and a half percent.
They're leading the world at the moment, leaving the EU
at the moment. Are you looking, I mean, are you
prioritizing one over the other unnecessarily?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
No, we've got the balance right, you know, we are not.
We haven't you know, we're not driving the country into
hard or sterea. That's just not the way forward. Equally,
carrying on the way that the previous administration was around
tax spin, borrow or that doesn't work either. And I
think you've seen US at S be very measured and
very balanced through the course of this first year, which
was let's get people tax relief, Let's get more efficiency
(06:06):
and stop the wasteful spending. Let's actually make sure we
lay down the conditions for growth, and we think about
if you think about infrastructure investment that we've got to do,
if we want to get that done, we're going to
have to pull that forward. That means that we're going
to have to have access to public private partnerships, use
of foreign capital, domestic capital to invest in getting our
roads built Quaker at our schools, belt, Quaker area, hospitals
(06:27):
built Quaker. There's a whole bunch of things we're going
to have to do differently in order to get that
infrastructure in place. When we get the infrastructure in place,
that's got massive economic, social, and arguably environmental benefits. So
you know, those are the sorts of there's a lot
in that agenda of we have to be so much
more focused on driving growth into New Zealand totally. We've
(06:47):
got to get out of recession, which we've been in
for the last three years, and actually get ourselves on
a pathway to steady growth. And we have to improve
what's called economic productivity. That's the core fundamental challenge and
has been for long.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So Sale, I want to get to Trump in just
a second. So this is a quick one for your
sale GP. Any appetite from the government from taxpayers to
fund any future events.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Again, we'll look into that again. You've got to get
a return for that. And frankly, with the state of
our books, the question is is that's a high bar
doing something.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It's a high bar, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And Wayne Brunt he wants a visitor levy a bed
tax to try and pay for it himself. Will you
let him do that?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Again?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I think what New Zealanders want is they want us
focused on making sure that we can they can get ahead.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And I just I'm sure that adding new taxes at
this point is the right way. Not a priority. We
will not a priority, all right?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Cool Trump and trade. Seymour wants an FTA with Trump.
I mean he's dreaming isn't he.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, well, I spoke to President Trump. He actually called me.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
We had had a good fifteen to twenty minute conversation
pretty soon after he was elected. And I think, you know,
we're going to make that relationship work really well. It's
really important for New Zealand. We haven't had an.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
FTA with US. With the US, Australia does.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
But what's been interested Ryan is our trade and both
in goods and services, has been growing tremendously. I think
I think I looked at our services data last year
and I think we're up sort of thirty percent growth
with the US. Our primary goods exports, you know, are
finding good ways to get into a very large market
and finding the profitable niches, you know, in a big
market of three hundred and sixteen million people. So and
(08:19):
when I was in DC and back in July, I
went and spent a lot of time with both Democrats
and Republicans on both sides of the House around foreign
relations and trade, and it was interesting to me. They're very,
very supportive and very very open to doing business with
New Zealand. And so I think it's about relationships. I
think we need a lot bigger, deeper broader relationships across
(08:40):
the US political system, and a lot of it's about awareness.
You've got to understand, you America's a big country. When
I lived there for eight years, you know, I have
to think I used to spend a billion US dollars
a year just advertising Dove soap to Americans.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, that's what it takes in a big.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Market like that to get a brand to cut through
with consumers. And so our new and exporters have been
doing a very very good job of targeting the consumers,
targeting the.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Ways and those products, and those exporters. Those exporters will
be sitting on tender hooks at the moment worried about
tariffs from Trump. What is the latest from our our
ambassador to the US, Rosemary Bank, What is the latest
advice you've had on one whether we'll get tariffs and
two whether we might get some exemption.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
We really need to just let that administration get its
feet under the desk and actually see what happens, because
there's nothing more than what we've seen around the campaign
talk that everyone's seen around the world. But irrespective, it's
a relative game, right, so we still have to find
a way to win and actually do business in America.
So what we do in the UAE, as we do
(09:43):
in India, as we need to in China and as
Outheast Data.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Would if it's a negotiating tactic, would you ever throw
up and negotiate something like us joining Orcust Pillar two
if it gave us a concession on trade.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
No, we will have a conversation about trade, around trade,
and then we'll talk about our own security and what
we think is right for the region and for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
From minutes to thank you very much for your time.
Christopher luxing with us here on the Mic Casting Breakfast.
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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