June 23, 2025 • 11 mins
Scott Robertson has called up five new faces for his first All Blacks class of 2025, with his 35-man squad for next month’s series against France named.
All Blacks regulars Dalton Papali'i, Ethan Blackadder and David Havili have been left out of the squad instead.
The trio’s exclusion comes with the inclusion of Ollie Norris, Brodie McAlister, Fabian Holland, Timoci Tavatavanawai, and Du'Plessis Kirifi.
Coach Scott Robertson says it wasn't easy to leave out players like Papali'i, Blackadder, and Havili.
He told Mike Hosking that you need to give opportunities to players over this period of time and get to know what they’re going to be like in action.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the first all Black squad for twenty five is out.
The season starts with the French, of course, who arrive shortly.
We'll take on the usual suspects of Australia, Argentina, South Africa,
then rape the year in Europe against Scotland, England, Ireland
and Wales. Coach Scott Robertson is back with the Scott
Good morning to.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You, yeah, good morning White, good to Chet again.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And you too, and I've missed you, which brings me
to my non facetious first question. Literally between the link
end of last year, I assume you're write a report
and say here's how it all went as far as
I'm concerned. You have a few meetings about that. What
do you do between then and now?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
You did a lot of planning fish you did with
a recovery from the India tour. You know you're hundred
and twenty days away to weekin it with the family
and get your body clock right, and then you start
watching for the again. The game changes pretty quickly. Not
watching super you're watching the USC, the Top fourteen, the
French teams and how they play. What's the rest stuff going?
(00:56):
Then you go up into World rugby and what they're
doing with the laws for the year. And then I'll
get around the country I see as million people as
I can that love again rugby and connect with him
how much.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I don't know what the word is. Influence do you
have on coaches and people along the way before yesterday's announcement?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Influence every super team just to put your own team,
they get to play how they want to play. Let's
say progative that they've got their their expert coaches, but
we deal through their stuff or the coach themselves that
heat and we'll talk about each one of our players,
coaches that have one of their players in the area
and talk about specific you know, is at run, kick
(01:37):
on the edge, we need to work on the hooker throwers.
You see what we see and then talk about what
their etras are going to be so how they can
get better and improve. So that's what you do. But
you let them go and pay how they're going to play.
But deal with individuals.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Do you get pushed back from coaches who see things
differently to you?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, there's always discussions you never got through, is mate.
There's there's there's things that people say that just see
it differently. You know, fine, that's all part of it.
You just have professional conversations are not personal. You get
on with it when you don't, and you need to
sometimes stand your ground and sometimes you need to understand it.
(02:16):
You know it's set on, set call, and then get
on with it.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
From your observation of all this watching you've been doing,
if you were unlimited in the number of people you're
able to name yesterday, how much depth have we got
in this country? How big could a squad be of
people who are genuine all blacks?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So look, you need to fall deep, over four deep
as all backs in every position over a four year
period to know that you're going to be in a
position that when you name your normal team, someone's going
to get a bang. Like the weekend that there was
a Test match, the intensity, the context, the Super Final.
(02:57):
You know we had a lot of bangs out of that.
There's a lot of skin is going on. So who's
next of us? Not then you name the team and
then you name the next one that's coming in on
a proviso, and then you're always doing what's doing You
know it's rained in Auckland. Someone's going to tight caf
and and all of a sudden, who's next? So you're
still going four deep? So what's that? You know for
four fifteens. You know you're starting to get up there,
(03:18):
aren't you. Yeah, there's succeed yet. Yeah we done them
the college and it's uh, it's and you so you
so you start to look at it like that, and
you need to give opportunities and players over this period
of time get to know what they're going to be.
Like in some guys come to the environment and just
(03:39):
got a wolf for as year, like Passi TOSSI was
just a credible you know, pedl Aco. Those guys just
stepped up beautifully. So you only find out by giving
them the game you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I got to say it before I forget the game
on the weekend, the Crusaders, rob Any the Redemption. I mean,
what a fantastic story please.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
For them, great story, great human story, great supporting story.
The other a nice team, a lot of care in
there and found a way. So yeah, look I'm really
pleased for rob You know, we go way back again
studying an opportunity back in two thousand and eight, came
in and gave me a couple of jobs to do.
We're happily took and starve me on the path.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Your personal expectation on yourself for your second season, what
is it?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
These probably are things on and off the field. So personally,
just to make sure the connection piece are really clear
about a purpose, like who we're serving, So I'll drive that,
you know, like I'll beck myself on our group's having
a really common three. But who do who did engine why?
And obviously we've got a beautiful country here that we
do that for. So there's the first run and then
(04:51):
on fielders to co team. It's really fast. We create
a lot being bying fast last year, Mike, but we
didn't finish enough. You know, we little of stats and
rold rugby last year, but it didn't convert to the scoreboard.
And now now it's our chimes to convert what we create.
That's exciting part.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Do you feel you will be a better coach this
season than last season, notwithstanding all the coaching experience you've
you brought to the game in the first place from
a different level.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, oh yeah, Look, this doesn't matter what you do.
You need to improve, you know, you move forward and
how do you make those improvements? And you do It
doesn't matter whereabouts in your job, like this game moves
really quickly, or a professional sports says, or the world
does really doesn't it, Like you know, we use AI
lucky bron House and you've got to be a step ahead.
And but like I personally, like I understand how it works,
what really matters and what doesn't matter too, Like what
(05:45):
can I keep my focus on my jobs? Take away
a lot of distractions so people be in minds so
they can play. Yeah, I know now that the delay
of it and how it works and to deal with
refreeze and and people in the ellis and so it'll
be better for that for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Good stuff do you have, Scott? I'm assuming others and
the management of the All Blacks to handle this more.
I may be wrong and correct me if I mean
I am. But given the union state of finances and
the fact they're still losing money, do you have everything
you need? Are there any fiscal constraints on what you
need to do?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Mindful of it. But if his priority as performed the
money would It's a bit different when we don't perform
as well. So focus on it and I look at
they've been great that they you know, we talk and
obviously where can we could be better at and trim
But essentially they give you all their cords opportunities perform,
which is the ultimately from the all becks, and that's
(06:42):
what they need and we focus on.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Okay, I read something the other day and I don't
know why I didn't know it, but the Lions when
they got named, it's an old fashioned system. Nobody knows
the thing. It's simply read out in the radio. And
when you hear your name for the first time, you
hear your name for the first time. Is there something
in that?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah? If we did put both say probably three two
two of the players that yesterday and I'll bring the
other cup other three out of the size to come up.
But yeah, it's pretty cool, isn't it. I reckon it's pretty.
It's a nice touch. What look at it next year?
Come onto our sponsorship teammate commercial, you reckon?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Not a bad idea. Observations are three sixty and the
Super Rugby World Competition thing. If either of them get
off the ground, are they good or not? For the game?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah? I think anything in the game that promotes us
and it's globally and it gets international sponsors and exposes
our players to other competitions. It's good. It's going to
keep players in our game here in New Zealand for longer.
It's great. You look at Jordan what a great way
(07:55):
to see the world play great rugby. You know, played
a lot of golf and rugby. He's come back good,
good front. Now what does that look like for us?
So they are eighty one, You've got to get put
more detail. That's a different beast in itself. But the
SUPERABI one and the finals and the connection piece we
can connect the clubs together would be a great occasion.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Not too much rugby, it's all balanced out.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's not more rugby. It's just at the end of
their season. So you can't put any more weeks in
the old calendar, so you know, you just go to
finals earlier. You know that the all back tests and
all the international tests in sets, so that you think
that goes around that. It's key.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So you mentioned it, you mentioned Jordy. What about Artie
in twenty six and I mean you look at what
he did for Moana as like in a team game,
it is so rare to see an individual stand out
to that extent. Next stop Japan and how do you
handle all of that or is that just the way
it is.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I think it's the way it is. He's a pioneer.
You know, we had these conversations eighteen months ago about
what you wanted to do and on to which you
know it's pretty much the first day on the job
and you know what do you think, coach? And one
of my first job is to support him so he
can perform at his best and do watch right for
his family and to make sure it's the best for
(09:13):
New Zealand rugby. And that's what we got to, you know,
like he transformed himself to he paid him each week
in a high purpose, great to watch and then he
also gets to dance to go into Japan. It was
important for him to do that. So he's earned it.
Men like he, you know, he's been for a long
period of time in New Zealand and it's quite interesting.
(09:34):
There's different ways to do it, you know, nickon Island
and I'm just a stating example where I'm not saying
this is for the government, but you know a lot
of our players and then the Irish careers get text
break for staying if they show long service, you know,
over ten years.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, it's pretty special. Like a lot of these guys
play right to the depth of their squad, the handing
down of all the knowledge, and it's a sign of
loyalty in a lot of guys stay in you know,
only from French plants in Japan and hints that golden
era of Ireland. You know, they're coming to the end
of their league, but they do a great job on retaining.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well that's interesting, Hey, but what's your assessment of the
people we're going to play? The French they say they're
a bit short on talent, the Australians. Is the going
Is it going to be any different from previous occasions?
Is anyone materially changed?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It's the French, Mike, you know, like this is when
they're dangerous, you know, like even underestimates them and they
come over and look they're going to be bigger and
they're going to be French. That's what you can't definitely
how to pick your score. So we're not guessing, you
know that whoever turns out, you know, we'll focus majority
on ourselves and then we know that, you know, we
know that way they play, it's just who's going to
(10:50):
be doing it and just a couple of strengths of
their players and then we just get on with it
and respect them with a great preparation. But this when
they're dangerous, you know. A blur said s like some
young fives will take your opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Fantastic. It must be exciting to be where you are
right now, because I mean, I know you're busy during
the year and all of that stuff, but to be right,
we're set. There's a ball being kicked and there's some
scores to be had. That's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, that's exciting, mate. I appreciate that. I'm looking forward
to the country and together we walk to your morrow.
So here we go again.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Good on, we'll catch up during the season, I'm sure.
Scott Robinson the All Blacks Coat. For more from the
Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be
from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
So the first all Black squad for twenty five is out.
The season starts with the French, of course, who arrive shortly.
We'll take on the usual suspects of Australia, Argentina, South Africa,
then rape the year in Europe against Scotland, England, Ireland
and Wales. Coach Scott Robertson is back with the Scott
Good morning to.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You, yeah, good morning White, good to Chet again.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And you too, and I've missed you, which brings me
to my non facetious first question. Literally between the link
end of last year, I assume you're write a report
and say here's how it all went as far as
I'm concerned. You have a few meetings about that. What
do you do between then and now?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
You did a lot of planning fish you did with
a recovery from the India tour. You know you're hundred
and twenty days away to weekin it with the family
and get your body clock right, and then you start
watching for the again. The game changes pretty quickly. Not
watching super you're watching the USC, the Top fourteen, the
French teams and how they play. What's the rest stuff going?
(00:56):
Then you go up into World rugby and what they're
doing with the laws for the year. And then I'll
get around the country I see as million people as
I can that love again rugby and connect with him
how much.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I don't know what the word is. Influence do you
have on coaches and people along the way before yesterday's announcement?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Influence every super team just to put your own team,
they get to play how they want to play. Let's
say progative that they've got their their expert coaches, but
we deal through their stuff or the coach themselves that
heat and we'll talk about each one of our players,
coaches that have one of their players in the area
and talk about specific you know, is at run, kick
(01:37):
on the edge, we need to work on the hooker throwers.
You see what we see and then talk about what
their etras are going to be so how they can
get better and improve. So that's what you do. But
you let them go and pay how they're going to play.
But deal with individuals.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Do you get pushed back from coaches who see things
differently to you?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, there's always discussions you never got through, is mate.
There's there's there's things that people say that just see
it differently. You know, fine, that's all part of it.
You just have professional conversations are not personal. You get
on with it when you don't, and you need to
sometimes stand your ground and sometimes you need to understand it.
(02:16):
You know it's set on, set call, and then get
on with it.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
From your observation of all this watching you've been doing,
if you were unlimited in the number of people you're
able to name yesterday, how much depth have we got
in this country? How big could a squad be of
people who are genuine all blacks?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So look, you need to fall deep, over four deep
as all backs in every position over a four year
period to know that you're going to be in a
position that when you name your normal team, someone's going
to get a bang. Like the weekend that there was
a Test match, the intensity, the context, the Super Final.
(02:57):
You know we had a lot of bangs out of that.
There's a lot of skin is going on. So who's
next of us? Not then you name the team and
then you name the next one that's coming in on
a proviso, and then you're always doing what's doing You
know it's rained in Auckland. Someone's going to tight caf
and and all of a sudden, who's next? So you're
still going four deep? So what's that? You know for
four fifteens. You know you're starting to get up there,
(03:18):
aren't you. Yeah, there's succeed yet. Yeah we done them
the college and it's uh, it's and you so you
so you start to look at it like that, and
you need to give opportunities and players over this period
of time get to know what they're going to be.
Like in some guys come to the environment and just
(03:39):
got a wolf for as year, like Passi TOSSI was
just a credible you know, pedl Aco. Those guys just
stepped up beautifully. So you only find out by giving
them the game you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I got to say it before I forget the game
on the weekend, the Crusaders, rob Any the Redemption. I mean,
what a fantastic story please.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
For them, great story, great human story, great supporting story.
The other a nice team, a lot of care in
there and found a way. So yeah, look I'm really
pleased for rob You know, we go way back again
studying an opportunity back in two thousand and eight, came
in and gave me a couple of jobs to do.
We're happily took and starve me on the path.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Your personal expectation on yourself for your second season, what
is it?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
These probably are things on and off the field. So personally,
just to make sure the connection piece are really clear
about a purpose, like who we're serving, So I'll drive that,
you know, like I'll beck myself on our group's having
a really common three. But who do who did engine why?
And obviously we've got a beautiful country here that we
do that for. So there's the first run and then
(04:51):
on fielders to co team. It's really fast. We create
a lot being bying fast last year, Mike, but we
didn't finish enough. You know, we little of stats and
rold rugby last year, but it didn't convert to the scoreboard.
And now now it's our chimes to convert what we create.
That's exciting part.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Do you feel you will be a better coach this
season than last season, notwithstanding all the coaching experience you've
you brought to the game in the first place from
a different level.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, oh yeah, Look, this doesn't matter what you do.
You need to improve, you know, you move forward and
how do you make those improvements? And you do It
doesn't matter whereabouts in your job, like this game moves
really quickly, or a professional sports says, or the world
does really doesn't it, Like you know, we use AI
lucky bron House and you've got to be a step ahead.
And but like I personally, like I understand how it works,
what really matters and what doesn't matter too, Like what
(05:45):
can I keep my focus on my jobs? Take away
a lot of distractions so people be in minds so
they can play. Yeah, I know now that the delay
of it and how it works and to deal with
refreeze and and people in the ellis and so it'll
be better for that for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Good stuff do you have, Scott? I'm assuming others and
the management of the All Blacks to handle this more.
I may be wrong and correct me if I mean
I am. But given the union state of finances and
the fact they're still losing money, do you have everything
you need? Are there any fiscal constraints on what you
need to do?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Mindful of it. But if his priority as performed the
money would It's a bit different when we don't perform
as well. So focus on it and I look at
they've been great that they you know, we talk and
obviously where can we could be better at and trim
But essentially they give you all their cords opportunities perform,
which is the ultimately from the all becks, and that's
(06:42):
what they need and we focus on.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Okay, I read something the other day and I don't
know why I didn't know it, but the Lions when
they got named, it's an old fashioned system. Nobody knows
the thing. It's simply read out in the radio. And
when you hear your name for the first time, you
hear your name for the first time. Is there something
in that?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah? If we did put both say probably three two
two of the players that yesterday and I'll bring the
other cup other three out of the size to come up.
But yeah, it's pretty cool, isn't it. I reckon it's pretty.
It's a nice touch. What look at it next year?
Come onto our sponsorship teammate commercial, you reckon?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Not a bad idea. Observations are three sixty and the
Super Rugby World Competition thing. If either of them get
off the ground, are they good or not? For the game?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah? I think anything in the game that promotes us
and it's globally and it gets international sponsors and exposes
our players to other competitions. It's good. It's going to
keep players in our game here in New Zealand for longer.
It's great. You look at Jordan what a great way
(07:55):
to see the world play great rugby. You know, played
a lot of golf and rugby. He's come back good,
good front. Now what does that look like for us?
So they are eighty one, You've got to get put
more detail. That's a different beast in itself. But the
SUPERABI one and the finals and the connection piece we
can connect the clubs together would be a great occasion.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Not too much rugby, it's all balanced out.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's not more rugby. It's just at the end of
their season. So you can't put any more weeks in
the old calendar, so you know, you just go to
finals earlier. You know that the all back tests and
all the international tests in sets, so that you think
that goes around that. It's key.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So you mentioned it, you mentioned Jordy. What about Artie
in twenty six and I mean you look at what
he did for Moana as like in a team game,
it is so rare to see an individual stand out
to that extent. Next stop Japan and how do you
handle all of that or is that just the way
it is.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I think it's the way it is. He's a pioneer.
You know, we had these conversations eighteen months ago about
what you wanted to do and on to which you
know it's pretty much the first day on the job
and you know what do you think, coach? And one
of my first job is to support him so he
can perform at his best and do watch right for
his family and to make sure it's the best for
(09:13):
New Zealand rugby. And that's what we got to, you know,
like he transformed himself to he paid him each week
in a high purpose, great to watch and then he
also gets to dance to go into Japan. It was
important for him to do that. So he's earned it.
Men like he, you know, he's been for a long
period of time in New Zealand and it's quite interesting.
(09:34):
There's different ways to do it, you know, nickon Island
and I'm just a stating example where I'm not saying
this is for the government, but you know a lot
of our players and then the Irish careers get text
break for staying if they show long service, you know,
over ten years.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, it's pretty special. Like a lot of these guys
play right to the depth of their squad, the handing
down of all the knowledge, and it's a sign of
loyalty in a lot of guys stay in you know,
only from French plants in Japan and hints that golden
era of Ireland. You know, they're coming to the end
of their league, but they do a great job on retaining.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well that's interesting, Hey, but what's your assessment of the
people we're going to play? The French they say they're
a bit short on talent, the Australians. Is the going
Is it going to be any different from previous occasions?
Is anyone materially changed?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It's the French, Mike, you know, like this is when
they're dangerous, you know, like even underestimates them and they
come over and look they're going to be bigger and
they're going to be French. That's what you can't definitely
how to pick your score. So we're not guessing, you
know that whoever turns out, you know, we'll focus majority
on ourselves and then we know that, you know, we
know that way they play, it's just who's going to
(10:50):
be doing it and just a couple of strengths of
their players and then we just get on with it
and respect them with a great preparation. But this when
they're dangerous, you know. A blur said s like some
young fives will take your opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Fantastic. It must be exciting to be where you are
right now, because I mean, I know you're busy during
the year and all of that stuff, but to be right,
we're set. There's a ball being kicked and there's some
scores to be had. That's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, that's exciting, mate. I appreciate that. I'm looking forward
to the country and together we walk to your morrow.
So here we go again.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Good on, we'll catch up during the season, I'm sure.
Scott Robinson the All Blacks Coat. For more from the
Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be
from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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