The Government says all options are on the table as Nicola Willis issues a six-week consultation to ensure 'all options are exhausted.'
The announcement has been met with disappointment by Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says the six-week period is reasonable.
"Maybe other governments in the past haven't actually thought about things or been prepared to go as as deep as what we're proposing, but I think it's a good thing," he said.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's changed days. Prime Minster Chrystopher Luxein is with us.
Very good morning, Good morning, Mike, how are you very well? Indeed,
one of the reasons your office told us you wanted
to change days is so you could turn up more
often in the studio, and yet on day one, where
are you.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
No, that's the intention. So I do want to try
and get into the studio and do more of media
in Auckland and studio with you. What a great way
to start the week seeing your lovely smiling face.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yes, indeed I agree with that. Also, that was suggested
from your office that you wanted to take all my
good ideas directly to cabinet. Is that true.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the de facto leader of the opposition. No, No,
we don't need that. We've got a good cabinet process.
But I do actually thought that just I'm trying to
make its work schedule wise, I think it's great if
I can get in to see you a bit more orgically,
and trying to do it on a Monday is the
better way to go about it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Okay, is today fairy day?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Today is fairies Day? Yep. Winston will have more to
say about that this afternoon and talk about what our
plans are there. Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Have you seen what I mean clearly you have. Are
you pleased with what he's drawn up?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yes? Yes, I think he's got to a really good position.
So I don't want to preempt any of that, and
I know you'll try and get it out of me,
but the reality is I want him to be able
to announce that really cleanly and be able to give
and share what he's thinking about how to take it forward.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Does it solve our problem?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, it does, yes, And as I said, the original
proposal solved the problem, and we're very comfortable with where
we were at, and he's got to the end of
today to make sure that he can deliver something better
or deliver that proposal so.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
He could do in three months what Nikola Willis couldn't
do in a whole year.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, I mean, we got to a really good position.
We're very comfortable with the proposal that we announced at
the end of last year. But we also have a
window of time, as I said, because we don't need
the new Fairies for a while, and there's plenty of
time in the process for him to look at alternative
options and to really go deep and explore it even further,
so you know, let's see what he says later on two.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, you've just sort of given it away. So what
we don't have today is a defenditor answer to the
question there are more options to be explored with more time.
Is that what he's announcing. I thought he was announcing
two or three ships from company X for why number
of dollars arriving on w day.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, I'm really sorry, Mike, but you're just going to
have to wait until this afternoon when he comes out
and announces the plan.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
All right, Well, if that's the case and we're looking
for more time and more explora exploration, what's the more
disappointing announcement the fairy announcement still to come this afternoon,
or yesterday's supermarket announcement which achieved yet again nothing. No,
I disagree.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I think we're doing everything we can as a government
to make sure there is more competition in that supermarket sector,
to make sure that kiwis aren't paying too much, and
we should be exhausting all the options available to us.
And that's what Nicholas announced.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Why couldn't she pick up the phone and go what's
stopping you coming into the country instead of doing this
six week thing, why didn't she ring eldie and go hey,
why aren't you in the country and what can we
do well?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I imagine that will be part of the consultation for
that six week period. But to make sure that we
are doing we are exhausting all the options available to
us to see whether there's anything more we could be doing,
to encourage a third entrant, talk to a bunch of
players across the sector and make sure we've captured everybody
with their different views on it. I think six weeks
isn't unreasonable to actually say, right, we want a comprehensive
(03:13):
piece of work. Maybe other governments in the past haven't
actually thought about things or being prepared to go as
deep as what we're plot proposing, But I think it's
a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But when you say as deep as what you're proposing,
what is it you're proposing short of the broad idea
that somebody else comes into the country, you've spent a
whole year and a half on this and achieve literally nothing,
What is it you know, literally proposing that will actually
literally have a supermarket open in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Two things I want to make sure that we have
done everything we can to understand if there's anything more
we can get right in encouraging a third entrant into
the marketplace. That is not easy, I get it. But
the second thing is what are the structural options that
are available to us today in the current market to
see that we can improve competition as well. Those are
two really substantive pieces of work. They're important pieces of work.
(03:58):
We're not going to die wondering whether was more for
us to do to get Killy's a better deal at
the supermarket.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That's agent.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So why would this last year, Well, we had a
situation where the actions of the previous government they put
in place a commissioner Code of conduct some other stuff
that was reviewed at the end of last year and
found not to have worked or been cofficient. And that's
why we're going further now, right.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, But what I can't work out is you don't
need you six weeks you hit the phones and go
why aren't you here? Ring the warehouse, ring anybody, ring, costco, ring,
LD ring, just to wring them up and just go,
what's what's the problem. Let me let me bulk you out.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And that's what we'll be doing as part of that
formal six week process. So these plans contact. You don't
need a formal six week process. You don't need a
speech on a Sunday morning. What you need is a
phone call to a couple of people and go, what's
the problem. Then if there is a problem you can solve,
just get on and do it well, whether you're doing
individual phone calls or whether you do it in a
formalized process over a six week window. I don't think
that's too much to ask, and I think all those
(04:53):
major players will be talked to. And importantly, what this
is about is just making sure that we have done
everything we possibly can, and we've talked about it for years,
and we've got to make sure with these two actions
that actually we've got all the options that we've got.
We're up for anything and everything to improve competition.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
She gave herself away and talking about twenty four billion
dollar industry, which is more than tourism and derry put together,
she seem not to connect the dots that if this
market is so big, so valuable, someone would have actually
jumped in. Is it not possible that we are about
where we are because we're a tiny notion at the
bottom of the world and it's two big players plus
(05:29):
a bunch of small ones and that's our lot.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well, I think the point is it's a fair challenge
you make, which is that it's a profitable sector and
if actually, if it truly was competitive, you would have
actually had a big player come in. That's the other
way to look at it. And I think the key
thing for us is making sure the settings are as
competitive as they possibly can be, because clearly the market
isn't working to attract overseas entrance into it. And I
(05:52):
get it, that's a big, big you know, it's a
big investment for an overseas player or a local player
to step up into a national network of of supermarkets.
But if that's the point is, we want to make
sure that there's any any regulatory barriers, obstacles, anything that's
getting in the way, that's that's not letting that investment
come through. We want to remove.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
What about the argument that David Seymour makes, and I've
got some time for it. What message do you send
the world that you're a government who, upon looking at it,
might go tell you what, we think you make a
bit much money will just bust you open.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
No, this is actually about a market that actually isn't
as competitive as it can be. The subsequently, but according
to who, well, according to we've seen the Commerce Commission
come through, We've seen you know, there's been a number
of reviews in the past about all of this or
aspects of this sector. And so the bottom line is
where markets are failing or are not working. So you
think the market we've seen, well, we want to make
(06:47):
sure that we've done everything we can to remove any
impediments obstacles to getting more competition in the sector. Why
wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you exhaust every option
available to you? Why would you buy wonder?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
There was three yesterday? We will break you up? Now
what message does that see the rest of the world
in any business area, especially when you're looking for money,
that the day that Christoph Luxen wakes up one morning
and decides he doesn't like the industry anymore, will threaten
to break you up.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
No, there's been international investors that have been coming at
our infrastructure summit. You want to know that they're entering
a competitive market, that they actually got a really fair
deal and they've actually got an equal opportunity to be
able to compete strongly against a competitor locally, right, that's
completely reasonable. That's what they should be expecting. Here. We've
got some structural challenges that obviously we haven't been able
(07:35):
to get a third intrant in. Obviously we've got to
a duopoly where actually prices that quis are paying are
high and we should be exhausting everything we can. Now
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Look when challenges I can't short of the early on
in the piece, there was the land holding thing and
they grabbed some land and they held it and they
prevented other people getting into the market. I got that
that was reprehensible, but that's been solved. I can't see
any structural challenges to somebody with the checkbook to come
in if they wanted to and take ten percent of
the market. I don't know what that structural challenges and
(08:05):
I don't think you do either, do you.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, that's why we're doing the review in six weeks
to find out exactly if you're sitting in the perspective
of international entrance or even local entrants that want to
scale up to become national providers. We want to understand
from their point of view what they are experiencing and
what are the obstacles for stopping them from being able
to actually set up a network in that way. The
second thing is we do want to understand what structural
options we could possibly implement to make that market more
(08:29):
more competitive. And it may well mean you look at
vertical or horizontal integration issues and some more structural reform
around that. But always saying is look, this is a
market that actually needs to be more competitive, needs to
have more innovation in it, and keywis need to get
better prices.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Why did you buy planes you couldn't service for the
air force?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And what are you talking about? Which planes?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
The Poseidon planes, the P eights We can't service them.
We send them to Australia. Why would you buy planes
you can't service?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Oh, that's quite normal. There's often expertise on the ground
for engine maintenance and repairs an aircraft maintenance, that's quite normal.
You know in New Zealand will see aircraft off to
Singapore for example if it needs to have heavy maintenance.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Other that'd be good of getting the expertise to do that.
We'd have jobs on shore, we'd have the business on shore,
we'd look after our own planes.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Sure, but we've got four p eights and we've got
a fleet of them sitting in the Australian Air Force.
They're exactly the same as ours. We want to be
interoperable with Australia. We want to have as much, you know,
an ANZAC force essentially between the two countries, so many
you know, they sometimes use different parts. They use our
aircraft and sometimes for their operations we use theirs. This
is I think very pragmatic, very sensible sort of way
(09:43):
to go.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
All right, appreciate time, see you next month. They appreciate it,
Christoph Lux and the Prime Minister. For more from the
Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to News Talks. It'd be
from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
He's changed days. Prime Minster Chrystopher Luxein is with us.
Very good morning, Good morning, Mike, how are you very well? Indeed,
one of the reasons your office told us you wanted
to change days is so you could turn up more
often in the studio, and yet on day one, where
are you.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
No, that's the intention. So I do want to try
and get into the studio and do more of media
in Auckland and studio with you. What a great way
to start the week seeing your lovely smiling face.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yes, indeed I agree with that. Also, that was suggested
from your office that you wanted to take all my
good ideas directly to cabinet. Is that true.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
At the de facto leader of the opposition. No, No,
we don't need that. We've got a good cabinet process.
But I do actually thought that just I'm trying to
make its work schedule wise, I think it's great if
I can get in to see you a bit more orgically,
and trying to do it on a Monday is the
better way to go about it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Okay, is today fairy day?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Today is fairies Day? Yep. Winston will have more to
say about that this afternoon and talk about what our
plans are there. Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Have you seen what I mean clearly you have. Are
you pleased with what he's drawn up?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yes? Yes, I think he's got to a really good position.
So I don't want to preempt any of that, and
I know you'll try and get it out of me,
but the reality is I want him to be able
to announce that really cleanly and be able to give
and share what he's thinking about how to take it forward.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Does it solve our problem?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, it does, yes, And as I said, the original
proposal solved the problem, and we're very comfortable with where
we were at, and he's got to the end of
today to make sure that he can deliver something better
or deliver that proposal so.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
He could do in three months what Nikola Willis couldn't
do in a whole year.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, I mean, we got to a really good position.
We're very comfortable with the proposal that we announced at
the end of last year. But we also have a
window of time, as I said, because we don't need
the new Fairies for a while, and there's plenty of
time in the process for him to look at alternative
options and to really go deep and explore it even further,
so you know, let's see what he says later on two.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, you've just sort of given it away. So what
we don't have today is a defenditor answer to the
question there are more options to be explored with more time.
Is that what he's announcing. I thought he was announcing
two or three ships from company X for why number
of dollars arriving on w day.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, I'm really sorry, Mike, but you're just going to
have to wait until this afternoon when he comes out
and announces the plan.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
All right, Well, if that's the case and we're looking
for more time and more explora exploration, what's the more
disappointing announcement the fairy announcement still to come this afternoon,
or yesterday's supermarket announcement which achieved yet again nothing. No,
I disagree.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I think we're doing everything we can as a government
to make sure there is more competition in that supermarket sector,
to make sure that kiwis aren't paying too much, and
we should be exhausting all the options available to us.
And that's what Nicholas announced.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Why couldn't she pick up the phone and go what's
stopping you coming into the country instead of doing this
six week thing, why didn't she ring eldie and go hey,
why aren't you in the country and what can we
do well?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I imagine that will be part of the consultation for
that six week period. But to make sure that we
are doing we are exhausting all the options available to
us to see whether there's anything more we could be doing,
to encourage a third entrant, talk to a bunch of
players across the sector and make sure we've captured everybody
with their different views on it. I think six weeks
isn't unreasonable to actually say, right, we want a comprehensive
(03:13):
piece of work. Maybe other governments in the past haven't
actually thought about things or being prepared to go as
deep as what we're plot proposing, But I think it's
a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But when you say as deep as what you're proposing,
what is it you're proposing short of the broad idea
that somebody else comes into the country, you've spent a
whole year and a half on this and achieve literally nothing,
What is it you know, literally proposing that will actually
literally have a supermarket open in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Two things I want to make sure that we have
done everything we can to understand if there's anything more
we can get right in encouraging a third entrant into
the marketplace. That is not easy, I get it. But
the second thing is what are the structural options that
are available to us today in the current market to
see that we can improve competition as well. Those are
two really substantive pieces of work. They're important pieces of work.
(03:58):
We're not going to die wondering whether was more for
us to do to get Killy's a better deal at
the supermarket.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That's agent.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So why would this last year, Well, we had a
situation where the actions of the previous government they put
in place a commissioner Code of conduct some other stuff
that was reviewed at the end of last year and
found not to have worked or been cofficient. And that's
why we're going further now, right.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, But what I can't work out is you don't
need you six weeks you hit the phones and go
why aren't you here? Ring the warehouse, ring anybody, ring, costco, ring,
LD ring, just to wring them up and just go,
what's what's the problem. Let me let me bulk you out.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And that's what we'll be doing as part of that
formal six week process. So these plans contact. You don't
need a formal six week process. You don't need a
speech on a Sunday morning. What you need is a
phone call to a couple of people and go, what's
the problem. Then if there is a problem you can solve,
just get on and do it well, whether you're doing
individual phone calls or whether you do it in a
formalized process over a six week window. I don't think
that's too much to ask, and I think all those
(04:53):
major players will be talked to. And importantly, what this
is about is just making sure that we have done
everything we possibly can, and we've talked about it for years,
and we've got to make sure with these two actions
that actually we've got all the options that we've got.
We're up for anything and everything to improve competition.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
She gave herself away and talking about twenty four billion
dollar industry, which is more than tourism and derry put together,
she seem not to connect the dots that if this
market is so big, so valuable, someone would have actually
jumped in. Is it not possible that we are about
where we are because we're a tiny notion at the
bottom of the world and it's two big players plus
(05:29):
a bunch of small ones and that's our lot.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well, I think the point is it's a fair challenge
you make, which is that it's a profitable sector and
if actually, if it truly was competitive, you would have
actually had a big player come in. That's the other
way to look at it. And I think the key
thing for us is making sure the settings are as
competitive as they possibly can be, because clearly the market
isn't working to attract overseas entrance into it. And I
(05:52):
get it, that's a big, big you know, it's a
big investment for an overseas player or a local player
to step up into a national network of of supermarkets.
But if that's the point is, we want to make
sure that there's any any regulatory barriers, obstacles, anything that's
getting in the way, that's that's not letting that investment
come through. We want to remove.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
What about the argument that David Seymour makes, and I've
got some time for it. What message do you send
the world that you're a government who, upon looking at it,
might go tell you what, we think you make a
bit much money will just bust you open.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
No, this is actually about a market that actually isn't
as competitive as it can be. The subsequently, but according
to who, well, according to we've seen the Commerce Commission
come through, We've seen you know, there's been a number
of reviews in the past about all of this or
aspects of this sector. And so the bottom line is
where markets are failing or are not working. So you
think the market we've seen, well, we want to make
(06:47):
sure that we've done everything we can to remove any
impediments obstacles to getting more competition in the sector. Why
wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you exhaust every option
available to you? Why would you buy wonder?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
There was three yesterday? We will break you up? Now
what message does that see the rest of the world
in any business area, especially when you're looking for money,
that the day that Christoph Luxen wakes up one morning
and decides he doesn't like the industry anymore, will threaten
to break you up.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
No, there's been international investors that have been coming at
our infrastructure summit. You want to know that they're entering
a competitive market, that they actually got a really fair
deal and they've actually got an equal opportunity to be
able to compete strongly against a competitor locally, right, that's
completely reasonable. That's what they should be expecting. Here. We've
got some structural challenges that obviously we haven't been able
(07:35):
to get a third intrant in. Obviously we've got to
a duopoly where actually prices that quis are paying are
high and we should be exhausting everything we can. Now
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Look when challenges I can't short of the early on
in the piece, there was the land holding thing and
they grabbed some land and they held it and they
prevented other people getting into the market. I got that
that was reprehensible, but that's been solved. I can't see
any structural challenges to somebody with the checkbook to come
in if they wanted to and take ten percent of
the market. I don't know what that structural challenges and
(08:05):
I don't think you do either, do you.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, that's why we're doing the review in six weeks
to find out exactly if you're sitting in the perspective
of international entrance or even local entrants that want to
scale up to become national providers. We want to understand
from their point of view what they are experiencing and
what are the obstacles for stopping them from being able
to actually set up a network in that way. The
second thing is we do want to understand what structural
options we could possibly implement to make that market more
(08:29):
more competitive. And it may well mean you look at
vertical or horizontal integration issues and some more structural reform
around that. But always saying is look, this is a
market that actually needs to be more competitive, needs to
have more innovation in it, and keywis need to get
better prices.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Why did you buy planes you couldn't service for the
air force?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And what are you talking about? Which planes?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
The Poseidon planes, the P eights We can't service them.
We send them to Australia. Why would you buy planes
you can't service?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Oh, that's quite normal. There's often expertise on the ground
for engine maintenance and repairs an aircraft maintenance, that's quite normal.
You know in New Zealand will see aircraft off to
Singapore for example if it needs to have heavy maintenance.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Other that'd be good of getting the expertise to do that.
We'd have jobs on shore, we'd have the business on shore,
we'd look after our own planes.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Sure, but we've got four p eights and we've got
a fleet of them sitting in the Australian Air Force.
They're exactly the same as ours. We want to be
interoperable with Australia. We want to have as much, you know,
an ANZAC force essentially between the two countries, so many
you know, they sometimes use different parts. They use our
aircraft and sometimes for their operations we use theirs. This
is I think very pragmatic, very sensible sort of way
(09:43):
to go.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
All right, appreciate time, see you next month. They appreciate it,
Christoph Lux and the Prime Minister. For more from the
Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to News Talks. It'd be
from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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