June 17, 2025 • 6 mins
The Government is delivering an increased number of elective procedures to try to meet patient wait time targets.
More than 84% of cancer patients are starting treatment within 31 days – 1% more than last year.
Health Minister Simeon Brown told Mike Hosking they want that up to 90% by 2030, and are working to speed up treatments.
He says they've swiftly outsourced nine thousand 500 electives to the private sector in an effort to get Health New Zealand moving faster.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are we seeing positive movement in the old health system?
New numbers on the Target's New numbers on our target
show that in cancer treatment, eighty four point six percent
of patients are starting treatment within thirty one days now.
That's up from eighty three percent. Seventy four point two
percent are admitted, discharged or transferred within six hours at
the EDS. That is up from seventy point one percent.
So Somion Browns the Health Ministry, of course, and it's
(00:21):
back with us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good morning, Good morning, Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Are these numbers significant or just stats? I mean, what's
the difference in? I mean, what is eighty three to
eighty four point six mean?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, it's an improvement, and these are quarter by quarter
data points. This show's progress. We're committed to releasing this
information every three months so that the public can see
how well our health system is performing. But ultimately there
is still a long way to go. We want ninety
five percent of patients being seen or just an emergency
department within six hours, so there is a long way
(00:53):
to go. We want ninety five percent of cancer treatment
cancer patients being seen within within thirty one days as well,
So there's still work to do. But We're seeing progress
in the right direction and I'm going to continue that
focus as Minister of Health.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So on cancer, if you're seeing a one and a
half percent improvement per quarter, that is six per year,
so you're a few years off.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, the targets are to meet that by twenty thirty.
We had a significant reduction over the last six years.
The health system is turning these around. Will take time,
but the reality is my expectations is that Health New
Zealand does need to move faster on these That's why
we're doing the elective boost at the moment, which is
outsourcing electives to the private sector at pace. We've done
(01:42):
nine and a half thousand so far, because actually we
can't wait till then. We have to be impatient and
we have to focus on putting patients first and doing
everything we can to get these treatments done.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
We cover that on the program the other day. Are
you surprised about the angst around the private check?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh? Look, there's lots of noise from the unions, the
Labor Party, various voices and other media of course, who
just oppose anything which is about actually getting things done
for patients. I don't think a patient key is when
they're sitting on the operating table and looking up at
the ceiling and going, oh, my goodness, who owns the roof?
(02:21):
They're focused on getting their treatment done, and that is
my focus as Minister of Health is getting the treatments
done that patients need, and I will continue to be
have that focus as Minister of Health.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
The point they make that I think is fair. It
deprives surgical registrars of training, which is true, isn't it yep.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think that's a fair point, and that's where I've
asked howth New Zealand to work and have long term
agreements with these with these private hospitals and actually look
at including training opportunities in those agreements. When we do outsource,
we do need to make sure it's beneficial to both
public and private. We need to make sure that people
are getting seen quickly, but we also do need to
(02:56):
make sure we are retaining those training opportunities for the
next g generation of surgeons and specialists. That is critically
important and our vasked Health New Zealand to make sure
that's included as part.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Do you have any reason to believe that the private
sector wouldn't be interested in doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
All the feedback from the operators that I've spoken to
is that they have they have interest in that. There
are negotiations underway between Health New Zealand and those operators
around those points. Obviously a lot of detailed work through,
but look, at the end of the day, it's but
putting patients at the center to get things done.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Now. Also reading yesterday the Royal College Australasian College of Surgeons,
and they're not alone, but they argue, and I have
not been able to get to the bottom of it either.
They argue it is actually more expensive to do it
privately than it is publicly, and what the public system
needs is more funding. How do they square that circle
or are they simply making that.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
We need to be investing both in you know, we
need to invest ultimately and putting patients at the center,
and going we need things to get done. Look, the majority,
the vast majority of elective surgeries happen in the in
the in the public system. Ten percent happen in the
private system. But this is about ensuring we can get
surgeries done in a timely manner, and that will require outsourcing.
It's always happened. In fact, Chris Hipkins, when he was
(04:08):
Minister of Health back in twenty twenty, took a paper
to cabinet saying we need to use more of the
private system to get more done. So here they are
opposing what we're doing today. When he took a paper
up to cabinet in twenty twenty, shy.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I can't understand why everyone's objecting to it. So would
you argue because we had a private surgeon on the
other day who said it's cheaper to do it in
the private sector, do you have a clear answer? Is
it cheaper to do it in the private sector than
it is in the public sector.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It will depend in different parts of the country for
different surgeries ultimately, But the point here is if you
have long term agreements, you're able to get efficiencies and
that's where you're able to drive. At the moment. Health
New Zealand or in the past has done ad hoc
arrangements where they do short term agreements. Of course, it's
going to be more expensive if that's the approach you
do it. If you take a long term approach, you
can get efficiencies, better value for money and ultimately better
(04:54):
care for patients, which is my focus.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The other thing he said I thought was interesting and
I didn't know about. Is he claims if things look
like they might be going past four o'clock, it starts
to close down a bit. Is that true?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, look, there is heavily unionized contractoral arrange arrangements in
the public system, and so yes, you do end up
with in efficiencies throughout the system, and that those issues
need to be dealt with by Health New Zealand to
make sure that it is more efficient. But that's where again,
using the public system and the private system and putting
(05:25):
patients at the center is the answer.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
But how do you get around that? First of all,
why does it even exist? I mean to oh, this
is going to go to past four o'clock.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Let's those questions? Yeah, I mean, I suggest you put
those questions to the to the Senior Doctors Union when
they when they're next on your show, because ultimately, these
are these are union agreements which have been negotiated over
a long period of time which drive inefficiency and a
lack of productivity.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
With Health New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Though with Health New Zealand, I agree, and these are
issues that do need to be resolved as part of
those negotiations with the unions. But this is these these
these are not issues that are going to be resolved overnight,
and therefore we have to focus on putting patients first.
We have massive weightlifts we need to get through and
that's where I make no apology, no apology for using
(06:15):
the private sector to get patient seen.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
All right, appreciate your times always, Health Minister and Brown.
It's just wanting to find out that's true.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Are we seeing positive movement in the old health system?
New numbers on the Target's New numbers on our target
show that in cancer treatment, eighty four point six percent
of patients are starting treatment within thirty one days now.
That's up from eighty three percent. Seventy four point two
percent are admitted, discharged or transferred within six hours at
the EDS. That is up from seventy point one percent.
So Somion Browns the Health Ministry, of course, and it's
(00:21):
back with us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good morning, Good morning, Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Are these numbers significant or just stats? I mean, what's
the difference in? I mean, what is eighty three to
eighty four point six mean?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, it's an improvement, and these are quarter by quarter
data points. This show's progress. We're committed to releasing this
information every three months so that the public can see
how well our health system is performing. But ultimately there
is still a long way to go. We want ninety
five percent of patients being seen or just an emergency
department within six hours, so there is a long way
(00:53):
to go. We want ninety five percent of cancer treatment
cancer patients being seen within within thirty one days as well,
So there's still work to do. But We're seeing progress
in the right direction and I'm going to continue that
focus as Minister of Health.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So on cancer, if you're seeing a one and a
half percent improvement per quarter, that is six per year,
so you're a few years off.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, the targets are to meet that by twenty thirty.
We had a significant reduction over the last six years.
The health system is turning these around. Will take time,
but the reality is my expectations is that Health New
Zealand does need to move faster on these That's why
we're doing the elective boost at the moment, which is
outsourcing electives to the private sector at pace. We've done
(01:42):
nine and a half thousand so far, because actually we
can't wait till then. We have to be impatient and
we have to focus on putting patients first and doing
everything we can to get these treatments done.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
We cover that on the program the other day. Are
you surprised about the angst around the private check?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh? Look, there's lots of noise from the unions, the
Labor Party, various voices and other media of course, who
just oppose anything which is about actually getting things done
for patients. I don't think a patient key is when
they're sitting on the operating table and looking up at
the ceiling and going, oh, my goodness, who owns the roof?
(02:21):
They're focused on getting their treatment done, and that is
my focus as Minister of Health is getting the treatments
done that patients need, and I will continue to be
have that focus as Minister of Health.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
The point they make that I think is fair. It
deprives surgical registrars of training, which is true, isn't it yep.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think that's a fair point, and that's where I've
asked howth New Zealand to work and have long term
agreements with these with these private hospitals and actually look
at including training opportunities in those agreements. When we do outsource,
we do need to make sure it's beneficial to both
public and private. We need to make sure that people
are getting seen quickly, but we also do need to
(02:56):
make sure we are retaining those training opportunities for the
next g generation of surgeons and specialists. That is critically
important and our vasked Health New Zealand to make sure
that's included as part.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Do you have any reason to believe that the private
sector wouldn't be interested in doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
All the feedback from the operators that I've spoken to
is that they have they have interest in that. There
are negotiations underway between Health New Zealand and those operators
around those points. Obviously a lot of detailed work through,
but look, at the end of the day, it's but
putting patients at the center to get things done.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Now. Also reading yesterday the Royal College Australasian College of Surgeons,
and they're not alone, but they argue, and I have
not been able to get to the bottom of it either.
They argue it is actually more expensive to do it
privately than it is publicly, and what the public system
needs is more funding. How do they square that circle
or are they simply making that.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
We need to be investing both in you know, we
need to invest ultimately and putting patients at the center,
and going we need things to get done. Look, the majority,
the vast majority of elective surgeries happen in the in
the in the public system. Ten percent happen in the
private system. But this is about ensuring we can get
surgeries done in a timely manner, and that will require outsourcing.
It's always happened. In fact, Chris Hipkins, when he was
(04:08):
Minister of Health back in twenty twenty, took a paper
to cabinet saying we need to use more of the
private system to get more done. So here they are
opposing what we're doing today. When he took a paper
up to cabinet in twenty twenty, shy.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I can't understand why everyone's objecting to it. So would
you argue because we had a private surgeon on the
other day who said it's cheaper to do it in
the private sector, do you have a clear answer? Is
it cheaper to do it in the private sector than
it is in the public sector.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It will depend in different parts of the country for
different surgeries ultimately, But the point here is if you
have long term agreements, you're able to get efficiencies and
that's where you're able to drive. At the moment. Health
New Zealand or in the past has done ad hoc
arrangements where they do short term agreements. Of course, it's
going to be more expensive if that's the approach you
do it. If you take a long term approach, you
can get efficiencies, better value for money and ultimately better
(04:54):
care for patients, which is my focus.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The other thing he said I thought was interesting and
I didn't know about. Is he claims if things look
like they might be going past four o'clock, it starts
to close down a bit. Is that true?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, look, there is heavily unionized contractoral arrange arrangements in
the public system, and so yes, you do end up
with in efficiencies throughout the system, and that those issues
need to be dealt with by Health New Zealand to
make sure that it is more efficient. But that's where again,
using the public system and the private system and putting
(05:25):
patients at the center is the answer.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
But how do you get around that? First of all,
why does it even exist? I mean to oh, this
is going to go to past four o'clock.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Let's those questions? Yeah, I mean, I suggest you put
those questions to the to the Senior Doctors Union when
they when they're next on your show, because ultimately, these
are these are union agreements which have been negotiated over
a long period of time which drive inefficiency and a
lack of productivity.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
With Health New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Though with Health New Zealand, I agree, and these are
issues that do need to be resolved as part of
those negotiations with the unions. But this is these these
these are not issues that are going to be resolved overnight,
and therefore we have to focus on putting patients first.
We have massive weightlifts we need to get through and
that's where I make no apology, no apology for using
(06:15):
the private sector to get patient seen.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
All right, appreciate your times always, Health Minister and Brown.
It's just wanting to find out that's true.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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