Erica Stanford: Education Minister on NCEA test concerns, cost of building new school buildings

The Education Minister says there's no argument for getting rid of some NCEA tests over fears some students will end up with no credits. 

RNZ reports principals from some of the country's poorest communities, want the Government to scrap new reading, writing, and maths tests. 

They say a number of Māori or Pacific students could end up leaving school without a qualification. 

Erica Stanford told Mike Hosking she is aware of every single student in that situation and is doing everything she can to turn it around. 

She says they've put in millions of dollars of targeted support to get them across the line. 

Stanford also says she’s cut through the bureaucracy to building school property after a ministerial inquiry found the old model was inefficient and unfit for purpose. 

The Education Minister says since then, there's been a 35% increase in the number of standard buildings delivered, and a 28% reduction in the average cost of each classroom. 

She told Hosking the results of the new model have been obvious. 

Stanford says at Wellington Girls they built four two-storey blocks with 14 classrooms in 12 weeks, for $50 thousand each. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the old education file. Lot's going on exams that
aren't being passed in principles, wanting extra credits so kids
don't give up and leave school. Dare I mention the
lunches and now news on property post the mess uncovered
last October, we have seen as followers, a thirty five
percent increase of the number of prefab classrooms being delivered.
Average classroom costs have also fallen from one point two
million dollars down to eight hundred and seventy thousand dollars,

(00:20):
and school maintenance is also getting a thirty four percent
funding increase. The person in chargeable this is the Education
Ministry of course, Erica Stanford, who was with us, very
good morning to you, Good morning Matte. The one point
two down to eight hundred and seventy was that easy?
Was there so much bespoke designing going on? You could
slice with alacrity?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
There was, you know, it didn't actually take a huge
amount of effort to really drive efficiencies through using these
offsite manufactured bills, and we went I've been to visit
a bunch of them. They do an amazing job. They're
walk them safe dry, I mean well into the girls
we built four two story blocks, fourteen classrooms, and twelve
weeks at a cost of five hundred and fifty thousand
dollars each. You know, when you put your shoulder to

(01:01):
the wheel, you know you get results.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Whose shoulder is at the wheel? Is it yours? We
sort of talked about this the other day. I mean,
how does this one point two million dollars bespoke stuff
go away? Do bureaucrats simply follow instructions? At no point
does anybody go this seems expensive?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, look, all I can say is that the Ministry
has been responding to the things that I've been asking
them to do. And when we did the report and
flushed it reading out and said, hey, we're going to
change our behavior. We're not going to overpromise and under
the lever, we're not going to have poor communication, and
we're going to drive efficient bees through using ombs and
repeatable designs when we can't. They did what I asked

(01:38):
and we're doing it. But I still got a long
way to go, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well that was my next question, because it's classic government announcement,
thirty four percent funding increase. Does that solve a problem
or is it just a thirty four percent funding increase.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
That was around the maintenance and that's the depreciation stuff
we're talking about, So that's the going into classrooms and
replacing mouldi walls and waves that are falling apart, and
that's really been neglected for the last six years. It's
really easy to defer that stuff and not put any
money in. So we've put think that's seven hundred million
dollars in last budget, which was well more than the

(02:10):
last six years combined, because we know that if you
don't want to have to keep building your classrooms, you
maintain the old ones. It's not a real no brainer.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
No indeed, But does it solve a problem or does
it just scratch the surface.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
It's gone a part of a way to solve a problem.
There's a big problem. We haven't maintained buildings properly for
a very long time, and we haven't been keeping up
with building enough classrooms because they've been we've been funneling
too much money into the spark stuff. So we are behind,
and that's why we're playing a massive catch up. But
I'm going to have some announcements over the next few
weeks that we're able to now do because of the
fact that we've been so efficient so we can build

(02:45):
all classroom.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
So that's two point four billion in the budget, et cetera.
So you won't be tapping into that. This is just
money saving that you spend in better places elsewhere. Absolutely, Okay,
the credits argument, while I've got you this business that
goes from should go from twenty to sixty and these
kids leaving school and we need to go soft, is
there an argument for that at all or not?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Oh, there's no argument. And the reason there is no
argument is because I know every single one of those kids,
every single one. I'd asked the ministry to go out
and work out who were the children last year who
sat year eleven the corequisites, the literacy and numerous the
exams and pass them to come back to year twelve,
and we are targeting every single one of them. We've
put on millions of dollars of professional learning and development

(03:27):
and release time to help teachers work with these students
to get them across the line. Because all we do
if we lower the stands and lower the bar, if
we push the problem somewhere else, and we know the
life outcomes for those children, the longer we keep them
at school and the more we do to get them
across the line with basic literacy and numeracy. And by
the way, these assessments are set at the end of intermediate.
This is not like trigonometry and calculus. This is life,

(03:49):
live your life stuff. We have to get them across
the line, and I'm not prepared to lower the bar
and we will continue to work hard with you.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Do we have an attitude problem within the teaching community
without getting to aggressive about it, is there a problem
there that they like to talk about giving up as
opposed to being determined not to.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Look. I don't. It's tough for them. And the reason
it's tough is I've been a lumped to assist. The
previous government put this literacy numercy assessment in place and
kind of went the high school was good luck to you.
They didn't do anything else. There's no new curriculum, there
was no new materials, there was no new assessment plan,
there was no professional learning development that they stopped math,
professional learning development, they deprioritized it. So all of the things,

(04:29):
the ingredients you need to get these kids up to standard,
they didn't do. And so you can feel for the
high schools who are going well, thanks very much. We
now have these children who are failing, and it's up
to us. We've got years of learning to make up for.
So I understand that they're feeling really under pressure, and
I'm trying to support them the best I can.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Is there a relationship? Because I took personal lumbridge having
come from what you would loosely call a poor background myself,
Can you correlate economic circumstances directly with desire to pass
an exam or not?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
No? It is Look, if you are from a poorer background,
your means certainly determine your destiny in this country. It
has done on trying to change that, and that you
know you don't have as many opportunities as well with
your kids. However, the real driver is that we haven't
been setting kids up to sit exams. You don't. Some

(05:25):
kids do not sit their first exam until they're in
year eleven or year twelve, and we expect them to pass.
There's no building of good habits and study habits and
how you sit an exam because we've been so illergic,
because we think that it's terrible for the mental health
sit a test for goodness sake, we're changing that. But
those kids from poorer background don't have parents who have
got the means or often the time to be able

(05:46):
to help them out to get ready. So that's why
you get this Matthew effect of the rich to getting richer,
in the poor getting poorer, and the education system right in.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
Very simple terms, do not like David seymol No, we
get all very well a media pile on them.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Ah, it is absolutely a media pile on We think
regularly to go over the issues, the whole demanding answers
with an absolute media beat up. They've decided. Unlike you know,
they like the sensationalize stuff and create stories where there
is really nothing but there you go.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Nice to talk to you appreciate it. Erica Stanford, the
Education Minister. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen
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