Sir Ron Young: Retired Chair of the Parole Board on why short sentences are doing more harm than good

Recently retired Chair of the Parole Board, Sir Ron Young, is saying short sentences may be doing more harm than good. 

"We can't do anything about the crime that someone's committed who's already in prison," he said. "We can try and do something about the crimes that they could commit by reducing reoffending, and that's putting huge effort into rehabilitation." 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Interesting insight into our prison sentencing or sentences this morning
with a claim that these short sentences might be doing
more harm than good. Comes to us from the recently
retired chair of the Parole Boards, Ron Young, who is
with us. A very good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Good morning Mike.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Just a couple of myths versus realities. Do the gangs
run the place? And do they recruit?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
They recruit. They don't run the place completely, but they
do run some of the units of the prisons. They recruit.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Right, the ability to reform, If you want to make
yourself a better person, can you?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
You can? Sometimes it's delayed and unattractively delayed, but you
can make yourself a better person.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
How much of this is about basic resource? If everyone
who wanted to put their hand up and say I
want to reform myself could get access to that, it
would be a better place.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, quite a lot of it's about resources and huge
todays and getting appropriate rehabilitation and reintegration. And of course
that means a lot of people sitting there cost of
the tax bayer without being able to advance. So in
one sense, the economics make no sense at all.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
So in that I assume that people who've got the
purse rings understand that. Is it deliberate on the government's
part to under resource or we simply don't have money
and that's just life.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I don't know the answer to that. Of course, it's
a matter for the government, but it's certainly been the
situation in prisons for a long time now. So of course,
you know, money for prisons isn't the most popular political slogan.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
No, exactly, And that's why I asked the question. I mean,
how much of what we do these days and you
sit on a parole board knowing that the public really
just want a lot of people in a lot of
jails for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, we understand that, and we understand the sort of
instinct punished. What we're trying to do, though, is the
crime they've committed has already been committed. What we're trying
to do is I'm sure they don't commit any further crime.
So we're focused on public safety and that's the most
important thing, and that's what drives what we do.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Has the recidivism rate changed dramatically at all over the.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Years, it's gone up and down at that, but it's
hard to generalize. It depends very much on the kind
of offending and the kind of rehabilitation is provided. If
the rehabilitation is good, well researched, and well known, then
it can reduce offending quite significantly. And the sophistication of

(02:26):
those programs has developed significantly over the years.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Your argument would be, if we had the resource and
we put the people into the programs, it would be
on the right track and recidivism or the rate would
drop exactly. Okay. Is that a hard sell to a skeptical.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Polic It is, And I understand that people want longer
sentences because they feel they'll be safer, but actually the
opposite is true, they won't be safer. The key we
can't do anything about the crime that someone's committed who's
already in prison, But as I said, we can try
and do something about the crimes that they could commit
by reducing reoffending. And that's putting huge effort into rehabilitation.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
The perception from the public that the judiciary a soft
and so are you guys on the parole board fair.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Or not not fair? I mean, New Zealand has a
really high rate of imprisonment. It's got a very high
rate of remand may be one of the highest in
the world. So and look at America, you know, the
highest rate of imprisonment and the highest longer sentences. It's
a good illustration of why long sentences don't make the

(03:37):
public safer.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Nice to talk to, you appreciate it very much, soar
on young outgoing parole board chair.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
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