Paul Goldsmith: Treaty Negotiations Minister on the Ngāpuhi settlement, NZ First's Bill

The Treaty Negotiations Minister admits people are losing patience on a Ngāpuhi settlement, but says they want it to last. 

New Zealand First is launching a Bill, proposing a one-and-done treaty settlement for the largest iwi, rather than multiple hapu settlements. 

Paul Goldsmith says that although he sympathises with the desire for a faster resolution, if you want an enduring settlement, you need people to be prepared to settle. 

He told Mike Hosking that the settlement has to have the support of around 200,000 to 300,000 people, which has been the challenge in the past. 

Goldsmith says that they have a good plan now, and they’re making good progress on the work that’s currently underway. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Paul Goldsmith wants a word Shane Jones, had his bill
coming or has his bill coming to falls NAPOOI into
a one stop settlement after years of wrangling that has
gone nowhere. Upon hearing Shane's argument, I wandered out loud
the other day on the program where a Minister Goldsmith
was a bit of sleep at the wheel. So right
of reply time, really, treaty, Minister Paul Goldsmith is with us.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good morning, good morning mate.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
So are you deeply offended at me or just moderately mythed?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Just modertorly moderately mythed. I'm probably fool hardly coming and
arguing the point. But all I wanted to say was that,
you know, when I think about the settlements, there are
two things in mind. One is we've been doing this
for thirty years as a country and everybody is losing
their patience. They want the whole settlement process finished. But
at the same time we want it to work, and

(00:46):
so we want it to be enduring and a full
and final settlement. And that's why you know, you can't
just impose it and rush it next week. But you've
got to do the job properly and make it work.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
So is what Shane is doing or a solution.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, well, his suggestion is just, you know, just blast
it out at high speed. And while I'm very sympathetic
with that, obviously, to have an enduring settlement, you've got
to have people being prepared and wanting to settle. And
so the real challenge that we've had over a long
period of time is getting the what's called the mandate

(01:23):
right so that the people who do the settlement have
got the support of the two hundred three hundred thousand puy.
That's been the challenge in the past, and that's what
we're working our way through. We do have a plan.
I've got a couple of excellent negotiators, we're working. We're
making good progress actually on that mandate work that's going underway,
and you know, I'd be very I'm going to give

(01:44):
it my very best shot. If we can pull it
off in the next two or three years, that would
be great. But I'm not going to sort of put
a tight time frame on it because there's been plenty
of ministers in the past who have come along and
done that and have had IgG all over their faces.
Because you can't force something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
What appeop, Well exactly, But what a to me was
the Bolder days momentarily, if you remember them, they talked
to deadlines. They go, if you don't want to deal,
no problem, file your papers, then we'll have a deadline.
And if we can't get a deal, that's life. And
aren't we at that stage? I mean when you say
two or three years, how many years that's going on for?
How many millions of dollars more do we need to spend?

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well? Yes, well, I mean the whole treaty settlement process
started in the mid nineties, so it's been thirty years.
It's not been thirty years with Napui, but it's been
a long process. And so yes, the point is we're
all very impatient. We want to get things done, and
there will come a time when you do have to say, well,
come on now, it's your chance. Now will never say that, Well,
we're not far from that point, but.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
You know, I mean you just said we're two or
three years from it.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, well, in the context of thirty years, yes, that's
that's fast.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well it should have been years. Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, well, but the point is what we're doing as
a country is kind of globally unique. And we've made
a huge effort as a as a country over a
very long time, about two thirds to three quarters of
the way through the process, and people will rightly say, well, boy,
this is taking a long time. But having done all that,
let's make sure that when we finally get to the

(03:10):
end of the Pooie settlement that it actually sticks and
it works. And so that's what my real focus is on.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay, go well, Paul Goldsmith, Minister be twe negotiations. So
question for Friday morning, who's right him? Will Shane Jones
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