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April 13, 2025 10 mins

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says he has been talking to Iwi leaders about how to better investment for the past 12 months. 

It comes as one of the country's wealthiest iwi, Waikato-Tainui makes the biggest investment since Treaty settlement 30 years ago. 

On Friday Waikato-Tainui announced a partnership with global investment firm Brookfield to develop an inland port in Waikato that services more than half of the country’s GDP.

The port, Ruakura Superhub, is connect to the country's two largest commercial ports, Auckland and Tauranga. 

The Prime Minister talks to Mike Hosking about Māori investment, the significant Sealord loss, reaction to Winston Peter's 'hysterical' claims, and more. 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Prime Minister is Wether's very good morning to you
can be with you now, Rukura. I watched you live
as is my want on a Friday afternoon, beaming out
next to Taku and co. You've got to stop making
announcements on a Friday because you're missing because this is
what you guys look for, isn't. It's about growth, investment, success,

(00:21):
billions of dollars what could be? And there you were,
you know, wasting your time on a Friday. So that beat.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Now I work fridays though no I know, but the
media types may not, but I am working.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
The rest of the country don't. But but but let
me ask you several questions about it. One, how big
do you think it will be? Two? Why is it
we don't hear more about that side of the Mari
economy and only the bad side of the Marie economy.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, both questions really good. I mean the first thing
is that's exactly what I've been talking to EMIE leaders
about now for probably the last year. You know, we
want to get on, get money to evolve, get them cracking,
get them investing exactly as they're doing there. That's a
great story. I mean, that's a billion dollars worth of
investment coming into the Waikato. That's you know, there's a
big inland port there they can able to expand out

(01:05):
that hub that they're building. That's forty five percent of
the population of New Zealand, about fifty percent of the
GDP tied up that's going through that place, connecting told
on A Port with Auckland Port and all the other
ancillary bits that are happening as a result. So you know,
that's why I invited EWE to the Infrastructure Summit because
they are good partners. They've built a lot of commercial
saviiness actually over the last thirty years post settlements, and

(01:26):
that's exactly what you want, is you want them actually
firing up and following the same going for growth plan
that we've got as a country happening with EWE as well.
So that is the opportunity for us to do that work.
But no pretty exciting stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Can you explain to us then? Why is it? You
look at Toku and Co and Naitahu their water resource
case and christ future side successful parts of the Marria economy.
Where's all the money gone? Why are there so many
mari and deprivation hunger and poverty and all the other issues.
Where where's it all gone?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, actually, that's the nature of the conversations that we've
been having, is that you know, they're in the same
position that we are in as a country. As you
need the economy fired up, you need a bigger economic
engine so that you can deal with the issues that
you've got socially better public services, health, education, all that stuff,
housing and so some of our we obviously are pretty
well resourced. Now they've grown their funds. I was even

(02:16):
that we was at Rokawa, I was meeting with them
last week in Ewee. They got fifty million dollar settlement.
Well they've turned that into two hundred and sixty million
dollars in a pretty short period of time and they
are actually investing that money back in. But that's my
conversation with them as well as right, well, what more
can we do to get our kids to school? What
are we doing to improve maths and reading across the base?
What are we doing around health and vaccination outcomes? And

(02:39):
those the same conversations we're having at a country level
that we need to be having together the government and EWE,
and there's good alignment on those conversations frankly behind the scenes.
So I'm pretty excited about that.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Okay, speaking which related the Sea Lord lost, what are
you going to do with them? Sorry the Sea Lord?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, I mean that'll be a decision for Shane Jones
to work through.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
All he claims the government. So it's Shane Jones Waller government.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, let's see, let's see. I'm going to let him.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
I mean, so you can do one of two things.
You're either going to write a check who you're going
to appeal? So which is I'm not sure. I'm not
brief on that. I'll let Shame deal with that first. Okay,
over what time frame? Is this pressing or is it
you're just going to let it ride? Or because it's
a significant loss, I don't understand. Well, you know, you
give allocation, they took you to court, you took it
away with no compensation. You've lost, so you either think

(03:24):
you've lost, you know, illegitimately, so you'll appeal, or you
owe somebody some money.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, in fairness, that decision will have to talk through
as a cabinet. Shame will lead us through those conversations.
We haven't had a chance to got us Mike to
talk that.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Through Okay, world leaders calls how many have we got anywhere?
And is Winston Peters right and saying you're a bit hysterical?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
I think actually, I don't know whether that's a real
media beat up that story, because actually, if you think
about what he's actually saying, we're saying the same thing,
which is that we've been pretty cool, calm and collected
and responding to this thing. I think commentators would admit
that my course to leaders are doing exactly the same thing.
Where are you at? How are you responding? It's important
everyone has cool heads. The second thing is that good

(04:05):
conversations because it's like what more can we and should
we be doing in a bilateral sense. And the third
thing is that I'm making sure that the blocks like
the EU and the CPTPP and ACN, what we don't
want them doing is tip for tat towers between each other.
You know, we want to make sure that they are
affirming the rules operating within dispute mechanisms that we've got
in place. We don't need the pressure going the other

(04:27):
way across the different blocks several and on the US,
I just say, look, we've got a positive constructive relationship
with the US and we'll continue to do so.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Okay, as far as the have you actually made any
pro groups though sure of bringing these people up, has
anything actually happened?

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, what is happening is you know, to think about
my conversations with Singapore, you know, the thought of right, well,
what more could Singapore and New Zealand be doing? We
have a work plan in place that the Prime Minister
and I have been promised to Wong and I've been
working through and we both made a commitment. Hey listen,
we should get our teams back together again post as
election and very quickly with the Australians work out what
more could the three countries actually be doing together? How

(05:01):
could we accelerate what we're doing. We want to move
to what's called a comprehensive strategic partnership. Those are the
sort of things that we can do more off See.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
One of the things that consumes about you ring the
EU is the free trade deal. We've got to crap deal.
It's nothing like the UK deal or the UAE deal.
So are you suddenly turning them into free traders when
they're not really free traders?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well, there's no I mean, I saw media report suggesting
that the EU it would join CPTPP. They've got twenty
seven countries inside there, with a range of views, that
would be an absolutely mother of a process to get
them to CPTPP. To be honest with you, but what
I'm trying to avoid is you've got CPTPP, which is
fifteen percent of the global economy. You've got the EU
Trading Block, which is another large percentage of the global economy.

(05:43):
What you don't want happening is countries within those two
blocks actually landing reciprocal tariffs on each other as well.
In terms of that's what I'm saying. We don't want
trade wars, we don't want tariffs. We don't think that's good.
And there are disputes between different blocks and between countries
within different blocks, and so you've got to hang on everybody,
keep keep calm, follow the rules. If you've got a dispute,

(06:04):
don't go off and level a tariff against another country
and another block or a block between a block. And
so that's the nature of that comment.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Just for the records. So Peters wasn't referring to you,
you would argue he was referring to general global reactions.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Because and That's what I'm saying. I don't sort of
understand why the media is beating this thing up.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Because because that's what the media does.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, but the bottom line is, you know, that's.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Why the trust levels at thirty two percent.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Well you can say that I wouldn't possibly comment like
about your industries are popularity, but I just say, you know,
we as a cabin had a good conversation about this
right from the get go. Stay calm, stay core about it,
Let's work our way through it very, very reasonably maturely.
We're doing that. Obviously. Winston's involved, I'm involved, Nicholas involved,
you know, Todd McClay, even Judas involved, and the five

(06:48):
of us, I think, you know, are all being pretty consistent, calm,
keep constructive and positive with the US advanced by lateral
relationships where we can. That's the work I've been doing
for the last sixteen months. This is the reason I've
been out in the world world trying to do this
sort of thing. That's why we've been to Vietnam and UAE,
and we're going to.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
The UK and we'll talk about the UK. I'll talk
about the UK in a moment. As far as the
Chinese is concerned. They reached out to Australia last week
and said let's join. Did they reach out to us
as well or not?

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Not that I'm aware of, But I'd just say, you know,
we have an independent foreign policy. I act in New
Zealand's national interests, of.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Course, but could they did suggest somebody suggested they could
be part of the CPTPP. Is that possible? Is it
more possible now than it was previously?

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, I don't think anything changes with the CPTPP in
the sense of that China has applied for membership of
the CPTPP, as have a number of other countries. We
have what are called the Auckland Principles. So you've actually
got to say, are you a good free trader? Have
you upheld laws? Do you have consensus from all the
other members to come into the agreement?

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well they fail on all of that, don't they.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well, but well let's see, but there'll be a number
of countries that we have to assess through that sort
of lens, because you actually want people who are genuinely
committed to free trade and are going to be good
traders in that system. So it's not to say that
China would or wouldn't be. But the point is there
is a process and you have to have that criteria otherwise, Yeah,
you sort.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Of undermine what we've done the nine billion. I don't
think I've asked you this since to God announced the
nine billion, the new money for defense.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
The incremental new money for the next four year.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
What magic are you pulling out of a hat in
the budget to find that you're quite skeptical about our
your books and they don't look good. I don't know
where you're nine billionaires.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
No, Look, it is within our fiscal track and all
will be revealed. What it means is that we understand
what we've committed around livering within our operating allowances, that
there's the next few budgets which we understand.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
How far are you going down your track? How far
is your tracked? Is it a fifteen twenty year track?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (08:42):
No?

Speaker 2 (08:42):
What I just say to you, as we are on
track to manage that investment and that commitment with the settings.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
In a way. You know you're going to have to
come here on the Monday after and you're going to
go you know, I know that's brilliant.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
You've actually to do all of that defense spending you've
got that, you're financial.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
God unless you and I hope you can and the
decisions a good one, But I just don't know where
the nine billion's coming from.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Re's assured we think we can manage it within our
fiscal settings that we've got. The second thing, as each
of those business cases come before the Cabinet to make
sure that we're getting good value from them, and we
have a formal two year of view because I, frankly,
if the economy gets better, I want to be able
to tip more money into defense over time. The cool
thing about that, Mike, there's actually some amazing New Zealand
companies doing some incredible defense.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
That was the news that came out of it for me.
I didn't realize.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
And there's actually a fledgling defense industry and it's amazing.
We've got companies here providing the Brits with kit and
equipment that they should be providing with us as well.
So it's a good economic thing as well.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Okay, Britain, Why what tangibly? I mean, it's always good
to go to Britain. Who doesn't like going there? But
what tangible is going to come out? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Really, Britain is really a couple of things. One is
to first and foremost see the King, which was due
to happen last year but it didn't obviously with his
health issues. Secondly, to spend time with Kiir Starmer. We'll
actually have a good lack of time together to go through.
And first of all we're going to go actually see
our troops in the south of England that are working
with the BRIT's training Ukrainian soldiers. Then we'll have our
formal ten Downing Street Bilateral, which is a chance to

(10:05):
talk about some of the economic stuff but also the
security stuff that's happening in the region but also around
the world, and how more we can collaborate the Brits.
You know, we're a long way away from each other,
but the good historical partners of ours and we want
to keep reinventing that one.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Well, the good news is I'm not taking your holiday,
so I'll be here next week so you can ring me. Am.
You said, did I dial in? You did? You were
in India so you told you. I said I would.
You can dial in from England next week. We'll see
you next week? Is it next week? You'll be there.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
I'll be out on the weekend and then in England
and then down to Gallipoli for one hundred and tenth anniversar,
which will be pretty special.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
All right, we'll talk next week. Appreciate it, nice to
see you. Thanks for more from the mic Asking Breakfast
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