March 10, 2025 • 10 mins
Christopher Luxon is defending his work as Prime Minister.
The latest Taxpayers’ Union-Curia Poll suggests Chris Hipkins has leap-frogged Luxon as preferred PM.
Labour's also ahead on 34.1%, with National trailing on 33.6%.
The Prime Minister told Mike Hosking they're putting through legislation to address a range of issues.
He says they're working harder than any government to fix what he says was a "mess" left by the last government.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And Prime Minister Crystopher Luxen. Very good morning to you.
(00:02):
Good morning Mike. How are you today? Very well? Thank you.
Are we part of the Coalition of the Willing Well
we've actually I actually haven't had a Dreek chat with
Kirs Starmer, but.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We obviously are good dialogue with the UK and we're
monitoring the situation pretty closely and of course, as I've
said before, we're open to it, but that's obviously subject
to what is the shape of a final settlement. But
we're very open to it and we're participating in different
conversations that are going on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
There's a meeting in Paris tomorrow among military heads. Are
we represented or not?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, we are. We actually have our New Zealand Defense
Force Defense at Tasha in London, who's going to be
attending that meeting in person. And then Mike, we have
our chiefs of Defense down here in Wellington attending virtually.
So that is actually, as you know, to discuss post
conflict Ukraine, and we're one of the topics obviously, and
you know we we include as there you know, we
(00:51):
further talk about the Coalition of the Welling which has
been led by the UK. We're open to it, but
as I said, conflicts still ongoing. We need to see
the shape of the settlement.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Ask you about it. A couple of weeks ago, we
were in close working a decision on boots on the
ground or not.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
No, no, we need it's just all too premature and
too much speculation or you know, we'll go through these
meetings tomorrow and we'll see where it's at. We keep
monitoring it very closely, but you know, we really do
need to see the shape of a settlement. You know,
obviously our presence of Lenski's in Saudi Arabia today and
conversations with the US and Ukraine, which is important. You know,
(01:24):
they haven't happening, which is important because they've got to
work together to get that piece that we need to see.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay, not enough coverage was given to this Deloitte report,
seventy seven pages into the Health Board slash commissioner, and
it goes back to what I've been asking you a
number of times over the months, and that is do
you think the public service actively work against you? Well?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I don't think so, but it's just that I don't
think there's been a clear expectation on the public service
about what we want them to do. As I said
to you in recent weeks, you know, I expect them
to treat the public like a customer and the health system.
I expect them to be focused on patients first and
foremost come through that lens on every decision they make.
And as you saw on that report, what we had
was pretty woeful management of a complex healthcare system. And
(02:05):
what I'm frustrated with, and I've talked to you about
it before, is you know, we've put record amounts of
cash and we're actually doing a really good job of
actually growing the workforce and paying nurses more than they've
ever been paid, and yet we're not getting good outcomes.
And so that's why, you know, Samon Brown, I think
last week, you know, we started to talk about what
we call primary health care, which is how to get
faster access to a GPS you don't clog up eds.
(02:26):
But we also need the organization to be a high
performing organization.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's really here's your problem. So you got rid of
the board, or really got rid of the board and
put in a commissioner. Now Brown's put in a board
and steadup a commissioner. It doesn't really matter whether it's
commissioner a board. If you've gotten competence and competences and competence,
but when the set this is a quote from the report,
the center made requests and the districts ignored them. Now
that's not not knowing what's going on. That's sabotage.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I think it's in competence. I think the reality was
that was an absolutely botched merger in the sense of
you had twenty dhps that understood their local communities, as
imperfect as they may have been. There was advice not
to whack them all together into one big super model
called Health New Zealand the middle of a freaking pandemic.
They went and did it anyway. They didn't actually merge
(03:14):
the entities properly. They didn't atually set up a proper
organization with who's accountable for what. They chucked two and
a half thousand more managers than over the top. So
the bottom line is I look at it as to
be honest, Mike, as I've got the money in, I'm
getting the workforce growing, I've got clarity on what I
expect the patients to see at the end of the
day and to feel and to experience. But the issue
is the delivery of it sits in the organization. It's
(03:34):
an organizational challenge. And yes, we put a commissioner in
for governance because we wanted to expose and get real
clarity about what the hell was going on. We need
to revert that back to a board that was entirely
appropriate that he's there for a year to do that job.
We need to obviously to appoint a new CEO of
Health New Zealand, new CEO of Director General of Ministry
of Health as well, but we need to get the
organizational structures right. You know, when you've got a large
(03:56):
executive team that doesn't meet regularly, that doesn't seem to
know who does what to who, that is just mush
at the center, let alone by the time it gets
out through the organization and the fourteen layers of management,
it's a It's a real organizational challenge. And the money's there,
the workforce is growing, the clarity about what we want
to see from that system is clear, and it's now
about execution of that system.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay, Nikola Willis is trying to, I'm led to believe,
negotiate her way around these rules that the Central Bank
put in place for the retail banks as to how
much money they need to keep aside for a rainy day.
This is all's thing. If she can do that, does
that still leave the Reserve Bank independent?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah? It does. I mean I think she's you know,
she's quite entitled to and I'm encouraging, you know, of
her to do that, which is to say, look, banks
holding less capital if it actually altimately helps it grow
the economy, how does it do that? What? It should
lower interest rates and therefore that improves productivity and that
could add to growth if we get well and.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Grow about it. But I thought that was bank governor's job.
Well we can.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Nicholas got powers that she can actually get in some
direction over the reserve governor. Well, no, she's she's got
she's got some influence on that, and so she's taking
advice around what she can do around capital holdings. She
hasn't taken anything to Cabinet.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
There isn't.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Frankly, at this point, Micah timing on it because as
you know, we've also got this FEC Work and Finance
Expenditure Committee going into banking competition, and I think when
we actually make moves, we want to make the right
ones and think it all through. So that is certainly
one of the things in the frame, which is you know,
and why wouldn't we do it? I mean, like with you,
but but.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You do have to have the Reserve Bank as an
independent operator. If they say, well, as Adrian All said,
we want this X number of billion dollars set aside,
and the Finance Minister goes, well, no, sorry, my number
is different. That makes you look like Muldoon, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, I don't think so. I think you know, but
there are powers that Nicola and any Minister of Finance has,
and I think this is entirely appropriate. There was a
lot of debate at the time as whether it was
the right thing or not. And frankly, I'm interested in
growth and if this means there's no question interestrates, I
think going on, we're all glad All's gone.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
He was hopeless, But the point is he was independent
on that. The banks from in front of the Select
Committee again yesterday, is anything actually happening with that? They
said the same thing yesterday as they said the other day.
They're defending the corner and good luck to them, but
what are you doing about it?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, there's a number of things as we've talked about before.
I mean we've obviously, you know, taking advice on the
capital holdings. We've obviously taken advice also on getting capital
into Kiwi Bank so they can get more lending going
out to places. We've got further questioning going on bank
cheers and CEOs around you know, why they're defunding certain
sectors in our economy, which is not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
But if you listen to what Antonia Watson said yesterday,
she gave an explanation for that. I don't agree with it.
I think she's wrong, but you know she's going to
say that till she's blue in the face. Question is
what do you can all come forward?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They can all come forward, We'll digest what they all
say and we'll put together a package. But when we
make the interventions, we want to make sure that it's
quite comprehensive and thought through and there's a package of
interventions that actually makes sure.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And when are those passions of interventions coming well?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
As I said capital, she's taking advice on the ki
Bank piece, advice on the capital piece. The FEC thing
is still running its way through, particularly around rural banking
and around defunding and general questions around banking competition. That'll
come together in the next few months.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Okay, White Tankage tribunal, Richard Preble quit when you're going
to do something about that, Not Richard Prebble, but the tribunal.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, I mean what we've said for a long time,
and we've got work underway.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Students, there's a lot of work away. There's a lot
of pieces, the first lot of pieces moving a lot
of time. Gee, oh my god, estion time.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I would say to you, my friend, that there has
been a hell of a lot of action on health.
Is been a hell of a lot of action on
an infrastructure. Something is a hell of a lot of
action going on into you. That's just the last three weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Ok. Sorry in this case, when you try to do
something about the White Tangae tribunal. Y, so we're just
wigging them up. Well, no, we want to. Basically, I
just made a which side of the debate you're on.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Everyone says in a post treaty settlement world, you should
be thinking about what's their role going forward. That's a
legitimate question. It's a pretty big question because it's been
that you know, we've had it around since nineteen seventy five.
And so that's the work that Tama Potaker and others
are kicking off, and so that needs to be properly
thought through. We'll bring that to cabinet, we'll have a conversation,
(08:08):
we'll come out again. He's got work underway, already started
that work, and we'll have more to say about that.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Am I impatient or something? I just like, I just
I just think it's just no disrespect.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
But we're working harder than any other government. We're putting
through more legislation to get things changed and sorted than
we've ever done. We inherit a hell of a mess,
and you know, we're we're working freaking hard every single
day to make sure that we're cleaning up the mess,
but more importantly set in the country up for great success.
I think, you know, to bring one hundred investors here
that have got six trillion dollars for a government that's
(08:41):
you know, under successive government's never really been that you
encouraging of foreign capital would come.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
To the country. That's good, and that's good, it's all good.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Just get freeway to Athlands.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
You know, are you going to get do you go
to India with you? Will you sign something in India.
Will something tangible come out of India? Yeah, I'm sure
there will be, but we sure there will be. I mean,
you don't go too knowing this stuff. Something were going
to come out of us, you.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Will have to wait till we get to India. But
what I'm saying is you've got you can't give up
on India.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Like the last lot of you know, we've got.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's a big country, biggest in the world's third biggest economy,
massive geopolitical player now in a multipoler world, massive desper
here at home, so security, trade, you know, peopled links.
That's important. We've had to build back the relationships, frankly, Mike,
in the last fourteen months they were non existent, and
I think we've had really good engagements with trade and
foreign affairs and defense and prime ministers and presidents from India.
(09:31):
And you know, the fact that our promise to Moti
has invited us to India isn't something that's done lightly.
I'm the first promise to go in a long long time,
and it's important. This is the next stage of just
keeping them momentum up so we deepen up the relationship
and all the.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Time travel well see you in a couple. You're not
here next week. I take it you want to do
one from India. I'm in.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
If the time zones work, I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Of course they always work. I'm up twenty four to seven.
If you're up twenty percent, well let's do it next Tuesday.
Come on, time you worry? What do you do over there?
I'm twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I'll say, yeah, don't you worry?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
All right, good, We'll look forward to a next Tuesday.
Christopher Luxe from India. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,
listen live to news Talks at B from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
And Prime Minister Crystopher Luxen. Very good morning to you.
(00:02):
Good morning Mike. How are you today? Very well? Thank you.
Are we part of the Coalition of the Willing Well
we've actually I actually haven't had a Dreek chat with
Kirs Starmer, but.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We obviously are good dialogue with the UK and we're
monitoring the situation pretty closely and of course, as I've
said before, we're open to it, but that's obviously subject
to what is the shape of a final settlement. But
we're very open to it and we're participating in different
conversations that are going on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
There's a meeting in Paris tomorrow among military heads. Are
we represented or not?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, we are. We actually have our New Zealand Defense
Force Defense at Tasha in London, who's going to be
attending that meeting in person. And then Mike, we have
our chiefs of Defense down here in Wellington attending virtually.
So that is actually, as you know, to discuss post
conflict Ukraine, and we're one of the topics obviously, and
you know we we include as there you know, we
(00:51):
further talk about the Coalition of the Welling which has
been led by the UK. We're open to it, but
as I said, conflicts still ongoing. We need to see
the shape of the settlement.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Ask you about it. A couple of weeks ago, we
were in close working a decision on boots on the
ground or not.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
No, no, we need it's just all too premature and
too much speculation or you know, we'll go through these
meetings tomorrow and we'll see where it's at. We keep
monitoring it very closely, but you know, we really do
need to see the shape of a settlement. You know,
obviously our presence of Lenski's in Saudi Arabia today and
conversations with the US and Ukraine, which is important. You know,
(01:24):
they haven't happening, which is important because they've got to
work together to get that piece that we need to see.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay, not enough coverage was given to this Deloitte report,
seventy seven pages into the Health Board slash commissioner, and
it goes back to what I've been asking you a
number of times over the months, and that is do
you think the public service actively work against you? Well?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I don't think so, but it's just that I don't
think there's been a clear expectation on the public service
about what we want them to do. As I said
to you in recent weeks, you know, I expect them
to treat the public like a customer and the health system.
I expect them to be focused on patients first and
foremost come through that lens on every decision they make.
And as you saw on that report, what we had
was pretty woeful management of a complex healthcare system. And
(02:05):
what I'm frustrated with, and I've talked to you about
it before, is you know, we've put record amounts of
cash and we're actually doing a really good job of
actually growing the workforce and paying nurses more than they've
ever been paid, and yet we're not getting good outcomes.
And so that's why, you know, Samon Brown, I think
last week, you know, we started to talk about what
we call primary health care, which is how to get
faster access to a GPS you don't clog up eds.
(02:26):
But we also need the organization to be a high
performing organization.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's really here's your problem. So you got rid of
the board, or really got rid of the board and
put in a commissioner. Now Brown's put in a board
and steadup a commissioner. It doesn't really matter whether it's
commissioner a board. If you've gotten competence and competences and competence,
but when the set this is a quote from the report,
the center made requests and the districts ignored them. Now
that's not not knowing what's going on. That's sabotage.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I think it's in competence. I think the reality was
that was an absolutely botched merger in the sense of
you had twenty dhps that understood their local communities, as
imperfect as they may have been. There was advice not
to whack them all together into one big super model
called Health New Zealand the middle of a freaking pandemic.
They went and did it anyway. They didn't actually merge
(03:14):
the entities properly. They didn't atually set up a proper
organization with who's accountable for what. They chucked two and
a half thousand more managers than over the top. So
the bottom line is I look at it as to
be honest, Mike, as I've got the money in, I'm
getting the workforce growing, I've got clarity on what I
expect the patients to see at the end of the
day and to feel and to experience. But the issue
is the delivery of it sits in the organization. It's
(03:34):
an organizational challenge. And yes, we put a commissioner in
for governance because we wanted to expose and get real
clarity about what the hell was going on. We need
to revert that back to a board that was entirely
appropriate that he's there for a year to do that job.
We need to obviously to appoint a new CEO of
Health New Zealand, new CEO of Director General of Ministry
of Health as well, but we need to get the
organizational structures right. You know, when you've got a large
(03:56):
executive team that doesn't meet regularly, that doesn't seem to
know who does what to who, that is just mush
at the center, let alone by the time it gets
out through the organization and the fourteen layers of management,
it's a It's a real organizational challenge. And the money's there,
the workforce is growing, the clarity about what we want
to see from that system is clear, and it's now
about execution of that system.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay, Nikola Willis is trying to, I'm led to believe,
negotiate her way around these rules that the Central Bank
put in place for the retail banks as to how
much money they need to keep aside for a rainy day.
This is all's thing. If she can do that, does
that still leave the Reserve Bank independent?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah? It does. I mean I think she's you know,
she's quite entitled to and I'm encouraging, you know, of
her to do that, which is to say, look, banks
holding less capital if it actually altimately helps it grow
the economy, how does it do that? What? It should
lower interest rates and therefore that improves productivity and that
could add to growth if we get well and.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Grow about it. But I thought that was bank governor's job.
Well we can.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Nicholas got powers that she can actually get in some
direction over the reserve governor. Well, no, she's she's got
she's got some influence on that, and so she's taking
advice around what she can do around capital holdings. She
hasn't taken anything to Cabinet.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
There isn't.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Frankly, at this point, Micah timing on it because as
you know, we've also got this FEC Work and Finance
Expenditure Committee going into banking competition, and I think when
we actually make moves, we want to make the right
ones and think it all through. So that is certainly
one of the things in the frame, which is you know,
and why wouldn't we do it? I mean, like with you,
but but.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You do have to have the Reserve Bank as an
independent operator. If they say, well, as Adrian All said,
we want this X number of billion dollars set aside,
and the Finance Minister goes, well, no, sorry, my number
is different. That makes you look like Muldoon, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, I don't think so. I think you know, but
there are powers that Nicola and any Minister of Finance has,
and I think this is entirely appropriate. There was a
lot of debate at the time as whether it was
the right thing or not. And frankly, I'm interested in
growth and if this means there's no question interestrates, I
think going on, we're all glad All's gone.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
He was hopeless, But the point is he was independent
on that. The banks from in front of the Select
Committee again yesterday, is anything actually happening with that? They
said the same thing yesterday as they said the other day.
They're defending the corner and good luck to them, but
what are you doing about it?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, there's a number of things as we've talked about before.
I mean we've obviously, you know, taking advice on the
capital holdings. We've obviously taken advice also on getting capital
into Kiwi Bank so they can get more lending going
out to places. We've got further questioning going on bank
cheers and CEOs around you know, why they're defunding certain
sectors in our economy, which is not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
But if you listen to what Antonia Watson said yesterday,
she gave an explanation for that. I don't agree with it.
I think she's wrong, but you know she's going to
say that till she's blue in the face. Question is
what do you can all come forward?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They can all come forward, We'll digest what they all
say and we'll put together a package. But when we
make the interventions, we want to make sure that it's
quite comprehensive and thought through and there's a package of
interventions that actually makes sure.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And when are those passions of interventions coming well?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
As I said capital, she's taking advice on the ki
Bank piece, advice on the capital piece. The FEC thing
is still running its way through, particularly around rural banking
and around defunding and general questions around banking competition. That'll
come together in the next few months.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Okay, White Tankage tribunal, Richard Preble quit when you're going
to do something about that, Not Richard Prebble, but the tribunal.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, I mean what we've said for a long time,
and we've got work underway.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Students, there's a lot of work away. There's a lot
of pieces, the first lot of pieces moving a lot
of time. Gee, oh my god, estion time.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I would say to you, my friend, that there has
been a hell of a lot of action on health.
Is been a hell of a lot of action on
an infrastructure. Something is a hell of a lot of
action going on into you. That's just the last three weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Ok. Sorry in this case, when you try to do
something about the White Tangae tribunal. Y, so we're just
wigging them up. Well, no, we want to. Basically, I
just made a which side of the debate you're on.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Everyone says in a post treaty settlement world, you should
be thinking about what's their role going forward. That's a
legitimate question. It's a pretty big question because it's been
that you know, we've had it around since nineteen seventy five.
And so that's the work that Tama Potaker and others
are kicking off, and so that needs to be properly
thought through. We'll bring that to cabinet, we'll have a conversation,
(08:08):
we'll come out again. He's got work underway, already started
that work, and we'll have more to say about that.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Am I impatient or something? I just like, I just
I just think it's just no disrespect.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
But we're working harder than any other government. We're putting
through more legislation to get things changed and sorted than
we've ever done. We inherit a hell of a mess,
and you know, we're we're working freaking hard every single
day to make sure that we're cleaning up the mess,
but more importantly set in the country up for great success.
I think, you know, to bring one hundred investors here
that have got six trillion dollars for a government that's
(08:41):
you know, under successive government's never really been that you
encouraging of foreign capital would come.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
To the country. That's good, and that's good, it's all good.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Just get freeway to Athlands.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
You know, are you going to get do you go
to India with you? Will you sign something in India.
Will something tangible come out of India? Yeah, I'm sure
there will be, but we sure there will be. I mean,
you don't go too knowing this stuff. Something were going
to come out of us, you.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Will have to wait till we get to India. But
what I'm saying is you've got you can't give up
on India.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Like the last lot of you know, we've got.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's a big country, biggest in the world's third biggest economy,
massive geopolitical player now in a multipoler world, massive desper
here at home, so security, trade, you know, peopled links.
That's important. We've had to build back the relationships, frankly, Mike,
in the last fourteen months they were non existent, and
I think we've had really good engagements with trade and
foreign affairs and defense and prime ministers and presidents from India.
(09:31):
And you know, the fact that our promise to Moti
has invited us to India isn't something that's done lightly.
I'm the first promise to go in a long long time,
and it's important. This is the next stage of just
keeping them momentum up so we deepen up the relationship
and all the.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Time travel well see you in a couple. You're not
here next week. I take it you want to do
one from India. I'm in.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
If the time zones work, I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Of course they always work. I'm up twenty four to seven.
If you're up twenty percent, well let's do it next Tuesday.
Come on, time you worry? What do you do over there?
I'm twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I'll say, yeah, don't you worry?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
All right, good, We'll look forward to a next Tuesday.
Christopher Luxe from India. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,
listen live to news Talks at B from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.