Chris Bullen: Auckland University Public Health Professor on illicit tobacco sales and organised crime groups on mainstream resale platforms

Organised crime groups are using mainstream resale platforms like Facebook Marketplace for the sale of tobacco. 

Research shows up to 25 percent of all cigarettes in New Zealand are sourced illegally. 

Auckland University Public Health Professor Chris Bullen says he doesn't believe the data is that high, but rather sitting somewhere between five and 10 percent. 

He says selling online is an issue, however. 

"They're using these platforms now to advertise quite brazenly products, but they're tricky because they keep changing what they're calling them." 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Elicit tobacco sales booming business. Organized crime groups are using
things like Facebook marketplace to sell. We know this because
we've got new research this morning from the tobacco industry
that now claims as much as a quarter of all
cigarettes in this country are sourced illegally. Chris Bullen, Auckland University,
professor of public health, is with us on this Chris,
morning to you morning. Do you believe it?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
No? I don't, okay. I mean, I think there is
a problem with illegal tobacco, but I don't think it's
as great it's been claimed in the slatest report.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
So the report would be from tobacco. They want to
paint a worst picture to sort of stir the pop
do something about it, presumably, So you don't think that's real.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
No. In fact, another Tobacco Industry Commission report just in
twenty twenty three, so it was one in eight. So
who do you believe? Yeah, exactly. We think that's probably
somewhere between five and ten percent.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Okay, is that bad? Is it getting worse?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
There are going to be bursts of activity out there,
and customs I think has received additional funding to boost
fair capacity to detect at the border, othersit tobacco shipments.
So I think it's quite hard to know from one
year to the other whether it's getting better or worse.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
To ask they've got that research your view, Do we
actually have a handle on what it is or we're
just sort of making this up as we go along.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, we're not making it up, and I think we're
getting better and monitoring it. So we've now undertaken two
ways of monitoring for the Ministry of Health, and they
suggest looking back over ten years of information. At one
aspect has looked at a decade information it's just stable
or declining slightly. Other it's tricky to get a handle

(01:40):
on illegal activity, as you can imagine. The Facebook monitoring,
Facebook Marketplace violshing is interesting because whoever's selling these products,
whether it's organized crime or just individuals, they're using these
platforms now to advertise quite brazenly products. But they are
tricky because they keep changing what they're calling them. So
we've got a've got a person part time who's fluent

(02:03):
in two or three languages, who's monitoring that.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Does anyone else monitor It's funny you should say that
I'm just a tech dinosaur, But kids were selling cars,
you know, and they go. You never go to Facebook Marketplace.
It's just full of crocs. Is that true?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, there's obviously good people on Facebook Marketplace, but there
are criminal elements out there for sure, selling things that
are illegal to sell in New Zealand, or doing breaching,
breaching the current rules and trying to bend the rules.
But they're doing it in other ways. And you know,
Tom meenity markets and construction sites. I walk through parts

(02:36):
of New Market every morning on my journey to walk work,
and I see Chinese tobacco packets discarded in the gutters
that are non compliant with our rules.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
So there is My next question, is the tobacco that's
coming in here at tobacco or is it branded stuff
from offshore?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, as far as we can tell, most of it
comes in as branded products from offshore.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
And it's obviously worthwhile if you as part of this
being driven ages simply by criminal activity for the sake
of it. Or has it got to the point where
the people who will not give up smoking the tax
is too high and if they can get it cheaper
they will, Well.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I think both things. There is the supply demand issue,
So the biggest thing the government should do, I believe,
apart from making sure that borders are tight, is to
reduce the demand for smoking. Through all the tobacco control
activity that we knew should have been going on but
was repealed, and then trying to continue to drive it down.

(03:36):
It is coming down, and as demand drops, so demand
for illegal tobacco should drop.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Good stuff. Chris presci out very much, Professor Chris bourm
Auckland University. For more from The mic Asking Breakfast, listen
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