May 7, 2025 • 13 mins
Greg Foran knew his time with Air New Zealand was limited from the get go.
The outgoing CEO announced his resignation in March, planning to stay on until October.
He began at Air NZ in early 2020, replacing Christopher Luxon.
Foran told Mike Hosking he knew in the back of his mind he’d probably only do about five or six years with the company, as he has other things he’s keen to do.
He says it’s been one of the peak learning experiences he’s had, and he’s a far better leader today than he was before he took the job.
He also weighed in on the country's tourism numbers.
He's been in Rotorua this week for the national tourism industry summit, TRENZ.
Foran told Hosking overseas visitor arrivals last year were only 87% of pre-Covid levels in 2019.
He believes by this time next year, numbers will be back over 100% compared to pre-Covid.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The National Airline this week like it is most week.
As in the news Nichola Willis who met with him
I think yesterday or was supposed to meet with them yesterday.
Isn't against the market study Apparently. James Meagher, a new
Minister for the South Island, waxed lyrical last week about
the government helping them out on regional routes in terms
of pricing. Are their issues around planes and engines and
our folk law of course, And amidst all of this,
(00:20):
the CEO Greg Fan announced he is leaving and I
think pretty much he's talking to us for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Nice to see you, Yeah, good to see you, Marke.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Is it one of those weird things where you know
when you're leaving or did you arrive knowing when you
would leave? Because CEOs last five years, seven years, whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, Look, I had in the back of my mind
I'd probably do about five to six years with their
New Zealand there's other things that I'm keen to do.
And you know, when I took the job, I said
to the board to terrese by the way of credible chair,
one of the best I've worked with, I said to her,
probably get me for about five to six years, and
as we've gone through that period, I've kept her abreast
(01:01):
of my thinking and then you know, come March, I said,
right now, it's about the time I want to give
you a lengthy running period that suited her, suited the company.
So I'm here to the end of October.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Would you recommend the job to people? Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I would. It has been one of the peak learning experiences.
I have had my not easy and you know, I've
had my share of niggles that I've had to deal with.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And continue to.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, but I would say to you I am a
far better leader today than what I was before I
took the job. And you know I had a reasonable
job before I came into this one. But honestly, I
would be much better running walmart Us today from what
(01:52):
I have learned being at Air New Zealand than what
I was when I took that job eleven years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
You can't know what you would have to wade through
when you came here, can you.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I had no idea. I had not heard of COVID
when I got the job. It hadn't surfaced at that point.
I think we first heard about it about November twenty nineteen.
I got the job, I think probably about October, so
I had no idea, no idea that you know, we
(02:23):
would stop the first flight on the very first day
that I started in the company. It was ironic. I
was in Rodarua yesterday. I was talking to the team
at the airport. Some of the team were there on
the Saturday before we shut the country down, and we
were reminiscing that. I got a telephone call from Jasinder
(02:46):
on that Saturday giving me a heads up that she
was probably looking to close the borders. I think we
closed them on the Tuesday, but on that Saturday I
got a call. And here I was yesterday reminiscing with
the team and you know, just over five years ago
that was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Did you feel unlucky in the sense you could have gone,
say to fishing and Pipal Healthcare and got into masks
and respirators and COVID would have been fantastic. Airlines was
not the business to be in for COVID.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Look, I think there are certainly some days when I
get up and I'm having a shave before I come
to work, and I'm thinking about Rolls Royce and Pratt
and Whitney or capital raises or those sort of things.
But you have to put those at the back of
your mind and you have to play the hand that
you've got dealt. And I tend to be pretty optimistic
(03:34):
about things, balanced but optimistic. I play a long game.
I know that I have short term issues that I
have to deal with. I have to deal with what's
the on time performance today in cancelations and refunds and
those sort of things. But fundamentally, my job here was
to build on the legacy that I had inherited, and
(03:57):
that's what I've said about doing. You know, we want
to grow our domestic business, we want to enhance our
international business. We want to take our loyalty operation and
drive that and that plan still exists today despite the
niggles that I have to deal with. So I always
kept the long term in mind, knowing that I'll have
(04:18):
to deal with issues day to day. So that's how
it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
My criticism of you, not that it matters, is when
you announced your resignation came to me anyway, at a
time when the airline's still got a lot of issues.
You don't go see all that stuff that was problematic
it's now fixed. See you later. Yeah, you leave at
a time when there's more to do. Is that difficult
to justify personally or not? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Of course, I, from my position, know a little bit
more about what's coming down the pipeline and what's going
to be here by the end of October, So I
would say to you, I think the timing is actually
pretty good. And why do I say that? For sure,
there will be some issues that will still be ongoing
for the next year and a half, but let's talk
(05:05):
about the ones that are underway. We said that we
needed to get retrofits done. The first one is going
to fly in a week's time. We'll have seven completed
by the end of the year. We said we need
new aircraft. Those aircraft are now literally going on as
the production line. They will be on the production line
by October. We have what we call line fit numbers
(05:30):
from Boeing, so I can sit here with confidence and
say this time next year there's two new Boeing seven
eight sevens coming and likely another two by the end
of next year. So I've wrestled that one to the ground.
We've got a new hangar which is about to open
in October. We have replatformed just about every digital system
(05:55):
in the business, and there are a host of things
that have been done are being done so that when
I hand over at in October, for sure will still
be dealing with some Rolls Royce challenges. But I think
that's at the bottom and starting to incrementally prove we'll
be dealing with Pratt and Whitney at the bottom actually
(06:16):
is improving now, so I actually am am confident that
if you like, my run of the relay is about
right good.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
A couple of things just on tourism. Quickly you said
you're in Rotorua the big tourism things going on. One
of the announcements made by the government yesterday was part
of the one of the impediments to getting here visa
wise has been sorted out to a degree. I won't
bought people with the detail, but there seems to be
to me anyway certain things. Chinese and India a couple
of good markets where we could be doing more than
(06:47):
we are to get people here and make life VISI
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's coming back, is the way that I would put it.
So you know, we were slow out of the blocks.
China has been the market you know, it was our
biggest and if I spoke to you a few months ago,
we were running it sort of circa fifty two percent
of pre COVID. I think that number now, Mike is
back to about sixty seven percent. Getting rid of the
(07:14):
translation fee takes sort of circle one hundred hundred and
ten dollars off the price of easas these people are
price conscious, I think you'll see incremental improvement in total.
We're back to about eighty seven percent of pre COVID.
The US is over one hundred and so it's happening.
(07:36):
I thought there was more energy at trends than I
have seen previously. I think there's a spring in everyone's step,
and I think by this time next year, with a
bit of luck, will be back over one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And about time too.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, I agree with you. It's what is it, thirteen
forteen billion worth of income internationally. We need it, the
country needs it. I absolutely get that it needs to
be balanced. You know, Queenstown I think is running at
the moment about one hundred and fifteen percent of pre COVID.
So if you're talking to someone in Queenstown, they're probably
(08:12):
saying it's already too busy. I get it, so let's
be careful. Averages can be misleading, but in totality we
need tourism.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The market study that Nikola Willis talks of that just
the overarching in New Zealand or a bunch of bastards
and rip us off.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You say what I say. Fundamentally, what we've been saying
in the Commerce Commission have come out and said is
this is not a competition issue. It's structural. Now we've
had cost increases, just like everyone in New Zealand has
cost increases. And trust me, I have empathy for that.
My wife asked me to get some stuff from the
(08:51):
supermarket last Saturday afternoon when I was finishing work. I
remember prices from six years ago in Walmart. Boy, it's
ex offensive and I'm not having a shot at anyone.
It's just costs have gone up. Have for us to
what do we try and do with costs? We mitigate
them where we possibly can, and that's things like improving
productivity and coming up with new methods and systems. We
(09:14):
absorb some of them and you see that in our guidance,
which is actually has had to come down and where
we can't, we have to pass them on. What do
I mean by structural versus competition? You could put another
airline into New Zealand, and by the way, they could
come anytime they want. It's open skies. The prices will
come down, but no one will make any money, and
(09:36):
in one to two years an airline will leave. Probably
won't be in New Zealand because it's fifty one percent
owned by the government, but the new airline will probably leave.
If history tells us this, history tells us this, Why
is that the case? Because we're about one and a
half times the size of Arkansas. We're small and it
(09:58):
is what it is. We get the benefit of living
in a country with not so many people, but that
means you don't get the benefit of scale. Australia, twenty
seven million people, has but two airlines. Every time they
try and open a third, the third one fails. New
Zealand probably can only exist with one. Our job is
(10:20):
to be fair, fair to customers, fair to our staff,
fair to communities and fair to the shareholders. And I
think generally we thread that needle reasonably well. We're not
boosting up shareholder returns here at the expense of charging
high prices.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Only got a minute left of all the stuff you've
done for interesting that you're not retiring, So there's something
to do, something to do. You don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Don't know what that is, but open to all options
and within reason location as well.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Do you want to leave your number here and someone
rings in the What have you learned how to be
in New Zealand that's good, bad, valuable or not compared
with all the other stuff you've done.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I would say to you the thing that has struck
me the most, which I knew but has been enhanced,
is how important culture in businesses. And so I spend
a lot of time, and I will continue to spend time,
and I will do it in whatever I do next,
ensuring that the culture and the business is what you
(11:29):
want in order to achieve your plan and execute your results.
So I spend a lot of time with our people,
listening to them, listening to customers, ensuring that we represent
what we should do in terms of our purpose and
our values.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Is New Zealand a good place to do business?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It is? It can be difficult because of scale. We
like at times to try and do probably too many
things instead of saying here are the three or four
things that we're going to do incredibly well. But we
have the ability to move at speed, and size can
(12:12):
be an impediment and it can be an advantage. And
one of the things I try and do with their
New Zealand when I'm overseas and I'm meeting with the
big companies over there, and I'm not just talking Boeing
or air Bus, but you know, I was with open
Ai four weeks ago, Google Deep Mind. We're working on
things with them. Our cell position to them, Mike is
(12:34):
we're small, we can operate at speed. Give us an opportunity,
you can develop something with us, and then you can
go and sell it to the big guys and it works.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Good stuff. We'll get you before you finally, finally, little bit,
appreciate your time for Howls always, thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Make good to see you.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Greg.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Forum For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live
to news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The National Airline this week like it is most week.
As in the news Nichola Willis who met with him
I think yesterday or was supposed to meet with them yesterday.
Isn't against the market study Apparently. James Meagher, a new
Minister for the South Island, waxed lyrical last week about
the government helping them out on regional routes in terms
of pricing. Are their issues around planes and engines and
our folk law of course, And amidst all of this,
(00:20):
the CEO Greg Fan announced he is leaving and I
think pretty much he's talking to us for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Nice to see you, Yeah, good to see you, Marke.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Is it one of those weird things where you know
when you're leaving or did you arrive knowing when you
would leave? Because CEOs last five years, seven years, whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, Look, I had in the back of my mind
I'd probably do about five to six years with their
New Zealand there's other things that I'm keen to do.
And you know, when I took the job, I said
to the board to terrese by the way of credible chair,
one of the best I've worked with, I said to her,
probably get me for about five to six years, and
as we've gone through that period, I've kept her abreast
(01:01):
of my thinking and then you know, come March, I said,
right now, it's about the time I want to give
you a lengthy running period that suited her, suited the company.
So I'm here to the end of October.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Would you recommend the job to people? Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I would. It has been one of the peak learning experiences.
I have had my not easy and you know, I've
had my share of niggles that I've had to deal with.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And continue to.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, but I would say to you I am a
far better leader today than what I was before I
took the job. And you know I had a reasonable
job before I came into this one. But honestly, I
would be much better running walmart Us today from what
(01:52):
I have learned being at Air New Zealand than what
I was when I took that job eleven years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
You can't know what you would have to wade through
when you came here, can you.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I had no idea. I had not heard of COVID
when I got the job. It hadn't surfaced at that point.
I think we first heard about it about November twenty nineteen.
I got the job, I think probably about October, so
I had no idea, no idea that you know, we
(02:23):
would stop the first flight on the very first day
that I started in the company. It was ironic. I
was in Rodarua yesterday. I was talking to the team
at the airport. Some of the team were there on
the Saturday before we shut the country down, and we
were reminiscing that. I got a telephone call from Jasinder
(02:46):
on that Saturday giving me a heads up that she
was probably looking to close the borders. I think we
closed them on the Tuesday, but on that Saturday I
got a call. And here I was yesterday reminiscing with
the team and you know, just over five years ago
that was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Did you feel unlucky in the sense you could have gone,
say to fishing and Pipal Healthcare and got into masks
and respirators and COVID would have been fantastic. Airlines was
not the business to be in for COVID.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Look, I think there are certainly some days when I
get up and I'm having a shave before I come
to work, and I'm thinking about Rolls Royce and Pratt
and Whitney or capital raises or those sort of things.
But you have to put those at the back of
your mind and you have to play the hand that
you've got dealt. And I tend to be pretty optimistic
(03:34):
about things, balanced but optimistic. I play a long game.
I know that I have short term issues that I
have to deal with. I have to deal with what's
the on time performance today in cancelations and refunds and
those sort of things. But fundamentally, my job here was
to build on the legacy that I had inherited, and
(03:57):
that's what I've said about doing. You know, we want
to grow our domestic business, we want to enhance our
international business. We want to take our loyalty operation and
drive that and that plan still exists today despite the
niggles that I have to deal with. So I always
kept the long term in mind, knowing that I'll have
(04:18):
to deal with issues day to day. So that's how
it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
My criticism of you, not that it matters, is when
you announced your resignation came to me anyway, at a
time when the airline's still got a lot of issues.
You don't go see all that stuff that was problematic
it's now fixed. See you later. Yeah, you leave at
a time when there's more to do. Is that difficult
to justify personally or not? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Of course, I, from my position, know a little bit
more about what's coming down the pipeline and what's going
to be here by the end of October, So I
would say to you, I think the timing is actually
pretty good. And why do I say that? For sure,
there will be some issues that will still be ongoing
for the next year and a half, but let's talk
(05:05):
about the ones that are underway. We said that we
needed to get retrofits done. The first one is going
to fly in a week's time. We'll have seven completed
by the end of the year. We said we need
new aircraft. Those aircraft are now literally going on as
the production line. They will be on the production line
by October. We have what we call line fit numbers
(05:30):
from Boeing, so I can sit here with confidence and
say this time next year there's two new Boeing seven
eight sevens coming and likely another two by the end
of next year. So I've wrestled that one to the ground.
We've got a new hangar which is about to open
in October. We have replatformed just about every digital system
(05:55):
in the business, and there are a host of things
that have been done are being done so that when
I hand over at in October, for sure will still
be dealing with some Rolls Royce challenges. But I think
that's at the bottom and starting to incrementally prove we'll
be dealing with Pratt and Whitney at the bottom actually
(06:16):
is improving now, so I actually am am confident that
if you like, my run of the relay is about
right good.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
A couple of things just on tourism. Quickly you said
you're in Rotorua the big tourism things going on. One
of the announcements made by the government yesterday was part
of the one of the impediments to getting here visa
wise has been sorted out to a degree. I won't
bought people with the detail, but there seems to be
to me anyway certain things. Chinese and India a couple
of good markets where we could be doing more than
(06:47):
we are to get people here and make life VISI
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's coming back, is the way that I would put it.
So you know, we were slow out of the blocks.
China has been the market you know, it was our
biggest and if I spoke to you a few months ago,
we were running it sort of circa fifty two percent
of pre COVID. I think that number now, Mike is
back to about sixty seven percent. Getting rid of the
(07:14):
translation fee takes sort of circle one hundred hundred and
ten dollars off the price of easas these people are
price conscious, I think you'll see incremental improvement in total.
We're back to about eighty seven percent of pre COVID.
The US is over one hundred and so it's happening.
(07:36):
I thought there was more energy at trends than I
have seen previously. I think there's a spring in everyone's step,
and I think by this time next year, with a
bit of luck, will be back over one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And about time too.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, I agree with you. It's what is it, thirteen
forteen billion worth of income internationally. We need it, the
country needs it. I absolutely get that it needs to
be balanced. You know, Queenstown I think is running at
the moment about one hundred and fifteen percent of pre COVID.
So if you're talking to someone in Queenstown, they're probably
(08:12):
saying it's already too busy. I get it, so let's
be careful. Averages can be misleading, but in totality we
need tourism.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The market study that Nikola Willis talks of that just
the overarching in New Zealand or a bunch of bastards
and rip us off.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You say what I say. Fundamentally, what we've been saying
in the Commerce Commission have come out and said is
this is not a competition issue. It's structural. Now we've
had cost increases, just like everyone in New Zealand has
cost increases. And trust me, I have empathy for that.
My wife asked me to get some stuff from the
(08:51):
supermarket last Saturday afternoon when I was finishing work. I
remember prices from six years ago in Walmart. Boy, it's
ex offensive and I'm not having a shot at anyone.
It's just costs have gone up. Have for us to
what do we try and do with costs? We mitigate
them where we possibly can, and that's things like improving
productivity and coming up with new methods and systems. We
(09:14):
absorb some of them and you see that in our guidance,
which is actually has had to come down and where
we can't, we have to pass them on. What do
I mean by structural versus competition? You could put another
airline into New Zealand, and by the way, they could
come anytime they want. It's open skies. The prices will
come down, but no one will make any money, and
(09:36):
in one to two years an airline will leave. Probably
won't be in New Zealand because it's fifty one percent
owned by the government, but the new airline will probably leave.
If history tells us this, history tells us this, Why
is that the case? Because we're about one and a
half times the size of Arkansas. We're small and it
(09:58):
is what it is. We get the benefit of living
in a country with not so many people, but that
means you don't get the benefit of scale. Australia, twenty
seven million people, has but two airlines. Every time they
try and open a third, the third one fails. New
Zealand probably can only exist with one. Our job is
(10:20):
to be fair, fair to customers, fair to our staff,
fair to communities and fair to the shareholders. And I
think generally we thread that needle reasonably well. We're not
boosting up shareholder returns here at the expense of charging
high prices.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Only got a minute left of all the stuff you've
done for interesting that you're not retiring, So there's something
to do, something to do. You don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Don't know what that is, but open to all options
and within reason location as well.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Do you want to leave your number here and someone
rings in the What have you learned how to be
in New Zealand that's good, bad, valuable or not compared
with all the other stuff you've done.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I would say to you the thing that has struck
me the most, which I knew but has been enhanced,
is how important culture in businesses. And so I spend
a lot of time, and I will continue to spend time,
and I will do it in whatever I do next,
ensuring that the culture and the business is what you
(11:29):
want in order to achieve your plan and execute your results.
So I spend a lot of time with our people,
listening to them, listening to customers, ensuring that we represent
what we should do in terms of our purpose and
our values.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Is New Zealand a good place to do business?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It is? It can be difficult because of scale. We
like at times to try and do probably too many
things instead of saying here are the three or four
things that we're going to do incredibly well. But we
have the ability to move at speed, and size can
(12:12):
be an impediment and it can be an advantage. And
one of the things I try and do with their
New Zealand when I'm overseas and I'm meeting with the
big companies over there, and I'm not just talking Boeing
or air Bus, but you know, I was with open
Ai four weeks ago, Google Deep Mind. We're working on
things with them. Our cell position to them, Mike is
(12:34):
we're small, we can operate at speed. Give us an opportunity,
you can develop something with us, and then you can
go and sell it to the big guys and it works.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Good stuff. We'll get you before you finally, finally, little bit,
appreciate your time for Howls always, thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Make good to see you.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Greg.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Forum For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live
to news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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